Steve Fisher (4:25)

When they moved out of the house, they took what they took. They left the rest behind. And we found opiate prescription medications. Now, I can't say that they weren't taking these as prescribed, but there was, you know, several bottles of them in the house. And there's other, you know, paraphernalia that can be used for recreational drugs.

Nancy Grace (4:43)

Okay, stop. Stop right there. Steve. Steve. Okay, you're on Crime Stories. There's no wiggle room. When you say drug paraphernalia, what do you mean? Please be specific.

Steve Fisher (4:57)

There was. There was items that can be used for, like, vaping, you know, not just like, tobacco, but also other, you know, items. There was many of them and. And then also, you know, like, smoking pipes and.

Nancy Grace (5:14)

Don't worry, Steve. I understand you're not saying that's what the drug paraphernalia was used. I simply asked you. Let me rephrase it for you. What you found. I'm not asking you who it belonged to, who used it, or how it was used. So, 1, 2, 3, what did you find? Steve Fisher and D4VD. David Anthony Burke's rented mansion specifically.

Steve Fisher (5:44)

So there was opiate prescription medication. There was a few bottles of that, and then there was paraphernalia. They can use to smoke different types of drugs. You know, it's not for, you know, one type. It's something you find in a smoke shop, you know.

Nancy Grace (6:01)

Okay, opioid. Opiates can mean any number of things. Dr. Kendall crowns joining us. Chief medical examiner, Tarrant County. That's Fort Worth. He is an esteemed lecturer at the Burnett school of Medicine at tcu, and he's the star of a hit podcast, Mayhem in the morgue. Dr. Crowns, please. Simply put, when I'm hearing opiates are found in the home what could that consist of? What is an opiate?

Dr. Kendall Crowns (6:34)

An opiate is a classification of drugs that are like painkillers. It can be heroin, morphine, fentanyl, hydrocodone, oxycodone, and anything in those kind of categories. So opiates is a broad term that you can then take that generalized term and break it down into these other, more specific findings like fentanyl or heroin by doing toxicologic testing.

Nancy Grace (6:59)

Okay, so opiates found in the home. And when Steve Fisher goes out of his way to say that they were prescriptioned, that's good, because we're going to have names on those pill bottles. Steve Fisher, without divulging names, were their names on the pill bottles of opiates?

Steve Fisher (7:18)

They were. And then they were hydrocodone. They were lortab. Generic Lortab. Opiates, painkillers.

Nancy Grace (7:25)

Okay, now. Now for some reason, you've loosened up and you're telling me what you found. Lortab and oxy. Okay, to Dr. Kendall crowns. Isn't it true that typically you can get opiates by prescription or you can just get them on the street?

Dr. Kendall Crowns (7:45)

Yes, you can get them either way. Prescription or purchasing them off the street is a fine way of getting them. Usually, prescription medications are fairly easy to get a hold of, from doctors and pain management doctors, especially to Luke Kenton.

Nancy Grace (8:03)

Joining a senior investigative reporter with Daily Mail. Luke Kenton, thank you for being with us. You see where I'm going with this, right, Luke? If there were multiple pill bottles of opiates, and, you know, from what I've seen, and it hasn't all made it into mainstream media, there were a lot of people in and out, a core group living there, but a lot of people in and out of Burke's home. There were a lot of pill bottles reportedly in Burke's home. Where I'm going with this is if we don't get a COD cause of death, if she's too decomposed to get a good toxicology screen, the argument is going to be Luke Kenton. Oh, she voluntarily, all on her own, just gobbled down a bunch of opiates and she died. That's how she died, everybody. We had nothing to do with it. And then out of fear, we hid her body. That's where this is going, Canton.

Luke Kenton (9:07)

Yeah, I think it speaks to the complicated nature of this investigation as it stands. You know, when this story first broke, you saw young girl found in Singer's car. You thought, okay, slam dunk arrest. But more information that we don't currently have. And Chief among that is a concrete timeline. We don't even know, really when Celeste was last seen alive. We don't know how long she was dead for. And as you say, we don't know how she died, and it's unclear if we're even going to get any clarity on that.

