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This is an iHeart podcast. Stop settling for weak sound. It's time to level up your game and bring the boom. Hit the town with the ultra durable LG X Boom portable speaker and enjoy vibrant sound wherever you go. Elevate your listening experience to new heights because let's be real, your music deserves it. The future of sound is now with LG x boom. And for a limited time, save 25%@LG.com with code fall25 bring the boom. Xboom. I'm Glen Washington, the host of KQD's snap judgment podcast. And at snap, we don't just tell stories, we live them. Every week a different journey, like on a plane with Rihanna. A racetrack in Tijuana, A year inside an Oakland homeless encampment. Real people, real voices with original music and cinematic sound. Snap Judgment from kqed. New episodes every Thursday. Wherever you get your podcasts, there's nothing like sinking into luxury. At washablesofas.com, you'll find the Annabe sofa which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. And get this, it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom. Starting at only $699, the stain resistant performance fabric slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now you can shop up to 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop now@washablesofas.com Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Charlie Kirk suspects sick jokes after the shooting that claimed the life of Kirk Antonite. Are others in on the murder plot? Did he have help? Now he's being called a furry freak. What, if anything, did that have to do with motive? I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news tonight, the lone shooter, the assassin that gunned down 31 year old Charlie Kirk. We already have a suspect in custody, Tyler Robinson, a 22 year old Utah resident. Good morning ladies and gentlemen. We got him. Did he have help? Did he act alone again tonight? Breaking news as we go to air. But for Those of you just joining us, this is what happened. So do you know how many transgender Americans have been mass shooters over the last 10 years? Too many. Okay, now, five is a lot, right? I'm gonna give you. I'm gonna give you some credit. Do you know how many mass shooters there have been in America over the 10 years, counting or not counting? Gang violence. Great Chaos on the Utah Valley University campus as thousands of students and locals run from Kirk's booth, screaming. Kirk's security team rushes into action, putting pressure on Kirk's wound and escorting him to a waiting SUV to take him to the hospital. At this hour, law enforcement remaining mum whether or not the shooting suspect had help. Were others in or on the plot? Did they help him retrieve the gun, retrieve his vehicle? What do we know? As we go to air, we are learning that the Kirk shooting suspect is tied to the murder scene through DNA straight out of city. Sunra. Joining us, crime stories investigative reporter. What DNA? Well, on both a screwdriver found on the roof of the low C center where he took that shot and on the towel where he wrapped the rifle and left it the woods, hoping to go back for it later. Guys, very, very typical that DNA is found, but not necessarily on the murder weapon. We are also learning at this hour that the suspect is no longer cooperating, not speaking to police. Why? Now we learn he is being placed on a, quote, special watch. We know he told his family he would rather die then go into custody. Joining us in all star panel, but first, I want to go to a very special guest joining us, Tiana Lau, a witness to the Kirk shooting. Tiana, what happened? What did you witness? So it was into the second question, and that was when I heard the gunshot go off. I was with my friend. We thought it was a prank, so we immediately looked up to the sky thinking that maybe there's a firecracker. I didn't realize the severity of the situation until everyone started ducking down and screaming to get down and run. Where were you exactly in relation to Kirk? I was a few feet away. So he has a ground floor and there's three steps going up. So I was on the third step. What exactly, Tiana, did you hear? I immediately heard. So I heard the gunshot go off, and that was when I started hearing a bunch of people started crying and screaming to get down. I was terrified. When did you realize you had heard a gunshot? It was into the second question. It took me a really long time to process because it just happened so suddenly. I mean, I didn't even Know that he got shot at that moment until I started running inside and started hearing people scream. What did you see? You hear the gunshot. At first you don't realize exactly what it is. That's very common because I don't think, Tiana, that you're mind, you're not expecting to hear a gunshot. You might think, oh, that was a car backfiring, or it was a helicopter or something else. There's fireworks. That's what people typically think, because in their world, they're not used to hearing gunshots ringing out at the moment. You heard what you now know to be a gunshot. What did you see? He was. He got shot on his left side, and I was sitting on his right side of him. So I was really shocked once I heard he got shot