An Interview with Michelle Hadley

Summary

CRIME SCENE: An Interview with Michelle Hadley
Sony Music Entertainment | July 23, 2026

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Main Theme:

The Michelle Hadley Case—From Victim to Survivor and Advocate

This episode revisits one of the most shocking miscarriages of justice in recent memory: the “Fake Stalker” case, recently revived by the Netflix documentary “A Toxic Love Story.” Host Jonathan Hirsch and reporter Cooper Maul sit down with Michelle Hadley herself, diving deep into her relationship with U.S. Marshal Ian Diaz, her wrongful arrest, and her subsequent exoneration. With candor and resilience, Michelle details both the abuse she suffered and the systemic failures that compounded her ordeal. Above all, the episode is a meditation on survival, justice, and the importance of rewriting your own narrative.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background and Case Recap

• The Setup (04:06)
  • In 2016, in Anaheim, California, Angela Diaz, newly wed to U.S. Marshal Ian Diaz, reports being stalked and attacked—pointing the finger at Ian’s ex, Michelle Hadley.
  • Michelle is arrested amid sensational media coverage: "Media calls her deranged and obsessed. She’s charged with stalking, criminal threats, attempted rape." (02:58 – 05:09)
  • Despite strong physical and digital "evidence," the truth unravels: all signs eventually point to a framing by Ian and Angela. Michelle spends months in jail before being fully exonerated in 2017. Angela pleads guilty and goes to prison; Ian is also later convicted.

2. Meeting Ian Diaz and the Early Relationship

• First Impressions (07:17)
  • Michelle describes Ian’s initial appeal: “He’s a U.S. marshal, a little bit more rigid…so I thought I was getting into something that was safe.” (07:17)
  • He quickly sweeps her off her feet, e.g., a romantic but fast-simmering trip to Disneyland, an annual pass, “No one’s ever done something like this for me.” (09:10)
• Reflecting on Red Flags
  • “Going into that relationship, I didn’t know where the line was…I got a little swept off my feet in those moments.” (09:18 – 09:35)

3. Coercive Control and Abuse

• Early Tactics (12:36)
  • Ian isolates and surveils Michelle, controls her movements, disrupts her sleep, and incrementally erodes her boundaries.
  • “Disrupting my sleep on purpose…abuse was so up and down, and the ups were so high and the downs so low…my nervous system wasn’t just dysregulated—it was blown to smithereens.” (12:36)
  • On surveillance: “He had all my passwords. I didn’t have any of his.” (19:56)
• Isolation & Power Dynamics
  • "There was a pattern of isolation as well…abusers use [tactics] to break you down and take over your whole universe.” (18:10 – 19:08)

4. Leaving the Relationship

• The Risks and Complications (21:26)
  • Michelle repeatedly tries to leave, faces financial ruin, and is threatened with law enforcement.
  • “He was already using his association with law enforcement as a mechanism to control and keep me in the relationship.” (22:41)
  • “Most dangerous time for a victim is the two weeks after she leaves an abusive relationship. That’s when most of the murders happen.” (23:20)

5. The Setup and Imprisonment

• Foreshadowing the Setup (24:47)
  • Ian discusses “Romeos” (sexual assault offenders) with Michelle, then orchestrates her arrest for those same charges.
  • “He told me about Romeos...He asked how I would feel if I was one of them. I told him it would be my worst nightmare...that’s exactly the crime I am charged with.” (24:47 – 25:06)
• Manipulation and Victimization
  • “He took everything he did to me, and he flipped it and said, no, she’s the one doing all this stuff. It's the most horrifying feeling in the world.” (26:31)

6. Surviving Public Scrutiny and Reclaiming Life

• After Exoneration (27:54)
  • Michelle contends with public perception, hyper-scrutiny, and the challenges of returning to a normal life:
    “I had been a very private person before all of this happened…I was out there…massive amounts of articles of me online." (28:26)
  • She describes the slow process of recovery, reframing her public “monster” narrative to empower other survivors.
    “I could actually embrace the power of almost the monster narrative, but flip it…I now turned around and pulled other survivors along with me.” (29:46)

7. Lessons for Survivors and Society

• No ‘Perfect’ Victim
  • “There is no perfect victim…these relationships…are designed to actually make you crack, make you break. If all I do is go out there and say, ‘Oh, I was this perfect victim,’…then I’m setting this unreasonable standard…for other victims.” (10:52 – 11:21)
• On Law Enforcement’s Blind Spots (35:51)
  • “There’s just no education on domestic abuse with law enforcement officers. They don’t understand it; they can’t recognize it.” (37:51)
  • She pressed Anaheim PD with evidence during her ordeal, but “these guys did no investigation on my side whatsoever.” (39:23)

8. Reflections on Angela Diaz’s Role

• “When I think about Angela, I think of her as his pawn…something that he used. Or someone that he used to [hurt me].” (42:45)
• Michelle did not attend Angela’s sentencing: “But I did at Ian’s, though.” (43:44)

9. Healing and Advocacy

• On Moving Forward
  • “I had to really let go of that old version of Michelle. Diamonds are made under pressure…now I’m a warrior and a protector of others.” (31:33)
  • “My fear isn’t—I should rephrase that. Everyone feels fear…but I have an ability now to push through the fear that I didn’t have in the past.” (32:59)

10. Advice for Women & Prevention

• Top Takeaways for Identifying Abuse (47:21)
  • “Slow down the early stages of dating. Abusers thrive in speed…because speed doesn’t give you time to think.” (47:21 – 47:45)
  • Don’t ignore mean jokes that hurt you. “If you don’t feel comfortable setting the boundary…already is enough of a red flag.” (49:34)
  • Watch for early attempts to control—sexual boundaries, appearance, and social isolation. “They’re trying to get control over you and break you down.” (50:16)
  • “These are my top three things that I think are pretty easy to remember…just slowing it down is a huge one.” (51:41)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On coercive relationships:

