BIG WIN FOR RICH KID WHO MOWS DOWN 4 PEPPERDINE SORORITY SISTERS: RPT

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: BIG WIN FOR RICH KID WHO MOWS DOWN 4 PEPPERDINE SORORITY SISTERS: RPT

Date: April 11, 2026

Overview

In this emotionally charged episode, Nancy Grace dissects a high-profile vehicular homicide case: Frazier Bohm, a wealthy Malibu native, is accused of killing four Pepperdine University sorority sisters—Niamh Ralston, Peyton Stewart, Asha Weir, and Deslin Williams—in a horrific crash while allegedly driving at 104mph in a residential area. The show explores recent legal developments (including a controversial judicial decision favoring the defense), the human cost of the tragedy, the mechanics of the case, and legal arguments poised for trial. With testimony from the victims’ friends, legal experts, accident reconstructionists, and trauma specialists, the episode blends legal analysis with raw grief and calls for justice.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Tragedy: What Happened?

• Crash Details:

  • On Oct. 17, 2023, four sorority sisters, Alpha Phi members, were struck and killed by a speeding BMW on Pacific Coast Highway (“Dead Man’s Curve”), allegedly driven by Frazier Bohm at over 100mph.
  • The victims were walking from their parked car to a sorority-fraternity mixer, not in the roadway but on the shoulder ([19:11], [33:45]).

• Eyewitness & Law Enforcement Reports:

  • The BMW swerved off the road, hit several parked cars, which then pinned the girls ([04:00], [19:28]).
  • Bohm attempted to flee the scene, only to be apprehended by partygoers who held him down until police arrived ([21:59]).

2. Legal Developments: A "Big Win" for the Defense

• Controversial Ruling:

  • Judge Thomas Rubenson ordered prosecutors to return Bohm’s cell phone to his defense team and provide extensive discovery, including 128 local accident reports ([16:17], [53:33]).
  • Prosecutors opposed handing over the phone, worried about possible tampering; Nancy and guests express outrage, referencing cases like Alex Murdaugh’s where digital evidence was crucial ([03:10], [16:17]).

• Possible Defense Arguments Previewed:

  • Vehicle Malfunction: Defense posits possible car malfunction, though experts are skeptical ([24:04], [30:46]).
  • Road Rage Instigation: Claim that another driver triggered the crash; disputed by evidence/interviews, with traffic cams expected to refute this defense ([25:00], [26:35], [28:26]).
  • Blame on Road Conditions/Infrastructure: Defense cites “Dead Man’s Curve,” poor lighting, and lack of guardrails ([37:33]). Nancy counters this as a civil liability argument, not a defense for criminal homicide ([38:13]).

3. Victims’ Lives and Grief: Voices of Friends

Bridget Thompson and Coco Crandall—Roommates and close friends of all four victims:

• Night of the Accident:
  • Recap haunting hours at the scene, being unable to get information, sitting on the curb, and later comforting the victims’ parents ([05:37]–[14:03]).
• Aftermath:
  • Both describe being unable to return to the shared apartment, faces haunting last memories, and grasping at closure ([14:03]).
  • Heartbreak of living without their friends; shared rituals and cherished memories ([48:46]–[51:13]).
• On Dreams:
  • Both have vivid dreams where the victims reassure them; bittersweet comfort and ongoing grief ([51:13], [58:49]).

Memorable Quotes:

“When I left there, I could still picture them right now. They were all sitting on the couch… We spent every second together, so I couldn’t imagine going back without them.” —Bridget Thompson ([14:03])
“Any day with them… was just such a dream. I know I can speak for Bridget and I, we would give anything just to have one more day with them.” —Coco Crandall ([50:44])

4. Legal Analysis: Charges, Intent, and Causing Death

• Intent and "Abandoned & Malignant Heart" Theory:
  • Nancy argues for murder charges based on gross reckless conduct constituting implied malice—driver’s extreme speed in a residential area is enough to prove intent per California law ([39:00]–[42:13]).
  • Defense attorney Brian Claypool responds, detailing the high bar for murder and arguing for accident or negligence—but Nancy forcefully contests, quoting legal language favoring the prosecution ([40:09], [41:20], [42:13]).

Notable Exchange:

“The law presumes the defendant intends the natural consequences of his act...” —Nancy Grace ([41:26])
“Every defendant in a criminal case is entitled to a defense...” —Brian Claypool ([24:04])

• Evidence from the Vehicle:
  • Accident reconstruction expert Joseph Tremblay explains how data from the BMW’s “black box” shows deliberate acceleration from 93 to 104mph just two seconds before the crash ([29:45], [56:36], [61:18]).
  • Suggests any attempt to mitigate impact was minor; overwhelming data supports prosecution narrative ([57:49]).

5. Medical Facts: The Horrors of High-Speed Impact

• Autopsy Insights:
  • Dr. Kendall Crowns, forensic pathologist, describes the gruesome, often prolonged suffering when pedestrians are struck at such high speeds ([35:15], [52:10]).
  • Many crash victims may have lain alive and dying; impact causes traumatic amputations and massive internal injuries.
  • High-speed pedestrian fatalities are rare outside highways—this was a residential area, making the case even more shocking ([36:31]).

Memorable Quote:

“At that high rate of speed, the body will flip up over the car and then fly through the air… You’ll get traumatic amputations… High-speed velocity pedestrian accidents are very gruesome events.” —Dr. Kendall Crowns ([35:15])

6. Emotional Fallout & Healing

• Psychological Toll:
  • Trauma expert Karen Stark counsels Coco and Bridget to keep talking about their friends and advocating for change, stating grief never fully disappears but sharing stories can help ([47:19], [59:47]).
  • Dreams interpreted as the subconscious’s way to hold onto loved ones and seek closure ([59:39]).

Memorable Quote:

“The more they talk about what this person did, the better they’re going to feel… That hole in the heart never closes. But over time, it gets better.” —Karen Stark ([47:19])

7. Broader Context

• Pattern of Accidents in Area:

  • The defense is seeking crash data from similar incidents near “Dead Man’s Curve,” hoping to dilute Bohm’s responsibility ([53:55]).
  • Nancy and experts dismiss this tactic, holding Bohm’s individual choices as the central cause ([54:46]).

• Victims’ Promise and Future Lost:

  • Each girl’s academic and personal achievements highlighted—business student, future vet, writer, TikTok intern—exemplifying “lives full of promise stolen in seconds” ([60:28], [61:18]).