Nancy Grace (9:38)

Do you have any idea, Luke Kenton, who the people were going in and out? It was like Grand Central Station at Burke's mansion. And who were the core people actually living there? Any idea on that? Have they been identified? And that has just not been released?

Luke Kenton (9:57)

They haven't been publicly named. There has been, obviously, as I'm sure you're aware, a lot of online sleuthing going on around this case and trying to piece together the blanks that the LAPD aren't currently filling in for us publicly, some of these individuals. And I can't speak to the people that may or may not have been living at the home, but there was a group that David was often seen with on social media, one close friend in particular that appeared to be involved in his music team in some capacity.

Nancy Grace (10:28)

Okay, so basically what you're telling me, there's a lot of people in and out, and nobody can confirm it. Okay, Luke Kenton, I understand where you're coming from, but Steve Fisher, if a cop got up on the stand and tried to sell me that bill of goods, okay, I would have him held in contempt of court because you have painstakingly gone up and down the street surrounding David Burke's home, and you have amassed video. Ring doorbell cam, security cam, you name it, Cam. And you can see. See who is going in and out of the home. And forget getting it up and down the street, that mansion. Let's see that shot control room that we got from our friend Harvey Levin over at tmz. The mansion is covered in security cams, so we know who goes in and stays overnight on a daily basis. It's not rocket science, Fisher, to figure out who's living there, all you have to do is ping their phone and see is it there night after night after night. I mean, do I have to connect the dots here?

Steve Fisher (11:37)

No, it's like I said, it's not hard to do. In fact, they put it on their own social media. There's constantly, you know, photos in the house. There's a group of four or five of them that are always, always there. And they're kind of David's, you know, groupies or whatever. You know, they work with them, but they're always around. And like I said, there's all there's surveillance. And in fact, I'm have a meeting this afternoon with another homeowner that's back in town and hopefully getting important surveillance from very close to the house that might shed more light on that. And I'll tell you, one of the. One of the people actually left their car there for two months while this was all going on. So these are people that were definitely using the house kind of as a home base, at least.

Nancy Grace (12:22)

You know what, Fisher? Let's just cut it. Let's just cut through it. All I need is one witness, one witness to crack one of Burke's insiders to tell the truth about the night Celeste died. Otherwise, no one is going to be held responsible. That's the way it's heading right now. Things could change. When you say a core group, what does that mean? Are you referring to the two to four people we think live there with Burke?

Steve Fisher (12:56)

Yeah. Or at least were staying there often. They might have had their own residences, too, but they. They had things, belongings there. The nightstands were being used and whatnot. And there was, you know, a couple.

Nancy Grace (13:08)

Hold it, hold it, hold it. Stop everything. I like that. Hold on. You're right. You're right, Fisher. You can have your own. Under the law, we call it domicile. Your own residence. But if you basically shack up or live somewhere else. That's what I'm getting at. Yes. Now I understand Luke Kenton's hesitance, because you don't have to formally live there to be living there. Like that doesn't have to be where you get your mail or what you put on your tax forms, if you file tax forms, but if you're even conveniently living there, that's who I'm talking about. Back to Steve Fisher. Steve, I want to get to the nightstand. I hate to rush you, but I've got X number of minutes to get this information out. Nightstands, all right? Very important. Did you find paraphernalia? Drug paraphernalia, Pill bottles? Any evidence of someone sleeping in the home? In the nightstands? Because you know when you go to a hotel and you're only going to be there one night, does everybody actually unpack their bags and all their stuff and put it in the nightstand? Is there evidence someone has been there more than one night? Why do I care? I care because I want to find out who owned these pill bottles full of oxy. I'm talking oxy, fentanyl, opiates that could kill a little girl. That's who I'm talking about. Steve Fisher. And once I can identify these people that were living there, whether officially or unofficially. Then I have a witness list. See where I'm going, Steve?

Steve Fisher (15:02)

No, I do. Yes, they were. So I gotta get that witness. The nightstands were being used. There's no doubt. And you can tell that, you know, they're, you know, in the master bedroom, there was female products. And the bathroom was completely filled with things where it wasn't just an overnight type of thing. It was like a living situation. And they also had, you know, like gaming stations set up and whatnot in the rooms for different.

