Colonial Parkway Murders Update_ New DNA Links and the CODIS Question

Summary

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: Colonial Parkway Murders Update – New DNA Links and the CODIS Question
Date: January 25, 2026
Host: Cheryl McCollum (filling in as moderator), with guests Bill Thomas (brother of victim Kathy Thomas) and Kristen Dilley (co-host, “Mind Over Murder” podcast)

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Overview of Episode Theme

This gripping episode dives into the ongoing investigation of the Colonial Parkway murders—eight (now ten+) mysterious killings from 1986 to 1989 in Virginia. The focus: the identification of new victims and a major suspect, Alan Wade Wilmer Sr., and a heated discussion over the bureaucratic and systemic obstacles hindering justice, notably the exclusion of Wilmer’s DNA from CODIS (national DNA database). Bill Thomas and Kristen Dilley offer an insider and advocate’s perspective, reflecting on investigative progress, justice for the victims, and the emotional toll of stonewalling by authorities.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Backgrounds & the Cases

• Bill Thomas recounts his sister Kathy’s life and legacy:
  • “You meet her, you would never forget her ... She had bright red hair and bright blue eyes and ... peaches and cream complexion.” (Bill Thomas, 04:13–04:56)
  • Kathy’s trailblazing years at the U.S. Naval Academy, persistence, and impact on her family.
• Kristen Dilley’s partnership with Bill:
  • How their collaboration and podcasting work (“Mind Over Murder”) have brought national attention to the case.
    • “It has been ... not just a pleasure, but an honor ... to help these families ... move this case forward.” (Kristen Dilley, 07:36–08:10)

2. Breakthroughs: DNA Evidence and New Victims

• Identification of Alan Wade Wilmer Sr. as a primary suspect:
  • Wilmer, a waterman from Lancaster County, was linked via DNA to the 1987 murder of Robin Edwards and David Knobling and later to Teresa Howell and Laurie Ann Powell, expanding the known victim count. (Bill Thomas, 09:32–12:13)
• The concept of “Parkway adjacent” cases:
  • Kristen details that Laurie Ann Powell’s case—previously not part of the main eight—is now DNA linked to Wilmer, reinforcing broader suspicions of Wilmer’s reach.
    • "We got confirmation that Lorianne Powell had been linked to Wilmer via DNA ... That was the first ... we’d heard that she had been sexually assaulted." (Kristen Dilley, 13:38–14:47)
  • This revelation brings the count to at least 10 probable victims, and possibly more.

3. CODIS Controversy: Why Isn’t Wilmer’s DNA There?

• Despite Wilmer being posthumously identified as the perpetrator through DNA, his genetic profile is not in the national CODIS database—a fact Cheryl McCollum calls “disgusting” (15:27–15:41).
• Bill Thomas’ explanation and outrage:
  • "Because Alan Wade Wilmer Sr. … had never been charged with a crime, so his DNA is not in the CODIS system." (Bill Thomas, 16:04–17:17)
  • The hosts and guests agree this bureaucratic technicality fails the families and hinders connecting Wilmer to other cold cases.

4. Stonewalling by the FBI: Frustration and Advocacy

• Communication breakdown: Bill and Kristen express anger and exasperation over the FBI’s refusal to provide updates on Kathy’s case.
  • "Today's FBI ... refuse to speak to us, and I mean literally refuse to speak to us." (Bill Thomas, 20:00–21:35)
  • The only FBI communication is a monthly call from Victim Services with no new information.
• Contrast with Virginia State Police:
  • The VSP’s proactive evidence testing and transparency are praised.
    • "They're actually going out, applying for sexual assault kit initiative grants ... and sending out evidence ... they're getting results." (Bill Thomas, 23:00–24:05)