because I personally did not see anything since it happened so fast for me. As I was running back into the building, I kept turning back to see if anything did happen to him, but I at first didn't even see him fall down once. I like, after looking up at this guy and then looking down, I didn't see him fall down or anything immediately. So when I started running back in and I looked back, I didn't see anything else. When you did look back, what was there to see? It was too much. There was too many crowds. Also, my vision was hazy because I was crying too much. Unfortunately, when you think back on how close you were, if he had missed Kirk, he could have shot someone in the crowd. Have you considered that I was actually talking about this to my friend? Because the thing is that if I was sitting a bit closer to him, I would have been shot along with. Sorry. Along with my friend who I really care about. So I was worried about that. What is your take on the hatred that must have led the shooter to pull the trigger? Just put so many people, including yourself, in mortal danger. Over what? Because you don't like what somebody says. It's just. It's unbelievable to me because I have many friends from a lot of different political backgrounds, and I would never consider harming absolutely anyone just because of what they believe in. It's. It's really. It's sad to think that there are people out there that want to harm others that don't have their same opinion. Are you a student there? Yes, I am. I'm currently a junior right now. What are you studying? I'm studying marketing. Tiana, when you went to the rally, did you feel completely safe? Personally, I did. I mean, I love my school. I personally felt really safe being there. Nothing in the past has ever happened. I personally didn't think that we needed a lot of security measures until this happened, so I was really shocked. Tiana Lau joining us. Who was there at the time Charlie Kirk was gunned down? You stated that everyone began running once they realized it had been a gunshot that rang out. What did everyone think had happened? You stated, I turned back to see if anything happened to Charlie. And you couldn't tell because he was mobbed. Why did you think it was about shooting Charlie? So I. Yeah, of course, no one in my row immediately knew what happened because there were so many people in the front. So I didn't know what happened until people started ducking down. I also didn't truly know if he got shot until I got into the building and people started calling their families, saying that he got shot in the chest and then the neck. I was hearing a bunch of misinformation, but I didn't think that it was anything severe because I didn't know exactly what happened. You stated that there was a lot of confusion. No one knew what was happening, and you actually think your brain kind of blacked out. Describe that. Yes, I also completely forgot what the person asking the question was even talking about. Right before the gunshot went off, I was just thinking all in my head, really, was, is there going to be a second gunshot go off? I felt responsible for my friend since I invited her to this event, so that's really all I was thinking about. But I was also concerned for the safety of others on campus. You took cover in a classroom. What happened? Yes, it was during that time that we started going up to the second floor, started going to any classroom that we could see because there was a professor there guiding us. It was in there that me and my friend started crying our eyes out. And we started just going into this corner because there's a bunch of other students in there that didn't know what was going on. They just knew that they were in lockdown. And that was when a professor started coming in and comforting us and telling us that it was okay, that we're safe because they caught a suspect. And I thought, yeah, the suspect must be the right person. I felt safe in that moment. And even though it wasn't the right suspect, in the end, it still provided me comfort until the moment we left campus. What went through your mind when you realized the shooter was still out there? That the old guy that got out of the front row area was the wrong suspect? Yeah, I was in disbelief. I felt very unsafe. I thought, who could this person be. I mean, it is possible that he could be a student that I have crossed paths with. You never know who it is. It could be my neighbor. I wish I did feel very unsafe throughout the remaining days. What kind of security was set up when Kurt was speaking? Yes, so I knew previously, because of my friend's job, that there were going to be about eight bodyguards at the scene protecting him, and I thought that that would be enough. But once I started going in, I also previously signed up to go to this event, and that was. And I was expecting for them to check for tickets, maybe check our bags, but I just walked in and they handed me a flyer asking, hi, there's going to be an event today. Do you know about this event? And I said, yeah, I am. I actually signed up, and I was shocked about how easy it was to get in. No one checked our bags. There was no other security measures that I could see. It was very open before the