BIZARRE EXCUSE FROM CLERK WHO DESTROYED ALEX MURDAUGH'S MURDER CONVICTION

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: Bizarre Excuse from Clerk Who Destroyed Alex Murdaugh's Murder Conviction

Date: June 27, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the shocking reversal of Alex Murdaugh's double murder conviction, with a spotlight on the South Carolina court clerk, Becky Hill, whose alleged jury tampering unraveled the verdict. Nancy Grace and a star panel of legal experts, investigators, and figures close to the case analyze the bizarre lawsuit Murdaugh filed against Hill and dissect the legal, forensic, and emotional fallout, including renewed death penalty considerations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Reversal of a ‘Perfect’ Conviction

• Background: Alex Murdaugh was convicted for the murders of his wife Maggie and son Paul, but the South Carolina Supreme Court overturned the conviction due to alleged jury tampering by court clerk Becky Hill.
• The Lawsuit: Murdaugh has filed a civil suit against Becky Hill for $600,000, claiming her actions cost him legal fees and tainted the verdict (03:36, 08:09).
• Panel’s Take:
  • Nancy Grace and her guests, including defense attorneys and journalists, express skepticism toward Murdaugh’s suit, questioning its legal legitimacy and motives (10:34).
  • Nancy Grace: “He should be sending her a fruit basket.” (10:15)

2. Examining the ‘Bizarre’ Excuse from Becky Hill

• Hill’s Defense: She asserts she is protected by “quasi-judicial immunity,” arguing a judge (or someone acting in a similar capacity) can’t be held civilly liable for such actions (29:47).
• Legal Panel Analysis:
  • Mark Pepper (Defense Attorney) explains Section 1983 claims, supporting the basis for suing a state actor for rights violations (11:01).
  • Discussion ensues about the likelihood of a jury awarding any damages to Murdaugh.

Notable Quote:
Mark Pepper (12:12): “But for her jury tampering, in his mind, he would have been acquitted... now owe me the $600,000 in costs.”

3. Evidence Against Alex Murdaugh & Death Penalty Considerations

• Forensic Details: Dr. Kendall Crowns provides graphic autopsy findings underscoring the brutality of the murders and supports the argument for “aggravating circumstances” in a potential death penalty case (16:11, 54:37, 58:04).
  • Maggie: Five gunshot wounds, execution-style injuries.
  • Paul: Two shotgun blasts, “blew out his brain.”
• Renewed Death Penalty:
  • South Carolina’s AG now considers seeking the death penalty in the retrial; previous moratorium had prevented it. The panel believes the aggravating factors—multiple victims, lying in wait, financial motivation—are clearly met (40:01, 54:37).
  • Dave Mack, Investigative Reporter: “Everything that is needed to try this as a death penalty case is right there.” (55:27)

4. Panel Reactions: Motives, Manipulation, and Familial Impact

• Housekeeper’s Reaction:
  • Blanca Turabiate Simpson, former housekeeper, emotionally recounts visiting Maggie and Paul’s grave after hearing about the reversal; stresses that the “spotlight” obscures justice for the victims (19:53, 22:18).
• Murdaugh’s Character:
  • Dr. Bethany Marshall (Psychoanalyst) and Chris McDonough (Cold Case Foundation) describe Murdaugh as a skilled manipulator, drawing sympathy even as he “sat around and let everyone console him, knowing he committed the double murders” (31:56).
  • Marshall links the legal maneuvers and the new lawsuit to a lifelong pattern of exploiting others’ resources (32:20):

    “What he perennially has to do is steal from the next victim to pay the victim from before. That's exactly what he's doing with this court case.”

  • McDonough: “This guy set this entire thing up ... he has no capacity to understand what it’s like to have empathy.” (36:20)

5. “Some Other Dude Did It” Defense

• Strategy for Retrial:
  • Defense is expected to point toward “third party guilt” (50:47).
  • Mark Pepper: “You’ve just got to create the reasonable doubt by pointing to someone other than the guy sitting in the defense chair next to you ... that's what we criminal defense lawyers do and do quite well in South Carolina.” (52:34)
  • Nancy Grace ridicules the idea, suggesting it’s a recycled and discredited tactic after Murdaugh’s infamous staged roadside shooting (53:23).

6. Looking Ahead: Retrial and Public Reaction

• No Plea Expected:
  • Panel consensus: “0.0% chance” that either side will accept a guilty plea or plea agreement—this is going to trial again (38:12).
• Possible Outcomes:
  • The retrial may be even more contentious, with the state prepared to pursue harsher penalties and the defense pivoting toward elaborate alternative-suspect theories.

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Memorable Quotes

• Nancy Grace (06:01): “There will be no way in he doublel … it will freeze over before Murdoch puts one toe on the stand after his disastrous first appearance.”
• Mark Pepper (11:01): “The legal theory is very simple. In our country, under section 1983 ... when you have her purposely directly influencing the jury ... that opens her up to a claim.”
• Dr. Kendall Crowns (16:11): “She was essentially shot to her knees and then executed … The son, on the other hand, he's shot twice with a shotgun ... blowing out his brain as well.”
• Dr. Bethany Marshall (32:20): “What he perennially has to do is steal from the next victim in order to repay the victim from the time before. So that is exactly what he's doing with this court case."
• Blanca Turabiate Simpson (22:18): “I believe he was convicted based on the evidence ... But unfortunately, the limelight and the stardom got involved ... here we go again."
• Chris McDonough (36:20): “He has no capacity to understand what it's like to have ... empathy."
• Dave Mack (55:27): “Everything that is needed to try this as a death penalty case is right there.”
• Gigi McKelvey (56:42): “I think that they will go for the death penalty just to really sock it to him for having to do this twice.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:36 – Context of Murdaugh’s lawsuit against Becky Hill
• 10:34–12:12 – Legal theories underlying the lawsuit and panel debate
• 16:11 – Autopsy findings and evidence supporting the death penalty
• 19:53–22:18 – Housekeeper’s personal perspective and impact on victims’ memory
• 31:56–33:48 – Psychoanalysis of Murdaugh’s manipulative behavior
• 38:12 – “Zero percent” chance of a plea; retrial expected
• 40:01–41:12 – Why the death penalty is now back on the table
• 42:23–44:20 – Recap of Murdaugh’s staged roadside shooting and defense patterns
• 50:47–54:09 – Panel discussion of the “Some Other Dude Did It” defense
• 54:37–55:27 – Death penalty aggravating factors
• 58:04 – Autopsy recap

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Conclusion & Episode Tone

The panel delivers an unflinching, sometimes sardonic breakdown of courtroom drama, legal maneuvering, and the dark psychology at play in the Murdaugh saga. Nancy Grace’s frustration is palpable: “He should be sending her a fruit basket,” (10:15) and her guests echo outrage and skepticism about the justice system’s twists and the endless revival of pain for the victims’ families.

