Convicted Killer Susan Smith's Shocking Prison Texts

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: Convicted Killer Susan Smith's Shocking Prison Texts
Date: September 28, 2025
Host: Nancy Grace
Guests: Chris McDonough, Joe Scott Morgan, Tara Malik, Dr. Bethany Marshall, Dave Mack

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Episode Overview

In this gripping episode, Nancy Grace revisits the infamous case of Susan Smith, the South Carolina mother convicted of drowning her two young sons in 1994. With newly uncovered prison texts showing Smith carrying on romantic and sexual relationships while behind bars—and raking in thousands of dollars from lovelorn men—Nancy and her expert panel dig into Smith’s current life, her manipulation tactics, and the chilling details of the crime that horrified the nation.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Susan Smith’s Prison Life and Shocking Romantic Entanglements

Timestamps: [02:02], [15:27], [37:52]

• Smith's Popularity Among Men:

  • Susan Smith, serving a life sentence, is said to be trading up to 20 texts a day and spending hours on the phone with smitten men ranging from their 20s to 60s.
  • These men reportedly send her thousands of dollars and engage in explicit conversations, buoyed by the fantasy that she will "be with them" once released.
  • Nancy is appalled:
    • "This woman is raking in thousands of dollars from lovelorn men. Promises she will, quote, be with them. I think we all know what that means when she ever gets out of prison." ([02:25])
  • Smith downplays the transactional nature, telling one man, "I don't ask for money. That's not who I am," yet quickly accepts funds ([15:27]).

• False Narratives and Manipulation:

  • Chris McDonough: "All behavior has a purpose and that past behavior is usually an indication of future behavior... she always, sometimes projected the words of 'they' into her vocabulary." ([41:48])
  • Smith continues to reinvent herself behind bars, much as she crafted elaborate stories after the murders.

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2. The 1994 Crime and the National Outcry

Timestamps: [04:01], [05:53], [09:48], [12:24], [17:18], [19:37], [21:05], [22:54], [29:42], [30:48]

• Initial Lies & 911 Calls:

  • Smith claimed an unknown Black man carjacked her at a red light with her boys still in the car—a claim that set off a massive search and media frenzy.
  • The panel analyzes the misleading 911 audio, praising its "degree of detail" ([05:53]) but decrying the calculated deception.
  • Joe Scott Morgan notes the statistical improbability of a random stranger committing this kind of crime in rural Union County, SC:
    • "The lion's share of homicides... have some kind of familial connection. So you're going to tell me that a random stranger just came up and kidnapped these babies and run off with them and left her standing on the side of the road weeping?" ([07:53])

• Racial Implications and Reckless Accusations:

  • Nancy reflects on the dangers:
    • "An innocent person could have been arrested and probably tried and convicted based on her fake composite and all of her lies." ([11:22])
  • Tara Malik: "It's just mind boggling that she would go down this road." ([12:00])

• Emotional Manipulation in Press Statements:

  • The group listens to Smith's public plea: "I would like to say to whoever has my children that they please, I mean, please bring them home to us where they belong.” ([12:39])
  • Nancy is viscerally disgusted given Smith’s knowledge her sons were already dead.

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3. Psychological Analysis of Smith and Public Fascination

Timestamps: [17:18], [18:59], [27:42], [41:48]

• Pathology of Smith’s Crimes:

  • Dr. Bethany Marshall delves into Smith’s makeup:
    • "We know she's a sociopath, but what beyond that... She loves that feeling of falling in love... It's really a pathological attachment to men." ([17:18])
  • Cluster B disorders (sociopathy, bipolar, borderline) are discussed as common in maternal filicide.
  • Dr. Marshall and Tara Malik explore themes of using children as leverage in romantic relationships and craving male attention above all else.
  • Nancy: "How are you linking this to double murder? Why this woman did not get the death penalty, I do not know..." ([17:45])

• Men’s Attraction to Smith:

  • Dr. Marshall: "Some women relate primarily to men because they feel they can seduce them... a way of feeling important." ([28:04])
  • Nancy sums up the sentiment: "It's like being in a barrel with a rattlesnake. Who wants that?" ([17:58])

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4. Crime Details and the Death of Michael and Alexander Smith

Timestamps: [19:37], [21:05], [30:48], [43:09]

• Method and Motive:

  • Smith strapped her sons into their car seats, drove them to John D. Long Lake, released the brake, and watched the car sink.
  • Motive explored via her relationship with Tom Finley, a wealthy mill owner's son, who had just broken up with her, allegedly citing not wanting children or her flirtatious, erratic behavior.

