The Mysterious Death of Deborah Waggoner: South Greensburg’s 1990 Unsolved Homicide

Summary

Crime Salad Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: Crime Salad
Episode: The Mysterious Death of Deborah Waggoner: South Greensburg’s 1990 Unsolved Homicide
Air Date: August 25, 2025
Hosts: Ashley & Ricky

---

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode delves into the 1990 unsolved murder of Deborah June Waggoner, a 25-year-old fast-food manager from South Greensburg, Pennsylvania. Ashley and Ricky methodically unpack the events of that fateful evening, the challenges of the investigation, the lasting impact on the Greensburg community, and the ongoing frustration and hope for closure decades later. The episode not only reconstructs the case but also highlights the human cost of unsolved crimes and the evolving role of DNA technology in cold case investigations.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene & Background

• Greensburg, PA:

  • A small town (~16,000 people in 1990), notable for its close-knit feel and history of high-profile crime (notably, the Greensburg Six in 2010).
  • Ashley: “It’s a courthouse town with a Main street feel. The kind of place where weeknights are quiet and you recognize the same faces at the same diners.” (00:44)

• Deborah Waggoner:

  • 25, fast food manager, lived with her boyfriend Charles Stater and his mother.
  • Very little public information about her life, dreams, or personality—known primarily through her tragic death.
  • Ricky: “It’s important to give a glimpse of who she was. But in this case, she’s just a victim. And that’s really sad.” (03:12)

2. The Night of the Murder

• April 17, 1990: Deborah left home around 7pm to clean her car at the nearby coin-operated Carbon Car Wash, promising to also pick up cigarettes for Charles.

• She never returned. (03:33)

• Early next morning (April 18), officer David Null, during a routine patrol, found Deborah deceased in her green 1976 Chevrolet Malibu parked at the car wash.

• Official time of death: pronounced at 6:30am. Cause: strangulation/asphyxiation with her own sweater. (05:36)

  Ashley: “She had fought hard against her attacker, using every ounce of strength she had to save her own life. And the coroner was able to collect skin scrapings from underneath her fingernails.” (08:11)

• Key factors:

  • No sign of sexual assault or robbery.
  • No forced entry or disturbance; police believed Deborah likely knew her attacker or met them there.

3. Investigation Efforts & Obstacles

• Initial Steps:

  • Interviews began with Tom Plevik, the car wash custodian, who saw Deborah alone around closing (before 8pm). He noticed nothing suspicious (09:43).

  Ricky: “You have to wonder if the attacker was already there, maybe waiting for Tom to leave so Deborah would be alone, or could he have pulled in right after?” (10:27)

• Scrutiny of Inner Circle:

  • Boyfriend Charles Stater was extensively questioned and cleared after passing a polygraph.
  • “Everyone had an alibi, and not a single person had anything negative to say about her.” (16:17)
  • More than 150 people interviewed in two months; by August, another 100+ were questioned—yet zero viable leads. (17:49, 18:19)

• Anonymous Tips & Letters:

  • An anonymous letter with unreleased details arrived but led nowhere (19:22).
  • A 1992 anonymous female caller provided some similar info but disappeared (20:55).

• Ongoing Community Pain:

  • Despite exhaustive police work and public pleas (including Crime Stoppers rewards), every new lead fizzled out. The case officially went cold in 2000. (22:35)

4. Family and Community Responses

• Deborah’s mother, Rebecca, repeatedly expressed confusion and heartbreak, unable to imagine who would want to harm her daughter.

• Friend Tony Fumara, in 2021, created a Facebook page to keep Deborah’s case alive, which sparked a new anonymous tip regarding a confession tied to someone’s boyfriend. (24:40)

  Ashley: “After three decades, Facebook is what brought this new information to light.” (25:35)

• Despite hopeful moments, these leads fizzled out as well, with tipsters maintaining anonymity and no actionable new evidence.

5. DNA Evidence & the Modern Hope

• In 2021, investigators announced that DNA from under Deborah’s fingernails, preserved since 1990, could now potentially be tested thanks to advances in forensic technology. (29:41)

  Ashley: “Now, with modern advancements in forensic testing, there was a real possibility that Deborah’s killer could be identified by the very evidence she fought to leave behind.” (30:13)

• However:

  • Delays due to lab backlogs and the need for a comparative sample.
  • Confusion over potential funding issues; police deny money is preventing testing, but lab capacity and strategic evidence use remain real constraints. (31:11–33:28)
  • Police have collected 50 pieces of evidence and interviewed more than 200 people but still have no viable suspects.

• Family members, particularly Kathy Wagner (sister-in-law), express increasing frustration with the lack of progress and transparency.