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Notable Quotes (by Speaker and Timestamp)

• Nancy Grace ([02:19]):
  “Intent to commit a crime can be formed in the blink of an eye, a twinkling of a moment... It is no accident.”
• KTLA 5 Reporter ([03:39]):
  “A red BMW speeding down the PCH, going at least 100 miles per hour, suddenly swerves and slams into parked cars. Partygoers scream as the parked cars are shoved into Nev, Peyton, Asha, and Deslin.”
• Bridget Thompson ([14:03]):
  “I couldn’t imagine going back [to the apartment] without them… It was truly heartbreaking.”
• Brian Claypool ([24:04]):
  “Every defendant in a criminal case is entitled to a defense, whether we like that or not.”
• Joseph Tremblay ([29:45]):
  “He was going 59 over the speed limit. That’s more than double the speed limit.”
• Dr. Kendall Crowns ([35:15]):
  “High-speed velocity pedestrian accidents are very gruesome events… traumatic amputations… organs ruptured or lacerated as well.”
• Nancy Grace ([41:26]):
  “The law presumes that you intend the natural consequences of your act.”
• Karen Stark ([47:19]):
  “The more they get involved, the more they talk about what this person did, the better they’re going to feel... That hole in the heart never closes.”
• Coco Crandall ([51:13]):
  “Some of the dreams felt so real… Sometimes just like cry together from our dreams because they felt so real.”

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Crash Recap & Legal Basics: [00:46] – [04:10]
• Friends’ Experience Night of Crash: [05:37] – [14:03]
• Defense Arguments & Legal Analysis: [16:17] – [26:35]
• Road Rage & Error Refuted: [26:35] – [29:45]
• Accident Forensics & Speed: [29:45] – [36:31]
• Medical Forensics: [35:15] – [36:55], [52:10] – [53:26]
• Legal Theory of Implied Malice: [39:00] – [42:13]
• Victims’ Lives & Grief: [48:46] – [53:26]
• Evidence Chain & Car Data: [56:36] – [58:49]
• Dreams and Trauma Interpretation: [58:49] – [60:28]

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Conclusion

This episode masterfully interweaves case facts, human grief, legal maneuvering, and expert analysis. The emotional testimony from surviving friends, the detailed walkthrough of the law, and the passionate insistence by Nancy Grace on accountability for the “rich kid” who “mowed down” four young women, create a powerful narrative around both the tragedy and the quest for justice.

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For a complete understanding of the legal, forensic, and emotional dimensions surrounding this case, this episode is essential—and a clarion call for accountability, empathy, and change.

Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

And, Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

[Nancy Grace]

Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Brian Claypool]

Oh, no.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Nancy Grace]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league anyways.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

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[Nancy Grace]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Four gorgeous coeds dead.

[Nancy Grace (Crime Stories Segment)]

Why? According to prosecutors, because Frazier Bomb mowed them down. Mowed them down on the side of the road. Now, Baum pled not guilty to four counts of second degree murder and four counts of vehicular homicide with gross negligence. Now, the lawyers are also arguing that it's all the state's fault, but in the last days, and a major defeat for the state for the crime victims. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Many people call drunk driving or vehicular homicides an accident.

[Nancy Grace]

It is no accident.

[Nancy Grace (Crime Stories Segment)]

It is a willing decision to drink. Order the next drink, and the next and the next. Then get your keys, walk to your car, turn the ignition, reverse, drive, and go out onto the highway. Those are multiple decisions made with intent. And that is what is required under the law for an intentional murder intent. As all of you legal eagles know, intent to commit a crime can be formed in the blink of an eye, a twinkling of a moment. As I always tell juries, in the

[Nancy Grace]

time it takes to raise a gun

[Nancy Grace (Crime Stories Segment)]

and pull the trigger. That's time to form intent. It does not require a long, drawn out plan, such as poisoning someone bit by bit over weeks and months until they kill over dead. No, that is not the legal definition of intent. That may be the street definition, the street vernacular, but not under the law. In the last days, Fraser Baum has a big win in the Pepperdine murder trial. A judge orders prosecutors to hand over his phone that he refused to unlock for police, even though prosecutors fear, rightly, that he could tamper with that phone. FYI, bomb. We can find out what you delete. Okay, Remember Alex Murdaugh?

[Nancy Grace]

Let that be a lesson to you.

[Nancy Grace (Crime Stories Segment)]

First of all, what happened when these four coeds were mowed down dead?

[Malibu Times Reporter]

Four beautiful young college sorority girls in their early twenties with bright futures set out for a fun night in Malibu. But in a shocking turn of events, that evening soon became a nightmare Joining

[Nancy Grace]

us tonight, in addition to an all Star panel are two dear friends of the victims. But first, listen to this.

[KTLA 5 Reporter]

The four females were pronounced dead. I have seen the Alpha Phi sisters arrived to signal Mackay's party and are waiting outside when a red BMW speeding down the PCH, going at least 100 miles per hour, suddenly swerves from the road and slams into parked cars. Partygoers scream as the parked cars are shoved into Nev, Peyton, Asha and Deslin. While bystanders call 911 and attend to two others injured in the crash. The BMW's driver gets out, stumbling away from the mangled cars.

[Nancy Grace]

So. So don't bother telling me he was too out of it or injured to know what he is doing. Under the law, that is called flight. I'm sure veteran trial lawyer Brian Claypool will argue with me about that. What you heard earlier was from our friends at Malibu Times. Four beautiful coeds in the prime of their lives standing there minding their own business, are mowed down at speeds of 104mph in a residential area. Now, will a rich brat manage to escape justice, having just hired a controversial defense attorney that helped Karen Reed get an acquittal? Again, with me, an all Star panel. But first, I want to go to two very special guests. Bridget Thompson, roommate and bestie with the Pepperdine crash victims, and Coco Crandall, also roommate and best friend of the crash victims. You know, to Coco Crandall, I don't call it an accident, because when you put your foot to the pedal and exceed 104 miles per hour, that's no accident. This is a crash. Tell me what you know, Coco, about the night of the deadly crash that stole your friends from you.

[Coco Crandall]

Yeah, I remember getting a call that night saying, you know, don't freak out. There's been an accident. And we think it was Ash's car. So I immediately drove down there. I was like, they have no family. All their family's out of. Out of state. You know, they need someone. And Bridget met me and Bridget met at the scene or as close to the scene as we could get, but we just sat on the curb all night, not really knowing what was going on. But then, you know, news broke. And once we hadn't heard from them for a couple hours because we were always in contact with our friends, we knew that something was wrong.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm just imagining you, Coco Crandall, sitting there on the curb. And I've got to tell you, I've been to so many crime scenes and seen family and loved ones and best Friends like you literally sitting on a curb because there's nowhere to go, there's nowhere to sit, and you just sit there, kind of suspended in time and space, just waiting. It's like everything comes to a standstill, Everything seems to stop, and you're just waiting, waiting to hear something, to know something, to find out something. Bridget Thompson, also with us, roommate and bestie of the crash victims. Bridget, what do you recall about that night?

