← Crime & Justice with Donna Rotunno
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. This is crime and justice. I'm Donna Rotuno. In 2016, two Miami Dade narcotics officers made history with a record breaking $22 million seizure. In 2026, Hollywood turned them into murderous, corrupt thieves for a Netflix blockbuster.
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B
Nothing happened that you've seen the movie. There was no shooting, there was no negotiation with gang members. But when you start off the movie by saying, this is based on real events, and now put the disclaimer to the very end. The problem that you have, Donna, is everybody believes it's real, Right?
- [00:40]
A
Today we sit down with Ignacio Alvarez, the attorney suing Matt Damon and Ben Affleck's production company to save his client's reputation. Remember, if you're enjoying the podcast, make sure to hit follow and make sure you never miss an episode. I'm thrilled to have you and I'm really looking forward to this conversation because I think it's really interesting when we talk about reputation, what happens to people when their reputation could be brought into question and how it affects them moving forward and truly what the remedy can be when your name is out there and, you know, obviously there's question marks put put around it. And so in this situation, just to give the viewers a little bit of background, Matt Damon and Ben Affleck did a movie called the Rip and it's on streaming now, and it has received hundreds of millions of downloads, I believe, in a very short period of time. And in the movie, they play these two police officers, and the story is based on true events, but it's not a true story or a documentary, but it is based on real life events. And they play two police officer. And in the movie, the police officers actually do very criminal things and, and, you know, break the law. And that wasn't the fact in the real life story about this. So they obviously took a lot of creative license with it. So, Ignacio, tell me a little bit about what brought all of this to your client's attention, how it came to be where a lawsuit was actually filed. And let's walk through what's, what's really going on here.
- [02:21]
B
So, Donna, the issue here is, and it starts from the very beginning, you have an individual that told the story to these producers, a story where he's been all over radio and TV saying that he was the lead investigator, he was there counting the cash, and told a story of a real life event that he wasn't present, it wasn't true what he was stating. And he's all over TV and radio saying it was him when he wasn't even in the unit.
- [02:49]
A
Wow, you have.
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B
What you have here is the largest seizure in Miami Dade county history. It was over $22 million. When it came down from the hard work of these officers working their foremix, working the streets to get these this season, nothing happened that you see in the movie. There was no shooting. There was no negotiation with gang members and denounce. We're in the city of Hylia. There's no corruption, highly a police officer. There was no captain from the Narcotics bureau killed. There was no DEA even killed. But when you start off the movie by saying this is based on real event and not put the disclaimer to the very end that I had to pause it after all the credits, after everybody's gone from the theater, after the TV is off the very last screen, after the credits, I had to pause it, put on my reading glasses and read a. However disclaimer on the film. So the problem that you have, Donna, is everybody believes it's real, right? Everybody believes because of the perception of Miami, the Miami cop, that this actually occurred.
- [03:53]
A
So talk to me about the lawsuit that you filed. And I know that your background, you are an attorney now, but you were in law enforcement for 25 years. And so you. You have an understanding of both sides of this, which I always love. I'm the granddaughter of a Chicago police officer, and I always love when the two worlds make mesh together because they're. They're very important and they work well together. So talk to me about how your experience, not only as a police officer, but now as a lawyer makes you a very unique person to file this lawsuit. And tell me a little bit about the lawsuit.
- [04:24]
B
I think you'll have a lot of police officers, attorneys in this world. You have one, a Fox, who I highly respect, but there's not many of us. I was a cop for 25 years. I retired as a major with a Miami danger sheriff's office. And I was in charge of Special victims with my last assignment. What bothers me about this movie and the movie industry as a whole is that back when we grew up, every TV show, every movie you saw, everything was about good. The good things they did back then. But then, everything you see on the movies, everything you see on TV shows often portrayed as corrupt, as bad, as dirty, because that's what sells.
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A
You're right.
