Drew Peterson: New Bid for Freedom?

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: Drew Peterson: New Bid for Freedom?

Date: October 11, 2025
Host: Nancy Grace
Guests:

• Joel Brodski (Drew Peterson’s former defense attorney)
• Cheryl McCollum (Cold Case Research Institute Director)
• Dr. Chloe Carmichael (Psychologist)
• Robin Walensky (WSB Investigative Reporter)

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Episode Overview

Nancy Grace and a panel of legal, investigative, and psychological experts dissect Drew Peterson's latest court bid to overturn his murder conviction and re-examine the chilling cases of both his missing fourth wife, Stacy Peterson, and his murdered third wife, Kathleen Savio. Through a critical analysis of Peterson's claims and new courtroom developments, the episode explores lingering questions of justice, psychological manipulation, and the failures that allowed Peterson to elude conviction for years.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Drew Peterson’s Latest Court Bid

• Main Issue: Peterson claims he needs a psychological evaluation as part of his attempt to overturn his murder conviction for Kathleen Savio.
  • “He was finally convicted in the murder of his third wife, Kathleen Savio. She was found dead, covered in bruises, head to toe, drowned in a bone dry bathtub. And he skated on that for years until her body had to be exhumed to put his sorry rear end behind bars.” – Nancy Grace (00:05)
  • Peterson alleges ineffective assistance of counsel and prosecutorial misconduct.
• Nancy’s Take: Grace is highly skeptical, calling Peterson a "perv" and “not mentally ill,” and suggests his appeal is a distraction from his crimes (06:23).

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2. Revisiting the Stacy Peterson Case

• Stacy, Peterson’s fourth wife, disappeared in 2007; her body has never been found.
• Peterson’s Narrative (from Dr. Phil interview): Stacy often asked for divorce, possibly tied to her menstrual cycle, and that they maintained a loving relationship till she vanished.
  • “She told me she wanted a divorce once a month.” – Drew Peterson (03:41)
  • “I have a lot of anger issues about it now that she took off like she did.” – Drew Peterson, on Stacy’s disappearance (04:57)
• Friend and Family Statements:
  • Stacy reportedly feared for her life and confided in family about Peterson’s threats.
  • Claims that Peterson was controlling, frequently checking up on Stacy.
• Contentious Allegations: Peterson denies any physical violence, dismisses claims by Stacy’s stepsister and brother-in-law as unreliable or fabricated (07:19–08:24).

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3. Analysis of Peterson’s Abuse and Control

• Robin Walensky’s Investigative Summary: All four of Peterson’s wives sought escape; at least two allege abuse or threats.
  • “He’s got a very, very long history of four wives, all who really wanted away from him.” – Robin Walensky (10:00)
  • Highlights the significant age difference—Stacy was 19 when she married a then 49-year-old Peterson (10:52).
• Cheryl McCollum and Dr. Chloe Carmichael on Abuse Patterns:
  • McCollum: “Every time she’s on her period, all she asked for is a divorce… she just wants to get the hell away from you.” (09:16)
  • Dr. Carmichael: “It’s very unusual for someone whose spouse is missing to suddenly just say that they’re angry with the person for leaving... The fact that he’s jumping to anger... I think it’s very unusual and somewhat suspicious.” (11:21)

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4. Spotlight on Evidence, Alibis, and Lies

• Blue Barrel Theory:
  • Peterson’s brother-in-law claims he helped move a heavy, warm blue barrel—suspected to contain Stacy’s body—on the night she disappeared.
  • Peterson denies this, calling the brother-in-law unreliable.
• Counterevidence: Video places Peterson and his brother-in-law together at Starbucks on the night of the disappearance, contradicting Peterson’s account (17:15–17:58).
• Plane Theory:
  • Investigators considered Peterson may have disposed of Stacy’s body by flying a barrel out to remote forested land (19:09).
  • Repeated searches never recovered Stacy’s remains.