gunshot rang out. What was the atmosphere? What was the mood in the crowd? I thought that for the most part, it was still pretty peaceful. There were a few audio issues, so there were people on around my row that were screaming to make the volume higher since we couldn't hear the person asking the question. But other than that, it wasn't so bad. I mean, for me, it seemed like a peaceful debate. Everyone was still, for the most part, cheery. There was nothing that I could see. You said earlier that the atmosphere was very happy and peaceful. Yes, I. In my opinion, I know that at these types of events, there's always going to be someone, I don't know, rioting or something like that. I did see some students, a part of the LGBTQ community at the top balcony. But even we're very peaceful. No one else was insulting each other. To me, everything was fine. What do you make of the aftermath when people are making jokes about Kurt getting murdered? Yes, I do get pretty sensitive about this subject because I do have some friends that have been celebrating about this. To me, it doesn't matter who it is. I feel personally connected to this event now because of course, I was there, but I. I don't think that we should be celebrating about anyone's death. I understand if they do not agree with his views, but it doesn't matter who it is. My neighbor may be someone that I also do not agree with, but I would not be celebrating anyone's death. This is a very sensitive time, especially for those that were traumatized by this event. Tiana. Especially in light of the fact that as close as you were to the front. If he had been off or if the wind had blown a different way with a gust of wind. I mean, anything that could have been you or your friend. When your associates, your colleagues make fun of this, do you just ignore it or do you confront them? Yes, when I'm currently not speaking to them right now, especially when I was really sensitive, since I was there. So I did tell them that. It really hurts me personally, because I told them specifically as well. If I was in that situation, if I was shot, would they be celebrating about my death? Because I know that we do not agree on a lot of points, and it just. It really hurt me that they were speaking badly about him, especially since, yeah, I was there. But, yeah, that's all I have to say about that. Just not. Tiana, how did this affect your friend that you invited? How is. How is she? Yeah, so she is an international student. She was definitely crying alongside me a lot more than me because she has never thought that this would happen at her school. She came here looking for a better life, and the fact that this happened to her in a foreign country without her parents to call it really impacted her greatly. But fortunately, we have each other, so we can support each other. Question, Tiana, are you seeing a counselor about this? Because what you're describing is a traumatic response to what you saw. When I became a crime victim, I never sought counseling, ever. Looking back, I should have, but I think you should consider it. I know. I'm sorry, I'm currently not, but because I didn't think that it was going to be this bad until I started seeing the videos replay again. So I think I will seek out some mental health services. So thank you for your concern. Now, I happen to be watching Charlie. I can't say I saw blood. I can't say I saw him get shot. But as soon as that shot went out, he fell back into his left and everybody hit the deck. Charlie has some security in front of him, but you got the sense that the shot came kind of sweet straight at him. And I don't think there would be many vantage points too far away because he was under an awning. From our friends at Fox. This is a father of two, had a little girl, a little boy, wife Erica. He was engaging with the audience. He was throwing hats and other things to the audience, getting them kind of excited and pumped up before he spoke like him or. Or hate him. He's a man media figure. He is. He was magnetic. This is not the best of us. We've got to do more to stop this from happening. Conflicting reports about who tipped off police as to the identity of Charlie Kirk's shooter. This is what we know somebody, and this happens a lot. It happened with the crazy Boston bomber, it happened with others. Somebody this close recognizes even a little tilt of the head, which nobody else would do. And somebody that was very close to him said, that's him. Thursday afternoon, Matt Robinson looked at the FBI photos of Charlie Kirk's alleged shooter. He was shocked to recognize his son. When he arrives home, Matt Robinson confronts his son and Tyler Robinson confesses. The father encourages Robinson to turn himself in, but the 22 year old says he would rather kill himself earlier. Sound from our friends at Fox and Friends, straight out to Joseph Scott Morgan. And joining us, professor forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet, Death investigator and star of Body Bags Hit podcast series. Joe Scott. I, like you, would automatically recognize my son even if he had on sunglasses and a hat. And I imagine all of his friends would too. Yeah, you know, you're with, you're with your child day in and