‘She Saved Him, Can You Save Her?’ Rebecca Zahau | Part 2

Summary

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Crime Salad | ‘She Saved Him, Can You Save Her?’ Rebecca Zahau | Part 2

Date: May 17, 2026
Hosts: Ashley and Ricky

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Episode Overview

In the second part of their deep dive into the deaths at Spreckels Mansion, Ashley and Ricky meticulously dissect the contested death of Rebecca Zahau, following the fatal accident of 6-year-old Max Shaknai. This episode focuses on the physical evidence, conflicting investigations, civil litigation, and ongoing efforts by Rebecca’s family to overturn the ruling of suicide amid unresolved questions, highlighting systemic issues in the investigation and the enduring fight for accountability.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Scene of Rebecca Zahau’s Death

• Physical Evidence:
  • Knife with Rebecca’s menstrual blood around the handle; found during her cycle ([05:55]-[06:15])
    • Family’s forensic expert, Lisa Demaio, identified a corresponding transfer stain on Rebecca’s inner thigh.
    • Official investigation ruled no evidence of sexual assault; family experts disputed.
  • Multiple knives with Rebecca’s fingerprints on blade, not on handle ([06:16]-[06:40])
• Adam Shaknai’s Story:
  • Claimed to cut Rebecca down with a kitchen knife; his fingerprints weren’t on it ([06:20])
  • Black gloves found in mansion; mixed, unidentifiable DNA on a pair of garden gloves ([06:41]-[07:30])
  • No fingerprints anywhere at the scene belonging to Adam ([07:31])

The Painted Message

• Words “She saved him. Can you save her?” left on door in black paint ([08:00]-[08:22])
  • Paint found on brush and Rebecca's hand, torso, and rope.
  • Expert testimony: Message likely painted by someone 5'10"-6' tall; Rebecca was 5'3"-5'4" ([08:22])
  • Handwriting expert (Mike Wakshaw): Writing more likely Adam’s; block lettering limits certainty ([08:46])
  • Family said message style, wording, and handwriting didn't fit Rebecca’s habits ([08:46])

Death Scene Forensics

• Balcony evidence: Only Rebecca’s toe and heel prints on balcony floor; no full footprints or walking path ([10:14])
  • Bindings allowed a max 2-inch separation between ankles ([10:37])
  • Family's experts contested that she could have physically gone over herself, especially bound that way
  • Reenactment differences: Police evidence said bed moved 7 inches after drop; family expert’s reenactment bed moved 20 inches ([10:37])
• Neck injuries:
  • Pathologists Cyril Wecht and Paul Holz argued lack of severe neck trauma indicates she was likely strangled and then lowered, not "dropped" ([11:43])
  • Fractured hyoid bone (more common in manual strangulation) found, not considerable vertebrae damage ([11:58])
• Head trauma: Four contusions atop the head suggest blunt impact prior to the hanging ([12:39])
  • "How do you get bruises on the top of your head as the body is falling vertically downward?" – Cyril Wecht ([13:05])
• Bindings: Improbable that Rebecca bound her hands behind back herself; statistical rarity ([13:36])
  • She also gagged herself using a shirt prior to binding her hands ([14:15])

Unexplained Evidence

• Tape residue on legs: Unmentioned in initial reports. Either tape removed by Rebecca (never found), or applied and removed by another ([14:40])
  • "[...] either it was considered and dismissed without explanation or it was never fully investigated." ([15:59])

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Media & Public Response

• The case drew international attention and divided opinions ([19:56]):

  • Some writers (e.g., Kathy Scott, Victoria Pichon) called the ruling an "embarrassing public blunder."
  • Counterpoint by attorney Roy Black: Argues absence of evidence leaves no room for murder.
  • "Either the scene was incredibly clean for a murder or it was incredibly clean for a suicide or evidence was tampered with. Something is up here." – Ricky ([21:06])

• Jonah Shaknai (Rebecca’s boyfriend, Max's father) hired a crisis PR firm within a week of the deaths to manage media narrative ([21:43]):

  • "Most grieving people are not thinking about narrative control..." – Ricky ([23:10])

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Family and Independent Investigations

Rebecca’s Family

• JusticeForRebecca.org launched, advocating for independent review; media outreach, public calls for further investigation including a state-level review ([23:57])
• Cell Phone Evidence:
  • A voicemail from Jonah was deleted after being listened to at 12:50 AM the night Rebecca died ([24:57])
  • A witness claimed to hear a woman scream at 11:30 PM that night, prior to the voicemail ([25:39])

Max’s Mother – Dina Shaknai

• Conducted her own investigation utilizing experts ([26:22]):
  • Forensic Pathologist: Dr. Judy Melaniek
  • Biomechanics: Dr. Robert T. Bovee Jr.
  • Both experts argued that Max’s injuries couldn't have resulted from an accident ([26:59])
  • “It would be more accurate to certify Max’s death as a homicide, where homicide is defined as death at the hands of another.” — Dr. Judy Melaniek ([27:09])
• Procedural issues:
  • Family often received official findings after public announcements, never saw full analysis that formed basis for accidental ruling ([29:27])
  • A police diagram presented as evidence was not to scale ([29:57])
• Dina, who once suspected Rebecca, now believes someone else may have entered the house ([30:00])
• Max’s legacy: Two foundations established in his name; parents split in approach ([31:04]-[31:18])