5. The Search for Further Answers

• Outstanding evidence questions:
  • Cheryl asks about the hairs found in Kathy’s hand and the viability of DNA testing—even after decades and confusion about the evidence’s existence.
    • "They’ve had so many different stories ... I finally blew up at one point, and my mom would not be proud of me for this." (Bill Thomas, 30:32–30:48)
  • Noteworthy: Kathy and Becky’s rape kits were destroyed as medical waste, on FBI orders, 8 years after the murders.
    • "They burned my sister and Becky Dowski’s rape kits as medical waste per order of the FBI." (Bill Thomas, 31:01–31:23)
• Advocacy for institutional change:
  • Kristen argues the burden should not be on families to press for DNA comparisons, legislation, and investigative action:
    • "It should not be up to the families ... to push forward for legislation and for change ... We should not be the ones driving this." (Kristen Dilley, 35:08–35:41)
  • Cheryl calls for a Wilmer task force or broader multi-state cold case review.

6. Community Support and Lasting Resolve

• Bill’s determination:
  • Cheryl: “Bill ain’t going nowhere.”
    • "If it were me, I would probably send him an email. I might call him. Heck, I might knock on the door ... and see if you can't explain the behavior in the past. But tell him what you're going to do going forward." (Cheryl McCollum, 38:17–38:38)
• Closing Statement:
  • “The delays are just unconscionable at this point. This can't take years every single time.” — Bill Thomas (quoted by Cheryl McCollum, 39:09–39:12)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Kathy Thomas:

  • “The reason why Kathy Thomas succeeded at everything she did ... was because she worked harder than anyone you’d ever met to see things through.” — Bill Thomas (06:12–06:55)

• On the DNA match and investigation pace:

  • “We have four victims ... positively linked to Alan Wade Wilmer Sr... The question now becomes ... when are we going to get answers on how many of the other Colonial Parkway murders cases are linked to him and how many other potential victims are out there?” — Kristen Dilley (14:09–14:47)

• On official disregard:

  • “There is no excuse in an FBI agent at any level not responding to a victim's family. And I'm going to say it again. There is no excuse.” — Cheryl McCollum (18:49–19:27)

• CODIS frustration:

  • “Why are we protecting the rights of a dead serial killer over the rights of all of the families ... who've been waiting 36 to 39 years for answers?” — Bill Thomas (16:18–17:51)

• On evidence mishandling:

  • “They burned my sister and Becky Dowski’s rape kits as medical waste per order of the FBI. You can't make this stuff up.” — Bill Thomas (31:14–31:23)

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Important Segment Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------------|------------------| | Kathy Thomas' background and legacy | 04:07–06:55 | | Discovery & expansion of Wilmer’s victim count | 09:32–14:47 | | Introduction of Laurie Ann Powell (new victim) | 12:13–14:47 | | CODIS system issues & Wilmer DNA controversy | 15:25–17:51 | | FBI communication and support shortcomings | 18:49–21:35 | | Praise for Virginia State Police's efforts | 23:00–24:05 | | Evidence mishandling & rape kit destruction | 30:32–31:28 | | Calls for community action and institutional change| 35:08–39:12 |

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Episode Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is raw, candid, and at times emotional—reflecting the exhaustion of families fighting for answers and justice. There’s appreciation for dedicated investigators but trenchant criticism of institutional complacency, especially at the federal level. The hosts and guests are determined, pragmatic, and at times darkly humorous (“my name is Nancy Grace ... No, I’m just kidding”). The dialogue is a call for advocacy—insisting on action, transparency, and meaningful reform.

This episode serves as a thorough primer on the complexities and heartaches of cold case investigations, the power of DNA, and the pitfalls of bureaucracy. It makes clear that progress, while slow, is owed to unrelenting family and advocate vigilance.

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Transcript

[Cheryl McCollum]

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[Bill Thomas]

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[Kristen Dilley]

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[Cheryl McCollum]

Well good evening y'.

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[Cheryl McCollum]

I tell you what, y' all better hang on because tonight we're going to have a conversation and it's going to have a little bit of fireworks for me because I am disgusted. I'm fed up and I'm going to say it. I try to always be glass half full. I try to be positive. I try to champion, but right is right and sometimes you gotta call it what it is. And that's what I'm gonna do today. So tonight, please help me welcome back to Zone seven Bill and Kristen. How are ya? Because we've had another connection to the Colonial Parkway.

