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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Noah Presgrove Shocker! Attorney Blames Noah!
00:46:49
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D
Joseph Scott Morgan there's no other feeling in the world like being young and being with your friends. And I'm talking about that group of friends that you hang out with. That group of friends like you get excited if you're going to see them, you're gonna spend a protracted period of time together. And look, I gotta confess. Partying, all right? And look, man, there's nothing wrong with partying, particularly when you're young, because I can tell you when you get old, you ain't gonna do it. You're gonna be in bed by eight. But there was a young man who did go and hang out with friends to enjoy, I don't know, a Long weekend over a Labor Day. He went into it probably full of excitement, enthusiastic about seeing his buddies passing a bottle around, riding on ATV out in the country where the only illumination is starlight. The only problem is, is at the end of that weekend, after all the partying had been done, he had wound up dead on the side of a road with more trauma than anyone can possibly imagine. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body bags brother Dave. We have got an update. We've got an update today relative to. Yeah, it is. No Pressgrove. I did. Look, you know, it's one of these things that kind of, you know, we cover these cases and I'd probably say that other people have the same. And this. God, this is going to sound so bad, and I mean no disrespect, but such a volume of data comes into you and I on a regular basis. These cases that otherwise would just pound you in the face like a sledgehammer. Yeah. Because other stuff trumps that data along the way. These cases are forgotten. And, Dave, no pressure. Presco's case is the stuff of horror movies. I mean, it is an absolute terror show.
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A
It is. It's every parent's worst nightmare for your young adult. You know, it's one of those things. When our kids are young, before they start driving, we worry about them, their friends, who they're playing with, who they're hanging out with. Once they start driving, though, it becomes a different kind of fear, a different kind of concern that you have for your children when they're out after they graduate school, from high school. There's another level. It's a different kind of worry now because, you know, they're going to do things that young adults do. You mentioned partying. Look, I did it. I encouraged my children when they became young adults to be wise.
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D
I.
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A
My thing with my kids is I've already done it. You guys don't have to. I'll tell you what the end result of all of it is. You end up in handcuffs in jail wondering, where, you know, where is my shirt? And, you know.
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D
Well, you know, Dave, the problem is, is that most kids don't believe us. And they're going to want their own empirical proof of this, this speculation. You know, they see the speculation. They don't see it because none of them ever imagine us as young and partying. All right? So they have to go out and you sit there and you're shaking your head. It's like, I wouldn't do that if I was you. I've already told you but, but, you know, it's part of, it's part of the carelessness of youth. I think a lot of that. There's growth that comes out of it. I think there's also a lesson to be learned about what to do and what not to do. Many times when you experience that in.
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A
The Noah Pressgrove story. Yeah, we actually have both what to do and what not to do. And the reason we're doing this is because there has been some movement. You know, back in June, a lawsuit was filed by the family of Noah Presgrove. It was filed without a lot of fanfare, mainly because there, you mentioned it right at the beginning, where we're hit with so many different stories. Unless there's something that really moves that rock up the hill, it's not going to gain the traction it needs. But after it was filed, you and I did an update, and now we've got an app. We actually have an update to go along with that lawsuit. But before we do that, Joe, you and I took a really good look at the injuries. Actually. No, you took a really good look at them. I was so shocked at what we found out when, you know, this story came to us from one of y', all, a listener of the show who actually reached out and said, hey, have you guys covered this yet? And we're like, no, let me find out more.
- [07:22]
D
And yeah, that's. Oh, my goodness. I, I just remembered that that did come to us this way. Yeah, sure did.
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A
And the thing is, it was. It goes back to, again, out of a hundred stories that deserve coverage to get it. And, and there is no rhyme or reason to it. There really isn't. And this is one of those stories that I think the shock value of the. What this young man had to have endured is not easily explained as saying he was walking down the road and it was a hit and run, because that's the explanation. We've heard of a possible way that he could have ended up dead in this particular way. But, Joe, I looked at this list of injuries and there are certain things that happened to Noah Presgrove and his body that even after looking down this list and reading reports and everything else, I still cannot for the life of me think of any way this could happen other than what appears to me a gang beating. Teaching somebody a lesson.