Final Thoughts:
This episode captures the high-stakes countdown to a retrial—the legal fireworks, media spectacle, and raw emotions that continue to swirl around South Carolina’s most infamous family tragedy.

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Transcript

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. In the last days, we learned the

[Legal Analyst / Narrator]

bizarre excuse from a previously competent court clerk who destroyed double killer Alex Murdoch's murder case. This while she dodges a lawsuit.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm Nancy Grace.

[Legal Analyst / Narrator]

This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

That's right, the South Carolina court clerk

[Legal Analyst / Narrator]

who destroyed Alex Murdoch's double murder conviction has offered an excuse for why the civil lawsuit against her should be thrown out. What lawsuit? Alex Murdock sued the clerk, Becky Hill, over claims she interfered with the jury that found him guilty of killing his wife and son. Now I believe the evidence convicted him.

[Nancy Grace]

If he wants to blame it all

[Legal Analyst / Narrator]

on Becky Hill, fine. But Alex Murdock has sued the South Carolina court clerk for $600,000. He claims she swayed Girard to convict him and that she should pay legal costs. Some people think he should be paying her $600,000 because he's getting a new trial on a double murder conviction. That said, what do the facts reveal?

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The Supreme Court ruled unanimously that Alex Murdock's trial was not fair, that the jury tambourine affected the verdict.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

With all of that evidence, how could

[Legal Analyst / Narrator]

they vote any other way?

[Legal Commentator / Analyst]

Alex Murdaugh is a liar and a thief and a generally despicable human being.

[Tony Ayo]

I really think the only thing they had his voice being on the Snapchat.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Whoopsie. Be careful what you ask, dear, for you will surely get it. That should be the phrase ringing in Alex Murdoch's ears about right now. He appealed his double murder conviction. It was reversed. He got what he asked for. But now the South Carolina attorney general has said, you know what? We think the death penalty may be in order in this case. Joining me, an all star Panel to make sense of what we are learning. That and so much more. As his fleet of defense attorneys say, it will be a game day decision whether Murdoch takes a stand. Are you kidding me?

[Nancy Grace]

There will be no way in he doublel.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

And speaking of h e double, it will freeze over before Murdoch puts one toe on the stand after his disastrous first appearance. Let's watch him snotting on the stand, please. The. The quivering, the snotting, the pinching oneself to make oneself cry on the stand knows no end. Take a look at this. Mark Pepper, you're the veteran defense attorney joining us at.

[Karen & Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

Oh,

[Legal Commentator / Analyst]

yep,

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Wltv. Boy, that had to hurt. I saw that happen. And Mark Pepper. I can't unsee it. I can't unsee it. Please, please, please put him back on the stand. What do you think?

[Mark Pepper (Defense Attorney)]

I think you'll get your wish. I think his ego will not allow him to not take the stand, much less take the advice of his own attorneys. As you may recall, both Mr. Harpootle and. And Mr. Griffin advised against him taking the stand. But that's not Alec. Alec is convinced that he can convince a juror of 12. What we saw that day, I hope to not see again. But I suspect we will see it, and probably relatively soon once the plaintiff rests. Once the prosecution rests, I think they'll call him right quick.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

You know what? Two times around you're thinking Murdoch is going to make an encore performance. You know what? I'll burn that bridge when I get there. But I am. I'm going to go over to the courthouse right now, and I'm lying on the front row. I'm not moving until Murdoch gets on the stand because I need the front row. Last time I was sitting behind the one surviving family member, Buster Murdaugh, and his now wife. And I had to keep moving around to see what was happening because I didn't want to watch one. I didn't want to miss one fake tear.

[Nancy Grace]

Pepper.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Okay, I blame him for his conviction. But tonight, is this true? He's actually suing court clerk Becky Hill? He's actually suing her. Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. Straight out to Gigi McKelvey joining us, investigative reporter, journalist, host of Pretty Lies and Alibis. Gigi, wait, hold on. Becky Hill, according to the South Carolina Supreme Court, handed him a reversal on a silver platter on top of the Christmas tree. Why is he suing her?

[Gigi McKelvey (Investigative Journalist)]

You know, when I heard he was getting a new trial, my first thought is he is going to sue Becky Hill. Now, whether or not there's any money to be had? That remains to be seen. But yesterday at the press conference, his defense attorney said part of the monetary, part of the money they're seeking is to pay for his defense that he paid for first. First trial. Because her actions led to that being

[Legal Analyst / Narrator]

overturned and getting a new trial.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

I think you're awesome. You're great. You're on the ground right there. You know it like the back of your hand. But the question was, why is he suing her?

[Gigi McKelvey (Investigative Journalist)]

He's suing her because he wants to be reimbursed for his defense attorney fees for that first trial. They mentioned they're seeking other monies, but they did not specify what for. But we do know the 600,000 specifically was mentioned for his defense fees he paid for trial number one.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Mark Pepper joining us, veteran criminal defense attorney, founded the Pepper Law Firm in South Carolina. Okay, wait a minute. Let me understand the legal theory. She, according to the jurors, tainted their verdict. I think they found him guilty because he is guilty and the evidence is overwhelming. But two, I think two jurors stated that she made inappropriate comments and it colored their verdict. Fine. South Carolina Supreme Court had to reverse. So he should be giving her a bonus.

