Nancy Grace (1:56)

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Bombshell Tonight, Nick Reiner's high profile lawyer jumps ship. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Hollywood legend Rob Reiner and his wife Michelle. They didn't deserve this. It's bad enough that their throats were slit in their sleep.

Narrator/Advertiser (2:27)

The official COD is multiple sharp force.

Alexis Toreschuk (2:30)

Injuries AKA likely that the knife slit their throat.

Alan Jackson (2:33)

They ruled it the manner as homicide. Multiple sharp force injuries. This is something that is driven by rage.

Nancy Grace (2:41)

In the last hours, just as everyone is assembled in the courtroom for Nick Reiner to Be arraigned in the double murder murders of his father, Rob Reiner and mother, Michelle Singer Reiner. Alan Jackson, high profile lawyer that has represented the likes of Kevin Spacey, Harvey Weinstein, Karen Reed. Waltzes in and jumps ship leaves. Why did Mr. Green not show up?

Alan Jackson (3:15)

Listen, as you know, my name is Alan Jackson. This morning I had to withdraw as Nick Leiner's counsel. Circumstances beyond our control. But more importantly, circumstances beyond Nick's control.

Nancy Grace (3:32)

You were just hearing Alan Jackson speaking, claiming I had to withdraw. I had to like he had a gun to his back. Circumstances beyond our control. And more importantly, circumstances beyond Nick as in Nick Reiner's control. I wonder what that could be. Possibly the siblings refusing to pay for the defense of the man they believe killed their father and mother. Joining me, an all star panel. But first, straight out to Alexis Toreschuk, crime stories investigative reporter standing by at the courthouse. Alexis, really? He didn't know before this morning that he was not going to go forward defending Nick Reiner. It just dawned on him as he stepped up to the podium. That's total bs. He knew ahead of time. But what this does is allow more time before a not guilty or guilty plea or ngbri. Not guilty by reason of insanity. This is just the defense attorney's best friend. Delay, delay and delay. Tell me everything.

Alexis Toreschuk (4:41)

So his Alan Jackson appeared in court today and he asked the judge, he said, I would like to be removed as counsel of record for this case. And he said, quote, I have no choice but to ask for this. And so that was what how it started in the court. And the judge agreed. She said, okay, you can be removed as counsel of record again outside. He then said it was beyond his control and it was beyond Nick's control. In port specifically, I had no choice.

Nancy Grace (5:09)

Okay, Alexis Reschuzk, you're telling me what was said in court. But isn't it true that Jackson met with the judge behind closed doors and most likely explained why he was jumping ship?

Alexis Toreschuk (5:23)

Yes. The attorneys all entered court. All of the attorneys went back into chambers with the judge for about 15 minutes and then they came back into court. They spoke with Nick again. He was in the court. He was seated in the inmate's cage. He was wearing a brown jail uniform and a white T shirt underneath. And it appeared that his hands were handcuffed in front of him. They spoke with him through the glass and then they asked the judge. So yes, they had spoken about it. He, in fact, Nick at one point stood up in the cage and he looked around the court and they Called a woman to come over. This woman is Kim Reed. She is a public defender, and she is one of the two public defenders that have been assigned to his case.

Nancy Grace (6:02)

Okay, Alexis, you cut out on me just for one moment. Did you say that Reiner, Nick Reiner, looked around the courtroom and saw who?

Alexis Toreschuk (6:11)

He appeared to look across the courtroom to his new public defender. He. This woman then stood. He stood up. He looked very tall. He looked over his judge.

Nancy Grace (6:20)

I need to let that soak in what you're saying. So this guy that everyone is saying is incompetent doesn't know what's going on. He's insane. He knew to scan the whole courtroom and look over and, oh, there she is. There's my new lawyer. The other one quit. Okay, tell me what else you observe, because everything you're telling me is giving me new information. So Reiner scans the courtroom. He spots Kimberly Green, and he recognizes her. Tell me exactly what happened.

Alexis Toreschuk (6:53)

So he's talking with his three attorneys again. He is still in the inmate cage. He never comes out of the cage into the official courtroom. He isn't there. He is talking. They are all speaking with each other. They're talking. And then he stands up. He's very tall. He's actually probably when he's standing taller than all of his attorneys, he looks across the courtroom and then they say, kim, come here. And this woman goes over. We learned subsequently that that is Kim Green and she is the public defender assigned to this case. So he looked around and looked for her.

Nancy Grace (7:20)

Guys, I want to go quickly to Chris Melcher joining us. Celebrity lawyer, partner at Wilser, Melcher and Yoda, deep experience in complex family law litigation as well as criminal law. Melcher, thank you for being with us. I can think of a few reasons that a lawyer would jump ship right there at the time of the arraignment. Of course, he knew ahead of time, but waited for this poignant and dramatic moment to abandon the case, to walk off the case. One, a conflict of interest. For instance, you, Melcher, know you cannot represent one guy charged with murder and the co defendant charged with the same murder because you may want to blame each other. I don't know what you might cook up as a defense, but you cannot. No man can serve two masters, period. So conflict of interest. There's no conflict of interest here. Ethics, really. He represented Harvey Weinstein. Yeah. He's not leaving a case because he has an ethical concern. So let's see what's left. Not getting paid. Mr. Green didn't show up. Cha Ching can you think of any other reason? Melcher?

Chris Melcher (8:33)

I think that's it. Because the other ground for permissive withdraw and Alan needed permission of the court or his client to get out. He can't just quit. Would be the client made it unreasonably difficult to provide representation. I really doubt that that's it. This is the most high profile criminal case out there. And Alan attached himself to it quickly. I don't think he would want to leave that other than not getting paid. And this was a question that I had at the beginning is who was funding this very expensive defense and also who allowed access to Alan Jackson and his team almost immediately after the forensic team for the police left, Alan Jackson just got access to that house. Who allowed that access? And so it seemed like somebody in the family or maybe a trustee was providing funding and access to the home. And then maybe there's a change of heart or really coming to their senses. Like why are we helping this guy who just killed our parents?

Nancy Grace (9:33)

Guys, in the last hours, Alan Jackson, high profile attorney who has handled many, many notorious cases has left Nick Reiner, I would say high and dry. But obviously Reiner knew in court who was his new attorney. She's very, very experienced. Kimberly Green from the public defender's office. He knew already who his lawyer was, his new lawyer. So I imagine this all went down before court, possibly yesterday, last night, because there seemed to be no surprise on his part and at all. Joining me in all star panel. But I want you to hear what Alan Jackson just said. In recent days.

Alan Jackson (10:15)

There are very, very complex and serious issues that are associated with this case. Those need to be thoroughly but very carefully dealt with and examined and looked at and analyzed. This was continuance of arraignment. Nothing happened today substantively. We'll be back for an arraignment in the same department on the 7th of January. We'll see you then.

Nancy Grace (10:44)

That from our friends at FOX News. Okay, let's dissect what we're just hearing. There are very, very complex, serious issues associated with this case. In other words, how am I getting paid? Okay, those need to be thoroughly but very carefully dealt with and examined and looked at and analyzed. That came from the department of Redundancy. Redundancy department. Very carefully dealt with and examined and looked at and analyzed. In other words, I'm going to have to investigate his checking account to see if there's a daddy's trust fund in there anywhere. There was a continuance of the arraignment. Nothing happened substantively. All we're doing is waiting for my check to come through. I think that's what he was saying right there. Back to you. Alexis Toreschuk joining us, crime stories, investigative reporter at the courthouse. Did anybody seem surprised at all?

Heather Michaels (11:41)

No.

Alexis Toreschuk (11:42)

And in fact, the judge asked Nick the only time he spoke in court, she said, Mr. Reiner, do you agree to this? And he says, yeah, I agree to that. That's exactly what he said. Those are specific words. So he knew, agreed upon. And in fact, Kimberly Green said outside of court after the hearing, she said, this was discussed last night. So they all were coming into this knowing this this morning. And Nick said he agreed. He said, yeah, I agree to that.

Nancy Grace (12:06)

Take a listen to more of what Jackson had to say, what we've learned.

Alan Jackson (12:14)

And you can take this to the bank. Is it pursuant to the laws of this state, pursuant to the law in California, Nick Reiner is not guilty of murder. Print that. Print that.

Nancy Grace (12:33)

Okay. You know what? He's very wily. He's a good lawyer. And, you know, you can't blame a private attorney for not taking a case that's going to include thousands of hours of his or her own work, plus their legal team and their investigators and their experts if they're not going to get paid. But frankly speaking to you, Melcher, public defenders get a bad rap. But they are some of, if not the most experienced trial lawyers in the courthouse. They don't get to say no to a case they don't like. You don't want to represent a child molester. Sorry, it's your case. Now get on. You can't get out of it as a public defender, that's your job to represent people that have no representation. So it's not like Reiner is getting a bad deal. Greene is a good lawyer, a great lawyer. We don't expect private lawyers to work for free. The public, you and I pay public defenders. Somebody like Jackson Reiner's got to pay him. Don't expect them to work for free. Agree.

Chris Melcher (13:40)

Absolutely. And you know, Los Angeles, the Criminal courts building, has some of the most experienced public defenders out there. And these are people who have dedicated their lives. They're very passionate. Like you say, they get paid very little. They don't get to choose their clients. And they're handling really horrific cases and have substantial experience. So he can be well served. He's not going to get. Nick's not going to get the polish of Alan Jackson, but he'll get good defense. Now, maybe some money opens up later on somehow. Maybe there's a probate court action that's involved in trying to open up some trust funds. Maybe then there's some attorney that goes there, maybe there's a private attorney who wants it simply for the sake of publicity. And, and that, that could happen too.