  Kathy (via Ashley): “I was like, wait a minute, this is a homicide. How can you not send DNA if you have it?” (31:41)
  “We just want answers. I would like to put everyone at rest.” (33:58)

6. Recent Developments & Lingering Questions

• As of April 2025, a new $5,000 Pennsylvania State Police Tips reward is announced to spur new information. (36:51)

• Ongoing local speculation includes:

  • Suspicion about Charles Stater’s actions the night Deborah disappeared.
  • Scrutiny of Tom Plevik, the custodian.
  • Interest in the unnamed “boyfriend” implicated in the Facebook tip.
  • However, hosts emphasize that “speculation is not evidence."

  Ricky: “Suspicion. It’s not evidence. … Unless investigators had something solid to tie them to the crime, they’re just another name.” (37:32)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ashley:
  “The kind of story where the truth seems to be just below the surface, but it slips away whenever someone gets close to it.” (00:15)

• Ricky:
  “Strangling someone with their own sweater. I mean, that’s not something that you would do on impulse without … some type of emotion behind it.” (08:29)

• Ashley:
  “It seems pretty clear that this wasn’t a random killing or simply a drug deal gone wrong. … She hadn’t been robbed and she hadn’t been sexually assaulted. It seemed completely senseless, yet very personal.” (08:51)

• Kathy Wagner:
  “Something needs to be done. Really? Answers. We just want answers. I would like to put everyone at rest.” (33:58)

---

Important Timestamps

• Background & Greensburg Crime History:

  • 00:44 – 03:33

• Timeline of Deborah’s Disappearance & Crime Scene:

  • 03:33 – 08:29

• Crime Scene Details & Investigation Beginnings:

  • 08:29 – 11:13

• Discussion of Family/Inner Circle & Community Reaction:

  • 14:05 – 19:23

• Anonymous Letters and Leads:

  • 18:19 – 21:36

• Case Stalls, Goes Cold, and Family Frustrations:

  • 22:35 – 24:40

• Facebook Tip & New Wave of Leads:

  • 24:40 – 29:00

• DNA Evidence and Investigation Challenges:

  • 29:41 – 33:28

• Current Status and Speculation:

  • 33:58 – 38:06

---

Conclusion

Ashley and Ricky’s thoughtful, empathetic retelling of the Deborah Waggoner case lays bare both the human cost of unsolved murder and the detective work that persists across decades. They blend factual precision with emotional resonance, amplifying the voices of a family and community who refuse to let Deborah’s story fade.

While the promise of DNA analysis offers hope, the real breakthrough likely remains in the hands of someone still hesitant or afraid to come forward. Both hosts consistently encourage listeners to speak up if they have any information—no matter how minor—and to help keep Deborah’s memory alive.

For tips or information, listeners can contact:

• PSP Tips: 800-472-8477
• Email: psptipsemailmail.com
• Facebook: Pennsylvania State Police Tips page

---

If you appreciate the detailed investigative approach, please consider sharing this episode or visiting crimesaladpodcast.com to support the show.

Transcript

[A]

Some cases shake a small town in ways that time doesn't seem to fix. The kind of cases that don't just leave behind a crime scene, but doubt, fear, and questions that no one seems to have the answers to. It's the kind of story where the truth seems to be just below the surface, but it slips away whenever someone gets close to it. This is a case full of close calls, anonymous voices, and physical evidence that was there, but ahead of its time. And the worst part of all is the 35 years of silence that would follow the brutal end to a woman's life and remain unsolved. This is the story of Deborah Wagoner. I'm Ashley.

[B]

And I'm Ricky.

[A]

And this is crime salad. Greensburg, Pennsylvania. It sits in Westmoreland county, about 30 miles southeast of Pittsburgh. It's a courthouse town with a Main street feel. The kind of place where weeknights are quiet and you recognize the same faces at the same diners. Today it has a population of about 15,000 people. Back in 1990, when Deborah's case began, the city was only a little bigger at roughly 16,000 people. It's a place where a quiet evening is normal and anything that breaks the pattern lingers. Now, some of those listening might recognize Greensburg from the Greensburg Six. This case was about the 2010 murder of Jennifer Dougherty that drew national attention. A 30 year old woman with intellectual disabilities who was torturously murdered by not one assailant, but six. It's a case that still defines the city in a lot of people's minds.

