BEAUTY-QUEEN-CHEERLEADER SELFIES, BABY IN TRASH BAG DEAD IN CLOSET

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: BEAUTY-QUEEN-CHEERLEADER SELFIES, BABY IN TRASH BAG DEAD IN CLOSET

Release Date: November 29, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the disturbing case of Laken Snelling, a University of Kentucky cheerleader and pageant winner, who allegedly gave birth in secret, took selfies during labor, then left her newborn son to die—wrapping him in towels and a trash bag, placing the body in her closet, and going out for McDonald's. Nancy Grace and her guests explore the psychological, legal, and forensic facets of the case, drawing connections to similar crimes and questioning societal responses to infanticide.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Shocking Allegations Against Laken Snelling

• Selfies During Labor:

  • Laken allegedly filled her phone with labor selfies, then attempted to delete them to conceal evidence of giving birth.
  • Nancy Grace (02:38): “Snelling's phone was full of images of her during labor...then she deletes, tries to delete the photos in an apparent attempt to hide the birth of the baby.”

• Concealment and Aftermath:

  • After birth, the baby, heard “whimpering” (i.e., alive), was wrapped in towels and a trash bag, stashed in her closet.
  • Snelling then reportedly left her apartment for a meal at McDonald’s.
  • Roommates later found a blood-soaked towel and the bag, leading to the discovery.

• Legal Standing:

  • At the time of the episode, Snelling is not charged with murder but with "abuse of a corpse" and other related charges.
  • She’s released on bond, not required to wear an ankle monitor, and awaiting cause-of-death (COD) findings.

2. The Barbie Fantasy and Disconnection from Reality

• Public Persona vs. Inner Life:

  • Dr. Bethany Marshall analyzes Snelling’s self-description as a “real-life Barbie,” highlighting a psychological detachment from reality and motherhood.
  • Dr. Bethany Marshall (08:44): “This young woman's life is wrapped in fantasy, not reality. The fantasy of having a baby seems a lot more compelling to her than the reality of a baby.”

• Social Media and Image:

  • Laken’s Instagram and pink Barbie apartment are cited as evidence of a superficial, fantasy-based life, prioritizing image over genuine relationships or responsibility.

3. Legal and Forensic Complications in Infant Death Cases

• Difficulties in Prosecution:

  • Former prosecutor Josh Colesrude references the case of Skylar Richardson, another cheerleader accused of neonaticide, to underline the difficulty in proving homicide and the tendency to plea down infant death cases.
  • Josh Colesrude (13:38): “Neonanticide...is extremely difficult to prove because the scientific tests generally cannot say with any certainty that murder was the result.”

• The Forensic Process:

  • Renowned medical examiner Dr. Kendall Crowns explains the procedures for determining whether the baby was born alive and COD:
    • Gestational age, examination for visible trauma or birth defects.
    • The “float test”: lungs are removed and floated in water to see if they’ve taken air (indicating life).
    • Liver float test and microscopic tissue analysis to rule out decomposition or other explanations for lung buoyancy.
  • Dr. Kendall Crowns (28:30): “If they took a breath, the lungs will fill up with air and they could potentially float if you put them in water.”

• Potential for Asphyxiation:

  • Dr. Crowns confirms that placing a live baby in a sealed trash bag is a documented mechanism of asphyxial death.
  • Dr. Kendall Crowns (53:21): “There's not enough oxygen in there for the child to survive. And so they eventually will suffocate by being in a plastic bag. Just as if you put a plastic bag over your head, it would suffocate you.”

4. Society and Justice System Response

• Minimizing Infant Victims:

  • Nancy Grace and panelists continually return to the issue that justice for infant victims is often minimized; charges are plead down, and community outrage is often muted compared to crimes against adults.
  • Nancy Grace (12:45): “When the victim is a baby, somehow it's treated as less important in our justice system.”

• “Pretty for Jail” and Social Privilege:

  • The show's guests explore themes of privilege, questioning whether Snelling’s appearance, race, or social standing produced leniency in bail and pre-trial monitoring.
  • Nancy Grace (43:01): “Could it be that she's young and pretty and rich and white?...Does that factor into that bond decision? Because I think it does. Is she pretty for jail?”

5. Parallels to Other Infanticide Cases

• The show references several other infamous cases (e.g., Casey Anthony, Skylar Richardson, Emily Weaver), highlighting recurring patterns:

  • Babies are often wrapped in blankets, placed in trash bags, and left to die or disposed of, sometimes with attempts at concealment or deception.
  • Motives frequently center on denial, fantasy, inconvenience, or social stigma.

• Dr. Bethany Marshall (38:41): “Women who commit infanticide usually are not attached to the baby when they are pregnant. The baby is like an ‘it,’ a thing. It does not have a personality.”

