BLOODY VALENTINE TRIAL LOOMS: HUBBY MURDERS WIFE, AFTER FAILED PARIS-THEME DATE

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Bloody Valentine Trial Looms: Hubby Murders Wife, After Failed Paris-Theme Date"

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
Date: October 19, 2025
Host: Nancy Grace
Guests: Dr. Bethany Marshall (psychoanalyst), Greg Morse (trial lawyer), Shannon Henry (SASS Go), Barry Hutchinson (private investigator), Dr. Kendall Crowns (chief medical examiner), Christina Ouayo (news anchor)

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Episode Overview

This gripping episode centers around a harrowing Valentine's Day murder in Jeffersonville, Indiana: Taylor Meyer is accused of bludgeoning and repeatedly stabbing his wife, Debra, after a failed Paris-themed date night. Nancy Grace brings in legal, psychological, and investigative experts to unravel the pattern of alleged domestic abuse, the psychology of the suspect, and how the crime unfolded, while openly challenging the legal arguments often used in such tragedies.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Crime: Facts & Motive

• Incident Summary: Taylor Meyer allegedly killed his wife Debra on Valentine's Day after she failed to react as he wanted to his "Paris-themed" date night (wine from Kroger, children's drawings of the Eiffel Tower, music, dinner from their favorite Japanese steakhouse).
• Alleged Motive: According to Taylor, Debra “just didn’t give a sh*t about his Paris theme night date” ([01:05]).
• Nature of the Attack: Bludgeoned with a wine bottle, then stabbed 40 times. Children were asleep upstairs ([00:58], [07:49], [34:54]).

2. Escalation and Patterns of Domestic Abuse

• Expert View (Dr. Bethany Marshall): The murder was not a spontaneous act but the culmination of years of control, jealousy, and paranoia, exacerbated by Debra’s increasing independence ([03:00]).
  • Quote: “He wanted power and control over her… him having an affair… making her feel bad… as she wanted independence, he destabilized. When you kill somebody, that’s the ultimate power.” — Dr. Bethany Marshall ([03:00])
• Shannon Henry (SASS Go): Emphasizes this was about ownership, not rage or a crime of passion. Taylor controlled details from the dress Debra wore to forcing her to dance, enjoying her suffering ([13:23], [14:30]).
  • Quote: “This was a sadistic killing… he enjoyed watching her suffer… every ‘gift’ was a threat and she knew it.” — Shannon Henry ([13:23])

3. Legal Framing: Premeditation vs. “Snap” Defense

• Nancy Grace: Dissects the argument of “snapping” being a defense. Explains that under the law, premeditation can form in seconds—intent is established by the steps Meyer took to retrieve the wine bottle and knife ([07:49], [08:58]).
  • Quote: “There is no snap defense under the law… the time required under the law… can be in an instant, the twinkling of the moment.” — Nancy Grace ([07:49])
• Greg Morse (Defense Attorney): Attempts to argue that rage or possible mental illness, not premeditation, may have driven the act. His position is repeatedly challenged and ultimately dismissed by Nancy and other experts ([09:58], [28:50], [43:16]).
  • Quote: “Intent can come up in a moment… most people don’t understand that moment in time and wish they could take it back…” — Greg Morse ([08:58])

4. Missed Warning Signs & Abuse Dynamics

• Jealousy and Projection: Taylor accused Debra of infidelity, closely monitored her phone and activities while he himself was accused of cheating and exchanging nude photos ([21:25], [24:12], [25:51]).
• Debra’s Email: Reveals her mounting exhaustion, feelings of being a single mother, and suspicion of Taylor’s infidelity ([24:12], [25:51]).
  • Quote: “Raising three kids is exhausting, but if I have to, I’m going to do it alone. Just let me know and I’ll figure something else out.” — Debra Meyer’s email ([25:51])
• Shannon Henry: Asserts that the abuse was longstanding—even without a history of physical violence, Taylor used emotional, sexual, and psychological abuse to control Debra ([44:37]).

5. Sequence of Murder and Aftermath

• Immediate Circumstances: After the failed “date,” an argument ensued. Taylor violently assaulted Debra. He sent photos of her corpse to a coworker and family, blaming them for her death ([21:25], [39:33], [40:01]).
  • Crime Scene Insight (Dr. Kendall Crowns): Describes likely physical suffering—possible consciousness during stabbing; slow death from bleeding, pain, suffocation ([36:24], [38:54]).
  • Quote: “Each stab wound… causes pain… being stabbed in the chest could collapse lungs, make it difficult to breathe… until she finally bleeds out after a few minutes.” — Dr. Kendall Crowns ([38:54])
• Police Response: Officers forced entry after a coworker, fearing for Debra after a disturbing phone call, arrived with police and later received a photo of Debra’s body ([21:45], [22:34]).