[B]

That case is crazy. The details are so upsetting. And you're right, that story definitely defines Greensburg. And I think most people only know that town because of the Greensburg Six.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, that case, it shocked a lot of people and it was so personal and drawn out. So be sure to subscribe to Crime Salad because next week we will be diving into that story. But anyway, that's how the story kind of put Greensburg on the map in the true crime world. But before that all happened, Greensburg was already carrying a different unanswered story. The unsolved 1990 killing of Deborah Wagoner. That earlier case never left the community's memory, even as the Greensburg Six dominated the news years later. So let's talk about Deborah. Now. When you search for Deborah June Wagoner, what you find is facts about her death, not so much her life. That's part of the heartbreak of this case. She was a 25 year old fast food manager from South Greensburg Juggling work in the everyday quiet moments of small living. But who she was, her dreams, favorite song, personality, none of that made it to public information outlets. All we really have is that she lived with her boyfriend and his mother.

[B]

And that's so frustrating because you want to feel like you know her before you hear what happened. It gives you something to hold on to. And all we really get are these scraps of information from police reports. And I think it's important to give a glimpse of who she was. But in this case, she's just a victim. And that's really sad.

[A]

Exactly. And that's why it's so important to say even the few pieces that we do know before we walk through the night, that everything changed. Because once you see the timeline, the decisions she made, where she went and when, you start to understand how quickly an ordinary night turned into something no one saw coming. On the night of April 17th in 1990, Deborah had what seemed like an ordinary plan. Around 7pm she left her South Greensburg home in her faded green 1976 Chevrolet Malibu and she told her boyfriend, Charles Stater, that she was headed to the nearby Coyne Operated Carbon Car Wash to clean her car. It was very close by, so Charles didn't expect her to be gone for more than an hour. Before she left, he asked her to grab a pack of cigarettes on her way home and she agreed. That was the last time anyone saw Debra alive. Hours passed, and by the early morning of April 18, the streets of Hempfield Township were quiet under the cold frost of dawn. Greensburg police officer David Null was on his routine patrol when he turned into the lot of the Carbon Car Wash. Not because of a call or anything like that, but simply just to turn around. The business had closed the night before at 8pm and wouldn't be open again until later that morning. Which is why the sight of a faded green Malibu parked near the vacuum cleaner caught his attention. Curious, Noel pulled up alongside the car and peered through the glass. And what he saw was horrifying. Inside, lying between the front and back seats, was a woman, motionless. Noel immediately radioed for backup. When officers arrived, they quickly realized the scene was not a medical emergency. It was a crime scene. Deputy Coroner Dennis Johns pronounced the woman dead at 6:30am and she was identified as 25 year old Deborah Wagoner, who appeared to have been strangled.

[B]

And what's weird about this is there was nothing unusual about what she was doing. Washing your car, picking up cigarettes for your boyfriend. She's probably ran that errand a hundred times before, without even thinking twice. And then all of a sudden, she's just found like this. But car washes, gas stations, and even laundromats, they can be some of the most dangerous places for women, Especially late at night. You're focused on your task, your guard is down, and then most of the time, you're alone. Add in the fact that these places are usually poorly lit or tucked away, and you've got the perfect setup for someone with bad intentions.

[A]

And the spot that Debra went to that night, it was exactly this kind of place. It was familiar, convenient, but isolated. It was the Carbon Car Wash, just off Carbon Road in Hemphill Township, Pennsylvania. The car wash was about a five minute drive from Deborah's house, and locals, they knew it. Well, one person who grew up in the area and actually put us onto this story told us that they would even hang out there as a teenager, killing time with friends. It was an ordinary neighborhood landmark that Deborah probably visited all the time. So when something like this happened, everyone was shocked and confused that something so gruesome would happen here.

[B]

Yeah, and in small towns like this, I'm sure everyone started to speculate, trying to come up with a reason why something like this would happen.

[A]

And that's exactly what happened here. There's been speculation over the years that Deborah might have had a history of. Of drug use or frequent romantic encounters that could have played a role in her death. But when you look at statements from her friends and her family, there's nothing to back that up. No one who actually knew her had anything negative to say. In their eyes, Deborah didn't have any enemies. And she certainly wasn't involved in anything that would explain a crime like this.

[B]

And even if those rumors had been true, and there's nothing to say that they were, the details of this crime don't match what you would expect from something like a drug deal going gone bad or a robbery. This wasn't quick, it was brutal.

[A]

Exactly. So let's get into those details. An autopsy determined that the cause of death was asphyxiation from ligature compression to the neck. Which means someone had used an object rather than their hands to strangle Debra. But that was just the surface of the horror of what happened to this woman. The results showed that Debra had been strangled to death with her own sweater.

[B]

Jeez.

[A]

She had fought hard against her attacker, using every ounce of strength she had to save her own life. And the coroner was able to collect skin scrapings from underneath her fingernails. Proof that she had scratched her attacker in those final Moments in an attempt to defend herself.

[B]

Wow. And that's pretty personal. Strangling someone with their own sweater. I mean, that's not something that you would do on impulse without, you know, some type of emotion behind it. And then you've got scratches that are deep enough for investigators to get skin from under her nails. That means whoever did this is probably walking around with visible marks on them.

[A]

Right. It seems pretty clear that this wasn't a random killing or simply a drug deal gone wrong. Investigators couldn't figure out why this happened to Debra. She hadn't been robbed and she hadn't been sexually assaulted. It seemed completely senseless, yet very personal. And because there was no sign of forced entry or damage to Debra's car, investigators believed that she knew her attacker or maybe had even met them there at the car wash.

[B]

There was a story behind it that they had to piece together to find out what happened. And at the scene, troopers carefully removed articles of clothing and magazines from Debra's car, documenting every piece of potential evidence. They combed through the entire car wash, hoping to find any witnesses who might have seen what happened, or at least anything unusual leading up to it.

[A]

And one of the first people they spoke to was Tom Plevik, a custodian at the car wash. Tom told detectives that Debra had arrived shortly before 8pm the night before. Just as he was getting ready to close up for the night, he saw her using one of the coin operated vacuum cleaners, tidying up the inside of her car. And since it was near closing time, Deborah told Tom that she would be finishing up shortly. Tom remembered nothing out of the ordinary about the encounter, and Deborah was alone the entire time. Now, based on his statement and the fact that Deborah's car was still in the exact same spot where she was found, police believed that she must have been attacked very shortly after speaking with Tom.

[B]

And I know Tom said that nothing seemed out of the ordinary, but you have to wonder if the attacker was already there, maybe waiting for Tom to leave so Deborah would be alone, or could he have pulled in right after he walked away? If she was attacked that quickly, it almost feels like somebody was ready for that moment.

[A]

Yeah. And you're saying what? A lot of people from the public are speculating about this part of the case, and we'll talk more about those speculations later. But the facts of the case so far didn't really lead police anywhere. With little else to go on, they turned their attention to the people who knew Debra the most, starting with her friends and her family.

[C]

You know, what doesn't belong in your epic summer plans? Getting burned by your old wireless bill. While you're planning beach trips, barbecues and three day weekends, your wireless bills should.

[A]

Be the last thing holding you back.

[C]

That's why we made the switch to Mint Mobile.

[D]

With Mint, you get the same reliable coverage and speed you're used to, but for way less money. And right now, for a limited time, Mint mobile is offering three months of unlimited premium wireless service for just 15 bucks a month while your friends are sweating over data, overages and surprise charges. And you'll be chilling, literally and financially.

[A]

I can tell you firsthand, switching to.

[C]

Mint has been one of the easiest and smartest moves.

[A]

The service quality stacks up to our.

[C]

Old phone provider, but the savings, they're huge. Honestly, we use this and you should too. Say bye to the overpriced wireless plans and those jaw dropping bills. Every plan comes with high speed data and unlimited talk and text on the nation's largest 5G network. You can even keep your old phone, your old number and all your contacts. So this year, skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get your new customer offer three months of unlimited wireless for just $15 a month at mintmobile.com Crimesalad that's mintmobile.com Crimesalad upfront payment of $45 required equivalent to $15 a month limited time new customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 GB on unlimited plan. Taxes are extra. CMINT Mobile for details. You know, we spend so much time worrying about our face serums, moisturizers, spf. But lately I realized what about my neck? Especially in the summer when you're living in sundresses and tank tops and that area is on full display. GoPure's formula is powered by clinically proven active ingredients designed specifically for that delicate area. In as little as four to eight weeks you can see firmer, smoother and more youthful looking skin just in time for summer. And the best part, GoPure products are cruelty free, paraben free and sulfate free, clean effective skin care that actually feels good to use.

[D]

They've got a full line of retinol moisturizers, body creams, and all kinds of science backed skincare.

[C]

Yep, and GoPure really over delivers on value. Over 100,000 women have shared their real results and with over 1 million jars soldiers, this beauty secret isn't much of a secret anymore. And right now, Crime Salad listeners get an exclusive 25% off at checkout. Just head to GoPureBeauty.com and use our Code Crime Salad and get the summer glow up you deserve. That's 25% off with code crime salad@gopure.

[D]

Beauty.Com when they ask you where you heard about Gopure, tell them you heard about it from Crime Salad.