Nancy Grace (14:29)

You know what Alan Jackson has that a lot of other lawyers don't have. Melcher and I witnessed this up close when I was a co anchor, co host with Johnnie Cochran. We both started Court TV on the same show, Cochran and Grace. And of course everything that came out of his mouth was a lie for his clients. Of course Simpson did it. Of course everybody he represented did it. When you see Johnnie Cochran walk in, everybody goes, oh yeah, they did it, they did it. Okay, Somehow they paid for Cochran. But he had what I called then the it factor. He had it. You know those people, they walk in the courtroom and no matter what's happening, everybody turns around and looks at them. It's. You can't learn it in law school. Nobody can teach it to you. You have it or you don't. It's a presence, it's, it's a star quality. It's a showboat quality. And I don't mean that in a bad way. It's an it factor. That's the only way I know how to describe it. It's not necessarily a charisma because some people that have it are real a holes, but they've got it. But he has that. He has that just like Cochran had it. Do you agree or disagree with that? That's the thing money can't buy.

Chris Melcher (15:46)

Absolutely, Nancy. And Alan Jackson does have that presence and he is a showboat, but he also has something to back it up with. And highly experienced as a prosecutor and in his short involvement in this case, I mean, he went to the house with investigators to look at the scene and I'm sure work this thing up very well. So, yeah, he is going to deliver, but it comes at a great cost. And it just seems like maybe Nick couldn't find that money.

Nancy Grace (16:21)

So. Sydney Sumner joining me, Crime Stories, investigative reporter along with Alexis Treschuk at the courthouse. Sydney, what do we know about the new lawyer Kimberly Green from the Public defender's office? Well, Ms. Green is one of two public defenders assigned to this case and she's been with the LA Public Defense Office since 2007. She graduated from Loyola Los Angeles with her law degree and that's about all we know at the moment. I know this. She's had a very heavy caseload and has tried a lot of cases. Well, there's Another side to take into account, and that is the prosecution. This is what they had to say in the last hours.

Alan Jackson (17:01)

Los Angeles County.

Chris Melcher (17:03)

With me is Habib Balian. He is the assistant head deputy of Major Crimes. He will be prosecuting this case.

Alan Jackson (17:09)

I'm here to make three points that.

Chris Melcher (17:11)

I will not be taking questions afterwards.

Alan Jackson (17:14)

In our criminal justice system, every defendant.

Chris Melcher (17:18)

Is entitled to a lawyer who will.

Alan Jackson (17:20)

Zealously represent their interests and do so effectively.

Chris Melcher (17:25)

So, too, is Nick Reinhardt.

Alan Jackson (17:26)

Whether it's Ellen Jackson, someone from the public defender's office, or any lawyer, he's entitled to that lawyer, and we'll make sure he gets that lawyer.

Chris Melcher (17:36)

Second point, in the process of dealing.

Alan Jackson (17:38)

With that lawyer, we will make sure the DA's office will make sure that that lawyer is provided with full discovery.

Chris Melcher (17:45)

Of all the facts that pertain to this particular situation.

Alan Jackson (17:50)

Whether it's interviews, whether it's any type of video, whether it's any type of expert reports. We'll make sure that that lawyer gets.

Chris Melcher (17:59)

The facts necessary to effectively represent their client in a court of law. And third point, we are fully confident.

Alan Jackson (18:09)

That a jury will convict Nick Reiner beyond a reasonable doubt of the brutal.

Chris Melcher (18:15)

Murders of his parents, Rob Reiner and.

Alan Jackson (18:18)

Michelle Singer Reiner, and do so unanimously. Thank you very much.

Nancy Grace (18:27)

You were just hearing Nathan Hockman, the elected district attorney, and you heard the press immediately peppering him with questions about the death penalty. Now, there are several ways that the defense can go here. They can claim mental incompetency, which does not mean insanity at the time of the double murders. Mental incompetency, and I've handled many of them, is when the defense lawyer says he is too incompetent to aid me in his defense, he just can't help me. Therefore, the defendant would have to be hospitalized and hopefully rehabilitated through counseling, through therapy, through medication, until they were able to aid their lawyer in their own defense. That's mental incompetency. There is not guilty by reason of insanity, which means Reiner would have been insane at the time of the murders. The old MacNaughton test is the general rule of insanity in our country, which means, did you know right or wrong at the time of the incident? And I'm going to get into it with our panel, whether he did or did not know right from wrong at the time his parents were stabbed, I say, yeah, he knew it was wrong. So you've got mental incompetency, which can buy you some time. You've got ngbri, not guilty by reason of insanity. You've got plea guilty. That's not going to happen. And you've got not guilty. Those are the choices. Those are the only choices at this juncture. Straight back out to Alexis Toreschuk joining us from the courthouse. It seemed like, as you mentioned earlier, nobody was surprised. This was in the works. It bought them, what, 48 hours before the next court appearance. I'd like you to describe Nick Reiner's demeanor in the courtroom.