[Bridget Thompson]

Yeah, for me, I actually was supposed to be with them that night. I had cheer practice that night and ended running a little late. So I texted them and let them know that I'll just meet them there. And as I was on my way, I got a call as well. And it was kind of the same, along the same lines as Coco and just that there was an accident and the girls aren't answering. I tried calling all of them, but none of them answered. And like Coco said, I went over to the scene and tried to do whatever I could, but at that point, it was just such a helpless feeling.

[Nancy Grace]

Bridget, when you got to the scene, what did you observe?

[Bridget Thompson]

Well, we couldn't get past, like, the police officer that was blocking us off. So really it was just a bunch of stopped cars and a police officer standing there. And then in the distance we saw a bunch of sirens, ambulances, but nothing other than that.

[Nancy Grace]

Did anyone or could anyone tell you what had happened?

[Bridget Thompson]

Not directly. There was things coming out in the news because there was quite a bit of news coverage on it. And that's kind of how we found out our information. We heard there was four dead, six involved, so we were praying that hopefully we only lost two of our friends with that math, but unfortunately, that just wasn't the case.

[Nancy Grace]

Bridget, did you try and question the police or try and ask anyone any questions?

[Bridget Thompson]

We definitely did, but we knew that there wasn't really information that they could give us.

[Nancy Grace]

What did you do? Who did you try to speak to? What time of the night was this?

[Bridget Thompson]

The crash occurred at 8:30pm we were trying to speak to just the police officer standing, you know, blocking off the scene. And then we were calling hospitals all night, trying to see if we could locate them anywhere because at this point we didn't know that they had died at the scene in a hospital. Just wasn't necessary.

[Nancy Grace]

Coco Crandall also joining us in addition to Bridget Thompson. Coco, were you there sitting on the curb waiting for answers as well?

[Coco Crandall]

Yeah, yeah. So Bridget and I happened to get there around the same time, and we both were pleading to the officer to let us through to give us any insight on what was going on. And we're like, we know those are our friends in the scene. We can track them. We see they're not quite at the party. And yeah, like Bridget said, they couldn't really give us any answers. So we just sat there for hours, you know, calling hospitals and asking if they had our friends tracking them. And probably, I mean, like Bridget said, I don't know if I even fully remember a time, but I think it was around 1pm or 1am and then we went back to Pepperdine's campus up until, you know, 6am the next morning when more information was released.

[Nancy Grace]

Who told the girl's parents?

[Coco Crandall]

Originally, the school was the one to break it to them, but the parents, I mean, you know, mothers know when something's wrong. And so a lot of the parents. Parents were also calling and just saying, hey, you know, what's going on? Where's my. Do you know where my daughter is?

[Bridget Thompson]

Whatever.

[Coco Crandall]

But the court, it took a while for the coroner to confirm what had happened. So the couldn't officially, you know, tell the parents right away because they had to wait for the officials to confirm it.

[Nancy Grace]

Bridget, when did you first see or speak with the girl's parents?

[Bridget Thompson]

I was in touch with some of them over the phone the next day. So early in the morning on October 18, I. Someone came up to my room and said, nev's parents are downstairs. They want to talk to you. And I just broke down because that was like a realization to me.

[Nancy Grace]

Oh, my stars. I cannot even imagine going down and trying to speak to the parents. And the parents were there in the apartment, the place that you guys shared?

[Bridget Thompson]

No, I didn't go back to that immediately. Never went back to that apartment. I briefly said, bye, but they had us in a hotel room on campus.

[Nancy Grace]

When you first saw the parents, what happened?

[Bridget Thompson]

It was hard. They were obviously a mess beside themselves. They were unclear of what had happened exactly. So I tried to give them all the information that I knew, but it was a situation that I wouldn't wish on anyone. It was really, really heartbreaking.

[Nancy Grace]

Coco, what do you recall?

[Coco Crandall]

Yeah, I, like Bridget said, remember the parents coming up? They came so fast. And I remember when Ash's parents came because they had flew from the east coast and there was just so much sadness and grief and heaviness all around. And I just remember walking outside the hotel and meeting her in the parking lot and we just held each other and cried. And I remember seeing her brothers and there was just a lot of tears shed and eventually we got to kind of all sit in a room together with, you know, all the parents and Bridget and I and some of our close friends as well. And we tried to just, you know, tell their parents all amazing memories that we've had with them at school and how wonderful they are and just share, you know, more about our. How Malibu was a happy place for them.

[Nancy Grace]

It's just reminding me so much of when my fiance was murdered. When you're trying to. In those first hours and days after it, it doesn't seem real. Your head knows it's real, but the rest of you doesn't know it's real. And you're, like, remembering events together, things you did together. I don't know if that's some sort of comfort or solace to your mind as you try to absorb what has happened. Bridget, you stated you did not go back to the apartment. Why?

[Bridget Thompson]

Oh, I just couldn't. I mean, when I left there, I could still picture them right now. They were all sitting on the couch. We were laughing. Giggling. I told them I would see them after cheer practice. And we had so many amazing memories in that apartment. We. I mean, we spent every second together, so I couldn't imagine going back without them. It was. And when I did, just because I felt like I needed that for my closure. When I walked in our apartment, it was clear that they were meant to come back. It was clear they had their pajamas set out on their bed, their lights still on. They were. They were meant to come back. I just. It was truly heartbreaking.

[Nancy Grace]

The night you were at the crash scene, girls, did you see the defendant?

[Bridget Thompson]

No, we did not.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

[Nancy Grace]

Hey, everyone. Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Brian Claypool]

Oh, no.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual.

[Nancy Grace (Crime Stories Segment)]

Together.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Nancy Grace]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

Anyways, only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty.

[Nancy Grace]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Mom, can you tell me a story? Sure. Once upon a time, a mom needed a new car. Was she brave? She was tired, mostly. But she went to Carvana.com and found a great car at a great price. No secret treasure map required.

[KTLA 5 Reporter]

Did you have to fight a dragon?