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B
The only positive TV show I see out there is a FBI that solves the world problem. Every single show shoots people. Every single show. And safety for every single show, which if you have any of those three incidents occurring in your 25 year career. One time. It was an exciting career. So unrealistic. So what bothers me is when I was in senior executive in the sheriff's office, it was hard to recruit people because people wanted to be an FBI agent. People wanted to be in these Alphabet squads that call Alphabet squads in the federal government because everything is in nature. Nobody wanted to be a street cop. And for my 25 years, I got to tell you, I've loved every second of it. And I respect everybody out there working the streets every single day to make their way safer.
- [05:58]
A
Well, I know you're referring to my good friend Paul Morrow at Fox and Paul and I are on a show together on Fox Nation. And he is just fabulous and a wealth of information and we have a lot of fun together. So he's definitely a great resource as well. And when we talk about this lawsuit that you filed, talk to me about the causes of action and who are the actual parties in this lawsuit so our listeners understand who is suing, who is being sued and what the causes of action are.
- [06:29]
B
So we have three. We're starting off with defamation by implication. Then you have defamation per se, and then you have intentional inflict or emotional distress. But the main account is defamation by implication. When you look at this movie, let's put aside that they tell everybody in big font that it's based on real life events. You have all the basic elements of what really happened. This happened in the town of Miami Lakes, which is right next to the city of Hylia. This was done by Miami Dade Sheriff's office. They were in Miami Dade Sheriff's uniform. This was done by the Narcotics Bureau. They identified themselves as Narcotics Bureau. They found a Home Depot bucket. $1 million a bucket, exactly like the way it was in the movie. They found it inside a wall inside the top part of the house. Exactly like what it was movie. So when people see this, they see the lead detective, which was Ben Affleck, and then you see the supervisor in the scene, which was, no, I forgot his name, Matt Damon. Those are my clients. Jason was the supervisor on the scene. Jonathan was the lead investigator. And these are the guys that put together this case. So now they walk around and they're asked, hey, you put your kids through private school. How many buckets was that? Hey, you just bought a boat. How many buckets was that? It's not that they work a lot of hours. They work overtime. They work off duty so they can provide their family the best possible line. What it is is how many bucks does that cost you. And now they. They have this shadow over themselves, over their. The way that they operate. They had a standard train a person, call them and say, is this real? Did you guys actually do this?
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A
Wow.
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B
They're going to have this cloud over them just because the implication of the movie itself. And I think you mentioned earlier, Donna, you were attorney as well. When you, when you deal with information, the essence in the movie, what. What do they need people to. Is it hatred of the person? I can tell you I've gotten a lot of hate mail. I can tell you I've gotten a lot of social media hate stuff based on my representation of cop. But I represent cops all the time because that's who I am. And I don't have a problem with that. And I'm always going to stand up for cops. But how about the trust? People are not trusting my clients, the stationary call itself, or me driving to work and putting on the radio. They. Police are saying, I thought this movie was real. I can't believe now they're coming out and say it wasn't real. Let me ask you, it's a distrust of cop.
- [09:10]
A
Sure, of course. And. And we've seen that, right? I mean, when I grew up, everybody was respectful of police. Police were, like you said, looked at as the good guys. And then there's been this unbelievable shift where we have vilified police and police. I mean, nobody wants the job. Do you blame them? I mean, you have, especially in. In big liberal cities, you have governors and mayors that don't allow them to act. And so it's just. It's a. It's a mess. So I agree police are being vilified for many reasons in our culture right now. But what I want to talk about is, so are Matt Damon and Ben Affleck named individually as well as the company that they have started that produced and directed this movie?
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B
No, it's my understanding they own the production company. We're still just a production company who bought the story and produced the film. We're not doing Netflix. We're not doing them individually, just the production.
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A
How about the person who sold the story? Because isn't there a question as to what information he gave them in order to make this movie?
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B
We didn't do him for the simple reason that the production company had done their due diligence to verify that the story was false. They paid this individual a lot of money. They came down here. The two actors came down here. They rode with Miami Dade Police Department. They had four consultants who were Miami Dade Police officer. I'm sorry. Miami Dade Sheriff's office. He just converted from a police department to a sheriff's office. They had four consultants and part of the sheriff's office present for the movie. All they had to do was basic due diligence to realize they can't tell them the storyline. And that wasn't there. They never counted the money. It wasn't there for them.
