Mountain Man Mike

Summary

---

Crime Scene: "Mountain Man Mike"

Sony Music Entertainment | Hosts: Jonathan Hirsch & Cooper Moll | May 21, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this gripping episode, Jonathan Hirsch and Cooper Moll investigate the mysterious disappearance and brutal killing of John Mike Kreitz—nicknamed "Mountain Man Mike"—in the remote Montana mountains. What began as a seemingly typical neighbor dispute over rural access roads spiraled into intimidation, lawsuits, and, ultimately, a chilling murder. Despite a dramatic investigation and a suspect brought to trial, justice proved elusive, raising unsettling questions about evidence, motive, and the limits of the justice system.

---

Main Discussion & Key Events

1. Discovery of a Gruesome Crime (04:05–09:21)

• October 2011: Forest Service employee finds dismembered human remains in garbage bags near McDonald Pass, Montana; the victim's head is missing.

• Quote:
  "A reclusive man in the Montana mountains says he's being hunted on his own land. His neighbors are pulling guns. They're filing lawsuits...He tells his friends, 'I think they're trying to kill me.' And then one summer morning, he vanishes." – Jonathan Hirsch (01:44)

• Identification: DNA confirms the remains are of John Mike Kreitz, who had been reported missing that summer.

• A year later: Mike’s skull is found by dogs; both locations are on opposite sides of the Continental Divide.

• Unusual detail:
  Sheriff Dutton notes, “The remains were found on two different sides of the continental divide, put in bags and buried. That was unusual.” (08:01)

2. Who Was Mike Kreitz? (09:38–11:36)

• Born in Germany, Kreitz settled in rural Montana for a solitary, off-grid life on 80 acres, living with wolf-dogs.
• His lifestyle and desire for privacy clashed with neighbors over road access—an issue that escalated alarmingly.

3. The Land Dispute Escalates (11:36–15:18)

• Turk Road: The central dirt path providing access to several rural properties, ownership and rights to which were disputed.

• New neighbors: John Meehan and Katie Wessel deny everyone access through parts of the road on their land, intensifying hostilities.

• "Meehan begins blocking this road...brandished and fired pistols at people...He was like, this road is no longer open." -- Jonathan Hirsch (14:01)

• Conflict turns to intimidation and violence: Meehan and Wessel routinely harass Mike; legal battles ensue.

4. A Web of Threats and Lawsuits (16:28–18:20)

• Another neighbor, ex-navy man Leon Ford, has his own dispute with Kreitz about road access, with allegations of trespassing, gate cutting, and threats.
• By 2011, Mike is surrounded by legal and physical threats from multiple sides.

5. Mike Vanishes Under Suspicious Circumstances (20:48–26:31)

• Mike’s state of mind:
  "He flat just looked at me and said, 'Chris, they're gonna kill me.'" (20:48)

• Timeline: In June 2011, after confrontations about gate access, Mike calls a friend for support, fearing Leon Ford. The friend doesn't come; it's the last time anyone speaks to Mike.

• Key detail:
  “His last words to me were, ‘Mom, if they find me dead up here, please tell the authorities about the crazy guy down the street. Goodbye, Mom. I love you.’ That is so damn eerie.” – Cooper Moll (24:26)

• Ford’s alibis about his presence don't fit the timeline captured by a game camera.

6. Suspicion Falls on the Neighbors (26:42–29:00)

• Ford’s timeline and statements are contradicted by camera evidence.
• Meehan and Wessel continue their lawsuit against Mike’s (now missing) estate. Meehan makes a suspiciously informed public statement about the missing skull—a fact only law enforcement knew at that time.

7. Investigation Stalls: Years Without Justice (29:00–32:07)

• Meehan later tampers with evidence by removing game cameras.
• Despite intense suspicion on both Ford and Meehan, no arrest or charges for Mike’s murder are made for nearly a decade.
• Mike’s sister, Connie, becomes a relentless advocate, seeking access to police files and offering a reward for information.

8. Breakthrough via Forensic Evidence (32:07–33:32)

• Key forensic clue: Unique zip ties found with the remains are traced to a batch only available through a naval contractor. Investigators find that Leon Ford requisitioned the same zip ties from his workplace at the Whidbey Island Naval Air Station.
• Quote:
  "They find records...showing that he had requisitioned those exact ties from a warehouse." (32:50)

9. Arrest, Trial, and the Limits of Circumstantial Evidence (33:32–42:11)

• 2020: Ford is arrested for deliberate homicide and evidence tampering.

• Prosecutors argue motive (road access), opportunity, and the physical link to the zip ties.

• The defense highlights the lack of physical evidence: no crime scene, no murder weapon, no forensics directly linking Ford.

• DNA on zip ties belongs to two unknown men—not Mike, not Ford.

• Notable defense quote:
  "There is no doubt that Michael Kreitz was murdered and that his body was dismembered, but Leon Ford did not do it." – Defense Attorney Palmer Hoovestahl (36:17)

• John Meehan and Katie Wessel invoke the Fifth Amendment, refusing to testify; suspicions remain about their involvement.

• After a mistrial (jury hangs), prosecutors announce they will not retry Ford due to insufficient evidence.