[Nancy Grace]

Nope. She bought it 100% online from her bed, actually. Was it scary? Honey, it was as unscary as Car buying? Could be. Did the car have a sunroof? It did, actually. Okay, good story. Car buying. You'll want to tell stories about. Buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

[Nancy Grace (Crime Stories Segment)]

A judge orders prosecutors to hand over a cell phone belonging to an accused killer. The BMW driver, Frazier Baum, accused of mowing down four coeds in a horrific crash on Malibu's Pacific Coast Highway. Now, at the time of the arrest, cops seized the phone after bomb 24 refused. Spoiled brat. Refused to give them the passcode and unlock it. Niam Ralston, age 20. Asha Ware, 21. Peyton Stewart, 21. Deslin Williams, 21, all dead. Prosecutors have been unable to get any information, practically none from the phone. Because they didn't have the passcode, they refused to return it, claiming Baum could modify, alter or delete the data on the phone. Of course he can. Well, the judge ordered it back to him anyway. The thought of what those four girls and their families went through and are going through is pure H E double L crime stories.

[Nancy Grace]

Investigative reporter Dave Mack. Who is the defendant?

[Dave Mack]

His name is Frazier Bohm. He is a 23 year old rich kid growing up in privilege in Malibu in an 8.7 million dollar seaside mansion. He was driving his 18th birthday present, a BMW. And he is a former athlete, was a pitcher in high school and pretty privileged young man.

[Nancy Grace]

Nancy, why do you say that? I'm looking at a picture of him and apparently a shirtless selfie. Can we circle back to that, please? And he's got rings on every finger. He's dripping in silver jewelry. What did you say about a $7 million what?

[Dave Mack]

An $8.7 million seaside mansion with a view of the Pacific Ocean. A beautiful view of the Pacific Ocean, actually. And by the way, also a $700,000 vacation place out near Palm Springs.

[Prosecutor]

In this particular incident, we lost four young people with a complete life ahead of them for really no reason other than complete and reckless disregard for the life of others. So Niam Ralston, Payton Stewart, Dessaline Williams and Asher Ware were seniors at Pepperdine. And they were minding their own business, just being in the neighborhood where their school is. And they lost their life unnecessarily between

[Joseph Tremblay]

2 and a half to 4 and a half seconds prior to the collision. The defendant's vehicle was at a speed

[Nancy Grace]

of 104 miles an hour. KTLA 5.

[Malibu Times Reporter]

Loved by all who knew them, the four young women were more than best friends. They were sisters bonded through Pepperdine's alpha fee. While they were Planning a glamorous night out. One young Malibu man would change the course of their night.

[Nancy Grace]

Exactly what happened the night that these girls were mowed down dead by a BMW traveling at rates of that we know of 104M p. H. They're standing on the side of the road. They are not in the road waiting to enter a college party. Now they're dead. Four gorgeous, young, innocent, beautiful girls. They're gone. Nimh, Peyton, Asha, Desert, gone. Tonight we're analyzing why. You know, I'm saying gone. Let me say it correctly. Why? They're dead. They're dead. And don't you know their parents are wondering the same thing. You just met two of their best friends that they lived with. It could have been them too. It didn't matter who was standing there. It didn't matter how young or innocent or vivacious or how scrubbed in sunshine they were. It didn't matter to the defendant who was driving his brand new BMW given to him by mommy and daddy at least 104 miles per hour on October

[Prosecutor]

17 at around 8:30pm Mr. Bond was allegedly speeding up, speeding at the speeds of 104 miles an hour on a 45 mile an hour zone on PCH. When he lost control of his BMW. He allegedly crashed into a parked car before crashing into four pedestrians standing together on the side of the roadway. All of the young women died at the scene.

[Nancy Grace]

To top it all off, it's a fixed object. Out of everywhere you could drive your car, you plow into a fixed object and then into four young girls.

[KTLA 5 Reporter]

And listen to this party host Sigma Kai Brothers, tackle the male driver to the ground and hold him there until police arrive.

[Nancy Grace]

I just saw some people taking him out of the car and holding him down on the curb and everything else. And he was just yelling and screaming. From our friends at KTLA 5 joining me, veteran trial lawyer, defense attorney Brian Claypool, managing partner, Claypool Law Firm, author of Break the Code of Silence, Raising my Voice to protect our Kids, Brian Claypool. He tried to get away. That's called flight under the law. So don't tell me he was out of his mind or he was depressed or he hit his. He tried to get away, Brian. That's damning. Under the law, the guys had to tackle him and drag him back.

[Brian Claypool]

Look, this is a heartbreaking tragedy. I mean, we all have kids, but we can't measure how a young man is going to react to a traumatic situation. It's not like he hopped in a buddy's car and was driving to The Mexican border. Why are you making that up?

[Coco Crandall]

In San Diego?

[Nancy Grace]

Why are you making that up? It's not like he hopped in a buddy's car. Maybe he would have, but he didn't have a buddy's car there. So he did all he could do and he took the Pat. The Pat and Turner Pat the street and turned the corner. He tried to run. Isn't it true, Claypool, that that is evidence of guilt? Flight is evidence of guilt when you try to get away from the crime scene as fast as you can?

[Brian Claypool]

Right? No, you're right. And that's why Alan Jackson has a tough case ahead, too. It's not just because he won the Karen Reid trial. Remember in that case there, you couldn't even establish the manner of death. In that case, Brian Claypool.

[Nancy Grace]

This is not about Karen Reed, okay? I'm talking about these four young girls and this guy trying to get away from the scene. That's what I'm talking about. So let me try to get the car back in the middle of the road. Could you address him trying to leave the scene and I haven't even gotten to the crash yet.

[Brian Claypool]

Yeah, Nancy, look, you're right. Flight is evidence of guilt. Doesn't matter how rich this kid is. Every defendant in a criminal case is entitled to a defense, whether we like that or not. So what he's likely going to argue in defense of Bohm is the following. Was there a potential malfunction in his car? They're going to expect examine the car. How did he go from 94?

[Nancy Grace]

I'm sorry, I just coughed up my hot tea. A malfunction in the car like lead foot. Like his foot on the pedal. What possible malfunction? You know what? I'm glad you said that because I happen to have an accident reconstructionist with me, a renowned one, which I'm going to follow up with what you're saying. But I like that. Go ahead, spin me some more gold. Rumpelstiltskin. Accident, malfunction. Go ahead. I can't write fast enough.

[Brian Claypool]

Yeah, well, the other argument that his previous lawyer made was he was involved in a road rage incident. So that's going to be investigated by Alan Jackson. And if there was a road rage incident.

[Nancy Grace]

Let me make sure I understand what you're talking about. You're talking about the mystery vehicle. The mystery vehicle that was chasing him that nobody's been able to find on any of the road cam. That. That car.

[Brian Claypool]

Yeah, that's the car. Right. And that's what they'll look into.

[Nancy Grace]

They're going to have to look really hard, really hard. It may take a little, let me just say editing to find that mystery car that he's claiming. Something along the lines of he cut somebody off because he was texting and the guy got mad at him and so he, boom, ran away as fast as he could so he wouldn't be injured, and then crashed and killed the four girls. That's one of his arguments.

[Brian Claypool]

Hey, Nan, real quick, one other argument I think Jack has to do with anything. One of his other arguments. My job is to tell you what a defense lawyer.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, hold on. Dave Mack joining me. I want to follow up on everything Claypool is saying, because while I don't buy any of could be a defense that they try to raise at trial, and the best thing the prosecution can do is be ready for that defense and be prepared to shoot it down when it rears its ugly head. Dave Mack, tell me about the MIS mystery road rage incident.

[Dave Mack]

There's a man named Victor Calandra. He's a resident of Malibu for over 35 years. He's driving his 2016 GMC 2500 pickup truck in close proximity to Fraser.

[Dr. Kendall Krauns]

Bomb.

[Dave Mack]

Bomb. And he says that Boem was speeding and driving in and out of traffic, and they actually caught up to one another right at Sunset Boulevard toward Topanga. And that's when Calandra said he's trying to get Bomb's attention at the light to tell him to slow down. And Bohm never acknowledges him. And when the light turns green, Bomb accelerate with extreme, I think is what the term was extreme acceleration up the road. Calandra couldn't. Was not. He was right there at the light with him, but did not keep up with him as Bohm takes off and it seconds later when the accident happens. And it is Calandra who actually was yelling at BOM at the crash scene, and that's who they're claiming was actually road rage, when in fact he was telling him to slow down.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, there's going to be footage of that. Dave Mack, what stretch of the road was the alleged road rage incident where now we're learning from the other driver, he was trying to motion to boom to slow the hay down. But what stretch of the road was this?

[Dave Mack]

Well, we're dealing with, you know, stretch of the PCH that is called Dead Man's Curve, which is actually a long stretch there, but it's an area of the PCH that is just beyond Sunset Boulevard toward Topanga. And the erratic vehicle in this case being driven by Bone was at the Las Flores Canyon Stoplight. That's where they caught up. So it's a very short area where they actually caught up at the light, where. Calandra.

[Prosecutor]

You know what?

[Nancy Grace]

You just. You just made me so happy, Mac, which typically does not happen in a case like this, but you just made me so happy because. To Joseph Tremblay joining me, senior Forensic engineer, Accident Reconstruction with Veritech Consulting Engineering. Tremblay. That was music to my ears because I heard pch, Pacific coast highway, and we all know it is dripping in traffic cams. I heard Dead Man's Curve, which, as I recall, has signs posted. The curvy nature like beware on Dead Man's Curve. And also, the speed limit there is greatly, greatly reduced because of the. The curves. Also, I heard Dave Mack from Crime Stories state the intersection at Los Flores Canyon Stoplight. I bet you they have a traffic cam as well. I mean, I'm hoping they do, because this could corroborate the witness's story. It could corroborate the defendant, but I don't think it is. What does all this mean to you, Tremblay?

[Joseph Tremblay]

When I look into a case like this, I start with the evidence of the scene itself. And in this particular area, it's a very windy part of the road, and those winds in the road require certain steering inputs which would require a tent of driving, essentially. And I want to reiterate the fact that in this particular area, there are cautionary signs indicating that a turn is ahead, but the speed limit in that area is 45 miles per hour. And I'll do the math for you. He was going 59 over the speed limit. That's more than double the speed limit.

[Nancy Grace]

Hold on, Tremblay. I did a little research last night, and we found out that in some of those spots, it's actually 35. There's also some 45s, but in spots where he was, it's actually 35 miles per hour.

[Joseph Tremblay]

Yeah, that's an incredible excess of speed. I'd like to also point out that the dynamics of this impact suggest that he contacted three other cars. Those cars have significant damage. There's actually photographs of those vehicles that he contacted. And to be honest with you, those cars probably diminished the impact severity that he produced against these four lovely young women.

[Nancy Grace]

So, Joseph Tremblay and regular people talk. What you're saying is the cars he crashed into to start with were a barrier, a buffer to the victims, and they would have suffered even more had he not crashed into those cars to start with. 104 miles per hour that's correct.

[Joseph Tremblay]

This is just such a severe impact.

[KTLA 5 Reporter]

The four females were pronounced dead. I have seen the Alpha Phi sisters arrive to Sigma Chi's party and are waiting outside when a red BMW speeding down the PCH going at least 100 miles per hour suddenly swerves from the road and slams into parked cars. Partygoers scream as the parked cars are shoved into Nev, Peyton, Asha and Deslin while bystanders call 911 and attend to two others injured in the crash. The BMW's driver gets out, stumbling away from the mangled cars.

[Nancy Grace]

From Malibu Times.

[Malibu Times Reporter]

In a chilling turn of events, 22 year old Fraser Bohm tore through the infamous stretch of Pacific coast highway known as Dead Man's curve, doing over 100 miles per hour in a 45 mile per hour zone. He was behind the wheel of his luxurious BMW, allegedly fleeing from a road rage altercation when his recklessness would create a nightmare no one could have imagined.

[Nancy Grace]

A BMW brand new to him, just gifted to him by his parents. Joining me now, in addition to Karen Stark, renowned forensic psychologist Dr. Kendall Crowns. Joining us, chief medical examiner, Tarrant County. That's Fort Worth. Star of a brand new hit podcast, Mayhem in the Morgue. He is a star esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU and has performed literally thousands, thousands of autopsies, accidents, natural causes, suicides and homicides, including vehicular homicides. Dr. KendallKrans, thank you for being with us. The girls standing there minding their own business, waiting to go into, I believe, Bridget and Coco, it was Sigma Chi party. Was that where they were headed?

[Karen Stark]

Yes, it was a mixer. It was like an event for our sorority. It wasn't a party.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay? What's the difference?

[Karen Stark]

There was no drinking involved.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay. I knew there had to be a difference because when you put the Sigma Chi's and the Alpha fees together in one place, it sounds like a party to me. So why Coco Crandall, were they waiting outside to go in?

[Coco Crandall]

So they weren't. From our understanding, they weren't necessarily waiting. They actually had parked their car. If you're familiar with pch, you only can park on the street. So they parked their car, car, got out of their car and were walking to the house to go to the mixer. And in the process of walking, that's when they were hit.

[Nancy Grace]

Got it, Got it. So they're walking into a mixer.

[Coco Crandall]

Wow.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay. Dr. Kendall crowns. I just wanted to make sure I understood what they were doing, you know? Another reason I wanted to know, Dr. Crowns? Because so often somehow the victims turn out to be the bad guys in the media and with the defense. No offense, Brian Claypool, I know you do everything you can to help your client, but Dr. Kendall crowns, they were A, not drinking, they were B, on the side of the street walking into the Sigma Chi house for a non alcoholic mixer. I just want to be very clear. All dressed up and their party outfits having all gotten ready together back at their place, they all shared with our guests. I mean, Dr. Kendall crowns, you know what time it is, right? I'm looking at colleges right now for the twins and hearing something like this just pushes me over the edge. Dr. Kendall, Krause, what happened to these girls when they were hit by a couple of tons of metal at 104 miles per hour?

[Dr. Kendall Krauns]

What happens when a car is going at a very high rate of speed and it hits a pedestrian? Initially the bumper comes into contact at about your knee level and folds your knee in, causing your thigh to strike the upper portion of the front of the car and that pitches the body onto the hood. The head hits the hood or the windshield and at that high rate of speed, the body will flip up over the car and then fly through the air and land on the ground. Now one of the other things when you're having someone drive at that high rate of speed is you'll get traumatic amputations. Amputations where the legs will be severed from the point of impact and then just kind of spread out all over the roadway. You also might see, depending on their height, amputations at the hip area, bodies cut in half and even potentially from the speed with the head hitting the windshield, decapitation. There'll be massive internal injuries, fractures of all the extremities, ribs, pelvis, and then the organs themselves will be ruptured or lacerated as well. It's actually high speed velocity pedestrians accidents are very gruesome events.

[Nancy Grace]

Dr. KendallKrauns, how many cases like this have you worked?

[Dr. Kendall Krauns]

So pedestrians struck by vehicles are fairly common. We see them at least probably once a week. But high speed pedestrians struck by vehicles are very rare because mostly most of the time pedestrians aren't on the highway and most people aren't driving their cars at 104 mph when they hit a pedestrian.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm glad you mentioned that last comment. I'm going to circle Back to you, Dr. Kendall Crowns, for more of an in depth analysis of what the victims may have lived through. But Brian Claypool joining us, veteran trial lawyer, managing partner, Claypool Law Firm, joining us out of California. Did you hear what he said? Very rarely are victims walking on a highway where high speed crashes normally happen. This was not a highway. And they were walking along the edge of a pedestrian street where the mph was 35.

[Brian Claypool]

Yeah, hey, Nancy, I get that, but I think what Alan Jackson's going to do in this case is he's going to go after the county of Los Angeles and or the city of Malibu. I think it's likely the county for failing to adequately maintain that road. What I mean by that, Your entire show, you've mentioned probably four or five times, Dead man's curve. It was also called Hell's Corner. The county's on notice that this is a dangerous curve. Why wasn't there better lighting? That's what he's going to argue. And he's going to argue also. Was there a guardrail here? I don't think think there was. And if there wasn't, there should have been. And that might have minimized the impact and this tragedy might have been averted.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, at least you're going down swinging. You're going to try and blame bad lighting and no guardrail and push it all off on the county. Okay, that sounds more like a civil lawsuit claim where you're trying to distribute the monetary damages. I'm talking about a criminal trial for vehicular homicide. I'm sure, Claypool, that you are familiar with the abandoned and malignant heart theory. Under the law, which rises to. I would like this to be prosecuted as murder, not vehicular homicide. Because of the abandoned and malignant heart theory. Malice, murder, murder. One can be proven in many different ways. One is, of course, when you say, I'm going to kill you, Claypool, I've had it. And I take a gun, hold it up and shoot you dead. Okay? That is clear extrinsic and implicit evidence of intent to murder. There is another theory called abandon and malignant heart. What does that mean? Here's an example. You drive 104 miles an hour through, let's just say a street festival that's been blocked off, where people are selling food and homemade items and crafts, and there are 200 people there on a Sunday afternoon drinking lemonade and eating kebabs, and suddenly here you come, Claypool, 104 miles per hour, plowing through the street festival, and you kill people. That shows an abandoned heart. In other words, you have a heart which is abandoned. Empathy for other people, and you do something so insanely reckless it equals murder. That would be my argument to this jury. And you're trying to blame Bad lighting. I respect that.

[Brian Claypool]

Well, look, look, I respectfully disagree on. On that. That my argument applies to a civil case. You know as well as I do you've got to prove causation, even in the murder case here. And what Jackson is going to argue is there could be concurrent. Concurrent causation. And here's another point. In order to prove murder in this situation in California, to prove causation, what's called implied malice, not that he intended to drive over these young women, you've got to prove that he acted in such conscious disregard for the lives of others that he knew that it was likely that these young women would die. And what Jackson is going to argue is that wasn't in his frame of mind, that he didn't intend on doing that. Didn't intend on trying to.

[Nancy Grace]

Buddy, again, you just made me so happy because you said he didn't intend it. But isn't the black and white letter of the law, which will be read to the jury in jury instructions just after closing arguments, that the law presumes the defendant intends the natural consequences of his act? Isn't that true?

[Brian Claypool]

Yeah, I'm not sure if that's a jury instruction in California. You could try to make that argument as well.

[Nancy Grace]

Let me refresh your recollection. It is the what you want to do that you want to do. The natural consequence of your act.

[Brian Claypool]

Look, if this case goes to trial, Boem is going to have to testify to try to refute. Let's assume you're correct, Nancy. Then he's going to have to testify to tell a jury what was going on in his mind at the time of this incident. And that's really what Jackson is going to have to do.

[Nancy Grace]

I don't care what's in his mind. Why do I care what he's thinking?

[Brian Claypool]

You should care because the first question Jackson is going to ask him, did you intend on driving off the side of the road to kill these young ladies? That that is relevant in this trial to refute your abandoned heart theory. It is, Nancy.

[Nancy Grace]

Abandoned heart means you act with such gross negligence with a malignant heart that you kill others. What you're thinking does not go as far as called negligence. You're not thinking, hey, I want to kill four girls all dressed up in their party dresses to go to the Sigma Chi mixer. You don't have to think that if I go into the Mall of America with an Uzi and start firing, I don't have to know who my victims are. I don't have to mean to kill Them that is an abandoned and malignant heart and that is murder. But I just looked it up just to make sure I was right. And guess what? I am. The law presumes that you intend the natural consequences of your act. And it's called in your jurisdiction, non target offense liability. You don't. Just like I said, if I take a piece of thin china so fine you can see through it and I throw it to the ground. Wow. What did I intend to do, break it? When you drive 104 miles per hour in a residential area where people are by the road, the natural consequence of your act is a crash. Let me ask you, Coco Crandall and Bridget Thompson. First to you, Bridget, have you ever been in that area before? Have you ever seen the Sigma Chi house?

[Karen Stark]

Yes, absolutely.

[Nancy Grace]

And is it a residential area? What's around it? Are there homes?

[Karen Stark]

Yes, it's 100% a residential area. It's lined on both sides with homes.

[Nancy Grace]

Are there other fraternity homes, sorority homes on that street?

[Karen Stark]

There is one, but it's not like a, a Greek row or anything. But there's definitely residential.

[Nancy Grace]

So they're private residences.

[Karen Stark]

Yes.

[Nancy Grace]

So good luck with that. Brian Claypool. That there needed to be a guardrail to prevent this horrific deadly crash. You're going to blame a guardrail or bad lighting? Oh, I can't wait.

[Brian Claypool]

Well, one other thing I would do if I'm Jackson is again, I disagree as to the as the state of mind of Bong. I think you have to ask him why did he go from 93 miles an hour to 104 miles an hour? That gets to your, your defense. I mean, if he has some rational explanation as to why the car accelerated 10 miles an hour in a short amount of time, he might be able to get over this abandoned technical legal.

[Nancy Grace]

He's an A hole. Did they teach you that at Harvard Law School? An A hole?

[Prosecutor]

The defendant knew his actions were dangerous to human life and deliberately acted with conscious disregard for human life, committing four counts of implied malice murder in this case. I can't say this enough. We have to realize that when we're driving a car, we have the potential of killing others. When we're driving at hundred plus miles an hour on a 45 mile per hour zone, the only reasonable conclusion that could arrive out of that behavior is harming others.

[Brian Claypool]

I told her that the greatest threat to her young vibrant life and her future goals was a motor vehicle accident, which is still the leading cause of death in her age group at that time. I asked her that since I've lost the argument.

[Nancy Grace]

You were just saying. Deslin's dad, Desmond Williams speaking. And that's my friends at Pepperdine University, YouTube trying to make sense of a nonsensical tragedy. He's one of eight parents devastated tonight. While we're on air, they're at home sitting in their gyms and around their supper tables looking at an empty spot. Maybe they're sitting in the girl's bedroom. Maybe they're driving by their apartment thinking about what was. I want to go to two very special guests, but first to Karen Stark joining us, forensic psychologist, renowned TV radio trauma expert. You can find her@karen stark.com. she has dealt with so many survivors trying to make sense of a new normal. Karen, please, what is your advice to these two girls joining us today?

[Karen Stark]

I think that they need to do exactly what they're doing, Nancy. They have to keep talking about this. I'm so glad they're on the show. I'm very sorry that this happened. But the more they get involved, the more they talk about what this person did, the speeding, all of the neglect, the better they're going to feel. It will never, ever go away, unfortunately. Don't we know that? I think everyone knows that that hole in the heart never closes. But over time, it will get better. Just keep spreading the message that this is terrible and should never have happened. And remember your friends, girls.

[Nancy Grace]

When I first moved to New York to start off at Court tv, Karen and I would watch trials together in a dark studio and we would talk about what the victims had gone through. Do you remember that, Karen? All those years, 11 years in those dark studios. And she's right. It won't go away. It changes. You don't cry every single day. But probably right now, that's still your situation. And Karen, please jump in whenever you have a suggestion. Bridget and Coco, tell me about what life was like living with these beautiful girls. First to you, Bridget.

[Karen Stark]

Yeah, Life was nothing short of perfect. When I met them, my life literally changed. They were the most amazing people I have ever met and I think I will ever meet. They made every day a better one. They knew how to pick me up when I was down. They were always a shoulder to cry on. It was. It was just the best to live with them. To wake up to their good mornings every morning to go to bed, hearing their goodnights. I just miss it a lot.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, it struck me, Bridget, that when either you or Coco went back to the apartment, I believe it was you. Their PJs were still lying out on the Bed where they had placed them to hop into when they got home.

[Karen Stark]

Yeah, they were.

[Nancy Grace]

Coco, tell me about a typical day that you would have waking up with these beautiful girls.

[Bridget Thompson]

Yeah, it was.

[Coco Crandall]

I mean, it literally felt like a dream every morning getting to wake up with them. They are, like Bridget said, they are the bestest of friends. And I don't think we'll ever find friends like that again. They're truly. I don't even think most people are lucky enough to have friends like we did in their whole lifetime. But we would wake up, and we always had a playlist that we would play mornings, and we would wake up, open the curtains, let the sun shine in, just sit in our PJs, make breakfast, play music. We lived, obviously, in a great area, so we'd walk to the beach. We'd spend a lot of time either on walks along Zuma beach or at Point Dune. Spent a lot of time in the water, just swimming around. And then I feel like we always would go get dinner at our favorite Italian place in Malibu. And, I mean, it's such a simple day, but any day with them, whether we were doing nothing or anything and everything was just such a dream. And I know I can speak for Bridget and I, like, we would give anything just to have one more day with them.

[Nancy Grace]

Do you ever dream about them?

[Coco Crandall]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so after the accident, because I lived with Deslin, and Bridget lived with the rest, Bridget and I moved in together afterwards into a different apartment and would be like, we both had dreams, and it felt so real that both of us were like, we don't want to ever wake up because we just want to keep dreaming. And some of them felt so real. Some of them were dreams about them coming back and telling us, like, hey, we're okay. We're in. We're. We're in a spot. And, you know, it happened so fast, and, like, I want you guys to know we're okay. And so Bridget and I would just wake up and sometimes just, like, cry together from our dreams because they felt so real. But then we'd wake up, and it's just hard to, you know, keep going in life without them, you know, I feel like we were just in a really big denial stage for a really, really long time.

[Nancy Grace]

But Dr. Kendall crowns. It wasn't that way. It wasn't just all so fast. They laid there and died. You talked about severed limbs. You talked about horrific impact at 104 miles per hour. They didn't just die just like that.

