Crime Roundup_ Inside the Zone 7 Live 10-8 Event at Manuel’s Tavern, and the 10-

Summary

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: Crime Roundup – Inside the Zone 7 Live 10-8 Event at Manuel’s Tavern

Date: March 8, 2026

Overview

This episode takes listeners inside the vibrant and emotionally charged "Zone 7 Live 10-8 Event" at Manuel’s Tavern, hosted by Cheryl McCollum with guests Joshua Schiffer, Franz Borghardt, and their true-crime colleagues. The episode celebrates the legacy of Zone 7—the legendary Atlanta gathering spot for legal professionals—and explores the camaraderie, storytelling, and life experiences of a community deeply involved in the justice system. The episode is rich with personal tales, lessons learned, and the power of in-person connection, featuring memorable moments with Nancy Grace herself.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Manuel's Tavern Gathering – Community & Atmosphere

• Historic Venue: Manuel's is described as a “legendary political cop, protest bar for 50 years” (04:25), setting the ideal scene for an organic and authentic gathering.
• Event Approach: Unlike standard panels dissecting cases, the event focused on gathering in a single room to share meals, swap stories, and discuss backgrounds—just like old times at “the original Zone 7.”
• Diverse Attendance: Attendees came from multiple states and backgrounds: former/current prosecutors, defense attorneys, crime scene experts, and detectives.

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2. Notable Stories from Legal Careers

Franz Borghardt’s Serial Killer Case

• Working With Serial Killers: Franz shares the story of defending Jeffrey Guillory, Baton Rouge’s third serial killer, and what it felt like prepping and trying a high-profile DNA case.
  • “I just told the story about what it was like to sit next to a serial killer for two weeks...” (08:32)
• On Witness Connections: Points out the tangled connections among victims and killers, with a defense that involved another serial killer, Sean Gillis.

The C Murder Representation

• Media Impact: Franz represented rapper C Murder, with legal strategies colored by the client’s reputation and public image.
  • “What do you do when your client’s on video with a gun...You lean into what you got.” (10:09)

Storytelling & Law—The Jerry Spence Trial Lawyers College

• Emotional Storytelling: Josh and Franz discuss how emotional storytelling, not technical prowess, is the bedrock of effective trial work.
  • “Stories are about feelings. And we have been conditioned by our culture, by our universe, to tamp down so much of our natural expressiveness...” (12:14)
• Psychodrama in Law: The college used “psychodrama” and group therapy-like methods for trial preparation and personal growth.
  • “If you can teach lawyers to...paint visceral pictures...it’s going to make them more effective trial lawyers.” (15:21)

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3. Breaking Down Professional Barriers

• Importance of Cross-Field Friendships: The event’s inclusive spirit is highlighted—defense attorneys, cops, detectives, and prosecutors learning together.
  • “I hear rookies say, I would never be friends with a defense attorney...Baby, you’re gonna need one.” (22:41, Cheryl)
• Collaboration Over Adversarialism: “We’re on the same team, really. Because...Josh is going to keep me honest; he’s going to keep me doing my job the best I can.” (23:27)

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4. Memorable Event Moments

Nancy Grace’s Audience Q&A

• Open Floor: Nancy Grace arrived, electrified the room, and took every audience question, rather than telling old stories.
  • “She must have taken a hundred questions. As long as you have questions, y’all...” (36:56, Cheryl)
  • “It was like you’re on the show. It was real Nancy. There was no gentle hand. No, it was the real Nancy.” (37:00, Josh; 37:10, Cheryl)

Gerion Shepherd’s Case Story

• Emotional Resonance: Detective Shepherd’s recounting of the Melissa Wolfenberger case—a professional low point for Cheryl—became a room highlight for its vulnerability and humility.
  • “To me, the Clark Kent Superman of that event was that detective.” (34:11, Franz)
• Audience Reaction: “He literally took about four steps back from that microphone.” (33:50, Cheryl)
  • “My daughter...thought he was the best speaker of everybody because he was so authentic and real.” (34:50, Josh)

Community Spirit & Fan Gratitude

• Gifts & Kindness: Stories of fan-made pins, gifts, and the gesture of Josh’s signature glasses distributed at CrimeCon in his absence.
  • “There’s 500 people in that room all wearing his glasses.” (30:31, Cheryl)

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5. Reflections on the True Crime Community

• Not a Planned Career: Both Josh and Franz reflect on how they became fixtures of the true crime world by accident—drawn by genuine interest, not by design.
• Shared Purpose: The event’s emotional high points come from a sense of belonging among people who “care about the same stuff that you do.” (43:26, Josh)
• The “10-8” Tour Concept: The tour name symbolizes being “ready for the next call”—a metaphor for continuous curiosity and public service in crime work.
  • “I’m done with my last call. I’m ready for the next call. In other words, I’m open, I’m ready, I’m available. What’s next?” (41:07, Cheryl)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Manuel’s Tavern:

  • “You could not have picked a better spot. It was perfect for what we wanted.” – Cheryl (03:25)

• On the Value of Legal Friendships:

  • “If you are hanging out with people that do not have the best for you in mind...get rid of them. There are good people out there. You’re listening to two of them right now.” – Cheryl (45:20)

• On Professional Crossover:

  • “It doesn’t have to be in the courtroom. It’s war outside of the courtroom. It doesn’t have to be, and it shouldn’t be.” – Franz (23:50)

• On Nancy Grace:

  • “She walks in and it got popping. Like, people were really, really excited.” – Josh (37:25)
  • “That is—It is not an act.” – Franz (37:55)

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Chronological Highlights with Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic/Event | Speaker | |---------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------| | 02:38 | Welcome to Zone 7 at Manuel’s; overview of intent | Cheryl McCollum | | 04:25 | Venue history and atmosphere | Josh, Cheryl | | 07:38 | Franz’s Baton Rouge serial killer defense story | Franz Borghardt | | 10:09 | C Murder case: defense through media and promotion angles | Franz, Josh | | 12:14 | Storytelling and emotional connection in trial law | Josh | | 15:21 | Jerry Spence Trial Lawyers College & psychodrama in legal storytelling | Josh, Franz | | 22:41 | The necessity of cross-profession relationships in criminal justice | Cheryl | | 23:50 | Personal friendship & professional support—even among courtroom "opponents" | Franz | | 33:45 | Detective Shepherd’s moving story and audience reaction | Cheryl, Franz, Josh | | 36:56 | Nancy Grace’s open Q&A, audience engagement | Cheryl, Josh | | 41:07 | Introduction of the “10-8” (Ten Eight) tour and its meaning | Cheryl | | 42:12 | Franz’s closing reflections on the uniqueness and power of these live event gatherings | Franz | | 43:06 | Josh’s personal reflections on community, transformation, and the true crime world | Josh | | 45:20 | Cheryl’s closing advice on choosing your community wisely | Cheryl | | 45:34 | Episode closes with a quote on friendship and partnership | Cheryl |

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Tone & Language

The language is warm, colloquial, and candid, infused with Southern humor and deep camaraderie. Speakers share openly, joke with one another, and move between laughter and poignant reflection. The tone is encouraging—emphasizing the importance of support, learning, and choosing your community.

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Summary

This episode is a love letter to the true crime community's heart—its people, its stories, and the meaningful relationships that fuel a life in criminal justice. By giving listeners a seat at the Zone 7 table, it reveals that beneath every infamous case and TV moment are human connections—sometimes forged in adversity, always strengthened by honesty, storytelling, and shared purpose. The “10-8 Tour” is more than an event series; it’s a call to openness, resilience, and curiosity—inviting everyone to “be ready for the next call.”

Transcript

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[Cheryl McConnell]

Y'. All. Welcome to Zone 7. Tonight is going to be a party is all I can tell you. I got Joshua Schiffer and Franz Borghardt. Y' all ain't ready. If you're driving, you might need to pull over. I'm telling you, we have just had one of the best evenings I have ever had at Manuel's Tavern, the original Zone 7.

[Josh]

You don't remember many of those. I should just note, like, the memory level at Manuel's is. Is. Is brief.

[Cheryl McConnell]

That's valid. That's valid.

[Josh]

I quit drinking 2008. Even I've got nights that I don't remember there.

[Cheryl McConnell]

Right.

[Josh]

That spot is let. You could not have picked a better spot.

[Cheryl McConnell]

It was perfect for what we wanted. And Josh, when we first started talking about doing this and we were like, yes, let's do it. There's no doubt. We've got to, you know, have our other friends. And y', all, we invited, you know, Gerion shepherd and Susan Hendricks and Joe Scott Morgan and of course, Franz. He's with us tonight. Like we said. And Nancy Grace, y'.

[Ryan Reynolds]

All.

[Cheryl McConnell]

The walls came off the place. I'm just telling you people, they thought they were ready. They thought they knew what this event was going to be. But let me just give you all a brief little thing. We decided instead of doing our normal thing where we take a case and kind of dissect it for you, we thought let's do a real zone 7. Let's do what we used to do at Manuel's Tavern, and it's all get in one room and, you know, have a meal together and share some stories and talk about our cases that are well known or unknown and talk about our background. How did we get here? And Josh, they were not disappointed, were they?

