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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
Body Bags With Joseph Scott Morgan | 5-year-old Finds Mom, Dad, Shot To Death in Bed: Teen Sister Accused of Murders!cbhuilieriidggtbfvkvnvbgrklfbvtbufffevid
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This is an iHeart podcast.
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Guaranteed Human.
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A
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Body docks with Joseph Scott Morgan. You know, there are certain states around the country where you can't really figure out where one ends and the other begins. I've been to a lot of those locations and no words were ever truer regarding the boundaries between rural Georgia and rural Alabama. There's a road that drifts off into the west coming out of the town or around the area of Carrollton. Georgia heads for the Georgia Alabama border. And look, if you cross the border from one state into the other, you couldn't really tell where you know, if you were still in one state as opposed to the other. But you know, sometimes on those lonely roads like that, some of the most intriguing and curious cases happen. And that's. That's kind of a comment toward people that think only cool cases or really interesting cases happen in big cities because they don't. Today on Body Bags, I want to offer up comment on a case that has happened and one such location in a little town that's not really on a map. It's unincorporated. The name of the town is called Tyus Ty, Georgia. And along this stretch of roadway bordered by Pulpwood Pines, a double homicide has taken place and a young woman is about to go on trial. She's been accused of the murder of both her mother and her stepfather. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body Bags. You know, Dave, in saying what I just commented on in the opening, I. It's amazing how many people will say they hear about some kind of horrible crime and it happens in some far flung rural area. And they'll say, I just can't believe that happened here. And my answer to that is the fact is that humans are humans no matter where you go. It's just that you get a tighter concentration of things, greater frequency in, you know, in large urban areas. But violence persists everywhere you go. Or the potential, let me put it to you that way, the potential for violence and horror and all those sorts of things. And no, no more so than in the the case of the accused Sarah Grace Patrick that we're talking about today. Brother.
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C
You know, when this story first broke, it got a lot of attention, you know, from a lot of different sources. You and I talked about it, we talked about it on several different shows because it is one of those things that you look at and go how you know how and what went on. Because you actually have a behind closed door story here. You know, you've got a, you have a blended family. And blended families, blended families at their best are odd. You know, they really are because you never know the inner workings oftentimes and, and this is, I don't know that this is the case here, but you know, whenever you have a parent, biological mom, step parent.
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B
Yep.
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C
You know, biological father, there are going to be issues. Even under the best of circumstances, there will be issues. But as a child, and you and I both know this on a personal level, being raised in that environment, a lot of times as a child you suck it up for the sake of peace in the family. You don't say things that you would normally that you would say if they were both your biological mom and dad. And the same is true with them. They treat things much. It's just a different thing because everybody is protecting everyone else, it seems.
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B
Yeah, it is. You kind of divide up into these camps and listen, I got to tell you, personally, I grew up in the environment and as an adult, I'm part of the environment as well. You know, Kim and I, you know, we've got a blended family. And it's, it's not just that dynamic that you're in the household with day in and day out. It's also that added ingredient of all the external stressors that come about with exes and all those sorts of things. And they're the ex's extended family and you know, who thinks this about this, you know, all that sort of stuff, that dynamic. And it's a weird kind of kind of circumstance. And then when you have a child born into the environment, that is becomes a half yours.
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C
Mine and ours.
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B
Yeah, yeah. It's. That dynamic is so incredibly bizarre. And then you throw on top of it, teenage hood into that environment. You know, my wife taught, my wife taught middle school for, for years and years and she, she used to say, you will never come across a creature on the face of planet that's, that's more trying of the soul than a middle grade girl.
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C
She's like 12, 13, 14 in that era.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she would say, you know, boys are just boys, you know, they're going to tear stuff up, they're going to Climb on stuff. They're going to do stupid things. But um, and you know, I don't know, it's an interesting dynamic. It certainly is. But Dave, I've never. We cover a lot of stuff. I don't recall a case like this that has come to this level of violence where you've got a. Well, she was a child at the time.
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C
16.
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B
That was 16 years old. That is being accused of something that is this heinous man.