[Kristen Dilley]

We're doing pretty good, Mac. Thank you for having us. We appreciate being on Zone 7 as always.

[Cheryl McCollum]

Are you kidding? It's our honor. And I'll tell you, I'm wearing my badass bracelet right now that you gave me at CrimeCon and I appreciate you.

[Bill Thomas]

Oh, good.

[Cheryl McCollum]

And Bill, like, you know, you and I have had so many conversations and I just want to remind everybody that I've worked with thousands. A victim job. Never ever have I worked with somebody that said, what would you do? And I gave him a few things and within 30 minutes they were doing it. Ever Bill Thomas, don't let no grass grow under his feet. And then he hooks up with this sidekick and I think she catapulted him into a whole universe that he wasn't expecting to happen. But together, if you've ever had an opportunity to listen to Mind Over Murder, they just work, they just fit and they compliment each other and they utilize their strengths. And I just wanted to tell you it's a, it's a beautiful friendship to watch.

[Bill Thomas]

Oh, thank you.

[Cheryl McCollum]

So, Bill, tell us a little bit, just for anybody that is brand new, about your sister Kathy.

[Bill Thomas]

Well, my sister Kathy and her girlfriend Rebecca Dowski are the first two victims in the so called Colonial Parkway murders, which happened from 1986 to 1989 in and around Williamsburg, Virginia, where Kristen Dilley's from. And my sister Kathy is one of these people. You meet her, you would never forget her. She is smart and funny and dynamic. She had bright red hair and bright blue eyes and an expression I don't often hear applied to anybody else but Kathy. She had a peaches and cream complexion is the way it's been described to me.

[Cheryl McCollum]

Oh.

[Bill Thomas]

But at the same time, she wasn't a girly girl. She was incredibly dynamic and hardworking. She was an honors graduate from, from our high school, Lowell High School up in Massachusetts. And then she surprised the rest of the family by announcing at a family dinner that she wanted to go to the Naval Academy. And this was at a time when the service academies, including Annapolis, were just permitting women to attend and graduate from Annapolis. So Kathy was in the second class with women at the United States Naval Academy. So she's very much a pioneer. Now she's following in my Family's footsteps. Our dad, Joe Thomas, who died a few years ago as a 1953 graduate of the Naval Academy. And then our older brother, Richard, graduated in 1975. And then Kathy, who's six years younger than Richard, graduated from the United States Naval Academy in 1981 with the second group of women to graduate from Annapolis.

[Cheryl McCollum]

Impressive and, like you said, dynamic. You're not going to forget her.

[Bill Thomas]

No, no. No way. She was an amazing person. She was funny and smart and optimistic and incredibly hardworking. The reason why Kathy Thomas succeeded at everything she did during her short 27 years on the planet was because she worked harder than anyone you'd ever met to see things through. So it didn't matter whether it was academics in high school or at the Naval Academy or athletics again, both in high school and at Annapolis, she worked harder than anyone you ever met, and nothing ever stopped her. She just kept going and going.

[Cheryl McCollum]

Well, that runs deep in the Thomas family. I've seen it in you. There ain't no quitting you. I've seen you go after things and meet people and try things and demand things. It's been unbelievable. And, you know, Kristen, when y' all teamed up, y' all hit it on a level I have not seen. But you helped Bill, I think, tremendously, make sure that people one knew about the Colonial Parkway murders because a lot of people had never heard of it. And then you made sure that not only did y' all hit the media and podcasts and magazines and tv, but y' all started a podcast.