Alexis Toreschuk (20:24)

So he was very calm. He looked very aware, alert. He was speaking with his attorneys repeatedly. There were three of them. They would talk to him. He was looking around the courtroom when they weren't speaking. He was looking out into the gallery. He was looking at everybody that he could see in the court. He was not crying. He was not upset. His face looked very clear. His head was completely shaved. And he seemed to engage with his attorneys. And then when the judge asked him to speak, he said, yeah, I agree to that. He was very clear in understanding what was going on as far as answering her questions. And then again, he stood up at one point, Alexis to look over his lawyers. Yes.

Nancy Grace (21:03)

Were any other family members there? The. The siblings, were they there?

Alexis Toreschuk (21:09)

No, there were no Reiner family members in the.

Alan Jackson (21:20)

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Alexis Toreschuk (21:49)

Can you grab one more thing?

Chris Melcher (21:50)

I'll come back up for you.

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Alan Jackson (22:06)

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Nancy Grace (24:21)

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Yeah, you know what, that, that tells me a lot. Straight back out to Chris Melter. He's a veteran trial lawyer. You know what I mean? If the siblings, if Reiner's, Nick Reiner's siblings were lining up beside him, they would have been in court today. We know it. I don't know if you're going to admit to it, but the fact that they were not there tells me A, they're not going to help him out of this, they're not getting his rear end out of a sling, and B, they sure aren't going to pay for his defense. And that is why Alan Jackson's off the case.

Chris Melcher (25:01)

Absolutely. And that's a common sense reaction. You would think that a family member's siblings that they're not going to support the person that allegedly murdered their parents. But I do go back to the access that Alan Jackson got to the home, and it was maybe like on a Tuesday or something after the crime, right after the LAPD forensics left, he walks in and I think it might have been a Reiner assistant that opens the gate. So who, who allowed that? There was no court order for it that the defense could have received. It was pre arranged.

Nancy Grace (25:37)

Wait a minute, wait a minute. It was also the home of Nick Reiner. Couldn't Reiner give consent for him to come into the home? His home too? He lived there.

Chris Melcher (25:48)

I mean, I suppose as an occupant, but then the other people could have just said, no, we're not. We're just not letting you in. And it would be then a civil matter. The police aren't going to intervene with that. You'd have to get a court order.

Nancy Grace (26:01)

What other people? Nobody else lived there. The other siblings lived elsewhere at Romeo, across the street. But there was no one to say, hey, we live here and you can't come in. He lived there. He wasn't just an occupant. That was his home along with his parents. He could have been. Oh, I'm so glad you said that, Melcher. That tells me it's very likely he was in his right mind to allow Alan Jackson consent to come into the home, to hire Jackson and to give him access to the home. He was actually making an investigative decision. He could have allowed that consent.

Chris Melcher (26:39)

Yeah. It's really remarkable how he got in there and then back to, I mean, the, the Sunday evening before he got arrested, he goes into the convenience store and he buys Gatorade. So obviously he knew the difference between right and wrong. He knew he couldn't just come and take that Gatorade and walk out with it. He knew he had to pay for it.

Nancy Grace (26:59)

You're seeing that video that Melter's talking about from our friends at cbs. Joining me right now, special guest Heather Michaels. She is not just an investigative reporter, a producer, she's a social justice agent, advocate. But she is a neighbor and a dear friend of the Reiner family. Are you surprised that Romy and her brothers did not show up to court today?

Heather Michaels (27:25)

Heather, I am not surprised at all. Not one bit. Their parents were brutally murdered. This is their brother. But he's essentially estranged from. And this is something that took everybody by storm. Entirely devastating. I am not surprised. I was waiting for this. I was shocked that Alan Jackson jumped onto this. But quite frankly, this was an opportunity for him. And I think he pushed his way in. And I'm just going to be frank about this. He didn't have the authority from the family or longtime family friends, the very close friends that have been like family. This was not an authorized chess move forward or Nick. So I am not surprised about today at all. I was waiting for the next shoe to fall.

Alan Jackson (28:17)

As you know, my name is Alan Jackson. This morning I had to withdraw as Nick Leiner's counsel. Circumstances beyond power control. But more importantly, circumstances beyond Nick's control.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (28:33)

There was blood in the bathtub.

Nancy Grace (28:35)

There was blood all over the bathroom.

Alexis Toreschuk (28:37)

There was blood on the bed sheets.

Nancy Grace (28:38)

What do we know? So much more evidence to sift through in the murders of Rob Reiner and wife Michelle Singer Reiner.

Alan Jackson (28:48)

LAPD responded to a residence, the residence of Rob and Michelle Reiner located in West Los Angeles division. At that location they found two deceased adults, a male and a female. Through the night. Working with the coroner's office, they were able to identify them definitively as Rob and Michelle Reiner. Unable to get in touch with her parents all day Sunday, Romy Reiner decides to make a house visit. Around 3:30, Romy lets herself into their Brentwood home and discovers a horrifying scene. Rob and Michelle Reiner stabbed and their throats slit. Romy dials 911 in a panic, but EMTs can do nothing.