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C
Well, this Jamie and Kristen Brock were actually, they were the, the poster parents for blended families. A lot of people looked up to them. Now they have in their history like we all do, dancing skeletons in the closet. And I will tell you that it's difficult to get past your past if you keep holding on to it. You know, you have to put it, you got to leave the past where it belongs and move on. The problem is not everybody can do that. Especially and you mentioned it, the extended family of the blended family. And so if you did something when you were a 25 year old man and now it's 15 years later, you're 40 and you've cleaned up your act, you've got a great job and a great family, you're respected in the community and in church, you're very active and volunteering for everything. Somebody's still going to say yeah, but I remember when, I remember when you were 25, Dave, and you got naked at that company Christmas party and you were making photocopies of your genitals, everybody.
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B
Yeah.
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C
And remember the time you got your cocoa puff stuff up your nose? Yeah, I was there. I mean that you always have that. And so in this case we have some of that going on. But I, I pulled up one of the first reports that we did on this on Nancy Grace and this is what it said. Jamie Brock and Kristen Brock are the couple other family members look up to. They're a blended family, each having children from other relationships. Kristen's 16 year old daughter Sarah Grace Patrick is living in the home as Jamie and Kristen welcome their own little girl, completing the yours, mine and ours scenario. Through all their happiness, the Brocks have a dark cloud hanging over their heads. Jamie Brock, known for his big heart full of love, also happens to have a weak heart and needs a transplant soon if he wants to see his children grow up. Waiting on a heart transplant doesn't slow Jamie down. His son Tristan says most people don't even know that his father has an LVAD device. Lvad, it's a mechanical pump that is implanted to support a failing heart's left ventricle. It's used as a bridge to a transplant. And Jamie Brock is hoping he gets a transplant soon. He's 45 years old. Joe, talk to me about what that means in his life having that device.
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B
Well, it's he saddled, you know, and I take exception to the idea that no one would know. He has to literally carry around a packet with him everywhere he goes or be plugged into a monitor. And that comes into play here as well. In this particular case, you know, you've got this thing that you are boat anchor to forever and ever, you know, dependent. Dependent upon the opportunity to have access to a heart, a viable heart that's going to pair up with you. The left ventricle of the heart does a tremendous amount of work. And so that heart wall gets weakened. Right. And so you have to have this LVAD that stimulates the heart. The term LVAD actually stands for left ventricular assist dev. So it effectively works in the sense that it has to be surgically implanted to assist the left ventricle and it's going to prompt the heart to continue to function appropriately. And the thing about it is that without this, you would be. I don't know. Have you ever heard the term, Dave? Have you ever heard the term end stage? It's a medical term. Okay. So some people get it confused with in stay I in state. In the case of an lvad, this is indicative of somebody that is without it, they are in end E N D stage.
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C
It's all over.
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B
Yeah, it's all over but the crime. So he, you know, he kind of walks around with this hanging over there. Can you imagine walking around day to day with a reminder of your frailty, you know, at that age? Yeah, you know, you're in, you know, we're talking about a guy that's not ancient by any. He's 45 years old, Joe, 45. And you know, he's. He's out living life and you know, you always have this remain reminder, you know, kind of hanging around always. And there's always that sound of the monitor. No matter where you go, it's really hard to escape.
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C
You know, there's an interesting thing written here, Joe, by the way, the reason we're covering the story of Sarah Grace Patrick today. The trial was scheduled to begin Monday, January 5th, but they were waiting on one very specific report. And they being the prosecution and the defense and. And they didn't get that report before the Christmas holiday break. And when they had the. They actually had a court meeting the first or second week of December, and the judge said, hey, is everybody ready? It's a really truncated timetable here. I mean, we're talking about. They arrested her in July, Sarah Grace Patrick. They arrested her for the double homicide of her mom and stepfather. And here we are six months later, less, and they're saying, yeah, we're ready to go. And.
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B
Well, I got to tell you, this is kind of interesting, Dave, and this is something I don't. That you don't normally see with great frequency. The judge in this particular case has been very aggressive. Like, he's staying with what has been termed as an aggressive timeline.
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C
Right.
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B
Moving forward. And one of the. One of the fascinating things about this case, and it's kind of drawn me to it, I literally drive through this area with great frequency because my grandchildren live over in Georgia, So I have to pass through this area. And for any of you guys that follow me on Instagram and, you know those things like that, you'll see that I am absolutely, totally in love with my grandchildren. And right now, we're coming off holidays. I've got baby brain right now. Welcome, welcome. Rest right now. They'll be going back to school soon anyway. Anyway, I digress. Yeah. You know, it really captured my imagination because this case, they have not released a tremendous amount of information. However, I will tell you this. It happened in Carroll County, Georgia. And the thing about it is, is that it's not merely the Carroll County Sheriff's Office that's investigating this case. It's also the GBI and the FBI. Dave, you know, in this case, out there on that stretch of road, this is not something that you would. That you're going to see. I mean, it's so. And the thing about it, you know how I talked about concentration many times, violence seems. Location seems more violent. I think a lot of it has to do with population density. And when I say you go through this area, you can go a mile and not see a house.