“Healthy love never requires you to submit to someone else’s control or domination. Every single abusive relationship you look at…is all about gaining control and power over the victim.”
—Michelle Hadley (17:23)

Coping with aftermath:

“I went out there, I was like, I’m going to relaunch my career. I’m going to move…I got to a place where I was able to make peace with it...I now turned around and pulled other survivors along with me.”
—Michelle Hadley (29:46)

On advocacy:

“I’m a warrior and a protector of others. I actually like that version of myself better than the innocent version…Man, you know, like, go after a victim at your own risk, because if I’m on their side, I’m coming for you.”
—Michelle Hadley (32:09)

Direct guidance for listeners:

“One of the first things I always tell people is slow down the early stages of dating…abusers thrive in speed because speed doesn’t give you time to think.”
—Michelle Hadley (47:21)

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Timestamps – Key Segments

• [04:06] – Case recap: setup, arrest, and initial framing
• [07:17] – Meeting Ian, early courtship dynamics
• [12:36] – Life under coercive control
• [21:26] – Leaving the relationship, dangers faced
• [24:47] – Foreshadowing and wrongful arrest
• [27:54] – Life after exoneration
• [35:51] – Law enforcement’s complicity & systemic failures
• [42:45] – On Angela Diaz and her involvement
• [47:21] – Advice for women to avoid similar situations

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Tone and Language

Michelle’s voice is forthright, reflective, and resilient. She balances unflinching descriptions of trauma with hard-won wisdom and hope. The hosts are empathetic, informed, and provide thoughtful prompts, steering the conversation towards both personal insight and actionable advice.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a powerful blend of intimate survivor narrative, true crime investigation, and larger societal critique. Michelle Hadley’s story is both a warning and a source of hope—her journey from the depths of victimization to purposeful advocacy highlights the need for systemic change and personal vigilance. The conversation is essential listening for anyone interested in issues of abuse, justice, and the possibility of transformation after trauma.

Transcript

[Narrator/Promoter]

This summer, say I do. I am marrying a stranger like never before.

[Michelle Hadley]

Am I crazy?

[Narrator/Promoter]

It's a whole new Married at First Sight on Peacock.

[Michelle Hadley]

Thank God.

[Narrator/Promoter]

I woke up in love with new experts.

[Dr. Lisa]

My name is Dr. Lisa.

[Michelle Hadley]

My name is Paul Brunson.

[Narrator/Promoter]

Lord couples, this could be the start of a very successful marriage. And lord surprises. Or maybe not.

[Michelle Hadley]

Everything is just not enough. You're a little bit crazy.

[Dr. Lisa]

I don't know what's gonna happen.

[Christy]

I want my fairytale ending.

[Narrator/Promoter]

Married at First Sight now streaming new episodes Thursdays only on Peacock.

[Michelle Hadley]

I remember thinking, well, maybe this is it. Maybe this is what love is supposed to look like. Going into that relationship, I didn't know where the line was.

[Cooper Maul]

Angela Diaz is telling police that she's being stalked.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

All signs point to her fiance's ex. And her arrest sets off the strangest true crime story in modern history. It's the story of Michelle Hadley, the

[Michelle Hadley]

strange and violent stalking case.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

A jealous wife, romantic rivals, blackmail.

[Cooper Maul]

Media calls her deranged and obsessed. She's charged with stalking, criminal threats, attempted rape.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And here's the thing, y'. All, she didn't do any of it.

[Michelle Hadley]

I remember thinking, well, maybe this is it. Maybe this is what love is supposed to look like. Going into that relationship, I didn't know where the line was. It became this horrible nightmare.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

On paper, this looks like a pretty standup guy.

[Michelle Hadley]

Oh, for sure. I mean, he is a U.S. marshal, so he was already using law enforcement as a mechanism to control and keep me in the relationship. Everyone always asks, why did the risk

[Jonathan Hirsch]

when you did eventually leave was something no one could possibly have imagined. You are made to be a red herring in your own victimization.

[Michelle Hadley]

It was just a massive failure in just any willingness to investigate. When I think about Angela, I think of her as his pawn, his weapon, something that he used. I'm not afraid anymore.

[Crime Scene Host]

Hey, y'.

[Christy]

All.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Welcome to the crime scene office. My name is Jonathan Hirsch.

[Cooper Maul]

And I'm Cooper Maul.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And today we're doing something a little bit different on the show. Normally, we're unpacking a case over three acts, but today the story is sitting across from us. And I don't mean me and you.

[Cooper Maul]

Yeah. So by the time you're watching this episode, Netflix's latest true crime documentary is out, and it's called A Toxic Love Story. And if you've opened Netflix at all this week, you've probably seen the show. Art.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

So this documentary begins with the story of a newlywed who is receiving these threatening emails from an anonymous sender who goes by the name of Lilith is truth. And at first, all signs point to her fiance's ex. Now, that individual is arrested, and her arrest sets off a chain of events that would make up the strangest true crime story in modern history.

[Cooper Maul]

And if that premise sounds familiar to crime scene viewers and listeners, it should, because we covered this exact case on our show, and we called it the Fake Stalker.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right. It's the story of Michelle Hadley. And something that we have been sitting on for a couple of weeks here that I'm very, very excited to announce to you today is that Michelle Hadley, the subject of the new Netflix documentary A Toxic Love Story, is here in the crime scene office to share her story with us today.

[Cooper Maul]

And her side of the story is honestly the version we've wanted since the very beginning. Jonathan.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Absolutely. And I think all of you too, as well.

[Cooper Maul]

So before she comes in, we should probably catch everybody up.

[Crime Scene Host]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

So let's tell you a little bit about this story. For those of you who have listened to our episode on Crime Scene or have already seen the Netflix doc, consider this a little bit of a refresher, but here's what you need to know.