• Notable quote from defense:
  "Leon Ford did not kill Michael Kreitz, and there was absolutely no way that they were going to prove it. And they did the right thing.” (41:51)

10. Reflection, Frustration, and a Lingering Quest for Justice (42:11–End)

• Sheriff insists, "It's clear that someone murdered Mike Kreitz...It's our job to prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt. So we will continue with that job." (42:45)

• Connie remains dedicated, fighting for answers and justice for her brother and family.

• Emotional quote from Connie:
  "My mother deserves to have justice for her son in her lifetime...I have to keep fighting for my mother." (43:12)

• The episode closes with a reflection on rural American isolation, land disputes, and the tragic consequences when community, law, and motive intersect fatally.

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On rural disputes:
  "Even if you live in rural America, your neighbors oftentimes define your life and who you are...They could be two miles down the road and still have a major impact on your life." – Jonathan Hirsch (02:55)

• Discovery of remains:
  "Inside this bag are dismembered human remains." (04:05)

• On evidence tampering:
  "It was not public knowledge that the skull was missing...Meehan identifies correctly the missing part as Mike's skull." – Jonathan Hirsch (28:10)

• Sheriff’s frustration:
  "It's clear that someone murdered Mike Kreitz...it's our job to prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt." (42:45)

• Connie’s dedication:
  "My mother deserves to have justice for her son in her lifetime, and it's justice for the family...I have to keep fighting for my mother." (43:12)

• On the lack of resolution:
  "Would you have voted to convict him...with the evidence available?" – Cooper Moll (45:02)

---

Notable Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening & Case Introduction: 01:44–03:54
• Discovery of remains & identification: 04:05–09:21
• Mike’s life & property background: 09:38–11:36
• Description of Turk Road dispute: 11:36–15:18
• Confrontations, threats, and escalation: 15:55–18:20
• Mike’s disappearance: 20:48–26:31
• Investigation details / suspicious neighbor statements: 26:42–29:00
• Case goes cold, family's fight: 29:00–32:07
• Zip tie forensic breakthrough: 32:07–33:32
• Trial and ultimate legal outcome: 33:32–42:11
• Reflection, family perspective, and justice debate: 42:11–End

---

Episode Tone & Final Thoughts

The hosts maintain a steady balance between clear-eyed journalism and profound empathy. They intersperse methodical breakdowns of the evidence and legal maneuvers with deeply human moments from Mike’s family and neighbors, emphasizing the tragedy, the ambiguity, and the frustration of unsolved cases in rural America.

“This story says a lot about our own relationship to land and property and agency...and clearly, in this case, he wasn’t able to come to that agreement with his neighbors. And whether or not that was the reason Mike was killed, it was clearly looming at the time of his death.” (43:39)

The episode ends with a call to listeners to consider the challenges of rural justice and to empathize with families affected when the truth, though close at hand, remains just out of legal reach.

---

Transcript

[A]

Every month my wireless bill used to arrive and I'd stare at it like it was evidence from an active investigation. Random fees, vague charges, free perks that somehow were not so free. The whole thing felt deeply suspicious. Eventually, I did what any rational person would do. I stopped the madness and switched to Mint Mobile. Mint Mobile has premium wireless plans starting at just $15 a month with high speed data and unlimited talk and text on the nation's largest 5G network. No long term contracts, no nonsense. You can bring your own phone, keep your number and activate with ESIM in minutes. Turns out the real crime scene was my monthly phone bill. Turns out the real crime scene was my monthly phone bill. Ditch overpriced wireless and get three months of premium wireless service from Mint Mobile for 15 bucks a month. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop [e-mail] crime scene that's mintmobile.com Crimescene upfront payment of $45 for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required, equivalent to $15 a month new customer offer for the first 3 months only. Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. A reclusive man in the Montana mountains says he's being hunted on his own land. His neighbors are pulling guns. They're filing lawsuits. They're blocking the road to his home. He tells his friends, I think they're trying to kill me. And then one summer morning, he vanishes. In October 2011, a U.S. forest Service employee discovers garbage bags near McDonald Pass, west of Helena. Inside it, dismembered human remains, sawn apart and zip tied together. Everything but the head. A year later, dogs find something else. The missing head. DNA confirms both belong to the same person. Welcome to Crime Scene, the show where we tell the stories behind the world's most unforgettable crimes. And this week on the show, the story of John Mike Kreitz. What starts as a neighborhood dispute unravels into something far more sinister. With a question still live into the air, this who killed John Mike Kreitz? Rights and why? From Sony podcast and the Binge, this is the story of mountain man Mike. Hey, all. Welcome to the Crime Scene office. My name is Jonathan Hirsch.

[B]

And I'm Cooper Ma.

[A]

And together, each week, we're going to bring you the most remarkable cases and crimes throughout history. We'll dive into every aspect of the case, the investigations, criminal legal, all the different angles. But most importantly, we're going to tell you the story beat by beat, line by line. This show is a part of the Binge, which is Sony's true crime podcast network, which I lead up and you'll hear myself and Cooper on from time to time. Think of it as all the things you love about limited series true crime storytelling in a single episode. So, Cooper, this story I have been really looking forward to digging into with you. I've been thinking about it for a long time. It really is a story about the American identity in a lot of ways because it takes place in rural Montana. At the heart of it is this question about the land disputes between multiple individuals. And I think it shows you how wherever you are, even if you live in rural America, your neighbors oftentimes define your life and who you are. They could be two miles down the road and still have a major impact on your life. And they almost like loom larger.