6. Malevolent Justification and Lack of Remorse

• Killer’s Statements: Taylor blamed Debra, portraying himself as a victim and seeking validation from police and others ([39:33], [40:01]).
  • Quote: “I killed Debbie because she’s a cheating, lying btch… she just didn’t give a sht about the Paris themed date.” — Taylor Meyer, as reported to police ([40:01])
• Expert Analysis: Both Dr. Bethany Marshall and Shannon Henry emphasize the offender’s tendency to minimize effort, maximize expectations, and externalize blame—classic abuser psychology ([42:05]).

7. Debunking Defenses: Mental Illness & Temporary Insanity

• Nancy Grace’s View: Mental illness has no legal bearing unless the person truly cannot know right from wrong. Anger is not a defense; the actions were calculated ([09:58], [30:14]).
• Shannon Henry: Reminds listeners that acknowledging abusive behaviors and “living in your own reality” do not equate to being “insane” by legal standards ([44:37]).

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Nancy Grace, on premeditation:
  “The only degree of premeditation can be formed in seconds… that is enough time under the law for premeditation.” ([07:49])

• Shannon Henry, on abuse:
  “You don’t go from zero to murder this fast… every ‘gift’ was a threat and she knew it.” ([14:30])

• Dr. Kendall Crowns, on victim’s suffering:
  “Being stabbed in the chest, it could collapse lungs, make it difficult to breathe… she’s gagging while being stabbed over and over, feeling the pain until she finally bleeds out.” ([38:54])

• Nancy Grace, on justification attempts:
  “You might as well fill that in with 'I killed Debbie because she made tacos, not enchiladas.' There’s always a reason why the woman deserves to be murdered.” ([41:30])

• Shannon Henry, back to the defense attorney:
  “If what he just said was true, they would empty out every jail in the country because everybody would say I had a mental illness. I was angry.” ([44:24])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:05] Crime Facts: Paris Theme Night and Alleged Motive
• [03:00] Dr. Bethany Marshall: Domestic Violence and Control
• [07:49] Nancy Grace: Premeditation in Law Explained
• [13:23] Shannon Henry: Murder Was About Ownership, Not Rage
• [21:25] Death Photo Sent: Technology and Horror
• [24:12]/[25:51] Debra’s Emails: Insight Into the Marriage
• [34:54] Stabbing Sequence and Medical Forensics
• [36:24] Physical and Emotional Suffering Detailed
• [39:33]/[40:01] Killer’s Accusations and Remorseless Messages
• [43:16] Defense Attorney’s Closing Argument; Final Expert Rebuttal

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Conclusion

Nancy Grace and panelists expose the realities of domestic violence, debunk legal myths about “snapping” and “temporary insanity,” and center the discussion on the persistent patterns of control, jealousy, and abuse that so often precede domestic homicide. The experts demonstrate how emotional, psychological, and technological abuse often escalate to lethal violence, and they fiercely contest any narrative that diffuses responsibility. The victim, Debra Meyer, is portrayed as a hardworking, loving mother trying in vain to save her marriage, and the episode ends with a searing rebuke of attempts to excuse the killer's actions under the mantle of mental illness or temporary insanity.

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Episode Takeaway:
This episode unveils the dangerous dynamics of abusive relationships—the incremental erosion of autonomy, the abuser’s obsessive need for control, and tragic consequences when red flags are overlooked or minimized by both the abuser and, sometimes, legal professionals. The case stands as a stark reminder: anger, entitlement, and jealousy can never be defenses for murder.

Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

This is an Iheart podcast.

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[Nancy Grace]

Cmintmobile.com Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A Bloody Valentine. A husband murders his wife because she quote, just didn't give a about his Paris themed date. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

[Ryan Reynolds (Mint Mobile Ad)]

A Valentine's Day dinner turns deadly. An Indiana mother of three young kids is murdered during a romantic dinner.

[Nancy Grace]

Doesn't sound that romantic to me. He what? Goes to Kroger, to the fine wine aisle, brings home a bottle of wine and plays their favorite song along with the kids drawing of the Eiffel Tower. What is she not supposed to remember the affair he had. Now let me understand this. Is this real? A husband accused of bludgeoning and stabbing his wife 40 times. His words, not mine. Because she didn't give a shit about his Paris theme night date. I think I've got that right. But maybe I'm wrong. Listen.

[Ryan Reynolds (Mint Mobile Ad)]

Jeffersonville, Indiana police get a call about a possible domestic disturbance. They respond to the upscale 6600 block of Westwood Drive but cannot get into the home. Officers knock on the front door. Front door. But deny, hear a response and decide force is necessary and breach the door.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm going to get straight to the facts, but first I'm going to go to Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst joining us out of the LA jurisdiction, author of Deal Breaker. You can find her at Dr.bethany marshallmd.com wait, that's Dr. Bethany marshall.com and you can see her now on Peacock. Dr. Bethany, thank you for being with us. Let me understand something. Hubby puts on a sad little song. What does he pull it up on his iPhone of what used to be their favorite song. Buys a sad little bottle of wine at Kroger and has his child draw a picture of the Eiffel Tower. And he's angry that she quote his words, doesn't give a shit about his Paris theme night date. So he murders her. What is she, was she supposed to forget about the affair he had and be just bowled over by a glass of red wine.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

If we look at this from a domestic violence perspective, this husband probably wanted power and control over her because that's the MO with dv. And so probably him having an affair in the past, making her feel bad about herself, probably giving her very little in the marriage, was probably getting her to a point where she wanted some independence. And the fact that she wanted some independence destabilized him. So he steps up, does this little Valentine's Day dinner so he can try to get control over him again. He's not trying to seduce her, give her a gift or do. Do something nice for her. He wants her back in the fold. But when she leaves for 20 minutes, he becomes paranoid, thinks she's out with the boyfriend, and then he decompensates. And that's when the ragefulness and, you know, he. He takes the power over her to a whole new level. When you kill somebody, that's the ultimate power. Correct?