[Cooper Maul]

So the story begins in 2016 in Anaheim, California. Angela Diaz is newly married to ian Diaz, a U.S. marshal. And she's telling police that she's being stalked. She's getting these violent emails. There are Craigslist ads out there inviting strangers to come over to their condo to assault her, and men are actually showing up at the door. And then Angela is attacked in her own garage.

[Michelle Hadley]

911 was an emergency.

[Dr. Lisa]

Somebody came from behind me and started to choke me.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And every piece of evidence, in the beginning at least, appears to point to Ian's ex fiance, Michelle.

[Cooper Maul]

Michelle's arrested. She's charged with stalking, criminal threats, attempted rape. These are charges that are stacking up to a potential life sentence. Her bail was set at a million dollars. The media calls her deranged and obsessed. She spends nearly three months in Orange County Jail.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And here's the thing, y'. All, she didn't do any of it.

[Narrator/Promoter]

We were both thinking the exact same thing, which is holy. It's Michelle sending the emails.

[Cooper Maul]

Those emails, the IP addresses traced back into the condo where Ian and Angela lived. The garage attack wasn't real. So much about who Angela said she was is not real.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

We were on the couch. She divulged that she had cervical cancer, and the cancer progressed to stage four.

[Narrator/Promoter]

She knew she wasn't dying. We found in the bottom drawer, there was medical tubing and gauze. So she could make it look like something was sticking out of a port. I don't know what's going on. You're lying to everybody. I don't know what your game is, but I'm on to you.

[Cooper Maul]

So in 2017, Michelle was fully exonerated. Angela Diaz pled guilty and got five years. And in 2023, Ian, the man sworn to uphold the law, was sent away for a decade.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

So join us now for a very special conversation with Michelle Hadley, the subject of the new Netflix documentary, A Toxic Love Story. She has an incredible perspective to provide all of us about what she has been through, and I can't wait for you all to hear from her.

[Crime Scene Host]

Welcome to Crime Scene, the show where we tell the stories behind the world's most unforgettable crimes.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Michelle, thank you so much for being here today. It is a privilege to meet you, and we're just so grateful to have you on the show.

[Michelle Hadley]

Thank you for having me. Yeah.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Let's begin at the beginning, because some of our listeners and viewers will have seen the documentary. Some of them are encountering your story for the first time. You meet ian Diaz in 2013. And on paper, this looks like a pretty standup guy.

[Michelle Hadley]

Oh, for sure. I mean, he is a U.S. marshal.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right?

[Michelle Hadley]

So, you know, when I started, when I first met him, um, you know, I. I was out dating, and he was not the only guy I got a date with. And I actually had had a date with this guy who was, you know, he had a motorcycle. He had sort of long, shaggy hair, a little bit more wild.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah, yeah.

[Michelle Hadley]

And then I had a date with Ian, and, you know, he's this U.S. marshal, a little bit more rigid, a little bit, you know, And I remember thinking, well, if my goal is to settle down and have a family, I probably should go with someone who's a little bit more settled themselves. He's got a good, you know, good career. He's a stand up guy. You know, I don't know about this motorcycle stuff. It's exciting, but, like, you know, yeah, it may not be good if I want to have a family. And so I thought I was getting into, you know, something that was safe, something where I assumed he was background checked, you know.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And in the documentary, you talk about how this was somebody who also seemed very attentive to you and considerate, at least at first and almost to the point that it caught you off guard.

[Michelle Hadley]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

How do you think about those early stages now?

[Michelle Hadley]

Well, so one memory really stands out to me, and that was, you know, our second Date, he took me to Disneyland, and I hadn't been to Disneyland since I was high school.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right.

[Michelle Hadley]

And, you know, I, I remember thinking it was a little bit of an odd choice, you know, cause we were two adults. But then I thought, well, how like romantic. We're going to this kind of fairy tale place. And when we got there, he put down, I mean, it must have been at least $200 as a down payment for an annual pass for me. And he said, we're going to be coming here a lot together. And, you know, I'm whatever, like, I'm like 25 at this time. And I'm thinking, oh, my God, this is so romantic. No one's ever done something like this for me.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Michelle Hadley]

And so I, I remember thinking, well, maybe this is it. Maybe this is what love is supposed to look like. You know, someone who really cares about me, you know, does these nice things for me. And, you know, I got a little swept off my feet in those moments.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right. Here's this trustworthy guy. He has an, in a, in an upstanding profession, something you presume would be vetted. And he's very attentive. He's taking you to these, on these adventures. Seems like somebody that you might want to get more serious with.

[Michelle Hadley]

Absolutely, yeah.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And of course, you know, as the, as the documentary also shows you, that relationship eventually falls apart. And we'll, of course, talk a little bit about how all of that happened. But one thing that I thought was particularly notable in the documentary is that very early on they show the police interviews with you, and you acknowledged that some of the correspondences that made up what would ultimately sort of be the charges that were leveled against you did in fact come from conversations that you were having.

[Sponsor Voice]

Right.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

With him. Can you, can you talk about the decision to sort of, to sort of bring that to light in, in the series?

[Michelle Hadley]

For me, yeah. One of, I think the most important messages I can get out there is that there is no perfect victim. And every single time you see a woman who has been through severe domestic abuse, there has been a moment where she has cracked because the abuse has pushed her that far.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right.

[Michelle Hadley]

And so anytime we are dealing with domestic abuse survivors, whether it's law enforcement dealing with them, court systems dealing with them, friends, family, the media, we always should be keeping that in mind, that these relationships, they're designed to actually make you crack, make you break. And for me, hiding that stuff doesn't really do anyone any service. Because if all I do is go out there and say, oh, I was this Perfect victim. You know, little princess Michelle. I'm always so perfect. Then all of a sudden, I'm setting this unreasonable standard that I didn't even meet for other victims. So I really wanted this to be an honest documentary. We got into some of the darker sides of what it looks like to be in one of these relationships, what it really does to you.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

So, yeah, you're. You're pointing to the fact that what you found when you got more and more involved with. With. With Ian was that there was a lot of control issues. And I found it quite profound that that piece of the story came out so early to your point, because it. It allows people to see what it's like to be under the duress that you were under inside of that relationship and how stretched to the limit you were.