[B]

You live in rural areas more magnified. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Let's get into it.

[A]

All right. So Our story begins October 2011 east of McDonald Pass in Montana, which is this mountain highway that cuts through the Continental Divide west of Helena. It is a beautiful rural area. A forest service employee is working alongside the road when he notices something disturbing. A garbage bag is placed in sort of a partially unearthed shallow hole in the ground. Animals have pulled at it clearly, which has allowed pieces of the bag to surface. So he walks over there and he takes a look and he opens up the bag. And inside this bag are dismembered human remains.

[B]

So, Jonathan, you know, right now I'm like training to climb Mount Whitney.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So a lot of my time, my free time is spent hiking. And this is like every time before I go on a hike, I think to myself is a possible scenario I could find myself in. And it's like worst nightmare.

[A]

It was sawn apart and then portions of it were sort of zip tied together with heavy duty cable ties.

[B]

So this wasn't just like thrown out there?

[A]

No, this was not just a body that had been dumped into a bag in a hole, like in a shallow grave. This was like dismembered pieces of a body. Police are called onto the scene and begin to investigate what is clearly not just a common burial situation. DNA testing is done on the body and in January of 2012. So a few months later. And it confirms that the remains belong to a 48 year old man named John Mike Kreitz. He'd been reported missing from his remote property off of Turk Road near Birds Eye, Montana that previous summer. And it was clear now that when he went missing, he didn't come back. The body, though, I should say is not complete. And I don't just mean that it. That the body was cut up and put into this bag. The skull of the body is missing.

[B]

Okay. Horrifying. Right. But the fact that somebody took the time to dismember this body and scatter it. Right. Like, yeah. It's as if they had a plan to cover it up and make sure it was harder for them to get caught. Right.

[A]

There was a lot that went into the disposal of this body.

[B]

Yeah, I know somebody. Do they find the head?

[A]

They do. About a year later, In September of 2012, this couple is traveling through the area, and they stop to walk their dogs on sort of the west side of McDonald Pass. And you know how I was saying, it kind of stretches across the continental divide. And they were on the western side of. Of that hill, and they're going for a hike with their dog, and the dog leads them to the human skull and other remains. And so this would have been in another county and a totally different crime scene, if you want to call it that.

[B]

Yeah. Not to mention a year later.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So not to be morbid, but it's kind of hard to put a face to a skull at that point, so.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How do they identify.

[A]

The Montana crime lab identifies the skull as Mike Kreitz. Through dental records. Because, you know, our bodies may be temporary, but our teeth live on forever. Sheriff Leo Dutton noted a strange detail. He said, quote, the remains were found on two different sides of the continental divide, put in bags and buried. That was unusual.

[B]

Yeah, unusual is putting it a little bit mildly there, Dutton.

[A]

I think you can. Mr. Dutton, I think you can up the ante a little bit. I would use other words to describe it besides unusual, but.

[B]

Yeah. So someone killed Mike Wrights, dismembered him, scatters him in various different places. I mean, there's clearly intention behind this. This is not some kind of hiking accident or anything like that.

[A]

Yeah, there was clearly something going on here strategically about placing body parts in different areas so that they wouldn't be found together in the same place. And if you scatter all of these remains, it slows down the cops ability to sort of figure out what is going on here. It sort of throws them off the scent. And also, there's no murder scene. You know, there's no crime scene. I mean, I think that was something that really shook me about this case, that when investigators begin to approach this crime now with the full body intel, where's the crime scene? What is the crime scene? The crime scene is not locatable.

[B]

Whoever Planned this out. Smart.

[A]

Yes. And the head itself, also, I should note, wasn't just dismembered and left there. There were two shots in the head.

[B]

Okay, so someone really had it out for this guy.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Who. Who was Mike Kreitz?

[A]

Mike was. Was born in 1962 in Germany. He was the son of an Air Force family, a military family. And eventually they settled in Aurora, Colorado, so just outside of Denver. And this was in the mid-70s. And in 1992, when Mike was all grown up, he moved to Helena, Montana, where he sort of had always fallen in love with the state and the place. His dad would go on hunting trips with him. And he worked really hard and saved up money. So he was like 30 when he moved there. And he purchased this massive stretch of rural acreage, 80 acres off Turk Road outside of Bird's Eye, which is, like I said, this rural area of northwestern Helena near the Continental Divide, sort of in this beautiful foothills. He built a home that had no running water, no electricity, and he was living alone with these wolf dogs that he owned. They were like 87% wolf canine dogs. So. Wow.

[B]

Never heard of that before.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I mean, you're kind of describing, like, my alternative universe dream life here. I mean, except for the no running water and electricity part. But, like, Mike is really off the grid. It's not like those van life influencer types. Right.

[A]

Mike was one of those people who had his own very particular idea of what his life out here in the country was supposed to be and what it was going to look like. And the place where his idea of life out there in Bird's Eye clashed with his neighbors all happened on the road that sort of connected these rural properties together.

[B]

Turk Road, how did this road function?