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D
Yeah. And you know, this list. Okay, let me, let me, let me kind of add a caveat here with, with motor vehicle. And that's what has been alleged. Okay. Along that it was a motor vehicle related event, perhaps struck by A vehicle. We know that they're in the story woven throughout. There is an atv, an all terrain, all terrain vehicle that has been wrecked. Okay. But I think the main thing that was put forward is that you've got a young man that's found deceased adjacent or on the roadway, and he has got a laundry list of injuries that you would think might be related to a motor vehicle. Vehicle accident. Dave. But the problem is, is that the motor vehicle accident that he would have been involved in to generate this kind of trauma, I think would have been he would be seated in a, in the cabin of a car and pushed off a three story building and impacted nose, dived into the. And even that you're still not going to get some of this stuff. Really?
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A
That's. Yeah, I hadn't thought about it that way. I've just tried to look at it from. Okay. If you were hit by a car, we know certain things that happen.
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D
Yeah.
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A
Because it does happen. People do get hit by a car.
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D
Oh yeah. All the time. Yeah.
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A
Very rarely do you get hit and then rolled under, hitting, going under all four tires. Usually you bounce off a little bit, you know.
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D
Well, you do, but we do. But there's a category for what's referred to as rollover injuries. And you know, the circumstances actually, Dave, have to be just right.
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A
Yeah.
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D
For that to happen. First off, many times with a. Okay, let's just say we have a pedestrian. It's called pedestrian versus vehicle.
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A
Okay.
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D
Let's just say we do have a pedestrian and you, you've got a vehicle operator. There's so many things that come into play first off, the height of the, of the vehicle, the total wheelbase of the vehicle, how, you know, kind of wide the vehicle is from tire to tire, the speed, reaction time on the part of the driver. I guess you could also factor in there an awareness or lack of awareness on the part of maybe the victim. Many times if you have a braking event where you've got a pedestrian that's in the roadway, you'll see a response on the part of a driver that has awareness that when they press on the brakes first off, you've got rapid deceleration, but also the nose of the vehicle will slightly drop down. Okay. And when that nose of the vehicle drops down, if it strikes someone in the legs or in the thigh, the hip, it can deflect them. I've had these cases where people go over the top of the car into the windshield. I actually. Dave, I actually had a case one time where a guy came through a windshield and was decapitated and the head wound up in the seat of the vehicle adjacent to the operator of the vehicle. And the guy that this happened to that was. I just had this memory. This was actually on I tend down in New Orleans. The guy that was driving the vehicle, he was headed to the New Orleans airport, and he was cabbie, and he didn't speak very good, very good English. He came. The guy came through his windshield. It decapitated him. And the guy's head, if I remember correctly, either wound up in the cabbie's lap or in the seat adjacent to him. The. In the torso was still in the vehicle, kind of hanging off to the side when we got there. It was absolutely horrific. You. But it's almost unpredictable as to what's going to happen with a body when they're struck by a vehicle. But with Noah's. Noah's injuries, Dave, they're. I was looking at the list, by the way, y'. All. Dave does this incredible job of. Of backing me up, and I truly need a lot of backing up the list. Dave. I did not remember, yeah, I did not remember how extensive and exhaustive this list of insults were to Noah's body until they were represented to me again.
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A
Well, you had time, because we've actually had time now that we've heard a number of different stories, and some of them have kind of washed, whitewashed it a little bit, you know, as to what may have happened to Noah Presgrove. But when you get right down to it, this is what happened to his body. This is. This is when he was found. Okay. All of this was done when he was found just before 6am after a weekend of partying with friends. All right? He has a conversation argument. 3:15, two hours later, two and a half hours later. This is the condition of his body. Joe found on the road about a mile and a half, two miles from the house where they've been partying.
