DOUBLE KILLER O.J. SIMPSON GETS SLAP IN THE FACE BEYOND THE GRAVE

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: DOUBLE KILLER O.J. SIMPSON GETS SLAP IN THE FACE BEYOND THE GRAVE
Date: July 11, 2026
Host: Nancy Grace, CrimeOnline & iHeartPodcasts
Featured Guests: Alan Duke, Art Harris, Joseph Scott Morgan, Ashley Wilcott

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Overview

This explosive episode of "Crime Stories with Nancy Grace" centers on the ongoing reckoning with O.J. Simpson’s legacy following his death, the Buffalo Bills’ decision to exclude him from their new stadium’s “family circle,” and the surfacing of a long-lost, shocking taped “hypothetical” confession—where Simpson chillingly recounts the night of the murders of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman. Nancy Grace and her panel of experts dissect these developments, revisit the infamous case’s details, and reflect on the enduring pain for the victims’ families.

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Key Discussion Points

1. The Buffalo Bills Distance Themselves from O.J. Simpson

[00:12]

• Nancy Grace highlights the Buffalo Bills' move to exclude O.J. Simpson from the honor circle in the new stadium.
• Quote: "It's about time somebody said double murder and domestic abuse trumps being an all star athlete." — Nancy Grace [00:58]
• The team's public statement asserts Simpson is “not fit” for display.

2. Discovery of Simpson’s "Hypothetical" Confession Tape

[02:13]

• Alan Duke recounts how a lost interview tape from 2006, featuring Simpson detailing (as an alleged hypothetical) the murders, was recently found and aired.
• The tape became the centerpiece of a new Fox Television documentary, with Soledad O'Brien as host.

Quote: “The story of how this apparent confession video was lost for a dozen years is crazy...” — Alan Duke [02:31]

3. O.J. Simpson’s Chilling On-Tape “Hypothetical” Account

[03:18 – 11:04; 47:37–51:44]

• The interview features Simpson describing the events of June 12, 1994, with disturbing specificity—allegedly “hypothetical.”
• He introduces a mystery accomplice “Charlie,” discusses bringing a knife, and describes the escalating confrontation at Nicole’s house.
• Simpson repeatedly uses the word "hypothetical" but slips into the first person, making the account sound like a true confession.

Notable Quotes:

• "I remember I grabbed a knife. I do remember that portion. Taking a knife from Charlie. And to be honest, after that, I don't remember, except I'm standing there and there's all kind of stuff around.” — O.J. Simpson [07:23]
• “I had never seen so much blood in my life.” — O.J. Simpson [07:52]
• "He was super saturated. We've never been able to find those clothes now, have we? And he... divested himself of these [because] he was so saturated." — Joseph Scott Morgan [31:10]

4. Analysis of Simpson’s Credibility & Motives

[11:04 – 15:03; 26:27–28:01]

• Panelists dissect the confession, highlighting Simpson's lack of sincerity and attempts to deflect blame (e.g., inventing “Charlie”).
• Ashley Wilcott: “I would find him not credible. Insincere. The laughter, all the things you described—there’s no sincerity.” [14:36]
• Nancy Grace asserts that the narrative matches trial evidence and murder scene reports.
• The guests agree: Simpson’s “hypothetical” is a veiled confession.

5. The Double Jeopardy Dilemma

[20:30–21:24]

• Listener calls in about potential for further prosecution given Simpson’s confession.
• Ashley Wilcott: “He cannot [be retried], not in the United States.” [21:20]
• Discussion of the legal finality and frustration for the victims’ families.

6. Disputing the Existence of “Charlie”

[26:27–28:14]

• The group debates the possibility of another perpetrator as suggested by Simpson.
• Nancy Grace and Ashley Wilcott refute any credible evidence of a “Charlie”; experts confirm autopsy and forensics indicate a single killer.

Quote: "He forgot about [Charlie] because he doesn't exist." — Nancy Grace [27:19]

7. Breakdown of the Crime Scene & Forensic Evidence

[28:14–31:24]

• Gruesome recounting of Nicole Brown’s and Ron Goldman’s injuries.
• Joseph Scott Morgan, forensic expert, describes the deep incised wounds, confirming the brutality and indicating personal rage.

Quote: "Nicole's throat was cut so deeply that it went down to her cervical spine... she had her head chopped off.” — Nancy Grace [29:53]

8. Domestic Violence Context

[23:24–25:16; 32:02–32:44; 43:57–44:44]

• Repeated reference to O.J.’s history of beating Nicole.
• Art Harris: “The LAPD’s district office nearby was almost on speed dial for Nicole's number because he was so abusive and violent.” [23:27]
• Simpson attempts to rationalize his behavior as “doing what any father would do,” which the panel decries as a textbook abuser’s excuse.

9. The Psychological Profile of Simpson

[39:49–42:53]

• Simpson, in his own words, portrays himself as another victim.
• "Ron and Nicole were physically dead, and it's almost like they killed me. Who I was, was attacked and murdered also." — O.J. Simpson [40:45]
• Panelists agree Simpson exhibits narcissistic and sociopathic tendencies.

10. The Bronco Chase and Aftermath

[34:43–39:23]

• Simpson recalls his mental state during the infamous slow-speed chase.
• He fixates on crowds cheering, downplays the reality of fleeing from police.
• Art Harris notes omitted details: carrying a disguise, possible intent to escape, and his detachment from the crime’s severity.
• Nancy Grace and panel critique his revisionist retelling.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• [00:58] Nancy Grace: “Double murder and domestic abuse trumps being an all star athlete.”
• [07:52] O.J. Simpson: “I had never seen so much blood in my life.”
• [11:34] Art Harris: “He is telling us how he did the crime hypothetically. But it doesn't come off that way, because he, he shifts into the first person.”
• [14:36] Ashley Wilcott: “He is not credible. I do not believe and would not Believe this is a hypothetical. I think it's a confession as to exactly what happened.”
• [29:53] Nancy Grace: “She had her head chopped off… The cut went so deep through her with such ferocity, it went all the way through her neck and left her head hanging by the skin in the back of her neck.”
• [40:45/41:00] O.J. Simpson: “Ron and Nicole were physically dead, and it’s almost like they killed me. Who I was, was attacked and murdered also.”
  Nancy Grace: “Did I just hear that? Art Harris, they killed him. He feels like they killed him.”
• [31:10] Joseph Scott Morgan: "He was covered with the blood of both of these people. Matter of fact, he was super saturated. We've never been able to find those clothes now, have we?"