[A]

So Turk Road is this rutted dirt path that cuts along the hills in Montana and northwest of Helena and Bird's Eye. It's not public or private. It's kind of this shared road where if it's on your property, it's your property, but if it's on somebody else's property, it's their property. And you have these easements into the property of somebody else to travel along the road. This kind of easement setup is very detailed and plotted out in the city, you know what I mean? Like, you're allowed to park on the road that is public if you have a, you know, a structure there that's permitted by the city. There's all these different ways in which, like, easements work not to bore people too much with that. But in this case, it was very informal. You go through the property of somebody else if you have the right to, because your property is next to theirs. So you kind of share this road. Mike's house sat at the end of Turk Road or near it. And to reach his property, he and the Floras, his friends, had to travel through this land owned by John Meehan and Katie Wessel, this married couple that had moved to the area around 2008.

[B]

But Mike was there first, so he couldn't have solved this before moving it.

[A]

You're getting at something that was complicating the issue that Meehan and Wessel had maintained that no one had a right to use the road on their property, despite that road kind of having this informal arrangement after all these years. And Mike had been there before, or they showed up. Sheriff Leo Dutton described the. The genesis of this conflict. He said, quote, michael Kreitz maintained when he bought his land that he did have an easement to cross all the roads into his property. That was the genesis of this argument that neither one wanted to back down.

[B]

This reminds me, when I was growing up, my. My. My mom and her ex husband found themselves in a very similar situation.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

With an easement road. And the dispute became violent. People can get extremely proprietary over this stuff. And just because you're out in the middle of nowhere doesn't mean you're ungovernable. Right?

[A]

Right. But, yeah, in a way, there's fewer people to find. So Meehan begins blocking this road. This escalates. Right. There's snow, debris, dirt. He puts these rudimentary gates and fences across it. He removed the existing road signs and he dug a ditch across the road so you couldn't really get through. He also brandished and fired pistols at people who were using the road. He was like, this road is no longer open.

[B]

So he's like taking the whole, like, not in my backyard behavior to a whole other level.

[A]

Yeah. And then also kind of, it seems intimidating Mike or definitely creating this aura of uncertainty and fear around this argument between the two of them. When Mike was away, Meehan would ride his snowmobile up to the property and terrorize his dogs. They said do loops around his house and then race back down before Mike returned. Here's Mark Flora, Mike's friend, talking about. Sounds bizarre because it is bizarre. It sounds crazy because it is crazy. It's certainly not enough of a reason to go to war with people over. And they did.

[B]

I mean, to me, this sounds like straight up harassment, not some sort of property or legal dispute.

[A]

I agree with you, it sounds like that. And then Meehan launches a lawsuit to commit it to record. But it's less about suing a person, more about trying to change the law, I think, to sort of restructure the ownership of this road and the spaces therein. And in an email, he laid out the goal of the lawsuit that he and his wife had filed, which was to extinguish public easements on Turk Road and force everyone to buy access from them.

[B]

So in other words, this is an ultimatum for Kreitz to get at or to pay.

[A]

Right. And this was not something he seemed to be in agreement on either side. So in November 2010, the situation escalates even more. Meehan points a loaded rifle at Mike while Mike travels down the road. Katie Wessel stands on the opposite side of the road, also armed with a rifle at Mike's back. So Mike started recording all of his encounters with Meehan on video.

[B]

I mean, smart guy, he's got to document everything, right?

[A]

Yeah, he always be recording. Y'. All. Note for home, in one of these videos, he documented shots fired near his head.

[B]

I'm hoping you guys just heard that shot. I just heard a bullet fly over my head. So we'll see if that's enough to make you law enforcement types do something.

[A]

Hope you will.

[B]

It's not getting any better up here. So he's got these guys on camera now. Yeah, Proof that he can show law enforcement. How do they respond?

[A]

Meehan is arrested at this point, pleads no contest to negligent endangerment, which is a misdemeanor, and he's ordered to remain 1500ft away from Mike.

[B]

Okay, so he's finally got him off his back.

[A]

Yeah, but Mike's problems aren't over because there was another enemy looming.

[B]

This guy just cannot chill in peace.

[A]

It really does seem so. So this guy, Leon Ford, is an ex Navy man living in Oak Harbor, Washington. He owned about 15 undeveloped acres just north of Mike's property. And he had his own dispute with Mike over access to the logging road that provided access to his 15 acres. So it seems that just because there was no clear roads or delineation of a road that was maybe publicly managed, everyone had to negotiate these things for many years. And it just appeared as though it was all coming to a head. So in 2007, the two men met for the first time when Mike reported Ford for trespassing on his land. Ford admitted cutting a lock on Mike's gate. And Mike alleged Ford pointed a gun at him.

[B]

Quite the first impression yes.

[A]

By April 2011, both Meehan and Ford had lawsuits pending against Mike. So he's surrounded in a different way this time. And Meehan, his gun toting neighbor, who had already pointed a rifle at him and ordered to keep his distance, wanted him to surrender control of the only road in and out of the Bird's eye area, the road that Mike had used freely for a decade before this guy showed up. And Ford, the ex Navyman from Washington state, had bought a piece of land up the hill. And now he wanted him to open the gate and let him through. And then, after all of this tension and craziness that's going on in this area, Mike vanishes. Coming up, the land dispute that everyone thought was just neighborly nonsense turns into something darker.

[B]

So good, so good, so good. Everything you want for summer is at Nordstrom rack stores now and up to 60% off. Stock up and save on the brands you love like, like Vince, Sam, Edelman, Frame and free People. Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts. Shop new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack

[A]

girl.

