Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: Convicted Killer Susan Smith's Shocking Prison Texts
Date: September 28, 2025
Host: Nancy Grace
Guests: Chris McDonough, Joe Scott Morgan, Tara Malik, Dr. Bethany Marshall, Dave Mack

Episode Overview

In this gripping episode, Nancy Grace revisits the infamous case of Susan Smith, the South Carolina mother convicted of drowning her two young sons in 1994. With newly uncovered prison texts showing Smith carrying on romantic and sexual relationships while behind bars—and raking in thousands of dollars from lovelorn men—Nancy and her expert panel dig into Smith’s current life, her manipulation tactics, and the chilling details of the crime that horrified the nation.

Key Discussion Points

1. Susan Smith’s Prison Life and Shocking Romantic Entanglements

Timestamps: [02:02], [15:27], [37:52]

Smith's Popularity Among Men:
- Susan Smith, serving a life sentence, is said to be trading up to 20 texts a day and spending hours on the phone with smitten men ranging from their 20s to 60s.
- These men reportedly send her thousands of dollars and engage in explicit conversations, buoyed by the fantasy that she will "be with them" once released.
- Nancy is appalled:
  - "This woman is raking in thousands of dollars from lovelorn men. Promises she will, quote, be with them. I think we all know what that means when she ever gets out of prison." ([02:25])
- Smith downplays the transactional nature, telling one man, "I don't ask for money. That's not who I am," yet quickly accepts funds ([15:27]).
False Narratives and Manipulation:
- Chris McDonough: "All behavior has a purpose and that past behavior is usually an indication of future behavior... she always, sometimes projected the words of 'they' into her vocabulary." ([41:48])
- Smith continues to reinvent herself behind bars, much as she crafted elaborate stories after the murders.

2. The 1994 Crime and the National Outcry

Timestamps: [04:01], [05:53], [09:48], [12:24], [17:18], [19:37], [21:05], [22:54], [29:42], [30:48]

Initial Lies & 911 Calls:
- Smith claimed an unknown Black man carjacked her at a red light with her boys still in the car—a claim that set off a massive search and media frenzy.
- The panel analyzes the misleading 911 audio, praising its "degree of detail" ([05:53]) but decrying the calculated deception.
- Joe Scott Morgan notes the statistical improbability of a random stranger committing this kind of crime in rural Union County, SC:
  - "The lion's share of homicides... have some kind of familial connection. So you're going to tell me that a random stranger just came up and kidnapped these babies and run off with them and left her standing on the side of the road weeping?" ([07:53])
Racial Implications and Reckless Accusations:
- Nancy reflects on the dangers:
  - "An innocent person could have been arrested and probably tried and convicted based on her fake composite and all of her lies." ([11:22])
- Tara Malik: "It's just mind boggling that she would go down this road." ([12:00])
Emotional Manipulation in Press Statements:
- The group listens to Smith's public plea: "I would like to say to whoever has my children that they please, I mean, please bring them home to us where they belong.” ([12:39])
- Nancy is viscerally disgusted given Smith’s knowledge her sons were already dead.

3. Psychological Analysis of Smith and Public Fascination

Timestamps: [17:18], [18:59], [27:42], [41:48]

Pathology of Smith’s Crimes:
- Dr. Bethany Marshall delves into Smith’s makeup:
  - "We know she's a sociopath, but what beyond that... She loves that feeling of falling in love... It's really a pathological attachment to men." ([17:18])
- Cluster B disorders (sociopathy, bipolar, borderline) are discussed as common in maternal filicide.
- Dr. Marshall and Tara Malik explore themes of using children as leverage in romantic relationships and craving male attention above all else.
- Nancy: "How are you linking this to double murder? Why this woman did not get the death penalty, I do not know..." ([17:45])
Men’s Attraction to Smith:
- Dr. Marshall: "Some women relate primarily to men because they feel they can seduce them... a way of feeling important." ([28:04])
- Nancy sums up the sentiment: "It's like being in a barrel with a rattlesnake. Who wants that?" ([17:58])

4. Crime Details and the Death of Michael and Alexander Smith

Timestamps: [19:37], [21:05], [30:48], [43:09]