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Legal Battle: Civil Lawsuit

• 2013: Rebecca’s family sued Adam Shaknai, Dina Shaknai, and Nina Romano ([34:48])
  • By trial, only Adam remained as defendant (others cleared by evidence, and public apologies issued ([35:50]))
• Civil vs. Criminal Standard:
  • Explained in detail: Civil “preponderance of evidence” vs. Criminal “beyond reasonable doubt” ([36:23])
• Knot controversy:
  • Family expert: Knots consistent with Adam’s nautical background ([37:04])
  • Defense expert: Demonstrated in court how Rebecca could've tied the knots herself; difference in figure-eight binding position in reenactments ([38:08])
• Jury verdict (April 2018):
  • Found Adam responsible, awarded $5.2M ([38:57])
• Post-trial disputes:
  • Sheriff's office did a new review; confirmed suicide ([39:57])
  • Adam’s insurance company settled with family for $600K; Adam was not consulted ([40:25])
  • Case dismissed with prejudice (cannot be tried again) and $5.2M award vacated ([40:42])

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Continued Advocacy and Unanswered Questions

• Mary Zahau's Advocacy

  • Mary (Rebecca’s sister) became the public advocate, arguing Rebecca was making specific plans for the next day—behavior inconsistent with suicidal intent ([41:40])
  • Submitted formal petitions to recategorize Rebecca’s death as “undetermined;” both denied ([42:08])

• Mary’s book: Unraveling the Knots (2025):

  • Details evidence overlooked or misinterpreted, e.g., partial male fingerprint, unexplained dryer sheet in guest bedroom ([43:22])
    • "Dryer sheets are sometimes used to remove fingerprints." – Ricky ([43:31])

• Other Voices

  • Author Caitlin Rother’s “Death on Ocean Boulevard” also concludes the scene was “staged,” notes mystery persists ([44:21])

• Family’s Current Goals:

  • Seek confession from Adam; official change of death ruling to “undetermined;” new independent (preferably federal) investigation ([45:40])
  • Continuing legal efforts and public awareness through Justice for Rebecca and their book ([46:27])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “If his story is true, his prints should be there. The absence is harder to explain than the presence would have been.” – Ricky on Adam and the knife ([06:20])
• “A fracture there is more commonly associated with manual strangulation than with hanging… a nine foot drop with no other damage is a hard combination to explain.” – Ricky ([11:58])
• “So either he was wearing gloves or the knife was wiped.” – Ricky ([06:41])
• “She saved him. Can you save her?” – Message found painted at scene ([08:22])
• “It would be more accurate to certify Max’s death as a homicide, where homicide is defined as death at the hands of another.” – Dr. Judy Melaniek ([27:09])
• “Conclusion first and then evidence later. That seems backwards.” – Ricky ([29:27])
• “Her family has never cared about the money. They knew it wouldn’t bring Rebecca back. What she wants from Adam Shakni is a confession… and for the system, she wants the manner of death changed to undetermined and a new investigation.” – Ricky ([45:40])

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Timeline of Important Segments

• 05:55 – 08:46: Physical evidence, painted message, and forensic details
• 10:14 – 15:59: Questions about the mechanics of Rebecca’s death and additional evidence (tape residue)
• 19:56 – 23:57: Public/media reaction and crisis PR response
• 24:57 – 31:18: Family investigations into Rebecca and Max’s deaths; expert findings and procedural critiques
• 34:48 – 41:01: Civil lawsuit, trial details, knot controversy, verdict, and aftermath
• 41:09 – 44:21: Mary’s advocacy, unanswered questions, new evidence highlighted in her book
• 45:34 – 46:27: Family’s ongoing campaign for re-investigation and public calls to action

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Final Thoughts and Call to Action

Ashley and Ricky end the episode highlighting the toll on both families and urge listeners to support renewed investigative efforts. They recommend Mary Zahau’s Unraveling the Knots and Caitlin Rother’s Death on Ocean Boulevard for further reading, and plug the Justice for Rebecca Zahau Facebook page for ongoing updates.

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This summary covers the core content, evidence, and insights from the episode, enabling listeners to grasp the complexity and ongoing debate surrounding the Rebecca Zahau and Max Shaknai cases.

Transcript

[Ashley]

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[Ricky]

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Rated PG.

[Ricky]