[Josh]

It was awesome because so from the. I've never done this before, don't know quite what to expect and have drug Franz and, you know, I brought my daughter and I'm like, all right, we're going to go do this. It was amazing because it was super organic because of just who was there. Like, you walk in and this was just an ideal venue because it's super friendly. It's this historic bar. For people that don't know this is one of those legendary Atlanta bars. It's actually, you know, on the east side over towards Decatur. But it's been a legendary political cop, you know, protest bar for 50 years. And it's got this great room. And I walked in at 5:30 and it was just packed. Every single table was full. The whole room turns around and starts chattering and seeing the. And you're like, what is this? But it just started off with, hey, let's start talking, telling some stories. And the next thing you know, it was just story after story from people who just wanted to show up and share.

[Cheryl McConnell]

Absolutely.

[Josh]

They really cool experience for. For me. And I definitely the feedback from the audience was just overwhelming.

[Cheryl McConnell]

Overwhelming. But y' all in the Most classic Zone 7 fashion. Josh and Franz are talking. I get in this little group chat, and Franz is like, no, I'm coming. This will be great. I've already booked my ticket. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. If you're coming, oh, you're going to be front and center, sugar. There ain't no doubt. People are going to lose their mind. And he's like, no, no. And support. I am background. I wasn't having that. No siree. If he was coming and he's already bought a ticket, y' all think he ain't gonna get behind that microphone if I've got breath in my lungs. So let me tell you, he let off for us because poor Dave Mack from Body Bags. Dave was coming. Dave had a flat tire on i20 trying to get here from Alabama.

[Josh]

Oh, yeah.

[Cheryl McConnell]

You know, Franz is like, hey, not a problem. He starts us off. Franz, would you please tell everybody how you just got to the microphone. Not a note card, not an outline, and just commanded that room so beautifully.

[Franz Borghardt]

Well, you're. You're very sweet to say all those wonderfully kind things. And it is true that I bought the ticket. Not to be. You know, I like making things about me. I like it. Josh will tell you, Franzi loves Franzi.

[Josh]

He's good at it.

[Franz Borghardt]

But I really did buy the ticket so that I could just come and visit and watch the show, because like anybody, I'm into this. Standing up in that room, though, I'll say this, it was like having a conversation with a bunch of friends about cases and things in the system. And what I really liked was the fact that you had an intermingling of all sorts of law enforcement. You had former prosecutors, prosecutors, defense attorneys. You had crime scene folks, a detective. I felt in good company.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Right.

[Franz Borghardt]

You know, and. And I mainly, you know, the funniest was I was sitting there thinking about, okay, what are the cases I want to talk about? And I kind of alluded to, you know, at one point, I represented a guy named C Murder, A rapper named C Murder who was accused of murder. Ain't that a bitch? But the one I enjoy talking about, the one that I gotta tell you guys, the one that kind of kick started my career was the serial killer case I was on in Baton Rouge. And I geeked out on that case that we had three killers. We had three serial killers. All three have been convicted in Baton Rouge. And I represented the third of the three, Jeffrey Guillory and So I just told the story about what it was like to sit next to a serial killer for two weeks and try a case and to prep a case. And the funniest was, my defense was that the victim in the case, God rest her soul, actually knew and hung out with another of the serial killers. She was an associate of Sean Gillis. Sean Gillis in fact, referenced her when he was spilling his guts and confessing to his crimes. Now, of course, he didn't kill her. He didn't confess, confessed to killing her, but that certainly didn't stop me from pointing the finger. But you know, ultimately, at the end of the day, in good old fashioned criminal forensic style, that was a DNA case.

[Cheryl McConnell]

And you know what's so crazy? I didn't even know you represented C Murder. And when you said that, I'm like, I can remember being on Nancy Gray saying, well, that's going to be a workaround right there. That's the first thing you got to get over with that jury.

[Franz Borghardt]

The best part, the best part of that case was our case was he shot, it was all on video. He shot a gun at a nightclub. Now, it really wasn't a murder case, but he had a murder case in another parish and it was all on video. He walks into the door, they metal detect him and he doesn't want to empty his pockets because he has a gun on him. And essentially, essentially it leads to a shooting. But that's not the best part. The best part was the club owner, the true victim of the crime, sued him and his label claiming that it was a promotion to a record that he had coming out so that the whole thing was really not real.

[Josh]

It was Chase, that money man Chase, Right. So our defense for money.

[Franz Borghardt]

So our defense. After that civil suit was filed, our defense became, yeah, this really wasn't an attempted murder. This was a promotional item because what do you do, guys? What do you do when your clients on video with a gun, firing a gun? You lean into what you got.