[Nancy Grace]

He should be sending her a fruit basket.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Why is he suing her? What is a legal theory that Harputlien is pulling straight out of his bony rear end?

[Mark Pepper (Defense Attorney)]

Yeah, he should be doing exactly what he's doing, which is getting his $600,000 back that he used in expert fees.

[Nancy Grace]

The legal theory.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Why can't anybody give me a legitimate legal theory? In our country that's called a frivolous lawsuit. You can be yoasted.

[Nancy Grace]

Yost.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

That's the name of a case where there was a frivolous lawsuit and has come to be a moniker for frivolous lawsuits being filed. You're going to get yoasted. So can you give me a legal theory?

[Nancy Grace]

Take two, Nancy.

[Mark Pepper (Defense Attorney)]

The legal theory is very simple. In our country, under section 1983 of our United States Constitution, we are granted the right to be free from outside influences at a trial on our. On our trial before our peers. When you have an independent actor who, by the way, is a state actor in this case, she's the elected clerk of court. When you have her purposely directly influencing the jury under the color of law, given her position as third court, that opens her up to a claim of. Of 1983, section 1983 of our United States Constitution, that allows for her to be held liable in a civil court of law and to pay Damages in addition to damages, that being $600,000 plus whatever these attorneys can elicit during the trial that case, they would also be entitled under 1988 US Constitution Section to attorney fees and costs for bringing this claim. So I would argue that this is the opposite of frivolous. This is a very legitimate claim. Claim against a bad actor who was acting under the color of state law under 1983 U.S. constitution.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

There is Alex Murdoch crying on body cam. But keep watching because suddenly he flips it off and starts checking his cell phone. Please stay on that because I want to see him checking his cell phone. I just wish I could see the text he was actually checking that night. Okay, hold on. While we're watching Alex Murdoch. Oh, there you go. Force himself to cry in front of the police. Let me understand this, okay? Mark Pepper, please do not throw a lot of Latin phrases. Nobody likes that. Yes, lawyers are forced to learn what they mean, but we don't speak Latin. Okay, what would be the damages? So he gets tried for murder. He gets convicted. She makes offhand comments to the jurors that two of them say color their verdict. He gets a reversal because of her. And he's suing for how much money? I think no jury is going to do this. They're going to laugh him out of court. She threw him a bone. A life preserver.

[Mark Pepper (Defense Attorney)]

Yeah. I would argue quite the opposite. But for her jury tampering, in his mind, he would have been acquitted.

[Caller / Witness]

And.

[Mark Pepper (Defense Attorney)]

And that's his position, is that they tried a valid case. They had at least one or two jurors that clearly said she influenced their. Their verdict. Now, keep in mind, they voted guilty. So if they're going to take the stand and say Becky Hill influenced my verdict, well, then they must have been leaning to not guilty. So his position is, you've now damaged me. I was going to get either a not guilty verdict or at the very worst, a hung trial, a mistrial, because it wouldn't be unanimous. And so you now owe me the $600,000 in. In cost that I had to spend to try this first case because I'm no closer to an acquittal or proving my innocence than I was way back in 2023.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

I got it, I got it, I got it. So I got it. You're stating that in a nutshell, Alex Murdock thinks he would have been acquitted.

[Caller / Witness]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

But for Becky Hill statements to the jury, he thinks exactly. He was convicted because. Okay, hold on just a moment. Dr. Kendall crowns. Joining us, renowned chief medical examiner Tarrant county, that's Fort Worth. Never a lack of business in the morgue has conducted literally thousands of autopsies. He is the esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at tcu and he is a star of a hit podcast, Mayhem in the morgue. Dr. Kendall crowns, you just heard defense attorney Mark Pepper insist that the reason Alex Murdoch was convicted is because of the few offhand comments that the court clerk

[Legal Analyst / Narrator]

made.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Becky Hill, could you refresh Mark Pepper's recollection? As we say in court, when a witness screws up on the stand, you have to go. Your honor, may I refresh the witnesses recollection? Meanwhile, you're boiling and seething inside because you have gone over the material with the witness and yet they still say something completely different than what they told you 15 minutes before. So you have to refresh their recollection with maybe a document or in this case, a.

[Nancy Grace]

A medical examiner's report.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Becky Hill had nothing to do with what happened to Paul and Maggie. Could you explain, Dr. Kendall Crowns, why. Why the AG is now throwing the

[Nancy Grace]

death penalty on the table?

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

What did the autopsy tell you about the death, the murders of Maggie and Paul?

[Dr. Kendall Crowns (Medical Examiner)]

Certainly. So let's start with Maggie's autopsy. She has five gunshot wounds to her body. Two are intermediate range, meaning they have gunshot or gunpowder tattooing or stippling, meaning the gunshot wound is between 2 to 6 inches to about 2 to 3ft away from her body. One of the gunshot wounds is actually into the back of her skull that goes through her brain. It's almost like an execution type wound. It appears that she gets shot, shot in the abdomen, shot in the thigh. At close range, she's probably fallen to her knees. And then the individual then shoots her in the back of the head, blowing out her brain, killing her at that point. She also has a gunshot wound to her left wrist. So she could have been holding her arm up trying to block the incoming bullets for all we know. So she was essentially shot to her knees and then executed. The son, on the other hand, he's shot twice with a shotgun. So whoever did the killing switched up, switched up weapons and then killed him with a shotgun. One going through the chest, blowing out his armpit, and the other one entering into the neck and then blowing out the top of his head, blowing out his brain as well. So you have two people fatally shot. One even appears to be basically executed at the scene. So you know, when you're beginning to talk death penalty, you've got to weigh in a number of factors which I know you fully Understand? But it does look like at least Maggie was executed at some point.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