[Michelle Hadley]

Yeah, there is a really physical, visceral aspect to what domestic abuse does to you. You know, he was disrupting my sleep on purpose. The abuse, it was so up and down, and the ups were so high and the downs were so low that, you know, looking back now, you know, especially because it's been so many years later, you know, I know a lot now about nervous system regulation, and I know a lot about mental health because I've obviously had to unpack a lot of that. I look back and I'm like. I mean, my nervous system wasn't just. Just dysregulated. It was like he had just blown it to smithereens, you know, So I would. You know, I would be sitting somewhere and I wouldn't even be able to focus on my work or my schoolwork or anything because, you know, your. It was like your. Your brain is just constantly spinning over some of the things that he had done or some. Something he had said or something that happened, you know, last night, and you're worried, and is he going to push me again tonight or when I go home from school, is he going to be nice and normal? You know, you're constantly on edge and living like that for, you know, essentially two years, you know, it does a number on you, and how can it not?

[Christy]

Right?

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah.

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

of the viewers of the show will know because we've talked a little bit about it on the story and about coercive control, both in scenarios where there's some kind of cult like group where people are being controlled or manipulated by an individual who demands their submission to a greater idea. And you have to make sacrifices to be part of that idea. But that can be true not only in a cult like situation, but so often in relationships where you think you're doing things for the purposes of the relationship because love is about sacrifice. But then where? Where's the line?

[Michelle Hadley]

Yeah, this is something that I have really dug into after this relationship, because I realized that going into that relationship, I didn't know where the line was. I had that exact mentality of, you know, we're in love.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Michelle Hadley]

Love isn't always perfect. You have to put work into it. It's not always easy. You have to sacrifice for it.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And maybe even a sign that this is an important relationship, that you have

[Michelle Hadley]

to work for it. Exactly, exactly. Because that's what you're always told, right?

[Jonathan Hirsch]

That's what we're told. Yeah.

[Michelle Hadley]

And, you know, I don't want to be unrealistic. Of course relationships take work, and of course they're not always perfect. But, you know, we really need to do a better job, I think, in our society of teaching what healthy love looks like and where that line actually is. And, you know, I mean, I guess at the baseline, healthy love never requires you to submit to someone else's control or domination. Right, right. And that is where, you know, when you get into these coercively controlling relationships, that's what they're all about. Right. Every single abusive relationship you look at, everything the abuser does is all about gaining control and power over the vict. And so, you know, when Ian was disrupting my sleep patterns. Right. Well, okay, he's. He's weakening me so that I can't stand up to him.

[Cooper Maul]

Right.

[Michelle Hadley]

Because I'm too, too tired. I'm too disoriented. You know, when he is monitoring my whereabouts or even, you know, there was one instance where he actually showed up with me at a thing that was supposed to be just like a girls gathering. And I hadn't even told him, it's just a girls gathering, and he just shows up. It. You know, these. It was an isolation tactic. Right. To make sure not only that my friends were like, oh, we don't know if we want to invite Michelle because she's going to have her guy here, and he's going to sit there all, you know, I mean, he sat there and he was like, just a mood the whole time, you know? So, I mean, I'm sure they were like, oh, God, we don't want to invite her again. And they didn't invite me again. But then I'm also embarrassed, so I'm, like, afraid now to connect with other people. And there was a pattern of isolation as well. And so all of these tactics are things that coercive controllers or abusers use the words interchangeably use to break you down and take over your. Your whole universe, really. You know?

[Sponsor Voice]

Right.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

He's all around. I mean, you talk about this right there's getting the phone calls every hour of the day and just sort of feeling like if you went outside of the boundaries of where you were supposed to be, it was like a little light thing and you had to come back.

[Michelle Hadley]

I remember that day when that first happened and it was like this, just this sneaking suspicion, you know, and at that time I was in the relationships, I don't. I wasn't seeing it clearly, but I just was like, whoa, that's weird.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Michelle Hadley]

You know, he, he never calls like this out of the. But why now? And it sort of started to dawn on me, oh, he must be tracking me, you know, and he did. He had access to all of my devices. He even had done work where he'd done something in my engine, my car. So there was always in my head, is he. Does he have some tracking device on my car? Is it through my ph.

[Cooper Maul]

Phone?

[Michelle Hadley]

Is it through my iPad? You know, he had all my passwords. I didn't have any of his, but he had all of mine. So it was this very one sided dynamic where he had so much power to surveil me, to know what I was, even what I was like possibly what I was searching online.

[Sponsor Voice]

Yeah.

[Michelle Hadley]

You know, and it can feel when someone is doing that level of surveillance on you, it can actually feel, feel like they're almost in your head. You know, I don't know if I'm explaining it well, but it's like there's a sense that they're reading your mind almost. And so that in and of itself it makes you feel paranoid and of course. Right. Because you're like, well, how do they, how do they know all this stuff? Right. How would they even find this out? You know, you live in constant state of fear and, and hypervigilance.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right. Because they've. He's crossed into your boundary, even though you have no. You have no access equivalently to the same.

[Michelle Hadley]

Exactly.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Crossing of his boundary.

[Michelle Hadley]

Exactly.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

So he maintains. And this is so common. Right. Like this state of composure.

[Michelle Hadley]

Yes.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And, and distance from any sort of retaliation you might have to setting those boundaries.

[Michelle Hadley]

Exactly.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And yet you have this voice in your head.

