Inside the Oklahoma Cabin Surgery Case: Bob Lee Allen & Thomas Evans Gates

Summary

Crime Salad Podcast Summary: "Inside the Oklahoma Cabin Surgery Case: Bob Lee Allen & Thomas Evans Gates"

Podcast Information

• Title: Crime Salad
• Host/Author: Weird Salad Media
• Description: Ashley and Ricky, the dynamic duo behind Crime Salad, bring their unique perspectives and captivating storytelling to unravel some of the most intriguing criminal cases. With each episode, they dive deep into the details, providing listeners with a thought-provoking exploration of the darker side of humanity. Join them every week as they serve up a chilling dish of true crime that will leave you craving for more.
• Episode: Inside the Oklahoma Cabin Surgery Case: Bob Lee Allen & Thomas Evans Gates
• Release Date: August 10, 2025

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Introduction to the Case

The episode delves into a harrowing true crime story from October 2020, involving an illegal surgical procedure conducted in a remote cabin in rural Oklahoma. The case centers around Bob Lee Allen and Thomas Evans Gates, a couple accused of performing unlicensed surgeries, culminating in gruesome allegations of cannibalism.

Ashley [02:01]: "This is the case of Bob Leigh Allen and Thomas Evan Gates, two men who were arrested after allegedly performing an illegal surgery inside their Oklahoma cabin."

Background and Online Manipulation

The victim, a 28-year-old individual from Virginia, sought out Bob Lee Allen through online fetish community forums dedicated to body modification and castration. Bob advertised himself as an experienced "cutter" with 15 years of surgical experience, offering to perform the procedure for free.

Ashley [05:38]: "I mean, that has to be a huge draw, because most people who are searching for castration procedures online are doing so because they feel like they have no other option at all."

Arrival at the Cabin

Upon arriving at the cabin, the victim was warmly welcomed by Bob and Thomas. They were offered meals, a tour of the property, and accommodations for the night, creating a facade of legitimacy and care.

Ashley [07:57]: "Bob and his partner, Thomas Gates, were extremely welcoming. They offered them a meal, showed them around the property, and gave them a room to sleep in for the night."

The Illegal Surgery

The following morning, the victim anticipated the surgery, which was set to begin at 5 PM. Contrary to expectations, the procedure was performed without proper anesthesia, leaving the victim conscious and in excruciating pain for two hours. Bob utilized only a local anesthetic, inadequate for such invasive surgery.

Ashley [10:01]: "They described to investigators that the surgery was painful, painful and terrifying, but they felt like they couldn't back out once the surgery."

Post-Surgery Horror

After the surgery, Bob revealed a chilling aspect of their intentions by stating he would consume the victim's removed testicles, openly proclaiming himself as a cannibal. He also showed the victim pictures of a freezer allegedly filled with other human body parts, indicating a pattern of such heinous acts.

Ashley [13:22]: "Following the surgery, Bob told them that he was going to consume the testicles that he had just removed, laughing and proclaiming himself as a cannibal."

Emergency and Arrest

The victim, experiencing severe blood loss and weakness, was eventually taken to McAlester Regional Hospital. Bob and Thomas went to check on the victim, leading law enforcement to arrest them. A search of the cabin revealed syringes, controlled substances, and a deep freezer containing the victim’s removed body parts.

Ashley [20:28]: "So officers, they started and responded to this almost unbelievable tale by tracing the incident back to Bob Allen and Thomas Gates cabin securing a search warrant for the property on October 15."

Legal Proceedings and Charges

Bob Lee Allen and Thomas Evans Gates faced nine criminal charges, including performing unlicensed surgery, maiming, and unlawful possession of substances. During the trial, Thomas Gates chose to testify against Bob, resulting in reduced charges for himself. Bob initially denied all allegations but eventually pleaded no contest to five of the nine charges, receiving a combined sentence of time served plus 10 years in prison.

Ashley [26:50]: "The prosecutors were arguing that consent doesn't excuse dangerous, unlicensed medical practices."