[Kristen Dilley]

You know, I have Bill to thank for encouraging me to step out of my comfort zone and do a podcast. It is not the middle of life, second job that I ever thought I would have. And I'm assuming both of you probably feel the same way, because podcasting kind of snuck up on all of us. But, you know, I have Bill to thank for the bounty that I have around me, the wonderful friends that I've made, and the difference that I feel I can make in this case. And it has been, you know, not just a pleasure, but an honor to be able to, you know, serve the families in this case, this way. With Bill, it's. It's been, I think, probably the. The most excellent thing that I've done with my life so far. And I do think that our partnership, like, on the surface, it doesn't seem like a woman in her 40s and a gentleman of a certain age. I won't spill your age, Bill. Should get along as well as we do and work as well as we do. But, you know, I consider Bill one of my closest friends. I talk to him almost every day, and there's nothing that we don't share. And so I think our partnership works really well. And, you know, I'm thrilled to be able to help these families and move this case forward however I can.

[Cheryl McCollum]

Well, y' all have done that, and the case did get some traction. So a person of interest was named in some of the murders of the Colonial Parkway. Tell us about that. When this name came out, y' all get a call. It's not connected to Kathy yet, but this person comes up. They were able to connect them to some of the murders. Tell us about that.

[Bill Thomas]

You want me to jump in here?

[Kristen Dilley]

Yeah, go ahead, Bill. I think you're best suited to do this part.

[Bill Thomas]

Okay. So a couple of months before the announcement was made public, we had heard from sources inside the investigation that the Virginia State Police, who handle two of the double homicides in the Colonial Parkway murders, together with the FBI. But the FBI appeared to be taking a secondary role. They handle two other double homicides in the Colonial Parkway murder. So we're talking about eight young people so far, and there's more being added as we speak. We got the advance word that they were looking at two men, one deceased, one still alive at that time, who were watermen who lived up in Lancaster County, Virginia, which is about an hour and a half north of the area we associate with the Colonial Parkway murders, which is closer to Williamsburg. Now, as soon as they started telling us what they knew about these two potential suspects, my alarm bells started going off, because as soon as they said, two watermen from Lancaster County, Virginia, I said, wait a minute. These two guys were questioned in 1988, two years after my sister Kathy and Rebecca Dowski died, and right in the middle of the Colonial Parkway murders. So although I never knew their names, I remembered my father talking to me about this in 1988, about two watermen from Lancaster County. So what developed then was in January 2024, the Virginia State Police, along with the FBI and the Hampton Police Department, announced that a waterman named Alan Wade Wilmer Sr. Had been identified as the offender in one of the Colonial Parkway murders. And that's the 1987 murder of Robin Edwards and David Knobling. And they've also linked Wilmer via DNA to the murder of a woman we were not familiar with at that time. Her name was Teresa Lynn Spah Howell. We'll call her Teresa Howell for short. So there's. Now there's a third victim who was not considered part of the Colonial Parkway murders. So all of this was announced in January 2024. So coming up on two years ago now.

[Cheryl McCollum]

And Kristin, now there's a new connection. What is the new connection?

[Kristen Dilley]

Yeah, in about mid November, we received some information that the Virginia State Police was going to announce in a press conference that they had linked Laurie Ann Powell. And that is a name that we had heard before. I'll explain that connection in a second to Alan Wade Wilmer Sr. Via DNA. Now, alarm bells, as Bill said earlier, went off for both of us because Laurie Ann Powell is a name that we are both familiar with. For many years, the amount of time that Bill and I have worked together, we've considered the murders of Lorianne Powell and Brian Pettinger, which bookend the Robin Edwards and David Knobling case and the Keith Cullen, Cassandra Haley case. We've always considered them to potentially be a part of the Colonial Parkway murders. I termed the phrase Parkway adjacent cases. And we have always wondered and speculated on the podcast, could these two cases be, you know, done by the same person? Could they be connected to the cases of.

[Cheryl McCollum]

But you made great points. Not only are they bookend, you're talking about time, location, method.

[Kristen Dilley]

Yes.

[Cheryl McCollum]

Okay.