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D
Yeah. And this is. I'm not saying that you can see the end of the world from. From this locale, but it's. It's out. You got to pump in sunshine out here. I mean, it's Terrell, Oklahoma. It's case folks aren't aware of it. It's not too far away as a crow flies, actually, from. From the Dallas area. And, you know, it's all relative in Texas and Oklahoma because things are so big out there, but it literally sits right on the Oklahoma, Oklahoma, Texas border. And it's. It's kind of northwest of Dallas. And let's face it, I mean, it's a, it's an agricultural area. You know, you're going to have a lot of farmers around there and that sort of thing. You're going to have a lot of, a lot of wide open spaces for kids, particularly, you know, young teenagers. I mean older teenagers and young adults that can rip and roaring out there and they can have all the fun they want. But I gotta tell you, when I drop this list on you guys, I don't know, but I predict, just like me, you're gonna be shocked.
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- [18:11]
D
Dave, these, these injuries that, that Noah Presco sustained are not merely limited to his head. We've got injuries that, that range from literally the soles of his feet to the top of his head. Let that sink in just for a second. Now, that's one of the reasons I was previously talking about, and just indulge me for just a second. But when people are struck by a motor vehicle, let's just say pedestrian struck by motor vehicle, and they're upright, we look for things called bumper marks on the body. And that means that's the point of impact if you're struck in the leg or the hip. And it generally, most of the time, it's very definitive. You'll see a contusion because obviously when, when they're alive, you're going to bruise, right? And then the body is pitched over to one side or the body is rolled over and the vehicle run continues on down the road. Dave, in a case like this, and when we consider the extent, the extent of the injuries, I would not be as inclined to believe that this is a standard rollover. I'm not saying he wasn't rolled over. I guess the question I would have to ask is how many damn times was he rolled over? All right, it's not like you're going to get this in one fail swoop, because, Dave, we've got, we've got ribs, we've got cervical vertebra, we've got skull, we've got tissue being peeled away with this young man. And if you'll indulge me, I'll, I'll go ahead and run this down if, you know, and we can. I just want everyone to kind of understand, you know, what we're, what we're talking about, you know, when, when his remains were finally, finally come across. And here we go. We, we've got. So Noah had 10 broken ribs. He's got a fractured skull, neck, spine fractures, internal bleeding. So I mentioned the, the damaged skull. He's got internally, he's got brain, brain hemorrhage. And Dave, there's something that's kind of, kind of interesting here. When they did the examination and they kind of dissected out, you know, through his brain and down his spinal cavity, they actually Found air and inside of, of these areas. And which does that tell you? Well, it tells me that these bones were fractured so extensively that they, they were open. They were open to the environment. Do you realize how hard it is to crack open a. I mean, skulls are hard to crack open. Do you realize how difficult it is to crack open a cervical vertebra and not just one? Hang on, let me refer back to my notes. I feel like I'm at trial now. We've got C1, which is actually referred to as your atlas. If you'll, if you'll imagine the image of, of the Titan. I think he was a titan, the Greek Titan atlas holding up the earth on his shoulders. That's where the term C1 or the atlas vertebra comes from. It drops down to C2. C3 is apparently C3, C4 and C5 are not damaged, but then it jumps to C6 and 7. So you've got this, this area in his neck which is the, the most proximal to the base of the skull, C1 and C2. And then you're going to jump over three other vertebral bodies and landing on six, C6 and C7. And those are all fractured. So that almost. Maybe it, maybe it doesn't. But that almost smacks of two separate impacts. Okay. Just simply based on the cerebral. On the cervical vertebra, rather, the other thing too, that I remember now, making note of is that the C1, not only. Dave, is it fractured. Dave, C1 was displaced, which means it's kind of, if you think about the spine, if you're just. If you were looking at a skeleton running from north to south, okay. In the vertical plane at the very top. You know, the people. The reason people go to, go to chiropractors many times is because the spinal alignment and all that sort of thing. Well, there's a particular spinal alignment in the vertical plane. And Dave, the very top, the very top vertebra, again, atlas that supports the skull is knocked over to one side. Now, how, how does, how does that even happen, Dave? We, you know, when, when people see that, when it has been seen and documented over the years, judicial hangings. Oh, wow. Yeah, judicial hangings, where you get that kind of displacement like that and you get the fracturing, you know, the old fracturing of the neck.