day out. You see them in, in different arrays of clothing, right? Eyeglasses, hats, T shirts, jackets, heavy jackets. Hell, I even think that if I saw my son in a ski mask, I could probably, you know, parse out who he was. So, yeah, this is not, you know, to us, this guy is a phantom. You know, when you see these images on cctv. But the reality is, is that you go home, those that are most intimate with you, that know you very well, they're going to recognize you. We are hearing tonight, Joe Scott, that DNA deoxyribonucleic acid ties the suspect to Kirk's murder. When I heard about a towel being wrapped around the weapon or with the weapon, I mean, that is a perfect conduit for DNA. Now, originally you and I discussed possibility that there was no exit wound, that the bullet was lodged in the body of Kirk. There's no good way to discuss this, but the ballistics plus as to the body having the bullet in it would be, it could be a direct match to the gun, which we'll explain in a moment. But first, let's talk about the towel and what that means to the investigation. Everyone. This, as we were learning, there was a handwritten note that has been, that was found. I don't know what's happened to it seemingly has disappeared. But the note apparently said, I've got an opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk and he was going to do it. I'm going to take the opportunity. But Right now. DNA. Joe Scott towel. Explain. Yeah. Dig this. So if this guy brought the towel with him and he's got this weapon wrapped in it. Hey, Nancy, if we could go back to that shot of the roof where we think he was positioned, guess what he's laying in up there? Direct sunlight. Gravel. Guess what. Yes. Yes. Guess what happens when we're in direct sunlight. Sweating. This is not. You know, there's a high possibility, high probability that the DNA that they're talking about on the towel, it ain't touch DNA. This might be complete strand because it may have transferred from sweat or grease off of his hands. Oil. We, you know, produce oil on our fingertips. One other little interesting tidbit is that a screwdriver was also found, but yet that was found on the roof. That could be touch. I don't know, might be sweat. Why would you need a screwdriver? Well, I think that perhaps to make any kind of adjustment or possibly to try to disassemble this weapon. It starts like any other night. The glass of red, the cozy blanket. Then the drop. The stain so dark, so stubborn, it might as well have been a crime scene. But this isn't your average couch. This is Anna Bay. Fully washable, unspeakably comfortable, and ready for whatever your life, your kids, or your ex throws at it. And here's the kicker. Starting at just $6.99, you can make sure your sofa isn't part of the problem. Fully washable, stain resistant, and built to hide even the darkest defenses. Right now, get up to 60% off, because no one should have to live with a stain that won't quit. Annabe the only mystery you won't be losing. Sleepover shop WashablesOfAs.com today, that's WashablesOfAs.com stop settling for weak sound. It's time to level up your game and bring the boom. Hit the town with the ultra durable LG X Boom portable speaker and enjoy vibrant sound wherever you go. Elevate your listening experience to new heights, because, let's be real, your music deserves it. The future of sound is now with LG Xboom. And for a limited time, save 25%@LG.com with code fall25. Bring the boom. Xboom. You think you know snap judgment? Yes. It's on NPR. It's a podcast. It's storytelling. But snap has gone deeper, stranger, wilder. We've taken you places that the New York Times, the Rolling Stones, the Ambies, the Webbies, the Gracies, all stood up for. Welcome to The Podcast hall of Fame Glenn Washington award winning stories, original beats, soundscapes that drop you into the heart of the story. Find Snap Judgment from KQED every Thursday. Wherever you get your podcast, mint is still $15 a month for premium wireless. And if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should. One, it's $15 a month. Two, seriously, it's $15 a month. Three, no big contracts. Four, I use it fine. My mom uses it. Are you, are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a try. @mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 per three month plan, $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com crime stories with Nancy Grace. To Chris McDonough joining us, director of Cold Case foundation, former homicide detective, worked over 300 homicides and now is the star of the interview room on YouTube. Chris, think about what Morgan just said. He even thought to bring a screwdriver to adjust the shot. For anyone that hasn't had to deal with ballistics like everyone on this panel basically has had to, other than Tiana. When you're taking a, let's just call it a sniper shot, a long shot, you have to take into account a wind gust, you have to take into account, believe it or not, pros take into account the temperature, you take into account movement on the part of the target. Long story short, he had the wherewithal McDonough to bring a screwdriver with him. Bye bye mental defect defense. That's not happening. He came prepared. Explain what he was going to do with that screwdriver. Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. And it does go towards, you know, his specific intent to pull the trigger. And that screwdriver is used typically with a scope. And you would put that screwdriver up and you can adjust, you know, for that problem of wind velocity, the target moving, et cetera. So he was very well prepared. It goes to the intent, the intent to Dr. Sue Kornbluth joining us, veteran analyst, author of Building Self Esteem, owner of Dr. Sue and you'd Dr. Sue, question to you, the intent to do an act. I mean, the guy came armed to the hilt with a screwdriver to adjust the the scope. Yes, Nancy, it does seem that he's had had intent here, that this was premeditated beforehand, that he was planning to do this and that he had all intentions of going up there and killing Charlie Kirk. This could have been planned and plotted for a very long time, as we do know, Nancy, that he did have access to, to firearms as we have learned throughout the media for a very long time. So I don't have doubt that there was intent to kill and harm here, guys. We are learning so much as we go to air. Back to you, Joe, Scott Morgan and I want to do this very quickly. I don't want to get gone four on ballistics, but you have performed so many death investigations where a bullet is still lodged in the victim's body. Yep. There's no good way. There's no positive when you're talking about a murder case. However, when you're speaking probatively about what do you need to prove your case. To have the actual murder bullet is very helpful because it can be linked back like a fingerprint to that particular weapon that that bullet had to be fired from that weapon. Not just another ought six like it, but that particular ought six. Now I don't want to go into how the tester performed at the crime lab and you know, but I want to talk about getting, getting that match off a bullet fragment because the bullet will be deformed after the shooting, most likely going through human tissue. If there's an exit wound and it hits the ground or it hits a hard wall, it will further deform the bullet. How do you get a bullet a ballistics match? When the bullet is a fragment or has been deformed, you have to retrieve the most robust portion of that bullet that still remains. And you have to go to great lengths to do that many times. If that round struck a bony structure within the body, it can deform. As a matter of fact, it can fragment. If that round hit anything like you mentioned, like a hard surface externally, they would have been sweeping that area with metal detectors out there. So you have to test fire the weapon they have in hand with fresh ammunition and compare it against that round that you compare. The trick is, or that they recovered. The trick is, do you have enough of that round remaining that you can do a comparative analysis with counseling, gang violence. Oh my God. We've got a suspect in custody. The man who allegedly shot Charlie Kirk. 22 year old Utah resident Tyler Robinson. We've got him in custody, turning him himself in. The alleged shooter is actually 22 years old. He shoots and then he's off the building. Then we see him limping as he's walking through saying, hey, I got video of a guy running through the backyard. What more have we learned as we go to air tonight? Listen, he is observed on video in a plain maroon T shirt, light colored shorts, a black hat with a white logo and light colored shoes. When encountered in person by investigators in Washington county on September 12th in the early morning hours, Robinson was observed in consistent clothing with those surveillance images. That's one of our friends at Fox, Sydney Sumner. So he had a wardrobe change? Yes, that's what we are hearing. He arrived on campus in different clothing, changed into what we see in those surveillance images, then changed back into the other outfit and that's what he was wearing when he was arrested. That's one thing we had discussed immediately after Kirk's shooting. To veterans lawyer Eric Faddis joining us partner Varner Faddis, Elite legal former felony prosecutor Eric, that just adds onto the state's case for premeditation. He actually had a wardrobe change. He thought that much because we didn't understand how he blended in on campus if he's dressed like a ninja, all in black with a face covering, a hat, sunglasses, all in black from head, neck to to wrist to toe. But he didn't blend in that way because he brought a change of clothes. Now this may not mean anything to a non lawyer, but it means a lot to me. He's extremely probative. He thought it out, he planned it out that much that he knew he had to change clothes to blend in. What about it? Yeah, Nancy, that's exactly right. So the change of clothes goes to premeditation. It shows that this was done after deliberation. These are all elements of first degree murder. And on top of that, it undercuts any potential mental health defense because. Because in insanity offense he would have to show that he didn't know what he was doing was wrong. But he brought a change of clothes so that he could conceal his identity and get away with it. That shows he did know what he, what he was doing. He had a conscious objective. He had the knowledge in terms of his actions. And that's going to be a. Well, another thing. Look at it. Chris McDonough, you've combed the scene. By the way, those shots right there from our friends over at TMZ, check it out. 8:07am he looks like a college student. 