A (3:50)

Understand something. John Lemlade, Crime online investigative reporter. Did you just call her giant fraud ripping people off tens of thousands of dollars, including one woman that took the stand. A working class person who goes on an all expense paid trip with her to Morocco and then she gets stiffed with a $65,000 bill. Wait, are you calling that a dream? How, Wait. How dare you.

B (4:17)

One person's dream is another person's nightmare.

A (4:20)

Defend yourself with cliches. Don't. The American Dream my rear end. Jeff Cortese I call it something a lot different than the American dream.

C (4:30)

Oh, absolutely. I mean this was a, at least on the front end, a well executed fraud. Over the long term, it didn't, it didn't have the legs to remain sustainable long term.

A (4:42)

I mean she managed to pull it off. Wendy Patrick for you know what, two years. I forgot how long she managed to pull the wool over everybody's eyes. Going on trips to Morocco, staying at I think it's 11 Howard some ritzy. I don't even know how you find that hotel in New York. It's one of those places I don't think is even marked. Only rich people go there. Wendy Patrick, what is. What happened to John Laemmley, the voice of reason? He just called us the American dream. What?

D (5:11)

Well, I think, I think John Lindley, what he was talking about is there are some misguided, vulnerable people that really are subjected to social predators like Anna. And some people just are absolutely. You guys mentioned the glamour, the glitz. It's like they want to believe. And this fake it till you make it lifestyle. Nobody even took the time to say show me the money, show me the fun, show me the corroboration behind your wild stories. Because caught up in the moment, in an Instagram savvy society, people want to be in the company of people like Anna. And sadly, as a prosecutor, I am just. We are just absolutely just terrified of people like this that are able to so easily infiltrate our social network.

A (5:55)

To Dr. William July, psychologist, author of A dark. He did acquit her off, which I was shocked about, because this girl actually took the stand. Grand larceny. For allegedly stealing $62,000 from a friend that she said, come along, I'll pay for everything. On a trip to Morocco. Okay. I think they actually punished the friend because when you go on a luxurious trip to Morocco, you stay in a five star hotel. They went to spa treatments that were costing like $300 a treatment, whatever that treatment may be, laying in mud, getting their nails, whatever. 300. I think they, the jury, punished that friend for going along with the excess. Dr. July.

E (6:41)

Yeah, I mean, at worst, Nancy, what you're looking at in cases like this at worst is a psychopathological level of narcissism. At best, what you're looking at is a person who has so much greed and desire to please herself that she doesn't care what the consequences are for other people. You were asking earlier, and I just want to address what you were asking earlier about why and how can this sort of thing happen. We're all baffled when we see this, but it's age old. It's a tale as old as time. The charlatan comes in and fools everyone. So there's a part of people that are looking at this who want to believe this because they want to hang out with the person who has this kind of social. These types of social credentials, and they want to believe that she's an heiress so that they can be with her. And people are blaming social media. It's not the fuck fault of social media. Social media is just a facilitator to the neediness of other people who want to believe and accept it.

A (7:40)

Why are you piling on? Everybody on the panel except Cortizo, thank goodness, keeps talking about the Instagram society. You know what? Instagram didn't have a dang thing to do with this. It was all Miss Thing.

F (7:59)

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A (8:59)

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Anna Delvey, the fake heiress has the gall to whine, I was eating like Cheez Its and Diet Coke from the vending machine. I don't eat meat. But you probably don't want to eat meat that they're serving in jail anyway. And then when I came out, I needed to eat everything that I was missing. I'm so embarrassed. Okay, she should be embarrassed. But not because she ate Cheetos. She should be embarrassed because she is a thief. A con artist that ripped off everybody from banks to corporations to her so called best friends. But let's take a walk down memory lane. Her parents, hard working middle class people that she borrowed a ton of money. Borrowed I. E. Stole a ton of money from them as well. Hey. But she didn't just create a different identity. Her parents. I think the dad drives a truck and I know that's like my dad, as you know, worked on the railroad. My mom started as a bank teller. My grandfather drove an ice truck and a school bus. Anything to put the food on the table. But she not only assumed different an identity for herself, but she also created a whole team of imaginary assistants. An assistant, an accountant, a manager. Laemmley, is this true of her imaginary assistance?