[Dr. Kendall Krauns]

Well, that is very true, Nancy. It really all depends on where they got hit and what was initially damaged. Now, of course, the initial impact that could sever limbs, could cause a person to go flying over the car, but not hit anything else. Their head would be intact and they would be laying there with a traumatically amputated limb bleeding out on the roadway. It really all just depends on what organ system got hit and at what point was their head engaged or their neck engaged or how quickly they may have died. And it can be one of those situations in which just the lower extremities were severed or crushed or whatever, or their pelvis was crushed and they just laid there slowly bleeding out and nobody could help them because of the amount of damage that was done.

[Nancy Grace]

Crime stories with nancy grace.

[Nancy Grace (Crime Stories Segment)]

An LA Superior Court Judge Thomas Rubenson made a decision and ruled that the LA Sheriff's Department has to hand over a cell phone to a lab of defense hired experts who will download data.

[Prosecutor]

Hmm.

[Nancy Grace (Crime Stories Segment)]

That phone handed over to the defense. The judge also ordered the district attorney to turn over to the defense thousands of pages of accident reports, witness statements, info on the 128 non fatal crashes that happen near the scene of the deadly crash going back 10 years. Now, why did they do that? I believe the defense is going to argue that it wasn't their client's fault that he killed four people. It was the road's fault that the engineers had laid it out negligently and because of the accidents. That should prove it's not their client's fault to kill four people. Okay, let's see how the jury feels about that. Let me refresh everyone's recollection.

[Nancy Grace]

Joseph Tremblay, senior forensic engineer, accident reconstructionist at Veritech Consulting. How do you go into this scene knowing what you know, having heard Bridget and Coco and Karen and Dr. Crane. How do you go in and perform a hard cold evaluation that will hold up in court to explain to a jury what happened? What do you do?

[Joseph Tremblay]

Well, I have to look at the facts, I have to look at the evidence. And I think it's fair to say in this situation at that excessive speed, this was no longer a car accident at that rate of speed, and the collision that occurred would cause severe damage. I mean, he's probably lucky himself that he didn't have any injuries from this. This is so severe. And you know, one of the nice things we have in this situation is so much evidence and so much data. In particular the data from the vehicle itself, which will corroborate his speed. It'll corroborate his pre impact navigation and whether or not he attempted any sort of maneuver to avoid this collision. So there's a lot of evidence that's going to be presented at trial and I think it's going to be very elucidating for this particular crash.

[Nancy Grace]

Tremblake, what do you mean you're going to get a lot of evidence from the car itself? I got a lot of evidence in the Alex Murdaugh case from his nav, his navigation system, which was awesome. You can't really argue with the nav system in your own car. What evidence are you talking about?

[Joseph Tremblay]

Well, that's a great question. And there is a lot of evidence from a navigation unit individually. But in addition to that, modern cars are constantly recording data. Every car out there, it's a federal mandate that they record data. And that particular data is tied to the airbag system. In the event of an airbag deployment, the car decides whether or not to deploy the airbags based on things like vehicle speed, steering inputs, braking inputs, things like that. And that data is stored on the car that can be retrieved. In this particular crash, that data was retrieved by the responding officers and that is most likely the way that they determined the impact speed and then also the way that they determined the pre impact acceleration that was done by Mr. Bohm and his apparently completely absent attempt to avoid this crash Trembloy.

[Nancy Grace]

I know that the arriving officer saw skid marks and smoke. What does that mean?

[Joseph Tremblay]

Okay, that may actually suggest a small maneuver or braking attempt to potentially mitigate the crash. I'd have to look into that even more. If it was a skid mark, that would suggest potentially maybe a steering input or a braking input to decelerate slightly before impact. However, that also kind of depends on how the crash unfolded itself. The data will provide a very solid basis for all of that. And the nice thing about that data is that it's been admitted in many different court cases. It's very solid. It's hard to argue that data. I'm sure Mr. Jackson will probably make a very honest attempt to kind of reduce the credibility of that data. But it's just very solid. It's been used a lot and it's a very valuable piece of evidence Here

[Nancy Grace]

to Bridget Thompson joining us, roommate and bestie with the crash victims. Do you ever dream about them?

[Karen Stark]

Yes, I have had many dreams with them and it is an amazing feeling to feel like you get to be with them one more time. But it's hard to wake up and know it's just not the truth.

[Nancy Grace]

In the dreams, what's happening? What are they saying?

[Karen Stark]

Sometimes they'll reassure us that they're okay. Sometimes they'll be like, it's okay, I'm okay now. And I'll try to convince them to stay and they'll be like, I have to go back. I have to go back. It's a really crazy feeling.

[Nancy Grace]

Karen Stark what do these mean? What do these mean? What's happening in the girls psyches?

[Karen Stark]

It's a case of them trying to preserve the friendship with the girls and this is actually wonderful because a lot of people when they lose someone, they want to dream about them. You have a chance to revisit, even to say goodbye, which I'm going to suggest to both of you that you tell yourself you want to do that when you have the dream again to say goodbye to them. And the whole idea of being with them again, it's all beautiful and very, very fortunate. I'm glad they're having those dreams. I know that when you wake up it may be upsetting, but take it like a message that your friends have come and they're visiting with you.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Pepperdine University seniors Nev Raulston, Peyton Stewart, Asha Weir and Deslin Williams, four Alpha Phi sisters, get ready for a Sigma Chi party at their apartment. The girls are incredibly close. After moving in together sophomore year, the women connected freshman year and became inseparable. The Pepperdine victims are a star athlete, future vet, TikTok intern and an aspiring writer. Nev, a 20 year old business student, was an excellent gymnast, cheerleader and pole vaulter who who competed in the CIH championship. Deslin was on a pre veterinary track with deep empathy for animals. Peyton spent her sophomore year at Pepperdine's London campus, landing her dream internship with TikTok before returning to campus for senior year. Asha was studying, writing and passionate about the dynamic landscapes of the fashion and music industries.

[Nancy Grace (Crime Stories Segment)]

Four beautiful young girls died Oct. 17 when Baum, driving a red BMW his mommy and daddy gave him for his 18th birthday, smashed into three stationary vehicles. Fixed objects in the parking lane on the highway next to where the girls were walking, minding their own business. The speed limit was 45 miles an hour. But the black box from his BMW, the toy his parents gave him showed he accelerated from 93 mph to 104 mph just two seconds before he mowed the girls down. That is not the highway's fault. That is Baum's fault according to prosecutors. But I guarantee you these parents have spent every dime possible to get high powered lawyers to beat the rap.

[Nancy Grace]

Will it work?

[Nancy Grace (Crime Stories Segment)]

We wait as justice unfolds.

[Nancy Grace]

Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friends. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.