Nancy Grace (29:29)

That earlier sound from law enforcement, from our friends at Fox 11 joining me in all star panel, straight back out to Alexis Tureschuk joining us at the courthouse. I heard you describe what Nick Reiner was wearing. Normally I don't care about fashion, but in this particular case I find it extremely probative. He was not wearing a suicide suit smock, is that correct?

Alexis Toreschuk (29:53)

That is correct. It was just, it appeared to be a white T shirt and a brown uniform. Interesting. The other inmates who had been in there prior to his case being heard were in blue. He was in brown. So there was that difference between them. And again his head was completely shaved and his face looked clear. He didn't have any markings or anything from what I could see. And, and he was again looking around the court, chatting with his attorneys. And then after Jackson was recused by the judge, Kimberly Green came over to him in the court and she stood outside the inment cage and they were again speaking to each other. We couldn't see what she was saying, but they were speaking to each other. And then the judge asked him again, is this what you agree to? And he says, yeah, I agree to that.

Nancy Grace (30:36)

I'm going out on a limb here. Sidney Sumner, Crime Stories investigative reporter, also joining us. Sidney, I imagine that the other inmates were in GP general population, while Reiner suicide watch is still under high observation. And the uniforms may very well be different. So the wardens, the employees at the jail, at the CI Correctional Institute can look at a suspect, a defendant, and know, hey, he's wearing tan. He's not supposed to be in gp, get him back to high observation, you know, like school uniforms and the kindergartners wear the little red dress and then they wear the plaid smock and then they go to middle school and they wear the cute little khaki skirt. The teachers just look at them and they know where they're supposed to be. I bet that's why his uniform, his jail, his inmate uniform was different than the others. That's absolutely right. So he doesn't have to wear that anti self harm smock anymore, but he is in specific clothing, specific clothing for that high observation housing unit where he's currently being held. And reports say that even if he is released from this high observation unit.

Narrator/Advertiser (31:50)

He will still be very closely monitored.

Nancy Grace (31:53)

And still kept in solitary.

Alan Jackson (31:55)

Reiner appears in court sans an anti self harm smock after his arrest on two charges of murder to finally enter a plea. Reiner moved off suicide watch at the Twin Towers Correctional Facility, no longer to wear a padded smock, and now allowed a yellow shirt with blue uniform pants. Reiner still held alone in high observation housing until a judge orders him to move elsewhere. Even if Reiner is released from hoh, he will be closely monitored and have a cell to himself.

Nancy Grace (32:22)

Straight out to Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us, high profile psychoanalyst in that jurisdiction, Louisiana, author of Deal Breakers. You can see her now on Peacock and you can find her at Dr.bethany marshall.com. Dr. Bethany, explain to me what it means when someone is off suicide watch but they are in high observation.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (32:44)

It means that they're in an extraordinarily fragile state, right? That there's a risk that they could try to harm themselves or somebody else, but they're not such an acute risk at that point. It could also be that they've stabilized him on medications or that that signs of suicidality like disruption and sleep, appetite, concentration, being labile, being dis. Regulated, that that has all gone away and he's kind of resumed normal function at this point.

Nancy Grace (33:12)

So normal function but yet not in gp, not in general population. Right?

Dr. Bethany Marshall (33:21)

Normal function. Nancy, this Nick Reiner is extraordinarily bright, oriented towards reality, inventive he was really good at getting himself taken care of in whatever way he needed. I used to listen to him on the Dopey podcast. It's a podcast about drug addict. He would call in and when he was in rehab in Maine, he calls into the Dopey podcast and he tells them he wants to go home and live with his parents. So he's going to get sober for a couple of weeks just so they'll discharge him so he can go back to his parents house to use. And that was discussed on the podcast. He was bright enough to do that. He's bright enough, Nancy, to aid in his own defense. To have known that if he was on serious substances it could get to this point with the people around him. And I cannot blame his siblings. Siblings for not wanting him out of jail. They probably feel that they're at risk too of harm. Why have a. A homicidal person who refuses to get sober, who's gone to 18 rehabs in 17 years. Why inflict that person out on society?

Narrator/Advertiser (34:26)

That.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (34:26)

That would be wrong for them to assist in his defense. I really think. And they understand that.

Heather Michaels (34:30)

Well.

Nancy Grace (34:30)

And also who's left them? The siblings. Yes. They do not want him out from behind bars. You were speaking of the Dopey podcast he would call in on.

Alan Jackson (34:41)

Listen, I got totally spun out on uppers. I think it was coke and something else. And I was up for days on end and I started punching out different things in my guest house. Like a frame.

Chris Melcher (34:54)

Like.

Alan Jackson (34:54)

Like what? Like a stuff. I think I started with the TV and then I went over to the lamp and then progressive. I just. Everything in the guest house got wrecked.