Implications and Online Regulations

The case highlights the dark side of online communities that facilitate dangerous and illegal body modifications. It raises critical questions about how to protect vulnerable individuals seeking autonomy over their bodies while regulating hidden online spaces to prevent such tragedies.

Ashley [29:12]: "How do we protect people from harm while still respecting personal choice? How do we regulate spaces that are purposely designed to stay hidden from view?"

Conclusion and Reflections

Ashley and Ricky reflect on the ease with which trust can be manipulated online, leading to devastating consequences. The case serves as a stark reminder of the dangers lurking in unregulated online forums and the urgent need for better safeguards to protect individuals from exploitation.

Ashley [33:09]: "These topics are extremely important to talk about because behind the shock in the viral headlines, there are still real people, real lives that were affected."

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Notable Quotes:

• Ashley [05:38]: "I mean, that has to be a huge draw, because most people who are searching for castration procedures online are doing so because they feel like they have no other option at all."
• Ashley [13:22]: "Following the surgery, Bob told them that he was going to consume the testicles that he had just removed, laughing and proclaiming himself as a cannibal."
• Ashley [29:12]: "How do we protect people from harm while still respecting personal choice? How do we regulate spaces that are purposely designed to stay hidden from view?"

Key Takeaways:

• Exploitation Through Vulnerability: Bob Lee Allen exploited the victim’s desperation for body modification, offering free surgery without proper credentials or safety measures.
• Graphic and Disturbing Acts: The case escalated from illegal surgery to alleged cannibalism, highlighting extreme criminal behavior.
• Legal Consequences: Despite the severity, the defendants received sentences that some may view as lenient, raising questions about the legal system’s handling of such cases.
• Online Safety and Regulation: The episode underscores the need for better regulation of online forums that facilitate dangerous and illegal activities.

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Final Thoughts

"Inside the Oklahoma Cabin Surgery Case" is a chilling exploration of how online vulnerabilities can be exploited, leading to life-threatening and horrifying outcomes. Ashley and Ricky meticulously dissect the case, shedding light on the complexities of consent, legality, and the dark underbelly of internet communities. This episode serves as a cautionary tale about the importance of vigilance and regulation in the digital age.

Transcript

[Ashley]

Mmm. Oh.

[Ricky]

Whatcha eating?

[Bob]

The new banana split cookie from am pm all freshly baked with real butter with banana, chocolate and strawberry flavors.

[Ricky]

Wow, that sounds amazing. Can I have a bite?

[Bob]

I'm sorry, but no. But you can't split the banana split.

[Ashley]

Not even a little.

[Bob]

Not even a crumb.

[Ricky]

What if.

[Thomas]

No, please.

[Bob]

Mine.

[AM PM]

When it's too legit to split. That's cravenience. Get a 3 pack for 99 cents with our app ampm. Too much good stuff. Plus tax where applicable. Prices and participation may vary. Terms and conditions apply.

[Ricky]

What do you think makes the perfect snack?

[Thomas]

Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.

[Ricky]

Could you be more specific?

[Bob]

When it's cravinient.

[Ashley]

Okay.

[Bob]

Like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter available right down the street at am, pm Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at a.m. p.m.

[Ricky]

I'm seeing a pattern here.

[Bob]

Well, yeah, we're talking about what I.

[Ricky]

Crave, which is anything from am, pm.

[Bob]

What more could you want?

[AM PM]

Stop by AM PM where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's cravenience. Am, PM Too much. Good stuff.

[Ricky]

What do you think makes the perfect snack?

[Thomas]

Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.

[Ricky]

Could you be more specific?

[Bob]

When it's cravinient.

[Ashley]

Okay.

[Bob]

Like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter available right down the street at am, pm Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at a.m. p.m.

[Ricky]

I'm seeing a pattern here.

[Bob]

Well, yeah, we're talking about what I.

[Ricky]

Crave, which is anything from am, pm.

[Bob]

What more could you want?

[AM PM]

Stop by AMPM where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's cravenience. Am, pm Too much. Good stuff.

[Ricky]

What do you think makes the perfect snack?

[Thomas]

Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.

[Ricky]

Could you be more specific?

[Bob]

When it's cravinient.

[Ashley]

Okay.