[Nancy Grace]

Let me understand something, Dr. Bet. What does it mean? Having not only prosecuted violent felonies for a decade in inner city Atlanta, but volunteered for nine of those years at the battered women's center on the hotline. How does it escalate? Or is that even the right word to get that angry because she didn't like your iPhone playing the night we met or whatever it was and giving me a glass of wine. How does that escalate into murder? Because in my world, Bethany, years of training makes me look at the world a different way. Such as, is there premeditation? Was this planned? When did he hatch the plot? What can I prove to a jury? What is probative to me? So the term you use, escalate. I don't know that I agree with that, because that somehow means that the situation got out of control and whoops, she's dead. That's not what happened. He had to go get the bottle that he used to bludgeon her, stab her. That took time and a forethought, a technical term we use in the law. It didn't just escalate and whoops, it happened. Right, Right.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

He didn't. In other words, he didn't snap because people love that word. So I see where you're going with this, and you're correct. Probably what happened is at the beginning of the marriage, he had tight control over her, and she wanted to have autonomy over her whole life, her own life. Maybe she took a college course or started getting friends or start went out and got a job. And as she became more and more independent. The escalation was that he became more and more paranoid, insecure. Remember, he sat on her back and was scrolling through her phone.

[Barry Hutchinson]

He.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

He was trying to spy on her through her watch. So when it escalated in that moment, it wasn't just like a snap or a sudden escalation. It had been escalating over years. But the fact is, when she said, okay, what are you going to do, kill me? That was one act of independence. When she left and got in her car and drove away, that was another act of independence. So I would think that homicide that was contemplated at an unconscious level or hatefulness, that was contem. For months or years, finally, finally, finally spilled over when she became her own person.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, Dr. Bethany, I accept everything that you just said. For those of you just joining us, a husband who is presumed innocent is suspected of bludgeoning and stabbing his wife dead when she, quote, his words, not mine, when she, quote, didn't give a about his Paris theme party. So he murders her on Valentine's. Greg Morse joining me, guys, Greg Morse joining us out of Palm Beach, Florida, is a veteran trial lawyer. He's a partner at King. Morse, Your name should be first, by the way. Former West Palm beach public defender's office and author of the Untested on Amazon. Greg, you know what? Of the many things that I hate, it's when people say I snapped or she snapped or he snapped. There is no snap defense under the law. Okay? So given that, and don't try to convince me otherwise, because that's a lie, he would have to in order to murder her in this manner. Bludgeoning the. Hey, Christina Araya, I'm coming to you. But how many children did they have? Two or three.

[Commercial Announcer / Ad Voice]

Three children, all under the age of five.

[Nancy Grace]

Greg Morse. The children are at home, by the way, asleep. He had to think. Under the law, premeditation does not require a long period of time, such as, I'm going to poison Greg Morris over the period of the next month with a little arsenic every day in his coffee till he is dead. Not required. In fact, the time required under the law, whether we like it or not, can be in an instant, the twinkling of the moment, the blink of an eye, the time it takes me to raise this gun and pull the trigger. That is enough time under the law for premeditation. In other words, murder one, malice, murder, murder aforethought. This guy, if the allegations are true, husband had to go and get the wine bottle, grasp it, raise it over his head, and bludgeon her over and over and over with the thick glass of a wine bottle and then stab her. The knife didn't just materialize in his hand. He had to get a knife and use it. So, long story short, that is time to form intent.

[Greg Morse]

You're right. Intent can come up in the moment. You're 100% right under the law. But in these type of cases, when you talk about the phrase snapped and I've represented people accused of violent felonies for 25 years, and one thing is the. When they. The act to commit the violence, most people don't understand that moment in time and the consequence and wish they can take it all back. But what we can't do is look at an insanity. We can't look at the crime. It's violent. It's horrible. So therefore, the person must be insane. That crime is the outgrowth of insanity. And what I think we have here, and I've dealt with this before in cases, you probably have a timeline of this person, the husband, you know, getting frustrated, getting more warped in his understanding of his wife's relationship. People think mental illness is someone in a white coat in a room. But mental illness can develop subtly, and it can develop over time. These folks were looking for help. They had, I guess, an appointment with a marriage counselor three days later. Unfortunately, they didn't make.