• Murder Description:

  • The panel relives the horror:
    • Joe Scott Morgan:
      • “Imagine...water creeping up on you. Water's getting into your nose, your little mouth, your eyes. You're running out of oxygen. Your brain is screaming. It's on fire...It was torturous. It was absolutely horrific what these babies went through at that moment.” ([30:48])
    • Nancy’s takeaway: "When I think of Susan Smith, I immediately think of being trapped, strapped into a car as it's going down a ramp and going underwater...The children in the case were three and 14 months." ([43:09])

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5. Smith’s Relationships and Manipulation in Prison

Timestamps: [29:42], [34:05], [35:13], [37:52]

• Sexual Relationships with Guards:

  • Smith had at least four sexual encounters with supervisory prison staff—some lost careers and faced legal consequences.
  • Tara Malik: “She's still showing those signs of manipulation...she engaged in before she was convicted and sentenced.” ([39:58])

• Discipline and Drug Use:

  • Smith was disciplined for drug infractions multiple times, indicating she has not been rehabilitated.

• Continued Manipulation for Profit:

  • Smith is described as running up thousands in her prison account from male admirers.
  • Nancy bluntly: "She committed double murder. That's what happened. It's not anyone's fault but her own." ([37:52])

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6. Victim Focus and The Lasting Outrage

Timestamps: [30:48], [39:58], [43:42], [44:39]

• Re-centering on the Victims:

  • Joe Scott Morgan emphasizes honoring the children:
    • “With Alex and Michael...it’s really important that I say their names at this moment in time because they are the victims.” ([30:48])

• Host Outrage and Final Reflections:

  • Nancy to Smith: "Just go ahead and rake in all the money you want, but good luck enjoying it behind bars. Do you ever even think of your two little boys that you murdered? I do." ([44:39])
  • Episode closes with Nancy’s trademark outrage and advocacy for the victims.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Nancy Grace (about Smith’s prison relationships): "Please somebody bring me my vomit bag. This is who Susan Smith really is." ([15:40])
• Chris McDonough (on Smith's deceptive detail): "Typically that detail, if it's that minutiae and that amount, it's typically a sign of deception. And she kicked it off right from that 911 call." ([06:33])
• Dr. Bethany Marshall (on Smith’s pathological attachment): "It's really a pathological attachment to men...They never become real people to her. They're all just objects, love objects who flatter her." ([18:59], [28:04])
• Joe Scott Morgan (victims' final moments): “It was torturous. It was absolutely horrific what these babies went through at that moment.” ([30:48])
• Nancy Grace (on enduring outrage): “I still get very angry, very angry. And I know the end of this story.” ([06:20])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:02] - Nancy introduces the latest on Susan Smith's prison relationships.
• [04:01], [05:53] - Analysis of the original 911 calls and deceptive details.
• [09:48] - Police dispatcher relays Smith’s description of the suspect.
• [12:24] - Discussion of the racist scapegoating and risk of wrongful accusation.
• [17:18] - Dr. Bethany Marshall on psychological drivers behind Smith’s crimes.
• [19:37] - Recap of Smith's false narrative and her obsession with Tom Finley.
• [21:05] - Smith's confession and the discovery of her sons' bodies.
• [27:42] - Finley's stated motives for breaking up with Smith and Smith’s response.
• [29:42], [34:05] - Smith’s sexual misconduct with prison staff and discipline records.
• [37:52] - New revelations: Smith’s phone and texting habits, manipulative appeals for money.
• [41:48] - Commentary on the charisma and manipulation often seen in killers.
• [43:09] - Re-examining the victims’ final moments and the horror of their deaths.
• [44:39] - Nancy Grace's closing plea and enduring anger over Smith’s actions.

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Tone: The episode is marked by Nancy Grace’s trademark outrage and no-nonsense style, with frequent interruptions for intense expert analysis, psychological reflections, and pointed questions about justice, victimhood, and the nature of evil.

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If you missed the episode, this summary provides all the crucial facts, context, analysis, and the emotional through line that make “Crime Stories with Nancy Grace” so gripping.

Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

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Busy taxes and fees. Extra cement mobile.com crime stories with Nancy Grace in the last days. Shocking and let me say, disgusting jail Text of baby killer mom Susan Smith. Remember her? She drowned her two children. This woman. It never ends with her. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Killer mom Susan Smith, who's around her two little boys in South Carolina is raking in. I can't believe this. I had to go to, let's see, four years of undergrad, three years of law school, and three years of graduate law school at NYU. That's four plus three. That's 10 years to make a living. This woman is raking in thousands of dollars from lovelorn men. Prom. She will, quote, be with them. I think we all know what that means when she ever gets out of prison. Yes, yes. Transcripts have been obtained of hundreds of voice and text messages Smith has traded with lovesick men while she's behind bars. She gets and sends around 20 texts a day, spending hours talking on the phone to lovesick guys who engage in sex talk with her. And these guys range from age 27. What? Go, go, go. Find a young woman your own age. Repeat sake. 27 and mid 60s. They send money to her prison account and she texts about how she wants to be with them and what she wants to do to them when she gets out. Okay, reality check. This is who Susan Smith really is.

[Chris McDonough]

Yes, ma'. Am. There's a lady, you come up that door and she. Some guy jumped into a red light. Her car with her two kids in it. And he took off and she got out of the car here at Ohio. And he's got the kids. Yes, ma', am, in her car. I don't see real hysterical. And I just decided I need to call the law and get him down here. What kind of car is it? We need to know something. We trying to ask her now. A Mazda Protege. What color was it? A burgundy Mazda Protege. Get them going, Pam. I got two kids.

[Nancy Grace]

I love that degree of detail. You know, I don't even know where to go first because I got such awesome experts, but I'm gonna go first with Chris McDonough. He is the director of Cold Case Foundation. Okay, don't care. Former homicide detective starting to care. Getting warm, getting warm. Getting hotter. He has his own YouTube channel. The interview room where I found him, you can find him at coldcasefoundation.org or on the interview room. Former homicide detective, 300ish homicide scenes under his belt. Chris McDonough. Don't you love the degree of detail? Hey, you know what, Cindy? Sometimes you gotta hear the best stuff. Can you play that one more time? Listen.

[Chris McDonough]

Yes, ma'. Am. There's a lady who come up that door and she. Some guy jumped into a red light with her car with her two kids in it and he took off and she got out of the car here at Ohio. And he's got the kid. Yes, ma'. Am. And her car. I don't. She's real hysterical and I just decided I need to call law and get him down here. And the car is it. But we need to know something. We trying to ask her now. A Mazda Protege. What color was it? A burgundy Mazda Protege. Get him going, pam.

[Tara Malik]

I got two kids.

[Nancy Grace]

All the detail. Chris McDonough, she's, quote, real hysterical. And you need to call law and get him down here right now. And you hear her feeding details in the background.

[Chris McDonough]

Nancy, wasn't that the narrative that captivated America?

[Nancy Grace]

How can you be so calm?

[Chris McDonough]

You know, we just get used to it, unfortunately. Right. It's what somebody.

[Nancy Grace]

I still get very angry, very angry. And I know the end of this story. But the detail. Have you ever seen perps and they will spin you a yarn with such incredibly rich detail?

[Chris McDonough]

Yeah. And typically that detail, if it's that minutiae and that amount, it's typically a sign of deception. And she kicked it off right from that 911 call.

[Nancy Grace]

From the beginning. The beginning. Running up to somebody's house, talking about some guy jumps out. And, you know, this occurs in rural Union County, South Carolina, near the John D. Long Lake. And, you know, hold on. Chris McDonough, where do you live, Chris?

[Chris McDonough]

Well, right now I'm in Arizona, but I lived in South Carolina, right there in Mount Pleasure.

[Nancy Grace]

You're very familiar with this area. Let me go to another country like this country girl right here. Joe Scott Morgan joining me, although he's gotten pretty highfalutin. Professor, forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet. Still waiting on another book to come out. Host of Body Bags, a hit podcast. This area. Chris McDonough has lived in South Carolina. I've gone to this scene before. It's extremely rural, and I'm supposed to believe a guy jumps out of what from behind a, a stop sign and hijacks her car and takes off with the children clearly in the backseat, two little boys.

[Joe Scott Morgan]

Yeah. What are the odds that you're going to have somebody that wants to do this kind of harm, whether or not they had an awareness that, you know, these poor little angels were buckled down in those back seats? The fact that you would have this kind of aggressive behavior in that location where she was specifically targeted as an investigator, I'm certainly going to raise an eyebrow and I'm going to take a long look at what she has to say, because as you and I both know, Nancy, the lion's share, the lion's share of homicides that we talked about have some kind of familial connection that means that you're around intimates, those individuals that are most important. So you're Going to tell me that a random stranger just came up and kidnapped these babies and run off with them and left her standing on the side of the road weeping?