[Bob]

Like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter available right down the street at a.m. p.m. Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at a.m. p.m.

[Ricky]

I'm seeing a pattern here.

[Bob]

Well, yeah, we're talking about what I.

[Ricky]

Crave, which is anything from AM pm.

[Bob]

What more could you want?

[AM PM]

Stop by AM PM where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's cravenience. Am, PM Too much. Good stuff.

[Ashley]

This episode contains graphic and disturbing content, including descriptions of extreme violence and Other mature themes. This story is not suitable for children and may be triggering for some audiences. Listener discretion is strongly advised. A person travels across the country to meet strangers in a cabin in rural Oklahoma. And what happened next involves surgery, blood loss and a freezer full of human body parts. We want to take you back to October of 2020, when a person from Virginia made a long journey to a remote cabin in southeastern Oklahoma. They were there to meet someone that they connected with online, someone who promised to help them carry out a deeply personal procedure. And what happened next was something straight out of a horror movie.

[Narrator]

What started out as a consensual arrangement between adults very quickly turned into a full blown criminal investigation.

[Ashley]

This is the case of Bob Leigh Allen and Thomas Evan Gates, two men who were arrested after allegedly performing an illegal surgery inside their Oklahoma cabin. But what really made headlines and what left investigators stunned was the comments that one of the men allegedly made about this surgery and others like it.

[Narrator]

Now these are all allegations taken from affidavits and police reports. But the more we dug into details, the more disturbing this story became.

[Ashley]

Who were the people involved? What actually happened in the cabin? And how did law enforcement find out? Today we are covering the strange case out of Leflore County, Oklahoma, A story that raises serious questions about consent, legality and the dark corners of the Internet. I'm Ashley.

[Narrator]

And I'm Ricky.

[Ashley]

And this is Crime Salad. Worcester, Oklahoma is a quiet rural and to many off grid place where a remote cabin in the woods wouldn't draw too much attention. But In October of 2020, that quiet was disturbed when a 28 year old individual from Virginia stumbled into McAlester Regional Hospital bleeding heavily. The person told emergency room staff that they had just had a surgical procedure performed, but not in any kind of medical facility and had been encouraged to participate in cannibalism. Not surprisingly, the hospital staff immediately called the police. Now, a little about the victim. Their name is out there, but they have said on multiple occasions that they prefer to remain anonymous in conversations about this case. So. So we will refer to them as the victim throughout this conversation. Secondly, the victim's gender identity isn't totally clear, so we're also going to use them to describe the victim as well. So according to the victim's statements to the police, they had been searching online for castration procedures, among similar terms. And this is where they found the peculiar couple of Bob Lee Allen and Thomas Evan Gates. Bob Leigh Allen was around 53 years old and Thomas Evan Gates 42. Now, according to the victim, Bob had advertised Himself online in fetish community forums, as someone experienced in body modification procedures, Bob boasted 15 years of surgery experience, telling the victim that the surgery wouldn't cost them any money.

[Narrator]

I mean, that has to be a huge draw, because most people who are searching for castration procedures online are. Are doing so because they feel like they have no other option at all.

[Ashley]

Right. Some are transgender or non binary and can't afford or have been denied the care that they're looking for. Others may feel misunderstood entirely, especially if their reasons don't fit into clinical categories. So instead of getting support, they turn to underground forums where procedures are offered without judgment and for lower price points. Now, we don't know if this reasoning is particular to the present victim, but it's important to say that this is a common reason that people seek out castration connections through the Internet rather than going to a licensed medical professional.

[Narrator]

And that's what makes this case so difficult to talk about, because it's possible that the victim was seeking to express themselves online, find a community around body autonomy and someone that cared about this cause to help them achieve that goal.

[Ashley]

Right, and someone like Bob allegedly used that vulnerability to lure them into an unsafe and exploitative situation.

[Narrator]

Yeah, exactly. These online spaces, they operate mostly undetected. People go there for all kinds of reasons. Some talk about gender dysphoria, some explore fantasies, and others are there for what they call nullification, which is basically removing genitals altogether as part of eliminating gender markers from the body. And, of course, it's important for people to have forums to speak safely about similar issues and thoughts. But when it leaves the Internet and becomes something dangerous, even if everyone consents, that's where the concern really comes.