11:49, he's even put on jeans. So when he kneels down on that gravelly roof, it won't hurt his knees. I mean he really thought this out. Chris McDonough, tell us what you learned at the scene. Yes, Nancy, at the scene you can clearly see where how he got up to the roof number one and then his sniper's nest was a straight shot right at Charlie Kirk. And then when you see these photographs of the surveillance footage from the neighborhood, he has changed those clothes. So it's an indication that he came early. He apparently scoped out the area he was going to go. What I could see while standing there, I was up on a perch looking at where he was firing from. It was, it was an easy shot, to be honest with you. And then when he came off, he ran across the road there and dropped his rifle into the woods and then fled up into that neighborhood. Those shots right there, from our friends over at tmz, when you were on campus, what did you observe? Well, a couple of things. It was an easy shot from the location where he had chosen to shoot from the center courtyard of that campus is a very closed area. And so you can't get there unless you go up on top of a roof. And the authorities had shut that down. And so he had to have gone and, you know, scoped out exactly the area where he was going to go. You keep saying it was an easy shot, an easy shot. Many people do not believe 200 yards is an easy shot, McDonough. Well, it's about 150 yards approximately, from my observation. And it was a straight on shot. You could tell that he, if he hit Charlie in the center mass, that is right here in the center mass look like fragmented, which you know, Doc Morgan was talking about. And it hit him in the, in the, the carotid artery and that caused a bleed out almost immediately. You know, it seems like he planned and plotted so much but then drove right up in his car in his vehicle. Easily traceable. Listen. Investigators reviewed additional video footage from UVU surveillance and identified Robinson arriving on UVU campus in a gray Dodge Challenger at approximately 8:29am on September 10th. Just got Morgan. Let me throw a technical legal term at you, idiot. I mean the towel. After all his planning and plotting and scheming and gnashing his teeth and twitching his tail and joking about Kirk online idiot drives up in his gray Dodge Challenger, a muscle car, surprise surprise. Did he not hear anything about Brian Kohberger and his white Elantra that was spotted by everybody and their sister and their long lost cousin. A white Elantra was seen over and over at the crime scene, speeding away from the crime scene, speeding past the 7:11 that McDonough and I stated out, caught on video. But did he not hear anything about Brian Kohberger? And then there's the other piece of crap, Rex. Heuermann and his vehicle. Heuermann parked his vehicle outside of his home forever. Everybody knew it was his. It was connected to the scene. His vehicle tied him to serial murders. So this guy, the Kirk suspect, he ain't all that in a bag of chips. What about it, Morgan? And listen to this. Just like Heuerman, just like Coburger, this vehicle that this person drove, this Challenger, is going to play in. It's going to have evidentiary value. Nancy, think about what you just said a few moments ago, with the planning and everything. He used this vehicle in order to not only transport himself, but probably transport this weapon. Any kind of ammo he had, any kind of tools that he may have used, any kind of prop to support the weapon, changes of clothes, everything. And yet he's leaving these breadcrumbs all the way along. These people are not the smartest in the world. They can kind of figure out the front end and kind of bounce off and get things done. But in the end, it's going to be their actions following the event that will always get them caught. Tonight we learn that the Kirk murder suspect was obsessed with furries. People that, for sexual reasons, like to pretend they're animals. That's a whole other can of worms. But can we deal with hard evidence? Listen. The messages also refer to engraving bullets and a mention of a scope and the rifle being unique. Messages from the contact, Tyler, also mentioned that he had changed outfits. Investigators noted inscriptions that had been engraved on casings found with the rifle. Inscriptions on a fired casing read, notices, bulges, capital O, W, O. What's this question mark? Inscriptions on the three unfired casings read, Read. Hey, fascist. Exclamation point, catch. Exclamation point. Up, arrow, symbol, right arrow and symbol. And three down arrow symbols. A second unfired casing read, oh, bella, chow, bella, chow, bella chow, chow, chow. And a third unfired casing, red. If you read this, you are gay. Lmao. And that from our friends at Fox. And you are hearing the Utah governor, Spencer Cox, speaking. You know what? I hardly know where to start, but Sidney Sumner, crime stories, investigative