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:12 – Bills refuse to honor O.J. Simpson
• 02:13 – Background: Discovery of lost confession tape
• 03:18–11:04 | 47:37-51:44 – Simpson’s chilling “hypothetical” walkthrough of the murders
• 11:34 – Panel analysis of the confession: is it a real admission?
• 14:36 – Expert panel consensus: This is a confession, not a hypothetical
• 20:30–21:24 – Double jeopardy and legal closure
• 26:27–28:14 – Disputing the existence of “Charlie”
• 28:14–31:24 – Forensics and details of the wounds
• 34:43–39:23 – Simpson recalls Bronco chase, panel discusses aftermath
• 39:49–42:53 – Simpson’s narcissism, psychological analysis
• 43:57–44:44 – Panel reflects on domestic violence and Nicole’s murder

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Panel Tone and Dynamic

• Persistent outrage and disbelief at Simpson’s self-serving narrative.
• Expressions of sympathy for the Brown and Goldman families.
• Professionals provide forensic, legal, and psychological insight; tone remains direct, at times incredulous, and always victim-centered.
• Nancy Grace’s signature style: impassioned, prosecutorial, and relentless in pursuit of truth.

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Key Takeaways

• The new evidence and “confession” tape reinforce what the panel and much of the public have long believed: O.J. Simpson murdered Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman.
• Simpson’s legacy as an athlete is permanently tainted by the brutality of the crimes and his brazen attempts to recast his actions as justifiable or even “hypothetical.”
• The law’s inability to bring further charges underscores the limits of the justice system and the enduring pain for victims’ families.
• The podcast provides catharsis and vindication for many, as the narrative control shifts from defense tactics to the raw, appalling details of what occurred.

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This episode stands as both an exposé of Simpson’s manipulations and a tribute to the victims, reminding listeners that, despite celebrity and legal technicalities, the truth remains inescapable.

Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

This is an I heart podcast, guaranteed human crime stories with nancy grace.

[Nancy Grace (alternate or pre-recorded segment)]

Take that, Orenthal James Simpson. That's right. O.J. simpson finally gets one of the many, many slaps in the face he deserves. Some would argue he deserved the death penalty for a double murder that did not happen. But at least now, revenge best served cold. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us in the last hours. We learn the Bills, the Buffalo Bills refuse to honor O.J. simpson at Highmark Stadium in Western New York as part of the team's family circle area just outside the the incredible venue. They're moving into this brand new stadium and they're leaving part of their past behind them. They say, quote, we have made an organizational decision that he is not fit to display inside our new stadium and family circle. That according to the bill's president of Business operations, Pete Gill. Well, it's about time somebody said double murder and domestic abuse trumps being an all star athlete. Now the family circle will include American Bison statutes and plaques that honor the past great football players who wore the Bills jersey, the red and the Blue. Simpson spent nine of his 11 years in the NFL with the Bills. He led the league in rushing four times, including the 73 season. That was when he eclipsed the 2,000 yard plateau. But none of it, none of it, all the football glory, all the gridiron greatness cannot erase the bloodstain on the memory of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman.

[Nancy Grace]

This is what happened after all this time. Simpson confesses and it is caught on tape. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Joining me of course is Alan Duke. Alan, you're there in LA weighing in on this.

[Alan Duke]

Nancy, the story of how this apparent confession video was lost for a dozen years is crazy. I was invited to Fox studios in Los Angeles to view the raw video even as they were still working to turn it into the documentary that just aired. Work on the original documentary was abandoned in 2006 for what reason I'm not sure, but I was told it was forgotten about, lost, found only in recent weeks when they were clearing out an office at Fox Television when they put the tape in an old machine to see what it was. They were stunned but quickly realized how valuable and significant it was. And it took them little time to hire Soledad o' Brien to help turn it into the show that was aired this month by Fox Television.

[Nancy Grace]

Let's just kick it off. Take a listen to O.J. simpson in his own words.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Six uninterrupted minutes, O.J. puts himself, hypothetically at the scene of the crime. The chapter, chapter six is called the Night in Question. And you write in the book. Now picture this. And keep in mind that this is hypothetical. Hypothetical. Why don't you tell me what might have happened on the night of June 12, 1994, and let's just walk through them.

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, first of all, this is very difficult for me to do this. It was very difficult for me because it's hypothetical. I know, and I accept the fact that people are going to feel whatever way they're going to feel. You know, they're going to

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

whatever.

[O.J. Simpson]

Whatever they want to feel. In the book, the hypothetical is Charlie.

[Art Harris]

Charlie.

[O.J. Simpson]

This guy, Charlie shows up, the guy who had recently become friends with. And I don't know why he had been buying the Cole's house, but it told me, you wouldn't believe what's going on over there. And. And I remember thinking, well, whatever's going on over there has got to stop. Right. So we kind of hooked up together. And, you know, I'm kind of broad stroking this. We go over. Get into Bronco and go over.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Let's just go back and do the details. Where did you park?

[O.J. Simpson]

You park in the hypothetical, go in the alley.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

You park in the alley and you put on a wool cap and gloves.

[O.J. Simpson]

In the hypothetical, I put on cap and gloves.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Right. And you reached under the seat for a knife.

[O.J. Simpson]

I always kept a knife in the car for the crazies and stuff because you can't travel with a gun. And I remember Charlie saying, you ain't bringing that. And I didn't. Right. But I believe he took it.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Charlie took the knife?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah. In the book.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Yeah.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

So the back gate, you go through the back gate?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

And it was open or broken or.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Okay.

