Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan – "From The Black Dahlia to Ed Gein, The Five of Dismemberment"

Podcast: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
Episode Date: January 4, 2026

Overview of the Episode

In this gripping episode, Joseph Scott Morgan (forensic death investigator) and co-host Dave delve deep into the disturbing world of dismemberment as it appears in notorious true crime cases. Using historical cases like The Black Dahlia and referencing infamous murderers such as Ed Gein, they introduce and explain the five main types of dismemberment found in forensic investigations — "defensive," "aggressive," "offensive," and more. The discussion bridges criminal psychology, forensic details, and cultural reactions to true crime, making for a discussion that is raw, analytical, and at times, chilling.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Black Dahlia Case as Iconic Dismemberment

Timestamps: 00:05 – 17:12

• Media Sensation & Crime Scene Horrors

  • The Black Dahlia (Elizabeth Short) murder (1947) is used as a benchmark case for dismemberment due to its shocking display and media frenzy.
  • Dave emphasizes media coverage:

    "There are always cases...that caught attention because of the B-roll video and physical description. No matter what you say, a body...in grass for all to see is a shocking thing." (04:26)

  • Joseph describes the surgical precision with which Short was bisected, suggesting substantial knowledge and "privacy and most important, time." (08:37)

• Crime Scene Details

  • Morgan details the post-mortem arrangement:

    "Her bowels were actually neatly tucked beneath her body as she was laid out. The body is actually offset, which is really weird." (09:49)

  • Discussion of the "glasgow smile" cut into her face, and musings about its possible influence on movies (The Dark Knight, 10:06).

• Speculation over Perpetrator’s Identity

  • Dave brings up the recurring theory about the killer being a surgeon, possibly the father of a book author (12:36).
  • Morgan expresses skepticism about armchair sleuths linking the Black Dahlia with Zodiac, noting that many such amateur theories lack real proof.

    "It just seems so mercenary for me...because my daddy did it." (14:03)

• No Pattern or Copycats

  • Both note that, despite the case's infamy, "the Dahlia is a one-off" with no other similar cases in that era/region (16:24).
  • Emphasis on forensic indicators of skill and the psychology of body presentation.

2. The Five Types of Dismemberment Introduced

Timestamps: 17:12 – 48:19

Joseph Scott Morgan transitions into a structured breakdown of dismemberment types observed in his forensic career:

A. Defensive Dismemberment

Example Case: Oklahoma (four men killed/dismembered for body disposal)
Timestamps: 17:12 – 29:58

• Purpose is practical: to make a body manageable and difficult to identify/discover.
• Morgan explains:

  "You have to break this body down into elements just to make it manageable...particularly nasty business." (18:35)

• The Oklahoma case: Perpetrator kills four men he suspected of theft, uses his scrap yard and tools for dismemberment, and attempts to scatter pieces in a river (21:40).
• Forensics challenge: Identifying and reconstructing bodies made difficult when multiple, similarly built victims are involved.

B. Aggressive Dismemberment

Example Cases: Chandler Halderson (Wisconsin), Maryland Matricide
Timestamps: 29:58 – 36:27

• Motivation is emotion-driven, often rooted in rage, frustration, or shame.
• In the Halderson case, a son murders and frantically disposes of his parents after his lies are exposed:

  "He had been lying for so long and...the jig was up, now he's left with, well, if I kill them, I'll get all their stuff." (30:53-Dave)

• Contrast is made between organized psychopaths versus disorganized, frenzied killers:

  "He's kind of frenzied...can you imagine being that? Well, I don't think you can. Hopefully you can't, but hopefully neither can I." (31:06)

• Maryland case: Daughter uses a chainsaw to dismember her grandmother, tries to "render her down" on a backyard grill (34:13), underlining the brutality and lack of planning in such cases.

C. Offensive Dismemberment

Example Cases: Gainesville Ripper, Ingrid Lynn (Seattle), Taylor Schabusiness
Timestamps: 36:27 – 47:15

• Here, the act is sexually motivated: the dismemberment itself is the end goal/aspect of gratification.
• Noted for sadism and a taste for domination, often with extensive mutilation.
• Ingrid Lynn: After a first date, her remains were disposed across multiple trash bins. Key backtracking in the investigation thanks to her mother's actions and forensics discovered a limb saw was used in the bathroom (42:19).
• Taylor Schabusiness Case:
  • After killing Shad Thyron, Schabusiness continued sexual acts with the corpse.

    "She continued to have sex with his dead body...I just can't think of a sane person who would do that." (46:38 – Dave)

• Morgan’s nuanced take:

  "That's why I think that she's touched by sadism here. Not Satanism. Sadism. She has this desire, I think, to inflict pain, and I think through the pain and sexual dominance she exerted over this guy...that came out as the end game." (47:15)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Joseph Scott Morgan, on Black Dahlia’s surgical dismemberment:

  “The margins, like, where the dissection actually took place...not like somebody had done this in a fever. This was very specific. All right. And this goes to someone that...had a certain level of comfort and probably privacy and most important, time.” (08:39)

• Dave, on encountering Elizabeth Short’s body:

  “No matter what you say, a body that is dismembered and is sitting in grass for all to see is a shocking thing, no matter who you are or where you are.” (06:41)

• Joseph, on motivations behind dismemberment:

  “I hate the ‘why’ question, but dismemberment is one of those things where you’ll get that a lot. Why, why, why would—? And I think that it’s one of these things that people cannot take the measure of...because it’s so grotesque and over the top.” (17:12)

• Dave, on the Oklahoma case:

  “If you just find body parts floating in a river, you know, that’s a, that's a tough sell.” (26:18)

• Joseph, on typologies:

  “A psychopath could actually sit there and think about [dismemberment] in a very ordered manner if they're going to do this. This is, you know, part A, part B, part C. That’s not what he did.” (32:30)

• On discovering body parts by accident:

  “When you go to pull [the trash bin] back in, you don’t expect it to still be heavy...he’s staring down at a foot.” (40:03)

• Morgan, on sadistic murderers:

  “I think she perfectly knew exactly what she was doing the entire time, because it wasn’t, ‘Oops, I messed up.’ It was, you know, ...it wasn’t any of that. No, it wasn’t.” (47:15)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:05 – Joseph introduces theme: compartmentalizing knowledge and body parts; The Black Dahlia case noted for dismemberment.
• 04:26-10:06 – Intense discussion of Black Dahlia’s crime scene, media attention, and theory speculation.
• 12:11 – Zodiac/Black Dahlia linkage theories debunked; skepticism about evidence.
• 17:12 – Introduction of five types of dismemberment.
• 20:39-29:58 – Oklahoma river case (defensive dismemberment).
• 29:58-36:27 – Chandler Halderson & aggressive dismemberment cases.
• 36:27-47:15 – Offensive dismemberment, sexual sadism, details of heartbreaking cases (Ingrid Lynn, Taylor Schabusiness).
• 48:19 – Episode wraps, promising more on this subject.

Episode Tone & Style

The episode is analytic, unsparing in its forensic detail, but also empathetic to the human tragedy and psychological disturbance involved. Both Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave maintain a conversational, at times darkly informal tone that grounds the technical autopsy and criminal psychology in real-world horror.

Summary prepared for listeners and true crime enthusiasts seeking a comprehensive, illuminating guide to this episode of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The focus is on content-rich, forensic and narrative exploration of dismemberment in some of America’s most disturbing homicide cases.