[Kristen Dilley]

Yes, exactly. Exactly. And so we got confirmation that Lorianne Powell had been linked to Wilmer via DNA. And it would turn out later that that DNA came from a sexual assault kit that had been taken on Laurie. And that was the first that any of us had heard that she had been sexually assaulted. So now we have four victims that. That are positively linked to Alan Wade Wilmer Sr. And that also brings our victim count from eight, the four original double homicides to 10, because now we have Terry Howell and Loriann Powell. So the question now becomes, with four people positively linked to Wilmer via DNA, when are we going to get answers on how many of the other Colonial Parkway murders cases are linked to him and how many other potential victims are out there? Because Bill and I both think he has many more victims than, you know, have even begun to be accounted for.

[Cheryl McCollum]

And I join you in that. I've said from day one, you're looking at double digits. So here's the deal. I'm going to start with something positive. This is great police work. They didn't get the first two victims and just let their foot off the gas. They didn't say, hey, we've identified this person, we've put his name out there. Great job. We're going to move on to something else. I think that's fantastic. I think that's exactly what should happen. You work it until you can connect every single victim that you possibly can.

[Kristen Dilley]

Agreed? Agreed.

[Cheryl McCollum]

Here comes my negative. Why in the world is Wilmer's DNA not in codis? Y' all heard me. Y' all heard me. I hope nobody just ran their car off the road. Wilmer's DNA is not in codis. Now, we know we have a sexual assault victim, Bill. We know nobody rapes one time. We know that. Why would they not insist that he go into CODIS when all these rape kits are being put into codis?

[Bill Thomas]

Well, here's the story as we understand it. And we're not saying we accept this, but this is what we're being told. Because Alan Wade Wilmer Sr. And we want to be careful. We always say senior because there is an Alan Wade Wilmer Jr. His son, who was a little kid when the murders took place. But we always differentiate because Wade the son is not the father. Because Alan Wade Wilmer Sr. Died in December 2017 of natural causes at his home up in Lancaster, Virginia. He had never been charged with a crime, so his DNA is not in the CODIS system. So we're being told by law enforcement, Virginia State Police and FBI that they cannot put Wilmer's DNA into the CODIS system. We think this is insane. I mean, why are we protecting the rights of a dead serial killer over the rights of all of the families in the Colonial Parkway murders who've been waiting 36 to 39 years for answers in this case? We think this is absolutely unacceptable. Strangely, the CODIS rules and regs are created at the state level, which is, again, something that we believe needs to be fixed. We think we should have one set of standards for the entire country. But right now, they cannot put Wilmer's DNA into codis. They can do a one to one comparison, but that's very slow and cumbersome. And we think that given how long the families have been waiting, the last thing we need is slow and cumbersome.

[Cheryl McCollum]

All right, let's go to part two. I got a buddy. And we used to laugh and joke back in the day that the next jobs we apply for, we're going to put people down as our references. Like Michelle Obama. You. You're never going to get Michelle Obama on the phone. You're not going to get to somebody close enough to her to verify whether or not she knows me.

[Bill Thomas]

Right? Right.

[Cheryl McCollum]

So we're just sitting around drinking wine, laughing like, these are going to be our retirement jobs and we're just going to Put ridiculous people that we know obviously don't know us, but nobody can ever verify that because a Michelle's too powerful and she's too busy, and you're not going to be able to get her.

[Bill Thomas]

It's a great idea.

[Cheryl McCollum]

Thank you. Thank you. So y' all look forward to those applications when I start putting them in next year. So here's the deal, y'.

[Bill Thomas]

All.

[Cheryl McCollum]

I will openly admit that Michelle Obama does not know me. I will admit that she is too busy to return an email if I were to send her one. There is no excuse in an FBI agent at any level not responding to a victim's family. And I'm going to say it again. There is no excuse. If Bill Thomas reaches out to you on the status of his sister's case, you ain't too busy, you ain't too powerful, your job ain't too important that you cannot respond to him.

[Bill Thomas]

That.

[Cheryl McCollum]

That is your job. That should be a requirement. So I'm going to tell you, I think everybody listening to me should email that person and say, hey, what's up with Kathy Thomas case? We should call you every day and find out what's up with Kathy Thomas case. You could not bother to call Bill back. Maybe you could call the 10,000 of us back.

[Kristen Dilley]

I love it. I think that's a great idea.

[Bill Thomas]

Well, unfortunately, today's FBI. Now, remember, we've been dealing with the FBI, my family now, for 39 years. We've been through different administrations, different heads of the FBI. And I'm not saying I would talk to the director of the FBI, but. But we have found that generally they tried to be very responsive. Kathy and Becky's case, my sister Kathy and Rebecca Dowski's case, is considered a federal case because their bodies were found inside the Colonial Parkway National Park. And if you die inside a national park, that's considered an FBI case, therefore a federal case from the beginning. This new team that took over in January are absolutely horrible. They refuse to speak to us, and I mean literally refuse to speak to us. They tell us nothing. And the only communication we have with the FBI is once a month, like clockwork, a very nice young woman from Victim Services calls me to tell me she has nothing to tell me every single month. Now, Victim Services is a department that's designed to, and I say this respectfully, handhold victims of violent crime in cases that the FBI is working with. At this point, we don't need handholding. We need facts. We need updates. We need status reports. And we're receiving absolutely none and we've even got this bizarre situation now where the senior person in charge of our case, he refuses to give me his email address. I've told him flat out I questioned his professionalism because I'm not going to hold back at this point. What do I have to lose? I'm already off the Christmas card list at the. Yep. And Kristen is, too, by the way. I feel bad.

[Kristen Dilley]

Oh, I've been off the Christmas card list since I started working with you, pal. It's. I was never under any. Any thought that I would be.

[Cheryl McCollum]

Well, I'm not afraid of the FBI either. My name is Nancy Grace. G R A.

[Kristen Dilley]

No, I'm just kidding.

[Bill Thomas]

Wait a minute now.

[Cheryl McCollum]

I'm just teasing. It's Cheryl McCollum. You know where I am, and I'm telling you, you know, if this was a case that they were going to be able to announce another connection. Kash Patel would tweet about it. They would do a big press conference. Well, if it's something you're going to take credit for, it's something you need to respond to before you're taking credit for something. Not communicating with the families is not acceptable, period.

[Bill Thomas]

And this is not just a Bill Thomas thing. This is all of the Colonial Parkway murders families. The. Interestingly, and I want to give credit, and I'll try to be like Mac here and balance my negatives with some positives. The Virginia State Police, who handled two of the double homicides in the Colonial Parkway murders, they're kind of pressing down hard on the gas. And I mean that in a complimentary way. They're actually going out, applying for the sexual assault kit initiative grants, PSAKI grants, and getting the money and sending out evidence in the Colonial Parkway murders for independent labs. Primarily. They've been using our friends at DNA Labs International down in Florida, and they're having some success here. They're breaking through with really tough, difficult DNA samples that are left after all these years. A number of these victims were dumped in the water. And so it's a very challenging older sample with sometimes degraded with seawater, sometimes very small amounts of DNA left. And yet they're moving this case forward with the initiatives from the Virginia Department of Forensic Science and the Virginia State Police. So we have to give them a lot of credit. It's taking longer than I would like. I'm not generally a patient person person, but at the same time, they're getting results which we're not seeing at all on the FBI side of this case.

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[Cheryl McCollum]

We any closer to solving Kathy's case?

[Bill Thomas]

I think we are and I'd love Kristen to weigh in too. We think the fact that we're seeing some very powerful patterns emerge now in these first four identified linked via DNA victims. So there's a lot of potential here for future progress. I'll call it in. The Colonial Parkway murders.

[Cheryl McCollum]

Now, Kristin, before you weigh in, I have a question for both of you. Kathy had hair in the palm of her hand. Is there any way if they can't get a full DNA profile, can they say whether or not the hair is consistent? Can they say it's the right color, the right texture, anything to Wilmer?

