EMMA BAUM, PREGNANT WHEN SHE WENT MISSING, FAMILY'S DESPERATE PLEA: WHERE'S EMMA?

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode Title: EMMA BAUM, PREGNANT WHEN SHE WENT MISSING, FAMILY'S DESPERATE PLEA: WHERE'S EMMA?
Original Air Date: November 23, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace centers on the mysterious disappearance of 25-year-old Emma Baum from Gary, Indiana. Emma, nine months pregnant at the time she vanished, is the focus of her family's desperate search amid feelings of frustration with local law enforcement. Nancy Grace amplifies the family's plea, unpacks the circumstances of Emma’s disappearance, and brings together investigative experts and legal commentators to propose ways forward.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Emma Baum’s Background and Disappearance

• Emma Baum, 25, was nine months pregnant and reportedly dilated at 1 cm when she went missing (03:05, 05:09).
• Last seen near 25th Avenue and Connecticut Street in Gary, Indiana (07:23).
• Described as creative, energetic, a “girly girl” with a penchant for wigs and fashion (03:43).
• Mother of three children with another on the way; deeply connected to her large family (06:01, 29:16).
• Disappearance occurred after visiting the home of her boyfriend, Antoine Butler, the bio-dad (50:26).

2. Families' Emotional Plea and Independent Search

• Emma’s mother, Jamie Baum, and sisters Abby and Paige, detail days spent physically searching—knocking on doors, stopping drivers, entering abandoned buildings (03:23, 30:46, 31:14).
• The family is conducting their own search efforts due to dissatisfaction with the official police search (32:08).
• Jamie: “We’ve been out every day, all day, 24/7…holding our sign up to every window like a desert to find her.” (30:46)
• Family expresses frustration, emotional exhaustion, and a sense of abandonment—not only by the police but, as father Jason (an Iraq war vet) confesses, by the “country he fought for” (19:57, 20:41).

3. Investigation Challenges & Law Enforcement Relations

• Multiple abandoned homes in the Gary area complicate the search, presenting dangers and hiding places (06:51, 12:24).
• Gary’s high violent crime rate and urban decay worsen search conditions (27:18, 28:07).
• The family accuses Gary PD of apathy—in one alarming incident, a police officer told Jamie, “if she’s dead in a dumpster, you’ll never find her.” (36:04)
• Law enforcement has exhausted three primary locations with canines and is reviewing area surveillance, but has not located Emma (21:20).
• Case transferred to Lake County Homicide, bringing renewed hope for the family (34:44).

4. The Cell Phone Clue

• Emma had a prepaid Boost Mobile phone, out of minutes, but could still be pinged via cell towers according to expert Brian Fitzgibbons (16:32, 17:22, 17:50, 19:16).
• Last known message at 5:32 p.m., then silence—no social media, no contact, phone missing (14:24).
• Abby maintains Emma was “more responsible than that” and would never go off-grid—even during pregnancy (18:15, 18:34).

5. Examination of Boyfriend’s Account

• Emma’s last known location was at her boyfriend’s (Antoine Butler) home (50:26).
• Butler claimed he saw her “leave with some girl in a car,” offering no details; he and his family have not participated in search efforts (47:19, 47:30).
• Butler previously discouraged the pregnancy, asking Emma to get an abortion (50:50).
• Legal expert Greg Morse criticizes the vague, non-credible statement by Butler: “These types of general statements... police generally look at that as suspect. They’re not credible.” (48:20)

6. Case Context and Theories

• Nancy invokes parallels to other missing-person cases involving vulnerable women and risk factors near expressways and abandoned homes (07:41, 11:27, 13:25).
• Experts urge grid searches, canvassing of abandoned buildings, and leveraging cell data, surveillance, and community tips (13:55, 21:20, 33:01).
• Wild, sensational theories abound, but Nancy and panelists stress harm of such conjecture and focus on the facts (44:33).

7. Critical Commentary on Law Enforcement and Community Response

• The family shares direct quotes illustrating the lack of empathy and urgency from Gary PD; transfer to homicide division improves morale (36:04, 36:49).
• Commentary on systemic neglect toward low-income, high-crime areas and the resulting lack of media coverage and resources (33:01, 34:24).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Family’s Emotional Testimony

• Jamie Baum (mother, 03:23):
  “I would like my daughter home. We miss her. Her babies need her. Her family needs her…we need her home.”
• Paige Baum (sister, 31:14):
  “We’ve been searching every day. We haven’t found any answers, but we’re gonna keep trying it.”