[Josh]

Yeah, no, you got, you got to work with. Brilliant. You got to work with it ultimately

[Franz Borghardt]

on that case before, before everybody came to their senses and we started picking a jury. He ended up pleading. He ended up pleading to the club shooting because his bigger, his bigger fish to fry was the murder case in the other par. And ultimately we got him a wonderful deal on, on. And look, being called C Murder, he. He didn't do himself any favors. Right? So it was, look, bigger picture, guys. Bigger picture. Cheryl, it was so much fun getting to hang out. I mean, the highlight for me was little old me sitting there talking on the mic. Nancy Grace comes in at the beginning of my talk, and she, of course, now knows who I am. Which, how funny is that that Nancy Grace knows who Franz Borkard is. She made a comment about, oh, boycott's on the mic. I got that story for the rest of my life, guys. Thank you.

[Cheryl McConnell]

But you know, Josh, you and I were sitting there at one point and we're like, you know what? There are people in this room that came from Indiana and Ohio and Louisiana, not just Franz, but other people from Louisiana and Florida and of course, Georgia. Crazy. It was unbelievable. But, you know, when you took the mic. Let me tell you something.

[Josh]

Oh, stop.

[Cheryl McConnell]

But, but this is what I love. Not only do you start telling the stories, but you're so great at incorporating what you did at your trial college, that camp, that inclusive. Here we all are, and again, giving homage to your mentor. And that, I think, set the tone for that room with you to say, wait a minute, they're telling us intimate stories. How did I get here? How do I frame a case? I'm going to tell you. And I loved that story.

[Josh]

I have a firm belief that, that not necessarily the technical parts of trial or. But the personal parts of trial lawyering can be done by any single person, given some time and attention. There is not an intelligence floor that you must be this smart to tell a good story, because stories are. Are about feelings. And we have been conditioned by our culture, by our universe, to tamp down so much of our natural expressiveness, the expressiveness that would exist without the artificial constructs we gotta actually work at. How do you let that storytelling out? And the best way to do that is to show it. And that's what I try to do with any talk, is just think about, you know, this room, these people, what. What stories are they going to want to be engaged in and listen to? Because if you're paying attention to your listener, that that's going to get you to tell a story that, that means something to them. It's. You're approaching it from. From their perspective. And I just love when you're, like Franz said, in this incredible room of people that was warm and trustworthy and was there out of genuine interest and care. These were people that. That have the connections that I think are really special and that I want to know about. So I just like being with those kinds of people.

[Franz Borghardt]

Well, and let me, Let me add this. Josh and I know each other because of the Jerry Spence Trial Lawyers College. I met Josh at one of their graduate programs in Wyoming. We, in fact, had a dorm right next to each other. We smoked cig with each other. And what few people know is it was such a wonderful experience. We got to bring cases up with us and nobody knows. Josh knows, because he was there. At one point, it was Jerry Spence working with us on cases that were tough and complex. And I raised my hand, I was a public defender raised my hand and said, Mr. Spence, how do you void deer if your client is accused of being a serial killer? And to his credit, he was like, well, that's a good question. Is your client a serial killer? You know, and we've waded here. I had Jerry Spence working on a case. Josh is in the room and small world.

[Josh]

And that's the special magic of some of those gatherings and the power of a group. Because that universe, especially when Jerry was there and active in the college, it was the best group of lawyers the world could have met. The volunteer staff were people that, you know, literally former U.S. attorneys, some of the most famous military attorneys of all time. The legends of personal injury, the guys that literally get the gigantic front page news verdicts. And then for that 15, 20 years, you couldn't pick up the newspaper and see a big legal issue without being like, I bet I know a trial lawyer's college person that was associated with that in some way. And it's because Jerry teaches all about the storytelling and teaches that how are you gonna tell your client's story if you can't tell your story? And the way that you find your story is by doing self examination. And this is where a lot of people get kind of ickied out, because there's a lot of what can be graciously described as group therapy, where you use these psychological tools called psychodrama to act out and to put into motion different parts of lives, different storytellings. And those tools are being used therapeutically to tell the lawyer's stories. And I think that all lawyers to a degree, are broken people. So we get the benefit of kind of doing therapy with each other. But at the same time, those tools of putting emotions and feelings into action, in reaching back through time and space, in painting visceral pictures of incidents, if you can teach lawyers to do that, it's going to make them more effective trial lawyers. And that's what we all became. And I can go down a list of a couple hundred of us that are some of the most prominent lawyers in the nation. And we all have that kind of special connection. And I remember vividly the young Franz public defender. There's a funny story about Franz in a tent. And there was a lack of space. So Franz was going to maybe be in this big old army tent. And we're like, franz, no, man, we'll get your room in the dorm. And he goes, no, no, I'm good in the tent. And we're like, no, no, France, man. This is the middle of nowhere, Wyoming. Like, this is east of the Continental Divide. You walk off the ranch, you gone die. Like it is next to the native reservation. Franz is like, no, no, no, I'm good in the tent. We're like, no, dude, come on, come into the barn, man. We got room. I know. Well, there was only one other person that was in the tent. And this was a large tent. This was a military grade tent, like with rooms and stuff. And just so happened that the other person staying in the tent was one of the more beautiful and striking prominent lawyers that had been attracted. And it was like, oh, never mind. Franz gets to see her all day and night. Gotcha. Never mind.