Nancy Grace (15:29)

Okay, gaming stations don't mean anything to me because D4VD could be using those gaming stations. He's on online playing games constantly so he could just wander from room to room. I need evidence that other people were living there because I want to try to connect them to these pill bottles if that is in fact the COD on Celeste. Wait a minute. Again, that's not going to convince a jury. Steve Fisher, hate to put you on the hotspot not, but when you say female products, what are you talking about? Are you afraid to say tampon on the air? Over 50% of. Of the population. We're women. We know what they are. Don't be afraid, little boy. What were the female products that. And how much were there to indicate somebody was actually living there? This is important.

Steve Fisher (16:20)

There was feminine hygiene products for sure, but I was. There's also a ton of makeup and makeup bags and hair product that is female based. But there was feminine hygiene products for sure. And there was, I think like six or seven separate, you know, containers of them. So it wasn't just like an overnight type of thing. It was. Yeah, there was.

Nancy Grace (16:44)

Because. Steve, the reason I'm parsing products here is because it could be argued that the 4VD, David Anthony Burke, uses makeup in his videos. So I need something I know he's not going to use like a big box of 40 to 60 tampons. That's what I'm talking about. And I don't care if the owner of these pill bottles was the one woman, a man. I don't care. I just need to get names, which you can get off pill bottles. Okay, I want to talk about the potential cod and what is the holdup? Joining me is Joanna Nieves. She is a veteran criminal defense attorney, founder of the Nieves law firm, and she's joining us out of California. Joanna, thank you for being with us. This is. It's like somewhere up in the atmosphere, the lack of a cod, cause of death just fell in the defense lap, and now they have an avenue, a convincing avenue of defense. I'm not saying it's true. I'm not saying it's false. But when you have a young girl dead in the trunk and dismembered, which is a whole nother issue, that's not accidental. We don't have a cod. We have all these pill bottles lying around. I can see where the defense is headed. What would you do with that, Joanna?

Joanna Nieves (18:15)

I would say the same thing I've been saying the entire time is that we need evidence and an actual crime of murder was committed, and the cause of death is what would help us establish that. Because, you know, what we're dealing with is so many scenarios that could have happened, and I actually have said this for months now or weeks now, that this could have been an accidental overdose. It could have been somebody that found the body or got nervous and panicked about what happened and made the bad judgment call of concealing the body but not necessarily committing a murder. So I think that what we're hearing is that there are still things that are coming to the surface that would actually help the defense defend maybe even a crime that never even occurred.

Nancy Grace (19:02)

Okay, so I'm taking that round about discourse to mean that you, as a defense attorney, if you were handling this case, would argue that obviously Celeste must have died by accident of an overdose. Unless somebody's going to claim she committed suicide, which is highly unlikely, and that someone panicked, and instead of calling 911 or trying to revive her, they went, hey, it'd be a great idea to chop up her body and put her in a trunk. Is that your defense? Just a simple. Yes, I definitely.

Joanna Nieves (19:39)

Yes, I definitely think that that's possible.

Nancy Grace (19:42)

Okay, Dr. Bethany Marshall is joining us. Renowned psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction, author of Deal Breaker. You can see her now on Peacock. Dr. Bethany. This reminds me, in a bad way of top mom Casey Anthony, who actually told a jury, and it worked, by the way, that her little girl Kelly drowned by accident. And Instead of calling 911, everybody thought it was a good idea to wrap her up in a blanket, put her in a trash bag and throw her in. In a swamp. Now, see, I've got a problem with that, but that's generally the same thing that's going to be argued here. I mean, it worked there.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (20:32)

Hey, Nancy, you do not dismember a body because the victim overdosed. You just don't. I mean, that's overkill.

Nancy Grace (20:39)

Overkill.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (20:40)

Something else bad happened in that house, and I've been playing in my mind with what? What could that bad thing have been? Was there a domestic violence incident and somebody was choking her? Is there evidence on the body? Was she gang raped? Is there semen on the body? Was she offered drugs like fentanyl or something like that? Or opiates that were prescribed for somebody else? I do not believe somebody just went and murdered her for murder's sake. You do not dismember a body just because they overdosed you. Call 911.