[Nancy Grace]

You are actually plunging a dagger into my heart. Your misstatement of the law is shameless. Mental illness. He had no prior mental illness at all. He got mad because his wife. And he said this. She just didn't give a. About my parents theme night. He said that. That is not mental illness. That is anger. Yes. No anger. A defense.

[Greg Morse]

This was a rage in the law.

[Nancy Grace]

Yes.

[Greg Morse]

No rage for killing. 100% rageful killing. This.

[Nancy Grace]

That amount of stab wounds is rage under the law. Can you answer that with a straight face, Morse?

[Greg Morse]

No. But if I'm living in a reality where that is the appropriate response to her reaction, then, yes, it is. Again, Nancy, the crime is the outgrowth of insanity.

[Nancy Grace]

Is anger the appropriate response to her reaction for his date night? Oh. Oh, okay.

[Greg Morse]

That's the point.

[Nancy Grace]

First of all, control room.

[Greg Morse]

So she might be insane.

[Nancy Grace]

Cut his mic. Cut his mic right now. Shannon Henry. Right there is the problem.

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[Nancy Grace]

CementMobile.com Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Shannon Henry is joining me. She is the president and founder of Sass S A S S Go. It is Surviving assault, standing strong on a mission to eradicate abuse and violence against women and girls. Shannon, did you hear what he just said?

[Shannon Henry]

I did and I'm so glad you cut him off so that the people listening don't believe that crap. This was not just about power and control. This was about ownership. He didn't have any anymore and so he stole it. It was not about rage. It wasn't a crime of passion. I don't want to hear that either. This was a sadistic killing where he enjoyed watching her suffer from the dress he made her put on to the dance he made her do to the end where she begged for her life and the lives children. It was the grand finale of their marriage from start to finish and he enjoyed it all. And I guarantee you this wasn't the first time she felt like her life was being threatened. But it was the last.

[Nancy Grace]

Would you describe Shannon Henry? And I'm going to go out to the national news anchor at CLM News Channel, Christine Wio. But Shannon Henry joining us from surviving assault, standing strong mission eradicate violence on women. You said from the dress he made her wear to the dance he made her do. What are you talking about?

[Shannon Henry]

I'm talking about him setting up a stage where every gift quote unquote was a threat and she knew it you don't go from zero to murder this fast. And if she could clarify it for us all today, she would beg us to listen to her final words of help and what are you going to do? Murder me and leave our children without parents? She was not confused about him. There is a gap that we have in the story between her working hard as a 12 hour shift nurse to him being promiscuous and lazy up to the date of February 14, 2025 where he murdered her. But I guarantee you some of her friends and co workers and family could fill in this gap for us. But the red flags are there. This was about ownership. He didn't have it anymore, so he stole it and bragged to everyone he who he could about taking it.

[Ryan Reynolds (Mint Mobile Ad)]

New details emerge after an Indiana doting husband and father allegedly confesses to murder after feeling unappreciated. Were warning signs missed?

[Nancy Grace]

Warning signs unappreciated. That is not justification for murder. And joining me who I've got a lot of problems with him, Greg Morse, a veteran trial lawyer. He's the partner at a big law firm, King Morse. He's apparently the king of the courtroom down down in Palm Beach County, Florida. But to Shannon Henry joining us, you can look at Morse but keep his mic cut for just a moment. Shannon Henry joining me from Sass Surviving Assault Standing strong. We got off topic because what you were saying was so interesting. But I want to go back to what Morse said. He responded and got angry to her because of her reaction to his Paris theme night, which was basically bottle of cheap red wine and playing a song on his iPhone. That was the theme night. And then getting some sexy dress and making her wear it and dance with him. That was the theme night. Okay, right there. Shannon Henry, I can't tell you how many times I heard I did it because she Fill in the blank. Here is my seminal example, Shannon. This is a real example. This happened on the hotline at the battered women's center. The man beats the wife so badly she has to go to the hospital because he was bringing people from work home and he told her to make a Mexican dinner. So she makes a Mexican dinner. He comes in and finds out, I don't remember which one. She made tacos, not enchiladas. And he beat her to a pulp. So he actually said, well, it's because she made the wrong thing. Here you hear Greg Morse defense. And I, I know what he's doing. He's defending the husband here. That's his job. He is saying he just had this response because of her reaction. She reacted badly and he responded. It's always the woman's fault, Shannon.

[Shannon Henry]

It's always the woman's fault. And what's so sad is to look at the stack of red flags that are against him. He had no remorse. He bragged about how big the knife was. He sent the pictures. He made her do a song and dance in front of him and act like she enjoyed it. And when she didn't seem to appreciate it, he murdered her. And he is the only one responsible for that.

[Nancy Grace]

We also learned that he was convinced his wife was dating a co worker. Enter Barry Hutchinson, former law enforcement, 26 years old, veteran detective, now owner, chief operator of Barry and Associates Investigative Services. And you can find him on his new website, P I Pride. Investigator Barry B A R R Y. Barry, thank you for being with us. Oh, what a tangled web results from imagining your mate is having an affair with a co worker. Lucky for me, my husband, he knew I would never have an affair with a defense attorney or all the other eligible men that were in the courtroom, mostly convicted felons in leg irons and shackles. And I have never even considered that he would run around with a client or a co worker. I just. In fact, one time I read his emails. One time. One time. They were so boring. He's a banker. My eyes bled. I had. I just. It was awful. If I had to check up on a man to figure out if he's cheating, why do I need him?