Method and Motive:
- Smith strapped her sons into their car seats, drove them to John D. Long Lake, released the brake, and watched the car sink.
- Motive explored via her relationship with Tom Finley, a wealthy mill owner's son, who had just broken up with her, allegedly citing not wanting children or her flirtatious, erratic behavior.
Murder Description:
- The panel relives the horror:
  - Joe Scott Morgan:
    - “Imagine...water creeping up on you. Water's getting into your nose, your little mouth, your eyes. You're running out of oxygen. Your brain is screaming. It's on fire...It was torturous. It was absolutely horrific what these babies went through at that moment.” ([30:48])
  - Nancy’s takeaway: "When I think of Susan Smith, I immediately think of being trapped, strapped into a car as it's going down a ramp and going underwater...The children in the case were three and 14 months." ([43:09])

5. Smith’s Relationships and Manipulation in Prison

Timestamps: [29:42], [34:05], [35:13], [37:52]

Sexual Relationships with Guards:
- Smith had at least four sexual encounters with supervisory prison staff—some lost careers and faced legal consequences.
- Tara Malik: “She's still showing those signs of manipulation...she engaged in before she was convicted and sentenced.” ([39:58])
Discipline and Drug Use:
- Smith was disciplined for drug infractions multiple times, indicating she has not been rehabilitated.
Continued Manipulation for Profit:
- Smith is described as running up thousands in her prison account from male admirers.
- Nancy bluntly: "She committed double murder. That's what happened. It's not anyone's fault but her own." ([37:52])

6. Victim Focus and The Lasting Outrage

Timestamps: [30:48], [39:58], [43:42], [44:39]

Re-centering on the Victims:
- Joe Scott Morgan emphasizes honoring the children:
  - “With Alex and Michael...it’s really important that I say their names at this moment in time because they are the victims.” ([30:48])
Host Outrage and Final Reflections:
- Nancy to Smith: "Just go ahead and rake in all the money you want, but good luck enjoying it behind bars. Do you ever even think of your two little boys that you murdered? I do." ([44:39])
- Episode closes with Nancy’s trademark outrage and advocacy for the victims.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Nancy Grace (about Smith’s prison relationships): "Please somebody bring me my vomit bag. This is who Susan Smith really is." ([15:40])
Chris McDonough (on Smith's deceptive detail): "Typically that detail, if it's that minutiae and that amount, it's typically a sign of deception. And she kicked it off right from that 911 call." ([06:33])
Dr. Bethany Marshall (on Smith’s pathological attachment): "It's really a pathological attachment to men...They never become real people to her. They're all just objects, love objects who flatter her." ([18:59], [28:04])
Joe Scott Morgan (victims' final moments): “It was torturous. It was absolutely horrific what these babies went through at that moment.” ([30:48])
Nancy Grace (on enduring outrage): “I still get very angry, very angry. And I know the end of this story.” ([06:20])

Timestamps for Key Segments

[02:02] - Nancy introduces the latest on Susan Smith's prison relationships.
[04:01], [05:53] - Analysis of the original 911 calls and deceptive details.
[09:48] - Police dispatcher relays Smith’s description of the suspect.
[12:24] - Discussion of the racist scapegoating and risk of wrongful accusation.
[17:18] - Dr. Bethany Marshall on psychological drivers behind Smith’s crimes.
[19:37] - Recap of Smith's false narrative and her obsession with Tom Finley.
[21:05] - Smith's confession and the discovery of her sons' bodies.
[27:42] - Finley's stated motives for breaking up with Smith and Smith’s response.
[29:42], [34:05] - Smith’s sexual misconduct with prison staff and discipline records.
[37:52] - New revelations: Smith’s phone and texting habits, manipulative appeals for money.
[41:48] - Commentary on the charisma and manipulation often seen in killers.
[43:09] - Re-examining the victims’ final moments and the horror of their deaths.
[44:39] - Nancy Grace's closing plea and enduring anger over Smith’s actions.

Tone: The episode is marked by Nancy Grace’s trademark outrage and no-nonsense style, with frequent interruptions for intense expert analysis, psychological reflections, and pointed questions about justice, victimhood, and the nature of evil.