[Cheryl McConnell]

Franz is a wilderness man. All of a sudden. I got you.

[Josh]

I'm good in a tent.

[Franz Borghardt]

I'm good in a tent. Girl, let me say this. It's July in the middle of Wyoming. Teton mountains are in the background and it's snowing in July. And for the tent, they had set up a shower outside of the tent in a little box space. And I'm like taking it. And keep in mind, part of this sounds, if it sounds a little ridiculous. They set up the tent. Yeah, they set up the tent in part because they were letting indigent defenders come to this event and who couldn't afford their offices, couldn't afford the cost of the tuition there, so they would give out scholarships. And hey, if you're willing to sleep in a tent, we're going to knock off a little bit of your tuition costs. And I was like, to learn from Jerry Spence and some of the best attorneys in the country. I'll sleep outside. Done. And that's. It was just. It. You can't. We're not doing it justice describing it, but I remember sitting around a bonfire at one point, Cheryl, in the middle of July, and I'm like, you know, I'm from South Louisiana, and I'm like, what are these little white flaky things coming down? It was snowing in July.

[Cheryl McConnell]

Oh, my word.

[Josh]

It's so wild that there's literally someone hears about a bear and it's like, all right, guys, there's a bear. Everybody be Quiet you. It is wild. It is beyond wild. You can look it up. It's the Wind river area of, of Wyoming. There's actually a movie about it like the Wind River Killer or something like that. But yeah, it's the most beautiful, striking, desolate landscape ever. And it's 50 to 75 lawyers taking care of each other completely stripped of all the pretense of all the shenanigans. We do our own dishes, we clean our own bathrooms. Like it. It was a real special, special way that we all learned these tools. And that's really what I like talking about are those tools because they can be applied throughout your life with storytelling. And that's what good lawyering is. It's why I think we like true crime, we like good stories. The drama of humanity is a universal touchstone that very clearly a lot of people that think like me and I get along with enjoy the true crime universe because of those stories. That's what drives us and it's, it's why this is so enjoyable for us.

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[Cheryl McConnell]

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[Cheryl McConnell]

favorite story is Franz basically saying to you, josh, you touch my luggage, I'll kill you. Yeah, I think that's the funniest thing I've ever heard. No, no, I'm good in the tent, trust me. But, you know, Zone seven is that way. The original manuals was that for me. We had defense attorneys, we had probation officers and crime scene investigators and detectives. Everybody's at the same table enjoying the stories, enjoying the conversation and learning from each other. And when I hear, you know, the younger rookies and younger detectives today talking about, I would never be friends with a defense attorney. A baby. You're going to need one. You're going to need one one day, somehow, either you or somebody you love. And to. Why in the world does it have to be that? It's not us against them. We're on the same team, really. Because the way I look at Josh is Josh is going to keep me honest. He's going to keep me doing my job the best that I can.

[Franz Borghardt]

Let me say this. And Josh, you may have experienced something similar. Some of my best client referrals have been from law enforcement or prosecutors who found out that they had someone in their lives that needed help. And look, I ain't going to get religious, you know, I'm not religious, Josh. But I will say it happened this week. I had one of my law enforcement buddies who's retired reach out to me because his son may have cancer. And he was like, would you say a prayer for my son? And I'm like, you damn right I will. Done. So it doesn't have to be in the courtroom. It's war outside of the courtroom. It doesn't have to be, and it shouldn't be. And candidly, if we're all doing our jobs right, I mean, I want to be able to go up to a forensic scientist and say, hey, let's talk about this, you know, and, and, and for them and I to be able to have an intellectually honest conversation about like. Like something that is just something that we both find to be fascinating and interesting and especially on cases we're not really working. Those are the best conversations.

[Cheryl McConnell]

That's right. That's right. And that's when the real work can get done. Let's all get in a room, tell the truth, figure out the best course of action. Everybody don't need to go to jail.