You know, while you were talking, Dr. Kendall, crowns, I was thinking about. I mean, this is Buster Murdoch. This is Alex Murdaugh's son, Maggie. Son. I was thinking about my own son. And I try not to place my daughter or son, the positions of the victims. But when you're describing bullets ripping through his body, and I know from studying the crime scene that his brain matter was up on the top of a door. It blew out of his head with such ferocity. I know that part of his skull was found in a different location. And I think of my son's beautiful face and head, I can hardly think straight. And for Mark Pepper or Hartputland or Alex Murdoch or anybody to say that somehow Becky Hill caused the guilty verdict, they're out of their minds. Dr. Kendall, crown hold. Joining me right now is a very special guest in addition to Bethany Marshall. Soon to join us, Chris McDonough, Director, Cold Case Foundation. Homicide. Detective Dave Mack, a friend of Becky Hill's right now. Oh, and of course, Gigi McKelvey. Blanca Turabiate Simpson is joining us. This is Murdoch's former housekeeper. She's the author of an incredible book, within the House of Murdog. I mean, I stayed up at night and read that, even though I knew I'd get up at 5 o' clock the next morning. I stayed up till I finished it. Within the house of murdog.com Blanca. Mr. Abbiate Simpson, thank you for being with us tonight. What was your reaction when, when you heard Murdoch's case had been reversed?

[Blanca Turabiate Simpson (Housekeeper)]

First of all, thank you for having me. I, I was shocked, but it wasn't. The feelings were more, you know, what about Maggie and Paul? You know, here we go again. Are they going to be lost in all the frenzy? You know, that, that was my first feeling. Maggie and Paul and I went to. I did go to the cemetery right after I heard the news. I just felt, I don't know. I don't know what it was. I don't know whether it was her. You know, I could kind of hear her, you know, saying, girl, you need to come and see me. But I just felt the urge that I needed to go by. And even though they can't speak, just to say, here we go again, that was. And I'm still upset over it. But I respect the court's decision. There's nothing I can do about.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

We have to respect the court's decision. I agree with you on that, Ms. Turabiate. Simpson, I agree with you.

[Nancy Grace]

If we don't respect the court's decision,

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

we might as well be in a country that has a rule of man, not a rule of law.

[Blanca Turabiate Simpson (Housekeeper)]

Exactly.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Whether we disagree or we agree with a court's decision, you swallow it like it's a lump of coal and keep going if you disagree with it, because

[Nancy Grace]

that is the rule of law.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

They have ruled, and we will execute their wishes. Because we are officers of the court and we respect the court doesn't mean we have to agree with the court. But what do you. What do you make of it, Ms. Simpson? That it's all because of some comments, some offhand comments. And look, I'm not saying Becky Hill didn't make the comments, and they were wrong and they were inappropriate, and the South Carolina Supreme Court had no choice but to reverse. I get it, but I don't think that what she said is why he was convicted.

[Nancy Grace]

Did you just hear Dr. Kendall Crowns describing a tiny bit of the injuries

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

to Maggie and Paul?

[Blanca Turabiate Simpson (Housekeeper)]

I agree with what you're saying. I believe he was convicted based on the evidence that was presented to the court. I do agree with that. But unfortunately, the limelight and the stardom, you know, got involved in all this, and it went to Ms. Becky Hill's head. And here we are again, you know, just when we thought everybody was going back, you know, to some kind of normalcy, here we go again with this. And it's opening up, you know, the wound that was starting to close, and it's hard. I believe the dogs told on him, you know, that he was not alone. When he made that call, he was not alone. I call him the cleaners. I will not disclose who. I believe I know who they. Who I think they are. You know, I. More than positive, I. I know who they are. When Alex, Maggie and Paul were at the kennels, you hear the kennel video. You don't hear the other dogs. The dogs are calm. As soon as you hear the beginning of the phone call, the dogs are barking and moving around.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

From our friends at Daily Mail, Ms. Simpson explained to me Alex Murdaugh's behavior before and after the murders.

[Blanca Turabiate Simpson (Housekeeper)]

They were normal. There was nothing that would say that they weren't a loving family. They were very, very caring for each other. They. They did everything together. They traveled together. If he was going to be gone on the weekend, you know, him and Maggie would. Would go together. The boys would go with him, too. There was nothing to indicate that there was anything wrong with the fam. With. With anybody in the family, of course there was stress, you know, here and there, like, you know, most families. But, you know, with, with the pending, you know, litigation that was coming up. But there was not any issue with them as far as there wasn't anything indicating that there was anything, you know, wrong with the relationship or anything of that sort. After the, after the murders, he was very, he was like inconsolable. He was, you know, he would cry, he would, you know, kind of like sit and kind of like look off at a distance. But there was a lot of people around him during that time, you know, trying to console him. And then there was moments where, you know, he was fine and then there was moments where he would just start crying.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

So let me understand this. Do you in some way think Murdoch is innocent?

[Blanca Turabiate Simpson (Housekeeper)]

No, ma', am, I don't.

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[SimpliSafe Advertiser / Weight Loss Advertiser]

body weight when you combine it with diet and exercise.

[Nancy Grace]

If prescribed your medication delivered right to your door, you get a personalized treatment

[SimpliSafe Advertiser / Weight Loss Advertiser]

plan and unlimited dosage changes as needed.

[Nancy Grace]

Ready to reach your goals? Visit forhers.comnancy to get personalized affordable care that gets you that's F o R H E-R-S.com Nancy Fourhers.com Nancy Weight loss by hers is not available in all 50 states.

[SimpliSafe Advertiser / Weight Loss Advertiser]

WeGovy is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk.

[Nancy Grace]

As to get started and learn more

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including important safety information, WeGovy clinical study information and restrictions.

[Nancy Grace]

Visit forhers.com this July 4th, come celebrate

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[Karen & Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

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[Karen & Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

fivesides Google is a trademark of Google LLC. Sequences shortened and simulated.

[Tony Ayo]

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[Nancy Grace]

There's a break in every 26 seconds

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in the US most security systems alert

[Nancy Grace]

you after a break in has already started. That's too late.