This episode discusses suicide, the death of a child and allegations of sexual assault. If any of these topics may be difficult for you to hear, please take care of yourself. If you or someone you know is struggling, you are not alone in the United States. You can call or text 988-to- reach the suicide and Crisis Lifeline. If you are experiencing domestic abuse, the National Domestic Violence hotline is available 24 hours a day, seven days a week at 1-800-799-7233. And if you have experienced sexual assault, rainn can be reached at 1-800-656-4673. We also want to be clear about how we're approaching this case. The information in this episode is drawn from publicly available news reports, court records, autopsy reports official statements and books published about this case. Where allegations or theories are presented, we will identify the source. Adam Shaknai has consistently maintained his innocence and was never criminally charged in connection with this case. The 2018 civil verdict that found him liable for Rebecca's death was vacated as part of a 2019 settlement. And there was never a criminal trial related to Rebecca's death. Statements about specific individuals throughout this episode should be understood as allegations, opinions, or attributed claims from named sources, not as statements of fact by us. Last week, we walked through two tragic deaths. Both incidents happened at the same location, the Spreckles Mansion in Coronado, California. Days apart. And it all began on July 11, 2011, when Max fell at the Spreckles Mansion. Investigators said max, who was 6 years old, 3ft 9 inches tall, stumbled over the second floor banister and grabbed hold of a chandelier before falling nine feet to the ground below. There was a ball and a child's scooter in the area, and police theorized he tripped while he was running. At the time of Max's fall, there were two others in the mansion. Rebecca Zahao and her teenage sister Zina. Rebecca was in a bathroom and didn't witness the fall. That's her account. And Xena says that she was in a different bathroom showering on July 13, 2011. Two days later, Rebecca was found naked, bound, and gagged in an apparent suicide hanging, leaving behind words painted on a door in black. She saved him. Can you save her? Then, three days after Rebecca's death, Max passed away at Rady Children's Hospital from his injuries. Today we are going to walk through the physical evidence, the independent investigations, the civil trial, and what Rebecca's family has been fighting for ever since. I'm Ashley. I'm Ricky, and this is Crime Salad. So let's start with the scene where Rebecca was found. So at the scene, investigators, they found a knife with blood all the way around the handle. Investigators determined that she was on her menstrual cycle at the time of her death. And the blood on that knife handle was tested and confirmed to be Rebecca's menstrual blood. At the civil trial, the family's forensic specialist, Lisa Demaio, testified to this. And she also testified that there was a mark on Rebecca's inner thigh that looked like a transfer stain, the same size and shape as the handle. Now, the official investigation found no evidence of sexual assault. The family's experts disputed that conclusion. And that gap is one of the most contested points in this entire case. And there Were multiple knives found in the bedroom. Demaio also testified at the civil trial that there was a large chef's knife that was found in the guest bedroom with Rebecca's fingerprints on both sides of the blade. But there were no fingerprints at all on the wooden handle. None.

Adam Shacknight told investigators he ran to the kitchen, grabbed a knife, and used it to cut Rebecca down. Investigators identified the knife he said he used. His fingerprints were not on it. If his story is true, his prints should be there. The absence is harder to explain than the presence would have been.

So either he was wearing gloves or the knife was wiped. Now, in civil court, Adam testified that he was not wearing gloves. But the search warrant documents describe a pair of black gloves found on a table and a single black latex glove found in a crawl space under the basement stairs. Separately, there was a pair of garden gloves that were found on a living room table. At the civil trial, the sheriff lieutenant testified that each of these items, they were tested in 2011. And one of the garden gloves showed a mixed DNA sample from at least two individuals, but the amount was too small to interpret or compare to anyone.

So the result isn't that no one's DNA was found. It's that the DNA that was found was mixed. So the lab said they couldn't use it.

So there was the mixed DNA. And then Lisa DiMeo also testified that Adam Shacknai's fingerprints were found nowhere at the scene. Not on the knives, not on the rope, nowhere, despite the fact that he was the person who found Rebecca and cut her down. Now, as for the message that was painted on the door, she saved him. Can you save her? Sheriff Bill Gore described it as not a clear suicide note. Still, investigators considered it as part of the suicide narrative. There was a tube of black paint that was found on the floor with the lid still open. The Sheriff's department confirmed black paint was found on a paintbrush on her hand, on her torso, and on the rope around her neck. And so investigators, they concluded that Rebecca had removed her clothing and painted the words on the door herself.

And here's something really interesting relating to that. An expert testified the message was likely painted by a person between 5ft 10 inches and 6ft tall. Rebecca was 5ft 3 to 5ft 4. According to Greer's statement to the jury, Adam Shacknight is 5ft 11 inches, and he falls squarely in that range. Rebecca doesn't even come close.

And there was also a handwriting expert. There was forensic document examiner Mike Wakshaw, and he testified at the civil trial that he compared block print samples from both Rebecca and Adam against the writing on the door. And his conclusion was that the writing more likely came from Adam than from Rebecca. He was careful to call it an indication, not a certainty, because block lettering limits the available comparison points. But a height estimate and an independent handwriting analysis pointing the same direction is not nothing. The family had their own reading of all of this. Rebecca enjoyed painting as a hobby, and she often signed her work. Her siblings even argued that the message didn't match her handwriting at all. Her ex husband even said the wording itself didn't sound like something Rebecca would write. Then there was the question of how she went over the balcony. The sheriff's department said only Rebecca's toe and heel prints were on the balcony floor, consistent with her foot size and a person leaning forward over the railing. They also said the disturbances in the dust on the railing matched the width of her torso and the rope. There was a male boo print that was found on the balcony, but investigators traced it to one of the responding officers who later testified he did leave it. And so the sheriff's conclusion was that Rebecca had stepped onto the balcony herself and taken her own life.

So here's what bothers a lot of people about the suicide ruling on that balcony. Investigators found a toe print in a heel print. Not a clear set of footprints, not a walking path. A toe print and a heel print. You're not even standing on your own two feet with evidence like that. And remember, her ankles were bound. The autopsy says they could be separated a maximum of 2 inches.