[O.J. Simpson]

I go to the front, and I'm looking to see what's going on. And I can see that it appears like Nicole. I had candles all the time. She really did, to keep her overhead down, I think. And music was on. And while I was there, a guy shows up.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

So Ron Goldman comes in the back

[O.J. Simpson]

aid a guy I really didn't recognize. I may have seen him around, but I really didn't recognize him to be anyone.

[Ashley Wilcott]

And.

[O.J. Simpson]

And I. In the mood I was in, I started having words with him.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

He says to you, I just came by to return a pair of glasses. Judy left them at the restaurant.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah. Words to that effect. Yes.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

And.

[O.J. Simpson]

And he was. I don't know if I believed it or didn't believe it. It was pretty much immaterial because, you know, I was more concerned about everything that, everything that was going on, you know, and was fed up with it, I guess.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

And you get into a fight. Nicole comes out verbal.

[O.J. Simpson]

A verbal, A verbal fight got a little loud. And by that time, Nicole had come out and we started having words about, who is this guy? Why is he here? What's going on?

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

And she says, this is my house. Get that the F out of here.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. And which I didn't like, because once again, this is the same person. And if you read the book, you'll see some things that happened in the two weeks leading up to this that were very, very irritating. You know, I think Charlie had followed this guy in, wanted make sure it was no problem. And he brought the knife. As things got heated. I just remember the cold fell and hurt herself. And this guy kind of got into a karate thing. And I said, well, you think you can kick my ass? And I remember I grabbed a knife. I do remember that portion. Taking a knife from Charlie. And to be honest, after that, I don't remember, except I'm standing there and there's all kind of stuff around. And

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

what kind of stuff?

[O.J. Simpson]

But, and stuff around. You know, we, you know, I hate to say this, but this is argument.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

I'm sorry.

[O.J. Simpson]

I know we gotta back up again.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

That's okay. I'm gonna back up.

[O.J. Simpson]

That's hard. That's hard.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

It's hard. I know. I'm gonna back up.

[O.J. Simpson]

Try to make people think that I'm a Nerf.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

I know, I know. You wrote in the book I had never seen so much blood in my life.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Covered. You're covered. The scene. Can you describe?

[O.J. Simpson]

I, I, it's hard for me to describe it. I'm telling you, I don't think any two people could be murdered the way they were without everybody been covered in blood. And of course, I think we've all seen the grizzly pictures after. So, yeah, I think everything was covered. Would have been covered in blood.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

And what goes through your mind at a time like that?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know. It's like what happened.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

You write about removing a glove before taking the knife from Charlie.

[O.J. Simpson]

You know, I had no conscious memory of doing that, but obviously I must have because they found a glove there and blacking out.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Have you ever blacked out before?

[O.J. Simpson]

Not to my knowledge, no. No, of course. Of course. If something like this would take place in anybody's life, if it were to happen, I would imagine it's something that you would probably automatically have trouble wrapping your mind around was horrible. It was absolutely horrible.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Staggering firsthand details about the crime scene, which he says are hypothetical. You wrote in the book, I had never seen so much blood in my life.

[O.J. Simpson]

It's hard for me to describe it. I'm telling you, I don't think any two people could be murdered the way they were without everybody been covered in blood.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Then you see bloody footprints and you decide to take off.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes, Actually, I believe Charlie kept saying, we got to get out of here.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

And in the book, you describe taking off your shoes, your pants and your shirt and dropping it in a bundle. Do you remember that?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

And do you remember what happened?

[O.J. Simpson]

Because what are you gonna do with it? Yeah, somebody's got to get rid of, as you may have called during the trial, is where are the bloody clothes? So somebody had to get rid of the bloody clothes.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Right. And you had left your key and wallet in your pants pocket, and you had to go back and get it.

[O.J. Simpson]

You know, to be honest, I think I know that to be true. Yes, yes.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

And Charlie is hysterical, screaming, jesus Christ, RJ Jesus Christ. And you tell him to shut up.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah, he's in a panic. He was in a panic, and I'm telling him to shut up. Let's get out of here.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

So you get back in the car, you've taken your clothes, put them in

[O.J. Simpson]

the bundle, and drove back and parked a block away, because I knew the limo would be there and came across the backyard through the two tennis courts and, you know, came through the house.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

So you went through the neighbors?

[O.J. Simpson]

Neighbors, yeah. He had a tennis court, then I had a tennis court.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

And you go into the house and what happens in the house?

[O.J. Simpson]

I ran upstairs to take a shower. I actually ran upstairs and took some of my bags and came back downstairs and put them out front.

[Nancy Grace]

Joining me right now, forensic expert in his field, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, Joseph Scott Morgan. Also with me, a sitting judge, renowned victims advocate Ashley Wilcott. Also with me, Emmy award winning reporter, investigative journalist, Art Harris. Art Harris, you know, Simpson, you have covered the story forever. You were there during the entire drama. You know, some things never change, do they, Art?

[Art Harris]

Nancy, what shocks me, people would come up to me like they probably did you and ask, do you think he's guilty? Well, after covering him for 24 years and hearing this confession, which I would call it, they can't ever ask that question again. This is OJ Recreating a lot of the things that we believed and reported from other sources. He is telling us how he did the crime hypothetically. But it doesn't come off that way because he, he shifts into the first person. And it is really, really disgusting to listen to a convicted killer who once upon a time was making money off or would have off this book and