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[Nancy Grace]

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the benefits of SimpliSafe. I want you to experience the same

[Nancy Grace]

peace of mind we do.

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That's why I've partnered with SimpliSafe to

[Nancy Grace]

offer an exclusive discount to our listeners. Right now you get 50% off your

[SimpliSafe Advertiser / Weight Loss Advertiser]

new system by visiting simplisafe.com Nancy I believe in it so much I've given it to two of the LOL's little

[Nancy Grace]

old ladies back in my home church in Macon, Georgia.

[SimpliSafe Advertiser / Weight Loss Advertiser]

That's half [e-mail] Nancy There really is no safe like SimpliSafe.

[Nancy Grace]

Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

[Legal Analyst / Narrator]

Rebecca Becky Hill, the Colleton county court clerk, offered up reasoning as to why she should not be sued by Alex Murdaugh. She says she should benefit from, quote, quasi judicial immunity. For instance, a judge cannot be sued over a verdict. The case can be reversed, but the judge cannot be civilly sued for money. It's all part of sovereign immunity. The king can do no wrong. So Hill is claiming a quasi judicial status and that she cannot be sued civilly by Alex Murdaugh. She also claims she shouldn't be on the hook for damages to reimburse him for legal costs because he would have had to pay that same money for his defense, regardless of her alleged meddling. Okay, that kind of makes sense. He would have to pay defense lawyers anyway for his appeal. So why does she have to help him out with those payments?

[Nancy Grace]

Interesting theory.

[SimpliSafe Advertiser / Weight Loss Advertiser]

What actually happened?

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Joining me now, renowned psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction, Dr. Bethany Marshall. She's the author of Deal Breaker. You can see her now on Peacock and Bravo, and you can find her at Dr.bethany marshall.com. Dr. Bethany I dislike him even more now after hearing Ms. Simpson speak because after the murders, he sat around and let everyone console him, knowing he committed the double murders. Shooting Maggie in the back of the skull, execution style stippling. You've been with us enough to know what that means. That means that the gun was so close to her head, it burned her skin. And he is getting consoled. And people are making food for him and bringing him flowers and patting him on the back and handing him Kleenex. Really is disgusting.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall (Psychoanalyst)]

Well, Nancy, not only is it disgusting, it's his moment of glory. Right? So, you know, Alex Murdoch was excellent. He was practiced at extracting resources from other people, whether it's money from clients, trust funds, whether it was sympathy from the people around him. He was good at acting. And Nancy, let me remind the viewers that his offending pattern was he would spend money that was not his to spend. Maybe he stole it from a client trust account. Or he would, like with Gloria Satterley, he would say to her sons, hey, why don't we just file a wrongful death lawsuit against me and you can have the money? Then, of course, he keeps the money. So what he perennially has to do is steal from the next victim in order to repay the victim from the time before. So that is exactly what he's doing with this court case. It's the same offending pattern. Now he has a chance to say, hey, I don't really owe that $600,000 to my attorneys. Becky Hill, you pay it. You're the one who got me this guilty verdict. So you pay it now I have even more resources to expend. Although you know what, Nancy? You know who he's stealing from now? He's stealing from the taxpayers. He's stealing from us. Because this is going to be a new, long, expensive court case. So the offending pattern is going on and on and on. It's like, will it never end? And I bet whatever depression he was experiencing behind bars has evaporated because he's gotten away with it once again.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Dr. Bethany, what I don't understand is how you can keep a straight face with everyone rubbing your shoulders and handing you Kleenex and making you chicken soup after you just murdered your son and your wife and left them to bleed into the dirt. And the dog kennel, they were all

[Dr. Bethany Marshall (Psychoanalyst)]

marks, just like all of his clients who he stole from out of their trust funds, and then the people from the church and his housekeeper and everybody cooking for him. He loves to manipulate out of other people. He loves to get things that are not his to get that do not belong to him. Even if it's just sympathy, he loves to get it, Nancy. He doesn't have a conscience. He's one of these people where we can truly and accurately use the word cold blooded. Because if you heard the housekeeper just now, Bianca, she's talking about how he was going on trips with the kids and they're going hunting together and all of that. He's acting like a dad, Nancy, whereas people have no problem just seeing their brains splattered out somewhere. That's how little he actually thinks of them. They're just like. Like a woman putting on jewelry that's just adornment. It's just jewelry. It's just there to make her look better in the moment. That's what his family was like. They actually, in a way, were like the beard. They were the people who he assembled around him to make him look normal while he was stealing from other people. So he, in a way, recruited them as foot soldiers in his crime enterprises.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Joining me now, director, Cold Case foundation, former homicide detective who has worked over 300 homicides, and he is the star of the interview room on YouTube, our friend, our colleague, Chris McDonough. We disagree wildly on the Guthrie case, but I believe we agree on this case. Chris McDonough, have you ever seen a defendant win in court? Whether it's a not guilty verdict, whether it's a motion, whether it's getting rid of a juror they don't like, and you look at them, you know they did it and they're getting a victory Like Murdoch has gotten.

[Nancy Grace]

This is a huge victory to get

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

a reversal on a double murder that hardly ever happens, but it has happened. And then the prosecutors, the sheriffs, sled, South Carolina law enforcement, they have to watch him gloat. It's sickening. But I'll tell you what's even more disturbing is imagining him at the funeral home or with everyone fawning all over him and he knows he did it.

[Chris McDonough (Cold Case Foundation Director)]

Yeah, I mean, you know, we have to respect our system. Right. But at the same time, to your point exactly, Nancy, you know, this is a gentleman. You know, as the good Dr. Bethany has just pointed out, this guy's past feeling, I mean, he has no capacity to understand what it's like to have the sense of empathy. The fact that he pulls his wife to the property that evening and then calls his son while going to the property. So he's got two things happening. He's calling Buster, you know, just checking in on the family, saying he's going to go see mom and Paul while intentionally knowing he's going to blow their heads off and. Or execute them. As you know, Dr. Earlier had pointed out, this guy set this entire thing up. God set a witness at that kennel that evening. And that was the dog. And, and then the second piece of that obviously was the video where you can hear his voice. You know, this guy, if he ever gets another opportunity, I agree. I think he's going to take the stand. I think it would be a foolish thing to do, obviously. But I believe he may take the stand again. And, you know, we're up for another crazy time.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Alex Murdaugh is heading to a retrial very quickly. To Mark Pepper, a veteran trial lawyer out of Charleston, South Carolina. It's very rare that a murder case, much less a double murder case, gets reversed, but it has happened. Is there any way on God's green earth, Mark, that the state is going to enter into a guilty plea?