Right. She would have had to shuffle or hop with her hands tied behind her back and then get herself up and over the railing. Now, the sheriff's department, they say that the prints are consistent with her leaning over the railing on her own. But the footprints don't show that. The family's experts said she didn't go over the way the sheriff thinks she did. There was an oxygen reenactment using a dummy with the same bed, the same carpeting. And in their version, the bed moved about 20 inches after the drop. Police evidence said that it moved seven inches. That's a pretty big difference. Pathologist Cyril Wecht and cold case investigator Paul Holz raised the same concern about her neck. A nine foot drop with the rope tied off at the bed should have produced significant trauma to the cervical vertebrae. Holes called it a long drop, the kind of force where you would expect devastating injury or even internal decapitation. Rebecca had a fractured hyoid bone and minor cartilage damage. But no injury to the vertebrae.

The hyoid is a U shaped bone in the front of the neck. A fracture there is more commonly associated with manual strangulation than with hanging. It can happen in a hanging, but a nine foot drop with no other damage is a hard combination to explain.

Wecht's conclusions was that Rebecca had been strangled before she went over and that her body was actually lowered, not dropped. Two completely different theories of the same body hanging from the same rope. The autopsy also revealed four contusions on the top of the head, described medically as subgalial hemorrhages, meaning bruises between the scalp and the skull. The kind of injury that is caused by blunt impact, her head striking something or something striking her head. At the civil trial, Greer argued that those four blows had rendered Rebecca partially or fully unconscious before she was ever hanged.

Cyril Wacht put it plainly after reviewing the autopsy. He said, we are talking about contusions on the top of the head. So even as the body is falling down, let's say there are branches. How do you get bruises on the top of your head as the body is falling vertically downward? His point is that a falling body produces contact injuries on the sides and front, not the top.

So let's talk about the bindings. It's a big one. There was reenactment after reenactment that was demonstrated to explain how someone could bind their own wrists behind their back. The theory is that she would have tied her hands in front of her body first. Then she would slip one hand out while keeping the loops intact with move both of her hands behind her back, slide her free hand back in. And they released a video of this process to support their findings. And even with all of that, people were not convinced.

And I've looked at the images, the knot configuration on Rebecca's wrists, they don't match what you would expect to see if someone tied their own hands behind their back from scratch. And the statistics back that up. Studies on suicide by hanging show that cases where hands were tied behind their back represent roughly 0.5%, 5% of all hanging deaths. So it's not impossible, but it's genuinely rare. And tying your own hands behind your own back, that requires a level of premeditation and dexterity that sits very uncomfortably next to the theory that she was acting out of sudden overwhelming guilt.

And she apparently also knotted a long sleeved shirt around her neck and gagged herself with the bottom portion of the shirt. And this would have had to have happened before she tied her hands behind her back. And the investigator's own timeline asks us to believe all of this happened out of guilt for Max's accident two days earlier.

But the problem there is that Max was still alive when she died.

So here's another thing. This got buried and almost nobody talks about it. When CBS 8 and ABC News obtained the full autopsy report in September of 2011 and they found a detail that had never been mentioned at the sheriff's press conference or at trial or anything, there was tape residue on both of Rebecca's legs.

The kind of mark left behind by something like duct tape that was applied and then removed. Which is suspicious.

It is because investigators, they said Rebecca used rope to bind her feet. That's the official story. And the tape's never mentioned. So the question nobody got a clean answer to is why is there tape residue on her legs at all? Where did it come from? And where did the tape go?

Cyril Wecht laid out the only two things that made sense. One, she planned to tape her own feet, changed her mind and then switched the rope and then removed the tape herself. In which case, where is the tape? Because it was never found at the scene.

And option two?

Well, someone else applied the tape to her legs while subduing her and then removed it before staging the scene. Those are the options. There's really no third option that accounts for tape residue and no tape.

Yeah, the tape thing is really weird. It's a big mystery. CBS 8 had to obtain the autopsy to find this information. Either it was considered and dismissed without explanation or it was never fully investigated. Either way, the family never got an answer on it. This episode is sponsored by Quints and I have to tell you, I have been really intentional lately about building a wardrobe that actually works for my life. I am a 35 year old mom. Things I can throw on without thinking about it. That just feels so nice. And Quints has become the place I buy from. Everything I have gotten from Quints just fits right into my life in a way that I did not expect for the price. Quince makes it easy to refresh your everyday with pieces that feel as good as they look. They use premium materials like 100% European linen, organic cotton and ultra soft denim. Their lightweight linen pants, dresses and tops start at just $30 and are effortless, breathable and easy to wear on repeat. And here's the part that gets me. Everything at quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the midd middleman. So you are paying for quality and craftsmanship not brand markup. It's springtime and the piece I have been reaching for constantly is their water repellent windbreaker jacket. I got the moonstone blue and it has become my go to for basically everything. Walking the pugs, running errands, going to my son's games that are outside when it's raining a little bit. It is lightweight and it packs down small enough to throw in my bag so if I ever need it I just pull it right out. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to Quince.com Crimesalad for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.com Crimesalad for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Crimesalad starting or growing your own