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C
Wow.
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B
All right. And it's that sparsely, you know, populated. There's not a lot of concentration. So the idea that something like this that has occurred in this location is. It must be, because this is a real rural area. When you drive through this pasture Lane, it's some of the prettiest, prettiest countryside you've ever seen. You're driving through there, and you've got cows and you've got corn, you know, and stuff like this just doesn't happen out there, or it seems like it doesn't happen. It doesn't happen because there's not this huge concentration of population. But Dave, I got to tell you, how did kind of run it down to us about how all this came about and people became aware of it.
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C
You know back to the geography. I always think of traveling like from Atlanta to Birmingham on I20.
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B
Yeah.
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C
Straight shot. And you know this is one of those areas as you arrive from Alabama into Georgia, you know you've got Carrollton. That's one of the first Tallapoosa Carrollton. And so that's why I was wondering how that affected you and your driving back and forth to Georgia, you know, in that area. But on the morning of February 20th and I'm talking about 2025 again this is something that is so recent it has not even been a year yet.
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B
Again, back to the judge, aggressive timeline. Okay.
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C
And I, I do have a question for you about that and yeah. How it impacts you and what you do. But February 20th, early morning, five year old daughter of Jamie and Kristen Brock goes to her parents bedroom to wake them up. Now this is her mom and dad. Remember how we talked about blended family, yours, mine and ours. She goes into their bedroom to wake them up because they're usually up and they're not. And when she goes to her parents bedroom what she sees is enough to make her run away from the bedroom. Her 16 year old sister Sarah Grace Patrick grabs her and hey, what's going on? Goes and looks and immediately calls 91 1. What the five year old discovered was her mother and father dead in their bed, their bodies riddled with bullets. On the phone with 91 1, Sarah Grace tells the dispatcher the bodies are cold to the touch past the need to do CPR because that is the first thing the 911 operator wants to do.
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B
Yep.
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C
That is they want to know can you do cpr? And they'll talk you through it. And they're pretty persistent about that, about doing it and which we've seen on a number of occasions, Joseph Scott Morgan, where a suspect in a crime didn't really do it, you know, or didn't give it their all. Which is fascinating to me when you're talking about a loved one that anyway, so.
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B
Well I. Hey look, he immediately had immediate recall on. On Ellen.
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C
Yep. That's what I was thinking about, you.
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B
Know, where oh my God, she's got a knife. You know and he's asking all these questions, you know because the 911 operator at that point in time up there in that case up in Philly you know, she didn't. This is not some big mystery at that point. They're trying to save the person's life. And so you're going to be asking the caller, can you do 911? And it's interesting, you know, that she would, you know, have the presence of mind to say that, yeah, they're cold. They're cold. I find that, you know, kind of. Kind of fascinating, though.
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C
Well, the Carroll County Sheriff's department on the scene within minutes began looking over the scene and, you know, that doesn't. There's no sign of a forced entry. There is a door that does seem a bit ajar. But investigators spent all day at the home combing over the evidence, the residents looking for any evidence. They spoke to neighbors and they looked at surveillance videos. The home ends up surrounded by police cruisers. It's all roped off because they don't know what they're looking at. They know. Think about it. The five year old discovered the bodies of her parents and the 16 year old daughter called police. Now, there is one tip here, Joe, and it's interesting because, you know, I said at the beginning that the fam. This is a family that people looked up to, you know, because of how they had been able to blend their families and the relationships between Sarah Grace Patrick and. And her mom and stepfather. Well, after this happened, a few things came out. One was prior to any of this stuff happening, Jamie Brock actually was talking to his niece, Kristen Dowda. And Kristen was going on and on about how wonderful she thought Sarah was, you know, as a 16 year old girl and what a great job, you know, Jamie had done, you know, with her. And Jamie actually tells Kristen Douda that Sarah's not what she seems to be, not what she appears to be to everybody else. He actually tells his favorite niece, you don't see what I see. You don't live in the home with her. So fast forward to this taking place. Kristen Douda, the niece, remembers that. Yeah. So police are looking over the crime scene. They've got the investigators trying to figure out what could have possibly happened.
