50 Cents New Scripted Show About Gilgo Beach Killer Rex Heuermann to Shine Light on Even More Murder Victims?

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: 50 Cent’s New Scripted Show About Gilgo Beach Killer Rex Heuermann to Shine Light on Even More Murder Victims?
Date: May 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode, hosted by Nancy Grace, focuses on the announced 50 Cent-produced scripted series about the Gilgo Beach/Long Island Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann. Nancy and a panel of journalists, experts, and family members of victims discuss whether this renewed media attention could help shine a light on additional unsolved murders—possibly tied to Heuermann—across Long Island, Las Vegas, and Atlantic City. The episode explores connections between various cold cases, details of the ongoing investigation, the evolution and methods of the suspected killer, and the emotional impact on victim families.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. The Gilgo Beach Killer and Broader Suspicions

• Renewed Spotlight: 50 Cent’s upcoming series puts focus back on Heuermann, with hopes it could aid investigations into potentially related cases beyond the currently attributed victims. (02:54–03:43)
• Speculation About More Victims: Nancy and several panelists assert that Heuermann is likely responsible for murders beyond those attributed to him in court—possibly including cases referred to as the “Manorville Butcher” and “Eastbound Strangler.”
  • “How many serial killers can there be in Long Island that kill the victim, dismember the victim, and wrap them in similar burlap?” — Crime Stories Narrator (03:47)

2. The Las Vegas Connection

• Potential Links to Vegas Murders: Heuermann’s ownership of timeshares in Vegas and similarities in victim profiles draw investigative attention to unsolved deaths of sex workers in Nevada.
  • Authorities are actively comparing his DNA to that from victims like Victoria Camara.
  • “We set our sights on Vegas early on because we know that he's owned two timeshares there dating back two decades.” — Tara Rosenblum, News 12 Long Island (08:57)
• Family Impact: Glendine G.R. Grant shares the pain of searching for her daughter, missing since 2006 in Las Vegas, highlighting the challenges families face with police follow-up and the emotional scars of unsolved cases. (06:44)

3. Methodology & Similarities Among Cases

• Patterns and Motus Operandi: Experts examine similarities in victim selection, body disposal locations, and methods of killing and dismemberment, noting clusters of women (often sex workers) found in isolated areas. (17:21–24:15 and 38:04–38:44)
• Geography of the Crimes:
  • Manorville to Gilgo Beach: approximately 45–50 miles—deemed a plausible route for a killer with local knowledge. (39:06)
  • Atlantic City (“Eastbound Strangler” victims) to Gilgo Beach: several hours’ drive, but not out of question for someone wanting to avoid suspicion near home. (20:37–21:11)
• Hunter Motif:
  • “We know he’s a hunter. We know he had what, what, 295 guns... And some of the other victims who were found in Manorville were found by hunters. So I believe he knows both areas from his hunting.” — Josh Zeman, director/producer, “The Killing Season” (47:38)
  • Victims wrapped in burlap, use of camouflage, and methods of binding all linked with hunting practices.

4. Dismemberment and Behavioral Evolution

• Differences in methodology—some victims dismembered, others left intact—lead to intense debate whether one killer could be responsible for all murders, or if distinct offenders are involved. (53:49–55:01)
• Expert Opinions:
  • “He didn’t get lazy. He got comfortable. There’s a difference... He was absolutely not lazy.” — Glendine G.R. Grant (56:04–56:48)
  • “You know, people who have compulsions tend to have habits that relate to the compulsion. So the hunting is related to the compulsion.” — Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst (51:21)

5. Law Enforcement Investigations & Challenges

• Backlog of Cold Cases: Significant gaps in record-keeping, especially in Las Vegas, complicate investigation efforts for families and authorities. Tara Rosenblum’s team identified 61 unsolved cases involving women in Vegas—at least five with Gilgo-esque similarities. (10:55)
• Digital Evidence and Movement Tracking: Cell phone records, toll data, and E-ZPass logs cited as essential tools in tying movements of suspects like Heuermann to various crime scenes. (25:39–27:23)
• Ongoing Risk & Arrest: Heuermann remained active—contacting sex workers and buying burner phones to the time of his arrest—prompting authorities to act for fear he’d strike again. (56:56–58:44)
  • “The reason that they hauled Rex Heuerman in...was because he was continuing to contact sex workers using burner phones...” — Jen Smith, DailyMail.com (56:56)

6. Victimology and the Role of Sex Work

• The panel repeatedly observes that nearly all victims are women and often sex workers, compounding the challenge of garnering investigative attention and societal empathy.
  • “All the victims...overwhelmingly, all the victims are women, many of them sex workers...” — Nancy Grace (18:34)
• The theme of marginalized victims and the dismissal of their cases recurs, with calls for greater urgency.

7. Expertise on Changing MO and Criminal Psychology

• Experts agree serial killers can change or adapt their methods as they gain experience or become more comfortable.
• The episode draws parallels to known serial killers (e.g., Ted Bundy) who altered their approach, with Dr. Bethany Marshall connecting this to compulsions and sexual fantasy cycles. (30:95–33:03)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Glendine G.R. Grant, on hope and pain:
  “It just blows the scab off again. It gets us going again, Hopeful that there might be answers, praying that Jessie is found... I just don't feel that she's gone in my mother heart.” (06:44)

• Nancy Grace, on plausibility of multi-state serial killings:
  “A three hour drive to dispose of bodies. Okay, sure. I'm going to call them similarities.” (21:07)

• Jen Smith, on risk of another murder spree:
  “They were watching him for a year before they brought him in, and he was continuing (to contact sex workers). They really were worried about him striking again. That's why they arrested him.” (57:22)

• Josh Zeman, on hunting and knowledge of disposal sites:
  “He knows Gilgo because he went hunting there... I think hunting kind of ties this all together. You know, are we hunting individuals or are we hunting animals?” (47:38–49:18)

• Dr. Bethany Marshall, on compulsions and clusters:
  “Serial killing is motivated by sex, right? The desire to inflict cruelty, to kill in order to achieve sexual arousal...” (31:09)