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[Ricky]

of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only then full price plan options available taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] both Rebecca's death and the tragic death of 6 year old Max Shaknai quickly drew intense public and media attention. The story spread far beyond California, reaching audiences in New Zealand, Finland, Spain and the United Kingdom. As investigators stood by their ruling of suicide, outside voices began to speak up. There were writers from Forbes, including true crime author Kathy Scott and the attorney Victoria Pichon. They openly questioned the conclusions of the investigation. Bichon went as far as to call the ruling an embarrassing public blunder. But not everyone agreed. Trial attorney Roy Black published a column in the Daily Beast pushing back against theories of foul play. He said how could anyone do all of this without leaving behind a scintilla of microscopic evidence? He argued they would have had to wear a full rubber suit and levitate over the scene. And he urged the media to stop calling it a murder.

I get that he's trying to make a point, but bringing up a rubber suit or a space suit, I mean, is that sarcasm? But to add to his point, it is strange because other people had been in and around that house days before. Adam, Xena, Max, Jonah. And the only DNA at the scene was Rebecca's. Adam's DNA wasn't on the knife that he said he used to cut her down. I mean, how is that even possible? Either the scene was incredibly clean for a murder or it was incredibly clean for a suicide or evidence was tampered with. Something is up here.

Law enforcement stood firm on their conclusions after meeting with Rebecca's sister Mary and her husband in Missouri to walk through their findings. Sheriff Bill Gore said it was unfortunate that they couldn't accept the results. While the family was speaking publicly, grieving, trying to wrap their heads around what actually happened, Jonah Shaknai was managing his own battle with the media. Within a week of the deaths, he hired the public relations from Sitric Co. Which specializes in crisis management and corporate reputation. They are known for high profile clientele advising companies, executives and individuals facing legal, financial and reputational challenges. And Medicis itself was no stranger to that kind of press. The company had previously faced high profile lawsuits involving patients who developed drug induced lupus and hepatitis, eventually leading to rulings that the company could be held liable for failing to warn customers. According to the statement from the firm, the goal in Jonah's personal case was to handle the overwhelming number of media inquiries, allowing Jonah time to grieve and make funeral arrangements behind the scenes the firm was also engaging with journalists, challenging reports they believed contained inaccuracies. So while the family was pushing for answers publicly, this was all happening too.

One thing to keep in mind, this is a tragedy all around. The point here isn't to say if Jonah was grieving or not. I mean, of course he was. His son just tragically died. It's sad, but there is something here that's hard to ignore. You have one side of the family that's trying to wrap their head around losing Rebecca, and the other side has a crisis PR firm managing the story within a week. I mean, most grieving people are not thinking about narrative control. And the people who are are usually people who understand that something could become a very big problem. And I'm not saying what that something is. I'm just saying that the instinct itself, it's probably worth noting.

After the official ruling, Rebecca's family wasn't done. They launched a website called justiceforrebecca.org and started raising money for their own investigation. And Rebecca's sister Mary, she went on NBC's Today show to publicly call for a state level review. Jonah Shaknai also took action. It was in September of 2011 when he wrote a letter to California Attorney General Kamala Harris asking for an independent review. He said he didn't personally doubt the suicide finding, but he wanted to give clarity to those who did. That request was actually denied. The next day. Chief Assistant Attorney General Dane Gillette said that the office only stepped in under narrow circumstances. Public speculation wasn't one of them. Meanwhile, investigators, they ran a second analysis on Rebecca's phone using newer technology. By early October, they confirmed nothing new had been found.

It's interesting that they're looking at her phone again. We covered this in part one, but there was a voicemail police say Jonah left, and Jonah confirms that it was him. According to the phone records, someone listened to a two minute message at 12:50am on July 13. Jonah says he was calling to tell Rebecca that Max had taken a turn and that he might not make it. So what's interesting though is that voicemail was deleted. There's no record of the message itself. And there was a witness near the mansion who came forward saying that she heard a woman screaming around 11:30pm now, according to that timeline, that would be before that call.

So while Rebecca's family was fighting one rolling, Max's mother, Dena Shaknai, was quietly fighting another. According to a 2012 write up in Arizona Foothills magazine. Dina is a clinical psychologist by training and she used that background to dig into the inconsistencies in her son's death. And there's a quote of hers from a 2012 NBC News interview that lands hard. She said, quote, he was such a beautiful, generous child. And she also shared that Max's organs were donated. His liver saved an infant and his kidneys went to two adults.

Three other people today are alive because of Max.

Yeah, I thought that was really cool that she shared that. On July 16, 2012, this is one year after Max died, Deena held a press conference in Phoenix with her attorney, Angela Hallier. She had spent nine months running her own investigation. She hired two experts. Forensic pathologist Dr. Judy Melaniek from the San Francisco office of the chief medical examiner and biomechanics expert Dr. Robert T. Bovee Jr. From the Engineering firm Exponent. And both concluded the accidental fall theory could not explain Max's injuries.

Biomechanics is basically the physics of bodies. So one expert's reading the body, the other is reading the scene. They land pretty much in the same place.