• Distinctions between “soft kills” (suffocation, neglect) and violent murders are made, but all are regarded as horrifying.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

“After giving birth, the beauty queen cheerleader reportedly stuffs the baby boy in a trash bag, then heads to McDonald's for a tiny bite.”
— Nancy Grace, 02:38

“The fantasy of being Barbie is a lot more compelling to her than the reality of who she is as a mother.”
— Dr. Bethany Marshall, 08:44

“When the victim is a baby, somehow it's treated as less important in our justice system.”
— Nancy Grace, 12:45

“Neonanticide...is extremely difficult to prove because the scientific tests generally cannot say with any certainty that murder was the result.”
— Josh Colesrude, 13:38

“You’re saying one of the first things you do to determine COD...is you do a float test on the lungs...What that means is the baby is sliced open, its lungs are removed, and they're dunked in water.”
— Nancy Grace and Dr. Kendall Crowns, 28:52–29:25

“There's not enough oxygen in there for the child to survive. And so they eventually will suffocate by being in a plastic bag. Just as if you put a plastic bag over your head, it would suffocate you.”
— Dr. Kendall Crowns, 53:21

“Could it be that she's young and pretty and rich and white?...Is she pretty for jail?”
— Nancy Grace, 43:01

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Important Segments & Timestamps

| Segment | Contents | |---------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | [02:38] – [06:20] | Introduction to case details; discovery, evidence, Laken’s background | | [08:44] – [11:31] | Dr. Bethany Marshall’s analysis of “Barbie” fantasy, detachment from reality | | [12:14] – [16:43] | Details of investigation, speculation about roommates, parallels to other cases | | [18:58] – [19:42] | Witnesses (roommates, college friends), denial and visible pregnancy questioned | | [23:16] – [33:33] | Forensic explanation: live birth, float tests, microscopic studies | | [36:07] – [36:33] | Status of case; Snelling charged but not with murder | | [38:41] – [41:23] | Texts from Snelling reveal self-absorption, idealization, lack of maternal attachment | | [43:01] – [43:21] | Nancy on appearance and legal privilege (“pretty for jail?”) | | [46:28] – [55:02] | Reference and comparison to similar “baby-in-trash-bag” cases; mechanism of death | | [53:21] – [53:43] | Dr. Crowns on asphyxiation via trash bag |

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Additional Insights

• Denial and Secrecy: Multiple guests highlight that denial, secrecy, and fantasy play outsized roles in female-perpetrated neonaticide cases.
• Social Media as Evidence: The role of deleted selfies and texts as both evidence and indicators of mental state is emphasized.
• Forensic Realities: Vivid explanations of forensic procedures bring home the physical reality of determining infant COD, evoking strong emotional responses from the host and audience.
• Justice for Victims: The episode closes on Nancy Grace’s plea for justice for the true victim—the baby boy—amidst a case that has thus far centered on the alleged perpetrator’s image and status.

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Conclusion

This harrowing episode of "Crime Stories with Nancy Grace" exposes the tragic circumstances surrounding the death of Laken Snelling's newborn, discussing the psychological, legal, and forensic challenges in prosecuting such cases. The show not only unpacks Snelling's public persona and private actions but also interrogates societal and systemic failures in taking infant deaths seriously. Key experts provide both hard facts and impassioned commentary on the need for justice—both for the overlooked victims and against the glamorization of the accused.

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Transcript

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Is this real? Am I correct? Did Kentucky cheerleader Lakin Snelling actually take selfies while she is in labor while giving birth. Leave the baby to die. Who, by the way, we now learn, was whimpering. Translation was alive. Leave the baby wrapped up in a blanket in a trash bag in her closet, either dead or dying, and then pop out for McDonald's. Ruh roh. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. We are learning from court documents that the Kentucky stunt girl cheerleader, beauty queen Laken Snelling took selfies while she's giving birth just before she secretly delivers her baby, then allegedly leaving it wrapped up in blankets, towels and a trash bag in her closet, and then dashes out to get McDonald's. Okay, according to what we are learning right now, Snelling's phone was full of images of her during labor. Photos of her doing things ordinary pregnant women should not be doing. Now that's according to court documents. Then she deletes, tries to delete the photos in an apparent attempt to hide the birth of the baby. These affidavits are chock full of evidence. Okay, wait a minute. Let's back it up. After giving birth, the beauty queen cheerleader reportedly stuffs the baby boy in a trash bag, then heads to McDonald's for a tiny bite. Okay, we still don't know a cod cause of death on the baby, but we do know that roommates sneak into her room to find a blood soaked towel on the floor and a plastic bag, quote, containing evidence of childbirth. Okay, you can let your imagination run wild with that. Joining me, an all star panel to make sense of what we are learning. And I stunned if another person, an adult, was found dead, wrapped in a blanket, body in a trash bag hidden away. The alleged perp would not be walking free right now with a bedazzled ankle monitor. But that is what has just happened. But let's start at the beginning. Listen to this.

[Podcast Host]

Good evening, representing Jefferson County Bear, I am Lakin.

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Thanks.

[Podcast Host]

Nelly.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Logan attends the University of Kentucky as she's 20 years of age. Her parents were Terry and Michelle Snelling of Morrison. Making the needs list while also being a student athlete, Division 1 athlete on the stunt team at the University of Kentucky. 100 plus community service hours in the past year. Honored to be crowned the Jefferson County Fair Student Fair and being able to represent her county.

[Nancy Grace]

That is from the Jefferson County Fairest of the fair beauty pageant that she won. But can we get to right now and what leads up to the discovery of a dead infant baby boy in her closet? Listen, Lake.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And Snelling is entering her senior year on the cheer stunt team at the University of Kentucky. Snelling grew up in the small town of White Pine Pine, Tennessee where she was the Jefferson County High School varsity cheerleader and crowned Jefferson County's Fairest of the Fair. Snelling is a self proclaimed real life Barbie with an all pink apartment, Barbie Jeep and fabulous clothes and pageant gowns to match. Snelling has an entire Instagram profile dedicated to selling her old wardrobe. Snelling reveals that she is dating another student athlete with an impressive basketball career. Snelling brings her BO home for Easter and over the summer post professional photos with him.