• Joe Giacalone, on digital records as key to case: “Now the other Gilgo Ford, totally intact. And it's because my belief is that this individual picked those girls up off the street and he was worried about somebody seeing them get in the car. ... That digital evidence, I think, will kind of determine exactly what we're looking at.” (26:05–27:23)

• Panel, on the recurring issue of sex worker victimization: “Women. They're almost all women. Now. There was one Asian male over on Long island and there was one child. But overwhelmingly, all the victims are women, many of them sex workers.” — Nancy Grace (18:34) “Look at the Asian male. The Asian male was found wearing women's clothing. My question is, whose clothes were they? ... I want to know when he googled the Asian Twink—was that before or after the murder?” — Cheryl McCollum (52:47)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Quote | |---------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:54 | Opening discussion of 50 Cent’s show and speculation of additional victims | | 06:44 | Glendine G.R. Grant on her missing daughter and the pain of not knowing | | 08:57 | Tara Rosenblum on the Vegas cold cases and Heuermann’s timeshares | | 10:55 | Rosenblum describes compiling Vegas cold case stats independently | | 21:07 | Nancy challenges idea that distance negates connections between crime scenes | | 30:55 | Dr. Bethany Marshall on serial killer fantasy cycles | | 39:06 | Panel debates distance, travel, and logistics of victim disposal | | 47:38 | Zeman details Heuermann’s background as a hunter and knowledge of remote areas | | 53:49 | Discussion about M.O. differences, dismemberment, and “getting lazy vs. comfortable” | | 56:56 | Jen Smith reveals Heuermann was contacting sex workers right up to arrest |

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Conclusion

This episode underscores not just the complexity and horror of the Gilgo Beach murders and the breadth of unsolved cases potentially linked to Rex Heuermann, but also the emotional toll on families and the challenges faced by law enforcement. With the looming release of a high-profile TV series, Nancy Grace and her expert panel hope increased public and investigative attention might bring long-overdue answers for many cold cases—while also spotlighting broader issues of violence against marginalized women.

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Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. I have always believed that the Long Island Serial killer, also called the Gilgo

[Crime Stories Narrator]

Beach Killer, Rex Heuerman has murdered many more women than the ones he owned up to in court. Will 50 cents new scripted show about Rex Heuermann put more spotlight on Heuerman and hopefully discover his other victims? I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being

[Nancy Grace]

with us in the last days we

[Crime Stories Narrator]

learn 50 Cent producing a scripted show about the Gilgo Beach Killer, Long island serial killer Rex Heuermann. But many of us believe Heuerman is also responsible for many other murders. In fact, many people believe that Rex Heuermann, the Long island serial killer, is

[Nancy Grace]

also the Manorville Butcher.

[Crime Stories Narrator]

Early in the investigation, speculation arose connecting Heuermann to other dismemberment cases on Long island, specifically the Manorville Butcher. Because some of those victims were found dismembered and wrapped in burlap. How many serial killers can there be in Long island that kill the victim, dismember the victim, and wrap them in similar burlap? I think there are more victims out there. What do we know?

[Nancy Grace]

We now understand why the Las Vegas victims are now potential victims of the Long island serial killer. What is the connection? And how many more dead bodies can be chalked up to one man? Also, Rex Heuerman, the Long island serial killer suspect, refuses to give DNA. Wonder why. But a judge swoops in and demands, you will give DNA, Rex Heuerman. But let's just start at the beginning. Take a listen, our friends at News 12.

[News 12 Reporter]

20 years since a gravel truck driver made a gruesome discovery along the west coast in this grassy, deserted area outside Las Vegas.

[Nancy Grace]

She just was thrown like a piece of trash in the desert. You first hear it, it's unbelievable. It feels like a Lifetime movie.

[News 12 Reporter]

The discarded body belonged to a young teenage sex worker originally from New Jersey named Victoria Camara.

[Nancy Grace]

With me, an all star panel to make sense of what we know right now, including a woman that has seemingly connected the dots between the Long island serial killer and potential suspects in Vegas. And that would be Tara Rosenbloom joining us from News 12, Long Island. But first, I want to go to a special guest joining me, Glendine G.R. grant. You may not have heard of her, but you will remember her name after you hear what she's got to say. Glendane is the mother of a 20 year old young girl trafficked into sex work in Vegas. Missing since 2006. She is the founder of Math M A T H Mothers Against Trafficking Humans. Ms. Grant, thank you for being with us.

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

Oh, I appreciate you having me on, Nancy. I appreciate it a lot.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, it actually hurts me to hear you thank me after all you have been through. You know, I have a daughter and a son. They're twins. And not much younger than your daughter when she was sex trafficked in Vegas. I want to hear your reaction to the potential link between the Long island serial killer and bodies of young sex workers found in your area.

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

Oh, well, it's, it just blows the scab off again. It gets us going again, Hopeful that there might be answers, praying that Jessie is found, you know, at this point, you know, having her missing for 17 and a half years, you know, I bounce back and forth from, you know, maybe she's still alive to, you know, you kind of hope she's not after all this time. If it's, you know, horrible things are happening to her and then back to, you know, I just don't feel that she's gone in my mother heart to not seeing any other options. So anytime something like this comes up, we get anxious again. We hope that this time we will have the answers that we need. And then we just keep going. We keep going on. You know, we have I actually lost another daughter in 2021, and I have four daughters. So now I have just my two daughters and my grandkids and my husband. So we form a very strong bond and we won't stop until we get some kind of answers.

[Nancy Grace]

Joining me in addition to Tara Rosenblum, News 12 Long Island, Kristin Thorne is with us, investigative reporter, WABC 7 Eyewitness News. Tara, I want to talk to you about potential links between the suspect Rex Heuerman, suspected of being a serial killer in the Long island area, and Vegas. First, take a listen to our friends at News 12.

[News 12 Reporter]

News 12 learned late Wednesday afternoon that the Las Vegas Police Department just got the green light to conduct a direct comparison between suspected Gilgo beach killer Rex Heuerman's DNA with the DNA recovered from Victoria Camara's body. Sources tell us the DNA testing could take six to eight weeks to complete and that it could expand to include four other cold cases that we've reported on in recent weeks, all involving young sex workers in Las Vegas who were killed in similarly suspicious circumstances as the Gilgo beach victims.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, straight to you, Tara Rosenbloom, News 12 Long Island. Hit me.