Dr. Malinek's words in her formal report were direct. She said, quote, it would be more accurate to certify Max's death as a homicide, where homicide is defined as death at the hands of another. And her findings went beyond a general this wasn't an accident. She concluded Max's injuries existed on multiple planes. According to hallier in the August 2012 PR newswire release, an assault scenario was the only one that accounts for the multiple planes of injuries on Max's body and the scene findings.

A simple fall hits one surface, the floor. Multiple planes means that he hit multiple things, which usually means that he was moved.

Melaniek also flagged the biomechanics. She told Fox News, he's got too much injury for just a simple fall from the railing. She added that Max's center of gravity was too low for him to have flipped over the banister himself. She went on to say that it doesn't make any sense and it defies gravity.

So a pathologist saying that the official story violates physics for a six year old.

NBC News also reported on the back injuries, describing them as patterned.

Patterned just means that the injury carries the imprint of a specific object, like a railing edge. You don't usually see that in a clean, accidental fall.

And there's one detail in Melaniek's report that hits harder than the rest. So Rebecca told investigators that before Max became completely unresponsive, he said the dog's name Ocean. According to Dr. Melanek, given Max's injuries, that statement would have been medically impossible. Dina's team also surfaced procedural problems. According to her August 2012 release, she didn't get Coronado's PD biomechanics report from their own expert, Dr. Mark A. Gomez, until three weeks after the 9-2-2011 multi agency press conference. The official ruling of accident had already been announced publicly and the family hadn't even seen the analysis behind it.

Conclusion first and then evidence later. That seems backwards.

And it got worse. According to her September 2012 release, Commander Lawton of the Coronado Police Department later acknowledged to Dina that the diagram presented at the September 2nd press conference, the one showing how a six year old went over the railing, used an inaccurate scaling of Max's frame to that of the staircase.

The picture they showed the public wasn't even to scale.

And when Deena's team submitted their experts findings, Coronado PD never shared that evidence with Dr. Gomez, the original biomechanics expert. Their entire ruling was built on his analysis. He was never asked whether the new findings changed his mind. Now, it's worth noting here that Dina's view on Rebecca has evolved. Her experts originally said the findings supported Rebecca's direct involvement. However, by 2018, in an interview with Town and Country, Dina stepped back from that. She said, quote, I don't have reason to believe that Rebecca killed Max. And she told the magazine how now she thinks someone else may have entered the house. What would have been Max's seventh birthday. Jonas Shaknai launched a nonprofit called Max in Motion. It provides scholarships for financially disadvantaged Arizona kids to play youth sports, soccer mainly, since that was Max's sport.

According to a 2012 Phoenix Magazine profile, Dena says that she wasn't asked to be a part of it. She found out through a one line text the day before the launch. So she went and started her own foundation in Max's name, Maxi's house.

Now to be clear, Max's death has never been investigated as a homicide. Despite everything the trauma doctor's concerns at the hospital from the very beginning, the CPS probe, Dr. Melaniek's homicide findings, Dr. Bovee's biomechanics analysis, the procedural problems, the case has never been reopened. As far as Rebecca's family, they had been working with their own legal team since the fall of 2011 and they hired Seattle attorney Ann Bremmer.

Bremner is one of the most recognizable trial attorneys in the country. Civil rights, criminal defense, catastrophic loss. She's who you bring in when you want a story to stop being ignored.

Now she publicly criticized the medical examiner's conclusions, calling them unprecedented. She told ABC News there had never been a reported female suicide that looked like this to her. Given everything we walked through the last episode. The ruling was ridiculous on its face and her comments sparked pushback. Chicago attorney Dan Webb, representing Jonah Shaknai at the same time sent Bremer a cease and desist letter. He warned that her statements were defamatory. He said that she was implying Jonah used his wealth to interfere with the investigation.

So this is basically a Chicago heavyweight telling her to back off, get sued now.

The warning didn't go any further. Filing the actual lawsuit would have just brought in more attention to the case. A 24 year old burning alive inside his own apartment. Police waited outside for 38 minutes. Was this an accident? A suicide? A specific section on both wrists unburned. Hours earlier, he would tell his parents that if his wife found out he was leaving, she would go ballistic. That's our episode. She'd go ballistic. The suspicious death of David Elmquist. This is Crime Salad. I'm Ashley.

I'm Ricky.

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[Ricky]

In July of 2013, on the two year anniversary of Rebecca's death, her family filed a wrongful death lawsuit. Initially seeking $10 million in damages, they named three defendants. Adam Shaknai Dina Shaknai and Dina's twin sister, Nina Romano. Jonah Shaknai was not named. By 2017, the family's attorney, Keith Greer, had already dropped Nina from the case. A witness had backed up her claim that she'd never been inside the mansion. And in April of that same year, after Rady Children's Hospital security footage placed Dina at her son's bedside. Night Rebecca died, Greer dropped her, too. And he actually apologized to both sisters publicly during a press conference. That left one defendant, Adam Shaknai. Now, before we go any further, just to remind you, this was a civil trial. This was not a criminal trial. They have two completely different sets of

rules, a different burden of proof. In a criminal trial, the prosecution has to prove the defendant did it beyond a reasonable doubt. That's the highest standard we have. Because you're talking about someone taking someone else's freedom away.

In a civil trial, the bar is way lower. It's called preponderance of the evidence. All the plaintiff has to do is convince the jury. It's more likely than not. If the jury thinks there is a 50.1% chance that the plaintiff's right, they win.