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5. Legal Defense and Public Perception

• Joel Brodski (Defense Attorney):
  • Insists Peterson’s position was that he never committed domestic violence due to his police career risks.
  • Admits Peterson was controlling and trained in tactics that could inflict harm without leaving marks.
  • When confronted with contradictory evidence, Brodski concedes Peterson lied because he was unaware of certain evidence at the time (13:53–18:12).
  • “He was very controlling… he would monitor them electronically, follow them.” – Joel Brodski (16:38)
• Nancy Grace’s Response:
  • “He may be a two time stone cold killer, maybe more for all I know. But he is not mentally ill. The only illness he has is in his underwear.” (12:36)
  • Strongly challenges Brodski’s rationalizations and underscores patterns of abuse and manipulation.

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6. Ongoing Search for Stacy

• Funding for the search has run dry. Stacy's sister has launched a GoFundMe campaign to continue the effort.
• “She disappeared and has never been seen again. FYI, right now we know that money has run dry and Stacy’s sister has actually launched an effort to raise money on a GoFundMe site to continue the search for Stacy Peterson’s body.” (19:55)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Nancy Grace (On Peterson’s behavior in the courtroom):
  • “Peterson was wheeled into the courtroom… wearing glasses, trying to look pitiful, claiming he needs a psychological evaluation. I could have told you that on day one.” (00:05)
• Cheryl McCollum (On patterns of abuse):
  • “The devil takes many forms. And…the reality is a 19 year old girl was married to a 49 year old man and that was nothing about but control… There’s no doubt that every one of his four wives was abused in some way.” (15:59)
• Robin Walensky (On the barrel theory):
  • “She was super petite and could have fit in that barrel very easily… He had access to a small plane… one theory…he could have dropped the barrel into a forest area.” (19:09)
• Dr. Chloe Carmichael (On Peterson’s anger):
  • “It’s very unusual for someone whose spouse is missing to suddenly just say that they’re angry with the person for leaving…” (11:21)
• Nancy Grace (Observing the defense’s tactics):
  • “He’s basically saying, look over here at my defense attorney and the prosecutor. Don’t look at me and the two wives I’ve murdered. Yeah, don’t look there. Look here. Okay?” (06:23)
• Joel Brodski (Admitting to Peterson’s controlling nature):
  • “Drew was very controlling, very control. I mean, there’s no question.” (16:38)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:05: Nancy Grace opener; background on the Peterson murders and missing persons cases.
• 03:14–06:12: Drew Peterson’s Dr. Phil interview excerpts: denials, explanations, and demeanor.
• 09:16: Cheryl McCollum’s analysis of divorce pattern and abuse.
• 10:00: Robin Walensky details Peterson’s four wives and history of abuse.
• 11:21: Dr. Chloe Carmichael discusses psychological red flags and domestic violence.
• 13:53–18:12: Heated debate with defense attorney Joel Brodski over evidence, lies, and tactics.
• 19:09: Walensky summarizes theories and investigation details around Stacy’s disappearance.
• 21:06: Nancy Grace critiques Peterson’s latest court filing and psychological claims.

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Final Thoughts

Nancy Grace and her expert panel forcefully challenge Drew Peterson’s latest legal maneuvers and shine a light on the consistent patterns of abuse, control, and evasion in Peterson’s history. While Peterson attempts to refocus blame and cast doubt on the judicial process, the panel's consensus underscores both the overwhelming circumstantial evidence and the enduring pain of the victims’ families. The urgent call to continue the search for Stacy Peterson is a powerful reminder that justice, for some, is still unfinished.

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Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

This is an I heart podcast.

[Narrator/Host]

Crime.

[Nancy Grace]

Stories with Nancy Grace. Well, it's Friday night and it is special. A cop that murders at least two wives. Wow. And gets away with it for years and years and years. Of course, I'm talking about the sleazebag Drew Peterson. In the last an update in the Drew Peterson case. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Guys, you do know Stacy Peterson. Wife number four's body has never been found. He was finally convicted in the murder of his third wife, Kathleen Savio. She was found dead, covered in bruises, head to toe, drowned in a bone dry bathtub. And he skated on that for years until her body had to be exhumed to put his sorry rear end behind bars. Okay, get this. Peterson was wheeled into the courtroom and wearing glasses, trying to look pitiful, claiming he needs a psychological evaluation. I could have told you that on day one. Because he's a perv, not because he has any mental illness. Trust me on that. This is in his bid to overturn his conviction for murder one of third wife Kathleen Savio. Okay, rewind what happened in that case, and trust me, he's sick, all right. But it does not rise to a mental illness.

[Narrator/Host]

A police officer that married and divorced three times, his fourth wife now missing, seemingly leaving behind her home and her children without a trace. That's odd, isn't it? Still no resolution in the missing person report of Stacy Peterson. With me right now, Drew Peterson's defense lawyer, Joel Brodski, Cold Case Research institute director Cheryl McCollum, New York psychologist Dr. Chloe Carmichael, and WSB reporter, radio Robin Wolinsky. Let's just kick it off with Drew Peterson in his own words. Now, Stacy Peterson goes missing. According to those close to her, she desperately wanted a divorce. And at the time, she knew his third wife, Kathleen Savio, was murdered by Drew Peterson. Nobody else knew that. Listen to what Drew Peterson tells Dr. Phil.

[Interviewer (Dr. Phil)]

Well, there have been many allegations that have been made against Drew regarding Stacy and allegation, accusation, whatever you want to call it. Now, you know, we don't know if Stacy made these claims, but I have a graphic here with some of them. First, Stacy's family says Stacy told Drew she wanted a divorce shortly before she disappeared. Is that true?

[Drew Peterson]

No. She told me she wanted a divorce. And I hate saying this, but the reality of it. She told me she wanted a divorce once a month.

[Interviewer (Dr. Phil)]

So you're saying it. It varied with her menstrual cycle?

[Drew Peterson]

Very much so. And I'm not Trying to be disrespectful. I've been saying that, but that was a reality.

[Interviewer (Dr. Phil)]

There is an allegation or an accusation that Stacy told a neighbor if anything happened to her, it was not an accident, that Drew had killed her. Do you think that she actually said that to a neighbor?

[Drew Peterson]

I really have to question the credibility of the neighbor because Stacy and I still, even with her difficulties, we still had a very romantic relationship. We still were together a lot. We still spent time cuddling, that type of thing, so.

[Interviewer (Dr. Phil)]

But Drew, if you had a romantic relationship, if you were still intimate and affectionate and together with one one another, how could she disappear and you not dismantle the world looking for her?

[Drew Peterson]

I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I think I've done all that I can do and all I have the.

[Interviewer (Dr. Phil)]

Resources available to do, but that defies common sense. I mean, if, if, if you were in love with this woman, were you in love with her when she disappeared?

[Drew Peterson]

Yes, very much so.

[Interviewer (Dr. Phil)]

Are you in love with her today?

[Drew Peterson]

I try to be, but it's. I'm having. I have a lot of anger issues about it now that she took off like she did.

[Interviewer (Dr. Phil)]

She also said that, and I believe it's the same neighbor. You probably know better than I that you always called and checked on Stacy, that you were very attentive and in fact, it got to the point of being controlling, but that you were always calling to check up on her.

[Drew Peterson]

We were always calling each other, yeah. So I don't think it was a one way thing. And I was trying, Wasn't trying to be controlling. When you have a real romantic relationship with somebody, you're calling them all the time.

[Interviewer (Dr. Phil)]

So it's also been alleged that Stacy told her sister that she feared for her life. Do you believe she said that to her sister?

[Drew Peterson]

Again, I don't know. And if she was trying to set me up for some sort of divorce or anything that might have been a way to do it.

[Interviewer (Dr. Phil)]

In that you did have a pattern of calling each other all the time. Why did you not call her the day she disappeared?

[Drew Peterson]

I did, but she. There was. She wanted her space. She wanted her space. So that day I gave her her space.

[Interviewer (Dr. Phil)]

Because there are those obviously that say you called her because you didn't call her, because you knew she couldn't answer. But you're saying you didn't call her because you were giving her space.

[Drew Peterson]

Correct.

[Narrator/Host]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

[Nancy Grace]

Drew Peterson's bid to overturn his conviction for murder one also threw into the stu. Ineffective legal counsel. He also claims prosecutorial misconduct occurred in the case. He's basically saying, look over here at my defense attorney and the prosecutor. Don't look at me and the two wives I've murdered. Yeah, don't look there. Look here. Okay? This guy is not mentally ill. And if he has deteriorated behind bars as he thinks about. Has nightmares about all the women he's murdered, that does not mean he was insane at the time. Of the two, excuse me, one murder.

[Narrator/Host]

Listen to what Drew Peterson tells Dr. Phil.

[Interviewer (Dr. Phil)]

Did you ever get physical with her? Did you ever attack her? Did you ever have a physical fight?

[Drew Peterson]

There was a physical confrontation where I cornered her in the kitchen one time and she hit me in the head with a frozen steak. But I didn't retaliate or anything because.

[Interviewer (Dr. Phil)]

Her stepsister says that you threw Stacy down the stairs, knocked her into the TV and threw her across the room.

[Drew Peterson]

That never happened.

[Interviewer (Dr. Phil)]

It's never happened.

[Drew Peterson]

Never happened.

[Interviewer (Dr. Phil)]

Why? Why are these people saying these things?

[Drew Peterson]

I don't know. Unless they're trying to add some sort of fuel to the fire.

[Interviewer (Dr. Phil)]

You know what your stepbrother has said, right? That he says that he helped you move a blue barrel that was warm to the touch. He told friends that he thought after the fact that he actually helped you move her body.

[Drew Peterson]

That didn't happen.

[Interviewer (Dr. Phil)]

Was there a blue barrel?

[Drew Peterson]

No.

[Interviewer (Dr. Phil)]

Did he come over and help you do anything, move anything, do anything?

[Drew Peterson]

Never. The day I was with him the day before, and I was attempting to get him a job at a grocery store, he had just lost his job, and he was so intoxicated or high on something that I had to cancel the interview, and we couldn't follow through with it.

[Interviewer (Dr. Phil)]

So he's not a reliable guy?

[Drew Peterson]

I would say no.

[Interviewer (Dr. Phil)]

Well, the phone records show that you were near the Chicago Sanitary and Ship Channel the day she went missing. Were you there?

[Drew Peterson]

Yes, I was driving through that area.

[Interviewer (Dr. Phil)]

What were you doing there?

[Drew Peterson]

I was looking for. In a couple spots, I thought that she might be. I was looking for my car. Yeah, that she was driving.

[Narrator/Host]

You just heard Drew PETERSON Talking to Dr. Phil, our friend, regarding a lot of points that are not lost on prosecutors. My first point would be Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Every time I would try somebody for murder, or for anything for that matter, for the defense attorneys would say, oh, she's just mean because she's on her period. I mean, you know, it doesn't matter what you're doing. It's because you're on your period. That that's always what men claim. Why is that?

[Cheryl McCollum]

Here's what's interesting to me, though. Every time she's on her period, all she asked for is a divorce. She's not crying, not fighting with him. She just wants to get the hell away from you. So that, to me would be a pattern that he would need to look at, that it's not because of her period. She wants away from you, you know.

[Narrator/Host]

To Robin Wolinsky. Joining me, WSB investigative reporter Robin Walensky. The claims that she wanted a divorce are overwhelming, but we also know that at the time she goes missing, she had been boxing up Drew Peterson's possessions to kick him out and stacking them up in the garage. Robin?

[Robin Walensky]

Yeah, Nancy, she totally wanted out of this marriage. He's got a very, very long history of four wives, all who had their period, all who really wanted away from him. His first wife, Carol, was married six years. She claimed he was a cheater. They got divorced. Then there was Vicki, who said that he was abusing her and threatening her. Allegations, of course. And she told police, you know, after Stacy disappeared, that Peterson threatened to kill her and make it look like an accident. And, oh, then there Kathleen, who he was married to for 11 years, who mysteriously dies in a dry bathtub. I was there, by the way, the day they dug her up at the cemetery. And then, of course, there's Stacy, who was only 19 and Drew was what, 49? And she wanted far away from him, period or not.

[Narrator/Host]

It broke my heart speaking to Vicki and her daughter learning about life with Drew Peterson. But that's a whole nother can of worms. Dr. Chloe Carmichael, New York psychologist, joining me, founder of anxiety tools.com Dr. Chloe isn't it true, statistically, when women that have been abused try to leave the relationship or get pregnant, that's the highest incidence of their murders?

[Nancy Grace]

Yes, Nancy, of course that's absolutely true, because what that does is it provokes anger on the part of the person that they're attempting to leave, which is why I actually think it's very interesting that this gentleman said that he was actually very angry with her. He said that he was angry because she left, which may have even been what she was planning to do. But of course, we don't know that she left. And really neither does he. And so it's very unusual for someone whose spouse is missing to suddenly just say that they're angry with the person for leaving, because anger puts more distance between us. And when you genuinely miss your spouse and didn't want them gone it's actually difficult to even connect with any feelings of anger, even if they're appropriate. So the fact that he's jumping to anger with her in the case of someone who is at best case missing, I think it's very unusual and somewhat suspicious.

[Narrator/Host]

Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

[Nancy Grace]

In the last days. Convicted killer Drew Peterson is back in a Will county courtroom having himself rolled in. In a wheelchair. Okay. Wearing glasses.

[Robin Walensky]

Mmm.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay. Claiming he needs psychological evaluation. He may be a sex addict, but that does not rise to a mental illness. He may be a two time stone cold killer, maybe more for all I know. But he is not mentally ill. The only illness he has is in his underwear. Okay. Now this is what happened with me right now.

[Narrator/Host]

You know his name very well. Renowned Chicago defense attorney Joel Brodski. Let's just say this isn't our first time in the boxing ring. Joel Brodski defending Drew Peterson at trial? No, his longtime defender, Joel Brodski. Well, now, hold a minute. I've seen many a photo of Drew Peterson, and for him to say the only physical incident they ever had was when she, Stacy, hit him in the head with a frozen steak. How'd she do that? Stand on a ladder? He towers over her.

[Joel Brodski]

Yeah, I mean, he, he would. That was his position, was he never was physically violent with any of his wives. And he would always. His excuse always was that, well, if. If I, as a police officer committed domestic battery, I lose my job, so I would never do that. But, you know, Drew was a, you know, trained swat, trained army officer. You know, if he wanted to resort to violence, he could, you know, do it in a way that wouldn't leave marks. He was an expert at that, you know, from the. All the training in the department and the army that he had. You know, I know that there was. With Kathy, I know that there was evidence of some physical altercations. Nothing, you know.

[Narrator/Host]

Well, you sure know how to put perfume on the pig. What do you mean by physical altercations? With Kathleen Soda, later found dead, drowned in a dry bathtub. What do you mean, physical altercation? You mean he beat her up?

[Joel Brodski]

No, they had a fight that was on. Actually, was on videotape. Stacy actually taped it. You know, Kathy was very, you know, very. I went five aces. I mean, she wouldn't back down from anything. So they, they went at it. But Drew was obviously so much physically stronger. He pinned her to the ground. And then the police came and charged them both with. With battery, kind of cross charges, but, you know, there was no evidence of him ever Bite breaking bones or causing bloody noses or anything like that.

[Narrator/Host]

Okay, well, wait, hold on just a moment. Cheryl McCollum, have I lost my mind? I mean, Cheryl, you know that for nine years I volunteered at the Battered Women's center at night when I was prosecuting. Do you hear Joel Brodsky still defending Drew Peterson? He says, well, there was never a broken bone, but oh yeah, he pinned her to the ground. That was caught on video. Hello. It'll be a cold day in H E double L. My husband pins me to the ground and the police are not called. Okay, that ain't gonna happen. Cheryl, what happened? I feel like I went down the rabbit hole.

[Cheryl McCollum]

Here's the deal. The devil takes many forms. And the, the reality is a 19 year old girl was married to a 49 year old man and that was nothing about but control. And he abused his money with her, his emotions with her, his sex with her, his physical being with her. There's no doubt that every one of his four wives was abused in some way. Drew was not about to let anybody get his money. Well, yeah, they weren't going to touch his retirement.

[Narrator/Host]

Okay, jump in, Joel.

[Joel Brodski]

Drew was very controlling, Very control. I mean, there's no question he was very controlling of all his wives. They all said that he would monitor them electronically, follow them.

[Narrator/Host]

You mean the GPS tracker I've got on my husband is wrong? Just kidding. Okay, that's not true. Why did I say that? Joel Broski, what is the defense for Drew Peterson? His wife Stacy just goes missing. And another thing that he said, we just heard him tell Dr. Phil was the brother in law was a drinker. He was this. He was. That. That didn't happen. He didn't help him get rid of Stacy's body in a blue cooler, but they were caught on video together that night driving through a Starbucks. So the night Stacy goes miss. So how can he say they weren't together? I've watched the video.

[Joel Brodski]

Yeah, the video. I don't, don't think that was before he gave that interview, before any charges had been brought. So we never, he had never seen the video at that point. He didn't know they had that evidence.

[Narrator/Host]

Joel, you know what, you should consider professional dancing because you just danced around. I'm going to call Dancing with the Stars. You need to be there, buddy. Joel, I didn't ask you. Did the Starbucks video come to light after his statement to Dr. Phil? You're just saying. Yeah, he lied because he didn't know about the video. That's what you're saying.

[Joel Brodski]

I mean, he obviously lied because he didn't know he was, he had been caught. You know, if you knew about the video, he would have altered the story.

[Narrator/Host]

In some way, I'm sure made up a different lie. Jewel, how do you stand yourself?

[Cheryl McCollum]

Help me out.

[Joel Brodski]

I'm trying not to use such direct language, but, yeah, I'm sure he wouldn't have said that if he knew that there was evidence to the contrary. But, you know, Drew was building was, you know, making us trying to tell a consistent story about what happened to Stacey. To keep with that his position that she ran away, that was his, his story from day one, that she ran off with some other guy.

[Narrator/Host]

That's true, Joel. He's never wavered in his story. Robin Walensky, wsb. Let's start at the beginning. We know she married him when she's 19. He's 40 something. What happened around the time of Stacy's disappearance? As of right now, today, she has never been seen again. The theory of Drew Peterson and his lawyer with us right now, high profile lawyer out of Chicago, Joel Broski, is that she took off to be with her boyfriend. So what happened? Tell me the events around her disappearance, Robin.

[Robin Walensky]

She was, she was very angry. She wanted out of the marriage. And, you know, the one thing we have not mentioned so far, Nancy, is the fact that she was so Stacy was super petite and she could have fit in that barrel very easily. And there were reports at the time when I was out in Bolingbrook that he had access to a small plane. And there was one theory that the Bolingbroke police and detectives were working on at the time, that he had flown the plane and that he could have dropped the barrel into a forest area. And there were many searches at the time looking for that barrel. It had never been found in the forest, never been found in any body of water. But she clearly, Nancy, could have fit in that barrel. They had a very tumultuous relationship. She wanted out. And the next thing you know, she disappeared.

[Narrator/Host]

She disappeared and has never been seen again. FYI, right now we know that money has run dry and Stacy's sister has actually launched an effort to raise money on a GoFundMe site to continue the search for Stacy Peterson's body. Her sister also, like me, believes that Stacy is dead. She go to gofundme and look for Help me bring Stacy Peterson home. Help me bring Stacey PETERSON Home at GoFundMe. Now, what we do know now, Joel Broski, his defense lawyer, is not going to admit to this former, former Is that his brother in law, apparent from one of his other marriages, showed up, was called over to Peterson's home that night and helped him carry a very heavy blue cooler out that warm to the touch. And to this day, that brother in law, who later tried to commit suicide, says he thinks he unwittingly helped dispose of Stacy's body. Her disappearance and or death still unresolved.

[Nancy Grace]

Drew Peterson's bid to overturn his conviction for murder one in his court filing claims Peterson is incapable of relaying his allegations of constitutional deprivations. Probably because there were no constitutional deprivations. That is why he is incapable of relaying them. Ugh. He can't explain them quote, to his legal team in a manner that would allow them to, quote, adequately and ethically submit claims because there are no claims. Have you thought of that? Now, according to this appeal, the defense attorney believes a former judge who found no doubt as to Peterson's mental fitness was, quote, clearly in error. Right. I guess you want the judge to believe you and not his or her lying eyes. Now the lawyers are spending our tax money, by the way, to seek a, quote, more specialized psychological expert to evaluate Peterson. Okay, good luck with that. I just want to remind you his wife, Stacy Peterson, who was just 23 at the time she vanished, has never been found. And he hasn't been tried for that. You know, it just never ends with this guy. We wait as justice unfolds. Good night, friend.

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[Narrator/Host]

This is an Iheart podcast.