[Josh]

And the learning like that, if you want to increase your. Your. The. The. The quality of your work product, whatever that is, as an officer, as an investigator, as A lawyer, you being exposed to other good practitioners is where you just get it. You can read it in a book. It is nothing like the experience of being there. And that also gets to the magic of the moment. Going back to what Cheryl was talking about a few minutes ago with the original gatherings at Manny's, you can never create that magical moment again. That's something that I learned through Trialloris College, was we try to haunt these memories and recreate. And it took getting to the piece that, nope, that magic was that moment. And that serendipity and bit of creation. Not to get too religious, that moment of creation is truly unique, and it will never be that way again. And that is a good, positive memory, and it can serve as an inspiration for future gatherings. But rather than go recreate, let's just go back and honor and care about those times that we had. And that helps us process and remember the most important parts from it. Because when we've gotten to the idea of that's done, that's wrapped up, that was a discrete moment, we can fully process it, get the lessons from it, and then apply in the future, trying to get back to those parts that make us feel so special, that really bring us together. Because that moment, when you all are just connected and doing the right stuff, doing the work, getting forward, man, you feel it. It's special.

[Cheryl McConnell]

And, you know, you couldn't deny what was happening in that room, because for me, several things were just. It transcended anything we thought was going to happen. But watching Franz with Jackie Howard, I loved that they were laughing, they were talking about Nancy. I'm sure they were just cute as they could be. But to be together in that room, in that moment was so special.

[Josh]

It was awesome. It was real, and it was such an honor to be here.

[Cheryl McConnell]

It was such a good.

[Josh]

It was so, like, I have my little cute. The pinbacks actually arrive tomorrow. A young fan made me the most adorable little clay set of glasses that I'm making a pin out of and crocheted this incredible little glasses holder that sits next to my bed. The nicest people and just seeing everybody and, like, I don't get to see Susan Hendricks all the time. Like, I bump into her every once in a while, but, like, that's what

[Cheryl McConnell]

I was getting to. The second thing I enjoyed was the two of y'.

[Greenlight Announcer]

All.

[Cheryl McConnell]

Oh, my gosh, she is one of the most generous, kind, fun. But the two of y', all, I just enjoyed that dynamic just watching, okay, all of these people that I love and I respect. And I'm friends with. We're all in the same room, and something really good is fixing to happen.

[Franz Borghardt]

The funniest piece for me was I was talking to Ms. Jackie and she's like, are you going to crime con? And I looked at her And I said, Ms. Jackie, I don't really consider myself a true crime guy. And she looked at me like I had horns on my head. And I said, I. I just don't. I don't see myself that way. And she, she was like, are you full of shit or something? Like, like, you know, and it. And it was really funny because she's like pulling up true crime. The, the, the. The crimecon advertisement on her first phone's like, you going to this fr. Right? And I was like, yes, Ms. Jackie. Yes.

[Josh]

It's going to be a crime con like no other.

[Cheryl McConnell]

Like no other.

[Josh]

I'm. I'm. See, people don't understand Franz, and until recently, me had a full day job. Like, Franz is going to get up and go to work tomorrow and do like, the whole full day lawyer thing all day. And then when he gets a break in the action, Court TVs kind of always asking him, hey, can you jump on this hour? Can you jump on this hour? Every one of the hosts adores Franz. Then he got names. That's all literally, like the Franz hobby. Because, because he's. He and I kind of share that same mentality. It's so fun to see how huge that true crime universe is, because it's not something. And I think I speak for Franz, that we ever were like, hey, let's go do this true crime. No, it totally dropped in the lap because of genuine enjoyment and genuine. And we, we both really like this stuff.

[Cheryl McConnell]

But when y' all walked in that room and got the attention that y' all did from all of those people, you had to be uber aware that, hey, wait a minute. They know who we are. Like, last year, you couldn't make it to CrimeCon because you had a major trial, but you sent gifts for everybody. You called me and said, hey, there's a box for you. I sent it to the hotel. Get it. You'll know what to do with it when you open it. I open this gigantic box, y'.

[Greenlight Announcer]

All.

[Cheryl McConnell]

It's his glasses, the round red ones, the green ones, the blue ones, the yellow ones. So I go to the session that I've got with Barbara Butcher. There's 500 people in that room all wearing his glasses.

[Josh]

It was so cool, but they were

[Cheryl McConnell]

so touched that you would think of them, even in your absence. And what, what did you get? You got a pin of your glasses? Because her mama brought those glasses home.

[Josh]

And one very nice woman literally brought those glasses from Crime Con. I it man. I'm just a Josh. I'm hanging around. I'm a, I'm a single dad with a great 14 year old. I know people think I lead some sort of crazy. Nope. I'm a regular man. I drove a truck. The love and care, those feel so awesome. Like it just, it really is moving and I, I lap it up. I love that kind of care. I'll be greedy about it. They're the nicest people.

[Cheryl McConnell]

When I say how, you know, generous Susan Hendricks is, I'm not kidding. She brought books for everybody, charged no one.