[Tara Rosenbloom]

Okay, Nancy, thanks for sharing those clips. That was actually all information that we broke first on News 12 and shared throughout the country because immediately, you know, we had prosecutors calling this the most consequential homicide investigation in Long island history, as you know. But my team, literally 24 hours after his arrest, set out to determine whether or not other police departments across the country would be able to say the same thing. We set our sights on Vegas early on because we know that he's owned two timeshares there dating back two decades. First thing we needed to find out, as you and I have spoken, Nancy is how many cold cases there are in the department. We combed through online records because they didn't have a tally, and determined there were 266 active cases.

[Nancy Grace]

Whoa, right there, right there. You think? And I even hate to say this is so cliche. In Sin City, for Pete's sake, they would have an up to date toll of how many people are missing. I mean, Glendine Grant, that's just gotta rub you the wrong way. Your daughter has been missing since 2006. And I think Tara's gonna tell us that's around the time that Heuerman was there. And they don't even have a tally of how many people are missing. Are you kidding me, Glendeen? What? What? What the hay's going on out there?

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

Oh, it drives Nancy. We literally have to be the ones that contact the police on the most cases, and we give them tips that don't always get looked at. I have to say, though, in the last year or so, maybe a little longer, we've had a new detective on the case that I'm so grateful for. He contacted me. He asked to be put on the case. He remembers Jesse's case from the get go. He said that he was a rookie when she went missing, so it's always stood out to him. And he also told me that they were born in the same year, so he has a connection. So.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, that's some good news that there's a new detective on it, but Tara Rosenblum, I want to get about 3 inches up their tailpipe. You had to go in and amass the numbers yourself.

[Tara Rosenbloom]

We did, Nancy. And out of those 266 cold cases, 61 of them, this is, by our count, involved women. So the first thing we needed to know, how many of those are sex workers. We were looking for similarities to Gilgo Beach. So we went through one by one. Glende knows her and I were in touch. We went through one by one and reached out to family members, tried to develop law enforcement sources. And of those, I was able to identify five cases with striking similarities to the Gilgo beach cases. I mean, we were knee deep in this. We were comparing autopsy records, we were putting in foil records, and we found out that, sure enough, the Las Vegas Police Department, they got the green light for their DNA lab to conclude a direct comparison of suspected Gilgo beach serial killer Rex Heuerman's DNA with the DNA recovered in one of the cases that we had highlighted early on that involved the murder of a New Jersey mother, Victoria Camara, who for two decades her family has been looking for answers. Her daughter was barely one when she was found dead. I spoke with her yesterday. She is now 21 and just really hoping that this results in justice for their family.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, hold on. You have just thrown us all a bombshell. A grenade. I read your report late last night and it's amazing. Not only your reporting and all the work, the investigative work you had to do to report what you reported, but the content of your report. It's happening. It is happening. Vegas PD now has the go ahead to make DNA comparisons from what they have found on these women in Vegas to Rex Heuerman sitting, as I said earlier, getting three hots in a cot. Now you just heard Tara Rosenbloom bring up the name and now I want to follow up with that. Take a listen our friends at News

[News 12 Reporter]

12 in his first interview since Heerman's bombshell arrest, a three decade veteran of the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department reveals the chilling reason the suspected serial killer is also being investigated for possible ties to a string of unsolved murders that he probed as a detective in the Cold Case unit until his retirement two months ago.

[Nancy Grace]

I can just say that there are similar circumstances between these three murder victims. They were sex workers and they disappeared and they were found out in the desert.

[News 12 Reporter]

Phil Ramos told me three cases he knows of have similar methodology to the Gilgo beach murders.

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Will a new scripted show produced by

[Crime Stories Narrator]

50 Cent about Gilgo Beach Killer aka Long Island Serial killer Rex Heuermann, shine light on other victims in the same area? What do we know about the similarities?

[Nancy Grace]

Take a listen to NBC. The Gilgo Task Force is now expanding its investigation to other cold cases on Long Island.

[NBC Reporter]

A serial killer stalked the streets of Atlantic City, strangling prostitutes and leaving them in a narrow ditch behind a seedy motel. In November 2006, the bodies of these four women were discovered behind the Golden Key Motel in Egg Harbor Township, their shoes and socks missing and their bodies with their faces pointed eastward towards the gold and silver spires of Atlantic City across the bay. The media called the killer the Eastbound Strangler, and no one's ever been arrested and charged with this crime.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, let that sink in. You're not only hearing our friends at NBC, but also chasing news my nine. Let's hear that one more time. Specifically, cut 145, Jack.

[NBC Reporter]

A serial killer stalked the streets of Atlantic City, strangling prostitutes and leaving them in a narrow ditch behind a seedy motel. In November 2006, the bodies of these four women were discovered behind the Golden Key Motel in Egg Harbor Township, their shoes and socks missing and their bodies with their faces pointed eastward towards the gold and silver spires of Atlantic City across the bay. The media called the killer the eastbound strangler, and no one's ever been arrested and charged with this crime.

[Nancy Grace]

A straight out to the founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute, forensic expert currently analyzing for a job for living crime scenes. You can find her at coldcasecrimes.org, host of a new hit podcast, Zone 7, Cheryl McCollum. Cheryl, you were with me so many times during the time I prosecuted violent crimes, including murders, including serial killers. The first thing you want to do when you look at similar transactions, as it is called, typically under our constitution, past crimes do not come in on the case in chief. The jury doesn't need to be tainted by other crimes unless and until it shows course of conduct, motive, frame of mind, similarity. So the first thing you want to do to get that evidence in, of course, is to find similarities. Here we have all the victims, and this has really been underplayed. Nobody even says this word. Women. They're almost all women. Now. There was one Asian male over on Long island and there was one child. But overwhelmingly, all the victims are women, many of them sex workers here in the eastbound killer case, and I think we're going to learn in Maneville, lumped together in their burial sites, their disposal sites. Burial is probably a euphemism. They're all disposed of in the same area. They're all killed in the same manner, which is not necessary to be a similar transaction. And many of them, if not all, are sex workers. Okay, how far away? Hold on just a second. Jen Smith joining me, Chief Investigative Reporter, DailyMail.com. jen, how far are the bodies in the eastbound strangler from the bodies at Gilgo? Just give me that one fact. If you know it, if somebody else knows it, jump in.