[Nancy Grace]

Now, did you hear what he just did? Chris McDonough. I am going along with everything he says, but he's a wily one. You got to really watching. Watch what Joe Scott says. I agree with the whole rural aspect, but did you hear him say if the unknown male assailant noticed the children in the backseat? I'm looking right now at a 94 Mazda protege. You can see straight into the back seat from every angle of the car. It's not like, you know, you see those black SUVs with tinted windows. You can't see what's going on in there. No, you can see exactly what's going on in the back seat. And I'm looking at a shot from the distance. I can see through the back window, through the. The back dash, and through the other side of the car. Whoever took the car could definitely see that chill. Children were strapped into car seats in the back seat.

[Chris McDonough]

100%.

[Nancy Grace]

I mean. Okay, you know what? Let's take a listen to the 911 call. Listen.

[Chris McDonough]

Union 105. 105, go ahead. Said it was a black male driving a burgundy protege. Affirmative. 105. He had two juveniles with him. 105. From what I understood, these were small children. These are her children. And she jumped out of the car.

[Tara Malik]

And he took the car with the children.

[Chris McDonough]

And he's headed toward Chesh Union.

[Joe Scott Morgan]

100.

[Chris McDonough]

100, go ahead. Are the victim and the suspect missed call the same family? 100. From what I gathered by the call, they are not.

[Tara Malik]

This is a stranger that had jumped.

[Nancy Grace]

In the lady's car at a red.

[Chris McDonough]

Light, and she jumped out.

[Nancy Grace]

I mean, really, Tara. And I'm leading up to what Susan Smith is doing right now. And let me tell you, it involves six different men that said Tara Malik, joining me out of Boise, Idaho, co owner Smith and Malik, former state and federal prosecutor. Tara, once again, blame the black man. I remember when this happened. I was trying a case, and I looked over at my friend, my colleague, who went on to be a judge, I might add. And I went, herman, have you seen the composite of the guy that Susan Smith described? And he went, yeah, I know what you're gonna say, like, yeah, it looks just like you. It looked just like Herman Sloan, my trial partner, who had come into court to bail me out of some sling. I got in with the judge with some appellate law, trying to suggest that I was Right. And whatever. I. But he went, yeah, I heard I look just like the Susan Smith perp. And he did. I mean, think about it, Tara. An innocent person could have been arrested and probably tried and convicted based on her fake composite and all of her lies. Like Maya Herman, one of my best friends in the DA's office. Yeah, absolutely.

[Tara Malik]

I mean, the crime itself was atrocious and horrific and terrible. And then. And then, you know, to give this false profile of someone else who may have done it, wasting resources, law enforcement resources, wasting everybody's time, but also, like you said, putting somebody else potentially in jeopardy of being picked up for. It's just mind boggling that she would go down this road.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, I've dealt with Assad defense many times. I named it that. Some other dude did it. S O D D and here she goes. Some other dude did it. And listen to her. Listen. I would like to say to whoever has my children that they please, I mean, please bring them home to us where they belong.

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Now, in one instance, she tells a lovesick dude quote, I don't ask for money. That's not who I am. Does he know you're a two time killer? But if you wanted to send me something, I can tell you how to do it. He writes back and says he has absolutely sent money into her jail account. Love ya. She responds, okay, please somebody bring me my vomit bag. This is who Susan Smith really is. Susan Smith murdered her boys. Dr. Bethany Marshall joining says she's a renowned psychoanalyst at Dr. Bethany Marshall.com As a matter of fact, Dr. Bethany, I don't get it. We've got men sexting and texting and writing and sending money and love letters to Susan Smith when she is a bald faced liar that killed her children in the worst way. Letting her car hurt Burgundy protege go down a ramp with the two little boys alive strapped in the back seat. Why? I don't get it. Why would men want to be with this woman? Send her money and sex text with her. But did you hear her lying? Do you remember when that happened? Crying and the snotting and the all that happening. And I, I want to say whoever has my children, they please, please bring them home to us where they belong. Knowing full well they drowned strapped in their car seats.

[Tara Malik]

Well, it shows how immature she is at the most basic level that she thinks.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, wait. The most you can say she's immature, she murdered two little boys.

[Tara Malik]

We know she's a sociopath, but what beyond the fact that she's a sociopath, what additional factors are there that would lead to this? And one is an over attachment to men. She loves that feeling of falling in love. The feeling you have the first six months.

[Nancy Grace]

How are you linking this to double murder? Why this woman did not get the death penalty, I do not know. And now there's six guys trying to have sex with her. Really? Ew.

[Tara Malik]

But it's really, it's really a pathological attachment to men.