[A]

Think of a crime that's making headlines right now. Do you think people will still be talking about it in 20 years? What about 120? A lot of cases that once dominated the news fade from memory, even the ones that changed laws, shifted public opinion, or were called the crime of the century at the time. And those are exactly the kinds of stories journalist Amber Hunt dives into on her podcast, Crimes of the Centuries. And some of the cases might ring a bell, like the Lindbergh baby kidnapping. But maybe you don't know all the details. Others you've likely never even heard of at all, like the case that helped end the death penalty in Great Britain or the first wrongful conviction in the US Ever overturned by DNA evidence. Amber's not just any journalist. She's a Pulitzer Prize winner who focuses less on the sensational stuff and more on the people involved, how the investigations unfolded, and why these cases still matter today. Follow Crimes of the Centuries wherever you get your podcasts and check out centuriespod.com for more. Her loved ones were devastated. Her mother, Rebecca, told reporters that she couldn't understand why anyone would want to hurt her friendly, easygoing daughter. Deborah had gotten along with everyone. No problems, no grudges, nothing that would make sense of a murder. The idea that someone could have wanted to kill her was completely unfathomable to Rebecca, and it made the crime feel even more senseless. Now for her boyfriend, Charles, he was equally as shocked by the crime. He told investigators he had sent her out that night to wash her car and grab cigarettes, and she just never came back. He said he never imagined her absence was because of a brutal attack like this. Now, naturally, police questioned that reaction, and.

[B]

I'm sure everyone else did, too. If she was only supposed to be gone for an hour, I mean, why didn't he go looking for her or call 911 if she never came back? And in so many cases like this, the significant other is always the first person that police look into.

[A]

Yeah, so Charles, he was definitely put under the microscope by the police until they checked every box. But any suspicion of Charles was quickly put to rest. He cooperated fully, even agreeing to take a polygraph test, which he passed. So they questioned everyone connected to Deborah. Friends, co workers, neighbors, even casual acquaintances. But the story was Always the same. Everyone had an alibi, and not a single person had anything negative to say about her. There were no hidden grudges, no unresolved conflicts, nothing in her personal life that pointed to a motive. With nowhere left to turn within Deborah's circle, the investigators widened their focus. Pennsylvania State Police Lt. Ronald Hackenberg, head of Major Crimes in Greensburg, issued a public plea. If anyone had seen Debra on Wednesday night or early Thursday morning, they were urged to contact police immediately. In the two months that followed Debra's sudden and brutal death, investigators spoke to more than 150 people. Family, friends, witnesses, anyone who might have been in that area. But despite the effort, there wasn't a single viable lead. No suspicious sightings, no names to chase, no theory that fit the evidence. Officials continued to make public appeals, asking for tips or even the smallest detail that could connect the dots. But nothing brought them close to understanding who killed Deborah Wagner or even why.

[B]

You have to think about the manpower it took to cast such a huge net. Talking to over 150 people and still nothing. Like, that's crazy. And for a case like this, it means that the killer either got incredibly lucky or they knew exactly how to disappear after it happened. You would think that in such a small circle, it would be easy to trace the story back to the source. I mean, there's so much overlap and everyone kind of knows each other, right?

[A]

And the momentum, it didn't stop. This was such a brutal attack, and whoever did it couldn't have just disappeared that easily. Easily. So By August of 1990, investigators had spoken to another hundred people in connection with Deborah's murder. The search had stretched far beyond Greensburg, through all of Westmoreland county and even into neighboring Allegheny County. But the results were the same. A few new tips, each one ending in another dead end. The case was barely four months old, but detectives could already feel it starting to cool. Leads were drying up. Questions were piling higher than answers, and there wasn't much left to turn to. Then something unexpected happened. Pennsylvania State Police announced that they had received an anonymous letter from someone claiming to have information about Debra's case. The letter included certain details that were not shared publicly about what happened to her at the car wash. The kind of details that suggested the writer might actually know something.

[B]

That's big.

[A]

Yeah. This might be the big break that they needed. However, it was short lived. The information in the letter wasn't enough to take police anywhere that they hadn't already been. And the writer left no name, no address, and no way to contact Them. Without that follow up, it was just another mystery in the case.

[B]

Damn, that's so brutal. I mean, finally getting something that feels like a real lead, and then it just slips away. It makes you wonder if they were scared or, you know, knew more than they were willing to say.