[Michelle Hadley]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Of this person who has access to all of your comings and goings.

[Christy]

Exactly.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Must have been terrifying and, and difficult to, to, to reel yourself out of.

[Michelle Hadley]

Absolutely. And you know, I always tell people, look, everyone always asks the infamous question, why didn't you leave? And I was telling, I'm not going

[Jonathan Hirsch]

to ask you that question.

[Michelle Hadley]

I had a feeling you wouldn't. And I always tell them, well, first of all, I did try to leave multiple times, and it wasn't successful. I knew I needed to leave. And so there was one day where I could hear Ian talking to his friend Leslie. This was my chance to get out because I knew he wouldn't do anything while she was there. As I drive away, my hands are literally shaking on the. The wheel and I'm crying, hoping to God he doesn't follow me. At that point, my bank account is drained because it's all gone into the condo. My parents house was the only place I knew to go, And I felt

[Christy]

like

[Narrator/Promoter]

I'm here,

[Michelle Hadley]

But I'm realizing it's not over. And he has actually no intention of letting it be over. The first time I tried to leave, he pulled out a phone and he threatened to call the cops on me just for wanting to leave the relationship. So he was already using his association with law enforcement as a mechanism to control and keep me in the relationship. The second time I tried to leave, he escalated to getting physical and he blocked my exit, threw me down on the bed, and it was horrifying. Right. So there are many cases where we don't actually see the victim exit, like fully the relationship, but it doesn't mean they haven't tried.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right?

[Michelle Hadley]

We just, we haven't seen it because it's all been kept behind closed doors. And the other thing I tell people is that we don't give victims enough credit. We understand the danger we're in. And actually, if you study domestic abuse, most of us who do will tell you that the most dangerous time for a victim is the two weeks after she leaves an abusive relationship. That's when most of the murders happen. Most of the big, you know, incidences happen. And I think on some intuitive and implicit level, most of victims understand the risk that they are in when they leave, right? So it becomes this almost calculation of, well, is the risk of staying now greater or less than the risk of leaving? Because there's a risk either way. You're not, you're. You're. You're kind of screwed no matter what. But you're basically in your head saying, well, it kind of looks like he's escalating to the point where he might actually hurt me. Maybe now it's better to leave, you know, and. And then how do I get out? Right? Because sometimes he's trapping your exit, so you have to find the right moment as well. So it's very complicated for victims to leave. And that doesn't even get into the dynamics of a trauma bond, which is a whole other, you know, kettle of fish. Right.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And the risk of leaving when you did eventually leave that relationship was something no one couldn't possibly have imagined.

[Michelle Hadley]

Yeah, exactly. I mean, right there, you know, nail on the head. I knew he was going to do something to me, and I was telling people he was going to do something to me. And in fact, when I was with him, he actually foreshadowed it a little bit, because I remember him asking me on a car ride he told me about. Because he worked in prison systems, he told me about Romeos. That's the designation you get when you are a sexual assault criminal. Like, meaning you did, you know, there was a rape or something along those lines. He told me about their conditions, and he asked me how I would feel if I was one of them. And I told him it would be my worst nightmare. Well, I mean, come on down the road, what ends up happening? But that's exactly the crime that I am charged with. And I am labeled a Romeo in the jail system. And when I say labeled, I mean the. The guards would literally say R3 Romeo coming through. They would call it out. So everyone else in the jail knew that you were Romeo. And. And you had this, like, designation as, oh, you know, you committed this sexual offense. Even though obviously I hadn't. But. So I knew. I mean, I didn't know that was what he was going to do when he said that, but I knew he was going to do something bad. And. And no one, you know, no one listened. Everyone told me I was overreacting. And then, just as you said, it became this horrible nightmare down the road.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

So in a way, the way that he manipulated that situation puts you in the exact opposite situation than the one you, in fact, were escaping. It is like gaslighting to a T.

[Michelle Hadley]

And Darvo, too, that's a term in the survivor community, means deny the attack of reverse victim and offender. And he effectively took everything he did to me, and he flipped it and said, no, she's the one doing all this stuff.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right?

[Michelle Hadley]

You know, it's the most horrifying feeling in the world.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And you, you. You do find justice, and you do. You're here with us, alive, so happy for that. But still, in a way, I wonder when I was watching the documentary, how it must feel to sort of the way these stories are told. We all know, right? Like, they're told both from the point of view of journalism and we talk about this on the show a lot, and from the point of view of entertainment. So people are entertained by these Stories. Sometimes they're learning about true crime from true crime stories, but then sometimes these stories are told in a way that kind of withhold certain details for suspense and all of that. And just by the nature of this case and your story, you are, in a way, made to be a red herring in your own victimization, in your own story where you are the victim. You're also like a red herring in that story, if that makes sense.

[Michelle Hadley]

Yes.

[Crime Scene Host]

To you.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And I wonder how that feels.

[Michelle Hadley]

You know, when I first popped out of jail, you know, and, you know, was exonerated. Yeah. I'll put it really bluntly. It messed me up pretty good. You know, there was just a lot of healing that I had to do from that because, you know, people forget that when you are the victim of these things, you still have to. You know, I'm still out there trying to live, you know, I have to go get a job.

[Crime Scene Host]

Yeah.

[Michelle Hadley]

You know, at that point, I still was interested in dating and, you know, I want to have a family and stuff.

[Crime Scene Host]

You want to have a life?

[Michelle Hadley]

Yeah, just a normal life. And I had been a very private person before all of this happened. I had almost no presence online. And so all of a sudden, I was out there. There are, you know, massive amounts of articles of me online. It really shifts your way of relating to the world.

[Dr. Lisa]

The.