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

Bye.

[Nancy Grace]

Bye. But here, this guy was convinced she's having an affair and it justified murder.

[Barry Hutchinson]

Well, there's no justification in murder, regardless what the circumstances are, Nancy. You know that as well as I do. I think what we have here is a classic case of when motive meets opportunity. I think it was a long based, toxic relationship that this young lady unfortunately should have been out of long before this ever happened. The only saving grace in this whole scenario that I can even come up with in my mind is that I'm just thankful that it didn't turn out to be a SWAT call where the kids were endangered, where he actually executed the children too, as the ultimate showing of I'm going to hurt them in front of you just to show you what I think of you kind of deal. We've seen that happen on SWAT calls many, many, many times. And we're fortunate that didn't take place.

[Nancy Grace]

You mean what they call now, Barry, a family annihilator. So what I'm asking you, and it was in a very roundabout way, and I apologize for that. Barry, I know that as a PI you get a lot of calls about, I think my girlfriend, boyfriend, ex wife, blah, blah, is cheating. Isn't it true that very often people get this in their head and it's absolutely not true at all?

[Barry Hutchinson]

That's very true. Very true. In fact, the biggest thing that we do and we tell all of our clients this up front, is that our mission is to vet your spouse that they are not cheating. And if it turns out that they are, then we'll address it at that point. But our mission is to vet them that they are not doing.

[Nancy Grace]

So, guys, listen to what happened.

[Ryan Reynolds (Mint Mobile Ad)]

Deborah's friend receives a photo texted from Deborah's phone. It shows Debra Meyer motionless and bloody on the floor of her home with the Caption, your fault. 911 dispatch gets a call from co worker of Debra Meyer. When they arrive, Taylor Meyer is refusing to come to the door. Almost as soon as police arrive, so does Debra Meyer's co worker.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, I've got so much premeditation, it's out the yin yang, technical legal term. Here to Kristen Wyo. Joining me, national news anchor Salem News. Explain to me that sequence of events. The co worker finds out that there's a, quote, domestic situation which is, you know, a euphemism for somebody's getting their rear end beat. All right? That's what that means. Co worker calls 911 and co worker says Deborah Meyer is being attacked right now. Go to this address. Cops get there and then the co worker gets a text. Describe that sequence of events for me so I understand exactly what happened.

[Commercial Announcer / Ad Voice]

That's the wildest part about all of this, right? So Deborah Meyer's husband Taylor actually calls a contact in the phone who he thinks is the boyfriend, which is actually the co worker while he's sitting on Deborah Meyer's back and she's screaming in the background, help me, help me, help me. So her coworker hears this while her husband is telling the coworker, this is all your fault. So of course the coworker calls the cops and says she's in danger. I can hear her screaming. He hops in his car, hightails it over to her house, as do the cops. And they're, they're meeting in the front yard. The cops are trying to get into the front door. Of course, Taylor Meyer's not answering the door because he's abusing his wife, possibly killing her at that very moment because it was while the co worker was standing in the front yard of the home. He gets the text message of the picture of Deborah Meyer on the on the floor of her own home, dead. So that's when police officers decide to bust down the door. They said that Taylor Meyer was aggressive, resisted arrest, and they finally arrested him. But it's almost safe to presume that he could have been in the act of killing her while the police officers and the co worker were out on the front lawn trying to get into the house. I mean, it was that tight of a timeline.

[Ryan Reynolds (Mint Mobile Ad)]

Accusing her husband of cheating on her and ignoring their children via email, Deborah tries explaining her feelings by saying, I'm supposed to be your wife, your partner, raising children with you, co parenting. I get that you have hobbies and want want some time to yourself, but I also feel like that should be limited to certain times of the day and not just immediately get home, shower and go play games and ignore your family that has missed you all day.

[Nancy Grace]

That is an email that she, the murder victim, sent to her husband prior to her murder. Christina Oio joining me, national news anchor, Salem News. So she is asking him to help her raise the children. I quote, get you have hobbies and want time to yourself. But I also feel like you should spend time with the children, not just get home, shower and go play games. I backflip after I work all day long and make dinner. And if my husband came home and immediately went to the back and got on video games, oh yeah, fur would fly. Let me just tell you that. And she's writing in this nice email about it.

[Commercial Announcer / Ad Voice]

It and this was back in 2023 and this is the same email where she accused him of cheating. So the story of infidelity is going back to the beginning part of their marriage. She said that he was in the email, accused him of having a relationship with another woman which he kept in contact, constant contact with. And she even accused him of seeing that woman who she thought she was dating directly before the family went and took family Christmas pictures. So she already thought he was cheating. He may have been cheating. He was ignoring the family. She was reaching out and she in that email actually threatened to leave him, which she didn't want to do because it was going to be hard to take care of the three kids. But she was going to. Yes.