[B]

Winter is so last season, and now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders that perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done. Hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope. It's time for a little in person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. So just for all of us following, we've got Mike Kreitz, a man living off the grid in Montana, embroiled in multiple disputes over access to a road on his property. He's got one neighbor, this guy, John Meehan, who's been physically threatening him, and another landowner, Leon Ford, who's fighting him in court. So by the summer of 2011, the tension is kind of at a breaking point.

[A]

Yeah, it really is. Mike's feeling trapped. He confides in a close friend. Quote, he flat just looked at me and said, chris, they're gonna kill me. I just kind of blew it off. His friend said at the time, come on. Like, they're not gonna kill you over a road. And that was the last time he saw Mike.

[B]

I mean, it's really chilling. It's like Mike knew what was coming.

[A]

He did. He really did. Mark at the time had said that, quote, Leon Ford was going to show up and finish Mike off. And Gloria has also been quoted as saying that two weeks later, an ex military man shows up and Mike disappears.

[B]

So they had an idea of who may have been behind this.

[A]

Definitely some suspicions about this Leon Ford character that are entering into the story now. Right. So Ford, for his part, drives from Oak Harbor, Washington to Montana, telling investigators he had sent Mike a letter in advance saying he was coming and expected the gates to be open. A game camera on the Flora property, which covered Turk Road, captured Ford's red Chevy pickup heading up towards Mike's property. And that evening, Ford and Mike have a confrontation about the gate. Mike tells Mark Flora, his friend later, that Ford had, quote, yelled and screamed at him and demand that he remove the gate. And Ford's account, he said he met Mike and they came to an agreement on access.

[B]

When you show up like that, you

[A]

know, different communication styles. That night, Ford tells Mike that he will return at 10am the next morning and expects that gate to be open.

[B]

This guy is incredibly persistent, I'll give him that.

[A]

He came to an agreement. At about like 8:50, Mike calls Mark and asks him to come witness a meeting with Ford. Called me about 10 minutes to 9 in the morning and asked me to come over and help him because he was afraid Leon Ford was going to kill him. And I didn't go. We told Mike to, you know, videotape it, don't expose yourself, record the conversation. And he said he would. And that was the last time I talked.

[B]

You can't but think about Mark probably wrestling in his head with, had I just backed my buddy up, right, maybe none of this would have happened. And I always think about the, the weight of hindsight in these types of stories when there's some writing on the wall and the weight that people have to carry around. Right.

[A]

Yeah. And he's scared, but it's also everything that he knows, this property and his ownership of it. And you can see how this becomes this fog that you, that he lives in in this story where he's trying to protect his land and his own sense of agency. And he feels like he moved out here to the middle of nowhere, I would imagine to sort of live this life unencumbered by other people. And now his life is defined by their encumbrance. Right. Like you just don't want them in the way. And so you trudge forward but didn't really see. What we can see now was all of them barreling Towards a unfortunate turn of events, A disaster. So the game camera captures Ford's truck going up the road around the time of that last phone call. But it contradicted what Ford would tell the cops. Mike's phone goes dead after a call in which he tells a friend he's worried that these issues with neighbors could end in violence. He hangs up when he hears somebody approaching.

[B]

His last words to me were, mom, if they find me dead up here, please tell the authorities about the crazy guy down the street. Goodbye, mom. I love you. That is so damn eerie.

[A]

Yeah. And the camera shows Ford's truck coming back down approximately four hours and 57 minutes later.

[B]

Okay, so that's nearly five hours.

[A]

That's a really long amount of time to just sort of work things out with each other, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So Ford initially tells investors, investigators he's spraying weeds along the road. This is on June 26th. However, the county's weed division records show that Leon didn't pick up the weed sprayer until the 27th.

[B]

Okay. Extremely suspicious it is.

[A]

The game camera shows Ford's truck bringing a weed sprayer up the road for the first time on the 27th. Going back down an hour and a half later with the sprayer appearing to still be full. Ford later changes the story. He says that instead, he had actually spent the 26 looking for booby traps with a metal detector. Ford tells investigators he had gone up and down the road a dozen times over three days. But camera footage shows his vehicle only goes up once on the 27th.

[B]

Yeah, this guy was clearly not accounting for any kind of game camera or CCTV giving him away.

[A]

His version of events did not contemplate that at all. On the 28th, day after that, the florists spot one of Mike's wolf dogs loose in their yard, still dragging a chain so like, apparently had broken free. Mike's sister Connie said that that was really unusual.

[B]

Mike doesn't really strike me as the kind of guy who would just leave his beloved wolf dogs.

[A]

No. This was his pack, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So Mark Flora goes to check on Mike. At this point, his house is open. His wallet and cell phone are left behind, and his vehicle is still there. There's no signs of violence, but also no signs of Mike. Flora reports Mike as missing at this point to the authorities.

[B]

Yeah. And Flora knows this dispute intimately at this point, you know, inside and out. Right. So it's like, if anyone would have a sense of what happened to Mike, he seems to be the most credible source.

[A]

Yeah, you're right. Yeah. Like Mark has a really good sense of what this dispute was and how this might be connected. And at the same time, before they'd even found Mike's remains, his neighbors Meehan and Wessel, are, like, still pursuing the lawsuit against him while he's missing.