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B
Yeah.
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C
And now we've got Kristen Dada saying, hey, she. That Sarah Grace Patrick might not be the person she appears to be.
- [20:59]
B
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I got to tell you, I've seen. I don't know if you had an opportunity, Dave. I was on Court TV with Vinnie Politan. I don't know how long ago. It was maybe a month or so ago because they were. They knew that this case was coming up. And Vinnie brought me on to talk about it. I got to see the images of the house and exterior images and they may have had a floor plan too.
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C
What did you think of it when you saw the exterior?
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B
Well, it's neat, it's not filthy or anything like that. It looks like it may have had an add on in the backside. It's kind of, it's typical of a rural home, a little home. This is no mansion. I can't imagine that this thing is any larger than maybe 1800 square feet perhaps. And so you've got mom, dad, you've got a 16 year old and you've got at the time a five year old, you know, living in this house. I don't know about you, but you know, if you hear things, you know, when you live in proximity to one another, there's nothing that's private in any of these environments. And what, what has always fascinate, I say always, like it's gone on for a long, long time. This is, you know, from 2025. But what really caught my ear, and no pun intended here was the fact that this young lady says that she didn't hear any gunshots during the night. And Dave, this is you're talking about from the way we have heard it, hell is being unleashed in this room.
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C
Right?
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B
Okay. And you know, my first thought was, okay, well if she's not involved with it, which they have accused her of being involved in it, did someone come in with a suppressed weapon? And who, who would target a middle aged couple, including a man that is, as we've already established, is infirm to the point where he has to walk around with this LVAD on where he will die if he does not have this thing on.
- [23:21]
C
So he presents no real threat.
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B
I can't, I can't imagine. I, you know, I don't know, I didn't know the man personally.
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C
Right.
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B
I never was face to face with him, to have, you know, conversation with him generally with, if you require an lvad, there's a bit of fatigue, you know, that kind of comes about as you can imagine, if the thing is, is not sufficient to the task. And also if there's any other kind of external, you know, medical conditions that you might have that, you know, that, that it gets more and more complicated. So the point is, is that I cannot see this guy being a threat. But it sounds, you know, because they keep using the term multiple gunshot wounds. And again me, I'm thinking, well, this automatically goes to, this is a semi automatic weapon that has been used in this particular case. If they are both in the bedroom, which it sounds like they are, I don't really know and they haven't released this information. When we think about what's referred to as positionality, you know that can refer to two separate things in forensics. Position. If you've got multiple victims, positionality is relationship between two victims. And I'm talking about physical, in a physical sense when you're observing the crime scene. And then you can have positionality relative to the perpetrator, the alleged perpetrator, as the shooter, you know what was their position relative to the victim or the intended targets. So you're in a confined space, you've got this weapon that's going off multiple times. And for those of you that have never out there, that have never heard the report of, let's just pick out a standard caliber, a 9 millimeter weapon that goes off in a small confined space. If you ever get a chance to go to an indoor firing range and you're on the shooting line with people, I wouldn't recommend this. But if you're in there and you don't have on your hearing protection, you get a sense of what it's like inside of an environment that's closed in when a weapon goes off. Just think about being in a tiny house and a weapon goes off multiple times. You're talking about with a non suppressed weapon, you're talking about repeated thunderclaps that would come in really tight succession to one another. It is enough to wake anybody up. What's fascinating is that when she gave statement, Sarah Grace Patrick, she stated that she did not hear gunshots. And that brings me to the five year old. Did the five year old hear gunshots? And we don't know. We know that this child has been interviewed and it's really amazing what you can glean from a 5 year old. I mean they don't hold back most of the time if they know something, they're going to say something. Most of the time you have the right person in there conducting the interview with them and they'll tell you God's honest truth about what. Gee, I woke up and I found mommy and daddy deceased. Or yeah, I heard something scary last night. You heard something scary last night? Let's talk about that. What was so scary about it? And then I was so afraid I didn't get back up out of the. I didn't get out of the bed, I just stayed in bed. So we don't really know what