[Mark Pepper (Defense Attorney)]

0.0% chance. And even if one were to be offered, Nancy, there's a 0% chance that Alec would even entertain it. This is going to trial, but the Attorney General's office has already indicated that they intend to re indict should they choose to and get this case to trial perhaps by the end of the year. Dick Harpootle and Jim Griffin have all come out and said we look forward to our day in court. The only question is where the trial may occur and when. But there's a zero percent chance that anybody will be talking plea offer.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Okay, to Dave Mack, joining us, crime stories Investigative reporter. That means if there's not a plea, there's going to be a trial. There's only one way Murdoch could plea without the state agreeing to it, and that would be a blind plea, which means you don't have an agreement as to the sentence. You just put it up to the judge. And for all we know, the judge could give the death penalty on a blind plea.

[Nancy Grace]

And you can't take it back once

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

you do a blind plea. A blind plea is where the prosecutor and the defense do not agree on the sentence and the defense just puts it to the judge. They plead guilty and they stand there and wait to find out what the judge is going to say in sentencing. That's not going to happen. So Mark Pepper is right. There's not going to be a plea in this case.

[Mark Pepper (Defense Attorney)]

Listen, Never will plead guilty off the table. Want a trial, they can dismiss it. Yeah, they can dismiss these charges, you

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

know, but he'll never enter into a

[Mark Pepper (Defense Attorney)]

plea which required some admission that he

[Legal Commentator / Analyst]

did something he didn't do.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

From our friends at Fox, straight out to Dave Mack, crime Stories investigative reporter. Tell me about the death penalty. What's happening, Nancy?

[Legal Commentator / Analyst]

It was interesting that Harpootlian said, hey, what has changed in the last few years that now you put the death penalty on the table? Well, South Carolina Attorney General Alan Wilson, confirming that his office is considering seeking the death penalty against Murdoch should he be found guilty a second time. The idea behind this is that when they did the first trial, Nancy, they were having problems in South Carolina with actually carrying out the death penalty, and there was a moratorium. They were dealing with the drugs and everything that goes into the actual death penalty sentence. That's why it wasn't put on the table the first time. Now that they're coming back to it, it's a much different situation. If you remember, during the first trial, there was a lot of debate over how much of the financial accusations of wrongdoing would come into the trial. Well, that's all a foregone conclusion. Now we know what he pleaded there. So this is just straight up one thing and one thing only. It's the murders of Maggie and Paul, nothing else. And now South Carolina says we're putting the death penalty on the table.

[Caller / Witness]

Possibly 911 was an emergency on Salcohatchee Road. Okay, what's the address on Saka at your own? I'm by the church. What church? What church are you talking about? I don't know the name of it. With the red roof. Okay, what end of Sarcatcherol Because I don't know where you're talking about. At the Hampton county side. Okay, what's going on? I stop. I got a flat tire. Somebody stopped to help me, and when I turned my back, they tried to shoot me. Oh, okay. Were you shot? Yes, but, I mean, I'm okay. You shot? Where? Where were you shot at? Huh? Did they actually shoot you? They tried to shoot you? They shot me, but. Okay, Wait, you need emf? Well, I mean, yes. I can't drive, okay. And I'm bleeding a lot. With what part of your body? I'm not sure. Somewhere on my head.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Gigi McKelvey joining us, investigative journalist, host of Pretty Lies and Alibis. Gigi, you remember that right? After gunning down his wife and son, he then set up an elaborate plot to have himself shot on a rural road to make it look like the real killer was after him. Then he shows up in court after

[Nancy Grace]

his lawyer said he had brain damage, with a band aid right here. Really?

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Do you remember that?

[Gigi McKelvey (Investigative Journalist)]

I remember it well. I remember getting that alert on my phone. And at first we all thought whoever got Maggie and Paul definitely tried to get him. But very quickly, the story seemed to fall apart. And,

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Gigi, you actually thought that somebody else killed Paul and Maggie and they were after Alex Murdock? You really thought that?

[Mazda CX5 Advertiser]

For a minute.

[Gigi McKelvey (Investigative Journalist)]

Well, at the time, I thought, why would anybody just shoot him on the side of the road? I didn't think. It didn't even compute that he had set this up. I mean, it's almost unbelievable to think that. So for a hot minute, yeah, I

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

thought, oh, my goodness, look at your screen. Did you see that? Can I see his head again? There's the injury. I can't even see it.

[Gigi McKelvey (Investigative Journalist)]

Yeah, my kids got worse when they were little. Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Okay. There was this one time my son scraped his knee, and it was worse than that. So he actually bamboozled you? Because when I heard he was shot in the head, but when I heard the 91 1, he's perfectly lucid. The first thing I thought was, now, how did Murdoch arrange to be shot on a rural road to make it look like the real killers wandering around out there? That was my first thought. And guess what? Yeah, that is exactly what happened.

[Gigi McKelvey (Investigative Journalist)]

Right. And after I heard that 911 call, I said, oh, no, no, no. This was set up. But just for a second, you hear, you know, our local news comes across and says, you know, Alec Murdoch, shot on the side of the road, I thought, oh, man, they got him. But after hearing that 911 call. I said oh no, this was an inside job. He knew exactly who did it and he set it up.