Nancy Grace (35:06)

So I want to follow up on this. Sidney Sumner joining us. Sidney. He is in the Twin Tower CI Correctional Institute. Isn't that the same CI that housed Sam Haskell? I guess the fourth or the fifth. Oh gosh. There he is. Didn't they house Haskell? Absolutely. That is the same facility and that's where Haskell took his own life. Speaking of another Hollywood Nepo, baby, let's take a little listen to Sam Haskell.

Alan Jackson (35:36)

Correction. I'm not so much interested in like whole body health. Like this is not CBD is not about wellness for me. I'm trying to get peace. 100 GIA shouts out to the waiter at the restaurant above Nordstrom's for just like completely burning the out of my filet. Like what kind of a monster are you, homie?

Nancy Grace (35:59)

Shout out to the waiter that totally ruined my $60 steak I had at lunch. Really? That's from Tragic Streets on TikTok. Another Nepo baby ends up in twin towers to Dr. Bethany Marshall. The shock must be drastic to go from living in your dad's multimillion dollar mansion, the pool house, raiding the sub zero whenever you felt like it, having both parents at your whim to bail you out of everything you have ever done to pay for you carte blanche. And now you're in observation high observation at Twin Towers. C.I. whoa.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (36:48)

Which is where he, Nancy, is where he should be. I mean, it's one of the biggest psychiatric facilities on the west coast because they have so many psychiatric admissions there in tandem with crimes. You know, Rob and Michelle were very loving, psychologically healthy, growth promoting parents who did anything for their son Nick. And he abused that. And he did what addicts do to families. They can take really normal, lovely, delightful parents and just turn them into accommodators. They wrap the parents around their little finger. He's not going to be able to wrap the public defender or the prosecutor or the jail guards or the psychiatrist in the facility. He's not going to be able to wrap any of them around his finger. And I think that's where the shock is really going to lie. His protective layer is now gone as well as it should be. He does not need anybody protecting him at this point.

Alan Jackson (37:46)

How many times have you been in and out of rehab? I'll be honest, it's been like 17 or 18 times. I started when I was like almost about to turn 15. He was there until like 19. Yeah, probably 15 to 19. And yeah, it's like been three or.

Nancy Grace (38:01)

Four years from the pledge and the.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (38:03)

Turn, there was a pretty big argument.

Narrator/Advertiser (38:05)

Between Rob, Michelle and their son Nick. Nick has had a very long and troubled history with drugs.

Nancy Grace (38:11)

Nick Reiner is an abuser. He's a drug addict. For those of you just joining us, and abrupt u turn goes down in the courtroom today in what should have been Nick Reiner's formal arraignment, his high profile lawyer Alan Jackson jumps ship and says circumstances out of his control and out of Nick Reiner's control have forced him off the case. In other words, the siblings are not paying for. Jackson straight back out to Alexis to Restchuck joining us at the courthouse. Alexis, for those just joining us, what happened?

Alexis Toreschuk (38:52)

So Alan Jackson, Nick Reiner's attorney, appeared in the court today with Nick and he asked the judge to remove him as counsel of record. He said he had no choice but to ask for this request and the judge granted it and said, you are no longer his attorney. He is now represented by a public defender. And Nick was asked in court, do.

Narrator/Advertiser (39:11)

You agree with this?

Alexis Toreschuk (39:12)

And he said, yeah, I agree with that. So there was a deal that was made and the public defender actually said Nick was aware of this last night. So this morning they went in and they told the judge, first they were behind closed doors in chambers, and then they came out and said that this was what was happening.

Nancy Grace (39:29)

Alexis Tureshuk, I don't understand why you say it like that. A public defender. Those are some of the best trial lawyers in the courthouse. Just because they don't get paid what Alan Jackson or Chris Meltzer gets paid to represent somebody does not mean they are not excellent, tactical and strategic lawyers at trial. And you know, another thing. Wait, well, what? Go ahead.

Alexis Toreschuk (39:57)

Well, I was going to say Kimberly Green went to one of the best law schools in Los Angeles. Loyola is known as one of the top law schools in Los Angeles. And she has been practicing for almost 20 years at as a public defender.

Nancy Grace (40:08)

You know, and in cases like this, just in case there's going to be a dp, you have to be DP qualified. You can't just waltz in having never sat second seat, at least on X number of trials, it varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Alexis Torezczuk is joining us at the courthouse. But as it relates to public defenders, it does shouldn't lead to bad taste in your mouth. They are veteran trial lawyers, okay? And all of this business about being forced off the case. He forced himself off the case. Nobody asked him to leave the case. He did not have an ethical violation. He did not have a conflict of interest that we know of. So there you go. He just wasn't going to get paid. Now, earlier we were hearing Dr. Bethany Marshall describing what it means to be on high observation within the Twin Towers. It means you're off suicide watch, but they're still keeping a close eye on you. In the last year, Sam Haskell, a huge Nepo baby. His dad was the Hollywood agent to the stars. The dad represented Dolly Parton. Whoopi Goldberg, just off the top of my head, I can't remember all of them, but a list celebrity. I mean, look, if he represented Dolly Parton, you know, he's got to be in the big league. And this is his son. Let's see him again. I believe he had posted one video of himself, like on a seesaw, going up and down and up and down while he lived off his wife and his daddy's paycheck. Hey, let's take a listen to him.