[Bill Thomas]

Well, if they would answer our hundreds of questions, I would be able to answer that question. I feel like an idiot that I cannot answer that question. But they refuse and they as the FBI refused to give us a clear concise answer as to what the status is regarding the testing of the hair that was found in my sister's hand at autopsy. Now, obviously that hair could be Kathy's hair, it could be Becky's hair. You know, imagine two people struggling or it could be the offender's hair. But we've been asking for years for a status report and they keep refusing.

[Kristen Dilley]

Well, and there was a point in time where Bill was getting four different answers on the hair yes, there was hair. No, there wasn't hair. There was one really memorable moment in time where they said it was animal hair. And it has been just trying to get them to even acknowledge, yes, there was hair definitively in her hand. Like, Bill, the last time that they talked to you, were they even on? Yes, there was definitely hair. Were they still on? No, there isn't. You're imagining things.

[Bill Thomas]

You know, they've had so many different stories. I finally blew up at one point, and my mom would not be proud of me for this. I remember, you know, just blowing up and saying, you guys on a conference call. You guys can't even keep your effing lies straight. You've had five different stories on the hair in my sister's hand. Which one is it? So, you know, I hesitate and people ask us all the time about the hair because we've pointed out this and a number of other problems in this investigation in terms of missed opportunities, discarded evidence. They burned my sister and Becky Dowski's rape kits as medical waste eight years after they were murdered. And I mean that literally. They burned my sister and Becky's rape kits as medical waste per order of the FBI. You can't make this stuff up, right?

[Cheryl McCollum]

Right. I mean, it's horrifying. And, you know, your sister and her girlfriend were placed in the trunk of the car. That means the killer had to have grabbed them by their clothing in different places to get that done. And that's when you and I first talked about the M vat. And again, the next thing I knew, y' all here. Bill was meeting with Jared Bradley. It was awesome, but I'm like, lord, I just told him about him. And now they're meeting and Bill is seeing the mvat in action. But I don't believe either at the shoulders or the waist of her pants or the cuffs of her jeans that you know, there's not going to be DNA from where that person grabbed her and threw her in the car.

[Bill Thomas]

Yeah, without question. And both of these women, both my sister Kathy and her girlfriend Becky, they're not tiny 95 pound women. They're both very tall, very athletic. They were both championship level athletes. Kathy's like 5, 6, 135, maybe even 140 pounds, depending on how much running she was doing. Becky's even taller and also extremely athletic. So these are not small, petite women. And you're absolutely right. To pick Kathy's body up and fold her up into the hatchback area of a Honda Civic required a significant amount of contact. You'd have to do some sort of, you know, like fireman's carry or, you know, cradle her dead body in your arms in order to place her inside the car. And they were clearly killed outside the vehicle. And Kathy ends up in the. What we called the way back when we were kids. But it's small. It's a 1980 Honda Civic. And then Becky's in the back seat. So a significant amount of effort and physical contact would have been required in order to move these two women from outside the car where they were likely killed, to inside the car where their bodies were found.

[Cheryl McCollum]

That's right. And nobody back then was thinking of DNA that wasn't a factor. So they wouldn't have gloves or any of that madness on. And, you know, to me, again, you're talking about no less than six different points on both of their bodies.

[Bill Thomas]

Well, we were promised DNA results regarding the touch DNA and these areas where they thought that Kathy and Becky would. Their bodies would have made contact with the offender or offenders. We were promised results well over a year ago and we still have nothing. We, you know, we keep asking questions and I feel like an idiot when I'm talking about this stuff. They just refuse to answer our questions.