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A
I was just going to say, I mean, police reports from the actual circumstance would probably answer the question as to what was inventoried and what was found. And so that would be pretty simple.
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B
Correct.
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A
So what are. What are the defenses to this? Because my guess is that the production company is going to say, you know, we did not say that it is a true story. We said it's based on a true story. And then, you know, as you said later on, they put in the way below the credits that this is a. You know, these names have been changed and it's. It's. These are not true events. So what do you think a is the remedy? So if they were to come forward and say, look, we will make certain changes, what would be the remedy to put your clients in a position where they're not receiving phone calls from state's attorneys, where they're not being asked how they put their kids through private school? What would be the remedy to. To change the circumstance they find themselves in now?
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B
I think the remedy is twofold. Number one is doing a statement so people can be clarified. This is not real life. This is not a true portrayal of my clients. This is not a true portrayal of the city of Hialeah and the mayor of the city. Hale, is extremely upset with this movie. This is not a portrayal of what happened. That's number one. And number two, they paid for stories from someone who. It wasn't his story to tell. They could have contacted my client, reached out to my client, pay my clients for that story, and let them tell what really happened on the scene.
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A
And no one was ever. They were never contacted prior to the making of this movie.
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B
Never.
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A
You know, it's really interesting because normally when actors are going to play individuals and whether they're basing the character on true events or not, if there is somebody out there that they can base their performance on, normally they want to meet the people that they are portraying. So it's interesting that nobody reached out to your clients to say, hey, look, we're making this movie. We know you are a part of this. Now, do you think that's because the person who sold the story Never told the production company who the real people were.
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B
I think that. Go online and Google the thing. You go see TV interviews and radio interviews where he's out there saying it was his case, he signed the money, he was on the scene, he created everything clearly the production company without doing any due diligence, body and ran with it.
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A
Yeah, that's. That's really astounding when you think about the fact that you're going to make a movie that's based on true events, that you wouldn't do any type of vetting of the. And again, there's police reports available. I mean, you can look into these cases that obviously made news at the time they were happening. If it was the biggest recovery and seizure of money, the offenses to the
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B
report, the Cirque warrant, the court record, the seizure record, they had multiple documents to do, to look at. I agree with you 100%.
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A
I mean, if anything, if they wanted to make a movie based on somebody's ideas, then they should have just made a movie based on ideas and never said that it was based on true events.
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B
Correct? 100%. But when you do that, the basic person believes it. Sure. Of course, when you combine it with Miami, corrupt Miami, the capital of the world. Yeah. The Scarface, Miami Vice, all these movies that come out so the perception, along with saying was based on true events, everybody believes the movie.
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A
Let me ask you about the. So if they show the whole movie played and you watch the whole movie and you see at the beginning it's based on true events. And then at the very end, prior to the credits, you know how sometimes they give you an update on what's going on in someone's life or at the end of the movie, they'll give you, you know, what's happened after that? Do you think if at that point prior to the credits rolling, if they put up a screen that said names have been changed, not based on true. You know, this is, this is not the way the story ended. No one was ever implicated in, in taking any money. Do you think that that would have been an. An acceptable way for them to tell the story rather than the way they did it?
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B
The problem, Donna, is that doesn't sell well.
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A
Right.
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B
What sells is making people believe that it happens. So I think that what they should have done is right in the very beginning and 15 seconds in, when they talked about based on real life events, they should have put the disclaimer there. They did it even in the end of the movie. Okay. These people see it, but they didn't do that because that doesn't sell, right?
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A
Exactly.
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B
You want them to leave the theater and tell their friend, you saw what these cops just did. You got, you guys got to go watch this movie. It's incredible.
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A
Exactly.
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B
That's what sells.
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A
So what was your client's reaction when they first heard about this project? Because my guess is they heard about it prior to it actually being a movie.