[Michelle Hadley]

So the first, you know, I would say probably two to three years out were pretty rough, you know, but then, you know, I did a lot of healing work, done a lot of therapy. And I think I also just really went after it with reclaiming my life. Like, I was just very bold. I went out there, I was like, I'm going to relaunch my career. I'm going to move to a new. I'm going to do all the things, even if it's still kind of hard and there's still roadblocks. And I got to a place where I was able to make peace with it and then also realize, kind of almost like I call it crossing over whenever you kind of reach that evolution point where you, like, kind of move. And for me, it was this realization that I could actually embrace the power of almost the monster narrative, but flip it and take it kind of into another stage where I now turned around and pulled other survivors along with me. So it was really finding that, like, larger purpose for me that I think allowed me to process that in a. In just a healthier way, you know, where it doesn't bother me now. Like, you know, there. There was a time where, if I had seen this. Even this documentary and the way it's laid out.

[Cooper Maul]

Right.

[Michelle Hadley]

Because there is a little bit of that element. In the beginning, it would have triggered me, but now, because for me, this is all about a larger purpose of reaching domestic abuse survivors and reclaiming my story. It doesn't anymore. And that's a very powerful place. Yeah.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

You are incredibly open and vulnerable in this documentary and brave, might I add. And, you know, I think to that point, at one point in. In. In the documentary, you talk about ways in which you were manipulated within that relationship such that you felt that even a part of yourself, a more innocent part of yourself had. Had died.

[Michelle Hadley]

Yes.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And here you are on the other side, bringing victims of similar experiences along with you in. In a way that is so powerful and can help other people see the situations that they're in and hopefully change their situation if they are not in the right one. And I just wonder how you found that strength to reclaim maybe the parts of you that felt.

[Michelle Hadley]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Corrupted or disturbed by this person and their own disturbance. How did you find your way back to a place where you felt like, I am whole again?

[Michelle Hadley]

For me, yeah, I had to really let go of that old version of Michelle. And not because, you know, she was beautiful person and, you know, and you can probably see a little of that come through in the interview where there is still a little of that. Oh, it's sad, you know, because she had to go through this, you know, and I think now even of, like, my daughter, other young girls, and, you know, you can't prevent all the bad things from happening to them. And so there's a chance that there's going to be some other young girl who's going to go through a similar process where that kind of innocence and wholesomeness is sort of squashed out, you know, by something bad in the world. But diamonds are made under pressure. You know, there are a lot of wonderful, beautiful stories about things that grow out of something really horrific and naked negative. And I see myself now as having reached another level where now I'm a warrior and a protector of others. And I actually like that version of myself better than the innocent version. You know, I mean, I think she was a beautiful person, but this person is kind and caring. But I also, man, you know, like, go after a victim at your own risk, because if I'm on their side, I'm coming for you, you know, And I don't. I'm not afraid anymore. And my fear isn't. I should rephrase that. Everyone feels fear.

[Christy]

Right.

[Michelle Hadley]

We all do. But I have an ability now to push through the fear that I didn't have in the past. And so I'll feel it. But I have just this, like, muscle almost that I've built up where I know I can get through it because I've seen myself do it before. That is the most empowering thing you can possibly feel, you know, and it. And I'm actually really grateful that I have that now.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah. I mean, that's incredible. An incredible message to people who are struggling in relationships where it is not healthy.

[Dr. Lisa]

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[Dr. Lisa]

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[Cooper Maul]

Me slow when network is busy.

[Dr. Lisa]

See terms.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Did want to ask you a little bit about some of the elements that are kind of swirling towards the end of the story.

[Michelle Hadley]

Okay.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah. You know, one of them being that, and I understand some of this is we, we can't really even maybe not even talk about just the terms of how these things go down. But you weren't just a red herring for crime storytelling. You were a red herring for the perpetrator. And that same degree of trust that you placed in Ian, it appears that law enforcement afforded him as well.

[Michelle Hadley]

Agreed.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

He knew exactly how to talk to them. And the documentary, to an extent, dissects the way in which he positioned you to be the fall person in his own criminal pursuit.

[Michelle Hadley]

Yeah,

[Jonathan Hirsch]

what, what are, what, what is your sort of takeaway about how the case was handled and more, more importantly, what you learned about, you know, what, what's your takeaway from that whole experience?

[Michelle Hadley]

Well, so I was very Deliberate in not signing anything that would prevent me from talking about Anaheim pd So I'll go right into it. Great. We know, and we see this all the time. Blue wall of silence. There have actually been other domestic abuse cases that involve law enforcement officers where their fellow officers have protected them. This is nothing new under the sun. I knew what was happening, when it was happening. And when I say that, what I mean is that when I. Right after I got out of the abusive relationship with Ian and I told you, I knew something was coming, and I was afraid, I started researching domestic abuse because it was starting to dawn on me what had happened.

[Cooper Maul]

Right.

[Michelle Hadley]

You know, it was like I talked to my sister about it. I had talked to some friends, and my brain was starting to click. Like, oh, oh, okay.

[Narrator/Promoter]

Wow.

[Michelle Hadley]

I'm processing this, and I'm realizing that was an abusive relationship, and it was pretty bad, actually.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Michelle Hadley]

Then I started researching domestic abuse with law enforcement. Like, I literally. I mean, you know, Google was around then. You know, I'm old, but, like, it was around, and. And, you know, you start reading these articles, and I remember thinking, oh, oh, I don't think I should report this to law enforcement because he's going to 100% use them against me, because this was already online. This was. It's not like a secret, you know? So I actually very deliberately did not report anything to law enforcement. So it's ironic to me that then down the road, he ended up reporting to law enforcement, and I wasn't even really surprised that he was using law enforcement against me. And I also wasn't entirely surprised that they weren't listening to me, because I already had. I had done my homework. But we see this in a lot of cases like the Gabby Petito case, even if you watch the video where the cops pull them over.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right.

[Michelle Hadley]

You should hear one of the cops say, oh, my. My woman does this kind of stuff too, at home. Believe me, if I were to say

[Jonathan Hirsch]

that me and my wife haven't had our share of spouse, I'd be lying to you.