[Nancy Grace]

What did nude photos on somebody's phone mean to you? Cheating. Because for me that means D I V O R C E and Dr. Bethany Marshall. Listen to this.

[Ryan Reynolds (Mint Mobile Ad)]

Frustrated and feeling like a single mom, Debra writes an email to her husband accusing him of cheating, claiming he met up with his girlfriend minutes before they took their Family Christmas photo together at a mall. In the explosive email, Debra says she doesn't want him sending and receiving nude photos from people he was with before they were together as a couple. Debra also accuses her husband of ignoring her and the couple's three children to play video games. She concludes the email with quote, raising three kids is exhausting, but if I have to, I'm going to do it alone. Just let me know and I'll figure something else out.

[Nancy Grace]

Raising three children on her own, that's how she felt. Nude photos he's exchanging with old girlfriends. According to her, ducking out to see the girlfriend before the Christmas photo together. First of all, Bethany Marshall, do you agree with me that sending nude photos is cheating?

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

I agree with you.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay. I'm really surprised you said that. I thought you were gonna take the other. Other tack. But explain to me. I mean, I would be so hurt to find out my husband's exchanging nude photos. First of all, I wouldn't believe it. I think somebody had stolen his phone and was doing it. But that said, it's cheating.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Okay, Nancy, not only is this cheating, but Taylor entered this relationship, this marriage with Deborah thinking he could do whatever he wants to do. And Deborah was in a double bind. She sent out to work, she's a nurse. She supports the family. And all the time that she's out there working, he's just brewing up a fantasy that she's cheating on him, when in fact it's a projection because he's cheating on her. I love what Shannon said about this is not just about power. This is about ownership. He owns her and he can do whatever he wants. Send her out like a dog to work the minute she gets home, go out, have his own affair, do whatever he wants to do. He's highly manipulative, and he's been grooming her for years that she is just an object to be used. I also think, Nancy, that he is so vindictive. This is a part of his personality, and it comes out when he's talking to the police. It's almost like he's bragging about the knife. And I think one underlying component that we all need to recognize about DV is that perpetrators, everything hurts their feelings. Everything makes them feel insulted, like they've been insulted by the other person. So your story about the man who beat his wife to a pulp because she made tacos rather than enchiladas, he probably took that as a personal affront, felt insulted, then felt diminished, then deflated, and then went on the attack, because that is the classic pattern.

[Nancy Grace]

I want to go straight back out to Greg Morse joining us. Please re uncut his mic. Partner at King Morris, veteran trial lawyer. I hope you've had time to think about what you said, that he killed her because of the way she reacted. Would you like to clarify your opinion?

[Greg Morse]

Yeah. And, and with this premeditation stuff on these facts, everyone has to make a lot of leaps of faith and frankly it's just, just it's, it's not there in what we know so far. What I was saying is that when people have mental illness and this is a hard case, you know, you were a prosecutor. Temporary insanity.

[Nancy Grace]

Are you back on mental illness?

[Greg Morse]

No, no, no. But I would use.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm sorry, you just gave me a sharp pain in my head.

[Greg Morse]

Nancy, all of your experts just made my case for me. I'd hire them. In my case, talking about how he wants to control an act that would, that would let us believe he made. No, what I'm saying is that this guy, there's no domestic violence before. So if he wants to control every aspect of her life and he's contrived and intentional, we're going to see police reports. Generally we see this act out well before the murder. In these cases, what we have is mental illness doesn't just come with people in white coats and screaming about aliens. It's very subtle. And if this guy believed at the time that his wife reaction, he was living in this alternate reality to him that caused him to do this, well, you know, then you have. He wasn't thinking right and wrong in that situation. There's no evidence whatsoever that this guy was planning this. Did he plan to buy the wine bottle before the show and do I mean before the dinner so he can hit her over the head with it? No, none of that is there. Did he plan.

[Nancy Grace]

That's not required under the law. Once again, you are contorting the law to suit your purposes. Again, that degree of premeditation is not required. The only degree of premeditation can be formed in seconds. By the time it takes him to walk in the kitchen and get the wine bottle and come back, that's enough time. Plus he stabbed her 40 times. Do I have to say Jodi Arias? Do I have to raise up that specter? Jodi Arias stabbed Travis Alexander 29 times, then shot him in the head, leaving him to decompose in the shower stall. Just because you attacked someone multiple times does not insanity make. It makes you a killer. A cold blooded killer.

[Greg Morse]

That's what I started out with. That the act doesn't make someone insane at all. The act is the outgrowth of insanity. Sometimes when we have that, killing someone, people shooting up a school, that seems insane to all of us because we wouldn't do it. But, you know, under the law, just because you did that doesn't mean you're insane. You knew right from wrong. You shouldn't have done it. What? My point is, Jodi Arias didn't take pictures and send it. Jodi Arias didn't act like this was an okay.

[Nancy Grace]

Yes, she did.