[Cheryl McCollum]

Well, I'm just going to say again, the fact that Wilmer's DNA is not in codis, I can't even begin to tell you how disgusting that is to me. And, you know, I look at like the Amber Alert. If we have a child that is missing that doesn't meet the Amber Alert qualifications, you still contact the media. You still let surrounding agencies know this child is missing. You put their picture on social media. You don't just go, well, it doesn't meet Amber, so. Oh, well, no, there's gotta be a backdoor way to test these rape kits against his DNA. There has to be. We should not have to wait for legislation to be passed for something to be done. I mean, Kristen, am I crazy?

[Kristen Dilley]

No, you're not. You're not crazy. And I think that it is. Look, Bill and I are happy to do this work. This is something that brings both of us, I think, a good sense of purpose. But it should not be up to the families and the friends of murder victims to push forward for legislation and for change. Again, we're happy to do it because we have to do it, but it should. Shouldn't be up to us. We should not be the ones driving this. It should be up to the FBI.

[Cheryl McCollum]

Yeah, Bill don't work for the FBI.

[Kristen Dilley]

Yeah, neither of us do. We just Happen to be two loudmouth people who started a podcast.

[Cheryl McCollum]

Right. But the FBI should be working for him.

[Kristen Dilley]

Yes, exactly. I mean, you know, there's this whole concept that the FBI is here to protect and serve, that all police is here to protect and serve. And the vsp, you know, Bill said this before, and I'll go ahead and reiterate it again. The VSP is doing a fantastic job here because they, as you said earlier, Mac, they haven't let off the gas. And, you know, my understanding with the investigative team that are working on this is that they're going to continue to seek as many answers as possible. But I don't know why. And maybe there is behind the scenes, and I don't know, but I don't know why there isn't a Alan Wade Wilmer task force, which is calling on everybody locally, and not just in Virginia, but in D.C. in Maryland, in North Carolina, even as far as South Carolina, to say, hey, if y' all have cold cases that look like they could match him, bring them forward. We need to figure out where this guy was going. But he's got a boat. He could go anywhere up the coast, down the coast. We're right here at the Intracoastal Waterway. He could go as far down as Florida. We don't know the scope of this guy's crimes. There should be a task force somewhere encouraging people, bring all your stuff to us. We'll sort it out. But it shouldn't be up for us to make those recommendations.

[Bill Thomas]

And what's frustrating, too, is that he had an older brother, William Keith Wilmer, who went by his middle name Keith, and he died at the end of April, 2025. Now, my understanding from the FBI is that he did voluntarily give up his DNA. And they have the middle brother, Alan Wade Wilmer Sr. They also have a younger brother who's also deceased. But because the FBI is dragging its feet to a point that is insane, now we have a situation where suspects are dying one after another when they should be properly investigated while they're still alive.

[Cheryl McCollum]

Well, Bill, Kristin, I tell you, we all stand with y'.

[Bill Thomas]

All.

[Cheryl McCollum]

We are all going to keep champion and pushing this thing. And here's the thing. If anybody in the FBI is listening, Bill ain't going nowhere. I hate to tell y'.

[Bill Thomas]

All.

[Kristen Dilley]

Nope. Nope.

[Cheryl McCollum]

So if it were me, I would probably send him an email. I might call him. Heck, I might knock on the door and maybe sit on the front porch with him and see if you can't explain the behavior in the past. But tell him what you're going to do going forward. And I don't mean have a victim advocate call him once a month to say there's nothing new to say.

[Kristen Dilley]

Wholeheartedly agree with that.

[Cheryl McCollum]

But Bill and Kristen, I appreciate you. Bill, we're going to stand with you and fight. So whether it's legislation or making phone calls or, you know, using our resources and our media to help make sure people understand what's going on. And the way that the families of the Colonial Parkway, the way you're being treated is just unconscionable. There's no excuse, there's nothing they could ever say that would make that okay.

[Bill Thomas]

Well, thank you. We appreciate it, y'.

[Cheryl McCollum]

All. I'm gonna end Zone 7 the way that I always do with a quote. The delays are just unconscionable at this point. This can't take years every single time. Bill Thomas, brother of Kathy Thomas. I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is Zone 7.

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