[Nancy Grace]

It's like being in a barrel with, with a rattlesnake. Who wants that?

[Chris McDonough]

I.

[Tara Malik]

Well, apparently they do. And you know, women who commit fanticide who kill their children often have some.

[Chris McDonough]

Really.

[Tara Malik]

First of all, they usually what we.

[Nancy Grace]

Call cluster B, you better not say really has some sexy mojo going on because I'm totally cutting your mic.

[Tara Malik]

Okay, so they're cluster B, which means they have three different disorders, Sociopathy, bipolar and borderline. Often they have a very pathological attachment to men. Either they kill the children to get back at a love object, like I'm going to kill our children because I'm mad at you. It's hard to describe this without really sounding like it's trite, but it's these, this, these are the underpinnings of what these women do. So it's either I'm going to kill the children to get back at you or I'm going to kill the children because I found a new guy and I don't want the children to be in the way.

[Nancy Grace]

Interesting that you said that. Interesting. But I also want you to hear the level of detail that she weaves into her big fat lie about her two murdered little boys. I can't even imagine a more excruciating death than being strapped in a car, can't get out. The car goes underwater, a muddy lake. And you're in the car screaming for mommy as that car fills up with water till you drown. Listen to our Cut for Crime online.

[Ryan Seacrest]

On the night of October 25th, Susan Smith knocks on the door of a house near John D. Long Lake. She's hysterical when the man answers the door and tells him to call the police. A black man just carjacked her at a red light. He had a gun and she jumped out of the car. But her two boys, 3 year old Michael and 14 month old Alex are still in the car. Police begin searching immediately and the nation's media converges on Union, South Carolina for eight days. Susan Smith tells an ever changing story of the carjacking. And friends get irritated when she keeps asking if Tom Findlay has reached out to see Friends wonder why she would care about Finley when her two children are missing. On day nine of intense media pressure, Susan Smith meets with Union County Sheriff Howard Wells and Wells meets with the press.

[Nancy Grace]

Ok, note to self, who is Tom Finley? But there's more. There's more. Listen.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Susan Smith has carried the lie as far as she can. When she finally admits what she's done. There never was a black man with a gun that stole her car with her kids in the back. She now says she went out for a drive with her sons buckled into their car seats in the back, feeling desperate, alone and suicidal. She now says she drove to John D. Long Lake and planned to roll the car into the lake. Smith puts the car in neutral, but instead of going into the lake with the car and the boys, she jumps out and watches the car sink based on her directions for where the car should be. Scuba divers locate the vehicle with the boys in the back still buckled into their seats.

[Nancy Grace]

Just let that soak in for just one moment, claiming, you know, why is it, Chris McDonough, that all these people want to commit suicide, end up killing their children or their family or somebody else, yet they miraculously live?

[Chris McDonough]

I mean, just a horrific thought in of itself, right? Nancy? I mean, I, I actually drove the entire route that Susan Smith took that day. There were ample opportunities for her to change her mind and turn around. I mean, there were stop signs, there were, you know, through residential neighborhoods. And to think that she was saying to the public, you know, or to the police when she initially confessed, well, you know, I thought about committing suicide, but I couldn't do it, et cetera. So I jumped out. You know, when you go to that boat ramp where these poor little babies are strapped in those back seats, and as that car is going down that ramp, I would submit to you she had gotten out of that car almost immediately and let that car go to your point a couple of minutes ago. And as that water started to fill that vehicle, can you imagine the horror that these children were experiencing? And the mother standing there as that vehicle started to sink. It took about six, I think between six to 15 seconds for that vehicle to hit the water. And within a minute it was submerged.

[Tara Malik]

Nancy, it just shows how cold blooded she is. She could stand on the shore, look at the car submerged, and knowing that her babies were drowning. It really gives you insight into how detached and just cold blooded she is.

[Nancy Grace]

Yeah. Who is this woman? Take a listen to our cut3 from.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Crimeonline.Com after high school, she began dating David Smith. Soon there's a baby on the way and the pair decide to get married. Ultimately, they have two boys, Michael Daniel and Alexander Tyler. But the children don't keep the marriage together. The Smiths separate several times. During one of these separations, Susan Smith begins dating Tom Finley, the single son of a wealthy mill owner.

[Nancy Grace]

Aha. So that is who Tom Finley is. Okay. Tara Malik, high profile lawyer, joining us from her own law firm, Smith and Malik. Would that be motive? She wants to be with this rich guy.