that dynamic is like at this point in time. Another interesting piece to this because, Dave, you know, there's no signs of forced entry at this scene. No signs of forced entry at the scene. You've got this door that is unsecured. I think Sarah Patrick's biological father took a picture of the door, if I'm not mistaken, or someone in her camp took a picture of the door and posted it out there. And when you see it, you can't look at a picture and say, well, mechanically, I can state that this was forced entry, or this is the condition of the door, which is an interesting thing in forensics we have to do. And just let me break this down for you. When you show up at a scene, you always have to understand that people's normal way of living is not necessarily your normal way of living. Okay? So I've been to. I've been to scenes. I've been to scenes, Dave, where I would walk in and I would say, this place is a pigsty. It's horrible. I can't tell the difference. Was there actually a struggle in here, or is this the normal way that they're living? And I'm not saying that that was the condition of the interior of their house. What I'm saying is this lock in particular, or this door, if it is compromised in some way, maybe it's been like that for a long, long time. I don't know. Did somebody jimmy the lock in some way? Did somebody arrange it so that they could get access to it? How easy is it to defeat this lock? Did they commonly leave it locked or did they commonly leave it open? What's the old adage about. Yeah, well, I remember growing up in a place where we always kept the doors unlocked, you know, so it's hard to say, you know, now what may have been the status of that door. But there's a lot of evidence at the scene in regards to the door. Also, the idea of going back into the bedroom and the. They're talking about multiple gunshot wounds. So that means we've got multiple casings. There's going to be casings everywhere at the scene. And their distribution doesn't really play into this because you can't predict where casing is going to bounce. What's going to be interesting is to try to understand the trajectory of the rounds. But the casings. The casings can, in fact, give you an indication of, obviously, the caliber of the weapon. The projectiles can give you a ballistic fingerprint about the weapon. But here's the problem at this point, there ain't no weapon, Dave. One of the more Troubling, as if, if there's not a lot already. One of the more troubling aspects to this case is that they allegedly have not found a weapon. And my thought was this ought to be easy. You know, when I first heard about the case and before I knew that bit, my thought was, well, this is a 16 year old, right? They're accusing her, they're saying she did it. How's a 16 year old get access to a semiautomatic handgun? Now, I know it happens all over the place, but that's a big reveal. It's not like a 16 year old is going to walk into a gun store and say, yeah, I want that pink 9 millimeter that you have there, you know, because those do exist. I've also seen them in, in turquoise. You can get turquoise 9 millimeter in the southwest.
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C
Come on, that's a big deal, man.
- [31:10]
B
There you go. But you know, that's a big piece that. Wouldn't you agree, Dave? It's like, how do you get access to this? And so I'm, I'm always thinking, you know, is it a familial connection? Did the family keep guns inside the house? My understanding is that as much as I hate to say this, I think dad was convicted felon. I don't think he could have weapons. Is that correct, Dave?
- [31:36]
C
Yeah. And that's when I was talking earlier about our past, you know, and yeah, many of us make decisions as we grow up that don't necessarily reflect the person we are now, but cause us problems. It happens. And so I go to the, I go to this end of it. We're in an area in the southeastern part of the United States of America where having guns is not that big of a deal.
- [32:07]
B
No.
- [32:07]
C
And almost all of us have guns. And, but we have areas, I mean, we, we live in a rural environment. Our most congested area. For people who live in Chicago, New York, Louisiana, you know, our, our most congested area is your most rural area. Okay. Yeah, it's really a different lifestyle. So guns to me are just different that were raised around them. Now, I have a question for you though, Joe, and a couple of them, because during the holidays you've been on Fox News and you have been quoted as saying, talking about the world of digital forensics and how it plays into solving crimes. And there are a couple things here about this case that I'm hoping you can delve into for me because Sarah Grace Patrick, 16 years old at the time of this, now 17, spends a lot of time on social media specifically TikTok. And she has posted a lot of information beyond that. We also have a real red flag from her eulogy in the days after the murders took place. And there's something else I have to ask you, though. We'll come to those. All right. At the crime scene, you got two dead bodies in a bed. So the assumption I make is that they were asleep when they were shot. I'm making that assumption only because they said they being law enforcement, said they were found in the bed. We know that Jamie Brock is mechanically tied to the LVAD for his heart. So if somebody were to come in and kill them, we know that it was sometime between the time the little girl went to bed that night before and the time she wakes up the next morning. Tom is a 5 year old. Who found them.
- [34:01]
B
Yep.