[Jen Smith]

Yeah, pretty far. I mean, we're talking about Long island on New York's east coast and then Jersey, Atlantic City, way down, kind of at the tip there. So pretty far. But, you know, not impossible, right?

[Nancy Grace]

No, no.

[Crime Stories Narrator]

Pretty far.

[Nancy Grace]

What is pretty far? Three hours. Are you serious? People drive two and a half hours, three hours just to get to work. And if you're looking to kill hookers, where are you going to go? Atlantic City? Vegas? Away from home. So your wife and your children don't know what you're doing?

[Jen Smith]

Close enough. Yes, you're right, Nancy. They are close enough for a connection to be plausible.

[Nancy Grace]

A three hour drive to dispose of bodies. Okay, sure. I'm going to call them similarities. What do you make of it?

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

They're all sex workers.

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

Their cell phones were taken. That's key to me because we know not only has Rex taken cell phones from the victims, he's used them.

[Nancy Grace]

Whoa, whoa, wait, stop. Did you actually just call him by his first name?

[Joe Giacalone]

What?

[Nancy Grace]

Are you going to have dinner with him at his place?

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

Not be too respectful by calling him by his last name?

[Nancy Grace]

Don't. Don't go while his wife and children aren't home.

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

And I'm trying not to give him too much publicity.

[Nancy Grace]

What?

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

So I'm just saying we know he took cell phones. We know he used those phones. The other thing, not only are the dumping grounds similar, but the way he's left the victims in close proximity to woman nether is key. Nancy, you and I talked about from jump street there were going to be bodies in other states. We believed that the fact that he had seven cell phones. The pros right now are going to try to see the distinction of why he had seven phones. Was each bone designated a different state? We will see.

[Nancy Grace]

Guys, we're talking about the, the very real possibility that Rex Heuermann, the so called Long island serial killer or Gilgo Beach Killer, is connected to a string of murders. The moniker, the East Bound Strangler and Maneuverable Butcher. I want to go now to a very special guest joining us. And remember everybody on the panel, Dr. Bethany, Bernarda Villona, Joe, Jacqueline, Dr. Tim Gallagher, Jen Smith, everybody, please jump in. We have an expert joining us right now. Film producer and director of the Killing Season, an eight part series on the Gilgo Killer airing right now. You can stream it at Hulu, Amazon prime and AE tv. Okay, let that just sink in. This guy has produced and directed an eight part series on the Gilgo Beach Killer and ties to other victims in the area. Josh Zieman is joining us. Okay, you know what, Josh? I just got chills on my arm thinking about, and not in a good way, in the scary way, thinking about the eastbound strangler and the Maneuverable Butcher as he is called because he dismembered bodies. Josh, what do you think?

[Josh Zeman]

Right now it's, it's really hard to kind of put it all together. I mean, you know, the defendant, is he even considered to be the Manor Bill Butcher? That's the first and big question. Yes. The Gilgo Beach 4. The Manorville Butcher, we don't quite know. And we're talking about six other victims who were found basically around The Gilgo Beach 4. The Manorville Butcher. Yes. Probably the eastbound strangler. I don't know.

[Joe Giacalone]

That's.

[Josh Zeman]

It's really tough. I mean, we're talking about four women, all sex workers, all found in close proximity to each other, all found near water. There's a lot of similarities, but there's also a lot of differences too.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, hold on just a moment. Joe Jacalone is joining us. Former NYPD Sergeant Cold Gase, investigator and author of the Cold Case Handbook. Wow. And the Criminal Investigative Function, A Guide for New Investigators. The guy has literally written the book. And you can find him at Joseph Jacalone, spelled G, I, A, C, A L, O, N, E. Okay. Completely different than the way it sounds. Dot com. Joe, thank you for being with us. You know, I hear Josh Zieman and I agree, the 3 hours drive for the eastbound strangler doesn't bother me at all. That's. No, that doesn't bother me. For someone that at that point in his killing career wants to dump bodies further away from his home. Now, the Manorville Butcher. Josh, weren't some of the body parts of the Manorville Butcher victims found at Gilgo Beach?

[Josh Zeman]

I mean, yeah, that's the crazy thing. How. How are there two serial killers dumping bodies in the same place? Yeah, you know, for a long time we didn't really quite think the two are connected. But one of the biggest issues is the defendant's Google searches. In his Google search there it comes up Asian twink, which really is a kind of like kink that's identified with an Asian kind of effeminate man.

[Joe Giacalone]

Also, just from being a cop myself, I'm sure will tell you we don't believe in coincidences. Right. So from the very beginning, I always thought it was one individual, responsive, responsible for all of these. And I'll tell you why people say, well, these people, you know, the first book, Jessica Taylor and Valerie Mack were all caught up and then, you know, remains were left in Manorville and Hempstead State Lake park and, and Fire Island Jane Doe, but, you know, and now the other Gilgo Ford, totally intact. And it's because my belief is that this individual picked those girls up off the street and he was worried about somebody seeing them get in the car. And that. So he had to try to dismember him to try to make sure that the police couldn't identify him so nothing would lead back to him. The Gilgo 4, all done anonymously, what he thought with burner phones on the Internet, and there was no need to dismember those bodies. That has been my working theory from the beginning, and I'm going to stick with it. At this point, I can't. There's no going back. So the issue that comes down to is we now have all of the electronic records. And I'm sure this Atlantic City trip that everybody's now focusing in on, you have to pay tolls to get there. Easy pass records, cell phone towers all along the way. We have all phones, or at least seven of them. So that digital evidence, I think, will kind of determine exactly what we're looking at, if we're looking at all.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, I'm gonna have to process everything you just said because that was a huge data dump right there, and every word of it was significant. Jen Smith joining me, Chief Investigative Reporter, DailyMail.com. jen, give me the framework, the time framework of the Gilgo beach killings. The Gilgo Four, they started and stopped when I could. Just look at my notes that I've made. Is this correct? 2007 to 2010 for Gilgo?