If you missed the episode, this summary provides all the crucial facts, context, analysis, and the emotional through line that make “Crime Stories with Nancy Grace” so gripping.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points

1. Susan Smith’s Prison Life and Shocking Romantic Entanglements

Timestamps: [02:02], [15:27], [37:52]

Smith's Popularity Among Men:
- Susan Smith, serving a life sentence, is said to be trading up to 20 texts a day and spending hours on the phone with smitten men ranging from their 20s to 60s.
- These men reportedly send her thousands of dollars and engage in explicit conversations, buoyed by the fantasy that she will "be with them" once released.
- Nancy is appalled:
  - "This woman is raking in thousands of dollars from lovelorn men. Promises she will, quote, be with them. I think we all know what that means when she ever gets out of prison." ([02:25])
- Smith downplays the transactional nature, telling one man, "I don't ask for money. That's not who I am," yet quickly accepts funds ([15:27]).
False Narratives and Manipulation:
- Chris McDonough: "All behavior has a purpose and that past behavior is usually an indication of future behavior... she always, sometimes projected the words of 'they' into her vocabulary." ([41:48])
- Smith continues to reinvent herself behind bars, much as she crafted elaborate stories after the murders.

2. The 1994 Crime and the National Outcry

Timestamps: [04:01], [05:53], [09:48], [12:24], [17:18], [19:37], [21:05], [22:54], [29:42], [30:48]

Initial Lies & 911 Calls:
- Smith claimed an unknown Black man carjacked her at a red light with her boys still in the car—a claim that set off a massive search and media frenzy.
- The panel analyzes the misleading 911 audio, praising its "degree of detail" ([05:53]) but decrying the calculated deception.
- Joe Scott Morgan notes the statistical improbability of a random stranger committing this kind of crime in rural Union County, SC:
  - "The lion's share of homicides... have some kind of familial connection. So you're going to tell me that a random stranger just came up and kidnapped these babies and run off with them and left her standing on the side of the road weeping?" ([07:53])
Racial Implications and Reckless Accusations:
- Nancy reflects on the dangers:
  - "An innocent person could have been arrested and probably tried and convicted based on her fake composite and all of her lies." ([11:22])
- Tara Malik: "It's just mind boggling that she would go down this road." ([12:00])
Emotional Manipulation in Press Statements:
- The group listens to Smith's public plea: "I would like to say to whoever has my children that they please, I mean, please bring them home to us where they belong.” ([12:39])
- Nancy is viscerally disgusted given Smith’s knowledge her sons were already dead.

3. Psychological Analysis of Smith and Public Fascination

Timestamps: [17:18], [18:59], [27:42], [41:48]

Pathology of Smith’s Crimes:
- Dr. Bethany Marshall delves into Smith’s makeup:
  - "We know she's a sociopath, but what beyond that... She loves that feeling of falling in love... It's really a pathological attachment to men." ([17:18])
- Cluster B disorders (sociopathy, bipolar, borderline) are discussed as common in maternal filicide.
- Dr. Marshall and Tara Malik explore themes of using children as leverage in romantic relationships and craving male attention above all else.
- Nancy: "How are you linking this to double murder? Why this woman did not get the death penalty, I do not know..." ([17:45])
Men’s Attraction to Smith:
- Dr. Marshall: "Some women relate primarily to men because they feel they can seduce them... a way of feeling important." ([28:04])
- Nancy sums up the sentiment: "It's like being in a barrel with a rattlesnake. Who wants that?" ([17:58])

4. Crime Details and the Death of Michael and Alexander Smith

Timestamps: [19:37], [21:05], [30:48], [43:09]

Method and Motive:
- Smith strapped her sons into their car seats, drove them to John D. Long Lake, released the brake, and watched the car sink.
- Motive explored via her relationship with Tom Finley, a wealthy mill owner's son, who had just broken up with her, allegedly citing not wanting children or her flirtatious, erratic behavior.
Murder Description:
- The panel relives the horror:
  - Joe Scott Morgan:
    - “Imagine...water creeping up on you. Water's getting into your nose, your little mouth, your eyes. You're running out of oxygen. Your brain is screaming. It's on fire...It was torturous. It was absolutely horrific what these babies went through at that moment.” ([30:48])
  - Nancy’s takeaway: "When I think of Susan Smith, I immediately think of being trapped, strapped into a car as it's going down a ramp and going underwater...The children in the case were three and 14 months." ([43:09])