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A
Right.
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D
By the way, we're still going to do an episode on judicial hangings at some point in time.
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A
We got the.
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D
I've talked about doing for a long time.
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A
I've tried to look at these injuries and think, okay, how could any one of these happen? And realize that when you start thinking about again, geography. Where was he found? He was found in a. Just off of a road.
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D
Yeah.
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A
Early morning before 6am and we know that his clothes, by the way, haven't mentioned this yet. Noah Presgrove, with all these injuries. Joseph Scott Morgan was found naked.
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D
Yeah.
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A
His clothes were sitting by him, folded.
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D
Now what, you know, what is he.
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A
Flying through the air, the clothes are coming off before the next tire rolls back over his head to peel some skin and his shirt falls off and it folds itself like a genie in the night. Pants too. And then I guess when he's back up in the air, he decides to brush his teeth, but, oh, they're all knocked out. Yeah, we didn't get to that yet. But let's get right to the rest of the. The injuries because again, you're Talking about pre 6am side of the road, country road. He's got these injuries. 10 broken ribs, serious skull, neck and spine fractures, internal bleeding, brain and organ damage, cuts and grazes all over his body. And you pointed out he had about 20 milliliters of blood pooled inside his head from a brain bleed. How much is that, Joe?
- [25:19]
D
Oh, 20, 20 milliliters. Let's see if I could do the math on that very carefully. It's more than should be there. Okay. All right. And. And so there's an indwelling hemorrhage in there. So you've got this impact that has affected these little vessels which there are many of within the brain. And we've talked about this on body bags before, before Dave, that the brain, and probably secondarily to that. I know I'll probably get gigged on this by somebody, one of our friends. But the brain and the liver are two of the most vascular organs in the body, probably the brain, hands down. But liver, liver is very vascular as well. That's why if you have liver damage, traumatic, you know, you got to get, you. You have to get that repaired. You're going to bleed out into your gut brain, same way. But the problem is with the brain is that not only are you experiencing this extensive hemorrhage and this pressure that's building up inside of there, it's not just the blood loss, it's also the pressure within the cranial vault. It's kind of squeezing down on the brain. That's why there has to be surgical intervention. But David, I got to tell you, brother, I think you could have had an entire staff of neurosurgeons Standing there adjacent to that roadway, he. He wouldn't have two hoots and hell's chance of surviving this because these injuries are so over the top with this kid. And again, I got to tell you, this smacks to me of not just a single instant, you know, because of this, the extent of the injuries we've got. And just let me if. Just bear with me because he's got, he's got road rash, which most of the time you're going to get road rash injuries from. You can be rolled over and just imagine a barrel rolling down the road. That's what happens with your body. All right? If you're caught beneath the undercarriage of the car, car rolls over you, and there are very specific injuries you look for with that to translate from the undercarriage of the car, also the tires of the car, onto the body. And then you've got the underlying RO surface or if you have been dragged by a car as well. So you have to try to understand the orientation of these. Of this road rash. Is it like linear? You know, like. Does the road rash a way to interpret this? Okay, if you're looking at a rollover type of event, if the body is log rolling down the road, that means like rolling like a log underneath a car. You're going to have these kind of parallel markings on the body. You'll have them on the upper body and lower body, however, and those will translate into road rash. If you have someone who is dragged behind a car, they're going to be very linear and they'll be in the same plane. Let's just say someone is being drugged by the bumper of a vehicle. You might have these abrasions and Dave, they're going to look striated. Striated means like streaked. And they'll generally be about as wide as your hand, all right, because it's a point of contact and you'll have multiple surfaces and the body is being drug down the road and they're all going to be linear and kind of parallel to one another. So when you're thinking about orientation of the body to the vehicle and to the road surface, what pattern were these in? Because we, we haven't necessarily heard that yet. You know, we do know that road rash exists or what the forensic pathologist is talking about. And by the way, the. The state medical examiner's office in, in Oklahoma is one of the finest in the country. First off, it's a state medical examiner's office. It's a standalone separate entity from any law enforcement agency. It's not like Governed by the state police or anything. It's a standalone agency and they're, they're renowned, they're renowned for their work and the quality of work that they do. So I have no, no doubt he's got this, this abrasion, Dave, that's on multiple surfaces. So he's got road rash on his upper back. He's got abrasions and grazes on his left shoulder, left arm, left side of the torso, and both of his buttock. Okay. So he's kind of twisting and turning again. We don't know if it's in necessarily the horizontal plane or the vertical plane that these things are running relative to the torso itself. And that's just, that's the external vision that, that you have. He's also got healed abrasions that they found on. And scabs on his nose, both of his hands, his knuckles, left foot and heel. He's got an ulcerated healing or ulcer on his right thigh. All of these, according to the medical examiner, these other injuries, which is fascinating to me, predate the night of this event. Dave, and they're referred to as healed abrasions and scabs on his nose.