[Tara Malik]

Yeah, I think, you know, the. She's painted in different ways during the trial itself, and there was some conflicting testimony. One of the theories of the case that was put on and suspected was that she wanted to be with Thomas Finley. Finley didn't like the fact that, you know, she had two kids and in a way, or in an attempt to get back together with Finley, who she was having an affair with, she drowned her two boys. The other testimony that was presented during the trial was that she was someone who was an abused child. She had had a secret affair with her stepfather. She was frightened of her husband. And so I think those details this jury ended up grappling with. And it's a case that should have been a death penalty case, but unfortunately not here.

[Nancy Grace]

Quote, she always thought it would be fun to be on that show. And that when they put Anna Delvey on the show, Susan felt like maybe it was a possibility. Okay, I had enough of a problem with Anna Delvey, the fake heiress who conned people out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. She showed up on Dancing with historically, and then she blamed Dancing with the Stars for exploiting her. Okay, just these people. I can't make this up. And now Susan Smith is on the Dancing with the Stars train. Oh. Or wants to be. Okay, before she's cast for Dancing with the Stars, can we just take a review of the evidence? Isn't it true, Dave Mack joining us from crimeonline.com that that Finley broke it off with her, claiming he did not want an instant family. He did.

[Chris McDonough]

And Nancy, more to the point, or more than just saying I don't want.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Kids, that there were other things he stated in there about her and their relationship. He also cited their different upbringings and.

[Chris McDonough]

That that was a big stumbling block.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Another one, the way Susan Smith acted and flirted with other men, he didn't like that. So he mentioned three basic things that.

[Chris McDonough]

He really didn't want.

[Ryan Seacrest]

An instant family. But these other two things were mentioned as well. And one was her own behavior of hitting on other men. But she dismisses that in her thought process, blames it all on the kids and thinks she's been getting back. If she just gets rid of that, she doesn't address the fact that she.

[Chris McDonough]

Hits on men all the time.

[Nancy Grace]

So let me understand something, Dave Mack. She met Finley, the son of the rich guy, when she and her husband were what? Divorced? Separated. What?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Separated.

[Chris McDonough]

They actually, when they were married, they.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Had several full on separations where they were not living together, were dating other people and. And yet they would then get back together. And it was on and off for, I think, I mean after they had the last time, he was 14 months old while this happened. So it was an ongoing process in their relationship that breaking up, getting back together.

[Nancy Grace]

Let me go back to Dr. Bethany Marshall. What do you make of this? It was always presented that Finley broke up with her because he didn't want an instant family. But according to the letter he sent her before she murdered her two little boys, it was a lot more than that.

[Tara Malik]

He's probably minimizing it because now he has the scrutiny of the country and the court and saying, well, I didn't really want her anyway. But there's partially, I think a half truth in that. Maybe he wasn't ready for a family and children and he was contemplating that. And I think Susan Smith was the kind of woman who would just ignore the fact that he didn't want to be with her. She would think, oh, you know, I'll buy a new dress. Oh, I'll go shopping. Oh, I'll buy some lipstick. I'll wear a low cut dress. Oh, I'll just kill my children. I mean just. She would just throw everything at it to get him back. So I think if he was ambivalent about her, that may have even incentivized her to kill her children.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, I obviously need to reword my question. There were other behaviors he found disturbing which led to his decision to break it off with her. Not only that he did not want an instant family, but he did not like the way she acted, acted promiscuously with other guys. He didn't want that.

[Tara Malik]

I think some women relate primarily to men because they feel they can seduce them. And I think this was probably her M.O. that the minute she met a man she would be flirtatious, she would be overly sexualized, she would try to attract them. She probably did that all the time because this is a way of feeling important. Like she's a real person in the real world and she, she doesn't really have to relate to the men. If it's sexual in an instant, then they never become real people to her. They're all just objects, love objects who flatter her.

[Nancy Grace]

Listen, I cut four.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Susan Smith is planning a future with the best catch in the county. When she gets a Dear John letter from Dear Tom, he explains he doesn't think the relationship will work because of the difference in their upbringing, the way she acts towards other men, and he doesn't want an instant family. He doesn't want children right now. Susan dismisses her upbringing or her behavior towards other men as possible deal breakers in the relationship. And the only thing she sees is Tom Finley doesn't want children.

[Nancy Grace]

So she ignores everything except the children part of the complaint. And then suddenly, poof, they're gone. In the last days, Susan Smith back in the news. Apparently having a romantic relationship with at least six men behind bars. Okay, what does that mean? Well, there are precursors to today's report of Susan smith's relationships with six guys. What precursors? Well, listen to our cut 10.