[Greg Morse]

She got caught. She.

[Nancy Grace]

She took pictures.

[Greg Morse]

She. Yes, she took pictures.

[Nancy Grace]

Busted. She did take pictures.

[Greg Morse]

No, I understand that. I completely understand that. She did. Look how this guy acted in this case with the police. That's not how someone that intends to commit murder acts. They just don't. They don't do that.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, letting the police come in by knowing enough to barricade the door, more. More evidence of guilt.

[Greg Morse]

You know what?

[Nancy Grace]

Let me jog your memory as to the real facts. Not the facts in Greg Morse world, but the actual facts from the police reports.

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[Nancy Grace]

Run a business and not thinking about radio, Think again, because more people are listening to the radio, and IHEART today than they were 20 years ago. And only iHeart broadcast radio connects with more Americans than TV, digital, social, any other media, even twice as many teens than TikTok. And that reach means everything. Just think about the universal marketing formula. The number of consumers who hear your message times the response rate equals the results. Now let's get those results growing for your business. Radio's here now more than ever. And iheart's leading the way. Think radio can help your business. Think iheart streaming, podcasting and radio where the reach is real. Let us show [e-mail] that's iheartadvertising.com or call 844-844 iheart one more time. Just call 844-844, iheart and get radio working for you. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

[Ryan Reynolds (Mint Mobile Ad)]

After hitting his wife in the head with a glass wine bottle several times, Taylor Meyer says Deborah was unconscious but he wasn't sure if she was dead. So he went into the kitchen and got a quote, big knife, a long one, and came back to her while she is laid out on the floor and stabs her over and over again in the chest. All told, the 36 year old mother of three, Deborah Meyer, is stabbed 40 times after being beaten in the head with a wine bottle.

[Nancy Grace]

He just heard trial lawyer at a Palm beach describing how the husband in this scenario now murdered defendant Taylor Meyer says to police, I wasn't sure she was totally dead. So after I beat her in the head with a wine bottle, I went in the kitchen and got a quote. His words, not mine, big knife, a long one. And while she laid on the floor, stabbed her over and over again in the chest. Joining me now is renowned chief medical examiner from Tarrant county, that's Fort Worth, esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU, Dr. Kendall Crowns. He's about to launch a hit podcast called DOA Dead on Arrival April 7th. Dr. Kendall Crowns. Could you describe what the victim endured after the first blow with the thick end of a wine bottle?

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

Certainly. So basically a bottle when you're struck in the head, the harder edge of the bottle will hit into your head, causing contusions or bruises, tearing at the skin. Usually bottles aren't heavy enough to break the skull, but they can cause you to go unconscious or cause you to collapse. You're going to have pain associated with that, headaches. But if they beat you into unconsciousness, he's probably looking at her still, seeing she's breathing. I've seen that before where they can't Kill him with the wine bottle. So they go switch up and find something else. He walked into the kitchen, came back, and then started stabbing her with a knife. The fact that he stabbed her in the chest over 40 times, clustered all together, is what we call overkill. So she's obviously unconscious or subdued at that point, and he just keeps stabbing her until she stops breathing.

[Nancy Grace]

Dr. Kendall crowns after the first blow to the head with a wine bottle, we have no evidence that the wine bottle was broken. So that corroborates your theory as to the nature of the first blow. I believe, based on the fact the wine bottle was still intact, that she was conscious and saw him coming at her with a knife. Lying there immobilized, with her children above her, asleep in bed, she sees her husband approach her with a knife, and the stabbing begins. Is that scenario feasible? Dr. Kendall crowns yes, that is a.

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

Possibility that she could still have been conscious. She could have been trying to fake that she was. There's also a possibility that when he beats her to the ground with the wine bottle, that he could have jumped on her back, breaking her spinal column. The many possibilities. And that could leave her paralyzed. And so she could still be conscious and see him approaching with the knife and not be able to do anything about it.

[Nancy Grace]

She was stabbed 40 times.

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

Four.

[Nancy Grace]

Zero. With a, quote, big kitchen knife. Quote, a long one. Obviously, she died from bleeding out. So explain to me, if she was not killed in the initial stabs, what would she have endured as she was stabbed repeatedly in the chest?

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

So it's going to take her a few minutes to bleed out from the stab wounds. So you. Each stab wound that he is able to deliver is going to cause pain from the cutting of the skin and the piercing of the organs with the knife. And then the fact that she's being stabbed in the chest, it could collapse lungs, making it difficult for her to breathe. She could also be coughing blood up and then swallowing the blood. So she's getting blood in her mouth, inhaling the blood, gagging while she's being stabbed over and over, feeling the pain until she finally bleeds out after a few minutes. Granted, 40 stab wounds, he could probably deliver those in that entire time frame that it takes her to bleed out.

[Ryan Reynolds (Mint Mobile Ad)]

Officers are shocked to learn that husband Taylor Meyer took pictures of his wife's lifeless body and sent it to Debra's friend and co worker who called 911. Meyer also texted his wife's family and friends, saying, I killed Debbie because she's a cheating, lying b. Tch. Meyer says wife just didn't give a shit about the Paris themed date he planned. An Indiana man sent photos to an alleged lover after a Valentine's Day dinner went sour. What's next for the father of three?