- [30:52]
A
Okay.
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D
And Dave, you know what? It's not just that they're on his, on his nose. It's there on both hands as well. And the knuckles, Dave, when I see abrasions, when I hear about abrasions on hands and knuckles, you know what I think? Yeah, you know, I think that, that there's physical altercation involved, but yet these things are healing. I think the one thing to try to understand is at what level of resolve are these injuries? Is this something that, because you could, I guess over a 36 hour period, you'll have enough of a change. And I think that we can all relate to this. I mean, we all can. You and I both can. If we, if we scrape our hand, let's say that right now you and I scraped our hand, 36 to 40, 48 hours from now, that insult is going to look completely different than it does right now. Yeah, you would have a scab, you would have some, a bit of resolving that's going on with the injury. Certainly, you know, if you had a contusion there, the contusion is not going to be the same color as it was 48 hours earlier or 36 hours earlier. So I think that within this time frame, I mean, one of the questions is what was going on? What, what had he been involved in? We do know this, that those injuries were still there. They hadn't gone anywhere. So they're not like ancient, ancient injuries. I think that we can probably speculate on that a bit. With, with these injuries though, you're kind of over, there's an overlay of, of the, of the fresh injuries and these old injuries. The, the problem is like many times with, with these, with these issues, there's, you know, sequencing that goes on. What was kind of fascinating about all this, you've got this, this guy that Stuart Fisher, who's an internist and he'd given, he's a physician, he's like an internal, internal medicine guy that has, according to the Daily Mail, had worked, you know, extensively in emergency, you know, medicine. They asked him to review the report and the physician had actually stated that this, this kid has suffered so many catastrophic injuries, Dave, that any number of these insults could have killed him just like standalone. I think probably the most significant one that the, that the, that the doctor, you know, pointed out was the extensive, the extent of skull fractures. Matter of fact, their, you know, their comments relative to this, and this comes from the police investigators that they described his head, Dave, as being caved in. Now how, how can you have a cave in? And that, that would be what's referred to as a depressed skull fracture where you have to have energy transfer from an object to that underlying surface, the external table of the skull, so that that direct energy is coming from, I don't know, a tire or a foot or an object like a bat or a pipe. And you know, the going back to the physician, he said, you know, Dave, there's five, maybe up to 10 life threatening injuries just in standalone, by itself. And that's, again, you have to ask yourself this question, a reasonable question here. Could Noah Presgrove have sustained all of the totality of these injuries simply by being struck by a motor vehicle with a single strike? I, I just, I have a real hard time swallowing.