B (10:37)

Well, and some were not so imaginary. She even had the concierge at a hotel essentially on her staff. At her beck and call. She was able to convince people of not only her wealth, but all of her aspirations, her dreams. She really wanted to build this members only arts club on Park Avenue south and was even working to get the financing for it and was not too far away.

A (11:05)

This John Lambley. She lied to a bank using phony records. Anna went too far when she attempted to take out a loan for $22.

G (11:13)

Million to finance a visual arts center.

A (11:16)

She called the Anna Delv Foundation.

G (11:18)

In all, Anna reportedly scammed a total of $275,000.

A (11:24)

Anna's double life began to crumble as.

G (11:26)

Hotels went after her unpaid debts and.

A (11:29)

Banks began to investigate her alleged assets. Wow, that's Jesse Palmer over at Daily Mail tv. Wow. Okay. So friends and acquaintances say Sorokin spent years playing the part of an art obsessed German heiress. Sometimes she'd be Russian, sometimes she'd be German. She had and accent to go with it. Rubbing shoulders with the fashion elite at Paris Fashion Week. Frequently spotted in London night spots. Then those who knew her saw her at a party in Berlin. She told everybody she had just flown in on a private jet. How did she pull it off? Scamming nearly $300,000. It was only when these ritzy hotels in New York went after her to pay her bills that the whole thing fell apart. But what really am, you know, I don't know if you do this or not. Wendy Patrick California Prosecutor AUTHOR of Red Flags on Amazon Wendy, under the constitution, you can't force a defendant into court in handcuffs or leg irons or waist shackle. You can't force them to come in, in inmate jumpsuit, prison blues or orange or stripes, whatever the case may be. But I would always keep a jacket and pants in a couple of different sizes in my office. So when a defendant would show up on Monday morning trial calendar and say, oh yeah, I want to go to trial, but I don't have a suit, I go, oh, I do have a suit for you. But she was more concerned about what she wore to court every day. She had, she actually had a personal dresser stylist dressing her for court. Wendy?

D (13:11)

Yeah, you know Nancy, what you're describing really is something hopefully the judge will take into considering it sentencing. Because it's this entire mentality of I don't want to say just not getting it that would be too kind. It's a complete under appreciation or I should say non appreciation for the fact that the rest of us work for a living. Her family works for a living. There is so much more to life than clothes and appearances and image. You know, one of the things that distinguishes this case is the fact that this over emphasis on image, on money, on glamour, sounds like it absolutely overrode every ounce of judgment that she had. And to take that into the courtroom, as you mentioned, Nancy, is probably a little bit beyond the pale.

A (13:50)

Well, listen to our friends in Inside Edition. This is Diane McInerney.

D (13:53)

This woman may look like she is dressed for a fashion show and her designer duds, but the wannabe socialite is actually on trial for swindling hundreds of thousands of dollars from unsuspecting people. She was so concerned about how she looked in court, she actually hired a stylist.

F (14:07)

Is she in a courtroom or at a red carpet event? Anna Sorokin is accused of posing as an heiress to live an extravagant lifest. But it's what she's wearing to trial that is making headlines. The 27 year old defendant showed up wearing a form fitting black dress with a plunging neckline and choker necklace. It's a look that could backfire, warns stylist Dawn Karan.

A (14:28)

Black dress, definitely a no, no. It hypersexualizes her. It makes her appear to be like a seductress. The choker kind of shows to me that she's trying to be overtly sexy. The more sexy she appears to be to be, it hurts her.