[Nancy Grace]

Why do I care about the boyfriend? I'm trying to figure out who is the biological father of this dead infant and I'm completely intrigued, curious about why so many dead babies are first wrapped in a blanket, a baby blanket very often. Remember top mom Casey Anthony wrapped according to the state, baby Kelly in her favorite blanket before putting her in a trash bag and throwing into a trashy litter ridden swamp area about 10 houses down from the Anthony home. Gee, I wonder who did that. And I see it over and over and over. The infant is wrapped in a baby blanket and left to die or killed and put in a trash bag. There's got to be some sort of psychopathy to that. But you know, I'm also very curious. Straight out to Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us, high profile psychoanalyst, author of Deal Breaker on Amazon. You can see her now on Peacock and find [e-mail] marshall.com. Dr. Bethany, I'm also intrigued. What does it mean, if anything, that you are a self proclaimed real life Barbie? I'm talking about the Barbie doll.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

This woman's life, this young woman's life is wrapped in fantasy, not reality. The fantasy of having a baby seems a lot more compelling to her than the reality of a baby. The fantasy of being Barbie is a lot more compelling to her than the reality of who she is as a mother and out in the world.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, Dr. Bethany, you got me drinking from the fire hydrant here. You gave me so much I've got to parse it. Number one, can we stick with Barbie? You said I was writing as fast as I could. The fantasy of being Barbie to her was being better. Was better than being Lake Snellings. Okay, now wait a minute. What does it mean to be Barbie? It's a plastic doll with fake breasts. Why do you want to be that?

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Because Barbie is beautiful. Barbie is desirable. Barbie is sexually attractive in the world. And the idea that she would be that person, it's like she's wrapping herself in an image, an external image, rather than really focusing on who she is. Does she attend a church? Does she?

[Nancy Grace]

Bethany, Wait, wait, wait. Can I see that video again of her in the fo? I guess that's. No, the foe. That. That. That was. That's very similar to a Barbie outfit my sister had.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

That's right.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay. I was trying to dissect the Barbie dolls, and I dissected all. Well, dismembered all of my sister's Barbie dolls. That was a dark day. That said, I remember that outfit. Barbie had an outfit like that with, you know, faux leopard spots. Okay, just wanted to point that out. Dr. Bethany. I don't know what your Barbie lore is, but I distinctly recall an outfit like that with the matching stilettos. And this is when I was a little girl. The stilettos were in then as well, at least for Barbie. Now, I'm sorry. Back to who wants to be Barbie?

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Who wants to be Barbie as somebody who's more living in fantasy than reality? Hey, Nancy, you. That sound you just played, the inside of her apartment was pink. She lived in a Barbie place. This is a woman who lives in a fantasy world, not a reality world, okay? Barbie is just that. It's a doll. It's not a real person. She does not live her life like a real person. She's living. She's like. It's like cosplay of being Barbie. I'm wondering, would she go to a church? Does she have friends? Is she kind to people? Does she like children in real life? Or was the fantasy of being pregnant and the fantasy of being a mom much more compelling? And then the reality of changing diapers, holding a baby. Babies have needs, you know?

[Nancy Grace]

And I want to clear one thing up. Dr. Bethany Marshall, you can be anything and have played with Barbies as a little girl. My sister that had the Barbies, she's a brainiac. You know, I tried to read something she published. It was just a bunch of formulas with, you know, like, elements. And I'm like, okay, that was great. So I'm not saying there's anything wrong with playing with Barbies when you're a child. I mean, it can be fun, but this is a grown woman that says she's a real life Barbie. Okay, you know what? I've gone down the Barbie trail way too long, okay? That's not gonna help anybody at trial. I want to get to the facts and what we know. Take a listen to this.

[Narrator/Reporter]

10:30Am Wednesday morning, Lexington PD responds to a call about an unresponsive infant found in a student apartment in one of the tenants closets in inside a trash bag wrapped in towels. The baby was deceased at the time officers received the report. Snelling returns to her apartment to find police swarming the unit. Snelling says she cleaned up after delivering the baby to conceal that she had given birth and put all of the cleaning materials in the trash bag with the baby.

[Nancy Grace]

What I'm saying here to Josh Cole Rude. He is a high profile criminal defense attorney, former felony prosecutor, founder of Colesrud Law Offices. Josh, now this is anecdotal. I don't have a statistic on this, but I noticed it over and over and over in the over a decade that I prosecuted felonies when the victim is a baby. Very often you see that case pled down like, oh, you know, they were tired of the baby screaming and they bashed its head on the dresser or they got tired of taking care of the baby or they forgot to feed the baby and it died. And it's often played down to voluntary or involuntary manslaughter. Now, I don't know if you're going to admit to that on the air, but it's true when the victim is a baby, somehow it's treated as less important in our justice system.