[Ashley]

Right? That's a big piece. But according to the victim, Bob seemed legitimate as well as warm and caring throughout the whole ordeal. According to the police reports, the victim had arrived by plane on October 12th of 2020 after several days of communication with Bob Lee Allen and even had a Skype call. The victim said that when they got there, Bob and his partner, Thomas Gates, were extremely welcoming. They offered them a meal, showed them around the property, and gave them a room to sleep in for the night.

[Narrator]

Which, from some of the sources that we've seen, apparently Bob and Thomas, they use this cabin as an Airbnb, mostly for gay couples promoting loving vacations in a safe environment for those that were part of the LGBTQ community. So it doesn't really surprise me that they were so welcoming. And on top of that, for free procedure, as well as a flight room and board. The couple must have been spending thousands on this. So the victim must have been thinking that this was a cause they truly cared about.

[Ashley]

And, yeah, obviously, they weren't making money from it, which makes you wonder what their motives were. But we'll talk a little more about that later. So the victim spent the night at the cabin and awoke the next morning ready for the surgery. The victim reportedly asked Bob when the surgery would take place, and he responded, saying that he had some work to do on his computer, but that he would be ready to go at 5pm and when 5pm came around, the victim was led to the area where the surgery would be performed, noting that the surgery table seemed to be a dining room table draped with operation gowns. However, Bob had an array of surgical tools that made it seem like he was equipped to perform the procedure on the victim.

[Narrator]

And this is a type of preparation that makes you think that this wasn't the first time that Bob had done something like this. From the sounds of it, Bob seemed calm and prepared for the procedure. It makes you wonder, how many of these has he done before?

[Ashley]

Contrary to the initial comfortability of Bob's demeanor and seemingly advanced surgical prowess, the victim ended up going through a truly terrifying and painful experience during the procedure, Even though Bob had originally made them feel so comfortable. And according to the affidavit, the procedure lasted two hours. And the victim said that they were there conscious the entire time. They described to investigators that the surgery was painful. Painful and terrifying, but they felt like they couldn't back out once the surgery.

[Narrator]

Started, which we can't ignore the fact that the victim was awake the entire time and he experienced pain. I mean, if you were going to have something done like this, you would at least expect to be put to sleep or something, right?

[Ashley]

Yeah. Using general anesthesia, or at the very least, placed in a twilight sedation or regional anesthesia, which is where you're awake and responsive, but you can't feel anything.

[Narrator]

Throughout the body, which is terrifying.

[Ashley]

Yeah. And that's something you would do. You know, if a woman was to have a C section, they would be awake, but they can't feel anything from the waist down. But this wasn't the case.

[Narrator]

Doing a C section was one of the most traumatizing things I've ever been through.

[Ashley]

And I know you didn't have a C section. I didn't.

[Narrator]

I was gonna say, I know it was worse for you.

[Ashley]

Now, let's make it clear that neither of those things happened. Bob used a local anesthetic, which means that he only numbed a specific small area of the victim's. This is like lidocaine or Novocaine. That would be used for a dental procedure.

[Narrator]

Yeah, to numb up a tooth or something.

[Ashley]

But the genital area, it has a huge amount of nerve endings that spread to other parts of the body. So the victim was likely still experiencing a good amount of pain. And a certified trained surgeon would have never used a local anesthetic on someone for a procedure like this.

[Narrator]

Right. I mean, I can't imagine the type of pain and fear that they were going through. And we're not sure if the victim knew that they wouldn't be fully numbed or that they would be awake during the surgery, being that we don't have access to their private online conversations. But either way, it's so disturbing to hear that they felt like they couldn't back out of the surgery once it had begun.