[Sponsor Voice]

Right.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

The initial dash cam footage when the two of them are in the car on the side of the road and the cops come.

[Michelle Hadley]

Exactly. You know, and you watch it as a survivor, and you're like, oh, yeah, same old story. They blame the woman, who, of course, looks upset because she's just been abused, and they talk to the man like he is one of them, you know? Now take that. Ratchet that up to another level, because Ian was also law enforcement, and not only law enforcement, but he was A US Marshal, which carried even more weight. So one thing that really stuck out to me in my case, and this is something that I love, I just love to see change, honestly, across the country, one is there's just no education on domestic abuse with law enforcement officers. They don't understand it. They don't know how to handle it. They can't recognize it when they see it. No one's training them on coercive control. No one's training them on power dynamics. So they're walking into these situations and oftentimes they're clueless. Now you'll get occasionally some that know a little bit more and they understand and they've seen some cases and stuff and they care. But by and large, it's just really not taught to law enforcement officers. The other thing is these guys did no investigation on my side whatsoever. I mean, I cannot stress enough, I was calling them, leaving voicemail messages, trying to get the detective assigned to call me back and talk to me because I had some evidence already, right, that they could have used. I also, I had evidence that I was in a place where I had no access to emails or phone or anything. Like, I could prove it, prove it, prove it. I mean, I'm not talking like, oh, someone says that I didn't have access. I'm talking, I had like hardcore, you cannot deny this evidence that I was in a place where I could not access emails. And I was also very far away from anywhere where this was happening. Had they known that, that might have caused them to look a little bit more closely. We also know, and we knew this at the beginning, that some of the IP addresses were not masked. So had they simply run it through an IP address tracker, which my dad was able to figure out how to do, they would have seen right off the bat that it went right back to the condo. They also knew that Ian was responding to the Craigslist ads from his own personal email address.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right.

[Michelle Hadley]

You know, there was. There were two video cameras set up on the garage and on the entrance to the alley into the garage. There's one way in, one way out. There's no way you could get past video cameras because, you know, tall building, right? I mean, unless you're spider man. But, you know, I'm pretty sure we didn't have any spider mans over there. And the video cameras didn't show anything either. So there were so many data points that had they done even just a, like, surface level investigation, they would have been like, this is strange, right? You know, so for me, it was Just a massive failure and in just any willingness to investigate and also in quite frankly, an understanding of domestic abuse.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right. And what a flipping of the script where you're being targeted for harassment in a scenario. It's so chilling in the documentary when you hear the footage of them talking about how, oh, well, this doesn't rise beyond the level of a misdemeanor. The kind of harassment you're experiencing. And you're just thinking as you're watching it, like, oh, my God, like, what if you were in Michelle's shoes just a, you know, very recently before that, and you don't have a plan in place or an ability to go to law enforcement and protect yourself from this kind of assault? It just. It does highlight the. The. The gap between the dangers that people experience and in relationships and law enforcement's ability, one, to, like, respond to those things, but then also to effectively investigate them, what they happen.

[Michelle Hadley]

Absolutely, absolutely. And it's the most power powerless feeling in the world.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Well, I'm so glad they got out of that. One other thing I was thinking about when I watch it. Of course, Angela Diaz is not a part of. Of the documentary, declines to be a part of the documentary. And yet in a way, both of them, of course, serve terms for what they did. She confesses to it. I wonder how you view her and her involvement in what happened to you, because she is his partner, too, and you know what he was capable of.

[Michelle Hadley]

Exactly. So I know that Ian is capable of just an extreme amount of manipulation, control, gaslighting, and also just, honestly, dark things. So when I think about Angela, I think of her as sort of his pawn, you know, his weapon, something that he used or someone that he used to. And I think he knew what he was looking for in his next relationship. That. That's my suspicion. So, you know, I never spent time with her in person, so, you know, outside of what I know of Ian, I really don't know much about her.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right.

[Narrator/Promoter]

Yeah.

[Michelle Hadley]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And of course, you know, didn't mean to imply in any way that she isn't responsible for the time that she served, but certainly it's a. I wondered how you felt about.

[Michelle Hadley]

If it tells you anything. I didn't go to her sentencing hearing to read a victim impact statement. I actually waited. I did. At Ian's, though. Yes.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah. One last question for you. A recurring theme in this documentary, and I think what makes your story so empowering and unique among stories that have received this kind of attention over the last decades, is that you are not only the recipient of an Unbelievable cascade of manipulation and terrorizing by a partner. Somebody who you thought at one point you were in love with.

[Michelle Hadley]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

But you make it out on the other side of all of this and you reclaim your story, both for others and for yourself. And there's this really powerful moment where you talk about the name that you were handed in this situation, the Lilith is truth idea that you were somehow this, like, female version of a devil like character. A bad.

[Michelle Hadley]

Yeah, well, so do you know that. So I didn't know the story. Story of her fully until this happened. And Ian sort of picked this character, for lack of a better way to refer to it for me.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Michelle Hadley]

And I remember we picked this character. I was like, this is so weird. And then, you know, after all of this happened and, you know, one time I looked, you know, I. I mean, you know, I have a weird relationship with it because sometimes I'm like, I don't want to know too much because it's a little freaky. But I looked it up, and it turns out that Lilith in, like, the origin story came before Eve, and basically she was disobedient. So she stands up to Adam, she stands up to God. She just got. I don't want to listen to no man. And then she. She basically just takes off into the desert.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right.

[Michelle Hadley]

And when I read this story, I thought, that's interesting, you know, because there were also a lot of themes in some of the emails he sent where he would label me a suffragette and all of these other very kind of, like, women's empowerment type things. And, you know, there's that moment in the documentary where, you know, I've come to realize that maybe in some way he saw that in me before I saw it in myself, you know, that I am a very strong woman. And, you know, it's interesting because it was, in fact, that strength that allowed me to come out on the other side and reclaim my story.