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[Nancy Grace]

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[Nancy Grace]

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[Nancy Grace]

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[Nancy Grace]

Ready to reach your goals? Visit forhers.comnancy to get personalized affordable care that gets you that's F O R h e r s.com Nancy Forhers.com Nancy Weight loss by hers is not available in all 50 states. Wegovy is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk as to get started and learn more, including important safety information, WeGovy clinical study information and restrictions, visit forhers.com this

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[Karen & Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

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[Mazda CX5 Advertiser]

See it in five films at mazdausa.com

[Karen & Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

fivesides Google is a trademark of Google LLC. Sequences shortened and simulated.

[Tony Ayo]

This is Tony Ayo from the Real Report with Tony Ayo and Uncle Murder. You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rent's going up, streaming services are going up. Even your favorite barista Frito Spot suddenly thinks salsa should cost extra. But with Boost Mobile, you and your phone bill don't have to play the Will this go up Soon? Game because Boost Mobile has an unlimited talk, text and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for life, meaning you're set to never worry about your bill increasing again for as long as you're on the plan While the world keeps finding new ways to nickel and dime you, Boost Mobile gives you unlimited wireless at one set price for life. Imagine something in your budget actually staying the same. You'll pay the same for unlimited wireless when you're posting mirror selfies in your 20s. And when you're posting mirror selfies in retirement. Some things never change. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up, only at boost mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.

[Nancy Grace]

There's a break in every 26 seconds.

[SimpliSafe Advertiser / Weight Loss Advertiser]

In the US most security systems alert

[Nancy Grace]

you after a break in has already started. That's too late.

[SimpliSafe Advertiser / Weight Loss Advertiser]

SimpliSafe is changing that. Using advanced AI alerts, SimpliSafe's US based live agents identify threats on your property and help deter them. And here's what I love most about it. No long term contracts. And the setup is so easy.

[Nancy Grace]

The SimpliSafe system was delivered to our door and in just 30 minutes our home is more secure. With monitoring and deterrence plans. Starting around a dollar a day, everyone

[SimpliSafe Advertiser / Weight Loss Advertiser]

can enjoy the benefits of SimpliSafe. I want you to experience the same

[Nancy Grace]

peace of mind we do.

[SimpliSafe Advertiser / Weight Loss Advertiser]

That's why I've partnered with SimpliSafe to

[Nancy Grace]

offer an exclusive discount to our listeners. Right now you get 50% off your

[SimpliSafe Advertiser / Weight Loss Advertiser]

new system by visiting simplisafe.com Nancy I believe in it so much I've given it to two of the LOL's little

[Nancy Grace]

old ladies back in my home church in Macon, Georgia.

[SimpliSafe Advertiser / Weight Loss Advertiser]

That's half [e-mail] Nancy There really is no safe like SimpliSafe.

[Nancy Grace]

Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

[Legal Analyst / Narrator]

Alex Murdoch, a once notable member of the South Carolina Bar, partner in a law firm, multiple homes, beautiful family, is now seeking over a half a million dollars in damages against the court clerk Becky Hill, claiming she tried to sway the jury to find him guilty of killing his wife Maggie and son Paul. Well, he did murder them. Okay, that's a given. The evidence was overwhelming and the jury agreed. His lawsuit comes just after South Carolina Supreme Court overturned his conviction, finding that Becky Hill had, quote, placed her fingers on the scales of justice.

[Nancy Grace]

But does he have a right to

[Legal Analyst / Narrator]

sue her civilly and get over half a million dollars? That will be the question. I'm more concerned about a true verdict.

[Nancy Grace]

This case is going to have to

[Legal Analyst / Narrator]

be retried and here are some of

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

the facts to Mark Pepper joining us, veteran trial lawyer in this jurisdiction. My whole point, why do I care about him having himself shot on the side of the road just enough to make it look bad. Sodd. Some other dude did it. He's gonna try the same thing.

[Nancy Grace]

From what I hear.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

And they may rethink this. They should. They're gonna try to blame some other dude for doing it. Somebody else shot Paul and Maggie. Same thing as getting shot on the side of the road. Some other dude did it turns out to be his wonky cousin. That's some other dude that he paid to do it. So are they really going to go down that road, Pepper?

[Mark Pepper (Defense Attorney)]

Well, I don't think they have a choice at this point. You know, you're trying to create reasonable doubt. One way to do it is to point to third party guilt. You got to stay within the laws and the confines of our constitution on rules of evidence. But yeah, some other dude did it is always a valid defense. We know cousin Eddie's out there. We've got other, you know, drug smuggling operations with this opioid addiction out there. I think we're going to see a different type of defense put on here in this next retrial. Some other dude did it will play at some point in this trial. They've got everything they need to do it. They've got the cousin Eddie, they've got all the characters. You've got other, you know, victims out there. You've got these bad actors down in the Walterboro, all the way down to Hampton County, Beaufort County. There's plenty of other people who potentially had opportunity. Now, motive, that's gonna be tough to convince. Clearly Alec would be the one that had the most motive. But certainly that is going to be a defense in this retrial. Some other dude did it.

[Nancy Grace]

What dude?

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Let me see his face while he spins out this big lie.

[Mazda CX5 Advertiser]

Hold on.

[Nancy Grace]

What dude?

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

You're like, you know what? This is a compliment. Did you ever read to your children Rumpelstiltskin? Do you remember that? The little imp that could take straw and spin it into gold. That's what Harpootlen does. That's what you're doing right now.

[Nancy Grace]

What other dude?

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

What?

[Nancy Grace]

Some other dude.

[Mark Pepper (Defense Attorney)]

Well, the beauty of it doesn't matter. That's the beauty of the trial system. Nancy,

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

give me a Kleenex.

[Mark Pepper (Defense Attorney)]

Well, look, that's what good criminal defense lawyers do.

[Blanca Turabiate Simpson (Housekeeper)]

Matter.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

It doesn't matter who you blame. Just anybody will do.

[Mark Pepper (Defense Attorney)]

Well, you just. You're trying to prevent 12 reasonably minded people from convicting your client beyond reasonable doubt. You don't have to come up with names, you don't have to come up with places and who they are and how they did it. You've just got to create the reasonable doubt by pointing to someone other than the guy sitting in the defense chair next to you. I mean, that's how those things play out. And that's what we criminal defense lawyers do and do quite well here in South Carolina.