[Josh]

And people don't get exactly how brave the career pivot that she did. Like she totally could have gone and done some fluffy stuff. And she is a deeply accomplished broadcaster. She's got a built in audience. Someone will pay her a very reasonable living to be on the air somewhere. She didn't do that. And she didn't do, oh, here's true crime. I'm going to go do this stint. No, she picked a case that really meant something and I don't believe anybody could go deeper than she has. And I think she's going to be the expert on something that I still believe. There's chapters and chapters of the Delphi story waiting to get told. It is. It remains an important part of discussion in the general crime and justice universe because of what we all saw happen in a trial that I don't know anybody that should be happy with what we saw.

[Cheryl McConnell]

Agreed. And Franz, you know, another thing that I thought was so great, everybody in that room knew you as a famous defense attorney, but you were once a prosecutor. And of course, Josh, famous defense attorney. But something super cool happened that night. And you know, when I introduced Gerion Shepherd, Detective Shepherd, I didn't know what story he might tell. I didn't know what case or background. And he started talking about Melissa Wolfenberger. And for y' all that don't know, I have a book coming out in May. And this is the case that Jerrion and I worked together. And you know, we got kicked in the teeth. That's all I can tell you. And it was not what we wanted it to be. But when I tell y', all, Susan and Josh and Joe, Scott Morgan and Nancy Grace, every single person helped in some way on this case. Everyone. And so he got up and he started to talk and I don't think he really knew what was going to happen in that room. He didn't know any of the other people. He certainly didn't know any of the guests or fans or people that wanted to participate. He didn't. And Franz, all of a sudden, you and Josh made him feel welcome and relaxed. Joe Scott and Susan made him feel great. Right. And then Franz, when everybody started clapping and several people stood to their feet, he literally took about four steps back from that microphone.

[Franz Borghardt]

That man, let me tell you, we have a lot of personality in the true crime world. It's the nature of lawyers. Right. And so what was refreshing for me was here's a guy that stands up and couldn't be more Clark Kent, but Superman in the same clothes and very humble, very modest, very soft spoken. And to me, he was one of the most interesting, you know. Yes, it was awesome listening to Nancy Grace tell stories and answer questions. But to me, to me, the Clark Kent Superman of that, of that event was that detective.

[Josh]

Yeah. My daughter actually commented that his stories, because she's seen. So she was really enthralled and thought that he was the best speaker of everybody because he was so authentic and real and just, just you, you never get to hear it like that from someone like him.

[Cheryl McConnell]

It was one of those moments. Like you said, Josh, I mean, lightning might not strike twice, but he got pretty freaking close.

[Franz Borghardt]

Yeah.

[Josh]

Now that was a special, unique. That was an event. It was just, it was really. Everything hit so well.

[Cheryl McConnell]

And Joe Scott Morgan, I mean, he about took the walls down. I've known that man over 30 years. Never heard that story. And y', all, I ain't going to tell it. I'm going to make y' all come to something and make him tell it again. It was that good. I, I told him, I said, how have I never heard this story? And he just grinned. He went, you don't know everything about me. I'm like, well, clearly, let me say,

[Franz Borghardt]

let me say this. The best looking and sounding man in that room may have been him. And I. And, and look again, I have a heightened sense of self worth, as Josh will tell you. But I mean, you. Look, I'm just, if I'm listening to this, if I'm listening to this episode, this, this, this recording, I'm wondering, how can I attend one of these? Where can I attend one of these? And I know you're, I know you're unleashing the gates and this is going to be something that people can go to, but this is really just, it Was fun. It was a lot of fun.

[Cheryl McConnell]

And here's the great thing. To watch somebody like Nancy Grace, because again, when she walks in that room, I mean.

[Josh]

Oh, yeah, no, she's.

[Cheryl McConnell]

You could have robbed the bartender. Nobody would have seen you do a thing. And so she gets to the microphone and she did something I thought that was so genius. She's like, y' all know all my stories. I'm gonna take all your questions. As long as you have questions, y'. All. She must have taken a hundred questions. Oh, yeah, And I'm not kidding.

[Josh]

She stayed. Like, she. She was awesome.

[Cheryl McConnell]

Stayed.

[Josh]

And it was like. It was like, you're on the show, man. It was real Nancy. There was no, you know, gentle hand. No, there was. It was the real Nancy.

[Cheryl McConnell]

It was the real Nancy. And it was the real Nancy on fire because she's great behind a microphone. But when she's got a live audience that she can make laugh or gasp or mad.

[Josh]

Oh, she. She was having a fun time. For someone who's a professional talker, getting that small format, intimate audience, you know, we're talking a. Like a couple hundred people. Like, she. That room was eating everything out of her hands. And just. Folks love it. She's got that personality. Come on. She's. She's who she is for a reason. She walks in and it got popping. Like, people were really, really excited.