reporter, boy from the suburbs, silver spoon in his mouth. What Mommy and daddy still pay in his car Note is talking about how he hates fascism. What? What does he know about fascism? And who the hate gave him a gun to start with. But let's just start with the page he took out of Luigi Mangione's notebook. He took the time to engrave the bullets, take down Mangione. He makes me sick. Sidney, tell me about the engravings on the bullets. Yeah. So each bullet was engraved very similar to Brian Thompson shooting the first one that Governor Cox had a hard time reading out loud. It's a meme. It's like role playing that's commonly used among, like, furries and weeaboos. Those are. It's a term for white people who are very interested in Japanese culture in kind of an odd way. And we see this on sites like 14. A weeaboo is but a furry crosses all socioeconomic boundaries. But Weibo, yes, that's obsession with Japanese culture. But. Okay, you're talking about the engravings. Go ahead. Right? Yeah. So we see that kind of language on sites like 4chan, Reddit and Discord. So capital O, W O is actually an emoticon face. And this is one I don't really understand. I never really get what that face is trying to communicate. Let me explain it to you. It's when you notice an erect there. Do you understand that? Yes, I. I understand what is being said, but that face in particular just doesn't really do anything for me. But apparently it's supposed to communicate interest of a sexual nature, obviously paired with noticing someone's erection. So that's the first bullet. It has to do with furries. It's. It's role playing language. It's kind of an online meme. So this was clearly satirical to Robinson when he engraved that. Hold on. Sydney. Sidney. Sidney Sumner, crime stories. Sydney, this guy had way too much time on his hands. It's like Mangione. Please quit showing me Mangione's face. I don't want to see his $20,000 worth of orthodontia. Sydney, this guy, the Kirk shooter, obviously had way too much time on his hands. He is obsessed with furries. Okay, I'm not judging. I don't care what he does. But if he's got time to engrave bullets with sex talk and more, he's got way too much time on his hands. Did he work? Apparently so. So in addition to engraving bullets, he was a student at a technical college working on an electrical apprenticeship, and that also included field work. So we know that he was working on a large project with a team where was wiring a new apartment complex. So he did work, but somehow. Get this, Nancy. He also had over 2000 hours of video game streaming logged online, and that's only streaming, and that's over 10 years. But I did the math, and that is an hour a day playing video games at least. And that's only what he put. And that's just streaming, right? Okay, explain that, because a lot of people don't know the difference between playing and then what you put online. Explain. There he is crawling down the side of a building after murdering Charlie Kirk. A husband, a father. Explain Sydney, what we're talking about. Putting it online. So there are sites like Twitch is probably the most popular one. And this is where it's basically like having a social media account like an Instagram or YouTube. And. And when you go on Twitch, you're live streaming, so people are watching you play your game, whether it's an online game or something like Stardew Valley, which is much more comforting. But people can watch you as you play your game live and comment on what you're doing. Sid, Sid, Sid. I'm gonna circle back to you. This is something I don't understand. It starts like any other night. The glass of red, the cozy blanket. Then the drop. The stain so dark, so stubborn, it might as well have been a crime scene. But this isn't your average couch. This is Anna Bay. 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It's podcasts, it's storytelling. But snap has gone deeper, stranger, wilder. We've taken you places that the New York Times, the Rolling Stones, the Ambies, the Webbies, the Gracies, all stood up for. Welcome to the podcast hall of fame. Glenn Washington award winning stories, original beats, soundscapes that drop you into the heart of the story. Find Snap Judgment from kqed Every Thursday, wherever you get your podcast, big thank you to our partner making today's crime stories possible. It's Grand Canyon University, a private Christian university in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona. Grand Canyon University believes we are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. GCU believes in equal opportunity and that the American Dream starts with purpose. GCU equips you to serve others in ways that promote human flourishing and create a ripple effect of transformation for generations to come by putting others before yourself to glorify God. Whether your pursuit involves a bachelor's, master's, or Even doctoral degree, GCU's online on campus and hybrid learning environments are designed to help you achieve your unique academic, personal and professional goals. With over 340 academic programs as of September 2024, GCU meets you where you are and provides a path to help you fulfill your dreams. The pursuit to serve others is yours. Let it flourish. Find your purpose at Grand Canyon University. Private, Christian, affordable visit gcu.edu. thank you, Grand Canyon University, for being our partner. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Just got Morgan. Who has time to watch somebody else playing a video game? First of all, who has time to play 2000 hours worth of video games? That said, but who has time to watch his screen that he's posting of himself playing a video game? 2000 hours? Yeah. Session online with furries. Yeah. I have no point of reference for that sort of thing, but I can tell you this. This guy's very visual. And let me tell you why. Anybody that would engrave on these live rounds. Nancy, let me throw this out to you. I got to tell you, you might not like me for saying this. I have no idea. But I got to tell you, I think this guy wanted to be caught. Why is he going to leave a message behind and not just once, but on all of these rounds? Drop the weapon, Joe Scott Morgan, who's talking right now? That's such bs. Let me just clarify one thing. This is a yes, no. Are you a shrink? Because I think you're a death investigator. But are you? Did you secretly go to night school and get your psychiatry degree? Med school plus, did you? No, but I've come around a few that I thought may have. That was a single response. You're on cross right now. Let's go to the actual shrink. Dr. Sue Corn Blues. It's not necessarily that he, quote, wanted to be caught. How about just straight out at your rear end arrogance that you're smarter than everybody in the room, that you're not gonna get Caught all your friends, furry or otherwise, are not gonna rat you out. They're gonna consider you a hero. That's why he put a message on a bullet to murder a father of two. I don't care who agrees with Kirk or disagrees with Kirk. Like him, love him, hate him, don't care. This guy had the arrogance, the hatred in his heart to put a message on the bullet decrying fascism. And about his wannabe erection. Really? You know what? Go to hell. Go to hell. That's not wanting to get caught. You are an A hole, Grade A, number one, red and rashy. What about that diagnosis, Corn Bluth? I think you're spot on, Nancy. And by the way, most of these people that burner people like this want that hero mentality out there after. That's why they carve their initials on it. So that the world can know that he did this for all the people that hate Charlie Kirk. He did this for all of them. It's a sick mentality and it's an obsessive mentality. And for me, Nancy, he has lived in a world of fantasy. Hence, the furries come in because the group of people that belong to furries, a lot of them live in a fantasy world. Also, the video games that he was playing was in a fantasy world. So all of this goes together in a very nice psychological package that this kid, well, not kid, adult, was suffering from something, but it was premeditated. He wanted to be the hero and probably has some kind of psychological disorder that is going on. But we shall see. Don't even tune up, doctor. About an insanity defense or some kind of psychological defect. He knew what he was doing. And under our jurisprudence, the test is the old MacNaughton test brought to the US from Great Britain as part of our common law. Did he know right from wrong at the time of the incidents? And the answer to that is H E double L, Y E S. He changed clothes to us so as to avoid detection. He covered his tracks. He parked far away. He hid his weapon. He had to go back and retrieve his weapon. He tried to cover his face. Everything indicates he knew what he was doing was wrong and he tried to hide it afterwards. That is consciousness of guilt. Case closed. And to back me up, he's no idiot that fell off the turnip truck in the sense that he had a lot up here. He had a high IQ and really good grades. That doesn't negate the fact that he is one arrogant sob. Watch this. To receive the resident Presidential Scholarship from Utah State University. The value of the this scholarship is approximately $32,000. This scholarship is available for four years or eight semesters. Tyler Robinson graduates from Pine Hill High School, securing a scholarship to his mother's alma mater, Utah State University. With his top 1% ACT scores, Robinson packs up for freshman year in Logan, Utah, but returns home just a semester later. Robinson continues living with his family, pursuing an electrician's apprenticeship at Dixie Technical College. Robinson and his brothers seem to have a special interest in guns, pictured at several gun shows. If you know or think you know anything about Charlie Kirk's shooting, the state is still putting together a case. The case is going forward. You may think your information is insignificant, that it may not matter. It matters. Please dial 801-579-1400 or go online to tips.FBI.gov repeat 801-579-1400 we remember an American hero, Sergeant Thomas Craig, Phoenix PD killed in the line of duty, leaving behind his widow Lynn and six children. American hero sergeant Thomas Craig Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye foreign Stop settling for weak sound. It's time to level up your game and bring the boom. 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