[Josh Colesrude]

Well, you know, these cases are tough, Nancy. You know, there's a very similar case that happened in 2017, Skyler Richardson, high profile case in Ohio. It was a cheerleader. And in that case she was charged with murder, with second degree murder. And they went to trial and the prosecution lost. They lost because neonanticide, which is the intentional killing of a baby within 24 hours, is extremely difficult to prove because the scientific tests generally cannot say with any certainty that murder was the result. And so here just don't have enough information yet. The coroner has stated that, you know, that it's inconclusive right now. They are doing additional tests. But I looked into this and the additional tests are all going to have innocent explanations. Number one, I think that the prosecution.

[Nancy Grace]

You go on and on thinking you were going to come back, circle back to the question, which you did not, while you stay, that Brooks Skyler Richardson was found not guilty. Isn't it true that she was convicted of abuse of a corpse? She was not let go. She was actually found guilty, Isn't that correct?

[Josh Colesrude]

Yes, it is.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay. You know, I'm sorry I had to put your feet to the fire on that, but you were suggesting that she walked away scot free. What you did say that I find pertinent is that the forensics couldn't prove murder. Because very often, as you rightly pointed out, Josh Colesroute, it's very difficult to get a COD cause of death in a case like this. But isn't Skylar Richardson the one that buried the baby in the backyard after she tried to burn the baby's body?

[Josh Colesrude]

Yes. And she also admitted that the baby was alive. She told the police that she heard a gurgle and that it was briefly alive. She said this to actually her parents who were in the interrogation room when they didn't believe that the recording was still going on.

[Nancy Grace]

Josh, do you even remember the question I asked you? What you just said made Skylar look even worse. Skylar Richardson, because the baby was alive. She said it was gurgling and alive when she gave birth. Now it's up to a jury to determine how the baby was born alive and ended up burned and buried in the backyard. That said, my question was to you. You know what, I'm going to go to Chris Byers. Chris Byers, private investigator, owner of Byers Investigative Services for my purposes, he is the former police Chief of Johns Creek, 25 years in LA law enforcement. Byers, isn't it true that you guys work the case of the dead baby, but when it gets to court, somehow when the victim is a baby, an infant, it gets played down to involuntary or voluntary? You know, I don't get it.

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

In my experience with any of the cases that I've had like that, they have been pled down and yeah, I can't explain it from the law enforcement side, that's for sure.

[Nancy Grace]

Guys, how did the baby end up wrapped in a blanket in her closet? Do you think it wrapped itself up and went in the closet and died? Joining me now, hermania Rodriguez, Chief US Reporter, DailyMail.com Hermania, do we know if Snellings had roommates? Because I'm trying to figure out who would call 911.

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

Right.

[Hermania Rodriguez]

That's one of the questions that remains unanswered in this case. Police have refused to say whether Snelling had any roommates and who called the police that morning. So that remains open ended. However, there's a lot of online speculation that says it was a roommate that called the police that morning.

[Nancy Grace]

Guys, you are seeing shots of beauty queen cheerleader Laken Snellings. We already know that systematically cases involving victims that are infants or children, but especially infants, are typically pled down and treated as less important than adult victims. I don't get it. You know, I'm just thinking about who called 91 1. How did she keep the baby a secret? Isn't it true, Hermania Rodriguez, that she was, you know, a fantastic athlete? She was a stunt person on the college cheerleading team. And you can see that she's pregnant during her stunts. Let's take a look at video of Lake and Snellings. There you go. That is a baby right there. The bait. The baby is in there. I'm not a medical doctor, but I can see that much. She was still performing stunts as a cheerleader while pregnant. What? You know what? Dr. Bethany Marshall. Denial. It ain't just a river in Egypt. Come on. What. What is this? Bethany, Help me out.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Nancy. Not only is she in denial, the whole team is denial. Is in denial. I mean, who's going to pull a stunt like that when you have a baby in your tummy? Nancy, what this tells me is she was already disconnecting from the baby as she was pregnant. A mother who wants a baby or who has a wanted baby in her tummy is not going to pull a stunt like that because the maternal instinct is to protect your child. Nancy, did you hear what the reporter just said? When she put that baby in the plastic bag, she threw the cleaning material on top of it. She threw trash on her baby. It's. It's so disturbing.

[Narrator/Reporter]

A member of the University of Kentucky stunt team, Lake and Snelling, is driven, admired and hired, hiding a secret that.

[Nancy Grace]

Will crack her dreams. And right now, she is accused of a major felony after her dead infant baby boy is found wrapped in towels and a trash bag in her closet. Straight out to Hermania Rodriguez, joining us from Daily Mail, Hermionia. There are two lines of inquiry right now as to who called 911. And this is important, okay? You may think, who cares who called 911? They found a dead baby in the closet. But does the person that called 911 have other facts and evidence that would be probative? So these are the two lines of inquiry. One report is that roommates became suspicious after Lake and Snelling came back to school at the end of the summer, she didn't look the same as she did when spring semester ended. She looked pregnant. Then on that Wednesday morning, the pregnancy bump was gone. So when she went to class that day, they, the roommates, decided to go into her room and take a look. There are also reports that one of the roommates had a dog that was going berserk outside Lake and Snelling's room and outside of her closet. And because of that, they looked in the closet. Both reports indicate one of the roommates called 91 1. Do you know anything about either of those two reports, hermania?

[Narrator/Reporter]

Right.

[Hermania Rodriguez]

I have seen those reports. One is from a local, and the other one really comes from this Facebook page that is about the case. However, we have gone to police to ask about the circumstances of who called 911, and they still are not ready to release that information.