[B]

Get a grip. You know, but, like, something clearly awful has happened to Mike with the details available right now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So he wasn't even around to contend with the lawsuit. How does that even work?

[A]

I mean, they still forged ahead. I guess they figured he would come back, or it looks like they figured he would come back, whatever. And they filed a Credititor claim for $25,000 each against Mike's estate. And then something truly odd happens in this period after the remains were found, but the skull is still missing. Meehan says something off at a public event. He. He says that it would be, quote, impossible for police to develop a DNA profile from the bones because they were missing a specific body part.

[B]

How the hell would he know that? I mean.

[A]

I mean, yeah, how would he know that? I mean, it's a small town. Maybe some details about the crime scene were leaked.

[B]

It's still. It's an extremely suspicious thing to throw out there. I mean, that's like he's putting a target on his back at this point, or at least would be for me.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, to be clear, the skull was not found at the time. It was not public knowledge that the skull was missing. At this point, it was known only to law enforcement. As best we know, it had not been released publicly. So Meehan identifies correctly the missing part as Mike's skull.

[B]

So the insinuation here is how would he know that unless he was involved?

[A]

Exactly. So about a year after Mike goes missing, his friends, the Florists, reported that their game cameras had been removed. And another suspicious detail.

[B]

And those are the ones that the cops were using to monitor Shark Road.

[A]

Exactly. Yes. So the video shows Meehan walking towards the cameras before the footage stops.

[B]

I mean, yeah, probably do unplug them.

[A]

Yeah, perhaps maybe like a lightning struck and hit it a moment later, but doubtful. He's charged with felony evidence tampering and misdemeanor criminal trespass. The bail is set at half a million dollars, with a judge citing a possible connection to Mike's disappearance. It's later reduced. Meehan pleads no contest to the criminal mischief charge, which is a reduced charge. And Cooper, I mean, I think this is one of those moments where we're all probably thinking, how did this happen? How did it happen? How did so much time pass they found his body in these different locations. But for nine years after Mike's death, no one is charged with his murder. The case goes cold. His sister, Mike's sister Connie, who I've spoken with, she's an incredible woman. She fought for access to the investigative file. She took her case to the Montana Supreme Court. She's been fighting for justice for her brother for a long time. She announced a $10,000 family reward for information leading to an arrest and conviction. It wasn't until 2020 that investigators got a break in the case because of the cable ties. Coming up, an arrest is made nearly a decade later. But justice turns out to be more complicated than anyone expected.

[B]

This episode is brought to you by.

[A]

Prime Obsession is in session.

[B]

And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice off campus. Elle every year after the Love Hypothesis, Sterling Point and more. Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can

[A]

feel through the screen.

[B]

Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime.

[A]

Bonjour, compadre. It's the Priceline negotiator. How do I negotiate so many great travel deals? My greatest gadget, the Priceline app. It's got hotel deals, flight deals, rental car deals, all of those deals in a bundle deals, game day deals, concert trip deals. No one deals more deals than Priceline. Hold your horses. There's more. The app lets you filter hotels by neighborhood vibe, star level, and amenities like pools and spas and beachfronts and. Wait, I'm not done. Stop cutting me off.

[B]

So by now, we've heard that Mike Wright has vanished after a confrontation with Leon Ford over the road access.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

His dismembered remains were found scattered across the continental dividend. Multiple neighbors had a motive here, including Ford, the ex Navy guy, and Meehan, the gun wielding neighbor. But for nine years, there were no arrests in this case. So now, nearly a decade later, you're telling me investigators finally have a lead in the cable ties?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So where the hell did those come from?

[A]

Let's get into the zip ties. So there are production markings on the heavy duty zip ties that were found at both of these locations that are traced back to a single manufacturer, Hellerman Titan. And these ties came from a specific mold that was used in September 2011. And they were only available from specific distributors and had to be special delivered. Which really starts to narrow down who this could potentially be. Who would have purchased those.

[B]

It is so crazy how specific these investigations can get. Like, this is my favorite stuff that like specificity of the forensics. Like this.

[A]

Yeah. To be a fly on the wall when this was all unraveling for investigators. So they find records of a contractor at the Naval Air station in Whidbey island, which is where Ford worked, Leon Ford, showing that he had requisitioned those exact ties from a warehouse. In August of 2020, just before 10am Leon Michael Ford, who is 66 years old at this point, is arrested at his home in Oak Harbor, Washington, by local law enforcement, assisted by three Lewis and Clark county deputies. The charges are deliberate homicide and tampering with evidence.

[B]

That sounds about right.

[A]

Yeah, that seems like the charges here. Ford makes his initial appearance in Helena a couple of weeks later. Um, and bond is set at $400,000. So Connie, when she heard the news, was, of course, overjoyed that there had been a break in the case. She said, I started jumping up and down. She drove three hours to meet her mom, and she said, her mom. Her face broke out into a huge smile, and the first words out of her mouth were, praise God.

[B]

I mean, yeah, it's gotta be a huge moment for them. So after nearly a decade, is there going to be justice for Mike?

[A]

You would hope so. The prosecution's case was led by a retired Lewis and Clark county attorney, Leo Gallagher. And it was built around the motives, the opportunity that was presented to the alleged perpetrator, and the history of lies and misinformation that had surrounded this case. So Gallagher opens his statement by saying, quote, mike Kreitz owned property that Leon Ford needed to cross to get to his little piece of heaven up where he wanted to retire.