F (14:43)

Sorokin is so obsessed with her clothes, she refused to enter the courtroom because the outfit she was given to wear was not up to her standards. The angry judge told her this is unacceptable and inappropriate. This is not a fashion show. Sorokin's lawyer Todd Spodek, says accounts of his client delaying the trial because of fashion are being blown out of proportion.

A (15:05)

It's not that she didn't want to come out only because of the clothes. She's going through a major criminal trial that's publicized every day. It's emotional and it's her life. Don't cry too much. For Anna Sorokin, she was living a life that many people, not me, but many people dream of. She made a show of proving she belonged with the rich and famous. Decked out in signature Celine glasses, Gucci sandals, high end buys from net deporter Elise Walker. She usually holed up in a $400 a night room for months on in at Manhattan's very, very luxurious eleven Howard Hotel. Concierge at the hotel said they became friends when she would repeatedly, routinely pass out crisp $100 tips to both them and Uber drivers. When I hear the words crisp $100, how many hundred dollar bills do you have, Jackie? I don't think I have any. So Jeff Cortese Former FBI Special Agent When I hear the word crisp $100 bills, that means you just got them out of an ATM or from the bank. So how does she manage to defraud the bank to get cash to tip concierge?

C (16:32)

Yeah, that's a great question. You know, I think it's a numbers game in many respects. There were multiple banks engaged in her activity. She appears based on the information limited her trips back to the same. Well though she would go back to the same bank on occasion for certain certain banking activity, she did share the wealth amongst the banks within New York so as not to draw too much attention over an extended period of time.

A (17:02)

Well, what I understand that she did, and I'm going to have to get clarity on this, is that she would provide fake bank records to one bank and then they would. She was trying to get a massive loan for 22 million so she, they wanted a down payment so she Faked records and got, I don't know, 50 to 100 grand from one bank. Use that money to get a loan as a down payment on a loan, a bigger loan at another bank. None of the banks realizing what the others were doing. Another thing that really fascinates me, Dr. William G. Lai, and not in a good way. It's like looking at a tarantula under a glass box. Okay. That sort of fascination is the way she carried on this big, huge imaginary life. She would splash out on shopping sprees at boutiques, very expensive personal training sessions and beautician appointments. And she would always bring along a friend and pay for them, and they would be all impressed. The social elite, as they call themselves, would go to lavish and large dinners for celebs, artists, CEOs, all in restaurants there in Soho. And if you do look at her online, she's always drinking a big glass of wine at some beautiful location. How can an adult have that type of an imaginary life? I mean, I know when children have an imaginary friend, there's all sorts of psychological reasons for that, maybe just security.

E (18:35)

But an adult, certainly people can have these types of imaginary lives and they're going to recruit other people just because of the Chronicle. The chronological age does not make a person have the maturation that they should have. And then that can be from a lot of different things. But certainly as much as she can get other people to buy into this, then that's because she's going to continue and she's going to expand that imaginary life. And people can be very charming, they can be very off putting. Excuse me. They can be very charming, they can be very persuasive and they can get other people to buy in. There are people that can go into banks and they can fake a story and they can get people to believe it. It happens every day. And this is a person who can do that. And the imaginary fast parts of this, I mean, I would. I haven't examined her, so I can't go so far as to say she's delusional or anything like that. But clearly she has the ability, the, the, maybe a pathological type of charm. Some people can do that. And also yet remember, other people are buying into this because the banks aren't checking credentials properly.

B (19:39)

Under the name Anna Delvey, she arrived in New York with a high priced wardrobe and was known for handing out $100 cash tips, reportedly saying at different points that her father was a diplomat, an oil baron, or involved in the solar panel business. None of which are the case People who knew her said she often asked.

A (19:55)

Others to use their credit cards to.

B (19:57)

Cover cab and plane fares and then failing to repay them.

A (20:00)

Our friend Michael Sissack at Time magazine online. Yeah, there was one story that came out at trial how she hired a PR firm to organize her birthday party in soho. It emerged she never paid the bill during her stay at 11 Howard. She struck up a friend there in addition to the concierges and asked for the recommendations for the very, very, very best food in soho. We also learned that on one occasion, she invited friends to dinner at soho Saint Ambro, and the friend ended up paying a whopper massive bill when Sorokin's 12 credit cards were all declined. But Sorokin paid her back triple the amount the following day in cash. We also learned that she would go to unique treatments like infrared saunas in the East Village, go out to dinner after celebrity training sessions with Casey Duke, which Sorokin also paid for. John Laemmley how did she get money from one bank to get a loan from another bank? How'd that work?

B (21:21)

It's a very interesting line to follow, how she did this. She would go to a bank and ask for a certain line of credit based on a lot of times, just a promise of the fact that she had millions overseas that she could repay the loan. And she would go from one bank with that money to another bank and get an even larger. In fact, here's an example. She talked to an executive with Citi national bank into giving her a line of credit on her account for $100,000, promising to repay it with a W transfer from a European account. She used that money in a failed attempt to secure a $25 million loan from Fortress Investment Group. And one of the managing directors at Fortress has said that she ran into problems providing details about the origin of her wealth. Someone actually thought to ask about that.

A (22:30)

You know, her lies became more and more spectacular. Wendy Patrick California prosecutor In fact, she even managed to charter a private plain on one occasion with absolutely zero money. Wendy, how do you do that?

D (22:43)

Yeah, the level of sophistication, Nancy, as John was explaining and as we know now looking back, was absolutely stunning. It was almost as if she was daring authorities to catch her in this escalating scheme of sophistication. And you know, the answer to how you do that is the same way we commit. We see people committing other crimes is sometimes people are so trusting because image matters. You know, this is something I talk about in my book. We tend to attribute all of these positive qualities to Somebody who comes across as believable, whether they're pretty or that we like what they say or we're enamored with their accent or their clothes. All the types of things that Anna used to get ahead can fool other people into letting them acquire the kind of wealth and, as you point out, tangible benefits that this young lady did.

A (23:28)

John Lambley, tell me about the lux treatment she got in Morocco, where she ended up stiffing her friend with the bill.

B (23:34)

Well, when they went to Marrakesh, she went with a friend, and she had offered to pay for everything. Now, her friend actually offered to help pay, but she said, no, no, no. You work hard for your money, harder for your money than I do. This is my treat. And they would go out for a round of drinks, and, oops, she forgot her credit card. So she would ask, you know, very quietly, if the friend could, you know, just cover this one check. And that would happen over and over and over again. And this friend, in the end, ended up covering the $62,000 cost of the flights, dining, shopping, and the stay at a hotel where they had a private villa with a courtyard, a pool, and a butler. All the extravagance that you might say was fit for, say, a Kardashian, a.

A (24:32)

$62,000 vacation that is more than most people make an entire year. While in Marrakech, Morocco, Sorokin, AKA Delvey, took part in all the activities the hotel had to offer. For instance, they took private tennis lessons. They ate breakfast poolside. A butler would deliver them fresh watermelons and bottles of. They roamed the gardens, relaxed, swam in the villa's private pool, took a tour of the wine cellar, ate dinner with live Moroccan music before capping off their nights with cocktails at the Churchill Bar. I mean, this is a trip that most people only dream of. And now here's Ms. Thing, having a nearly $70,000 vacation built on crime.

D (25:37)

Yeah, you know, Nancy, the best things in life are free, and everybody knows that. So when you look at a story like this, part of. I think the offense that everyone is taking is to use crime and criminal activity to build a fake world where people pay the kind of money that most of us would never do even if we had it. You talk about the value of hard work, the way we were all ra. It sounds like those she surrounded herself were really taken with the fact that someone they believed was as rich and famous as she was would be interested in them. That is a basic human need. Ironically, that was being satisfied through crime and through, as you pointed out, earlier, having this imaginary friend that's larger than life.

F (26:26)

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A (27:26)

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Anna Delvey, the fraudster, the con artist, the ripoff star, now whining that she's embarrassed not because she stole from her so called best friends, but because she gained weight behind bars. She says she tried Ozempic, but quote, it just made me depressed. It made me feel like it sucked the life out of me. That's probably how your friends felt after you sucked all the money out of their bank accounts. Delvey, AKA Anna Sorkin, listed a long series of beauty treatments she's been having lately, from cupping to laser therapy to vampire facials. Where is she getting all that money? Did she make that much on Dancing with the Stars? All I know is that money should be used to pay back all of her victims. Remember her friends, banks, hotels that she ripped off? You know, I don't know about you, Jeff Cortese, a FBI special agent, but I loved it when I would. Of course, the prosecutor gets in front of an entire jury panel and reads the indictment before you begin jury selection. So everybody knows who's charged with what and what all the counts are. And I would love it to say State versus Jeff Cortiz, AKA Charlie Tuna, AKA the Hammer, AKA blah, blah, blah, and so forth and so on. I would love reading out 10 or 12 aliases. And by the time you're done reading that, the jury just looks at the person and goes, you're so you're guilty. You're guilty. Why are you. Why do you have 12 aliases? And this girl, I'm telling you, not only had aliases, but she had fake assistants. She lied about her mom and dad, who they really are. The reality is that her father was a truck driver and he went on to work at or start a heating and air conditioning business. The friends in school called her Barbie. And her favorite movie was Mean Girls. And I don't think that's any of that is good. Okay, that means nothing. Good. Jeff Cortese.

C (29:54)

No, I agree 100%. You hit it on the head. You know, the minute individuals start layering themselves with aliases and AKAs, you know, they're putting up walls and various barriers that any jury is going to be able to see through. You know, she really executed a well thought out plan against the banks using multiple techniques and methods to siphon money from them. You know, from top to bottom, she exploited what people want to see and exploited the type of lifestyle that people want to have to the extent that if I was going to run it undercover, I would have done many of the techniques that she did in order to manipulate my audience.

A (30:37)

Well, another aspect to this, John Laemmle is I remember one day when John David came running home and went so and so's mom is so cool. She works for Chick Fil A and she gets free T shirts and she gets this and she gets that. I think the lady who's very lovely was in marketing or PR and would bring home, you know, like a T shirt or a moo cow or whatever they had. And I thought briefly of creating a different Persona to try to impress John Davis friends who were then four years old. Okay. But I just decided, no, I'm just going to stick with the truth, you know, and let the chips fall where they may. But John Lambley, I mean, that would hurt me if I found out the twins were lying about their mom and dad, that what we are isn't good enough to fit in to their self image. They're projecting. That would really hurt my feelers.

B (31:42)

And that's exactly the way her parents felt about the whole thing. They actually did help fund her through college and as she was getting out on her own, but there was never any sort of trust fund. She moved to Germany in 2007 and after she dropped out of college, she interned in public relations before then moving to Paris and became an intern at Purple magazine. Once she arrived in New York City, she just somehow managed to be in all the sort of right places. And she was this German heiress, according to her, with a father, that you.

A (32:22)

Would think, wait a minute, I thought she was supposed to be a Russian heiress.

B (32:26)

Well, no, she, she was from Russia, but she told people she was a German heiress. What's really funny though is that her German, according to A lot of people was terrible.

A (32:37)

Hmm. I want you to take a listen to what the defense claims in closing arguments.

G (32:43)

She had to fake it until she could make it. Those words from the defendant's own attorney who claims she never intended to commit a crime. But prosecutors call her a fraud and a liar who would do almost anything to prolong her life of luxury. This morning, the fate of an alleged scam artist is now in the hands of a jury. Both sides wrapping up arguments for a case that's drawn international outrage. The style savvy defendant even turning heads in court. Wearing an animal print dress. She called herself Anna Delvey, a fashionable globetrotter who prosecutors say was pretending to be a high flying German heiress living a fairytale life of glitz and glam among Manhattan's elite.

A (33:25)

I urge you to come to the only verdict that is in accord with both the law and the evidence. And that is that the defendant is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

G (33:36)

Prosecutors say the 28 year old, whose real name is Anna Sorokin, stole $275,000 from banks, hotels and friends. All part of an elaborate scheme to keep up her illusion of grandeur. Prosecutors also allege Sorkin tried securing a $22 million loan to operate a private club. Claims her lawyer denies.

A (33:58)

I do not believe she had the intent to ever commit a crime. Whether she owes people money, that's a fact of life. That's, that's the reality of doing business.

G (34:06)

New York now facing charges of grand larceny and theft. She could spend up to 15 years in prison if convicted. But officials say even if acquitted, she will be deported to Germany. Sorkin's attorney says she got in over her head but was just buying time until she could pay everyone back.

A (34:23)

You're hearing our buddy Whit Johnson at GMA at abc. Pay everybody back. I saw no signs of paying everybody back. And calling this doing business, that's certainly putting perfume on the pig. Now you know there's a problem. Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor and author of Red Flags when the defense to theft and fraud is fake it till you make it okay. I would not say that that's a valid defense. And a fraud case, you're admitting you're faking it.

D (34:54)

It's probably not a good theme for the defense. One I'm sure they're rethinking right about now. You don't want to. That's kind of playing right into the prosecutor's case now. Probably were trying to do interestingly in trial. And Nancy, you and I have both seen this is really kind of painting this vulnerability picture of the defendant to try to make somebody feel sorry for her, that she was caught up in this false lifestyle, felt she had to pretend she was somebody she wasn't. Who can't relate to that. There's a little bit of Anna in all of us. You know, some of the themes we've seen.

A (35:24)

Whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait. I want to isolate what you just said. The defense argued at trial as if Anna Sorokin, AKA Anna Delvey, was some type of a renegade and a rebel. Someone who was, you know, making her own path in the world creatively. Bs. Don't tell me there's a little bit of Anna Sorokin in me because that was their defense. There's a little bit of Anna in all of us. Oh no. Because she is a fraud, a thief and she ripped people off and they're never going to get repaid. Wendy.

D (36:01)

Right, that's what I'm saying, that. Well, that's probably why she was convicted. Because these defenses are just not realistic to jurors, to hard working jurors and just cannot relate to the fact that we are anything like this picture of Anna. Nonetheless, we have seen this defense time and again and thankfully it is not successful.

A (36:20)

Take a listen to this.

G (36:22)

The courtroom drama played out late into the evening. At one point the jury appeared deadlocked, the defense asking for a mistrial. But then the verdict. Jurors agreeing with the prosecution that Anna Sorokin built her fairytale life on a foundation of theft and lies. Overnight, a New York City jury finding socialite Anna Sorokin, a so called Soho grifter, guilty on eight counts including grand larceny, attempted grand larceny and theft of services. Prosecutors arguing the 28 year old stole a quarter of a million dollars from banks, hotels and friends to fund a lavish lifesty. The jurors obviously believed our point of.

A (37:01)

View and followed our logic and acquitted her of the top charges.

G (37:04)

I'm saddened that she was convicted of some of the other charges. Prosecutors say the Russian born Sorokin, who called herself Anna Delvey, was pretending to be a high flying German heiress living a life of glamour among Manhattan's elite. Authorities say she even forged financial documents hoping to get a $22 million loan to open a private club in the Big Apple.

A (37:25)

A word of legal advice, unsolicited. I'll give it to you for free. Delvey, be quiet. Silence is golden. Keep all those special feelings to yourself and they'll be even more special. We wait as justice unfolds, I predict we have not heard the last from Anna Delvey, AKA Anna Sark. This is an I Heart podcast.