[Nancy Grace]

Guys, you're seeing video of Lake and Snell, and it's kind of amazing how someone that seemingly has the world at their feet, you know, there's no question she's beautiful, she's vivacious, she's healthy, she's smart. And now she's charged with a felony. I think a lot will ride on the cause of death, but right now, that code remains undetermined. Joining me right now, renowned medical examiner, the chief medical examiner of Tarrant county, that's Fort Worth, Texas, esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU and star of a hit new podcast, Mayhem in the morgue. Dr. Kendall Crown's joining us. What does that tell me? They don't have a COD yet. Cause of death. Let me read between the lines. That tells me there was no visible cod. Like, you could just look at the baby and say, oh, the baby was bludgeoned dead, or the baby was shot or the baby was stabbed, or ligature strangulation or manual strangulation. Maybe even you might need a microscopic exam to determine if there were particular hemorrhage to the eyes. But that tells me that the COD was none of those things. What's happening, Dr. Kendall? Crowns.

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

So typically with the babies that are found in trash bags, you first have to determine if they were born alive. There are certain things that you can look for. One of them is gestational age. If they're under 22 weeks, they probably couldn't have survived being born. If they have this thing called maceration, which is a overall kind of reddish decoloration, sloughing of the skin of the baby, you know, they died in utero. And then finally, do they have any major birth defects, like they have no brain or something of that nature? Then you go from there, and you have to figure out, if you determine that they could have been born alive, then you have to determine if they actually took a breath. And that can be a number of tests that are actually not all that accurate. There's the float test with the lung, but that can be disrupted by decomposition.

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. In the last days, a woman charged in a baby's death pleads not guilty as affidavits reveal claims by police that the Kentucky cheerleader Lake and Snelling actually took selfies while giving birth. I don't really want to think about that, but okay, it's part of the evidence. I have to Then brazenly goes to eat McDonald's while the baby is in her closet. I don't know. By that time, was it dead? Was it alive? We know that. She also says the baby was whimpering. She heard whimpering sounds, which means the baby was alive. Dr. Kendall crowns joining us. Could you please dummy down, man? You said, oh. Unless they did a flotation test. What? Not everybody works in the morgue. Not everybody knows what you're talking about. You just rattled off about 15 medical phrases. I'm surprised you didn't throw Latin at me. Could you just start over and speak regular people talk, please? If not for the listener, for me. Please start over, if you don't mind.

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

So the main thing like I was talking about is they're going to be looking for any signs that the child was living when it was born. So did it take a breath? And if it took a breath, the lungs will fill up with air and they could potentially float if you put them in water. So you could say, oh, that they breathe if the lungs float in water. The problem with the flotation test, Dr.

[Nancy Grace]

Kendall Crown's right there. Right there. You have to explain what that means because that reminds me of when we were first told the Idaho four students that were murdered by Brian Kohberger died in their sleep. It's almost like they drifted off to a lullaby and they woke up in heaven. That's not what happened. They fought for their lives. It was horrible. You're saying the lungs are tested? What I believe you mean is this infant is cut open, its lungs are removed and they're put in water to see if they float. Is that what that means?

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

That's correct.

[Nancy Grace]

You just rattle it off the tip of your tongue like it's nothing. This is a baby. Dr. Kendall crowns that now has to be cut open and its lungs removed from its little body. How big are baby lungs? How big are they? And then dunked in water. How big is an infant's lungs?

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

Well, it depends on how old the baby is gestationally, if they are newborn. If they are a newborn, their lungs are about. Well, a couple inches, maybe.

[Nancy Grace]

Have you done a water test on a baby?

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

Yes.

[Nancy Grace]

I mean, what went through your mind when you're cutting out a baby's lungs that are this big? About the size of a good cup, a kitchen measuring cup. I mean, do you look at it in your hands and think, my stars. What happened?

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

So when I'm doing an autopsy on a baby, it's no different than doing an autopsy in adults. I have to determine the cause and manner of death. And it's just. It is what it is. I have to figure out what happened to this child or happened to the adult, and that's the purpose of my employment.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, I understand that you have to remain detached while you're performing all of this, but, you know, when you just rattle off, and I'm not saying you're wrong, I know for a fact that you're right. But when you say it so methodically, I mean, I got to think this through. Dr. Kendall crowns. You're saying one of the first things you do to determine COD if it's not immediately visible with the naked eye is you do a float test on the lungs. What that means is the baby is sliced open, its lungs are removed, and they're dunked in water. What. What kind of water? What is that in a pan? A sink? What?

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

It's tap water, and it's in a. Basically a big cup.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, we are talking on and on and on. Dr. Kendall crowns about Laken Snellings, and she's a real life Barbie, and she's a stunt person, and she's a cheerleader, and she's gorgeous, and she's missing fairest of the fair. Nobody is talking about the baby boy that's lying on a morgue table getting its chest sliced open, its lungs removed and put in water. Why does it have to be all about her? That's why cases and Josh Colesrude would not answer earlier. Former federal prosecutor. I mean. Okay, Back to you. Dr. Kendall crowns. So you do a lung test, and if the lungs float, that means they had air in them. That means the baby was born alive. Is that where you're going with that?