- [34:02]
C
In that area here. And they were cold to the touch.
- [34:06]
B
Yes.
- [34:06]
C
According to Sarah Grace Patrick on the 911 call.
- [34:11]
B
All right.
- [34:11]
C
They're found in bed, shot to death. You mentioned trying to find the angle of bullets to the trajectory of the bullets and figuring this out. But Joe, if somebody's laying in bed on their side.
- [34:27]
B
Yeah.
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C
And they are shot, causing their body to move. So I'm laying on my right hand side, left towards the ceiling, and I get shot in the chest and it rolls me over and I get shot again and now it hits me in the chest. You know, how are you going to determine a. Which one came first and the trajectory? Where was the shooter standing?
- [34:56]
B
Oh, wow. Okay. That's an. I didn't see that coming. That's an excellent question. Trajectory itself is. Well, first off, let's go to order. You can't. You can't tell order. There's no way. You can't tell order with gunshot wounds. With stab wounds. You just can't. I mean, I think that people think that we can, but we, we really can't.
- [35:22]
C
We're fascinated with that, too.
- [35:24]
B
Yeah, we really are. Because people want to know, you know, particularly if you got multiple gunshot wounds. And you've got. Because in an autopsy report, when you read the autopsy report, they'll lay it out pretty succinctly. Not in the. In the listing, like the actual granular listing of the gunshot wounds. But they'll go. If you look at the cause of death, they will state in a cause of death most of the time, depending upon how thorough the forensic pathologist is, which gunshot wound is actually the coup de grace.
- [35:54]
C
Okay.
- [35:55]
B
The fatal one. You know. Now trajectory, that's interesting because it's rather. It's Very dynamic. Not as dynamic in a bed as it is. Say, for instance, out on the street, if somebody's kind of dancing and you've got somebody walking around doing what's called slicing the pie, which is where you're firing and you're having to. It's not really slicing the pie, but you're. You're having to adjust because people don't stay static most of if they see a weapon, they're going to duck and all that stuff. And. And how much of a reaction would there have been with them? Because I've seen people that take the first shot and they don't move from that position, they'll get shot in the chest, they'll get shot in the head, and then subsequent, you know, rounds are fired into their body. What's really interesting is you can actually kind of see movement of a body if you've got, like, when you put the trajectory rods through the gunshot wounds, you can see. I've seen cases where we've used rods where people look like porcupines, you know, where literally you've got multiple rods sticking out of the body. And you look at this and you think, oh, my Lord, this is really intensely dynamic. You know, person's moving about or the perpetrator is moving about. The other interesting thing, too, is the height ratio. Okay.
- [37:24]
C
Yeah.
- [37:24]
B
You know, when you begin to think, if you've got some towering dude that walks in, okay, you've got some big burly guy that's, you know, six, six, two. All right. And he's holding a weapon and he fires into somebody that's lying in front of him, that that relationship is completely different than a 16 year. And forgive me, I don't know her height. Let's just say she's five, four. You know, that that kind of skews. Skews from what you would think with a grown man. Okay, so I'd like to know when the gbi, And I think that if. If you were asking me who handled it at the scene, I'd say the GBI responded out there, probably the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and their Crime Scene Reconstructionist came out there. And they would have painstakingly gone through that case with a fine tooth comb, pulling trajectories, taking a look at the position of the bodies. These bodies probably would not have been removed from the scene real quickly. Because when they see this, Dave, I can tell you, the investigators, when they see this, they're going to think. They're going to think this is so far out of bounds that we really got to take our time with this. This is an execution style event. And they're also, they're knowing they're going to have to watch their P's and Q's with this. I would think that the level of intensity out there to collect and not, not. We have to understand that when you've got two people dead, it's not one case. If you look at it from the perspective of lives being taken, you've got two separate cases here. Now it's the same event, but you've got two separate cases. You know, you've got a count here and you've got a count here. And so. And then you compile all this and you have to worry. It gets really, really complex. The more bodies you add on to this thing, the more complex. That's why, you know, if we have like a mass shooting event, okay, people think that, well, you got a mass shooting, you just walk in, use. No, for every dead body that you have, that's an individual count. And you have to. Well, you have to give them their due. You know, everybody's equal under the law. Right.