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Nancy Grace (23:25)

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. I believe her body, Celeste's body, the little girl's body was already in the vehicle when it was parked. He's got video of the Tesla coming around the curve from the direction Of Burke's house, his mansion. Hence the body was already in the car and it's coming around from Burke's house. Stay with me. I'm about to go to Dr. Kendall Crowns, who is a renowned medical examiner, has handled thousands of autopsies, but I want to follow up on who was in that home. Okay, listen to this.

Narrator/Reporter (24:14)

Burke was in town the day the dented and covered in mud Tesla was last moved. July 29th. That same day, Burke left town with his personal assistant Neo after his Tesla was last moved to the spot it would later be be towed from and performing in San Francisco that night, his now canceled withered world tour. Burke had a very small, tight knit entourage. Two to four people close to Burke appeared to be living in the mansion with Burke. Burke's previously close friend group now making efforts to appear less tight knit. Surveillance footage from his $20,000 a month rental home shows three or four individuals who not only share the home, but regularly access his Tesla. Those individuals have not been seen together since the discovery of Celeste's remains. And all have unfollowed each other on social media.

Nancy Grace (25:06)

Dave Mack joining me, crime stories, investigative reporter. So, Dave Mack. Okay, let me understand. If nobody did anything wrong, then why is everyone running in different directions and unfollowing each other on social media? I mean, they the day and I got to go back to Fisher on this in a moment. Dave Mack, remind me to circle back to him. The last day that D4VD David Anthony Burke's Tesla was moved. Remember, you got a dead body, a little girl decomposing in the trunk. It's hotter and hotter and hotter. More and more evidence, including cause of death. COD is being lost literally by the minute. And what are they doing? They're moving the car. Why? Because it's a fancy Beverly Hills home and Hollywood Hills home. And they know that the owners of those lots are going to complain if a nasty car is sitting in front of their lot for days on end. So every few days, the Tesla is being moved around with Celeste dead in the trunk. Point. If nothing wrong happened, then why did everybody living in that home, Dave Mack, suddenly scatter to the four ends of the earth?

Dave Mack (26:28)

You know, Nancy, the biggest thing about this is exactly what you're pointing out. That the last day it was moved, on July 29, the car stays there and is not moved again until it's towed away. But Burke and his friend Bolt, he's in San Francisco performing that very night. He's got his agent or his assistant with him. The guy that's Always with him. They've called him, you know, anyway, they're gone. And then after the body is found, David Burke. BURKE continues on. NANCY now the rats begin to flee, but Burke is acting like nothing happened. Think about it. This is his car, a body's been found, he knows who it is, but he's still doing his thing. He didn't cancel the tour when she was identified. NANCY the tour was canceled for him. He wanted to keep moving on like nothing happened. They're acting like children in every bit of this. And when you think about it, Burke is 20 years old. He was homeschooled, he was sheltered, raised in a church choir. It makes no adult sense, but maybe it makes sense to somebody who's got the maturity level of a 12 year old.

Nancy Grace (27:40)

To Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us, psychoanalyst and author Dr. Bethany Everyone scatters to the four corners of the earth, but then it's followed up by unfollowing each other online. I find that a step too far not to have some sort of implication. That's right.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (28:03)

I mean they are definitely trying to distance themselves from each other. And you know, in that world, you know instantly when unfollows you, you know, and it's so easy to track. I would wonder with this group, who knows, what about the other person? Did one person see another member of the house supply drugs? Did one person see another person abuse Celeste and not call 911? All that drug paraphernalia? NANCY I'm very interested in that. Were the opiates in the room of the patient for which the opiates have been prescribed or were they scattered around the house? Was house neat or messy? Did it look like a frat house, a crack house, or was it a kept neat? Was all the drug paraphernalia in one place, like people were just doing it recreationally or was it scattered like a mess?

Nancy Grace (28:54)

Steve Fisher, where were the drugs? And let me also point out. STEVE FISHER well, we learned this from you. LAPD had already searched the home. Now they haven't mentioned finding drug to drug paraphernalia. That does not mean they didn't find it. But by the time you searched it, where did you find the drugs?