It's the difference between yes, I'm sure and yes, I think so.

And the stakes are different. Criminal, your freedom, civil money. The system isn't trying to lock anyone up. It's trying to figure out who pays.

Which is why the same set of facts can end up in two different places. Adam was never criminally charged. The sheriff still calls it a suicide. But in civil court, the family only had to tip the scale slightly, and they did that.

Now, there's a piece of background about Adam that we mentioned in part one at the very end. He was a tugboat captain on the Mississippi river since the late 90s.

Tugboat captains tie knots all day. That's the job.

So this 2018 civil trial, it turned into a full on knot fight. The family's attorney, Keith Greer, brought in a knot expert named Lindsay Philpott, a former charter boat captain. And he testified that the knots on Rebecca were overhand knots in a clove hitch.

Common nautical knots, which lines up with Adam's day job. That was the whole point.

Adam's defense team brought in their own knot expert, Robert Krisnol. Krisnall has written peer reviewed papers on knots and trains law enforcement on them. He said Philpott misidentified the knots on Rebecca's ankles, wrists, neck and the bedpost. He testified the knots were consistent with what he sees in suicide cases. And he demonstrated it right There in the courtroom, tied his own wrists together using the same knots. Slipped one hand out, moved his hands behind his back, slipped his hand back in.

And that kind of in court demo sticks with a jury.

Yeah, definitely. They're given a visual of this demonstration of how this knot was tied. Like, yeah, see how easy it was? I could do it. That's what she did. But the family side had its own observation. Forensic criminologist Paul Holz looked at the case for the oxygen series death at the mansion, and he noticed something specific on Rebecca's hands. There's a figure eight worked into the binding in the police photo. That figure 8 sits at the top of the loops in the sheriff's reenactment video. The figure 8 ends up at the bottom.

And that difference matters. The figure eight at the bottom. You can work the rope, you can move your hands. A figure eight at the top. The way that it was on Rebecca, you can't do that.

Meaning the sheriff's demonstration used the easier version, not the one that Rebecca would have actually had to perform. In April of 2018, almost seven years after Rebecca's death, the jury reached a decision. They found Adam Shakni responsible. They awarded the family roughly $5.2 million. Adam's legal team rejected the verdict hard. Dan Webb, now representing Adam directly, said that he was absolutely astonished. He called the accusations false and unsupported by credible evidence. Within two weeks, the San Diego County Sheriff's Department reopened the case for review. New investigators, not the ones who worked on it. In 2011, they re examined the evidence and resubmitted it to the medical examiner. By November of 2018, the conclusion was the same. Suicide.

The family pushed back hard. A public PR campaign accusing officials of ignoring critical evidence. Investigators noted that the family hadn't actually submitted their civil trial evidence to the review.

Adam was meanwhile fighting the verdict. He vowed to appeal. But in February of 2019, before the appeal could be fully argued, his insurance company stepped in and settled with the Zaha family for $600,000.

So not 5.2 million. And here's the part that most people miss. Adam wasn't consulted. His insurance company decided that they were done paying his legal bills and cut the check. He was publicly furious and said that the system failed him.

Once the settlement was accepted, the case was dismissed with prejudice. That means the court has made a final determination and the plaintiff is forever barred from filing the same lawsuit again. The $5.2 million verdict was vacated. Adam has consistently maintained his innocence.

So the family won. And then the System erased the win.

So in the years that followed, Mary became the public voice of who Rebecca actually was, not the suicide narrative, not the headline. Her sister Mary said Rebecca was deeply committed to family. She supported their parents because she'd promised them that she and her sister would never let them struggle the way they did growing up.

And Mary believes that losing Rebecca contributed to their father dying two years later. Basically, a broken heart that just gave out.

Mary has talked publicly about a conversation she and Rebecca had the night before. Rebecca was making plans for the next day. She was taking items to the Rady Children's Hospital for Jonah while he stayed with Max. She told Mary to let their mother know that she would call her on her way to the hospital and she would be texting throughout the day.

I think to the family's point, if you're planning to take your own life, you don't plan for tomorrow.

In 2022, the family submitted a formal petition to the San Diego Medical Examiner's Office. They couldn't sue the Shack nies, but they could still push for the official ruling to be corrected. After staff pathologist and medical examiner who originally worked on the case reviewed it again, Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Stephen Campman responded in September of 2023. In his letter, he said, after reviewing the totality of the evidence, the conclusion has not changed.

So now, two reviews, same answer. Officially still suicide.

I gotta admit, this would be a very frustrating place to be in if I were involved in Rebecca's family. It would be absolutely frustrating. In March of 2025, Mary released a book called Unraveling the Knots. Nearly 300 pages, 25 chapters, autopsy reports, court transcripts, never before seen photos. And in it, she accuses the San Diego County Sheriff's Department of corruption and lays out specific evidence she believes was ignored.

So one example, Mary says there's a partial male fingerprint that was never fully pursued with today's technology. She wants it retested.

In the book, she also mentions a dryer sheet, which is really interesting because they never bring it up in any evidence that was collected. Dryer sheets are sometimes used to remove fingerprints.