- [39:42]
C
I remember you explaining that to me and I was shocked at the amount of work. And I'm not diminishing anything about the human beings associated with a mass fatality, but. Right, remember you were talking about one in Birmingham and you were talking about the number of casualties and the number of cases and the number of. Because you've got to know, where did this person die, when did they die, how did they die? And it's not just that one, but it's everybody else. And in this case, we do have cases. Two people dead in the bed. But we don't know. We don't have enough information yet. We don't, you and I.
- [40:15]
B
Well, it would seem, Dave, that according to what you had said earlier, we do have some information or we have some insight into what was going on with Sarah Grace Patrick, relative to her electronics man.
- [40:28]
C
You know, it's interesting that in the time after. Now, remember, this happened in February and between the time of the double homicide and the time that Sarah Grace Patrick was arrested. It was months, Joe. It wasn't days, months. And it was an unsolved double homicide. And Sarah Grace Patrick. Well, first things first. At the funeral service, the celebration of life or whatever you want to call it, Sarah Grace Patrick delivered a very long eulogy. And this is not a videotaped presentation like many are these days. But I did see it because somebody at the funeral actually got a video on their cell phone of Sarah Grace Patrick's eulogy. And I'm going to tell you what man. Watching it multiple times and then looking at the reaction of family members, this eulogy is a huge red flag. Joe, you know I mentioned Kristen Douda earlier, the niece of Jamie, she sat in the front row during the service and says that even though Sarah Grace Patrick sounds like she's crying, during the course of this eulogy, very long eulogy, there are no tears. Sounds like, it sounds like she's crying but there are no tears. And then, then Joseph Scott Morgan at the end, she says I'm sorry. Now many people saw that as an admission that she was sorry. She says I'm sorry. Okay. Now I, I don't know, there could be so many things that that would mean. Yeah, but here, here we have is, this is in the days following the murders. Now we're talking about as the days go by, there is no arrest and Sarah Grace Patrick takes a tick tock because, well, there's no attention being placed on this double homicide. And she's reaching out to people online, she's reaching out to crime people, people who do reporting on TikTok and what have you, trying to get attention. She's seeking attention. Joseph Scott Morgan, the now 17 year old Sarah Grace Patrick doesn't want this case to go away. She needs the attention. And that is another red flag for many people.
- [42:55]
B
Yeah, it all depends on, off into the world of attorneys. It all depends on how you frame attention.
- [43:02]
C
Yeah.
- [43:03]
B
And I can tell you in this trial this is going to be a big issue here. I can see it coming, you know, 50 miles away. They're going to look at this and they're going to want to know, well, she's being the good daughter here, you know, come and look at my mom and my stepdad's double homicide. That's not getting attention. Or she can, as I have seen, she can get on social media with a mascara rolling down her face.
- [43:34]
C
Right.
- [43:34]
B
Which I never understand. That's a very personal thing. Why do people do that? I don't, I've never understood that. It's, it's your world, you do what you got to do. But this kind of open weeping, purging and there's imagery of her doing that. Well, let's just say you're trying to set something up to make it appear in a particular way. And nowadays that's easy to do on social media. I could go stand in front of Evander Holfield's former home over in, over in Georgia, you know, which is massive and I could say, yeah, this is my crib. You know, it's like, right? No, it ain't. I'm just out here with a camera, you know, and how much more so when you get into the detail about this and this. This weird thing that's going on where she's reaching out to people. So one of the questions I think at trial is going to be, well, what does this mean? I don't know, but I do know this. I know that social media and electronic media are going to play a major role in this. Relative to what she did at any particular time, was she having contact with anybody else? And let me tell you, I didn't address this. I completely forgot. You know what else is going to play a role in this that is electronic is that LVAD machine.
- [45:08]
C
Oh, wow.
- [45:10]
B
And I think the reason is, is that she had claimed at one point in time she heard his alarm going off multiple times through the night, which I think this alarm is really loud.
- [45:22]
C
Wow.