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

That's correct. I mean, if they've taken a breath, the lungs will Float, but it could also mean they were given cpr. But it could also mean there's decompositional gas formation. So one of the other things you'll do with the flotation test is take the liver, take a section of the liver and place it in the water as well to see if it will float to show that there is or is not decomposition.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. I've never heard this before. A float test on the baby's liver. So now the abdomen is cut out as well. Okay. Why would you do a float test on a liver? Why would there be air in the liver?

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

There would be no air in the liver. So if the liver doesn't float, you know that there is no decomposition. But if it does float, then it puts into question of whether the lungs are floating because of decomposition position or because there's air in them. So then you have to go to microscopic analysis.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, so you compare the float test of the liver to the float test of the lungs. And if the liver goes down and the lungs go up, that indicates the lungs are floating because the baby breathed, not because of decompositional gases. Is that right?

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

Correct. Yes.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay. So that's what's happening to the baby. What else will be examine to determine the COD of this baby? Because this all hinges on the cod. If the baby was dead when it was born, was stillborn, if the. Then there's not going to be a murder prosecution. As Josh Colesride pointed out, a lot is riding on the cause of death. What else will be done? Dr. KendallKrowns.

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

So what else will be done is microscopic analysis or looking at sections of the tissue under a microscope, looking for any disease processes. Also, you'll be looking at the lungs there as well, looking to see if the air sacs or the alveoli in the lungs have filled up with air. The other thing you'll be looking at is the placenta, if it's available, looking at the placenta, looking for any evidence of hemorrhage or loss of oxygen or infarction or infection of the membranes. You'll be looking at the umbilical cord to see if it's normally formed, if it was wrapped around the child's neck, or if it has inflammation as well. And then you'll also be looking for any evidence of trauma, birth trauma, where, like, the shoulder got stuck and they had to pull the child very hard, fracturing the shoulder or separating the neck. You'll also be looking for inflicted trauma, like crushing of the ribs, breaking of the extremities or the long bones of the extremities or crushing of the skull.

[Nancy Grace]

Hermania Rodriguez, DailyMail.com Thinking about and analyzing what Dr. Kendall Krause just said regarding was the baby's shoulder broken or prolapsed when it gave, when it was delivered, other injuries to the baby during delivery, it's my understanding that she had the pregnancy bump one day and the next day, Wednesday it was gone and she went to class. So obviously she did not have any injuries.

[Hermania Rodriguez]

That's right. And while we have not been able to confirm that she told anyone about this pregnancy, as we saw, the images show that she has a visible bump that she then did not have after giving birth. So I think it's safe to say she was probably not injured. And the autopsy report did say that the baby did not have any obvious injuries either.

[Podcast Host]

Good evening. Representing Jefferson County Fair, I am lan Snelling.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Lan attends the University of Kentucky as she's 20 years of age. Her parents are Terry and Michelle Snelling of Morrison. Making a needs list while also being a student athlete, Division 1 athlete on the stunt team at the University of Kentucky. 100 plus community service hours and past year honored to be crowned the Jefferson County Ferry Student Fair and being able to represent our county.

[Nancy Grace]

I want to be very clear at this juncture, Lake and Snellings is not charged with murder. We are waiting on a full and complete autopsy report. A roommate's dog leads to a horrific.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Discovery inside Lake and Snelling's closet. Inside a black trash bag, the remains of a baby boy, along with the evidence used to hide the birth.

[Nancy Grace]

Lake and Snelling is caught on video stating how grateful she is for, quote, family. I don't know if that includes the baby boy found wrapped in towels in a trash bag in her closet, but I want you to see some text that we've uncovered. Here is Lakin Snellings. And if you see her goals, let's see a close up of her goals. Motherhood. Well then that baby is getting fed a bottle by a loving mom with blonde hair like Lake and Snellings. That is not what happened to this baby. And also circled as her goal is a family with two children, an engagement ring, money and a house. What more have we learned? Being 20 is so weird. Like I'm an adult, but I still can't really do anything. But people my age have kids. Well, I think she knows the answer to that. I actually start tweaking at the fact I may only birth boys and never get a girl. That Would be a little small miniature me. My parents had a whole child at my age and I don't even know how to drive onto the tracks of a car wash. Okay, this and watching the kids play in the yard. She seems like she'd be a great mom. How I sleep at night knowing I'm dating the person I'm going to marry. Marriage is scary. What if he doesn't want to put our daughter in cheer the second she can walk? Okay, I need a shrink and I need a shrink right now. Dr. Bethany Marshall. The. Well, they all are significant. Okay, yes, none of this will likely ever come before a jury because they will be deemed not probative. In other words, they're incendiary and they don't really prove anything. Right, but what about the part about I want to have a mini me? What if I only birth boys? Which this was a baby boy and I don't have a girl. I don't have a mini me. That means something. Dr. Bethany. What?