[Nancy Grace]

off the interview out to Joseph Scott Morgan, Joe Scott. When you hear it laid out that way, it addresses every question that was raised at trial or weigh in from your point of view.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah. What we have, Nancy, is that this, this hypothetical that he puts, puts forward actually kind of marries up with a lot of things that we see presented vis a vis the crime scene reports at the time and his presence there. And that's the key to all of this connectivity between him and the violence that was exacted, exacted on these people. Let's keep in mind, Nancy, his, you know, revisiting past history here, his DNA doesn't just show up miraculously at the scene. It was, it was physically there. It was physically adjacent to, to other evidence at that scene. And it's, it's quite compelling. So yeah, it just, it baffles my mind as, as a death investigator that we're literally sitting here listening to him kind of narrate this event in this, in this odd, bizarre way that he does, you know, in, in and kind of, you know, embroidery with this bizarre laughter that he insults every now and then. Yeah.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, Ashley Wilcock, the laughter is so bizarre is a good way to describe it. But the way, I mean, you look at him in the face, Ashley, and you and I have had so many lying witnesses on the stand and watch them, looks right at my old friend Judith Regan and says, Charlie told him all this. And with a straight face. With a straight face. And what a crazy hypothetical, this so called Charlie, no last name, says, man, if did you. Do you know what's happening over there? I mean, from Simpson's home, you cannot see what's happening at Bundy. Okay. You can't see what's happening at Nicole Brown's home. So this Charlie person comes in and says, hey, you know what's happening over there? And they get in the car and go over. And now we learn Simpson keeps his knife under his seat.

[Ashley Wilcott]

Ashley, if I were the sitting judge and if this hypothetical scenario confession were being said in front of me as his testimony, I would find him not credible. Insincere. The laughter, all the things that you've described, Nancy, you know as well as I do there's no sincerity. He is not credible. I do not believe and would not Believe this is a hypothetical. I think it's a confession as to exactly what happened.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, I agree with you. With me, everybody. Forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, Ashley Wilcott, an Emmy award winning journalist, Art Harris. Listen to O.J.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

simpson seeing her and leaning over and kissing her. Can you tell me that story?

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, no, it was tough. I just remember seeing her there and I still had so many feelings of. If you're angry with a person upon their death, if you're angry with somebody about whatever's going on in your life when they die, it's not like that anger disappears. Right. And, and because of the 911 call, when I'm yelling at her about what's going on, it was like I want, it was almost like I wanted to say, I told you, Didn't I tell you? Didn't I say to you, you know, whatever the hell was going on? You know what I mean? Didn't I? So you still got those kind of feelings in you and you still are trying to deal with. I'm not going to be able to say this to this person. I'm never going to be able to change this person's mind. I'm never going to have an effect on this person again. Again.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

What did you say to her when you leaned over and kissed her?

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't know if I said anything, to be honest with you. I'm told that I, that some person said they hurt me, saying, I'm sorry. I just recall Judy Brown pulling me over, looking me in the eye. Did you have anything to do with this? And I know I told her no

[Nancy Grace]

crime stories with Nancy Grace.

[Nancy Grace (alternate or pre-recorded segment)]

Well, the Bills got a backbone and stood up to the memory of O.J. simpson, refusing to include him in the family circle outside their brand new stadium. Congratulations, Bills. Because a lot of football lovers refuse to believe O.J. simpson did it, even though he writes a book if I Did it and lays out the scenario of the murders but is on field. Greatest moments that led to his membership in the hall of Fame are overshadowed by the murders of his beautiful ex wife, Nicole Brown and her friend Ron Goldman. The brutality is something I will never forget.

[Nancy Grace]

To Art Harris joining me. You know, Art, you know all the players so well. It's even after her death, he's still angry. And what it boils down to is he's angry at the thought she may be with another man.

[Art Harris]

That's right, Nancy. He looks in the window, when he goes over, he sees candles and he's claiming, oh, she's saving money on lights. But he Knows she's in there for a romantic evening with Ron Goldman, and he. The guy shows up and he cannot contain himself and really starts. Picks a fight and then blames it on Ron Goldman. Well, he got into a karate stance, and he was, like, challenging me, and I had a knife. So basically I had to kill him. I mean, he does. He says he blacks out. But, Nancy, everything they found at the scene here matches up to the police investigation that the defense tried to debunk. Remember, no bloody footprints, no DNA. I mean, everything is now confirmed by his hypothetical confession. He's got blood all over him. He's got bloody footprints there that match the Bruno Magali shoes the FBI proved he was wearing. And, I mean, it's unbelievable that this fills in the gaps of all the evidence that was supposedly faulty evidence, Nancy. And it's now confirmed. The glove. He admits he dropped the glove at the scene. So that means Mark Fuhrman was telling the truth. You know, the witness they put up to try to scapegoat the lapd, suddenly, OJ Simpson has just shown the defense to be a complete charade. And, you know, as we suspected.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, I look back on all that time Ashley Wolcott, that I co hosted Cochran and Grace with Johnnie Cochran, God rest his soul. And so often, until I kept getting the same answer, I quit asking him. I would say, cochran, you know, he did it. You know he did it. Every time, Ashley, Johnny would say the same thing and hold up both his hands like, I don't know, and he'd say, jury acquitted him. That was always his answer. It was well practiced because people were always coming up to him saying that. So that was his answer. And it was true. The jury did acquit him. But I gotta tell you, Ashley, it is a kick in the stomach, a kick in the teeth to hear Simpson say this. Because for me, having been a crime victim, to think about the Goleman and the Brown family having to hear this after all these years, I mean, it's nothing they didn't know, but it's just so incendiary, Ashley.

[Ashley Wilcott]

And even if it's something you don't know, once you hear the actual person saying it in his own words, that changes it. You may think, you know, like, we know he did it. But then to hear him describe all of this in his own words, I think if I were the victim, I'd feel like, okay, he had a great defense team, but even so, how did he get acquitted? How could he not be convicted? The evidence was there. Now we hear his Words proving the evidence. How in the world did this man not get convicted? That's how I would feel.

[Nancy Grace]

Guys, thank you for calling it at 909-492-7463. Let's go to the calls.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, my question is about this O.J. simpson hypothetical confession. I'm wanting to know if I know the double jeopardy rule and everything, that he could never be charged again with their murders.