And the fact that we even as a culture, know that dryer sheets get used to wipe down prints is just one of those true crime brain things that we all have, right?

Once you learn that it's something that you just can't unlearn, and the second you hear it, you start asking, why was there a loose dryer sheet in a guest bedroom? I mean, I guess when I'm doing laundry, sometimes the laundry sheet Goes like flying under the bed, but still.

So dryer sheets leave chemical residue and synthetic fibers. If a scene's been wiped down with one, you'd expect to see signs of that, which would be evidence of someone cleaning the scene on purpose.

My guess on whether investigators tested for any of that back in 2011, probably not. And I don't want to give too much of the book away, but she even describes a new witness who came forward in 2023 who heard argumentative commotion coming from the mansion that night. It's really a book that you should totally check out now. Mary is not the only person pushing. Back in 2021, investigative journalist Caitlin Rother published Death on Ocean Boulevard inside the Coronado Mansion case. Rother spent roughly a decade on the case. Eight separate two hour interviews with Jonah Shaknai, and she told NBC 7 that she couldn't definitively say whether Rebecca's death was a suicide or a murder. But she did publicly conclude the scene was staged, either as a suicide meant to look like a murder or a murder meant to look like a suicide. So at this point, you've got a surviving sister with a book, an independent journalist with a book, the original civil jury that found Adam responsible before the verdict was vacated, and Max's mother separately disputing the accident, ruling on her son.

And that's a lot of serious people asking the same questions. For over a decade now, even with

the civil settlement, Mary has said that her family has never cared about the money. They knew it wouldn't bring Rebecca back. What she wants from Adam Shakni is a confession. She has said publicly that confessing would give him peace, give him forgiveness, and give her family closure from the system. She wants two things. She wants the medical examiner to at least change the manner of death to undetermined. And she wants the current sheriff to hand the case over to the FBI or another agency for a full independent investigation.

A recent statement from the sheriff's office said their sympathies continue to go out to everyone affected by Rebecca's passing. And at this time, there's no new information that would lead them to reopen.

The family is still actively pursuing legal action. This is a difficult case to take in. I mean, there's so many different moving parts. Rebecca's death, Max's death, two families, two rulings, same mansion, two days apart. There's a lot here. If you want to support the fight for Rebecca to receive a fair investigation, make sure you follow the justice for Rebecca Zaha Facebook page. There's lots of information on there and check out Mary's book, Unraveling the Knots. It's available on Amazon and at Barnes and Noble. We encourage you to read it, hear Mary's story directly, and if you want a journalist's deep dive alongside the family's account, Caitlin Rother's death on Ocean Boulevard is also out there. But for now, thank you so much for listening to Crime Salad. This is the completion and part two of the Rebecca Zaha case. Thank you so much for listening. We will see you next time.

[Mandy]

For eight years, we've been asking the same question over and over again. How did this happen? My name's Mandy.

[Melissa]

And I'm Melissa. And we're the hosts of Moms and Mysteries, the true crime podcast. With over 55 million downloads, we're two

[Mandy]

Florida moms who are obsessed with mysteries. Each week we do deep dives into fascinating true crime stories.

[Melissa]

We cover everything from infamous cases like

[Mandy]

Casey Anthony to the bizarre and complex crimes right here in our home state, like the shocking murder of FSU professor Dan Markel.

[Melissa]

We bring you the facts, but with warmth and width you'd only get from two friends who have been hooked on mysteries since childhood.

[Mandy]

Join us for new episodes of Moms and Mysteries every Tuesday and Thursday.

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Listen to Moms and Mysteries on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Narrator/Promoter]

The world of Sonic the Hedgehog has been thrust into a not so dark, not so stormy, hard boiled detective story that probably nobody saw coming. Follow Sonic and the intrepid Chaotix Detective Agency as they take on their biggest case yet. This high flying, action packed adventure will take them across the world, fighting for every clue they can. It's one heck of a tale. Which is good because this story might be the only thing that can save their lives. Well, if that's all, I can just dispose of you.

[Joey Taranto]

Wait, what

[Narrator/Promoter]

all will be revealed in Sonic the Hedgehog Presents the Chaotix Case Files list. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts

[Ricky]

when the Chaotics are on the case.

[Ellen Marsh]

Oh, please, not that music. That music gives me nightmares from my childhood.

[Joey Taranto]

Could we get something a little bit lighter? Some lighter music here?

[Ellen Marsh]

Are you a fan of true crime TV shows?

[Joey Taranto]

And what about Unsolved Mysteries, the show that jump started all of our love of true crime?

[Ellen Marsh]

I'm Ellen Marsh.

[Joey Taranto]

And I'm Joey Taranto.

[Ellen Marsh]

And we host, I think Not. A true crime comedy podcast covering some of the wildest stories from your favorite true crime campy TV shows all the way to Unsolved Mysteries.

[Joey Taranto]

Baby, you will laugh, you will cry. You'll think about true crime in a whole new way. And you'll also ask yourself, who gave these people mics?

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New episodes of I Think not are released every Wednesday, with bonus episodes out every Thursday on Patreon.

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And every Monday, you can listen to our Trip True Crime Rundown, where we go over the top true crime headlines of the week.

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So come and join us wherever you listen to your podcasts.