Law Enforcement Frustration

• Jamie Baum (mother, 36:04):
  “He told my daughter that if she was gone, she would not be found. And that hurt my family.”
• Nancy Grace (41:11):
  “…you don’t say that to a victim’s family…you take the information and you review it, you study it and determine if it is or is not relevant. But to say that…when they are the ones out looking in abandoned homes…digging through fields…out in the street asking drivers to help them…”

Dangers of the Area / Missing Women Statistic

• Nancy Grace (21:39):
  “The number one cause of death among pregnant women in the US is homicide…when I heard that…It’s true.”

On Unhelpful Statements from Boyfriend

• Greg Morse (48:20):
  “Police generally look at that as suspect. They’re not credible…”
• Nancy Grace (49:04):
  “My fiancé Keith was murdered decades ago; I can remember right now what he was wearing…It’s branded on my brain.”

Family’s Last Words to Emma

• Jamie Baum (54:53):
  “Watch your home. We miss you, researching for you. We will not stop until we find you. I love you. Everybody loves you. We’ll find you again.”

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Timeline of Important Segments

• [03:05] Nancy Grace introduces Emma’s disappearance; Jamie Baum’s plea
• [05:09] Emma’s pregnancy status confirmed; deep dive into her health and circumstances
• [06:51] Area description; abandoned buildings; potential connection to highways
• [07:41] Case comparison with other interstate abductions discussed
• [11:27] Dangers of abandoned homes; need for grid search
• [14:24] Emma’s cell phone details—last contact and theorized phone status
• [19:57] Father’s emotional struggle highlighted; family’s despair
• [21:20] Search efforts from police and volunteers; canine and video searches
• [27:18] Crime rates and context in Gary, Indiana
• [30:46] Family’s door-to-door and on-foot search efforts
• [32:08] Family taking investigation into their own hands due to lack of police engagement
• [36:04] Shocking police response: “if she’s dead in a dumpster, you’ll never find her.”
• [41:11] Legal and investigative experts’ critique of law enforcement’s demeanor
• [47:19] Boyfriend’s lack of details and involvement dissected
• [50:50] Discussion on boyfriend’s objection to pregnancy and implications
• [54:53] Jamie’s final message to Emma; tip line information

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Action Items & Resources

• Tip lines for information about Emma Baum's whereabouts:
  • Detective Gordon, Lake County Homicide: 219-755-3855
  • National tip line: 1-800-883-5587
• Descriptions: Emma is about 5’3”, 136lbs, 9 months pregnant, brown (often styled/wigged) hair, brown eyes, notable sunrise tattoo on neck/collarbone.
• Podcast call-to-action: Urgent appeals for listeners in or around Gary, Indiana to be vigilant, check abandoned properties, and contact authorities or the family with information.

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Closing Thoughts

This episode encapsulates both the urgency of the search for Emma Baum and the heartbreak felt by her family. The discussion reflects broader social issues: the vulnerability of pregnant women, systemic failures in law enforcement response, and the perseverance of families in the face of tragedy. Nancy Grace and her panel make a passionate call for renewed public focus and actionable tips.

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Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

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[Nancy Grace]

Stories with Nancy Grace. A pregnant mom, just 25 years old, missing. Tonight, the family's desperate plea. Where's Emma? I'm Nancy Grace. This is CRIME stories. Thank you for being with us.

[Jamie Baum]

I'm Emma Baum's mother. I would like my daughter home. We miss her. Her babies need her. Her family needs her. And if anybody knows anything or can help search for her, could you please help us? We need her home.

[Nancy Grace]

That is Emma Baum's mother. A desperate plea to bring Emma home. Emma, nine months pregnant, dilated to 1cm to our knowledge that from our friends at ABC7. Joining me right now, an all star panel. But first, I want to go to Emma's mother, Jamie Baum. Jamie, thank you for being with us. Also with Jamie is Emma's father, Jason Waddell and sister Abby. To all of you, thank you for being with us. I've just learned about Emma's disappearance. I'm very curious. I know that she's been gone several weeks at this point, but the first thing I want to do, Jamie, is get her photo out there. Emma, gorgeous, stunning inside and out. A real girly girl. She loved putting on makeup and dressing up. She loved different styles, wearing wigs, just everything fashion. Now at nine months pregnant, seemingly has vanished. Straight back out to Jamie Bom. First of all, tell me about the pregnancy. Is it correct that she was at 1cm when she goes missing?