[B]

I gotta say, it is a little bit ironic that Mike thought it was unfair that he was getting access from one neighbor.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yet denying another neighbor access. It is. It is a little pot calling the kettle black here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He wants a break from one neighbor, but he refuses to give another neighbor a break.

[A]

I think that's exactly right. There was this long running access road dispute which seemed to cut both ways. Right. Culminating in Ford's demand that Mike remove the gate. That was the motive. The opportunity was the game camera showing Ford's truck heading towards Mike's property around the time of Mike's last phone call on June 26th and returning five hours later.

[B]

Yeah. Pretty damning to say the least.

[A]

Yeah. And then he wasn't consistent with the story. Right. Like, Ford talks about spraying the weeds on June 26. But then later, the county records show he was picking up the sprayer.

[B]

The day later, he changed this story multiple Times.

[A]

And then there's the issue of the cable ties. Right. Like Hellerman, Titan's director of quality Assurance, testified that these ties came from a specific mold, and prosecutors linked them to Ford's access to that tie and that mold at the Naval Air station where he was in employ. But the defense, which was led by Palmer Hoovestahl and Julie Pierce, argued that there's no physical evidence linking Ford to the crime.

[B]

Yeah, that is definitely a pickle. That they're going to be in the

[A]

scene of the crime is a tricky one here. Right. So Pierce, in his opening statement, said, quote, there is no doubt that Michael Kreitz was murdered and that his body was dismembered, but Leon Ford did not do it.

[B]

Pretty bold claim, considering, you know, the motive and the opportunity you just ran me through. How do they back all of that up?

[A]

There's no physical evidence. It is heartbreaking, but there's a case there, right? No murder scene is ever identified. No murder weapon is ever recovered. There's no forensic evidence that directly links Ford to the crime scene or the remains. And then there's these other suspects, because it seemed like everybody was in a fight with each other along Turk Road. There were violent disputes that had gone down with Mike in other scenarios, and several of them ended in lawsuits.

[B]

Okay, fair. That is all true.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But the cable ties, I can't get. I can't get this out of my mind.

[A]

It's a tough one.

[B]

They're pretty damning.

[A]

Yeah. What do we think? I mean, I. I still struggle with this detail, but witnesses from the Naval Air station do testify that there were multiple brands of cable ties on hand at the time. And there's no real way to determine from the request form what brand Ford actually took. Right. So the ties were from this specific mold, but that mold numbered in potentially the millions. So you can't really narrow it down other than to draw this very compelling connection between access to materials found on the body to the conflict between Ford and Mike, to their altercation to Mike's disappearance. All those things seem to line up towards a story, but none of them directly tie forward to a crime scene that we can see, determine, evaluate.

[B]

But what about DNA? Would there be DNA on the cable ties?

[A]

DNA is on the cable ties. A DNA test is run, and they found profiles from two unidentified males, neither of whom are Ford or Mike.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I think that just brings up a conversation that we have all the time.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, what is it that makes a case strong enough? Right. I mean, juries need more than A compelling story.

[A]

Right. It's one of the reasons I wanted to bring this story to you guys, because it is so compelling narratively that we very easily can land on a conclusion. And yet every piece of that story is countervailed by the reality that it doesn't directly link to the individual. Which brings me back to this whole issue of the fact that there was no crime scene to begin with.

[B]

Yeah. And, I mean, juries need evidence that is strong enough to survive being picked apart. They need a crime scene.

[A]

The reasonable doubt here is the counterpoint to every piece of the story that argues that Ford was in fact the perpetrator here, which is none of those pieces of evidence place him at the scene of a crime. So Ford testifies in his own defense, which we know is somewhat unusual in a case like this. He denies under oath that he killed Mike or that he had those specific zip ties. And then the defense calls John Meehan and Katie Wessel to the stand, who, you know, have that lawsuit still pending. They both invoke their Fifth Amendment rights against self incrimination and refuse to testify.

[B]

I mean, that's, you know, how I feel about the Fifth Amendment. I find it extremely significant, like people refusing to testify. There's no reason to do that unless you have something to hide.

[A]

Right. And it's coupled with the fact that Ford did testify, which you don't expect somebody with a murder charge necessarily to do outright like that. It's more complicated.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oftentimes people don't. So after three weeks of testimony, the jury deliberates over 12 hours and they cannot reach a verdict, which doesn't surprise me here on June 21, 2023. So just a few years ago, the judge declared a mistrial after all of that. Yeah. It is enraging when you think about everything that Mike's family has been through, to finally get to this point and to feel that justice has not been delivered, whatever the outcome. So Ford is scheduled for a retrial the next year. But about a year later, In March of 2024, Lewis and Clark County Attorney Kevin Downs announces that they will not retry the case.

[B]

I mean, how do they justify that decision?

[A]

And they said that, quote, the state respects the decision of the jury as well as the cardinal principle that a person is presumed innocent unless and until the state can establish guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

[B]

And it just seems like they probably didn't think there was enough to begin with.

[A]

Yeah. And the defense attorney responded to all this by saying, quote, my immediate reaction was, I think that that was exactly what should have happened. Leon Ford did not kill Michael Kreitz, and there was absolutely no way that they were going to prove it. And they did the right thing, end quote.