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B
They, they saw the trailers and they were shocked. They went to a boxing match, I believe, in downtown Miami back in December. And in front of the location there was fake, like piles of $20 million cash and put on there with a statement saying, how much will you rip if you had the ability to find this much money? Wow. So the whole portrayal was this word rip. And the reality of it, it means to us that rip is taking something. Doesn't mean anything in the police world. So by them saying we're doing a rip in there in the theater, in the movie, they're talking about, yeah, we're taking the money. Not a true statement in the police world.
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A
And.
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B
But what, what does the regular person think of a rip? We're taking the money.
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A
Right? No, that's, that's true. And I'm sure if you, if you stood outside and I know this is streaming and people are watching it at home, but if it was at the movie theater and you stood outside and asked questions of people coming out, my guess is their answers would be that they believe that these two people were taking the money. And how. Let me.
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B
There we go again. More corrupt cop.
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A
Yeah, right. Exactly, exactly. So let me ask you this. So this is all happening. They're receiving these phone calls. People are assuming that they were thieves. What has changed in their life since all of this has come out? Since the fact that people are questioning them, has it affected their relationships? Are they able to work? Were they retired? Tell me a little bit about them and their, their lives as they stand now, given what's been going on.
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B
Let me, I want to do something here that you're gonna laugh at me. I'm gonna ask you a question. Donna, you are a criminal defense attorney. You have a client that was arrested by these individuals. Are you gonna ask him about this movie?
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A
Of course.
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B
And try to control in front of the jury. Hey, are you the guy from the rip when you accuse of ripping money from that 22 million dollar seizure?
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A
Sure.
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B
Of course this is going to be used against them for the rest of
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A
their career or even, even old people are going to have. There's going to be old cases where People come back, right, and say, I have new information and now I'm coming forward on, you know, new claims.
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B
Even though my clients never took a dollar, they're going to have that cloud over them for the rest of their career that they did. Even when they testify, when they apply for promotion or when they apply for specialized unit, that people are always going to think they took a bucket. That's something they got to live with for the rest of their life because of this film.
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A
Has the police or the sheriff's office now, has the sheriff's office come forward and made any statements about the movie? Have they come out publicly and said, look, these are just not factual portrayals?
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B
I am not aware of any. The only city that I am aware of is the mayor of the city of Pile, who is extremely upset that their city got portrayed as a gang infested drug hole with corrupt police officers.
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A
Yeah, I'm sure that's, it's really interesting. So what are you hoping comes from filing this lawsuit and bringing attention to it? Because frankly, you know, we know in a world that goes viral and there's always, you know, the newest, latest, greatest topic out there, what do you hope bringing attention to this and filing this lawsuit does for your clients? Because, you know, you and I talked about this offline before we started. I mean, I know as being somebody who represents criminal defendants on a daily basis, I know what it's like when somebody's wrongfully accused of a crime and walking into court and getting a not guilty does not give them their reputation back. So talk to me about how you're hoping to, you know, foster that because it's really tough to, to get that back. Especially while this movie continues to stream at, at high numbers.
- [19:43]
B
I think that just doing shows like this, it's a big positive for them to help get their message out. I think standing up to two major stars in their production company is a big message and this needs to stop. I think that they need to make it right by making my clients whole because they bought the story from the wrong person. It's my client's story to tell, not that other individual story to tell.
- [20:08]
A
You think it would be pretty easy for them to come out and make a statement and say, you know, look, we got this information, we thought it was truthful, we should have done a better job vetting it. And although we still, you know, loved making our movie, and our movie is really more just a fictionalized tale, the movie stands as is. But we will come out and say, look, you know, we apologize for Any problems this has caused, I just don't think that would be so difficult for them to do. And frankly, any press is probably good press for this movie, and people may tune in more if they were just honest about it.
- [20:44]
B
I learned a long time ago, Donna, good press back press is still price. And they're probably sitting back and seeing all the clicks right now because how many people, how many of your viewers are going to say, hey, wait, I don't want to watch this?
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A
Well, I hope they watch it. They watch it. But I'll say this. When you watch it, know that the portrayal of these two men is not accurate and they did not steal any money. So we'll, we'll put that out there for them.