[Franz Borghardt]

That's the number one question I get asked the few times I've been blessed to be on her show playing token defense attorney, which is a lot of fun. The number one question, dude, it took me two or three episodes to realize that's what she wanted. And I got my cookie at the end of doing it. But people ask me, what is she really like? And I look at him, I'm like, what you see is what you get. That is. It is not an act.

[Josh]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's the real Nancy. And she brings it and she's unapologetic about it. And she happens, one of her dear friends happens to be a legendary long term lawyer here that I'm also friends with. And so we got to see Renee as well, who is. Man, talk about a memoir I want to read.

[Franz Borghardt]

Yeah.

[Cheryl McConnell]

Lord, do you know how many people have to die before that can happen?

[Josh]

Oh, my God. Renee has. Oh, I. You just. Unless you know her, it's impossible to describe. She may be the most just singular lawyer I've ever practiced in the orbit of. Because she's a universe to herself, like. And the way she walks around, man, ain't nobody does better than Renee. Like, Renee's the kind of lawyer that can correct the judge in the middle of the case. It's. She's just, she's something special.

[Cheryl McConnell]

And like I told y', all, sometime you're gonna need one. Well, one time I needed her. So I'm just telling you, you know, you need those friends, you need all those kind of people.

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[Cheryl McConnell]

I want to end and I just want to hear from both of you. Just you can just sum up what that night was for you and y'.

[Franz Borghardt]

All.

[Cheryl McConnell]

We are headed to North Carolina on February 28th. I'll be posting stuff about it on our social medias. We've got Florida already planned. We've got Pennsylvania planned. We got Ohio planned. So we're coming. We've just got to make sure everything is locked and signed before we put stuff out. But North Carolina set for February 28th and I'll be posting about it. But I want to hear from the two of y', all just kind of here's the reason you would want to come to a 10810 8. The reason we're calling the tour, the 108 tour is 108 is a police code. That means I'm done with my last call. I'm ready for the next call. In other words, I'm open, I'm ready, I'm available. What's next? Give me something. And that to me just kind of set the tone for what this is. When Josh and I talk, we may talk about Lisc one night, then we're going to talk about what happened in this shooting and we're going to have about the missing person over here. We're going to talk about the serial killer over here. Same with Franz. What's next? What's next? What can we do? Who else can we help? So that's the reason we called it the 108 tour. So, Franz, I'll start with you. Just sum it up for me.

[Franz Borghardt]

So for me, what it was, was it was kind of like the acoustical version of all the true crime put together. It's the unplugged, up close and personal, talking to people. And honestly, the first time I ever did anything with Cheryl, Josh, was you were there and we were talking about Karen Reed, and we had diametrically different views on Karen Reed, but it was that kind of conversational piece and where you could reach out and touch the people in the audience and they could do that to you. And then what was really nice was we took breaks and people would come up and start talking to us and we'd answer questions or we'd answer questions on the mic. So to me, it's like if you're looking for that, that, that unplugged, unplugged true crime experience, that is what this event was and is as far as I'm concerned.

[Josh]

Yeah, And I'll echo a lot of that. But I'll add, I'm at this kind of interesting juncture in my life where there's a lot going on. I'm slowing down my actual personal practice to concentrate on some other law adjacent things, including some philanthropy, including some political stuff like becoming an advocate for domestic violence, because I think we need some domestic violence reform. And it was just a particularly poignant night for me to go and be welcomed so much by Cheryl, by the whole Zone 7 community as. As it was kind of an arrival of sorts that was. It's a night I will forever remember. Franz is one of my dear friends. I love the opportunity. We got to spend a few days together. He got to stay at the house, got to hang out with my daughter. The penultimate event was, was hanging out with all these great people, including my daughter, and getting to really revel in, man, Josh, this is a great place for you that you're really happy at. And you can derive enormous personal satisfaction and care and you can care back because these are people that care about the same stuff that you do. And I really like that. And it was a wonderful evening. I look forward to the next ones.

[Cheryl McConnell]

I love you both. I admire you both. And you know, again, folks, both of these men have given me fabulous advice. I mean, Franz has said, hey, when that book comes out, swans don't swim in the sewer. You need to, you know, talk it. You need to do an audio book. That's so sweet. Josh is the first one that told me, don't ever say the following. And I went, ooh, I think that's all over that book. So I had to take some things out. But, you know, good advice. People that cheer for you, y', all. I preach this all the time about Zone 7. If you are hanging out with people that do not have the best for you in mind or working against or talking trash behind your back, get rid of them. There are good people out there. There are. You're listening to two of them right now.

[Franz Borghardt]

Thank you, Cheryl.

[Cheryl McConnell]

And y', all, I'm Gonna end zone 7 the way that I always do, with a quote. True friendship is when two friends walk in opposite directions, but yet are side by side. I'm Cheryl McConnell and this is Zone 7.

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