- [35:06]
A
Joe, what about, what about the clumps of hair? What about the skin on the left side of his scalp that was torn to the bone? I mean, I know there are thinner parts of skin and things like that, but when you start talking about skin being torn to the bone, that's just animalistic behavior to me. It's, it's a, something that unless you're, again, now back to. Unless you are hit by something mechanical. If another human being did this, how enraged are you that you could cause hair to be pulled out, ripping skin to the skull? A clump of hair. A clump of hair was observed on his right butt. Cheek without blood or tissue on it. Joe, have you ever seen a car or truck hit somebody and I guess the truck fairy goes back and finds some hair that's undamaged and lay it on the person like as a wreath?
- [36:09]
D
Yeah, yeah, it all depends. Well, again, we're back to folded clothes. Right, right. How. How do you get head hair that is deposited on the buttock? Well, it's a real dynamic situation. I'll, I'll give you that if it is a rollover. But you know, when you coupled that also with. What was it you had mentioned off of the aspect of the face? We had skin that was peeled back, Dave. This is a phenomenon that's known as degloving. Wow, degloving. Yeah.
- [36:39]
A
We have a name for everything we do.
- [36:42]
D
Well, you give us. Yeah, you really do. Because in some things are so. And look, not all of it comes directly from forensics because you have, you know, people in standard medical practice, you know, deal with individuals that have. Their skin has been de. Gloved. You know, it does, it does happen. It's horrible. It's horrible. And you know, people wound up having skin grafts and all those sorts of things. But yeah, degloving for us, you know, it has a couple of connotations. First off, you can have traumatic degloving and you get degloving with skin in regards to decomposition. You know, like the hands de glove, we, you know, in the morgue, we'll actually take the dermal level of skin and peel it off the hands of a. Off of a decomposing body. Put a latex glove over your own hand and insert your hand into the skin. The de. Glove. Skin of the deceased. And we can roll fingerprints that way. I've done that many times. It's kind of a creepy thing to do. I know, I know what you're thinking right now. No kidding, Joe Scott.
- [37:51]
A
I was actually thinking if it doesn't fit, you must acquit well. Thinking.
- [37:55]
D
Yeah, yeah. And that's again, that's another problem because skin is so stretched. But I'm, I'm digressing. We could do an entire episode on, on things that, that we have to do about decomposing bodies back from the.
- [38:08]
A
Hair and the, the skin that. What about the, the teeth, Joe?
- [38:13]
D
Okay, the teeth are fascinating to me because you've got this array of, of teeth that are lying about on the roadway. Well, in order. The reason there is a term that said people say they got their teeth knocked out is because it's a big deal, Dave.
- [38:32]
A
Yeah.
- [38:32]
D
You realize how hard it is to unroot a tooth traumatically, and that's a single tooth. All right. I think one of the big questions I have and I is was there any kind of maxillary, which means your maxilla is essentially the roof of your mouth. Just give me a little rope here. But it's. It's the roof of the mouth. So your maxillary teeth, the upper teeth, are seated in there. Then you have the mandullary teeth, and those are in the mandible, which is your jaw. All right. And they're deeply rooted. You know, I think that most people can identify with this, you know, what your teeth are like if you ever had tooth pulled. We're not just talking about one or two teeth. We're talking about multiple teeth that are scattered around on the surface of the roadway. Most time it's going to inquire. That's going to require a very forceful impact. I want to know what the underlying diagnosis was for the bony structure supporting the area. Was there extensive jaw fracturing or maxillary fracturing? Because we know that his skull was fractured. What did we say? What did they say earlier? His skull was caved in. Well, the upper skull, if you're talking about, say the right or the left parietal area, which is that area that's. If you'll find your temple and kind of go above and to the rear, that's the parietal area. That's a parietal bone right there. And then you have the occipital bones in the back. They're kind of non specific about that. I'd like to know what specifically what the teeth are. And I'm talking about anatomical orientation. You know, what. What was left? Were the teeth. Okay, were the teeth actually knocked out of his head or. Dave, were the teeth actually fractured and the root was still in place in the, in the, in the socket of the. Of the