[A]

We'll probably never know, unfortunately, because police pleaded with the public again for the person who had sent this letter to come forward with the promise of protecting their identity, but they never heard anything about it again. It definitely makes you think that if someone is sending anonymous letters but is refusing to cooperate further, that something deeper and scarier is going on here. Nothing new surfaced in this case until 1992, more than two years after Debra had been mysteriously attacked and killed at the car wash that year, a woman called the state police in Greensburg, claiming that she had information about Deborah's murder. Detectives immediately jumped onto the lead, hoping that this was finally the break that they'd been waiting for. They worked to corroborate what the caller told them. And while some of her details did help provide a little more context about what might have happened that night, it wasn't enough to bring them closer to an arrest. And then, just like before, the trail went cold. Every time the police seemed to gain new information, it was just out of reach of real answers. Investigators began to believe that people out there, especially this woman, knew more than they were willing to share. They pleaded with her to call back, to revisit some of the details that she had given them, but she never did. And the case stalled again.

[B]

I mean, it's the same situation. They got some details, but not enough to make an arrest or really gain any new evidence at all. So to me, it's kind of like someone's trying to solve the case, but they're still kind of protecting themselves, right? I mean, it's kind of strange, right?

[A]

I mean, the caller could have been the letter writer, and hopefully one day we can find out who that person is. But at this point, if she did know more, she was holding it back. As the years went by, Deborah's loved ones did what they could do to keep her memory alive. Investigators gathered every detail they could, from questioning those closest to her to chasing hundreds of leads across multiple counties. But none of it ever led to hard evidence. Ten years later, in April of 2000, the case was officially considered cold. Files still sat in the Pennsylvania state police office in Greensburg, thick with interviews and dead end tips. In Greensburg, people still remembered what happened to Debra, the young woman who never came home from a routine Night at the car wash. And they still wanted answers. But just like her family, they were left with nothing but questions in the hope that someday someone would talk.

[B]

And it's crazy that no one really knows enough. I mean, someone's gotta know something, right?

[A]

I mean, Greensburg, it's not like this huge town, but where this happened in carbon, Pennsylvania, it's an even smaller area.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

And like you said, there's a lot of overlap in towns like this. Everyone kind of knows everyone. You go to the grocery store, and you see the same familiar faces, and there's a pretty good chance that you're going to run into someone that you know. Now, it did seem like the investigators, they were doing everything they could do to solve this case, Especially compared to what we've seen with other police offices and how they handle cases. But Deborah's family, they couldn't help feeling shut out. And they would say that they heard very little from the police since Deborah's murder, and it left them wondering if they were still looking for answers and fighting for her. So In April of 2000, Pennsylvania Crime Stoppers announced a $2,000 reward for anyone with information that could lead to an arrest. Her case may have been cold, but the people who wanted answers, they hadn't given up. That reward brought in a fresh wave of new leads to the state police in Greensburg. But once again, every single one of them fizzled out. And then came a long silence. Two more decades passed. Friends and family of Deborah Wagner were left trying to cope with the fact that the brutal murder of someone so significant in their lives remained unsolved. With no arrest, no suspects, and not even a shred of new evidence, the case would no longer just go cold. It was ice cold. And with every year that went by, it became harder and harder to hold on to momentum, to keep her story alive when the trail had been frozen in place for so long.

[B]

And I can't even imagine what that felt like for her family. I mean, watching years turn into decades with no answers. And then $2,000 in reward might have sounded like something back then. But that's not much for somebody to risk coming forward if they were scared into hiding the truth.

[A]

Well, one person that wasn't afraid to speak out was one of Debra's friends from middle school, Tony Fumara. She created a Facebook page dedicated to Debra's memory and to search for justice, A way to remind the community that her killer had never been found. And by 2021, that page finally stirred up something new. An anonymous Facebook user reached out to Tony claiming to have new information about Debra's case. This person explained that shortly after Debra was killed, a friend of his had come to him in tears, saying that her own boyfriend had killed Deborah. According to the Facebook user, this friend was crying, completely distraught, repeating, I don't know what I am going to do. At the time, he was only a teenager hearing this, and he admitted to Tony that he had no idea what to do with this information that he was getting.

[B]

Wow. And after 30 years, Facebook is what brought this new information to light.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Thanks, Zuckerberg. And the thing that sticks out to me the most is just like the letter and that anonymous caller, this person also wanted to stay anonymous. I don't know, it just seems a little suspicious to me that every time someone claims to know something, they don't want their name attached to it.

[A]

It's really weird. And the fact that everyone seems to be so hesitant to share the truth about what they know, it's so strange. But apparently, the Facebook user hadn't just kept this information to himself back then. He actually told Tony that after hearing his friend's emotional confession all those years ago, he shared this information with his mother, and she reassured him that she would take care of it. And he assumed that she would be reaching out to the police, Comforted by the idea that the adult had stepped in and the police would be made aware. He put this murder confession out of his mind. According to him, for decades, he assumed that the situation had been handled. And it wasn't until years later, when he happened to come across Tony's Facebook page, that he realized Debra's murder had never been solved. He started to suspect that the information that he told his mother had never been passed on to investigators. And he knew he had to reach out to Tony. And so Tony encouraged him to contact the state police himself and share what he remembered. And he did.