[Jen Smith]

No, not quite. The earliest that the girls went missing was around 2009, but the bodies were all discovered in 2010.

[Nancy Grace]

But we know it's in that area. 2007, 2010, you're saying 2009.

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

Correct.

[Nancy Grace]

Here comes my question. Eastbound strangler. Everybody jump in. If these numbers are. If these dates are wrong. Eastbound Strangler, 2006. Is that the discovery of the. Okay, all right, so hold on. I'm working. I'm very slowly working something. Then we have the maneuverable Butcher victims. 93, 94. Ish. Right?

[Josh Zeman]

That's correct.

[Nancy Grace]

There are also unattributed Long island murder victims, 1997-2003. What I'm saying is I have basically a linear line. Speaking of redundancy. I have a linear chronology of murder starting back in 93. You got the Maneval Butcher murders in 93 starting then where the bodies would be dismembered, then from about 97 to 2003, multiple other victims. 2006. Eastbound Strangler, 2007 to 2010. The Gilgo victims. I mean, it just said. Okay, you know what? Let me go to Bernarda Villona, who actually worked in the Homicide bureau with one of the current Gilgo case, prosecutors. She's a high profile criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor in New York. And you can find [e-mail] Bernarda, do you remember the very first case you ever tried? You don't need to tell me about it, but do you remember it?

[Jen Smith]

Absolutely, Nancy, absolutely. And it was a cold case.

[Nancy Grace]

Do you remember the last case? Do you remember the last case you tried?

[Jen Smith]

I remember the first case and the

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

last case, but definitely the first case.

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

It was cold.

[Jen Smith]

Cold case and cold cases are the most difficult cases.

[Nancy Grace]

How much did you improve? How much did I improve from my first case of an attempted shoplifting to the last case where I had a serial killer. How much did you hone your craft?

[Jen Smith]

Oh, my God, 100. I mean, I'm a different person now. Completely different person, Completely different trial attorney.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm getting a sign waved at me by Jackie Heuerman. Would have been 29 in 1993. Okay. Yes. How old was Bundy? Wasn't he? Dr. Bethany Marshall, jump in with me here. I'm trying to talk about what I see is a chronological, a very clear line. Dr. Bethany Marshall, high profile psychoanalyst joining us out of Beverly Hills where they're all worried about which designer bag goes with which designer outfit. But hey, everybody's got problems. You can find her at drbethanymarshall.com Dr. Bethany, jump in.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Well, here's what I think about the chronology. Sure. At the beginning, he's just working up the courage to begin killing people. So maybe he won't be as talented at it.

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

But you see, one of the things

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

we know about serial killers, and this is sort of in the literature and it's known in my field, is that they do kill a few victims at a time and then they go underground. And then they start, they have another killing spree and then they go underground. And the question is, why is that? The reason that they do that is that they have such prolific fantasy lies. Now remember, serial killing is motivated by sex, right? That the desire to inflict cruelty, to kill in order to achieve sexual arousal. Well, because these guys have such prolific fantasy lives, they can take a trophy or a body part and they can fantasize, they can think, they can go on the Internet. They can, they can plan their next crime and then they pop up and then there's another cluster of killings. And that's what I'm seeing in the chronology is there are clusters. You know, he kills like sort of the four women that are faced east, and then he goes Underground again, and then he pops up again. The idea of this three hour drive. I'm sorry to keep bringing this back to sex, but I think that sex addicts people are sexually compulsive. They do drive a lot. They're looking just. They masturbate a lot, they fantasize a lot. They're looking for that right next victim or person that they're going to hook up with. So think of it as a compulsion, and there's a lot of time spent in the compulsion. And also. So we're just focusing on the people who died. He may have been having sex with a lot of people every day, hooking up a lot, dating a lot, you know, calling women a lot. So the deaths have come to our attention, but we have to remember that this is a man who's thinking, acting, masturbating, looking, calling all the time. There's a huge amount of energy.

[Nancy Grace]

Hey, let me throw something in there. Of course, the guy's got seven, seven burner phones plus his regular phone. What do you think he's doing again? Ladies, your husband or boyfriend gets a burner phone, you get a lawyer. Okay, bye. Bye. But I'm thinking, I'm not. I'm in the same boat with Josh Zeman. I'm ready to consider the Maneval Butcher killings. I've got to know more about the eastbound strangler, although that MO modus operandi in eastbound seems more similar to me. The Maneval Butcher puts body parts of his dismembered victims at Gilgo beach with the Gilgo four bodies and the other bodies found there. Many, many bodies. I mean, are you ready to believe that there's a coincidence that there's a serial killer convention and several of them are leaving bodies there? Dr. Tim Gallagher is with us. Medical examiner for the State of Florida. You can find him at pathcaremed.com, lecturer, University of Florida Medical School in Forensic Medicine, founder of the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference. Just in a nutshell, if that's possible. I mean, you studied what, seven years in med school, then the undergrad, then the residency and all that. And I ask you to put it In a nutshell, Dr. Gallagher. How hard is it truly difficult to dismember a body?

[Dr. Tim Gallagher]

Well, I think that's something important to talk about here, Nancy. The way the body has been dismembered can also lead to, is it one killer or is it two? If the body was surgically dismembered, for instance, if the knife was. If a knife was used and it was between the Joints, the person would have to know about anatomy and where exactly to cut it. So they would leave virtually no marks on any of the bones with the knife. If the person had used as say an electrical saw, you know, to cut through the bones, just say as a butcher would, you know, that can. And if all the bodies who were dismembered were dismembered in the same way, that could lead to one or two killers. So it's important to look at the ends of the bones when they are found to see if the bones were surgically dissected from each other. For instance, the knife was gone through the joints, or if a electrical saw type device was used which left teeth marks and damage to the bones while the person was cutting through. If the damage to the bones were the same in each of the body parts that were found, then we could attribute that to the same person, you know, so. But as far as dismembering a person, it takes a lot of energy. It's a lot, a lot of energy. It's not, it's not for the meek. It's not for somebody who is weak. It's. And the actual pattern to look for will help you decide whether it's one or two killers.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, online everyone is. Not everyone. A lot of people are saying, oh, it's just like Dexter. It's not just like Dexter number one. That's pretend number one. Number two, Dexter was killing bad guys. This guy is killing, stalking, torturing and killing women and children. Because isn't there a child. Wasn't there a child found Jen Smith with the eastbound strangler?