[Cooper Maul]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

It's so incredible. It's such an awesome flipping of the metaphor.

[Crime Scene Host]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

In a story where so often

[Ryan Reynolds]

your

[Jonathan Hirsch]

own situation was being used against you.

[Michelle Hadley]

Yes.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

In the end, you made it out on the other side.

[Michelle Hadley]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Which is so incredible. And now you have a daughter.

[Michelle Hadley]

Yes, I do. Huh.

[Sponsor Voice]

And

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I wonder how you think about as she gets older.

[Michelle Hadley]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And young women in particular, because you were young when this happened.

[Michelle Hadley]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

As you say in the documentary, perhaps hadn't had enough experience to even sort of see the signs of ways in which your identity was being carved out by this person. What. What you would want your daughter and other Young women to know as far as the warning signs.

[Michelle Hadley]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

For the situation that you went through.

[Michelle Hadley]

Yeah. Such a wonderful question. Because prevention, you know what the ounce of prevention is a. I forget what the expression is. You know, what I'm trying to, you know, it's a lot. It's a lot, and it can go far. So one of the first things I actually always tell people is slow down the early stages of dating. If I could give one piece of advice to everyone, it's that because abusers thrive in speed. Why? Because speed doesn't give you time to think. And you need time to think, to assess. You can't spot the red flags if you don't have any time to digest. Right. And a lot of the times abusers will go after them. Those people who are very thoughtful, you know, maybe their brains are, you know, pretty active, you know, and. And so, you know, they'll do like those deep dives and they'll really think thoughtfully about things. So they might need a little extra time to just like, in between dates to be like, how did I feel about that? Or he made that weird comment here. So that's thing one is just slow it down, you know, and that means both in terms of how quickly you commit to the person, but also just in terms of like, spacing out the dates enough so you have time to think, to breathe, and also so they don't take over your life right away because that's also something that they're doing when they're moving quickly and they're going, you know, back to back dates and they're love bombing you with like. Like all the gifts and the attention. You don't even have time for your own life.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right.

[Michelle Hadley]

That should never be happening in the early stages of dating. You should always still have time. Like, you shouldn't be saying no to your favorite hobby or to going out with your friends. These are just little strategies and tactics you can use. The second thing is, and this one sometimes gets a little controversial because people are like, oh, well, some people have a, you know, that kind of sense of humor. Okay, sure. But people should not be making jokes at your expense that hurt you. And one of the things I tell people is if someone makes a comment that kind of puts you down or it's like a mean joke, the best test to see if they're just, you know, maybe they just have that kind of humor is to set the boundary with them. And if you don't feel comfortable setting the boundary with that person around, that. That already is enough of a Red flag.

[Cooper Maul]

Right.

[Michelle Hadley]

Because that means that person doesn't feel safe.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

You're sort of inviting that critique of you in the future in other situations where they feel like they can insinuate and interior.

[Michelle Hadley]

Yeah. And. Well, and that's one of the things with these relationships is that as it goes down the road, like the early comment might have been something kind of small that maybe you just didn't really like, but then later they continue to escalate it. And what they're really doing is they're trying to erode your self esteem over time. They're trying to make you feel bad about yourself. And it might start in something small that doesn't really do that, but that small thing is them testing the fence to see, you know, is it. Is the fence sturdy? Is it strong, is it electrocuted? What's going on here? But if they find that there's a hole in the fence, then they're like, oh, great, cool. You know, I'm gonna get in. You know, I'm gonna get in this fence and now I'm gonna get past the next fence and, you know, and I'm just gonna keep going until I get to the center. And you gotta. So you have to be willing to set some of those boundaries early. And you could do it in a nice way. You can just say, you know, hey, you know, I get you were just trying to be funny, but, you know, that. That didn't feel really good. And, you know, I'm not really a fan of like, that kind of human and like a good person who, you know, I mean, it could just also be. It's not a good fit from a humor standpoint, that's actually okay for you guys to decide early on. So that's thing number three or two. And then thing number three is. And it's kind of related, but they're gonna test any boundary they can. So if they're trying to push your sexual boundaries, if they're trying to make you change your appearance, if they're trying to tell you that you shouldn't hang out with your friends, these are really early warning signs that they're trying to get control over you and break you down. So those are my top three things that I think are pretty easy to remember, hopefully where people can just say, look, slowing it down, because quite frankly, you slow it down. That's a huge one. Because they'll. Honestly, the abusers will often bounce. If you have that boundary of going slow, they won't like that.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Give yourself space to make sure you're in the right situation.

[Michelle Hadley]

Yeah. And process it. Yeah.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right. Michelle, thank you so much for joining us on the show today. And I wish you the best of luck in your journey to bring your learning from this tremendously unfortunate series of events into something that can be empowering and, you know, and moving forward into your life in a positive way. So I just can't thank you enough for joining us on the show.

[Michelle Hadley]

Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, it was so.

[Crime Scene Host]

Hey, y', all, thank you so much for joining us on Crime Scene. Just a reminder here, you can watch or listen to us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. This show is a production of Sony Podcasts and the binge. Thank you to everybody who makes this happen week in and week out. Also, we're journalists. We love journalism. These stories have been deeply reported, the ones that you hear on the show. And you can find an extensive bibliography by going to the show notes of this episode and to every episode to learn more about the reporting that informed all of the great stories you hear on Crime Scene. And just one last note, you can get exclusive content from us and the binge over 60 jaw dropping true crime stories bingeable and ad free right now by signing up for our [e-mail]. so go to getthebinge.com to get access to our entire catalog of stories, but also to get behind the scenes access to all of the stories that Cooper and I are working on. To join us in the conversation about these cases, go to getthebinge.com to learn more.