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B
Correct, Donna? But I do think that my personal opinion is there has been no comments because they want people to go on there, see the movie.
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A
Right.
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B
And it, I don't know how many clicks it had on Netflix, but I know a lot of people that I've spoken to have gone to watch a movie after this was published.
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A
Yeah, I heard. I mean, even in the press, I read about it. At the point that I read it, it was 100 million, which is. That's a big number, correct?
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B
Correct. That's a big no views before we filed it law. That's correct.
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A
And your clients are still currently working?
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B
Yes, they are.
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A
And has this affected their ability? And obviously, other than, you know, what we talked about in terms of being in court and, you know, are they having people that are saying, you know, they don't want to work with them, is there any. Are they having any backlash at work given this, or is the law enforcement community smart enough to say, look, we're, we're not going to hold this against these guys because we know the truth?
- [22:10]
B
I would love to say that's the case, but my clients walk into a station, you see people talking about it and laughing about it. My. One of my clients wants to go back to narcotics, and he's not given the opportunity to go back to narcotics. So that's why I love that you've given me this opportunity to be here so the truth can come out, but at the same time, it's that cloud that will never go away. And you were mentioning earlier that your grandfather was a City of Chicago police officer for 42.
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A
42 years.
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B
That's. That's wonderful. Yes. I mean, you know how hard out of the 23 years he worked in the trust of his citizens and the people he worked with, and one movie destroyed that. Now you have to Rebuild it.
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A
Absolutely.
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B
That's what's going on here.
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A
It's terrible. Talk to me about if this case does go to jury, what do jury verdicts and damages look like in cases like this? Because this, this could be bit. I mean, if you're successful, this could be. Be very damaging to Ben Affleck and Matt Damon's production company because the jury could come back with large numbers.
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B
You know, Donna, that, that, that I think a story or request to me, you could sit down and have a very long dinner discussion, because it all comes down to the jurisdiction. All comes down to the judge that we have and being able to tell the story. But one positive thing with South Florida is South Florida is very pro law enforcement, very pro law and order. And I think that's a huge benefit on our side that's going to help these officers when we present a reserve.
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A
Yeah. Matt Damon and Ben Affleck would probably fare better with a Los Angeles county jury than they will a South Florida jury, that's for sure. Okay, so, so what, what type of a juror would you be looking for in a case like this? I mean, obviously the standard, you know, fair and impartial. We know that. But what, what characteristics in, in a juror would you be looking for to. To be fair in a case like this?
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B
Older.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Latino, hardworking professional. Someone who has a lot, a lot of life experience is what I will be looking for. I wouldn't be interested with a young kid. I wouldn't. I want somebody who's older, who's experienced, who worked, who had life experiences similar to this.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Who knows who can make a just decision.
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A
Yeah. Who knows what it's like to build a reputation and then what it would look like if that was taken away? Yeah, I agree with that. And especially, you know, the older generation. And I say that in my cases, too. I try a lot of sexual assault cases. And I always say, you know, women with sons are great jurors because they, they think about their own sons being in that situation. And, you know, you really don't want any women under 45 because that, that generation has been brought up with this notion that, you know, you have to believe all women and every story should be honored. And, and so it's just, it's very different. And I think that's true, too, with the way we view police and just talking about, you know, knowing what it was like when I grew up versus what it's like now. You're probably better off with a, a juror with some, some seasoned life Experience, that's for sure.
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B
Yeah, that's 100% on point. I was the major before I tired of special victims and I know a lot of sexual assault on the police side, then when you switch your hand and they say, going to the dark side. When you go to the dark side, you become a defense attorney. You're exactly on point on, on the jury members. You want on that jury.
- [25:39]
A
Yeah, absolutely. And it's, it's, you know, they're tough cases to try. I mean, we were just talking earlier this week about Harvey Weinstein's trial in New York and the fact that, you know, three trials in and they still can't get a, they're still getting hung verdicts and mistrials for him. So, you know, those cases are tough to prove regardless. And then you throw in all the nuance there and they're difficult. Let me ask you this. If Matt Damon and Ben Affleck are listening to this podcast, and if I can, I'll get it in their ear. Tell me what you would want to say to them.