[B]

So, okay, what if this guy's mom is the same person that sent that anonymous letter back in 1990? Or even the woman who called the police in 92? Or, I mean, it could have even been the friend that confessed to him that sent the letter or even called. We know from the news reports that the caller in 1992 was a woman. So in my mind, maybe, yeah, I.

[A]

Mean, that could definitely be the case. But we also know that the letter and the phone call never went anywhere. I mean, I want to know what happened there. Was it dismissed, hearsay, Buried under the flood of other tips, or just not enough to act on it at the time? It's hard to know since we don't have any documents from the official investigation. But police handled this just like they did all the other leads they gained over the years. According to them, news outlets eventually got wind of this Facebook exchange and reached out to the anonymous user directly. In a phone interview, he repeated the same account. Tony had shared that shortly after Debra's murder, a friend confided in him, saying that her boyfriend had killed the girl at the car wash. He also explained that after reconnecting with Tony, he did exactly what she encouraged him to do. He spoke at length with an investigator from the state police in Greensburg, but after that conversation, he never heard back. Once again, it seemed like a promising lead had surfaced, only to fade into silence.

[B]

And that's where you start to wonder about the follow through. And I'm not going to knock investigators, I'm sure they've been over every inch of this case. But if this guy sat down with them and gave them a full account, why wasn't there some type of update? Even just a. We looked into it, and here's what we found. I mean, from the outside, it feels like every time a new lead shows up just vanishes into some black hole.

[A]

I mean, one thing that I could think of is that it's been so many years, and it's just like kind of a hearsay situation. Like, well, years ago, this is what I heard.

[B]

Well, I mean, after decades, I'd assume that everyone who even worked on this case, I mean, they're starting to retire or, you know, gone. In general, it's like the passion fades, right?

[A]

Exactly. And that's how everyone else was starting to feel. But in November of 2021, more than three decades after Debra's murder, investigators finally had something new to share. They explained that they had gathered potential DNA evidence in the case. The skin found under Deborah's fingernails, Do you remember that?

[B]

I do.

[A]

Back in 1990. Well, DNA technology, it was in its infancy. Those scrapings were collected, but they didn't mean much at the time. Fast forward 31 years, and the story had changed. Now, with modern advancements in forensic testing, there was a real possibility that Deborah's killer could be identified by the very evidence she fought to leave behind in those last moments of her life. It's just incredible that investigators preserved that DNA after all of these years.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, if they didn't, we wouldn't even have a chance at solving this case.

[A]

Exactly. But even with this preserved DNA, investigators, they stressed that it wasn't a silver bullet. Steve Lamani the state police public information officer, explained that they still needed help from the public, from someone who knows something about what happened to Debra. He said that the person responsible could very well still be alive and they deserve to be brought to justice. But in order to do that, police would need another DNA sample to compare against what was recovered under Deborah's fingernails.

[B]

And at this point, you kind of have to circle back to that Facebook guy, you know, the mysterious girl's boyfriend who killed Deborah in the parking lot. I mean, the police say they need the public's help, but how do you not start there, right? I mean, start with the people that you already know, the people that you've implicated, Right?

[A]

And that's the frustrating part. We don't even know who that boyfriend was. The anonymous Facebook user never named him. And the woman who supposedly made that claim has never come forward herself. I mean, without names, investigators, they can't just pull DNA to compare. And we don't know whether police ever questioned this woman or her boyfriend. And we don't really know where that accusation ever went. So while it sounds like a major lead, it's still stuck in the same cycle, an allegation with no way to verify it unless someone is willing to step out of the shadows. But there's still confusion about what's actually holding up the investigation. So according to Debra's sister in law, Kathy Wagner, investigators told her in February of 2023 that they were still waiting on grant money before they could send the DNA samples out, out for testing. And Kathy later shared her reaction with reporters. And it's one that really just sticks with you, she said. I was like, wait a minute, this is a homicide. How can you not send DNA if you have it? If you have it, why can't you send it? And you got to think. For a family that's waited for more than three decades for answers, hearing that finances might be standing between them and potential justice was almost impossible to understand. But the police, they pushed back on that idea. Steve Lamani disputed the claim that funding was holding things up. He told reporters, we're able to get money if we have stuff to send out. In his words, if they believe a piece of evidence has the potential to close the case with DNA testing, paying for it is just a no brainer. Instead, Lamani emphasized two different challenges. First, they needed more information to collect comparable DNA samples. And second, crime lab backlogs can delay results for years even after samples are submitted. He also mentioned that they only have so much evidence that they can test, so they Want to make sure that they have a good reason to test that DNA, since it's the only solid lead they have. He also reminded the public that investigators haven't been idle. So over the years, they've collected 50 pieces of evidence and interviewed more than 200 people, all in pursuit of Debra's killer.