- [45:23]
B
And if this thing is monitoring his heart and he's hooked up to it, Dave, they're. There's going to be an electronic footprint as to when his heart stopped beating. Let that sink in just for a second. You talk about a silent witness to this thing. That's going to be interesting, because in the case, we might actually, I guess, the forensic pathologist could testify, but wouldn't it be cool if they brought in a cardiologist to talk about this machine? And this is a science geek coming out of me. All right, Know that you had a cardiologist come, you know, come and talk about, you know, how does an LVAD work? And what can we actually tell? Can you tell by using this device? Can you tell when heart stoppage occurs? You know, when they went into a critical mode? Oh, here, here's the thing, Dave. Can you tell Was death sudden by virtue of the heart rhythm? Can you see where the heart begins to kind of taper off here and he finally slips off and succumbs? Isn't that fascinating when you think about that? Not to mention any kind of surveillance video that they have around, which they have alluded to. And I've heard investigators, or at least the press releases that have come out, they're using the term mountains of day, mountains of digital data. But we've come into information just this morning. There's a. What's this thing called a neuropsychiatric or neuropsychology report?
- [47:04]
C
It's a forensic neuropsychologist report. And this was part of the discussion A couple of weeks ago in court, when they were determining, are we set to go for trial on January 5? And prosecution and defense attorney said, yes, except we are waiting on this report from Dr. Robert Schaefer. Dr. Robert Schaefer is a forensic neuropsychologist, and they were waiting on his report on. He evaluated Sarah Grace Patrick back in August. And they were waiting on this report, determined to determine whether they could move forward. Joe. And what they found out is the contents have not been disclosed. We don't know what Dr. Schaefer came up with. We have no clue on that. But what we do know is that a couple of weeks ago, trial set for January 5th, going forward, beginning. And then we know that on the morning of Monday, January 5, the report was then apparently turned over to prosecution and defense at some point. And when they got to court On Monday the 5th, they all said, nope, we cannot move forward.
- [48:15]
B
Wow.
- [48:15]
C
And the judge, this judge who had, you know, really encouraged this fast timeline.
- [48:22]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [48:23]
C
Sat back and said, okay, we're going to kick the trial to August.
- [48:29]
B
Holy smokes, Joe.
- [48:30]
C
That's a long time. What could this report possibly say that requires eight months?
- [48:39]
B
Well, it's gonna, it's gonna mean. It's not gonna mean that much to. Well, if this guy's doing the report, if this guy's doing the assessment, he works for the state, I would assume. Okay.
- [48:52]
C
Okay.
- [48:53]
B
The state will have requested this. So he's gonna be a state witness. What? Because a lot of the stuff that, when you get into the area of forensic psychology, a lot of this stuff is highly subjective, Dave. I know people take exception to that. Okay. But that's just reality. It's not like you're looking at tox results. Okay.
- [49:14]
C
Right.
- [49:14]
B
So the defense is going to have to acquire their own expert to review this. And they may, they may say, okay, well, we want to bring on our own expert to do their examination. So once that happens, then that person will have to generate a report and guess where that has to go to. To. That has to go to the prosecution. So you've got, you know, for every. For everything that that is done, there's a potential for, you know, the other side to do it as well. So I think going forward, there'll be more information that's going to come out, more information that will be released. I think that I'm interested, obviously, in all of the digital data. I'm interested in this LVAD machine. Yeah, I never thought I'd. I hear myself saying that in a, in a gunfire related case. I'm very interested in the ballistics here, Dave. I want to know if it's the same weapon. I want to know more about the trajectory. I want to know if they found, I want to know if they found any gunshot residue anywhere in that house. How, how thoroughly was it examined and were there any efforts to clean up around the house in any way whatsoever. I want to know how much of her clothing they took out of that house. You know, when they did the initial run through what was removed from the house, what did they collect and how much of that stuff has, has, you know, gone through the ringer. Because, and I find it fascinating, Dave, that, you know, because most of the time the GBI is sufficient to the task. It's all self contained. They've got their own state crime lab and all this. But the fact that the FBI is involved in this case is interesting. And I wonder if it's. What kind of evidence are they dealing with? Is this, are they there solely for electronic evidence or is it something more? I don't know. Time will tell. And look, I'm not saying the case is actually going to go forward in August because this kind of came out of left field for us. Dave and I started out to tape this today because the trial was about to step off, but I got to tell you, if they pushed it out to August, you never know with these things as we see every single day. Things get pushed all the time in courts, but this is a gigantic mystery at this point in time. I think you've got people that are saying that she had nothing to do with this. Got a whole group of people out there that are supporting her, even wearing T shirts that say that Sarah Grace Patrick is innocent. So we'll see how this develops over the next few months. Until then, we'll keep you posted, we'll let you know what we hear and we'll give you our insight. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body Bags.
- [52:25]
A
This is an I Heart podcast.
- [52:27]
B
Guaranteed human.