Steve Fisher (29:16)

So there was several different bottles of them and one, you know, being in the like a living room table that was kind of like a where they did all the streaming from is accessible there and then also in the bathrooms. So I think there was three different opiate prescription bottles and so they were, they were accessible, they weren't locked up or anything like that. They were accessible to anybody in the house.

Nancy Grace (29:43)

Okay. You know, and you're speaking legally right now in response to Dr. Bethany Marshall, and you're right, Steve. The fact that they were in various locations, those doors were not locked, anyone would have had access to them. But, you know, isn't it true, Joanna Nieves, veteran defense attorney, that under the law, and this is a jury charge, a jury instruction that was will be read to a jury in this case, if there ever is one, says that the jury can take into account behavior before, during and after the incident, which means a jury could take into account that very oddly, very uncharacteristically, all of D4BD David Anthony Burke's friends that normally live together, that hang out together every single day and night, that part their cars there for months on end, they all scattered to north, south, east and west and unfollowed each other. That can be taken in to account. And it can be argued on closing that that is a guilty conscience. You know, something bad went down, you know about it, so you get the hell out of Dodge. Can't that be argued by a prosecution?

Joanna Nieves (30:56)

Yes, this could be a indicator of consciousness, of guilt. But what we have to keep in mind is that something bad did happen. There was a dismember body in a trunk. So they are likely trying to distance themselves from the fact that someone tried to conceal a body. And there was a knowingness around that. But the point still remains that we can't prove yet whether this was the. The cause of death was actually a murder and then the concealment of the body.

Nancy Grace (31:21)

Do I care about the Tesla? No. Do I care who put the Tesla there or moved it? Yes, because I believe that person had knowledge that Celeste body, a little girl was decomposing in the trunk, has a massive gift bin dropped in the lapse of the defense. That gift there is no COD cause of death as of tonight. Now with all of this in mind, straight out to Dr. Kendall Crowns. Joining us, as I've mentioned, Chief medical examiner Tarrant county and star of mayhem in the morgue, Dr. Kendall crowns. I've waited on a lot of toxicology reports as have you to get an official cause of death. Toxicology reports are needed in a case where you can't look at the body either under the microscope like you or with a naked eye like me and say, oh yeah, she was stabbed dead. Oh yeah, she was bludgeoned dead. Oh yeah, this is a GSW gunshot wound. You have to have toxicology when you can't overtly see what the COD Is right, but in all of my history, I don't recall it taking this long. Is this the death knell? Does this mean toxicology is not revealing a cause of death?

Dr. Kendall Crowns (32:46)

Well, it can be the fact that it. It can take up to eight to 10 weeks to get good toxicology testing done, especially a severe decomp. She was in that trunk for several weeks. Her decomposition processes could have caused her blood to dry up and other tissues to not be available. And they may be relying on liver and muscle to get their toxicologic testing done. And when they have to rely on these two solid organs, the toxicology lab has to grind them up and homogenize them, making them into a liquid so they can test them. And this can add even more to the.

Nancy Grace (33:20)

Okay, just stop right there. Stop right there. Stop. Dr. Kendall. Crowns. Look, we all. Everybody on this panel accepts that you're smarter than us. Can you please dumb me down? I don't know what you just said. What? Grind it down for a what test. What?

Dr. Kendall Crowns (33:38)

So when you have no blood left to test from and all you have left is solid organs, you can collect muscle and liver. At the time of autopsy, that is sent to the toxicology lab, and they put it in basically a blender, and they make it into, like, a slurry or a smoothie of this tissue. And then that way they're able to extract the liquid to put it into the machines to do the toxicology testing, because the toxicology machines that do the testing can't use solid organs. So it has to be liquefied in some way. And by doing that, it takes the process.

Nancy Grace (34:14)

Okay, you know what? I just want to digest what you just said, because all of the prosecution's investigations I've had, which I can't count, I've never heard it put just quite like that. You're saying that Celeste's liver, her dried up liver, is put in a blender and blended until it's liquefied so that some machine somewhere can run a test on it?

Dr. Kendall Crowns (34:49)

Correct.