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

It tells me that she's preoccupied with having an idealized life with a little girl who's just like her. That she's very self centered. Nancy. She's wrapped up in her own little world. These texts are not to another person. These texts are to herself. She is preoccupied with herself. Now, women who commit infanticide usually are not attached to the baby when they are pregnant. The baby is like an it a thing. It does not have a personality. Nancy, when you were first pregnant, I remember you told me we're on the set of Court tv. You were so excited. You were attached to your babies. Is called maternal preoccupation when you're attached. She likely was not attached to the baby. She was attached to herself. And she was attached to the idea of an idealized life. There's the ring, then there's the baby, then there's the cash, then there's the house. Oh, there's the family. So this baby probably was getting in the way of some scheme or plan that she already had. Maybe she was getting ready for a prom. Maybe she wanted to wear a wedding dress. Maybe she wanted to find a really rich guy. Or she wanted the perfect wedding and this baby was just inconvenient because the little baby didn't come around at the right time in her whatever her plan was for her life.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, Dr. Bethany, here's something I don't understand. And I'm not saying pro or conversation abortion. I'm not arguing about abortion tonight. That's a whole nother can of worms. But if you don't want the baby. Why wait nine months and give birth and then murder the baby? Why do that? You know, as opposed to terminating the pregnancy in the first three months?

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Nancy, in order to plan for an abortion, you have to be tethered to reality. Reality is that there is a baby inside of you. That baby is growing. That baby will be a person in the real world with real needs. A need for food, a need for love, a need for care. I would doubt that she would even be attached enough to this baby to plan any kind of medical procedure. I doubt she even went to a doctor and got her vitamins or her prenatal care or anything like that. That's one of the more fascinating parts of this story was did anybody recognize she was pregnant? Did her own mother recognize? What about the other people on the cheer team? Or was this sort of a pipe dream about having a baby at some point in her life, but at that point, she didn't imagine herself to be pregnant. She was just dissociated from the reality of it all.

[Nancy Grace]

And again, I'm not going down the pro life or pro abortion rabbit hole, but I want to get back to the facts. Listen to this.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Lake and Snelling pleads not guilty to all three charges levied her and posted her $100,000 bond. Snelling has been placed on house arrest at her parents Jefferson City home. She will not be required to wear an ankle monitor. Her next scheduled appearance in a Fayette county court is September 26th.

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

I understand you've got concerns as far as your release. Just make sure you divide by this.

[Nancy Grace]

Term that from our friends at wkyt. And you heard the judge there at the end. Judge John. John Tackett. Wait a minute. Hermionia. She not only has walked free, but she doesn't even have to wear an ankle monitor?

[Hermania Rodriguez]

That's right, Nancy. The judge ordered her to await trial at her parents home in Tennessee and specified that she would not have to wear an ankle monitor while she awaits her trial.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Why?

[Nancy Grace]

Josh Colesrude, you're the former federal prosecutor. Why not even wear an ankle monitor? Forget the ankle monitor. To hey with that. Why is she out on bond?

[Josh Colesrude]

Well, typically judges have to look at two different prongs when evaluating whether or not to give somebody a bond and if so, how much? The first is, is the person a substantial danger to the community? And the second is, are they as substantial flight risk? And here you're dealing with somebody who doesn't have any problem.

[Nancy Grace]

Could it be that she's young and pretty and rich and white. What about that? Does that factor into that bond decision? Because I think it does. Is she pretty for jail? Because that worked with Deborah Lefebvre. Does that what happens? She's just too cute?

[Josh Colesrude]

Well, in this case, respectfully, she has not been accused of murdering anybody yet. The only charges in this case so far are abuse of a corpse and some lower and some lesser included charges as well. So until the time that the state actually accuses her of murdering an infant child, she's going to be treated as a low level offender.

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Cheerleader Laken Snelling originally tells cops the baby fell to the floor fell on the floor after she gave birth, but she didn't think the baby was breathing or alive, according to the affidavit that we have obtained. She says that she thought the baby was dead and wrapped it like a, quote, burrito and laid next to it on the floor because it gave her a little comfort. What about the baby? She says she woke up 7:30am Put the baby in a trash bag. Yeah, that's normal. Then shower, cleaned up blood, place placenta in a Ziploc bag before skipping morning classes and going for McDonald's. That's what we are learning. But here is the critical moment. Here is the critical she admitted to medical staff the baby had shown, quote, a little bit of fetal movement and made a whimper after he was born. Then she deletes the photo she took while she was giving birth. Investigators believe there could be more images removed from her phone before her arrest. They will have to get that forensically after a search warrant is obtained for her phone. What more do we know?

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

Yeah, I'm going to need you to send a deputy over here to 125 Lakeside. We got a newborn baby. It's been discarded. Looks like it's dead. Okay, this calls on the way too.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yep.

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

Thanks. Bye.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Muskingum University Delta Gamma Theta sisters find a suspicious trash bag just outside the front door. Tearing it open, they make a gruesome discovery. Next to an instant Mac and cheese box lies a dead baby girl. Emily Weaver admits she birthed the baby in the downstairs bathroom of the Theta house.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, in that case, sorority sisters find a dead infant in a trash bag right outside their front door and they immediately suspect Emil Weaver. Listen, the pathologist is going to be.

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

Able to tell the cause of death on the child. And did you do anything physically to.

[Nancy Grace]

No, I didn't do anything physically. I really obviously didn't do much at all. I was more concerned about me than I was if I was my intention, like helicopter. But I mean I would have liked, not put its head up and just let it drown.

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

You know what I mean?

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

That's. It wasn't like I intentionally inflicted harm on kids.

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

You did. Did you try and keep her alive?