5. Smith’s Relationships and Manipulation in Prison

Timestamps: [29:42], [34:05], [35:13], [37:52]

Sexual Relationships with Guards:
- Smith had at least four sexual encounters with supervisory prison staff—some lost careers and faced legal consequences.
- Tara Malik: “She's still showing those signs of manipulation...she engaged in before she was convicted and sentenced.” ([39:58])
Discipline and Drug Use:
- Smith was disciplined for drug infractions multiple times, indicating she has not been rehabilitated.
Continued Manipulation for Profit:
- Smith is described as running up thousands in her prison account from male admirers.
- Nancy bluntly: "She committed double murder. That's what happened. It's not anyone's fault but her own." ([37:52])

6. Victim Focus and The Lasting Outrage

Timestamps: [30:48], [39:58], [43:42], [44:39]

Re-centering on the Victims:
- Joe Scott Morgan emphasizes honoring the children:
  - “With Alex and Michael...it’s really important that I say their names at this moment in time because they are the victims.” ([30:48])
Host Outrage and Final Reflections:
- Nancy to Smith: "Just go ahead and rake in all the money you want, but good luck enjoying it behind bars. Do you ever even think of your two little boys that you murdered? I do." ([44:39])
- Episode closes with Nancy’s trademark outrage and advocacy for the victims.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Nancy Grace (about Smith’s prison relationships): "Please somebody bring me my vomit bag. This is who Susan Smith really is." ([15:40])
Chris McDonough (on Smith's deceptive detail): "Typically that detail, if it's that minutiae and that amount, it's typically a sign of deception. And she kicked it off right from that 911 call." ([06:33])
Dr. Bethany Marshall (on Smith’s pathological attachment): "It's really a pathological attachment to men...They never become real people to her. They're all just objects, love objects who flatter her." ([18:59], [28:04])
Joe Scott Morgan (victims' final moments): “It was torturous. It was absolutely horrific what these babies went through at that moment.” ([30:48])
Nancy Grace (on enduring outrage): “I still get very angry, very angry. And I know the end of this story.” ([06:20])

Timestamps for Key Segments

[02:02] - Nancy introduces the latest on Susan Smith's prison relationships.
[04:01], [05:53] - Analysis of the original 911 calls and deceptive details.
[09:48] - Police dispatcher relays Smith’s description of the suspect.
[12:24] - Discussion of the racist scapegoating and risk of wrongful accusation.
[17:18] - Dr. Bethany Marshall on psychological drivers behind Smith’s crimes.
[19:37] - Recap of Smith's false narrative and her obsession with Tom Finley.
[21:05] - Smith's confession and the discovery of her sons' bodies.
[27:42] - Finley's stated motives for breaking up with Smith and Smith’s response.
[29:42], [34:05] - Smith’s sexual misconduct with prison staff and discipline records.
[37:52] - New revelations: Smith’s phone and texting habits, manipulative appeals for money.
[41:48] - Commentary on the charisma and manipulation often seen in killers.
[43:09] - Re-examining the victims’ final moments and the horror of their deaths.
[44:39] - Nancy Grace's closing plea and enduring anger over Smith’s actions.

If you missed the episode, this summary provides all the crucial facts, context, analysis, and the emotional through line that make “Crime Stories with Nancy Grace” so gripping.

wavePod

Convicted Killer Susan Smith's Shocking Prison Texts

Summary

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points

1. Susan Smith’s Prison Life and Shocking Romantic Entanglements

2. The 1994 Crime and the National Outcry

3. Psychological Analysis of Smith and Public Fascination

4. Crime Details and the Death of Michael and Alexander Smith

5. Smith’s Relationships and Manipulation in Prison

6. Victim Focus and The Lasting Outrage

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Transcript

Summary

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points

1. Susan Smith’s Prison Life and Shocking Romantic Entanglements

2. The 1994 Crime and the National Outcry

3. Psychological Analysis of Smith and Public Fascination

4. Crime Details and the Death of Michael and Alexander Smith

5. Smith’s Relationships and Manipulation in Prison

6. Victim Focus and The Lasting Outrage

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments