DEATH BY MERCEDES: $$$ Socialite Mows Down Brothers, Denied Venue Change in Civil Trial, Accused of Hiding Assets

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: "DEATH BY MERCEDES: $$$ Socialite Mows Down Brothers, Denied Venue Change in Civil Trial, Accused of Hiding Assets"
Date: December 14, 2025
Host: Nancy Grace
Panelists/Guests: Ray Caputo, Kathleen Murphy, Dr. Angela Arnold, Cheryl McCollum, Mark Klaas, Joseph Scott Morgan

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Episode Overview

This episode covers the tragic and high-profile case of Rebecca Grossman, a wealthy California socialite who fatally struck two young brothers, Mark and Jacob Iskander, while driving her Mercedes at high speed after drinking. Grossman’s subsequent conviction for second-degree murder, her attempts to move her civil trial out of Los Angeles County, and allegations of attempting to hide assets are thoroughly examined. Nancy Grace and her expert panel dissect the facts of the case, its impact on the community, and the broader legal and moral implications.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Incident: The Deadly Crash in Westlake Village

• Timeline of Events

  • On a warm September evening, the Iskander family—six in total, including Mark (11) and Jacob (8)—were returning home from a stroll in Westlake Village, CA. ([04:22])
  • In a marked crosswalk at a three-way intersection, the family is struck by Rebecca Grossman’s speeding Mercedes, allegedly after a boozy lunch and while street racing with her lover.
  • Mother managed to pull one child and a stroller to safety. Mark and Jacob were hit; Mark died at the scene and Jacob later at the hospital. ([05:52])

• Scene Details

  • Mark was thrown 254 feet by the impact, underscoring the car’s excessive speed. ([04:22])
  • Witnesses and police describe how one boy was carried on the hood for 100 feet before Grossman slammed the brakes, dislodging him, and then ran over him as she tried to flee. ([10:01])
  • Grossman did not stop to render aid; she was found about a mile away after her car failed. ([23:11])

• Notable Quote

  • "She reportedly slammed on her brakes so he'd roll off and then she ran him over." – News anchor (19:10)

2. Community and Panel Reactions

• Panelists express outrage and heartbreak:

  • Nancy Grace laments, "How can you miss a group of six people—including a stroller—in a marked crosswalk before dark?" ([10:31])
  • Cheryl McCollum emphasizes, "She made the conscious choice to do more damage to that baby than to stop and render aid." ([20:21])
  • Kathleen Murphy: "This is nothing new behavior. She chose to drink, she chose to drive, she chose to cover it up." ([45:10])

• Psychiatric Perspective

  • Dr. Angela Arnold addresses the lack of empathy: "It’s such a horrific act that most of us cannot understand. To me, it speaks to something deeper that is wrong with this woman on top of her alcohol addiction." ([21:53])

3. Grossman's Defense and Legal Maneuvering

• Civil Trial Venue Change Denied
  • Grossman’s attorneys claim pretrial publicity prevents a fair trial in LA County, citing high name recognition from media coverage.
  • Nancy counters: "That does not mean they cannot be impartial. ... Look at Sean Combs' trial—everyone knew who he was—but a fair trial proceeded." ([15:14])
  • Judge Huey Cotton refuses the venue change, expressing confidence in the ability to seat an impartial LA jury. ([45:59])
  • Notable: Grossman's legal team also cited family death threats to support the move, but the judge and panel dismiss this as insufficient.

4. Evidence, Investigation Hurdles, and Asset Hiding

• Driving Under Influence (DUI)

  • Grossman tested above the legal BAC limit. Panelists stress the necessity for timely BAC testing and lament possible defenses if too much time passes before testing. ([31:11])
  • Previous DUI/adverse driving history cited, including a 2000 crash where she ran a red light. ([43:25])

• Community Status and Asset Shields

  • Grossman and her husband are prominent due to the Grossman Burn Foundation, but panelists highlight hypocrisy in their benevolent image.
  • Allegations arise that Grossman, with husband’s help, may be trying to shield assets before the civil trial—house deeds transferred to a trust, mansion listed for $13.5 million. ([49:05])
  • Judge allows plaintiff attorneys to depose Grossman’s husband and daughter, overruling claims of undue trauma or repetitive questioning. ([48:00])

• Notable Investigative Steps

  • Kathleen Murphy: "Investigators have to retrace her steps—what she drank, when, every speeding ticket, DUI, social gatherings—to establish a pattern and prove history." ([39:45])

5. Systemic Issues and Moral Judgments

• Privilege and Social Status

  • Discussion of wealthy defendants leveraging influence to evade consequences—a recurring theme.
  • Nancy Grace and others denounce the persistence of calling Grossman a "socialite." Dr. Arnold: "We should be calling her a sociopath today because that is what this woman is." ([44:25])

• Victim Impact

  • Several panelists focus on the enduring trauma for the Iskander family, notably as they witnessed their sons' deaths.
  • Nancy: "I'm really more worried about the two dead boys than anybody's reputation." ([43:56])

• Hit-and-Run and Absence of Remorse

  • Grossman's lack of stopping to render aid is repeatedly condemned as inhumane.
  • Mark Klaas: "No conscience. No morals. This is a woman who most certainly does not belong behind the driver's seat of a car." ([28:49])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Nancy Grace (on venue demand):

  • "Good luck with that, Grossman. ... You'd have to be living under a rock in a cave on the other side of the world with earmuffs on not to know who Rebecca Grossman is." ([15:14])

• Cheryl McCollum (on fleeing the scene):

  • "She did nothing to help this family. She did nothing to help the two little boys. ... She didn't even go to a pay phone and call 911 anonymously to get help." ([23:55])

• Joseph Scott Morgan (on car damage):

  • "It looks like she ran into a damn telephone pole. ... She was traveling at such a high rate that it literally collapsed the front of that car." ([32:23])

• Dr. Angela Arnold (on diagnosis):

  • "Instead of a socialite, we should be calling her a sociopath today because that is what this woman is." ([44:25])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Crash details recounted: [04:22] – [10:31]
• Witness accounts and lack of driver response: [19:10], [20:21]
• Legal arguments about trial venue: [15:14], [45:59]
• Grossman’s blood alcohol analysis and prior conduct: [31:11], [43:25]
• Community status and philanthropic PR vs. reality: [26:27]
• Asset hiding and civil litigation updates: [48:00] – [49:05]
• Emotional toll on the Iskander family: [24:11], [43:56]

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Episode Structure

1. Recap of the deadly crash, decisions leading up to it, and the immediate aftermath
2. Panel analysis—criminal vs. civil liability, legal strategizing, evidence
3. Broader commentary: Power, privilege, and justice
4. Community and victim focus
5. Latest legal developments: Denial of venue change, asset hiding allegations
6. Closing: Support for the victims' family and the ongoing quest for justice

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Summary prepared for listeners seeking a clear, comprehensive, and emotionally resonant breakdown of the Rebecca Grossman case as covered by Nancy Grace and expert panelists.

Transcript

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[Nancy Grace]

That'S odoo.com crime stories with Nancy Grace an evil millionaire socialite who slaughters two little boys while racing her Mercedes in a residential area after a boozy lunch, now makes an incredibly entitled demand from behind all bars. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. The socialite, I'll never forget her name, Rebecca Grossman, who is convicted of murdering two little boys, two brothers with her Mercedes while racing her Mercedes with her lover after a drunken and booze soaked lunch, demands her civil trial be moved because of quote sensationalized coverage of the crimes. She insists she should not be tried in LA county after the parents of Jacob, 8 and Mark, 11 brothers, sued her for damages after the boys were run down in Westlake Village there in la. Now, according to court documents we've obtained, she says, Grossman says this court is requested to issue an order changing the place of trial because an impart trial cannot be had in LA county and nearby vicinities. She's serving 15 to life for two counts of second degree murder and she is claiming other people are biased. Okay, what do we know about the case? So many questions. Let's start it off. Listen. Just after 7pm on a September evening, Jacob and Mark Iskender, their siblings and parents go for an evening stroll to a nearby lake. The boys enjoy rollerblading and skateboarding. The six member family is heading home, crossing in a crosswalk at a three way intersection when mother Nancy heard a speeding car barreling their way. The mom says her husband and daughter were further away from the street. She tries to signal to the two SUVs heading their way to slow down. She tried to pull the children back, only managing to grab one of them, a five year old, and dive out of the way. Jacob and Mark, who were farther out.

[Commercial Announcer]

In the crosswalk, are hit.

[Nancy Grace]

Mark Iskender dies at the scene. Jacob dies later at the hospital. According to police, mark was thrown 254ft. 254ft. Can you imagine that coming up on the scene and seeing a little helmet, a child's scooter and crime scene tape. With me, an all star panel to break it down and put it back together again. First of all, founder of Class Kids Foundation, Mark Class. You can find [e-mail] and that's with a K. Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina trial law. You can find her at ncdomesticlaw.com renowned psychiatrist joining us out of Atlanta, Dr. Angela Arnold at AngelaArnoldMD.com founder, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, former president of Mad Georgia Mothers Against Drunk Driving, Cheryl McCollum, professor, forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of a new series on the TRUT crime network, Poisonous Liaisons, Joseph Scott Morgan. But first to the lead news anchor, WDBO Ray caputo. Ray caputo, two brothers dead and one fell swoop, one just nine years old, the other just 11. What happened?

[Ray Caputo]

Well, Nancy, this was a really hot day. This happened in Westlake Village, California. It's about an hour west LA depending on the traffic. And it's a Hot day. And the family goes out. Jacob and Mark, they're 8, 11. They're with their mom and their dad and two other siblings and they're simply crossing the street.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, hold on, just let me understand something. It's okay. They're with their whole family. It's not like the children were in the middle of the road riding their scooters. They're in a crosswalk with their family, correct?

[Ray Caputo]

Yes, a well marked crosswalk.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, I'm, I want to understand where this is. Mark Class, Founder of Class Kids Foundation. Where is Westlake Village? Where is that in California?

[Ray Caputo]

Well, it's several hundred miles from where I am, but I've been through Westlake and it's a suburb of Los Angeles.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, when you say a suburb of la, having lived out in LA during Dancing with the Stars, that could mean anything. I mean, it could be a beach area, it could be a R, it could be farming land because California is so diverse. But a good hour outside of LA in my mind means suburbs. People that will drive an hour to get to work in LA through that God awful traffic. So we're talking about a suburb of la, which is full of beautiful country called Westlake Village. We're talking about Mark and Jacob. They're 9 and 11 years old and they're with their entire family, including mommy and daddy. So back to you, Ray Caputo. I think I heard you say they were in a crosswalk, correct?

[Ray Caputo]

Yeah, it was a crosswalk. Now this is a suburb, so it wasn't a heavily congested area. You know, when you think of law, downtown Los Angeles, it's a concrete jungle. It wasn't like this. There was a lot of hills though, and it was residential and they weren't across what they were doing. What a lot of families do on a Tuesday night when it's hot out and you want to get a little.

[Nancy Grace]

Exercise, you know, I take Lucy and John David, we get the dog, fat boy, and we walk all the time, practically every day, rain or shine. And it's usually about that time when they're done with school and I'm through with work and everything is calming down from all the craziness during the day. And I'm just imagining this family, you know. Ray Caputo, you said the whole family was there. How many of them were there?

[Ray Caputo]

Well, there was at least two siblings and I know that one of them was in a stroller. So there was the mom and the dad. And you can imagine that, that, you know, the child in the stroller is getting the most attention they're getting pushed around. But, you know, everybody was there. Mom and dad were with the kids, and it was just there. They killed about six of them, including the boys.

[Nancy Grace]

The whole family together. You know, when I go with the whole family together somewhere, I feel more safe because we're all there together. I've got the children with me. My husband's there. We're all focused on keeping the twins safe at all times. Take a listen to Chris Holmstrom at KCAL9. It was just before dark.

[Ray Caputo]

A family of six was walking across.

[Nancy Grace]

This crosswalk when tragedy struck. Captain Salvador Becerra with the LA County Sheriff's Department describes what happened next. The family were in a market cross crosswalk clearly marked.

[Kathleen Murphy]

As she realized there were two cars speeding her way, she was able to reach out and grab one of her.

[Nancy Grace]

Children off of a razor scooter, pull her. Pull the child back with the stroller. With another child in a stroller as.

[Ray Caputo]

The car entered the intersection and hit.

[Nancy Grace]

The other two boys. There's six people, including two adults and a stroller. How could you not see that? It wasn't even dark yet. To Ray caputo, did the two boys, 9 and 11, die right there on the scene where they raced to the hospital? What happened?

[Ray Caputo]

Oh, it's just terrible, Nancy. Well, one of the boys died at the scene. He was carried on the hood of the car for about 100ft and then the car stopped and the little boy flew off. And then he was. He was ran over the other child.

[Nancy Grace]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Slow down. What did you just say?

[Ray Caputo]

Unfortunately, the woman hit the little. One little boy and carried him 100ft. And then he flew off the car and she ran him over.

[Nancy Grace]

Wait, wait, wait. Right there. So it's not dark yet. They're in a crosswalk. There are six people, including two adults and a stroller. That accounts for three people. So there were three others. That is a group. How can you miss a group of people? Just let's just pretend that the driver come over a hill and hit them, which I don't believe is the case because under the rules of the road, just like where you put a double line, you're not supposed to cross on a double line or pass anybody. You wouldn't put a crosswalk right there as coming up over a hill because it's too dangerous. So as if you couldn't see them a mile away. We learn from witnesses that one of these two little boys was carried on the hood of the car for 100ft.

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[Ray Caputo]

Sh.

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[Ray Caputo]

Well, there was a crosswalk. You gotta imagine at a T. And there's a road that's coming down a hilly, very hilly road coming down into there. And then there's a crosswalk. So my assumption is, is. Is that. Yeah, that might have played into it. It says that she was on this road. And I believe that she may have taken a turn where there was a stop sign that just kept ripping through it because she was going really fast.

[Kathleen Murphy]

And I've seen this on a map.

[Ray Caputo]

And I can understand how someone who's intoxicated just out of their mind not paying attention to the road.

[Nancy Grace]

If you're coming down a road like you're saying there's a hill coming down, you can see down. It's not as if she was coming up a hill and then suddenly you're in a crosswalk and there are people in the middle of it. Sheryl McCollum, you're the former president of Mothers Against Junk Driving. Georgia, help me out here.

[Cheryl McCollum]

Nancy.

[Kathleen Murphy]

There were so many things this woman did wrong before that accident.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm just talking right now about the crosswalk. Crosswalks are there in that spot for a reason. So you can see it. Correct.

[Kathleen Murphy]

But not somebody that's drunk. It could very well be she was fiddling with the radio. It could be that she was going through her purse.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay. Speaking of that, take a listen to anchor Suzanne Marquez with Tina Patel, CBS la. We have more breaking news. A driver has been arrested after a crash last night in Westlake Village that killed two children. CBS 2's Tina Patel is live with the latest on this investigation. It's heartbreaking developments this morning.

[Commercial Announcer]

Tina, it really is.

[Nancy Grace]

One boy died here at the scene. The other one was taken to the hospital and we just learned that he also passed away. Now, the sheriff's department is not releasing the ages of those boys or saying whether they are related. But you can see the news of the tragic death has hit this community. Many are coming now to leave flowers. Oh, yeah. They weren't releasing a lot of information and now we know why. Take a listen to Mary Beth McDade, KTLA 5. Grossman, who's married to a prominent plastic.

[Commercial Announcer]

Surgeon, Peter Grossman reportedly hit one boy.

[Nancy Grace]

Who rolled up onto her hood. She reportedly slammed on her Briggs so.

[Commercial Announcer]

He'D roll off and then she ran him over. Deputies reportedly caught up with Grossman about.

[Kathleen Murphy]

A quarter mile away in her white.

[Commercial Announcer]

Mercedes which had front end damage and arrested her.

[Ray Caputo]

Rebecca Grossman was arrested for vehicular.

[Nancy Grace]

She's been charged two counts of vehicular.

[Ray Caputo]

Manslaughter and is arrested for dui.

[Commercial Announcer]

The Iskanders are well known in their Westlake Village and church communities.

[Nancy Grace]

So Rebecca Grossman was driving that white Mercedes, married to a prominent plastic surgeon, Peter GROSSMAN. Now, Cheryl McCollum, former director of Mad MADD Mothers Against Drunk Driving. Georgia, did you hear that? That reportedly hit one boy and he flew up onto her hood. She kept going about 100ft and slammed on brakes so the boy would roll off, then ran over him and did not stop. She kept going. Did you get that in the news report from KTLA 5.

[Kathleen Murphy]

Think about that, Nancy.

[Nancy Grace]

The cops didn't find her for a quarter of a mile.

[Kathleen Murphy]

But Nancy, think of how the fact that she's already hurt him severely by running over him and killing his brother. She makes the choice of getting that child off the hood of her car and ran over him in order to flee and get away. She made the conscious choice to do more damage to that baby than to stop and render aid.

[Nancy Grace]

Joining me right now, I want to go straight out to Dr. Angela Arnold, psychiatrist at Angela ArnoldMD.com. what in the world would make you keep going after you hit a child? It reminds me of a case I covered on Court TV a while back. And the defendant's name was Shantae Mallard. She hit a man in the street, then with him on the hood, stuck on the hood, she drives all the way to her home, pulls her car into the garage, closes the garage and leaves him on the windshield to die. He could have been saved in the time she sat there going, wow, am I going to get in trouble for this? She left the guy impaled on the hood while he died. Here you've got this woman, according to eyewitnesses, carried the little boy on the hood of the car 100ft, slammed on brakes, the boy fell off, then she ran over him.

[Kathleen Murphy]

So it's, it's such a horrific act, Nancy, that, that most of us cannot understand. But to me, it speaks to something deeper that is.

[Ray Caputo]

That is wrong with this woman on.

[Kathleen Murphy]

Top of her alcohol addiction, apparently.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, let's talk about that for a moment. I want to find out from you, Ray Caputo, wdbo, why alcohol is being thrown around. How come we don't think she was just, let's just say street racing or joyriding or in a hurry. How did alcohol get into the mix?

[Ray Caputo]

Well, that's what the deputy said. What? They found her about a mile down the road. Nancy, this is the scary part. We see this a lot with people who have money. They. They know what happens when. When things go sideways. If you hit somebody and you're drinking, the best thing to do is get the heck away from the scene, apparently, and not be seen until you sober up. This woman's car breaks down a mile away, and that's when she's busted. If she would have got away, I would almost guarantee that they'd be mounting a defense of, I wasn't drinking. Now, also, you mentioned street racing. She was apparently street racing, too. She was traveling at a high rate of speed and she was drinking I mean, what a host of factors. And you wonder why something went wrong here.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, I'll tell you how I learned that DUI driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs was part of this. Because she is renowned, prominent member of the community. Husband is a high profile plastic surgeon. She was arrested on suspicion of manslaughter and DUI after smashing her speeding Mercedes into brothers mark and Jacob, 11 and 9, Westlake Village. She only stopped a mile and a half away when her engine cut out. Cheryl McCollum, former director of Mad Mothers Against Drunk Driving, Georgia. She didn't pull over and call police. She was only stopped because of car trouble.

[Kathleen Murphy]

She did nothing to help this family. She did nothing to help the two little boys. She did nothing to render aid help in any way. She didn't even go to a pay phone and call 911 anonymously to get help there.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, Cheryl, suffering the sudden and criminal death of somebody you love sticks with you forever, as you all know, having dealt with so many crime victims. But this mother and father were right there. One son died on the scene, Cheryl, and the car kept going.

[Kathleen Murphy]

What that must be like for them. I mean, Huck used to race bmx. And I can play right now in my head, the worst wreck he ever had and he was fine. But as a mother, you just play it over and over and over. What they must be living with, watching their two children mow down, one killed at the scene. One you have hope for for a moment. And then that snatch from you too, because this woman decides she wants to drink and street race. You're not Talking about a 17 year old kid that makes a stupid decision.

[Nancy Grace]

Believe it or not, wealthy socialite Rebecca Grossman accused suspect number one in mowing down two little boys out walking with their family. Gets a courtroom victory. But what happened when the boys lost their lives? According to police, this woman, Rebecca Grossman, prominent in her community and wealthy, not only mowed the two little boys down in front of mom and dad, but kept going. She was charged with suspicion of voluntary manslaughter and dui. I want you to take a listen to our cut number. Now you may recognize some of these voices. This is a montage of all the coverage about how fantastic this woman and her husband were. So many of us at ABC News know about the work that the Grossman Byrne foundation has done to provide so much care, new life for women, children, people around the United States and the world in need of that urgent medical care.

[Cheryl McCollum]

I just wanted to take a moment of your time this evening to Say a few words about the Grossman Byrne Foundation. This extraordinary organization is making a huge difference around the world. Another miracle at the Grossman Byrne center here in Southern California. The Grossman Byrne foundation has launched a campaign to stop the violence carried out against women around the world.

[Nancy Grace]

A local Oscar winning special effects artist has become a a hero to a woman on the other side of the globe. A woman whose face was destroyed by her own husband. Rebecca Grossman of the Grossman Byrne foundation found out about Eustance. Rebecca takes the prosthetics, travels to Indonesia and delivers them to Eustance in person. It's a day Eustance never thought would come. Finally, she gets the first sign of.

[Commercial Announcer]

Hope that she'll feel complete again.

[Nancy Grace]

You're hearing so much about the Byrne Foundation. Remember, this woman's husband is a prominent plastic surgeon. So they're well known and wealthy in that community. I know that the husband, who is, as I said, a wealthy and prominent plastic surgeon had been working with the Byrne Foundation. But what about the wife, Rebecca Grossman? And what about that particular day that these two little boys were mowed down? Take a listen to Tina Patel, CBSLA. Investigators arrested a 57 year old driver and charged her with vehicular manslaughter. A white Mercedes with front end damage was towed away about a half mile from the crash scene. But investigators would not confirm whether the driver stopped voluntarily or whether this was.

[Mark Klaas]

A hit and run.

[Nancy Grace]

People who live nearby hope this crash will be a wake up call for drivers to slow down and for the city to do more to protect pedestrians. You know, I want to go to you, Mark Klaas, founder of Class Kids foundation to Protect Children. Have you ever seen cases where the public doesn't get all the details, where a lot of the facts surrounding the case are kept under the rug? For instance, what is this woman's blood alcohol? They're not even saying that they'll confirm it was a hit and run. She was arrested about a mile away. Yes, it was a hit and run. I don't need a crime scene reconstructionist to tell me that. Mark. Class.

[Ray Caputo]

You know, Nancy, the nonprofit world is full of hypocrites. It's full of wealthy people who sit on boards of nonprofit organizations for no other reason than they can talk about themselves at cocktail parties and give each other awards for the great work that they do. And I think Cheryl can attest to that. She knows the nonprofit world as well. And I think that's exactly what we have here. Now they can, they can talk about how wonderful Mrs. Grossman is and all of the great things she's done, but she's also the woman who plowed down two little boys, bumped one of them off of the hood of her car and then ran over him again so that she could escape responsibility. This is a woman with no conscience. This is a woman with no morals. This is a woman who most certainly does not belong behind the driver's seat of a car.

[Nancy Grace]

Cheryl McCollum. I know that she's charged with suspicion DUI. Now, you know the case will be ruined if they did not do an appropriate blood alcohol content test on her, a blow test. That is the end of a DUI case. If you let her off the hook from that blow test at the scene, you can't prove at trial she was dui. So they have her charged with suspicion dui. Why would they have charged her with that? Cheryl?

[Kathleen Murphy]

There must be some evidence. Either they could smell alcohol on her breath, there was evidence in the car of a bottle or something like that. But Nancy, the other thing they're missing, they don't have the traditional things you would have with an accident like this. They're not going to have skid mark. She didn't stop.

[Nancy Grace]

Good point, good point.

[Kathleen Murphy]

So there's so many things they can't get her accurate speed. They may not have an accurate VA fix. They may not have it.

[Nancy Grace]

We do know this though, Cheryl. Now this is good news for the prosecution if they take the case all the way, if they don't get over impressed with money and prominence. Joe Scott Morgan, the professor of forensic Jacksonville State University and death investigator. The cops have broken down and told us that this socialite Rebecca Grossman did test over the legal limit. Explain.

[Cheryl McCollum]

Yeah, the legal limit dependent upon where you are is generally going to be in a range of about.0155 that that region right there and it's going to go to significant impairment and that is your motor function. How can you make judgments? But this is, this is one of the problems going back to what Max said just a second ago with her. You know, this woman has a history of driving while intoxicated. This is my question. If she is addicted to alcohol, her tolerance level is going to be much higher. So there are people that have a dependency upon alcohol that can still function be up, you know, whereas you or I might have a drink, couple glasses of wine or something, and we're out like a baby. This woman might go through two or three bottles of wine. She'll be upright and functioning. So it's, it's kind of A hit or miss. They need to have done this early on.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, now hold on. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Look at the front end of her Mercedes. You can see [e-mail].

[Cheryl McCollum]

Yeah, look at that. Yeah, if I could address that. Yeah, if I could address that. This is a full size Mercedes sedan, Nancy. And you know, Mercedes, one thing they're known for, it's not just a luxury car. They're known as being a safe car, well built. And Nancy, it looks like she ran into a damn telephone pole. It's a center mass strike. And just so people at home will understand, if you imagine that great big Mercedes symbol that sits right in the center of the grill, that's gone. And not only that, the hood itself is crushed in. This gives us an indication that when she struck these two little boys, as you mentioned just a second ago, in front of their parents, mind you, she was traveling at such a high rate that at least because I don't have all the data from the scene, it gives the appearance that she hit a fixed object, Nancy. Not, not some, you know, non anchored person like these two children. She hit something at such a high rate of speed, it literally collapsed the front of that car. I don't see how the airbags kept from deploying. And if you look at that image real quick, she did try to flee. The only reason she didn't get away. If you take a real close look at that image on Crime Online, you'll see that there are fluids that have poured out of the bottom of this thing, so it disabled the vehicle. My guess is, as Ray had alluded to earlier, is that if she could have put as much distance between her and that event that that homicide, then you would have had time for the blood alcohol to metabolize in her system. She would have gone. And this has happened numbers of times with high profile people over the years. If you don't have that science to back it up, if you don't know what the ba is at that moment in time, you've lost it forever.

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[Kathleen Murphy]

SH you won't.

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[Nancy Grace]

Only at Costco it's the coziest time of year on Britbox. That means making piping hot tea on a chilly day, wrapping yourself in something soft on the sofa and getting lost in a brilliant series this holiday season, Britbox has you sorted with the best of British tv. Curl up with eyebrow raising mysteries on the cliffy English coast in the new season of Beyond Paradise. I love Beyond Paradise. Escape to sweeping countryside manors where headline making Scandal is just another Tuesday in Outrageous. Or patrol the charged streets and criminal underbellies of Belfast in the new season of the BAFTA winning police drama Blue Lights. Britbox gives you the kind of entertainment that makes being home on a blustery day a true luxury. So however you cozy, it's all a bit warmer with Britbox. See holidays differently when you stream the best of British TV with BritBox, our family's favorite. Watch with a free trial [e-mail] Grand Canyon University, an affordable private Christian university based in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona, is one of the largest universities in the country. Praised for its culture of community and impact, GCU integrates the free market system, a welcoming Christian worldview and free and open discourse into 369 academic programs with over 300 of them online. Join a nationwide community of learners redefining what online education looks like through academically rigorous, industry driven programs that can spark bold ideas and prepare you for a future that matters. In addition to federal grants and aid, GCU's online students receive nearly $161 million in institutional scholarships in 2024 alone. Find your purpose at Grand Canyon University, Private Christian affordable. Visit gcu. Edu Myoffer to see the scholarships for which you could qualify. Crime stories with Nancy grand in the last days, millionaire socialite Rebecca Grossman making demands from behind bars. Does it never end with this woman? What happened that day when two little brothers were run down dead by her and then she lied about it? Six family members were crossing the three way intersection in a marked crosswalk on the road. The parents heard the speeding Mercedes. They could hear it speeding. And hearing the car, they reached out to grab their children. They grabbed Zachary and Violet. Mark and Jacob were too far away. They heard the speeding car. CHERYL now you understand the legal implications of this. They could hear it at a distance, speeding. There were no skid marks. The parents grabbed the children they can reach. The ones they couldn't reach were mowed down. Analyze it.

[Kathleen Murphy]

Cheryl McCollum Nancy, what you're going to have is you're going to have the police go. They've got to go back. They've got to get video from every ring camera. If they have the Flock system, they've got to get that video. They've got to trace her actions backwards. Where did she drink? How much did she drink? Where did she get it from? Did she pay for it? Was it already at home? Was she at a bar? When.

[Nancy Grace]

Yeah, they're going to retrace all of their her steps, at least I hope.

[Kathleen Murphy]

They are, that they've got to, Nancy, because they don't have anything else because again, they know the blood alcohol is going to be contested. They know that they're going to have a fight on their hands. So they've got to go back and show, just like you used to do, that this crime didn't occur at 9:47pm or 6:45. This crime occurred at 2:00 clock when she took her first drink. It occurred at 3:15 when she took the next one, it occurred at 5:60 when she had her third one and then she chose to get in the car after five or six or a bottle. And that's what they've got to show, the importance of that. They've got to go back and show every speeding ticket. They've got to show every failure to maintain lane. They've got to show every DUI she's ever had. Even if they reduced it to, you know, whatever they might have reduced it to, reckless driving or such, you know, we all know reckless driving usually is a DUI that's been reduced. They got to look at every single one, every single time her Prominent husband has saved her. They've got to go talk to friends and said, hey, how many cocktail parties does she throw? How often do y' all know her?

[Nancy Grace]

You know, it's gonna be critical that they trace her steps that day.

[Mark Klaas]

Amen.

[Nancy Grace]

Because Mark Klaas. I mean, have you ever heard accident used in DUIs? It's no accident, Mark Klaas, because as Cheryl McCullum was saying, you start in the day drinking. You decide to get your car key. You decide to walk out to your car after you've been drinking. You decide to insert the key in the ignition and start the car, put it reverse, and then drive. There you go. All those were conscious decisions, Mark.

[Ray Caputo]

Class, they were conscious decisions. Why a woman who's probably done that hundreds of times and doesn't really seem to care about the safety of anybody else feels that she's privileged enough that she can do what she wants when she wants and have some kind of a sterling reputation and a lot of money to fall back.

[Nancy Grace]

Straight out to Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina trial lawyer at the scene. We've seen so many celebrity walk a straight line test, touch your nose test, say, the ABC's test. What other tests are performed at the scene or supposed to be performed when cops suspect dui?

[Kathleen Murphy]

Well, obviously the markers are a breathalyzer. He could refuse the breathalyzer, she refuses the breathalyzer. They'll take blood work at the hospital.

[Ray Caputo]

Or wherever she's incarcerated.

[Kathleen Murphy]

I would suppose they can do the field sobriety test, such as heel toe. They also can take other steps to determine whether or not they're drinking, such.

[Ray Caputo]

As alcohol bottles in the car, the.

[Kathleen Murphy]

Smell of alcohol on that lady's breast.

[Nancy Grace]

We do know that this prominent socialite, Rebecca Grossman, was involved in an accident 2000 where the other driver claims she ran a red light driving over 65 in a 40 mph zone and plowed into the back of his car. The driver passed away later from ill health, but the insurance report includes his detailed description of the crash. Now, in that case, we know that Insurance paid out $100,000 in a settlement with Grossman. She was injured in that, too. So what, if anything, do we know about her history? Ray Caputo.

[Ray Caputo]

Well, Nancy, she's not a good driver, that's for sure. I mean, you can only speculate that. That that's connected to this. I. I mean, I don't know for sure, but it seems to be that the writing was on the wall for Ms. Grossman, and she had plenty of opportunity to fix, you know, some of the issues that she had in her life. But, you know, she didn't. And here we are. This tragedy was avoidable. It was something that shouldn't have happened. And now this family is living with us for the rest of their lives. And, you know, this Grossman's life is done too, pretty much. Her reputation is gone.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm really more worried about the two dead boys than anybody's reputation. Dr. Angela Arnold. What about the people surrounding her? I mean, according to a Daily Mail report, quote, she's a reckless driver, the socialite charged with killing two young boys in dui. Hit and run. Previously totaled another driver's car after, quote, speeding through a red light. And then she sued him even though she ran into the back of his car.

[Kathleen Murphy]

You know, Nancy, I don't believe that they should be calling her a socialite. I think that they should be calling her a sociopath. That is what this woman is at the, at the core of who she is. She is a sociopath. Why do we have to be describing this woman who has hit and killed two children and has absolutely no remorse, instead of a socialite, socialite, we should be calling her a sociopath today because that is.

[Nancy Grace]

And I'm just wondering, I mean, Cheryl McCollum, director of Mad Georgia Mothers Against Drunk Driving. Everybody around her, I mean, are they enabling her? Drinking and driving? Weigh in, Nancy.

[Kathleen Murphy]

I think the most important thing is forget everybody around her. This is solely on her. She did this. This is nothing new behavior. She chose to drink, she chose to drive. She chose to try to cover it up. She chose to try to hide her face. Now she has chosen not to reach out to the family and apologize. She has chosen to do all of these things that show exactly who she is. And I think that last statement was head on accurate. She is a sociopath.

[Nancy Grace]

Demands from behind bars. A wealthy socialite who runs down two little brothers racing her Mercedes after a boozy lunch makes new demands from behind bars. What's next? Two boys are dead and you're whining.

[Mark Klaas]

The Van Nuys Superior Court judge denied Grossman's bid to move the trial. Grossman's civil attorneys argued extensive negative publicity surrounding the accident and legal proceedings would inevitably bias local jurors against her, making a fair trial impossible. In LA County Judge Huey Cotton acknowledged that Grossman had been portrayed unfavorably on social media and drew attention from the press. But he agreed with the Iskander's attorneys that the news coverage mostly reported the facts rather than expressing outrage. Grossman's team argued a venue such as Solaire county in Central California, would provide a jury pool less prejudiced against their client. But the judge did not agree, saying the Los Angeles Superior Court handles high profile cases on a regular basis and expressed confidence that the court and attorneys on both sides will be able to ferret out prejudice in the jury pool and seat an impartial jury. That left one important question remaining. Will the Iskander attorneys be allowed to depose Grossman's husband a second time and her daughter Alexis for the first time? And that answer is yes. A judge ruled that Grossman Burn foundation co founder Rebecca Grossman cannot prevent attorneys from deposing her husband a second time and her daughter in a civil suit filed by the Iskander family. That trial is set to begin in February after Grossman was granted a request for a new date. It was scheduled to start January 5th. Judge Huey P. Cotton rejected arguments by Grossman's attorneys that the one previous deposition taken of the philanthropist husband, Dr. Peter Grossman by the plaintiff's attorneys was enough, adding that deposing daughter Alexis Grossman, 16 at the time of the crash would further traumatize the young woman already suffering from PTSD. The judge countered that Alexis, now 21, was able to testify on her mother's behalf at the criminal trial and she was one of the first people on the scene after the crash. The judge ruled the disability does not disqualify her from appearing at deposition. The judge also ruled husband Peter Grossman may have relevant information. Peter Grossman is a defendant in the suit on grounds he allegedly granted permissive use to his wife to drive the vehicle used in the accident. Included in the deposition motion is a request by the Iskanders to question the renowned plastic surgeon about the transfer title to the couple's sprawling 12 bathroom, 13,000 square foot hilltop mansion to a mystery trust and lawyer. It's now on sale for 13.5 million, according to court documents. With convicted child killer Rebecca Grossman now being accused of fraudulently hiding assets ahead of the wrongful death trial, they say Peter Grossman has firsthand knowledge of Rebecca's finances. The Iskander's attorney says the giant property is an asset subject to collection against Rebecca Grossman.

[Nancy Grace]

As always, our prayers with the victim's family at this hour and we wait as justice unfolds.

[Ray Caputo]

Goodbye, friend.

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[Nancy Grace]

Sh you won't believe what my new friend just told me about dinosaurs.

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[Nancy Grace]

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[Nancy Grace]

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