[Art Harris]

But I want to know if there's

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

anything else he could be charged with if he was to, you know, actually say he did it. So that's kind of what I'm wanting to know if, you know, anybody could charge him with anything else if he confessed.

[Nancy Grace]

Thanks for the question, Ashley. Sadly, even with an outright confession, he cannot be retried because of double jeopardy.

[Ashley Wilcott]

That's right, he cannot. In some countries, you can be. Not in the United States.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

This is hypothetical. Hypothetical.

[Art Harris]

I just wonder why he had to

[O.J. Simpson]

resort to such a terrible way to

[Art Harris]

assuage his hate or something similar to that.

[Ashley Wilcott]

I still don't believe he did it. I believe Nicole was tied up with a lot of people that do this, so drugs. And I believe that they're the ones that killed her.

[Nancy Grace]

Let's go back to O.J. simpson essentially confessing, occasionally throwing in, oh, yeah, this hypothetical. But clearly he is confessing to the night he committed a double murder.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Listen, what was the hardest thing for you at that time that people, you write in the book that you couldn't believe that people thought you were a murderer?

[O.J. Simpson]

It was hard to believe that it seemed so easy listening to TV that week that it was that easy for people to believe that I could. I could kill two people. I thought that my whole life meant something. I thought the type of guy that I lived my life being pretty upstanding. I mean, like, everybody had my faults. Like most men in my position, position, sometimes temptations of the flesh is there, you know, but for the most part, I've always thought I was a straight shooter. Straight shooter. In any event, that. That was hard for me to accept, that it was so easy for people

[Nancy Grace]

to believe that, okay, is he insane? I guess the answer would have to be yes at this point because Art Harris, you know, Simpson's character, you have, you have investigated him for so long. You know, he was deeply involved in drugs, cheated, beat his wife. I mean, how many 911 calls were there where he beat Nicole Brown? I never will forget that photo of her up in the courtroom with her face all swollen up and black and blue because of him. Those 911 calls where he's beating the door down to try to get at her and beat her. Almost sounded inhuman.

[Art Harris]

That's right.

[Nancy Grace]

So now he's saying he's a pretty good gu. Yeah.

[Art Harris]

And Nancy, I mean, the LAPD's district office nearby was almost on speed dial for Nicole's number because he was. He was so abusive and violent and of course, then blamed it on her. This was the poster child for domestic violence. And he really created an awareness that we now are sensitive to. But this was. It was horrific to hear what she went through.

[Ashley Wilcott]

And.

[Art Harris]

And then now we have him blaming her again. I know he did a tremendous amount of drugs. She was trying to get him to cut down on the coke, according to people I interviewed. And he has been the one to blame her for partying, and now, of course, blames her for having to do what he did because he caught her with another man. He had just bought her a Ferrari. He had just paid for her cosmetic surgery. And he says in this interview she was looking pretty good. Well, he went over that night, to quote, as he said in the interview, to, quote, get some. Well, he didn't. And suddenly she's lying there, Nancy, in a pool of blood. Blood he's got all over him. And of course, the trial discounts all that.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, another thing, Ashley Wilcott, that I hate about this is that even in death, he's dragging her through the mud, claiming that he heard through the grapevine she was having group sex parties at the home. That's what he says. And I know Jackie just turned around and gave me a look, but that's what he's saying, that. That is what he went over there to stop.

[Ashley Wilcott]

He is a classic abuser, and he's narcissistic because he thinks, oh, it's everybody else's fault, and everybody else is at fault, and I didn't do anything wrong. I still don't think he thinks he did anything wrong, even in killing these two individuals.

[Nancy Grace]

Out to Joe Scott Morgan. Joe, I want you to hear this next sound. Listen to Simpson essentially confessing to a double murder. And, yes, he has walked free. Listen.

[O.J. Simpson]

So I had run into her, which they tried to say was stalking because her and some friends were at a opening of a restaurant. I was there with, like, 16 people. So I'm like, if I'm stalking you, I'm stalking you with. With my crew. You know, we're all there, too, you know, And I saw her, and I went over and spoke to her and her group. Then I went out, my group to a Party. But on the way home, I'd say I'll see if she's home. Because if she's still up, I don't know how late she stayed out. Maybe I can get some. In any event, as I approach the front door, she has a window right along the walkway there. I can hear something and I can see movement. And when I look, I can obviously see she was involved in something. I didn't know who it's with or what, and I hit the door and left.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

When you knocked on the door?

[O.J. Simpson]

No, I just hit the door. I wanted them to be aware that somebody's around and maybe they'd move or something. That's why I didn't even look. I just hit the door twice and left.

[Nancy Grace]

Alan, what happened to Charlie? Because now he has dropped all pretense of a hypothetical. I guess he forgot about Charlie and, you know, I'm using air quotes, Alan.

[Art Harris]

Charlie is a fictional name and allegedly hypothetical situation. There's a lot of speculation on who Charlie is. Charlie could still be tried, right? I mean, if we could figure out who Charlie.

[Nancy Grace]

Allen. Allen, what are you saying? There is no Charlie. What?

[O.J. Simpson]

What.

[Nancy Grace]

What are you even.

[Art Harris]

I said he's a fictional person in a hypothetical scenario. But it's probably real, what OJ Is saying. It sounds so real. I. I believe there's a Charlie. I really believe. And who is it?

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

I think that there could be another

[Art Harris]

person who went by Nicole's house the night of the. Of the murders, saw something going on, went and told OJ and then went with him. I think he's actually telling the truth.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, Ashley Wilcott. There is no evidence at all of a Charlie. I don't know if Alan Duke is listening to the same interview I am, but at this point in the interview, he's not even discuss Charlie anymore. He forgot about him because he doesn't exist.

[Ashley Wilcott]

Ashley, he did forget about him. And not only that, even if you want to think, well, maybe there's a Charlie, he is not credible. He is not reliable. Listen to his testimony. The fact that that Nicole is dead and he's talking about. Oh, I want to go get some. Nothing he has said sounds at all remotely credible, including a Charlie he's now forgotten about.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, another thing to you, Joe Scott Morgan, you have studied the autopsy over and over and actually autopsies. There is no evidence that there was a second perpetrator.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

No, no, there's. There's not. Nancy. I think a lot of people and if I could just interject this, I actually sat across the table At a luncheon many years ago across the, across the table from Dr. Irwin Golden. Golden. And Dr. Golden is the person that actually did the autopsies on, on Nicole and Ron. And I remember looking at him and thinking about the things that he had seen in the autopsy room, much like stuff that I'd seen over my years and whatnot, and thinking this man of science is sitting there and he knows, he knows what he bore witness to in that autopsy room and just thinking that he, he's in an upside down universe because no one was buying for whatever reason. Maybe it was because the late Johnnie Cochran, this hard evidence that, that we had, and at the end of the day, that's what this all comes down to, is the hard evidence. Many people out there, they, it's been put forth that, that he was, that, that both of these people were stabbed, Nancy. They were not staff. These injuries, when you look at these autopsy reports, these are incised injuries. And what that means is that the leading edge of a blade was drug across the surface of the skin. It's not like they were poked or something like this. Nicole's throat was cut so deeply that it went down to her cervical spine, Nancy. And it's not just once or twice, it's, it's several times.

[Nancy Grace]

Can I just put it in language that everybody will understand? She had her head chopped off. Her cervical spine is your neck. She was decapitated. There was a layer of skin holding her head on. The cut went so deep through her with such ferocity, it went all the way through her neck and left her head hanging by the skin in the back of her neck. Is that right, Joe Scott?

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, yeah it is, Nancy. And these injuries can only be achieved in one of two ways. Either someone was on top of her, slicing her, or they were behind her, her head held back, probably at the forehead with a knife being drugged across the front of her throat all the way down. This isn't a one off circumstance. He, you know, he's sitting there arrogantly saying, you know, and this is what really reached out and grabbed me about the whole interview. Haha, you know, well, anybody that would have been there, we'd all be covered with blood. Yeah, you know, you were covered with blood. He was covered with the blood of both of these people. Matter of fact, he was super saturated. He was saturated so much. We've never been able to find those clothes now, have we? And he, they divested himself of these clothing because it was so, he was so saturated. He knows what happened, Nancy. He knows what happened.

[Nancy Grace]

Take A listen to Orenthal James Simpson

[O.J. Simpson]

in his own words, doing that 911 tape that everybody hears me yelling. I'm saying, I don't want these girls around my kids. And that's the only thing that argument on that 911 tape was about. I went to her house in the bread or the riot act. I did what any father would do. And yet, you know, people listen to that tape and made me this horrible person whenever they hear that 9:1 tape. Can you believe he's yelling at her about this? Well, when the cops came, it became apparent. She said, I was yelling to her about this and only this. That's the only reason I was there reading her the riot act is I don't want these people around my kids.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, I mean, the obvious thing, Ashley, is if he had wanted a say in his children's life, and he wouldn't have beaten Nicole Black and blue, threatened to kill her on so many occasions. They finally broke up, and she was living with the children. There's a reason she had custody, Ashley, and it's not because everybody thought he was a bad person, is because he's violent.

[Ashley Wilcott]

Right. And for him to say, oh, I did what every father. And he. No, he said, I did what any father would do is insulting to fathers, because he absolutely did not do what most fathers would do. To go over there and attack her verbally and again, make sure she's the victim of domestic violence in front of those kids is not right.

[Nancy Grace]

Here we go. O.J. simpson, I want to talk about the

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

first time you met Nicole Brown.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Where was it?

[O.J. Simpson]

It was right on ordeal, a place called the Daisy. It's a little breakfast place. And I ran into a friend of mine. He said, let's have breakfast. And when we walked in, this vision turned to me and said, where do you want to sit? And I remember thinking, what a gorgeous girl. But I can't deal with this. So three days later, when I came back, I went back into the Daisy Inn, was having lunch with the owner, and she came back in, and I said, man, I would really like to take this girl out. And he called her over and introduced us and said, this is one of the good guys.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

And you were together from then on?

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, yeah. Well, I had to take her before we went to the party. I had to explain to her that I was married when I wasn't married. It sounded like a line, but after we talked, I think she believed me. And we're together ever since.

[Nancy Grace]

You know what's weird about that? Art Harris, he Talks like I would ask you, where did you meet Carol, your wife? Well, it seems like he's kind of glossing over the fact that he murdered her.

[Art Harris]

Oh, yeah. This is a justification. Well, you know, she was this beautiful waitress, this woman who I met and, you know, I finally got to hook up with her and we lived happily ever after. I mean, this is someone who, in the middle of confessing later that he sliced her to pieces, is talking kind of and laughing about the first time he met her, as, you know, as he's this little infatuated young guy. But in fact, she's his possession. And it explains why he was so enraged that she would dare be with another man after, of course, he'd beaten her senseless for years. This is someone who feels justified in protecting all his possessions. And she was one of his possessions that he's furious left him.

[Nancy Grace]

O.J. simpson now describes the Bronco chase.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

I'm going to go back to the Bronco and if you can just give me some of the details of what you, what you said to each other and somebody.

[O.J. Simpson]

Well, going. There wasn't a lot of conversation, but basically it was just.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

You had a gun.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah, but it was in the bag in the back at that point with the pictures and stuff. The police like to say it was with a passport. I always had my passport there. They said I had $10,000. I think I had like $3 or something. That changed. As a matter of fact, when I was let out of jail after my trial and they were giving me all my things back, all the stuff that was in the Broncos, that was mine back, I said, where's the $10,000? Where's my $10,000 that you guys claimed that I had?

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

What are you thinking? You're in the car.

[O.J. Simpson]

I'm in the back of the. Still in the back of the truck. And I can't believe what I'm seeing because every time we go by intersections, it was like, where did these people get the time to make these signs go OJ and stuff? And what was strange is I had been, I was being depicted as a fugitive on the radio, but from the side of the roads it was more people cheering.

[Nancy Grace]

I feel like I could use a shrink right now because instead of focusing on the fact that he is on a slow speed chase from police after his wife, his ex wife has been murdered and his children no longer have a mother, and he's suspect number one. He's talking about people holding up posters. That's what his mind remembers. Art Harris. I remember that but what I remember is him getting away from police, holding himself hostage with a gun the whole time. And he did not travel with his passport all the time. He took it because he was trying to figure out where he was going to go, but he never made it. He's rewriting history again, Nancy.

[Art Harris]

That's right, in fact. But he forgets to tell us he also had that disguise, you know, that he might be wearing if he were to make it to the California Mexico border where he was headed. And he doesn't talk about the long phone conversation he had with the LAPD homicide detective, Tom Lang, who was trying to talk him out of, quote, killing himself. Well, you know, we thought he felt so guilty about what he had done that that's, that's what was going on. But here he is making light of that whole thing. We see what is really going through his head is his fans. If he thinks people still love him, hey, that's what he wants to hear. And so this is real disconnect, Nancy, with. With what was going on at the time.

[Nancy Grace]

Crime stories with nancy grace.

[Nancy Grace (alternate or pre-recorded segment)]

Of course. Simpson was acquitted in the murder charges there in la. Many people claim it was jury nullification. He was then ordered to pay $33.5 million to both the Brown and Goldman family, which he never paid. He then goes on to serve nine years behind bars over a robbery and kidnapping where he busted into a Vegas hotel to confront dealers of memorabilia that he wrongfully claimed belonged to him. He got out of that jam November 2017, then spent the rest of his life chasing Nicole Brown look alikes and living the high life, signing autographs in bars and restaurants, getting free tea times and meals. But now he's having supper with Satan. Enjoy. Why do I say that? Because of the facts. It's all about the facts.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, Ashley Wolcott, it's just the same scenario. It doesn't really change. The person goes on the run. They have a big wad of cash. They have a disguise. I'm glad you reminded me of that, Art, because I'd forgotten that detail. Got a gun, money, passport, disguise. When a cop comes up behind me, I pull over because I don't want to make it worse. I also don't want to get shot. I don't want to get beat up. You do what the cop tells you to do. He was running from the cops. Bam. That's what was happening.

[Ashley Wilcott]

Yep. And he almost sounded like he got off on it because he was like, oh, I saw all these people cheering. It was great. And so keep in Mind, though, we can't attribute rational thought to this man who has murdered two people. So he was running from the cops.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, take a listen to this.

[O.J. Simpson]

I loved her to no end, you know, and always loved her. You know, I. I think what happened, it became reverse of what she said to me when she wanted a divorce. I loved her, but I didn't like her. I wasn't in love with her. That's what she had said to me, to get a divorce. And I kind of figured that's where we were at at the time of her death. I loved her, but I wasn't in love with her, you know, and to some degree, I didn't really like her, but I didn't. Like. I thought she was losing herself.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Did you feel lost?

[O.J. Simpson]

In many ways, you know, it's almost like you were. Ron and Nicole were physically dead, and it's almost like they killed me. Who I was was attacked and murdered also in that short period of time. And once again, to this day, it bugs me that it seems that people wanted me to be guilty. Not really. Really bothers me. And even sometimes this day, I just. I'm a little calcified to it all. Today. I can, you know, my friends and family and I, because of so many stories in the tabloids that are not true, we. We just live with it, you know, I loved her to no end, you know, and always loved her.

[Ashley Wilcott]

And yes, O.J. simpson's guilty. I knew that. And when it happened back in the 90s, what a joke.

[Art Harris]

There must have been other ways that he could have addressed his problem and

[Ashley Wilcott]

that resort, as I said, to murder.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Did you feel lost?

[O.J. Simpson]

In many ways, yeah. You know, it's almost like you were. Ron and Nicole were physically dead, and it's almost like they killed me. Who I was, was attacked and murdered also.

[Nancy Grace]

Did I just hear that? Art Harris, they killed him. He feels like they killed him.

[Art Harris]

That's right. Nancy. This is unbelievable. But it explains why for so long, he's able to. To distance himself in his mind from the horror that he did to these two people. He's a sociopath who can rationalize anything he does by compartmentalizing the murders. And, you know, as I write on my website, artharris.com, that now he can no longer run. Nancy, every time he looks in the mirror, after we hear this con, we hear this confession, he's going to look in the mirror and see the killer staring back at him.

[Nancy Grace]

But, you know, just gotten. Morgan, you and I have handled so many murder cases. I swear I don't think he understands. I don't think he looks in the mirror and sees a double killer. I think he looks in the mirror and sees a superstar.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, I'd agree. I think that, you know, playing pop psychologist here, I think he's, you know, narcissistic, you know, person that, that views himself as above all of this, you know, all of these tawdry details. They're not tawdry details. These are two people that he slaughtered. And, you know, what you were just discussing with Art, this, this, this idea that, you know, that they killed him. What level of arrogance does that take? But, you know, you see this repeated over and over again, and that's what brings us back home, Nancy, is that O.J. simpson is no different than anybody else we've ever investigated. It's just that he's got a higher profile and he's gotten away with it. You know, a lot of people don't have the advantages that he had. You know, they can't get million dollar dream teams and the best forensic scientists in the world to come in and talk on their behalf. At the end of the day, he's a thug. That's what it comes down to.

[Nancy Grace]

Take a listen to Simpson in his confession.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

When she asked for the separation in 1992, you write in the book, I felt like I'd been kicked in the.

[O.J. Simpson]

It was shocking. It was absolutely shocking. Her and her mother had been to New York a few weeks before that. She had talked about how happy she was. She had gotten her body completely back. She was looking great. She was finally wearing all her fancy stuff. Well, I realized, no, it was because she had a boyfriend. I didn't know. Well, I didn't know she had a boyfriend. Of course it hurts. I didn't think it would happen. And for two or three months, I pursued her to no end until I saw her with another guy. And at that point, what are you gonna do? A girl's with another guy, I mean, he could be an idiot.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, he's still talking about her being with other people. I mean, Art Harris, Ashley Wolcott, Jo Scott Morgan. Let me throw this to Ashley. How many beatings does it take until Nicole finally decided to divorce? She didn't divorce him to date other people. She divorced him because he wouldn't stop beating her.

[Ashley Wilcott]

And what's so sad in this case is that's a typical victim, right? Once you become a victim of domestic violence, it is very hard to walk away, to know how to escape because of the cycle of domestic violence. When you are a victim. So here she did things to protect herself, which can be very hard to do. She got a divorce, she walked away. She tried to get away from his abusive, abusive fist. And yet he comes after her and kills her. So it's really a tragic story. And, Nancy, please don't make me listen to his laugh anymore. It is so sadistic. And throughout this entire interview, does that laugh just not get right under your skin? You just want to reach out and strangle him?

[Nancy Grace]

You know, I. I felt that when he starts laughing and we're talking about a double murder, and I guess it's over the years been airbrushed and edited and produced, but a murder scene, much less a double murder scene of this nature. It's really hard for me to describe having been to so many murder scenes. First of all, this is not a asphyxiation. This is a bloodletting in the front yard. There was so much blood, cops were sopping through it. There were bloody footprints, which, of course, matched up to his shoes everywhere. The victim's bodies had been lying out there for a period of time. She had essentially been decapitated. It was awful. It was a terrible, sticky, smelly, filthy murder scene with two young people dead. You know, I always believed Art Harris, and you know a lot more about this aspect than I do, that he was drugged out of his gourd that night, Nancy.

[Art Harris]

He had been doing probably cocaine or and had been drinking, as he often did, and he felt. He was enraged. This was such a rage killing. He could not have Nicole anymore. And so he probably snapped and did not want anyone else to have her either. She was his possession, as so many abusers feel about the women they beat and ultimately often kill. This is a man who does it and then justifies what he's done and goes home and takes a shower, as he says in part of this interview. And his friend, somebody gets rid of those bloody clothes, we never see again. So this is someone who killed his wonderful wife and got away with it because he had and could afford the best lawyers money can buy. I mean, the thing that got me, Nancy, is the blood. There was so much of it. So how did DNA not work? Well, as I write in my blog, arthairs.com, that's because they bored the jury to death with the probability of DNA, and they picked a jury that didn't have any math, high school math, or science. They knocked out anyone who, you know, who had any knowledge and could apply it to this bloody crime scene. And that's how he got off.

[Nancy Grace]

Listen to O.J. simpson talking about the night Nicole and Ron are murdered.

[O.J. Simpson]

In the book, the hypothetical is Charlie Paul, center Charlie. This guy Charlie shows up, the guy who I'd recently become friends with. And I don't know why he had been buying the Cole's house, but it told me you wouldn't believe what's going on over there. And I remember thinking, well, whatever's going on over there has got to stop.

[Ashley Wilcott]

Right.

[O.J. Simpson]

So we kind of hooked up together and you know, I'm kind of broad stroking this. We go over, get in the Bronco and go over.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Let's just go back and do the details. Where did you park?

[O.J. Simpson]

You park in the hypothetical, go in the alley.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Right. You park in the alley and you put on a wool cap and gloves.

[O.J. Simpson]

In the hypothetical, I put on cap and gloves.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Right. And you reached under the seat for

[O.J. Simpson]

a knife. I always kept a knife in the car for the crazies and stuff. Cuz you can't travel with a gun. And I remember Charlie saying, you ain't bringing that. And I didn't. Right. But I believe he took it.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Charlie took the knife.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah. In the book.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Yeah.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

So the back gate, you go through the back gate?

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

And it was open or broken or.

[O.J. Simpson]

I don't recall.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Okay.

[O.J. Simpson]

I go to the front and I'm looking to see what's going on. And I can see that it appears like Nicole had fl. I had candles all the time, she really did, to keep her overhead down, I think. And music was on. And while I was there, a guy shows up, you know, so Ron Goldman

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

comes in the back.

[O.J. Simpson]

A. Yeah, a guy I really didn't recognize. I may have seen him around, but I really didn't recognize him to be anyone. And. And I, in the mood I was in, I started having words with him.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

He says to you, I just came by to return a pair of glasses. Judy left them at the restaurant.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yeah. Words to that effect. Yes.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

And.

[O.J. Simpson]

And he was. I don't know if I bleed it or didn't believe it. It was pretty much immaterial because, you know, I was more concerned about everything that. Everything that was going on, you know, and was fed up with it, I guess.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

And you get into a fight. Nicole comes out verbal.

[O.J. Simpson]

A verbal. A verbal fight got a little loud and by that time Nicole had come out and we started having words about, who is this guy? Why is he here? What's going on?

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

And she says, this is my house, get the F out of here.

[O.J. Simpson]

Yes. And. Which I didn't like, because once again, this is the same person. And if you read the book, you'll see some things that happened in the two weeks leading up to this that were very, very irritating, you know, And I think Charlie had followed this guy in one make sure it was no problem. And he brought the knife as things got heated. I just remember the cold fell and hurt herself and this guy kind of got into a karate thing. And I said, well, you think you can kick my ass? And I remember I grabbed a knife. I do remember that portion. Taking a knife from Charlie. And to be honest, after that, I don't remember, except I'm standing there and there's all kind of stuff around and. And what kind of stuff, but stuff around.

[Nancy Grace (alternate or pre-recorded segment)]

It's been reported by espn. The Bills are considering honoring Simpson at the new stadium this spring. Don't do it. Don't do it. Their first game at Highmark stadium, set for Sept. 17 against the Lions. And we will be watching. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, crime story, signing off.

[Interviewer/Host (possibly Nancy Grace or a co-host)]

Goodbye.

[O.J. Simpson]

For me,

[Nancy Grace]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.