[B]

I don't doubt that investigators have put in work 200 people in 50 pieces of evidence is no small thing. But at the same time, it's hard not to side with the family here. This is a homicide. It feels pressing, urgent. So how do backlogs get in the way of that? If there's DNA that could point to her killer that police say is likely still alive and walking around free, why isn't that on top of the pile? I mean, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[A]

But the truth is as upsetting as it can be. Cold case investigations almost always take a backseat to current, or what police call warm investigations. That means testing evidence from decades old cases isn't dealt with the same urgency as cases that are unfolding right now. So even if they do send something out, I mean, it can sit there for years before results come back. And saying that out loud, it feels so wrong. Because to Debra's family, this case is just as urgent today as it was in 1990. But Deborah's family and friends, they still hold on to hope that one day they'll finally have answers. Tony, the friend who created the Facebook page to keep Debra's memory alive, told reporters that she knows Debbie didn't deserve this and that whoever did it needs to pay for what they did. Now, 35 years later, everything rests on DNA. Will the scrapings Debra left behind be the key to unlocking this case? Or will they sit in the backlog of a system that hasn't yet given her justice? For Kathy Wagner, Debra's sister in law, the wait has been exhausting. She told reporters something needs to be done. Really? Answers. We just want answers. I would like to put everyone at rest. And that's where this case stands today. As of today, there's been a couple new updates, but nothing damning. As of April 18th of this year, 2025, there's a new push for answers. Pennsylvania State Police Tips, a program within the law enforcement agency in Pennsylvania that is dedicating to solving crimes across the State, announced a $5,000 reward for information that could finally solve Deborah's case. It's a way of reminding the public that after 35 years, investigators haven't given up and justice for Deborah Wagoner is still possible. But it's strange because Deborah's case hasn't seen the kind of attention that you might expect. There hasn't been much coverage from podcasters or even the media. Most of what we know comes from local reporting over the years. And there's some public speculation in response to these reports. One of the most common is about Debra's boyfriend at the time, Charles Stater. People wonder why he didn't immediately go to the car wash when Debra hadn't come back within a reasonable amount of time. After all, it was only a five minute drive from their house. I mean, if Charles would have gone to check on her, he would have found her car sitting right there by the vacuum cleaner. Others say that there isn't a lot of information about Debra's daily life available. And we can't say for sure that Debra wasn't the kind of person who would sometimes meet up with friends or stay out late. If this was a routine for her, it wouldn't have raised alarms if she didn't come home. And we can't fault Charles for something he was used to if that was the case. A few other spectators have pointed fingers at the custodian who spoke with investigators that morning. They wonder how he could have seen Deborah around closing time just before 8, and not question why her car was still sitting there when he finished his closing tasks and went home. To some, that detail just doesn't add up. There are even those who believe his DNA should be compared against the skin found beneath Debra's fingernails. But again, this is all speculation. And it's not enough for police to run a test taking that risk on the small amount of evidence that they do have.

[D]

And don't get me wrong, I get why people would go there. I mean, when you don't have the answers, your mind kind of starts filling in the blanks. And yeah, the custodian being one of the last people to see her alive makes him stand out. But at the same time, suspicion. It's not evidence. And it's easy to say now, decades later, that this DNA should be tested against Charles, against the mysterious boyfriend that supposedly killed Deborah, against a custodian. But unless investigators had something solid to tie them to the crime, they're just another name.

[A]

And that's the reality of a case like this. But for Deborah's family speculation, it doesn't bring them any closer to justice. What they need is evidence that can finally point to the truth. And right now we're not sure what will happen or if anything ever will. All we can do is hope that we'll get one more tip that will lead to the right person. If you have any information about the murder of Deborah Waggoner, no matter how small it may seem, you can reach out to PSP Tips at 800-472-8477. Their email is psptipsemailmail.com or you can visit their Facebook page dedicated to sharing updates and gathering information. Thank you all so much for listening to this week's episode. If you found this story important, please consider sharing it to help keep Debra's name alive. And as always, we would love to hear your thoughts in the comments. What do you think police should do at this point? Also, check out our website. Ricky did an amazing job at putting it together. We added some awesome merch that's available to you help Support the show. Crimesaladpodcast.com Stay safe out there and we'll see you next time.