Nancy Grace (34:50)

Okay, moving forward, After Celeste's liver is liquefied in a blender, then that is put into a what?

Dr. Kendall Crowns (35:03)

It depends on the toxicology lab, but they usually use like, a GC mass spectrometry, which is gas chromatography mass spectrometry machine that then can do. Look at drug levels within that slurry of tissue.

Nancy Grace (35:21)

So you use a mass spectromet. A mass spectrometer spectrometer to look at. Oh, here's another one. If you put a dried organ into the blender as you call it, and you blend it, you still have a dry organ. How does it become liquefied?

Dr. Kendall Crowns (35:40)

They add certain fluids to it to make it more liquefied. I don't know specifically what they add, but it's probably normal saline. Probably most likely normal saline. So it helps liquefy it and doesn't add to the toxicology or decrease the toxicology. Of course, there are charts that are available.

Nancy Grace (35:59)

So then the newly formed liquid, which is dried liver and saline, is put into a mass spec, and then you can determine from that, in lieu of blood, whether there were drugs in Celeste's system. Do I have that right?

Dr. Kendall Crowns (36:18)

Yes, you do.

Nancy Grace (36:20)

Okay. You have illuminated a lot, Dr. Kendall. Crowns. So you're telling me that no matter how long the body is there, if you can get a liver or some other organ, suitable organ, you can use that to get a tox. A tox screen. Toxicology, right?

Dr. Kendall Crowns (36:44)

That's correct.

Nancy Grace (36:47)

Okay. And at the beginning, at the outset, you said. Did you say eight or 11 weeks to get that tox screen back?

Dr. Kendall Crowns (36:54)

About eight to 10, but yes, about two days, two and a half months.

Nancy Grace (37:01)

We know that she was in the trunk on September 8, likely dead before then. But the point of September 8 is that's when her body was found. So you've got September to October, October to November. So right now we're at about eight weeks. So you're saying either now or in the next two weeks, there should be a top psychology report.

Dr. Kendall Crowns (37:24)

Yes.

Nancy Grace (37:27)

Okay. Dr. Kendall. Crowns. You heard Dr. Bethany Marshall talking about how, what if there were sex games, what if there was a strangulation game, an asphyxiation game going on? All that evidence on her body, just theoretically, if it existed, is gone. Because her body has been decomposing for so long in the trunk, would you expect to find bruising? Would you be able to find it? Let's just pretend. Let's just pretend she died on September 7th and she's.

Dr. Kendall Crowns (38:06)

So, yes, even though the body's decomposed, you can still find physical evidence like bruising, stab wounds, gunshot wounds, things of that nature. Even if they've completely mummified and their skin's hard as a rock, or dried hard, you can still notice the wounding patterns and still find bruising. And then cut into that dried, leathery skin, peel it back and find hemorrhage in the subcutaneous tissue or the fat underneath. And the other thing you can look for is fractures of the bones. So even if all the tissue is decomposed away, you can still look at the bones and find fractures.

Nancy Grace (38:40)

Okay. I don't know if I've told you tonight yet, Dr. KendallKrauns, but you're brilliant. But I've got another fact to plug into your equation, Steve Fisher. I just pretended Celeste was dead or killed September 7th. But you have information based on you combing the neighborhood to get video and more. You have information that she was in the trunk a lot longer than the day before the car was found.

Steve Fisher (39:14)

Yeah. So we have video evidence of the car being moved on July 29th. And even if we didn't have that, we still have the parking enforcement officers that took photos, you know, going back two weeks before the car was towed. So she was in that for quite a while. But before, definitely on or before July 29th.

Nancy Grace (39:37)

Well, I'm telling you, I believe that that's her in that photo that we have found at a D4VD concert August 4th. Straight back out to Luke Kenton. Joining us, Senior investigative reporter, DailyMail.com who's been on the story from the beginning. I know you're familiar with the Aug. 4 photo with either Celeste or a Celeste lookalike wearing her jeans and her black tube top up in the balcony that is reserved for friends and family. Abdi4vd, aka David Anthony Burke. That was August 4th, was it not? Luke Kenton.