Alan Jackson (41:49)

I went to A tech conference real quick, you guys, by mistake. And the number one thing they talked about was consistency. Like, be consistent. Now I'm consistently never gonna stop drinking. Talking on AirPods, just talking randomly with, like, nobody on the other end. It just feels important. Order multiple drinks and I'll just be like, oh, yeah, they're on their way. If you see me typing really fast, like, looking really productive on my laptop, just like typing, typing. Chances are I'm just typing random letters.

Nancy Grace (42:22)

And numbers from tragic streets on TikTok. Living off of his father, making his wife May work her tail off to pay the house payment while he's out whining about the steak he got. Where? Where? Where did he get the steak? Whining. I mean, ugh. Long story short, regardless of what you think about the life, he chose to live his unproductive life, he committed suicide in Twin Towers. Do I have to say the name? Jeffrey Epstein. Who had actually been on suicide watch. Have you looked at the videos of the jail? I mean, they can't tell who got into his cell, who didn't get into his cell, who. It's still hotly contested. Did he commit suicide or was he murdered? Many, many renowned medical examiners and death investigators insist he did not commit suicide based on the markings on his neck. But that said, it was under the watch of two guards that he died and they knew nothing about it. So what do you know, Alexis Torres chuk about the safeguards on this guy, Nick Reiner?

Alexis Toreschuk (43:51)

Well, while he's been removed from suicide watch, that doesn't mean that he's not under constant surveillance.

Nancy Grace (43:57)

He.

Alexis Toreschuk (43:57)

In fact, they took special precautions. He wasn't brought into the courtroom with the three other defendants that were there today. He was by himself. There was the sheriff's deputy standing right next to him the whole time. He is down, definitely still under very high surveillance because the district attorney doesn't want something else terrible to happen and certainly nobody wants this to happen to him.

Alan Jackson (44:15)

Shouts out to the waiter at the restaurant above Nordstrom's for just like, completely burning the out of my filet. Like, what kind of a monster are you, homie? Have you ever turned a dollar into ten grand? I doubt it. But now you can. On Better picks. Download the Better app. Pick more or less on your favorite player's stats, watch the games and win some cash. It's that simple. Better picks available in 33 states, including Texas, California and Georgia. Download the Better app today. That's better. B E T R. And get a free $10. No deposit necessary. Must be 21 or older in a jurisdiction where better Picks operates in terms of conditions apply. Better Picks Sports just got better.

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Nancy Grace (46:35)

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Nancy Grace (47:05)

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Heather Michaels (47:11)

He struggled with mental health issues most of his life. He struggled with a lot. There were times when some things that he said were just a little odd. It's just unthinkable.

Nancy Grace (47:20)

It's unfathomable.

Heather Michaels (47:21)

These are two parents that were absolutely fantastic, were loving, compassionate.

Nancy Grace (47:27)

A major turn of events in the courtroom today. High profile lawyer Alan Jackson jumps a ship and leaves the defense of Nick Reiner charged in the double murders of his father, Rob Reiner, an icon, and his beloved wife, Michelle Singer Reiner. Joining me now, special guest, Dr. Thomas Coyne. He is the Chief Medical Examiner, District 2, Medical Examiner's Office, State of Florida. He is a forensic pathologist. He's a toxicologist, he's a neuropathologist, and it goes on. Dr. Coyne, thank you for being with us tonight. Question to you. You now know the COD cause of death, different from mod manner of death. The cause of death I find very interesting, and it suggests to me that there was either a frenzy attack or the Reiners fought back. There were multiple stab wounds, not just the slitting of the throats of the two victims in their sleep, but multiple stab wounds if the jugular was not slit first. Dr. Coyne, did they suffer? Did they know what was happening to them?

Alan Jackson (48:45)

Well, unfortunately, they probably did stab wounds or incised wounds even to our neck because, you know, within our neck we have both our jugular vein and we have the carotid artery. And if you sever either one of those, you're going to bleed a lot and you're going to bleed very fast. But it can still take several minutes for you to become incapacitated or lose consciousness, especially if it's the vein that's struck, because bleeding will be slower, but you are still conscious through that process. Unless the knife goes into the actual brain itself, consciousness will still be present. So I would imagine that unfortunately during this attack, they were conscious and aware of what was happening to them.

Nancy Grace (49:27)

Dr. Thomas Coyne, I know that it's SOP, standard operating procedure for you to conduct autopsy after autopsy after autopsy in the thousands. But do you have to steel yourself? For instance, if you were doing the autopsy of Rob and Michelle Reiner, do you allow yourself when you're looking at that body to think, dear Lord, I hope they didn't suffer? And then you look at the wounds and you realize there may have been a struggle. So they did suffer. They did know what was happening to them, you know, in the Bryan Kohberger case, here's a great example. We were first told basically, that the four beautiful University of Idaho students just went to sleep and then they were in heaven, just like that. Nothing happened in between. That's a lie. They fought for their lives. They struggled. One victim was stabbed over 30 times in the face. And you have to accept that, grapple with it and know that they suffered. And I just wonder, how do you do that day in, day out?