[Ryan Seacrest]

A tabloid news report claiming Susan Smith had been beaten by guards at a prison in South Carolina gave birth to an investigation into the matter. While there was no proof she had been beaten, Smith told prison investigators that she had four sexual encounters with Lt. Houston Cagle, a supervisor at South Carolina's Women's Correctional Institution where she's confined. Cagle admitted having sex with Smith and another prisoner and was charged with the offense in August of 2000. Smith was 28 at the time and was disciplined for having sex with the guard while 50 year old Kegle pleaded guilty and spent three months in jail. In 2001, a prison captain, Alfred Rowe, also pleaded guilty to having sex with Smith and was sentenced to five years probation. It was then discovered that Susan Smith engaged in sexual relations with Cagle after she tested positive for an std.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, so she claims I was beaten, and that spawns an investigation. But it turns out she wasn't beaten. She was sleeping with various prison guards. Just got Morgan. Remind me, what is it like to drown? You're the death investigator.

[Joe Scott Morgan]

One of the most horrible deaths that you can even begin to think about. And the fact is, the thing that's always bothered me about this case, Nancy, is that with Alex and Michael. And I think it's really important that I say their names at this moment in time because they are the victims. When they were strapped in those little seats in the back of that Mazda in that tight little confined place where maybe their mother had taken them to McDonald's before taking them all over town. And suddenly they're at the edge of a boat ramp and they're thinking, you know, what's mama doing now? You know, she gets out of the car, and as that car is left in neutral and goes down that boat ramp and begins to slowly sink beneath those dark waters out there, you know, they found that car at about 120ft off of the shore. The dive team had looked for it for some period of time. Car was filled with water. Those kids were still strapped in that backseat. And our reaction as humans, if we're trying to catch our breath, is to fight. And just imagine this, Nancy. They're strapped. We've all got babies in our families that we've taken care of. We strapped them in car seats. And you ever seen a child struggle to get out of the car seat? They're tired of being in it. Well, imagine that. Only water's creeping up on you. Water's getting into your nose, your little mouth, your eyes. You're running out of oxygen. Your brain is screaming. It's on fire because there's no oxygen. You can't catch your breath, and you have no idea. It's panic that's setting in, and it would not have been. I just wanted to spell any kind of fantasy somebody might be having right now that this was a sudden and a quick death. It wasn't. It was torturous. It was absolutely horrific what these babies went through at that moment. Tom, Nancy. And I'm with you. I. I'm still, to this day, just befuddled.

[Nancy Grace]

Why?

[Joe Scott Morgan]

Why? She's not sitting on death row and, you know, forever and ever, she's getting going with her life now, isn't she? And those babies died. Died at this monster's hands out there in that. Out there in that lake, knowing full.

[Nancy Grace]

Well what she did, immediately running to a nearby home, claiming that an unknown male had jumped into her car. And I guess the only red light in the county. And I feel okay saying that, because where I grew up, we didn't even have a red light. So out of the entire county, an unknown assailant jumps into her car at the one red light, takes her car and murders her children. Okay, this is the woman these guys want to be with. Speaking of them, there's the matter of Captain Alfred Rowe. Now, we heard about Cagle. Cagle, a supervisor at South Carolina Women's CI Correctional Institute, and what happened with him. We know that he was ultimately identified because Susan Smith turned up with an STD behind bars. But there's more. Take a listen to our cut 11. Does she not realize there are consequences to actions?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Captain Alfred Smith was one of the guards who lost their careers after having sex with Susan Smith behind bars. Rose says Smith is a master manipulator, telling Inside Edition that Smith approached him at three in the morning telling him she thought he was the nicest officer at the prison and that she was lonely. The former guard says things just escalated from there. Rowe claims he only had sex with Smith one time, but it cost him everything. He was fired from the job, lost his pension, and after pleading guilty to having sex with Smith, he was sentenced to five years probation.

[Nancy Grace]

Take a listen hour cut 12 sex.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Isn'T the only issue Susan Smith has faced in prison. Twice in 2010 and once in 2015, Susan Smith was disciplined on drug charges, losing privileges for more than a year. Susan Smith's drug use escalated when she switched prisons from Camille Graham Correctional center in Columbia, South Carolina to Leith Correctional Institution in Greenwood, South Carolina. Former prison guard Alfred Rowe, who pleaded guilty to having sex with Smith at the prison, told the TV show Cellmate Secrets when Smith was moved from one prison to another that it was at that point where she could no longer get the male attention that she used as a drug and instead turned to.

[Nancy Grace]

Pill, which led to a series of drug infractions.