teeth? Totally two different things here. Okay. There's. There's so much trauma in. In Noah's case, Dave, this, this autopsy alone. Just let me kind of run this down to you. The autopsy alone, when they got into this thing, I would imagine it took them a couple of hours. And you know what the lion's share of their time would have been spent doing here? Doing the external exam because there's so much externally relative to his body. Before you ever break out the cold steel, as we say, and open his remains up, it would be a grand undertaking in order to examine him and try to assess everything, measure it appropriately. And I haven't even talked about, you know, what had happened in his chest cavity because we've got a closed head injury or I guess you could say it's kind of open if they're talking about a depressed skull fracture. But, Dave, for Noah, both of his lungs were punctured. So that means that puncturing of lungs comes about as, as a result of fractured ribs. We'll refer to it many times as a flail chest where you've got multiple ribs on both sides and you get what's referred to as like a floating chest. A lot of blood associated with this. As a matter of fact, I think that they recovered roughly about 3.2 pints of blood. It's about 1500 milliliters of blood. He's got contusion to his heart, his spleen, and his stomach. So this kid has just been obliterated, pounded, and it's not just external, it's what has happened to him internally. There were at the scene. The big thing about it is, is that with all of these injuries, Dave, the one thing that really, really catches your eye other than if you, you didn't need anything else, Dave, there's no pools of blood. There's no pools of blood out there. How do you generate all of these injuries and you don't have like a large puddling of blood that's immediately adjacent to the body or the body is overlying. Just doesn't. It doesn't make sense.
- [43:22]
B
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C
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- [45:25]
A
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- [46:04]
D
Look, I'm. I'm not going to sit here and say that, you know, Noah is some innocent little lamb that was, you know, just brought in that he hadn't been to participate in and party and all this sort of thing, but it still doesn't excuse the idea of how much trauma he, he has had. I'll tell you this for folks that are not aware, his blood alcohol is 0.14 and that's. That exceeds the legal limit, okay, for intoxication, but that means to operate a vehicle. Now, he's underage. He's underage drinking. So at 0.14, you will be slurring your words. You're going to have your motor activity and response time is going to be slowed down significantly. You know, legal drinking, the legal limit for drinking or being drunk, according to state law pretty much around the country, it's going to vary. It's generally point zero eight. His is zero point one four. So he's, he's got, you know, he's got a significant amount of, of alcohol on board. It's not twice the amount quite yet of legal limit, but it's, it's up there. So he would have been impaired. Yeah, but again, you know, somebody that's impaired, Dave, is, is easily pounced upon by somebody.
- [47:36]
A
Well, let me give you the other part of this, Joe, that I really wanted to make sure we understand because we've covered most. We didn't even cover all of his injuries yet. Friends, just so you know what you Heard is. Is a partial list. There's still more. But when he was found in that state with all those injuries, he was naked. He wore only mismatched shoes. One was an Adidas and the other was a. Hey, dudes. There was debris and grass stuck in the laces of each and more of them. On the left shoe, a silver plated chain necklace from Noah's grandmother was scattered in pieces not far away from a. Remnants of a tooth. Not a whole tooth. Remnants of a tooth.
- [48:22]
D
A fracture tooth. Yeah.
- [48:24]
A
Yes. His undamaged shorts were seen about 30 yards away. Jack, this goes back several months ago. Was. Noah's best friend said the. The shorts were actually borrowed. This goes back to that rollover incident with the vehicle.
- [48:45]
D
Yeah, they were dirty.
- [48:46]
A
They just grabbed clothes. You know, there were people spending the night and saying they were grabbing that. That does not surprise me nearly as much, you know, as a lot of the things that have happened. You know, the clothing. What bothers me about the clothing is that he was found naked with all those injuries and his clothing was not on him, near him, torn. I mean, it's, you know, does that make sense, Joe? That really bothers me that he's left in a state of destruction and you're not finding ripped clothes, torn clothes, bloody clothes.
- [49:18]
D
Yeah. And I think this goes to an element. I think in legal terms it's referred to as due care. You know, we were Nancy recently and she was talking about that the public doesn't have an obligation necessarily to tend to somebody that's not directly in. You know, like if you're a caregiver, if you're a parent, that sort of thing. You do have legal obligation, you know, to take care of, you know, infirm people and children and all that sort of thing. But it would seem to me, and there have been lawsuits that have been brought in regards to this sort of thing. When somebody comes to a domicile and they're plowed with alcohol and this is, I mean, bars have gotten sued over this. I know. You know that day where people get. Get hammered, you know, at a local bar and the, the, you know, the bar didn't use due care and allowed the individual to leave and they wound up either getting killed or killing somebody, that sort of thing. So how do you, how do you allow someone to leave your domicile or in your. And you know, that they're this drunk and they're. They're naked and they're wearing mismatched shoes. It's such a bizarre set of circumstances. And then finally, you know, a little while later, he's found. He's. He's found dead a distance from the house out on the road. Dave.
- [50:47]
A
And with conflicting stories from those who are at the party. Yeah, that's the biggest issue. You got friends from. Look, man, you guys all grew up together. Yes. You were having a party. Settle that to the side. We're cops. We got a dead guy. What happened? We can't get the same story from everybody. The minute somebody's lying, somebody's lying, you know, and if you can't get. If you've got five people telling five different stories, they could all be talking about from their perspective of what they saw, but when you put it all together, they all make sense. That isn't happening here. So that's what led Noah's family. Finally, after not getting anywhere with any, you know, by the way, I want to be very. The police have done the best job they can at this point. They've involved others. You know, they've done their investigation. But at a certain point in time, you know, you. You really have to know what happened. And they have yet to figure that out.
- [51:39]
D
So, no, I don't know that they have enough. Enough probable cause to move forward from a legal standpoint in order to intensify the investigation. They have said that they're not investigating this as a homicide. That was one. But I got to tell you, just because you say you're not, they leave that.
- [52:04]
A
Right.
- [52:04]
D
I've. I've been down this road before. Just because they say they're not doesn't mean. And I'm doing air quotes right here. Doesn't mean that new information might develop. Yeah, okay. And not stupid. No, they're not. And they're not going to show their hand, but they've just kind of. This is really your strong suit here. Just kind of lay out this lawsuit because it's.
- [52:27]
A
Well, they filed a wrongful death lawsuit. They filed it and they name names. The family. This is the family of Noah Presgrove. And by the way, when you file a civil lawsuit, it's always monetary, Right? But in this case, they're not asking for enough money like they're. They're asking for $75,000.
- [52:45]
D
Yeah. Hey, I got. I'm glad you said this, because when I saw it, I was thinking, yeah, if this was my kid, you know, there's going to be a one at minimum with six digits after. And I saw 75. Boy, this smacks of just trying to elicit information to me. It does at least. Yeah. I want to know, I got to tell you, this is the one thing about it, I know that, that this is putting the onus on on Noah here. Attorney, as we say, attorneys are going to attorney. That's what they do. But the fact that the press groves filed this lawsuit, Dave, I tell you what, they're what we're staring down the barrel of here. We're going to be getting some depositions and they will be under oath. They will be so ordered by the court and somebody is going to have to go into a big oak paneled office somewhere with lots of fancy books in a room. They're going to sit at a big table and there's going to be a court reporter sitting right there. There's going to be a microphone in front of them and the plaintiff will ask questions and if they have an attorney, their attorney will try to deflect or reframe the thing and there will be questions asked. But the big question is, will we actually get any answers? I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body Bags.
- [54:22]
B
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- [55:24]
C
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C
Learn more@motts.com now streaming on Paramount+ Hunted by hackers, stopped by assassins and wanted by international police, Tony and Ziva are on the run and getting some action. Car chases, surprise weddings, killer drones, undercover ops, robot dogs, daring heists, prison breaks. Nothing will keep this couple from taking down an international conspiracy and clearing their names. Good thing espionage is their love language. Get ready for the ultimate romantic escape with the premiere of NCIS Tony and Ziva, now streaming on Paramount.
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B
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A
This is an iHeart podcast.