Alan Jackson (50:37)

You have to get really good at Tucking those emotions inside. I had a stab wound, multiple stab wound case about a week ago. And I think if I thought about that person as being someone's father or someone's son, I wouldn't be able to do my job. I have to tuck those emotions down deep, be scientific about how I approach the case, try to answer all questions I can for law enforcement. And then afterwards, if an emotion comes to my brain, I try to suppress it as best as I can, because if I entertain those emotions, I wouldn't be able to do my job. But it is very hard.

Nancy Grace (51:10)

Well, you're right, Dr. Coyne. I remember distinctly being in the courtroom and just getting through it and steeling myself, not allowing myself to think about what the victims went through. And then when I would leave the courthouse, there were times I'd actually have to pull over off the side of the road and just to stop and think about what I had just learned from usually the medical examiner on the side stand. I want to return to a very special guest joining us, Heather Michaels. She's just not only an activist, a producer or reporter, she was a very dear friend of the Reiners, still a friend of the children, their neighbor. How do you come to the grips with the fact that the Reiners, they just. Just get their throats slit, which is bad enough, but that could have happened just like that. There were multiple stab wounds as they lie in their bed. They fought. They knew what was happening to them. Heather.

Heather Michaels (52:19)

I struggle with that. It's so painful to imagine that Rob and Michelle were aware of this happening as it was happening. I've held back a lot in how I express my, you know, my feelings of truly of how things unfolded, but it's. It comes across like a rage. I mean, this was a brutal murder. And I'm not going to sugarcoat anything because the Reiner family, Rob and Michelle, were such special individuals. And the children, all of them now, you know, I keep calling them children. They're adult adults. Every one of them is amazing. I am very angry. You know what? A lot of the things I've seen in recent days and that I also know that I haven't expressed here, it's just. It's hard to come to grips with this. It's an unbelievably disturbing tragedy. And it's becoming a circus at the same time with some of the games that are being played with Alan Jackson even today. I'm not surprised, as I mentioned. But this is going to unravel even further with the optics and the circus and the way things this is covered. I just want to get back to one more thing I want to say is, again, Rob and Michelle were so dearly loved by everybody, by the industry, by his dear family, friends, lifelong friends, you know, his father, you know, that legacy of producers and actors in the industry and his neighbors, his elderly neighbors, they were just really special people. And I just don't want, you know, to forget that this is a tragedy and just what beautiful souls they were. And they did everything they could with Nick. This is a very difficult situation when somebody has mental health challenges and struggles with schizophrenia, which is what I had mentioned to you when we did the other program. He's aware of his actions, though, and I'm just going to put that out there.

Nancy Grace (54:35)

You know, Heather, you stated that you were concerned that this will, quote, turn into a circus. I can promise you, Heather Michaels, there will not be one night that we cover this investigation that we do not make it about the victims Rob and Michelle and their family left behind. The big banner today is all about Nick Reiner and Alan Jackson. But for me, it's about Rob Reiner and Michelle Singer Reiner that were brutally slashed dead in their own beds, according to prosecutors, by a son that they had spoon fed every privilege possible throughout his life. If you know or think you know anything about this case before, during or after the incident, LAPD is constructing a case along with the district attorney. Please call Crime Stoppers, 800-222-8477. Repeat, 800-222-8477. Now we remember an American hero, Trooper Tara Gooding, Washington State Patrol, just 29, killed in the line of duty, leaving behind her young husband, American hero, Trooper Tara Gooding. Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for being with us tonight and every night. Nancy Grace signing off. But I'll see you tomorrow night, God willing. And until then, good night, friend.

Alan Jackson (56:35)

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Chris Melcher (57:07)

And searches for answers.

Alan Jackson (57:09)

Detective Jack Harper is strangely suspicious of her involvement, chasing her into the crosshairs.

Chris Melcher (57:14)

Of his own investigation.

Alan Jackson (57:15)

It's a show that reminds you that small towns are often filled with the most secrets, and no one is who they seem. Seriously, with every twist, you're left wondering, can you trust anyone in this town? Can Anna and Jack trust each other? Or is one of them hiding something? The closer they get to each other, the closer they get to the truth, and we cannot wait to see how it unfolds. Don't miss the suspense and the drama. Watch his and Hers Only on Netflix January 8th well, the holidays have come and gone once again. But if you've forgotten to get that special someone in your life a gift, well, Mint Mobile is extending their holiday offer of half off unlimited wireless. So here's the idea. You get it now, you call it an early present for next year. What do you have to lose? Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch limited time.

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Alexis Toreschuk (58:06)

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Alan Jackson (58:12)

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Narrator/Advertiser (58:42)

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