[Ashley]

And that's why we're referring to them as the victim in this situation, because we've seen a lot of people bring up the fact that this person consented to this ordeal. But consent doesn't override the law, especially when it comes to a serious medical procedure like this. This person was operated on with hugely improper sedation. And the aftermath of the procedure included things the victim would never have consented to previously. At that point, it's not informed consent, it's exploitation. Legally, someone is a victim, even if they said yes in the first place, if the other person is abusing power, lying about their qualifications, or even putting them in extreme danger. And that's what happened here. So, yeah, the victim agreed to it, but that doesn't mean that they weren't harmed and exploited in this situation.

[Narrator]

And I think that's so important to say because there was even an aspect of this case where the victim no longer felt like they were in a consensual situation, like you just mentioned.

[Ashley]

Yeah, so let's get into that. So during the procedure, Bob completely, and we'll say loosely, successfully removed the victim's testicles and scrotum. And Thomas Gates was there, helping, handing Bob surgical equipment. Probably the most disturbing part of this case was directly after the surgery ended. The victim reported to police that following the surgery, Bob told them that he was going to consume the testicles that he had just removed, laughing and proclaiming himself as a cannibal. Annie had even encouraged the victim to eat them as well.

[Narrator]

Okay, this story just took a whole nother turn. I mean, it's one thing to talk about an illegal surgery, and as Horrifying and dangerous as that can be, turning it into the talk of cannibalism is a whole different level, which I think. The victim also said that Bob told him he had plenty of additional body parts in the freezer.

[Ashley]

Yeah, and Bob even showed the victim pictures of the contents of his freezer on his phone.

[Narrator]

This part really gets me. I mean, how freaking terrifying would it be? They're now realizing that they're in a dangerous situation with someone who's doing this for disturbing reasons.

[Ashley]

And it also confirms that this probably wasn't the first time the couple had done something like this. And pushes that idea that neither of the two men were doing this free surgery thing, coupled with a welcoming getaway solely to help desperate people in need of affirming surgeries. And that's further confirmed by the victim's statements about how the conversation continued with Bob. Apparently, Bob then said that he had six more people on the way to receive the same castration surgery.

[Narrator]

And you have to remember that Bob said he has a freezer full of body parts. Like, what the hell happened to all of those other victims?

[Ashley]

And you gotta think this victim was in a cabin in the middle of nowhere in Oklahoma.

[Narrator]

I mean, scary movies start out that way.

[Ashley]

The victim also said Bob told them that he had once operated on someone who was crazy, so he left him opened to die overnight.

[Narrator]

I mean, based off that statement alone, he went from, like, this good guy to, like, this really, really dark predator. I mean, behind that nice, caring and welcoming person that he appeared to be, he was clearly hunting for someone who would fall into his trap.

[Ashley]

Yeah, exactly. And as we'll see, we wouldn't be hearing about this story if the procedure had gone exactly as the victim expected it to go. As it was sold to them online by Bob before they arrived at the cabin. Nothing went as expected. And that conversation is just the beginning of it. We still haven't even addressed how the victim showed up at the hospital that day. So after the surgery was finished, the victim was sent to rest. They reported to the police that they woke up the next morning in an extreme amount of pain, Lightheaded and weak. They even stood up and immediately passed out. They were losing a lot of blood and were in a really dangerous medical situation. So they talked to Bob about their symptoms, and apparently Bob had told the victim that they had a huge variety of medications to give them, like hydrocodone, Oxycontin, and Percocet. The victim was even offered hard drugs and psychedelic mushrooms. Bob Allen did not want to bring the victim to the emergency room and he tried to treat the victim on his own. But eventually the victim said that Bob finally decided to take them to the hospital, but said that if the victim passed out or died on the way there that he would just dump them in the woods and leave them there.

[Narrator]

Nice guy.

[Ashley]

Which again shows that Bob never really cared about the victim's well being. The more time the victim is spending with him, the more Bob's mask is falling from this kind hearted man who just wants to provide free surgeries to people who are desperate. Now. Fortunately, the victim stayed conscious until their arrival at the hospital and Bob instructed them to say that they had done the castration on themselves, but they knew that they had to tell the truth. And this is the full circle moment to the beginning of the story where where the victim explains their story to the hospital staff and the police get involved. But let's take a quick break before we get into the incredibly concerning investigation. I don't know about you, Ricky, but lately I've been sleeping so much better. And it's because we switched to miracle made sheets.

[Narrator]

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[Ashley]

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[Narrator]

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[Ashley]

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[Narrator]

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[Ashley]

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[Narrator]

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[Ashley]

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[Narrator]

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[Ashley]

Think of a crime that's making headlines right now. Do you think people will still be talking about it in 20 years? What about 120? A lot of cases that once dominated the news fade from memory. Even the ones that changed laws, shifted public opinion, or were called the crime of the century at the time. And those are exactly the kinds of stories journalist Amber Hunt dives into on her podcast, Crimes of the Centuries. And some of the cases might ring a bell, like the Lindbergh baby kidnapping. But maybe you don't know all the details. Others you've likely never even heard of at all, like the case that helped end the death penalty in Great Britain or the first wrongful conviction in the US Ever overturned by DNA evidence. Amber's not just any journalist. She's a Pulitzer Prize winner who focuses less on the sensational stuff and more on the people involved. How the investigations unfolded, and why these cases still matter today. Follow Crimes of the Centuries wherever you get your podcasts and check out centuriespod.com for more.

[Narrator]

Okay, just imagine being the investigators and hearing this. It has to be insane. Like, where do you even start when you hear a story like that? This person went to a cabin in the middle of nowhere, received an illegal surgery, but suddenly it became about cannibalism. And then this God complex where this man performs a surgery and then gets to decide if you stay alive or not. It's gotta be so unsettling to hear a story like this, right?

[Ashley]

So officers, they started and responded to this almost unbelievable tale by tracing the incident back to Bob Allen and Thomas Gates cabin securing a search warrant for the property on October 15. No one was home when the search warrant was served. And police were informed while at the residence that Bob Allen and Thomas Gates were actually at the hospital where the victim was being treated.

[Narrator]

I mean, if I were the investigators, I would have rushed to that hospital immediately. I mean, you don't know what their intentions could be going to the hospital.

[Ashley]

According to news sources, though, Bob and Thomas, they were actually there to visit the victim and check in on their recovery. It seems so strange since Bob had basically told the victim that he would leave them to die and didn't even want to bring them to the hospital in the first place. Now he's checking in on them, which.

[Narrator]

Is probably what the investigators were thinking.

[Ashley]

But they were in a tough spot because they didn't want to waste any more time without searching the property. So the sheriff's office, they stayed at the residence to carry out the search warrant. But McAlester police, they went to the hospital and took both men into custody. So the investigators, they continued with their search of the property, and they took a variety of items into evidence, including the medicine cabinet, which contained various substances that the victim described. Syringes containing a clear liquid, adult diapers, three laptops, and a blue deep freeze, which is one of those chest freezers. When I read that they had recovered the deep freeze, I thought that they had found all the additional body parts that Bob had allegedly shown the victim on his phone. But apparently, what the investigators recovered seemed to be only the current victim's testicles that were removed, which is still wild and unsettling. Why didn't either of the two men dispose of them? Why keep them in a freezer? I mean, it just lends to the belief by many that Bob wasn't joking about the cannibalism claims. Otherwise, like you would say, why not just dispose of it? It's all so strange and unnerving.

[Narrator]

And we'll learn that even though investigators didn't recover any additional body parts, the one they did find was a big charge.

[Ashley]

Yeah. So let's talk about those charges. So, as we said before, the couple was arrested at the hospital while the search warrant was being conducted. After the search warrant was completed and the victim's statement was processed, both men faced nine criminal charges. These were performing unlicensed surgery, conspiracy to perform unlicensed surgery, maiming, unlawful use of communication facility, distribution of controlled dangerous substance, assault and battery with a dangerous weapon, failure to bury a dead human member, possession of a controlled dangerous substance, and unlawful possession of drug paraphernalia. Their bonds were set at $295,000 each. And at the bond hearing, the judge said that the sheer level of planning and the risks involved showed an utter disregard for human life. There was some speculation that federal charges would follow, especially with the victim crossing state lines and the use of the Internet to plan the sear. But ultimately, the case remained in Oklahoma's jurisdiction. And just to explain a couple of these, Unlawful use of a communication facility is referring to the fact that Bob used online spaces to facilitate illegal acts. And yes, failure to bury a dead human member is a real charge in Oklahoma, which is referring to the fact that Bob kept the testicles in a freezer rather than burying them on property. So both of them, they have racked up a combination of misdemeanors and felony offenses. So, I mean, they're looking at possible life in prison for these charges. In the court process, it was kind of a whirlwind. Thomas Gates, Bob's husband, decided to testify against Bob Allen in the case. And in exchange, prosecutors dismissed three felony accounts against him. So he ultimately pled guilty to the charges. Of possessing psychedelic mushrooms, possessing drug paraphernalia, and the failure to bury a dead human member. Obviously, he was never charged with any of the direct acts in the surgery, since it was pretty clear from the victim's statements that he was only there helping with the surgery. So he would have escaped the battery, maiming, and unlicensed surgery charges as well.

[Narrator]

Which is surprising to me because spouses cannot be forced to testify against each other. So the fact that Thomas made the decision to do that, that was completely voluntary? Well, I mean, in exchange for a lighter sentence.

[Ashley]

And that's up for debate as well. So according to news sources, even though the two claimed that they were married, Investigators said that they were not able to officially confirm that claim. So maybe they have been in what some people call a common marriage or a spiritual marriage, Meaning that it wasn't legally established. So the two could have been legally required to testify against one another if the case had gone to trial. But either way, Gates had agreed to testify truthfully in Bob Allen's trial, and he was sentenced to time served, which was about a year and around $5,000 in fines. Meanwhile, Bob Allen initially pushed back against the charges and pleaded not guilty. He starkly denied all of the victims claims about his behavior during and after the surgery procedure, and even claimed that the victim is the one who brought up the conversations about cannibalism. His attorney argued that the act was consensual, that the victim had willingly traveled across state lines and knew what they were agreeing to.

[Narrator]

To me, I think it's crazy to say that the victim is the one that brought up cannibalism, because just saying that kind of shows that that conversation happened, right? I mean, just that he didn't start it.

[Ashley]

But if that were true, why did he freeze the body parts he removed from the victim? Just him admitting that they had talked about cannibalism makes his guilt seem more.

[Narrator]

Certain, which, I guess it doesn't really matter in a legal sense since you can't really prosecute someone for that, but it lends to Bob's character and, you know, what his intent was.

[Ashley]

And this is basically what prosecutors were arguing. There was a lot of evidence against Bob Allen, and they pushed back against the defense, saying that consent doesn't excuse dangerous, unlicensed medical practices. So his case was ready to go to trial. But right before the trial was set to begin, Bob pleaded no contest to five of the nine charges and received a combined sentence of the time he had served in jail, in addition to 10 years in prison.

[Narrator]

So why do you think he did that?

[Ashley]

I mean, it's possible that Bob didn't want his husband to have to testify against him. And also, the evidence against him was likely very strong because, remember, police had recovered three laptops during the search warrant. And who knows what kind of evidence was on those laptops.

[Narrator]

I mean, this whole thing just feels like a horror movie.

[Ashley]

And that's exactly what the sheriff told the press. He said that this is something that you would see in a horror movie. Someone doing medical procedures in their home, in a cabin with no license, no training, and keeping body parts in their freezer. He said this is stuff of nightmares.

[Narrator]

I mean, this is going to be one of those cases that people remember for decades.

[Ashley]

Yeah. And news of this case, it went viral pretty quickly. Between the nature of the crime and the surreal details coming out of the affidavits, the story got picked up by national outlets. Cnn, NBC, even the BBC ran a short report on it. And looking at this case, it could have very well been a federal case. This took place across state lines. So it's almost like the couple got off a little easier than they could have in this case, especially with the kind of ill intent and lack of care that seemed pretty obvious, at least on Bob Allen's part. He didn't actually care about the victim receiving an affirming surgery, because the reality of the situation is that these types of underground procedures are pretty common, and they're arranged over the Internet all of the time. But I'm assuming that they don't have these horrific undertones that we know of.

[Narrator]

Well, let's talk about that for a minute. Because the Internet has created communities for pretty much every human interest that you can imagine. And most of these are totally harmless. People talking about hobbies, support groups, niche interests. But there's definitely parts of the Internet where these types of things happen, and.

[Ashley]

People have started to question how to regulate that to avoid what happened to the victim. In this case, Bob reportedly connected with a victim through a forum that focused on voluntary castration and body modification by one called Unik Maker. Apparently, the forum was designed to cater to individuals seeking castration through unlicensed cutters, as they're called online. Of course, these forums aren't illegal to have, and you can't police what people are talking about on the Internet, but acting on them in a way that Bob did, that's where things start to shift into criminal territory. And these communities don't always use mainstream platforms. Some of these sites are private forums, others live on the dark web, and some disguise themselves as support spacers for people with gender dysphoria or body identity issues. But the red flag with Unic Maker was that it was specifically a hub for people seeking castration procedures outside of the medical system. It was a space where volunteers connected with individuals claiming to perform these surgeries. People like Bob, who marketed himself as a cutter with experience. And you can't ignore that. People genuinely feel a psychological need to change their body. And doing that through legal channels is usually extremely expensive. So when you're desperate, you turn to other avenues. But the biggest concern here is that it's dangerous, quite obviously, from what we've seen with this case. And there's no safeguards against people who aren't actually equipped to do this safely or worse, have alternative disturbing motives like Bob had. But adults have the right to do a lot of things with their bodies. However, when someone performs a surgery without a license, outside of a medical setting and no way to handle complications, that almost removes the autonomy of the person consenting to it, because their life and safety isn't being fully considered, especially in this instance. And actually this isn't the first time an unlicensed surgery like this happened. Obviously there's forums that are dedicated to it online. So the victim's experience, while strange in the manner of Bob Allen's intentions, probably has happened before to someone else. There have been a handful of other cases around the world involving illegal surgeries or body modifications gone wrong, often with similar themes. Remote locations, online arrangements, and someone acting as a self appointed expert. And Bob was prepared. The tools, the setup, the way he spoke to the victim, all suggest that this wasn't a first attempt for him either. It just couldn't be proven definitively.

[Narrator]

I mean, that just shows how easily trust can be manipulated and how desperation can lead people into incredibly dangerous situations.

[Ashley]

It also raises an important question. How do we protect people from harm while still respecting personal choice? How do we regulate spaces that are purposely designed to stay hidden from view? And there's been a lot of discourse about that since this case became public. As far as Bob Allen and Thomas Gates, Bob is still in prison and will be until 2031. And Thomas Gates has remained pretty quiet and out of public view. And as far as regulating or approaching these online forums sensibly, all we can do from here is wait and see what comes from it.

[Narrator]

Kind of sucks that it takes terrible things to happen for things to change, like we're just waiting around for something terrible.

[Ashley]

Yeah. As always, we want to handle these stories with care, especially when it involves so much trauma and pain. So if you made it this far through this episode, we want to thank you.

[Narrator]

I barely made it.

[Ashley]

We know that this one was a heavy episode and maybe it was hard to listen to at times. You're probably not blasting it in your car on volume 30.

[Narrator]

Might have been with the windows down.

[Ashley]

In a McDonald's drive thru. But I mean these topics, they're extremely important to talk about because behind the shock in the viral headlines, there are still real people, real lives that were affected. And if telling their stories keeps even one person from falling into something similar, then maybe it's worth it.

[Narrator]

And if you want to hear more episodes like this, please subscribe, leave a review, and let us know what case you would like us to cover next.

[Ashley]

Stay safe and curious and thanks for listening. We will see you next week.

[Ricky]

What do you think makes the perfect snack?

[Thomas]

Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.

[Ricky]

Could you be more specific?

[Bob]

When it's cravinient. Okay, like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter available right down the street at a.m. p.m. Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at a.m. pM.

[Ricky]

I'm seeing a pattern here.

[Bob]

Well yeah, we're talking about what I crave.

[Ricky]

Would you anything from ampm?

[Bob]

What more could you want?

[AM PM]

Stop by AMPM where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's cravenience AM PM Too much good stuff.