[B]

Of course that's going to be the opinion of the defense attorney.

[A]

Yeah, that was the right choice. But I do think he's pointing to what makes this case so complicated and unfortunate. Until there is justice for Mike, which is, you know, the story lines up, but the evidence doesn't tether to the story tightly enough for there to be a case. But the sheriff does not feel that way. I've spoken with him, too. He's a fascinating character. He said, quote, it's clear that someone murdered Mike Kreitz.

[B]

Yeah, no kidding. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, obvi. But, quote, it's our job to prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt. So we will continue with that job. It's just going to take a little bit longer than had been anticipated.

[B]

I just can't think of. It just makes me think of how frustrating, you know, this is for families of victims.

[A]

Right? Yeah. Yeah. And Connie, of course, has taken the brunt of this because she's fought so hard to find answers about her brother.

[B]

There are still people who care about what happened to Mike. And we know for certain that there's at least. At least one person, two to three people that know what happened to Mike. Probably more than that. My mother deserves to have justice for her son in her lifetime, and it's justice for the family. You know, Mike's dead. He's gone. We believe he's in heaven. We know. Actually, we know he's in heaven. So that. So that part is over. But, you know, just. I have to keep fighting for my mother.

[A]

So that's where we are today. I mean, trust me, this has been a case that I have been watching and been interested in for a long time and have wanted to take a deeper look into. And I hope everybody watching and listening to this will share in that conversation. I think that there still is a hope that. That Mike's killer can be brought to justice. But I think in a larger sense, this story says a lot about our own relationship to land and property and agency and the right to live life as you choose, and particularly in the rural American west, where there's still a lot of open land, where people like Mike can try to live a life of independence. And clearly, in this case, he wasn't able to come to that agreement with his neighbors. And whether or not that was the reason Mike was killed, it was clearly looming at the time of his Death. So there's also now, after his death, this wooden memorial sign that I think about that's on Turk Road. It has, like, antlers adorning it, and it reads, quote, brutally murdered in cold blood. No rest without justice. Their guilt curses them.

[B]

That's pretty biting. I mean, but it is. Speaking of justice, you know, I'm curious what all of y' all who have been listening or watching think. I mean, if you were on that jury with the evidence available, the game camera footage, the zip ties that were traced back to Ford's workplace, and, and, you know, all of the conflicting and changing stories, but there's no murder weapon, no crime scene. Would you have voted to convict him

[A]

on another issue if you were in the shoes of the prosecutors in the county, whether or not you would feel like this warranted dropping the case altogether? Are we really throwing up our hands here and saying that Mike Kreitz will not receive justice because we don't have enough information? And of course, the. The sheriff sounds optimistic in those quotes that we shared, but for how long?

[B]

Yeah, the wheels of justice turn slowly.

[A]

They sure do. Okay, guys, so before we go, a little bit of housekeeping on the binge. What's happening on the newsletter? If you sign up for the newsletter on getthebinge.com we're going to be talking more about Cut, Color Kill. By now, if you've been listening along, you know that Fabio's wife Monica has been having a torrid affair with her racquetball coach, Robert Baker. And we're going to get into some of the details there. We're also going to be dropping some video from the investigation from the day of the murder that you can find by signing up for our newsletter on [e-mail] we're also going to be talking

[B]

about our most recent episode, Corey Richens.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And we'd really love for all of you to chime in on what you think of the sentencing and any other questions you have about the case for us.

[A]

Yeah. Think of this as like your home to have these conversations. We're going to be there. You'll see it. If you go out there in the world, you see us on Spotify, on Apple, on socials. We're going to respond to all of your comments. We want to join you in the conversations. I still have a lot of questions. I know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Same about Corey Richards and that whole case and how that went down.

[B]

You can sign up for our newsletter in the link, in the description [e-mail] we really are trying to build a community here, getting everyone to join the conversation beyond just, you know, listening, talking with their friends. We want you to talk to us too.

[A]

Yeah, bring it over here. Jump in. The water's fine. Hey y', all, thank you so much for joining us on Crime Scene. Just a reminder here, you can watch or listen to us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. This show is a production of Sony Podcast and the Binge. Thank you to everybody who makes this happen week in and week out. Also, we're journalists. We love journalism. These stories have been deeply reported, the ones that you hear on the show. And you can find an extensive bibliography by going to the show notes of this episode and to every episode to learn more about the reporting that informed all of the great stories you hear on Crime Scene. And just one last note, you can get exclusive content from us and the binge over 60 jaw dropping true crime stories bingeable and ad free right now by signing up for our [e-mail] so go to getthebinge.com to get access to our entire catalog of stories, but also to get behind the scenes access to all of the stories that Cooper and I are working on. To join us in the conversation about these cases, go to getthebinge.com to learn more.

[B]

Your next chapter in healthcare starts at Carrington College's School of Nursing in Portland. Join us for our open house on Tuesday, January 13th from 4 to 7pm you'll tour our campus, see live demos, meet instruction and learn about our Associate Degree in Nursing program that prepares you to become a registered nurse. Take the first step toward your nursing career. Save your spot now at Carrington. Edu Events. For information on program outcomes, visit carrington.

[A]

Edu Sci Fi.