[Legal Analyst / Narrator]

I bet you do.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

You know, I've got a question. Based on what you just said, I can see Hartputlian spinning it out and blaming somebody, somebody that would want to kill Maggie and Paul. But then suddenly it got complicated.

[Nancy Grace]

Dave Mac.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive Dave Mack. Because in his ill fated effort to pretend the real killer was out there and tried to kill him on the side of the road, what he has done now is forever poison his well and telling a jury some other dude did it because he's already tried that once.

[Nancy Grace]

And I can just hear the prosecution

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

shooting a torpedo into the some other dude did it defense. And that is where the defense is headed. As Pepper pointed out, they may not have any choice. They're working with what they've got. But he's already gone to that well,

[Nancy Grace]

he's already been there. How can he, with a straight face

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

claim again, some other dude did it. Dave Mack, again, back to the death penalty. A lot is riding on this. The state now announcing they are considering the death penalty on Alex Murdaugh and Dave Mack. You and I have analyzed this many, many times the aggravating circumstances required for the death penalty.

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Dave.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Such as mass murder. More than one body qualifies as mass murder under the law. Here we've got two lying in wait. He lured Maggie and Paul to Moselle, the hunting lodge, and he lay in wait for the right moment to murder them. Also pecuniary or money interest. His whole point in killing them was he did not want his financial crimes to the tune of $12 million to

[Nancy Grace]

be exposed as they would in a divorce proceeding or a civil lawsuit against

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

him and his son Paul. So long story short, aggravating circumstances. Dave Mack, you and I covered it the first time. It's teeming with death penalty aggravation.

[Legal Commentator / Analyst]

Nancy, you're dead on right. Everything that is needed to try this as a death penalty case is right there. When you look at the financial motive, the idea that everything in his world was falling apart financially, I mean, it was all there. On top of that, he knew there was more damage financially and otherwise coming to from A possible trial about Paul's boat crash. So all of these negatives are stepping up. And you know, the one thing that's not being mentioned, Nancy, is that Maggie was not staying at Moselle. She was at the beach house. She was not even. She did not want to be around her husband anymore, and he knew it. He had to lure her back from the beach house to come to Moselle that night. And it plays out. The digital evidence is there that what took place that night, how it took place and all the motivation to match up for what's needed in a death penalty case. It's right there.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Gigi McKelvey joining us out of this jurisdiction, South Carolina investigative journalist and star of Pretty Lies and Alibis. Gigi, what are the betting odds that the state's going to seek the death penalty?

[Gigi McKelvey (Investigative Journalist)]

I think it's a very good chance, just like what was just mentioned is, it does check all the aggravating factors. And I think that that Allen Wilson, you know, a lot of people have said, is this a political move because it's reelection year, But I do think that they will go for the death penalty just to just to really sock it to him for having to do this twice. And also because of what was done to Maggie and Paul and how egregious it was.

[Nancy Grace]

We are told Vegas odds are very slim.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

But pointing to the state will seek

[Nancy Grace]

the death penalty against Alex Murdoch, if

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

you believe a gambling outfit. That said, the first time around, we were told that because there had been a moratorium of sorts on the death penalty in South Carolina, it hadn't been sought for 13 years, that there was no point in seeking it because it couldn't be obtained. Well, that has changed.

[Nancy Grace]

Let's see if the state follows through

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

on the double murders of Maggie and Paul. And one more time to Dr. Kendall. Dr. Crowns, could you re enlighten us refresh our recollection on what happened to Paul and Maggie?

[Dr. Kendall Crowns (Medical Examiner)]

So, again, Maggie had five gunshot wounds about her body, two of which, one in the abdomen, one in the thigh had gunpowder stippling or gunpowder tattooing, which means they occurred anywhere from 2 to 6 inches to 2 to 3ft. So the gun was in intermediate range when it was shot at them. One of the wounds was to the back of her head that entered into her skull and went into her brain and would have killed her. So it does appear that she was shot down, shot to her knees, and then executed with the gunshot wound being put into the back of her head. She does also have a wound to her left wrist, which could be her trying to block being shot at the time it was all occurring. The son has two shotgun injuries, one to the chest that comes into his chest and blows out of the armpit and then one that comes into the neck and then blows out the top of his head, taking out a large portion of his brain. So they were both shot multiple times and with different weapons, one with a high powered rifle, the other with a shotgun.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

The state will have to give a clear and convincing reason under the law as to why it is seeking the death penalty second time around when it didn't the first time around to ensure to a court satisfaction that they are not seeking the death penalty out of punishment. For Alex Murdaugh appealing and getting a new trial, I believe they can carry that burden.

[Legal Analyst / Narrator]

Becky Hill admitted she used her position to push the sales of her books about the trial, but did she truly

[Nancy Grace]

affect the jury's verdict?

[Legal Analyst / Narrator]

I believe firmly the South Carolina Supreme Court did what it had to do based on the comments alone, whether she intended them to sway the jury or not, whether they were just offhand comments or even jokes the comments were made. I firmly believe the evidence was overwhelming and the jury would have found him guilty anyway. We wait as justice unfolds.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Nancy Grace Crime Stories Signing off Goodbye.

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[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

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[Gigi McKelvey (Investigative Journalist)]

Mom, can I have Lingokids?

[Nancy Grace]

Dad, Lingokids, please.

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No idea.

[Gigi McKelvey (Investigative Journalist)]

Last week it was dinosaurs, this week it's Lingokids.

[Host/Interviewer (Nancy Grace's show)]

Why Lingokids?

[Nancy Grace]

Because it's the best thing ever. We can play games with astronauts, wild animals and superheroes.

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[Legal Commentator / Analyst]

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So no dining, dinosaurs and dinosaurs.

[Nancy Grace]

Everything kids love. Download it for free.

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[Nancy Grace]

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