[Jen Smith]

Yeah, there was. It wasn't the eastbound strangler, Nancy. It was one of the Manorville victims. There was a toddler found with, with the mother Peaches, correct? Yeah. So the mother is unidentified. She's a Jane Doe. And investigators obviously were so struck by the tragedy of this, they didn't want to refer to a toddler girl as a Jane Doe. So they came up with the name Peaches for her. And I mean, yeah, that, that was, would have been the Manorville Butcher.

[Nancy Grace]

Thank you, guys. Speaking of the Maneville Butcher, take a listen. Arcut139, ABC7.

[Commercial Announcer]

Today we are announcing that Jane Doe

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

number six has been positively identified as Valerie Mack.

[ABC7 Reporter]

It has been 20 years since the family of Valerie Mack has seen her smile or heard her laugh. The 24 year old was last seen in the spring of 2000, about 100 miles away from Philly. In November of that year, the partial remains of a woman were Found in Manorville More than 10 years later, more remains were discovered in Gilgo Beach State park in April of 2011.

[Nancy Grace]

Gilgo, Gilgo, Gilgo. We keep hearing Gilgo dead bodies, body parts. And there's another similarity. Take a listen to our friends at PIX11 in our cut 142.

[News 12 Reporter]

Jessica Taylor and Valerie Mack, another dismembered victim found in Manorville were tied to the Gilgo beach serial killer or killers. Two law enforcement sources told me they were tied up in a very cruel way. One saying their leg area was bound in a ball and you'd have to be a hunter to do something like that. The second source said the knees were brought into their chest area.

[Nancy Grace]

Josh Zieman joining us, director of the Killing Season, an eight part series on the Gilgo killer and ties to other victims in the area. Weren't the Gilgo victims bound as well?

[Josh Zeman]

Yeah, in fact one was bound with, with a belt. So the bounding is similar for sure. You know, that's another big issue. I mean, how are body parts being left in Manorville the same body parts being left in Gilgo Beach? It's just too coincidental.

[Nancy Grace]

How far is Manorville from Gilgo Beach?

[Josh Zeman]

50 miles. Joe, how far is it?

[Joe Giacalone]

Yeah, I was gonna say about anywhere from 40 to 45 miles and less

[Nancy Grace]

than 45 miles an hour, an hour and a half maybe in the car, but late at night, cut that down to 50 minutes, one hour. If you had to get rid of a dead body, how far would you drive in the middle of the night to do that? I would definitely drive at least an hour or two hours or three hours to get rid of a dead body. I'm to going, I'm curious about.

[Joe Giacalone]

Well, it would be on his way home. Explained it would be on his way home. So if, if he was, whoever is responsible, let's just say it's the suspect they have now on the way going the Maribel, you would just hop down onto the, the Sagittos, go all the way down to the southern state, right over the Robert Moses, right into Gilgo. Gilgo right into the Water Parkway, right, right to Mesopeque. I mean it's just, it's just a, you know, it's a direct route. I mean, and Josh would say too, for us who grew up on Long Island, I mean you just don't find Gilgo Beach. It's not like you can stumble upon it. You have to know it's there. So it's just, to me, it's just interesting because when you look at a map, and you look at where Manorville is in Hempstead Lake State park and everything else in Massapequa. Now it all comes into a. Into a circle.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, that is incredibly probative or proves something to me. Joe, are you telling me that Heuerman's. And again, he has not been charged in maneuverable or eastbound? We're exploring the similarities. Are you telling me, Jacqueline, that Heuerman's drive home goes through Gilgo in maneuverable?

[Joe Giacalone]

No, what I'm saying is that if you look at the map, you look at where he lives and look at where the bodies are recovered in the parts of the bodies are covered. It's. It's basically like an oval or a circle. So you can connect all the dots and put them all within that oval and, you know, be able to try to pinpoint it. And that's what we've seen investigators do already with even the cell phone records where they pinpointed him down at the Massapequa into Manhattan. And I think they're going to try to do the same thing with these cases. Just that. Do they have the records from way back when? I mean, we know they don't have them from the 96 cases and the 97 cases, because it was still. I don't think they got anything back then because I don't think much of this existed. So the issue that comes down to is you can make it. You can make a point.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay. Coming from someone with no accent at all. Me. Could you slow down your New Yorkies and tell me what you identify on the map as a would be route by Heuerman or let's just pretend the killer. Go ahead.

[Joe Giacalone]

It depends on where he's picking these girls up. But if you look at Manorville, you can make a direct line right to Gilgo beach, right from Manorville. If you, if you come from Massapequa, you can make a direct route to Gilgo. No problem. You make a direct route to Hempstead Lake State park, be home within, you know, a half an hour back and forth. And of course, anybody who's ever ridden a Southern State Parkway knows that timing is everything. So if you're doing this in the middle of the night, you're pretty good. If you're trying to do this at three o' clock in the afternoon, it'll take you a long time to do so, but it's plausible.

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

[Crime Stories Narrator]

Will a scripted program produced by 50 cents Shine a Light on even more murders at the hands of Long island

[Nancy Grace]

serial killer Rex Heuerman?

[Crime Stories Narrator]

This as details of his secret plea deal exposed. While Heuermann stood calmly in court in

[Nancy Grace]

a suit and tie, his hands and

[Crime Stories Narrator]

ankles shackled, his victims families watched from the sideline. And his wife, Asa Ellerup was there

[Nancy Grace]

as well, counting the money she'll make

[Crime Stories Narrator]

from her reality show.

[Nancy Grace]

The DA now stating if there had

[Crime Stories Narrator]

been a weak case, he did not

[Nancy Grace]

think that Heuerman would ever have pled guilty. As part of the plea negotiations, the prosecutor says he and Heuerman sat down

[Crime Stories Narrator]

and met face to face.

[Nancy Grace]

It was there.

[Crime Stories Narrator]

Heuerman accepted responsibility for the murders of eight victims covered by the plea. But how many more victims are there out there?

[Nancy Grace]

Josh Zieman, Filmmaker, producer, director of the Killing Season, an eight part series on Gilgo. Josh, I'm thinking about what he's saying regarding the route and what he said, that you'd have to know the area to even find Gilgo Beach. Everybody pause and think of a place in your hometown, a place not many people would know about, that a local. Only somebody that lived in that area would know. What do you make of that, Josh? Someone that knows Manorville, that knows Gilgo, that knows the state park.

[Josh Zeman]

Nancy, I think we can get even more specific than that. We know he's a hunter. We know he had what, what, 295 guns and probably other hunting implements. We know that he buried the GB4 in camouflage. So we know he's a hunter. We know he's a duck hunter. He knows Gilgo because he went hunting there. And some of the other victims who were found in Manorville were found by hunters. So I believe he knows both areas from his hunting. The question is, what is he hunting?

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, you just gave me a lot of critical information. Would you say that one more time, please? Well, the question is the hunting aspect. Actually, I've got hunters circled on my notes. It says one investigator saying their leg area. This is a manner of victims. Their leg area was bound in a ball. You'd have to be a hunter to do something like that. That was their quote. Okay, would you tell me that again, please?

[Josh Zeman]

Just that the reason, one of the reasons why he knows these areas outside of being a Long Islander, is because he's a hunter. We know he's a Hunter. We know he's a duck hunter. We know he had a huge collection of weapons, hunting implements. We know that the Gilgo beach four were wrapped in burlap camo. So Gilgo beach duck hunters use it, and even a hunter found one of the victims in Manorville. So I think hunting kind of ties this all together. You know, are we hunting individuals or are we hunting animals? There's just a lot of connections to the idea of being a hunter.

[Nancy Grace]

Bernarda, who's being unusually quiet today, Via Lona. You hone, you hone. Okay, here's a simple comparison. In my first jury trial, I thought that's when women thought they had to dress like men. I had on the shirt up to my chin, the long sleeves, the long sleeve jacket, the skirt, the weirdly ivory hose, the flats, my hair up on my head, and one of those fake ties that women used to wear, like a rosette or something stuck in my throat. That was the week the air conditioner went out in the Fulton County Courthouse and I was on the fifth floor. By the time that trial was over, my hair was on one side of my head, had all black eyeliner coming down my face. The jacket was gone, the shirt was untucked. I don't know what happened to that rosette. Long story short, simply put, I adapted. I changed the way I gave a closing, the way I did. Directs, cross exams. Everything changes. But, Nancy, he could have honed his craft. Is that bernardi? Go ahead, Bernard.

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

Yes, Nancy.

[Jen Smith]

So you have to think. We don't know when Rex Human started his little serial killing. We don't know where it started. Where was his first kill? Who was his first kill? Where did it happen? When did it happen? So what we encountered is just a Gilgo beach murders, and that being the four women. But he's only charged for three. And these are the questions and the clues that investigators are trying to find. And those. Those questions that we've been talking about all day are the same things that investigators are like, wait, could it have started in this area? Could it have started New Jersey? Could have started in South Carolina. Could it have started in Nevada? Where's the first kill? Because there's no way that you start right with Gilgo. There's something more to it. You started simple with a simpler murder than just this, because this seems to have been well planned. When you're talking about getting these bodies to Gilgo, B. I go back to what, Jump in about the hunting.

[Nancy Grace]

Sure, jump in.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

You know, people who have compulsions tend to have habits that Relate to the compulsion. So let's say he has the compulsion to kill, compulsion to inflict cruelty. So the hunting is related to the compulsion. Just like somebody who's an alcoholic may begin to make craft beers. Right? Because that is related to the compulsion. So he probably had a lot of activities in his life. You know, the idea of dismembering the bodies, whether that was for pleasure, sexual pleasure, or also because he was trying to cover his tracks, it was probably a little bit of both.

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

You know, did he do woodwork?

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

I hate to say. I mean, I hate to be so crass about it, but I'm sure we're going to learn that he has a lot of habits that relate to his compulsions.

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

Hey, Nancy, can I get back to MO For a second?

[Nancy Grace]

Yes, Cheryl. I just wanted to point out classic example, Ted Bundy. He started picking up women that. Oh, I'm so happy Ted Bundy started off. There's another aspect to Bundy. I bet this was not what you were going to say. He started picking up female university students, but then he shifted and no longer was picking up university students. In the end, he went back to murdering them in their place. But at the beginning, he tried to pick them up. But I bet you've got a different change in M.O.

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

i do.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

He's.

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

He dismembered some of his victims, he strangled some with pantyhose, and then he picked up a log and performed blunt force trauma. The MO can change. He can fool you because his fantasies will also change. Ted Bundy had adults primarily, and then all of a sudden he has a 12 year old child. It does change. So, for example, when we're looking at these different pockets of victims that were taken from a similar area. Look at the Asian male. The Asian male was found wearing women's clothing. My question is, whose clothes were they? Because all the other victims were found nude. He wasn't. So I want to know when he googled the Asian Tink, was that before or after the murder? That timeline is going to be crucial in telling you his mindset with that murder.

[Nancy Grace]

Speaking of MO modus operandi method of operation, take a listen our cut one two six and one two seven from the killing season.

[Killing Season Narrator]

Listen, there were in all 10 bodies that were found along Ocean Parkway. Some were dismembered and some were found intact. The Gilgo beach four, which is the three women plus one that Rex was, has been arrested for, they were all found intact. So the police, kind of because of that MO they basically group them together and they call them the Gilgo Beach 4. The question becomes, what about these other six victims? Dismemberment. It's different MO and this is hard to talk about, but is it the same killer or is it different? You know, some experts would say that it's completely different. Other people would say, no, this guy was just dismembering body parts in the beginning and then he got lazy because he didn't get caught and then was leaving bodies whole. So that's where this whole confusion comes from.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, you're hearing our new friend Josh Zieman speaking. Explain to me, Josh, and feel, don't feel fenced in or limited by my questions. Explain to me when you said he just got lazy.

[Josh Zeman]

I mean, that's a question that has been brought up. And look, I'm not an expert. We have a lot of experts on this panel who know far more than I do. I'm just a documentarian.

[Nancy Grace]

But I do want to stop right there. Zeman, you've done an eight part series on the Gilgo beach killer and ties to other victims. So I think you are. Go ahead.

[Josh Zeman]

Okay. So the question just becomes, and I throw this out to the rest of the, the panel. You know, do we have, I do. We have examples of serial killers basically getting lazy? I mean, they take all these early forensic countermeasures.

[Joe Giacalone]

Yes.

[Josh Zeman]

Could the dismemberment be part of some type of pleasure as well? Is it also a forensic countermeasure? And then, you know, he doesn't get caught for so long. We're talking about 1993 when the first. Sorry, 1996, when the first victim, Fire Island Jane Doe, disappeared, going all the way to when The Gilgo Beach 4 disappeared about 10, 12 years later. So could he get lazy? That's my question. Could he change his M.O. because, hey, he just wasn't caught.

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

Nancy, I'd like to answer that.

[Nancy Grace]

Could I stop you?

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

He didn't.

[Nancy Grace]

Go ahead.

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

He didn't get lazy. He got comfortable. There's a difference. We see it in law enforcement. Sometimes you get very comfortable in your zone, among your people, and maybe you're not on a, you know, on a swivel, looking for problems and being situationally aware. This man full time researched Google, read about, downloaded torture porn. He drove extensively looking for places, picking dumping grounds. He contacted sex workers all the time. This was something he did full time. He was absolutely not lazy.

[Jen Smith]

To just point, if I may, I

[Nancy Grace]

was just going to you Chief Investigative Reporter, DailyMail.com I was going to ask you a different question, but let's hear what you were going to say.

[Jen Smith]

Well, that's a really important, crucial point. The reason that they hauled Rex Heuerman in wasn't because they felt as if their investigation was complete. It was because he was continuing to contact sex workers using burner phones and making arrangements to meet with more women. So investigators were frankly terrified that he might strike again.

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

He'd been.

[Jen Smith]

They were watching him for a year before they brought him in, and he was continuing.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, hold on. Jen Smith, I read every single thing you write about this on dailymail.com and far, far beyond. I want you to explain what you just said about how he was continuing to contact sex workers up to the time of his arrest. But I saw the photo that you first published of Rex Heuermann in a cell phone store buying additional minutes.

[Jen Smith]

Oh, no.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Yes.

[Jen Smith]

Yeah.

[Nancy Grace]

Buying additional minutes. At least I think I saw it on Daily Mail.

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

You did?

[Jen Smith]

Yeah.

[Nancy Grace]

Buying additional minutes for his burner phone. If David lynch popped up on video at a cell phone store buying more minutes for his burner phone. Oh, yeah, I'm changing the locks then that minute. And what else is he going to do on a burner phone? That's his M.O. but now you are adding to that and saying not only was he buying those additional minutes, he's got dead in the water on that, but we know for a fact he was contacting sex workers up until the time of his arrest. And that woman, I believe she said July 4, July 7, he approached her in a very aggressive manner out at a public park. She got so afraid that she called her sister and said, I need to come home right now. Right. It was all happening up until the moment of his arrest.

[Jen Smith]

Absolutely. You know, he was brazen. He did not feel like he had anything to worry about. And he was continuing to behave in a way that he had been for decades. I mean, they really were worried about him striking again. That's why they arrested him. And you know where they arrested him? Outside his office in Manhattan. They did that away from the home where he kept 279 or 295 firearms. They were worried about standoff Nancy. That's why they hold him in. This guy was dangerous.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, I want to just zero in on something that we're all talking about. You know, Cheryl McCollum, you say tomato. Let's just say I say tomato. You say tomato. But Zeman, Josh Zeman says he got lazy. You say he got comfortable. Joe, Jacqueline and Bernarda Villalone with me, Joe, isn't that always the way? I mean, the first time I backed out of our garage, I nearly took off the side mirror. Well, guess what? I don't even slow down now. You become comfortable. Some people might call it lazy, but isn't that the way it always happens?

[Joe Giacalone]

Well, I don't know if it.

[Nancy Grace]

But go ahead, Jacqueline.

[Joe Giacalone]

Yeah, I don't know if it's always that way, but I always try to find, you know, because we, I've actually investigated these kinds of cases and you try to find where that first or second one happened because that's, that's the time when this individual made the most mistakes.

[Jen Smith]

Yes.

[Joe Giacalone]

And that's where you as an investigator try to exploit that.

[Nancy Grace]

So right.

[America 250 Announcer]

And so right.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Arrogant criminals never think they're going to get caught. I mean, that's just the thing. I mean, when even with white collar crimes we see that increasingly they fail.

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

That's it right there.

[Nancy Grace]

Bernardo, jump in.

[Jen Smith]

That's it right there. Is that they never think they're going to get caught. And you have to think that. Rex Huberman, remember he had over a 10 year head start on us because he did not become a suspect until just last year, 2022. So of course he thought he wasn't going to get caught. That's why he continued acting the way that he was acting and why the prosecution and law enforcement had to move in to because they saw that he

[Glendine G.R. Grant]

was about to kill again.

[Crime Stories Narrator]

Is Rex Uhman responsible for many, many more murders? We wait as justice unfolds.

[Nancy Grace]

Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye friend.

[America 250 Announcer]

This July 4th, come celebrate at America's Block Party hosted by America 250. America's Block Party is a Cantman 4th of July concert happening at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum. Experience music, performances from major artists, patriotic tributes and the kickoff to giving 4th helping to make July 4th the largest day of giving in American history. It's more than just fireworks. Learn more about this landmark [e-mail]

[Crime Stories Narrator]

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[American Military University Announcer]

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[Nancy Grace]

This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed human.