- [26:13]
B
Number one, why don't we start portraying law enforcement like the way they are. Hard working individuals, family individuals, people that help you sleep at night knowing that you're protected, number one. Number two, let's make this right. This is my client's story, not an individual who wasn't even assigned to the unit. Those are my two biggest comments.
- [26:36]
A
Yeah, I think, I think that's fair. I think those are fair questions. And you know, maybe someday your clients will have the opportunity to sit down. And I think a really gentlemanly thing to do would, would be if the two of them said to your clients, you know what, let's sit in a conference room and tell me your story. And you know, maybe then they do a follow up or something to this movie to say, look, here's here, this was the fictionalized version and now we're going to give you the true story, which would be a true testament to everything that your clients have been through. How do you put an.
- [27:06]
B
I think that's a great idea.
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A
Maybe use that, use that in your negotiations. Let me, let me ask you, because I know that it's hard to put a number on these things. And how do you determine what a reputation is worth? And how do you think that reputation can be rebuilt? Do you think that, you know, obviously money, throwing money at it is, is one way to say, I'm going to try to make someone whole. But we know that doesn't just change this. And so for your clients, what do you think would make them the most satisfied? Would it be sitting down with them and having their story heard? Would it be them coming out publicly? You know, what would be the one thing that you. Because I think if I was in this position, I could say, look, this is the one thing that matters most to me, putting aside the financial side of it, because that'll probably happen anyway. So just tell me what you think the one thing is that's most important to them.
- [28:03]
B
That's a two part question. On the financial side, this is going to be a punitive damages jury award. So if you have the correct jury in Miami who's for law enforcement, they could come with an incredible number. You don't know until that happens. Well, on the other side, statement, like we talked about earlier, apologizing police officers, talking about what really happened in the scene will go far with my client. At the same time, we need to change the perception of law enforcement. We have to stop doing these movies and these TV shows are talking. The very individuals that protect us and help us sleep in, that help us walk down the street not having to worry that we're going to be a victim of crime. I'm lucky that I lived in South Florida. I live in South Florida and crime is low down here. And we have political leaders that support our police officers. We need to have that same perception with the people. Very few times when I was in uniform, Donna, very few times people walked up to me and said, thank you. Very few times people walked up to me and take my hand. We need to have more of that like it was when we were younger.
- [29:16]
A
You're right. And I do it all the time. I live in the city of Chicago and they're out on Michigan Avenue and on the side streets all the time. And every time we pass them, we always try to say thank you, because it's a rough city sometimes and they do keep us safe. And I will tell all of my listeners and viewers that when you are out there, make sure that you thank law enforcement, because I think it's really important. Ignacio, tell me what's next. What are we looking to happen next here in this legal phase?
- [29:44]
B
We are in the very beginning of litigation. We filed in federal court. We found out that now with illegal Easter, you understand, we had to establish diversity. And we found out that one of the owners in the ownership of the company lived in Florida. So we moved the case to state court. It has been filed. They agreed to waive service. And now we're waiting for their response so we can move the litigation forward.
- [30:10]
A
Wonderful. Well, we're definitely going to pay attention to this one because I think it's important and I do like my idea. I think they should do an alternative ending. They'd get a lot of press for it. They'd probably get a lot of viewers, and they should do the. This was one ending, and now we're going to do. We're going to do the true ending. So I think I want to use that.
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B
Or a documentary.
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A
Yes. Yeah, I want you to use that as part of your. Part of your negotiations with them and see how that goes. But, Ignacio, I thank you so much for joining me today. This has been a great conversation. I wish you and your clients the best, and I really hope that a lot of people listen to this and they start to realize that the. The true story is definitely quite different and that these are two really good police officers. So thank you so much for your time.
- [30:51]
B
Donna, thank you for the opportunity and look forward to coming on your show in the future again.
- [30:55]
A
Love it. Thank you so much. Thank you for joining me for another episode of Crime and Justice. Remember, we want to hear from you. Send us your thoughts, questions or theories, and we will answer them on air.