Luke Kenton (40:12)

It was August 4th. Yes. The investigation that was done around that video, it was claimed at least that that wasn't Celeste depicted. We know David hung out with a number of other individuals who bear some slight resemblance to Celeste. But on the subject of last known contact, a couple of sources close to Celeste who went to school with Celeste said that even though she was missing for a year or so, she continued contact with friends. And that contact cut in either late June or early July. It's my understanding that form of contact was message based, so there's no way of verifying who was sending those messages. But her phone was at least active until that point, according to two spots.

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Nancy Grace (43:11)

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. So, Luke Hinton, that's really interesting. And not just interesting. It could be probative. You're saying that her friends, her old friends before David Anthony Burke quit hearing from her at the latest in. Did you say mid July?

Luke Kenton (43:33)

It was late June to very early July, which is what I was told.

Annabe Sofa Advertiser (43:40)

Mm.

Dr. Kendall Crowns (43:41)

Mm.

Nancy Grace (43:42)

Now, regarding that video, the video that was turned into an ISO isolated photo of who many believe to be Celeste in that special friends and family booth above D4VD David Anthony Burke. You said some people are saying that's not Celeste. Who is saying that's not Celeste?

Luke Kenton (44:07)

That was actually reported, I believe, by tmz. And the information that came from that report was that it was individuals as close to individual individuals with knowledge of the matter said it wasn't Celeste. I haven't been able to verify personally one way or the other, but I agree with she certainly, yeah, she certainly resembles Celeste. But again, there are a few people in and around that circle that do Hispanic heritage and do slightly resemble Celeste in some way.

Nancy Grace (44:41)

Luke Kenton. You're saying that people close to D4VD David Anthony Burke. He calls that David. People close to Burke say, oh, no, that's not her. Is that correct?

Luke Kenton (44:53)

That's my understanding of somebody else's reporting where my reporting is concerned. Yeah.

Nancy Grace (45:00)

So whenever I put a witness on the stand, I weigh. I judge their credibility, their veracity. I consider the source. So if my source on that is. And I agree with you, Luke, that seems to have come from within D4BD's camp. They're going, oh, no, that's not her. All right, that and a dollar will buy me a cup of coffee at McDonald's. I'm not buying what somebody in that camp says. No, but we know that, for instance, the FBI, for Pete's sake, Target even has the greatest surveillance video. That video, that photo can be used and enhanced to determine, is it really Celeste. Why do I care this much? Because if it is Celeste, that puts her alive on August 4th. So that weighs into it. What does it weigh into? It weighs into What? I'm asking Dr. Kendall Crown. That was a big roundabout. You have a lot of those in Great Britain. A big roundabout. Back to Dr. Kendall Crowns. If I can place her alive at. As Luke was saying at the beginning of July, if she was dead then, and that's not Celeste in the balcony, can I get a COD on her body? You said even a mummy can reveal bruises once you. You cut into the bruise and look at the subcutaneous tissue. That's a big word for under the skin. Even on a mummy, you can find that.

Dr. Kendall Crowns (46:32)

Yes. I mean, you can still look at the tissues or the skin surface, even if they're dried and mummified, and still find injuries. Gunshot wounds, stab wounds, bruises, all still are there. You just have to kind of change your thinking on what you're looking at because of the decomposition process. If she was still alive in July, that would be August and early September. She'd only been missing for about a month or dead about a month. She probably wouldn't even be mummified at that point. She would just probably be bloated green and with skin slippage and stuff oozing out of every orifice. But we could still. That would even be easier than a mummified body to find the injuries. The problem is actually the dismembering could disrupt a lot of the injuries you would be looking for, especially with the strangulation. If they've cut her head off and disrupted all the neck musculature.

Nancy Grace (47:22)

Amidst all of the scientific jargon we're hearing at the medical examiners and the analyses by brilliant psychoanalysts like Dr. Bethany Marshall. The news from Luke Kenton, Steve Fisher on this from the very beginning, and it seemingly doesn't matter to A lot of people. What Fisher has absolutely, absolutely dug up, that's non refeatable so far. Conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theories abounding online as to what really happened. Listen, the David and Celeste thing is the most obvious Hollywood satanic ritual I've ever seen. That actually hurt my ear. My ears are bleeding. And that is from at Supreme Tings on Tick Tock. There's more. Listen, listen, I'm gonna be honest.