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[Chris McDonough]

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To another guy. Susan Smith writes behind bars. She's raking in thousands of dollars a month. She spends hours on the phone having phone sex, sending over 20 texts a day to these guys. Quote, I want to be with you when I get out. I think we all know what that means. Thank you for the funds. They will come in handy. What is she doing with the money? Behind bars? What can you really do with that? Her little boys, Michael and Alexander, were strapped into the car by their seatbelts when they were drowned, screaming for Mommy. That's the last human face they saw as she rolled the car into a lake. She asked another guy if he would support her when she was paroled. Then he does this big spreadsheet. Listen to what this guy says. I'll tell you what I did last night thinking of you. I'm sure he was thinking of you. Okay. I can't even describe what he was doing while he was thinking of her. I made a spreadsheet that starts out with $213,000. You're going to have more than that. I think you'll be in the $220,000 range. All put together, you can spend 40,000 a year. While you're withdrawing from that balance, it's still earning interest on the undrawn amount. In 20 years, you will have spent most of that, but you'll still have some left. Smith sighs after a pause and says, I love you so much. He says, I love you, too. And then they make kissy sounds. Okay, quick, bring back the vomit bag. This is who Susan Smith really is. The narrative her story that she projects is so different from reality. Life has not passed her by. She committed double murder. That's what happened. It's not anyone's fault but her own.

[Tara Malik]

Absolutely. I mean, and if life passed her by, how does she characterize what she did to her son? She took their life away. They didn't even have the opportunity to live a life. I mean, these were really young kids here. And I think, you know, the pattern of behavior that she's exhibited, like the infractions that she's picked up while she's been in prison, I mean, all of this doesn't tend to show that this is someone who has been rehabilitated while in prison. I mean, she's still showing those signs of manipulation that, you know, she engaged in before she was convicted and sentenced. You know, leading on the nation for nine days, telling lies about what actually happened, telling lies and pointing fingers at people that didn't exist. So this is a really deeply disturbed individual.

[Nancy Grace]

Chris McDonough with me, a former homicide detective and host of YouTube channel the Interview Room, who has investigated at least 300 homicides. You know, defendants can be very, very charming. Think about Scott Peterson or Dr. Martin McNeil, who killed his wife, a beauty queen, according to Susan Smith's family. They say, quote, she seems to be happy and that she, quote, always had a messy love life. She's creating a fictional version of her life, and people are buying it. These guys, these lonely hearts are buying it and attempting to have, let me just say, romantic interludes with her. Chris McDonough, have you ever met a charming murder defendant? Because I have.

[Chris McDonough]

Absolutely, Nancy. And what's interesting about her is we have to always remember that all behavior has a purpose and that past behavior is usually an indication of future behavior. So she has always, you know, throughout her entire case and through her life here while in prison and even before prison, she always, sometimes projected the words of they into her vocabulary. And if you, if we listen real carefully to the minutiae of what she said in the very beginning. Whoever they are, please bring them home. That is, she's talking about two suspects, but she talks about one in terms of a description. And now if we fast forward that to today, we have six individuals, men who, quite frankly, I can't figure that piece of the puzzle out. You know, that's. That's for the doctors to tell us what that's all about. But she is utilizing that behavior still to this day by talking about money, by talking about sexual, you know, tiffs there between the two of them. And she hasn't lost a spot from.

[Nancy Grace]

Ms. Leopard, you know, Joe, Scott Morgan, maybe we just know too much when it comes to murder. Because when I think of Susan Smith, I immediately think of being trapped, strapped into a car as it's going down a ramp and going underwater and seeing the water coming up on either side and starting to pour in through the windshields, comes up around you and you can't get out. I mean, the children in the case were three and 14 months.

[Joe Scott Morgan]

They never stood a chance within this, this environment. And here, here's another thing that, that people might not be aware of after that car dip beneath the surface of that water. One other element we have to consider. And again, I go back to the idea that we all have had babies, you know, parents, that sort of thing. I've got, you know, kids and grandkids whom I love dearly. And what is it the kids are afraid of? Late at night? It's darkness. And it would. You would not have been able to have seen your hand in front of your face. So not only are they absent a loving mother who normally you would hope would take care of them, they're. They're disoriented, they're running out of breath. And it's dark, Nancy. It's cold and it's dark down there. And that's. That goes to the level of horror that they're, that they're, you know, experiencing.

[Nancy Grace]

Susan Smith. Just go ahead and rake in all the money you want, but good luck enjoying it behind bars. Do you ever even think of your two little boys that you murdered? I do. Nancy Grace signing off. Good night, friend.

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