[Nancy Grace]

I didn't do anything to keep her. And then you add on Emily Weaver's texts that she had been arguing with the BF boyfriend for about a month about the quote situation. And then after just a few hours after giving birth, sends a text, no more baby taken care of. The baby was asphyxiated. Suffocated, dead. Prosecutors argued she intentionally killed the baby by putting the baby in the trash where it suffocated. And she was sentenced to life. That's what happened there. So I'm just thinking through the having the baby and doing nothing to keep the baby alive. Not just that. Putting the baby in a trash bag wrapped in a towel, as in this case. Could that have been the cause of asphyxiation in the case in chief? Now, that case was about Emily Weaver. But then there is Alexi Chavizo.

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

We had the lady come to clean the bathroom. She put the baby in the trash can, and then she put another clean liner over the top of it. So they look when they looked in there, it looked. There was no trash in there, but it was underneath the clean bag.

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The baby's dead.

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

Okay. We have him in trauma, too. But she killed the kid? Yeah. How old was it? How this would be? I don't know. It's full term. She just had it. She had it in the bathroom was what happened.

[Nancy Grace]

And then she.

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

Whatever she did. I don't know if she's going to lie. She wouldn't tell us she's pregnant. She's been lying the whole time.

[Nancy Grace]

So she goes in the bathroom, pregnant, and then suddenly the baby's gone. And it's underneath the clean bag near the trash can. There's more. We discovered a dead baby in the bathroom. Oh, my gosh. I'm sorry. I came up at me and I didn't know what to do. Lexi, I told you about this. I just asked you baby to tell me the truth. It was not crying or Nikki.

[Veracity Self Care Advertiser]

And nothing was crying.

[Nancy Grace]

It came out with nothing. Do you guys have.

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

I'm the charged nurser. Do you guys have any questions for me?

[Nancy Grace]

Like, how big is the baby? It's full term, what, nine months? Something was crying. Let's see. Have you watched the news of the girls that what they do to their babies and when they go to jail? Who's crying? Doctor Bethany Marshall. What's with that?

[Veracity Self Care Advertiser]

Mom.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

The mom seems more concerned about her daughter than her grandbaby. It's really concerning. And you know, this is what we call, Nancy, a soft kill. When women kill their babies, usually it's suffocating them, poisoning them. Whereas with men it tends to be some more of overt physical violence. So this is just a soft kill. And the mother never says, oh my God, my grandbaby. Those words do not come out of the mother's mouth.

[Nancy Grace]

I don't like anything you just said. Soft kill. Those words don't go together. Imagine how awful it would be to be murdered by, let's just say asphyxiation. Then imagine if you're a baby, you can't speak, you can't move, you can't run away, you can't fight back. You have to just lay there and die with something held down over your nose and mouth. And to Dr. Kendall, crowns. Soft kill my rear end. Could this baby have died by asphyxiation? Simply by the baby being wrapped in towels and put in a trash bag? Could that have asphyxiated, suffocated the baby?

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

Yes, we see that occasionally with full term infants or babies that are beyond the 23 week gestation. The mother places it in the trash bag and seals the trash bag, throwing it in the trash. There's not enough oxygen in there for the child to survive. And so they eventually will suffocate by being in a plastic bag. Just as if you put a plastic bag over your head, it would suffocate you.

[Nancy Grace]

And then to Chris Byers, private investigator at Byers Investigative Services, I want you to hear this case similar, and it's one brought up by Josh Colrud. It's Skyler Richardson. Is your bedroom upstairs or bathroom upstairs? Okay. So you had to walk downstairs? I had to clean myself up a little. Are you carrying her?

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[Nancy Grace]

Did you go into the garage or do you have an outdoor shed? Like where you have a shovel? Oh, my gosh.

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

Okay.

[Nancy Grace]

When. What did you find or what did you use? I just put a little hole in.

[Veracity Self Care Advertiser]

My backyard and put her in.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, I understand. What did you do?

[Narrator/Reporter]

Did.

[Nancy Grace]

Did you have. And you didn't have any help, Right? Okay. What did you do with her while you were digging the hole? And Chris Byers in that particular case, Skylar Richardson. Dad asked, tell us what's going on. And she says, I tried to cremate the baby. Just a little. She tried to burn the baby? Chris.

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

Yeah. That is absolutely mind blowing. That level of evil, I just can't even imagine. Just all of these cases, we see just the level of selfishness and self absorbedness in these girls. And just treating these babies just like garbage just absolutely blows my mind.

[Nancy Grace]

Like garbage in every way. Putting babies in trash, throwing them in dumpsters. I want you to hear it from the horse's mouth, Chris. Here's Skylar Richardson stating that she tried to cremate the baby just a little. He says you have to tell us you're 18. I tried to cremate the baby just a little. You tried to cremate the baby? Yeah. I want to be very clear at this juncture, Lake and Snelling is not charged with murder. We are also learning that her roommates could hear her giving birth and then snuck in when she left to go to McDonald's to find the baby stuffed in her closet. Hours later, Snelling reportedly tells the roommates the noise they heard was when she, quote, fell over passing out from a routine illness. When the roommates find the baby in the closet, they tell the dispatcher at 911 the infant was, quote, cold to the touch. After her arrest, Snelling withdraws from school and is no longer a member of the stunt team. Hey, she's got bigger problems than that. Leaving the stunt team, Lake and Snelling needs to consider life behind bars and what that will be like. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friends.

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[Podcast Host]

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[Nancy Grace]

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[Nancy Grace]

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