Steve Fisher (48:14)

Gotta be honest, y', all, bro.

Dave Mack (48:15)

The David situation is all the PR stuff, okay?

Nancy Grace (48:18)

You guys are all falling for it. Do you not notice all of us literally singing in the back of my mind like, bro, It's a literal PR stunt. He hit number one on iTunes. Okay, he lost me with the Cruella hair right there. I'm out. No, I'm not putting him on the stand with another crazy theory. And that is from. From Light L I G H T Sun Zane on Tick Tock. These conspiracy theories are as old as time. Are they real? No. But if you remember the Scott Peterson case, the zany conspiracy theories were actually used at trial. Yeah, here's a great one. An O.J. simpson crazy zany conspiracy theory. So I without a shadow of a doubt believe that OJ did not kill Nicole or Ron, but it was his son Jason, and here's why. So evidence wise, there's about 15 fingerprints they could not trace back to O.J. there was also a cap there that had dog hair on it. But OJ didn't own a dog. But Jason did. And pictures have been proven to know that that cap is Jason's. They just failed to get any kind of DNA evidence off of Jason. He's also had a prior aggravated assault with a deadly weapon against one of his ex girlfriends. Woman Simpson. The O.J. simpson. Orenthal James Simpson committed double murder. Quit trying to rope in his son who's out minding his own business the night of the murders. That is from Zoe Underscore germx. Okay, let's see. Crazy conspiracy theories that defense will absolutely use. How about Bryan Kohberger? Kohberger is innocent. I told you Kohberger was innocent. So I called my source, one of five, and I asked if I had to prove him innocent, where would I look? And the source said, look at enan touch DNA doordasher. And the neighbor, Enid was never put on the suspect list when he had blood on his door. And he authored those other handles. It's also a known drug house. So only a sophisticated drug ring.

Annabe Sofa Advertiser (50:32)

Would.

Nancy Grace (50:33)

Do slice and dice like that. So much of that is not True what? Known drug house. What is she saying? That's from berries and branches on TikTok. Zany conspiracy theories that you would think don't amount to a hill of beans, but that can be used by an adrenaline. Detroit defense attorney, as a matter of fact. Dave Mack, crime stories investigative reporter who investigated the Delphi double murders with me. Wasn't there a zany conspiracy theory that the Odinists killed Libby and Abby, the two little girls found under that trestle bridge? Odinists that worship Thor and the other Norse gods. The defense actually tried to bring that into evidence, and the judge stopped them. Remember that?

Dave Mack (51:16)

They fought hard to get that odinism brought into this, to claim it was a ritualistic killing of Abby and Libby. I mean, it was amazing that we actually had to dig into this and go through just papers and encyclopedias of this Odinism. And, you know, it was just another red herring. But, yeah, they tried, and the judge listened.

Nancy Grace (51:39)

Complete red herring. And they actually tried to use the Zani conspiracy theory. And at trial, I mean, there's millions of them. Remember when jonbene Ramsey was found dead? So many people piled on that it was the brother, Burke who was like, this big around day one. I said, it's not Burke. But did that stop the conspiracy theories? And that poor boy was hounded the rest of his life. Now he's a young adult male. But can you imagine the cost, the price? These conspiracy theories, as crazy as they are, carry on, Lady Justice. She has to pay the bill for all of that. We are waiting on that cod, and we are waiting for justice in the death of a little girl. Celeste Rivas. If you know or think you know anything about her Death, please contact LAPD. 213-486-6890. Repeat, 213-486-6890. As of tonight, no one has been named a suspect or even a person of interest in her death. We remember an American hero Officer Rosa Vasquez, U.S. department, Homeland Security, killed in the line of of duty after 17 years service, leaving behind her husband, David, and two children without a mom, Paulina and Jesus. American hero officer Rosa Vasquez. Nancy Grace, signing off. Goodbye, friend.

Luke Kenton (53:27)

Foreign.

Nancy Grace (53:44)

This is an I Heart podcast.