[Nancy Grace]

Let me understand what I'm hearing. That he actually tells police that he murdered his wife because she, quote, just didn't give a about his Paris theme dinner. And Christina Ouayo joining a Salem news channel. He wrote the relatives sent her relatives a picture of her bludgeon stabbed body and said, I killed Debbie because she is a cheating, lying. Is that right?

[Commercial Announcer / Ad Voice]

Yes, that is correct. He did that. He sent it to the co worker saying, it's your fault. And what's interesting is while he was speaking to police, all of this revealed in the affidavit. He was almost trying to get them on his side, like, explaining, you understand, right? She did this to me. This was the hardest I ever tried. He said, and if the hardest you've ever tried is buying a dress, taking your wife out to dinner, it's pretty indicative of how much effort you put into the relationship over the last four years. But he was literally explaining to the cops like they were boys, like they were friends. This is why I did it. Can't you understand? She did this to me. She didn't care. I worked so hard on the celebration and she just didn't care.

[Nancy Grace]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Christina, but I understood. He did not take her out to dinner that they ordered delivery, Japanese delivery.

[Commercial Announcer / Ad Voice]

Well, according to the. What I read in the affidavit, it wasn't clear on if they went out or ordered in. It was that he got her a dinner from their favorite Japanese steakhouse to.

[Nancy Grace]

Go with their Paris theme night. Okay, Dr. Bethany Marshall, help me out here. I kill Debbie because she is a cheating, lying. You know what? You might as well fill that in with I killed Debbie because she made tacos, not enchiladas. There's always a reason why the woman deserves to be murdered. Have you noticed that? And he's trying to get the cops to agree with him. She's such a hoe. She's a liar. She's a cheater. She's a. She goes on and on. She did this, she did that. I had to kill her. Well, like they're gonna agree and. And give him father of the year.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

You know, Nancy, probably what was happening leading up to this too, was that he was calling co workers and family members and trying to recruit everybody to be on his. His side. Because this just spills over when he starts to Talk to the police. He probably feels very beleaguered by her. And it's very common for these types of men to invest very little into the relationship, but expect everything back from the house, from the. From the spouse. So he just orders up a steak dinner. He doesn't cook. Perhaps he doesn't even take her to the restaurant. Buys her probably a horse dress, makes her dance to the music. But he expects all these accolades and all this praise from her. So it's almost like. Like when you ask your child, set. Set the table for dinner, and they just do something really small like set a plate down. They think they deserve so much praise because that's where they are developmentally. Well, these domestic abusers are caught developmentally at that same phase of life where they. They just invest the tiniest, teensiest little bit. And when they don't get all the praise they want, all hell breaks loose.

[Nancy Grace]

To Greg Morse, Believe it or not, I'm giving you the final argument. Hit me.

[Greg Morse]

Well, it is. This is not all of these factors and inferences you're making to show premeditation. He's controlling. He's a domestic abuser. So let's suppose there is no murder. And we hear this guy does this. It's just a story. A Paris theme night. What a romantic thing. He tried to bring his wife. Paris. How nice. So my point is, he's not acting like someone who planned this. If he was aggressive and an abuser the whole night, when she leaves for 20 minutes, why does she come. Come back? You would have seen signs of that. My point is insanity can come up below the surface, and it can be there. And having the appointment in three days lends me to believe that this was not planned. This was something. Unless you believe he planned the appointment to show that he really loved his wife and was trying and tried to set up an insanity defense. But it's a horrible outcome. It's a difficult case to defend. Don't get me wrong. It is very challenging. But. But I think mental illness is a lot more prevalent in relationships. And I've talked about this on TV in cases I've had before, and this is the outgrowth of it, and it does create. This guy was living in his own reality, you know?

[Nancy Grace]

Shannon Henry joining me, President, founder of sass, Surviving assault, standing strong. If what he just said was true, they would empty out every jail in the country because everybody would say I had a mental illness. I was angry.

[Shannon Henry]

That's right. And she came back because she had kids there, and she's a good mom. His last attempt to get help was to kill her. Hers was to go to therapy. And I do want to say she was a nurse. To Greg. She was a nurse. She knew exactly what was happening to her body when it was happening. And he knew that she would understand that experience, too. So while he may not have physically hit her before this day, and there may not be police reports, he abused her for years by doing his best to break her down with infidelity and isolation and insecurity. And by the way, you can be depressed, you can be a psychopath, you can be a narcissist without being an abuser. And I want you to know, I would never. You would never be able to hire me. And if I did come, I would be honored to clarify that the abuse women endure at the hands of unprincipled lawyers like you is awful. Just awful. And shame on you for trying to make it clear that this person is insane when he's clearly not. He knew what he was doing from start to finish, from the dress to the stabbing. And then he bragged about it.

[Nancy Grace]

Nancy Grace, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an I Heart podcast.