[Jamie Baum]

Yes, she was. Yes, she was.

[Nancy Grace]

Tell me about her pregnancy. Has it been a difficult pregnancy? Has it been high risk? What can you tell me? Because I'm trying to imagine, is she in some hospital somewhere? Has she had the baby? What is behind all of this? How do you just vanish? At nine months pregnant, I could hardly walk. At six months pregnant with twins. So how does a pregnant young, she's just 25, a young woman just seemingly disappear? Tell me about her pregnancy.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

She is.

[Jamie Baum]

She's had a good pregnancy. She was just dilated when she went. We tried to have her stay home, but she ended up going out.

[Nancy Grace]

Right now her children want to know where's Amami? Again, joining me in all star panel to make sense of what we know right now.

[Jamie Baum]

But listen, we've all gathered here today because we are looking for my sister. She was 1cm dilated on October 4. She has been missing since October 10. My sister is beautiful. She's energetic. She reaches for the sky just like a sunflower, which is her favorite.

[Nancy Grace]

You're seeing that from our friends at ABC7. Joining me in addition To Emma's mother Jamie, father Jason and sister Abby. Lisette Guillen is joining us, host of Case Files Chicago. And you can find her at Case Files Chicago. Lisette, thank you for being with us. Lisette, tell me about the area from which she goes missing. This is Gary, Indiana. Is it in the city? Is it the metropolitan area around the city?

[Lisette Guillen]

This is in the city, Nancy. It's, it's in a more dilapidated area. We're talking about 25th block of Connecticut street, which there are a lot of empty buildings around. There's a lot of empty land and wooded area there. So it is, you know, part of the city. One of the concerns is also very near our expressways here. And of course we're known as the crossroads of America in this area. So, you know, the thought of maybe her, you know, being even gone on that highway is actually a concern too.

[Nancy Grace]

You're absolutely correct. Listen to this.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Emma Baum was last seen near 25th Avenue and Connecticut street about 2 miles directly south of downtown Gary, Indiana. It's been described as a dismal and desolate area. Baum was visiting a home in the neighborhood. Her friends and family have been there scouring abandoned homes looking for her and for clues into her disappearance.

[Nancy Grace]

Joining me in addition to the family and Lisette Guillen, Brian Fitzgibbons is with US Director Operations, USPA Nationwide Security, leading a team of investigators specializing in finding missing people. You can find [e-mail] Brian, thank you for being with us. I've got all sorts of thoughts colliding in my head regarding the disappearance of 25 year old, nine month pregnant Emma Baum. Number one, a case I'm sure you're very familiar with and that is the case of Shasta and Dylan Groni who go missing out of Coeur d', Alene, Idaho. Why? What does that have to do with Emma's disappearance? If you could. Control room, please show me that map again. If you look down at an aerial off Coeur d', Alene, you see nothing but green, densely wooded trees. That's all you see. Running through that very rural area, heavily forested, is an interstate. What happened to these two children? A guy, a perv, driving down the interstate gets a glimpse of Shasta Groenee, about 11 years old. And little brother Dylan gets a glimpse through the trees of them at an above ground pool. He goes and lies in wait, kills the whole family to abduct the children, ultimately killing Dylan as well. Shasta lived after our program broadcast the photos, a Woman in a convenience store spotted Shasta with her attacker and call the tip line. Okay. The significance of that interstate cannot be emphasized. Enough. Explain, Brian.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

To have a main thoroughfare like that so close to where Emma was last seen is very concerning because she could move at a high rate of speed to get away from that area. And complicating factor even further is the phone that she was holding at the time did not have a service and connected. So even though it's still a whole.

[Nancy Grace]

Nother can of worms, the cell phone issue. But Brian, just think about it. 60 miles an hour. If she was in a vehicle, that's how quickly she'd be gone. At 1cm dilated just before her disappearance. Look at Emma. 5, 3, 136lbs, 9 months pregnant, Brown hair, light brown hair, blondish hair. And eyes. Brown eyes. Tattoos. You see one right there. Now, she loves to dress up and wear different colored wigs. That's just her. What is she wearing right now? We cannot project that there. You see her in other shots, you may see her with short, light brown hair. Just look at her face. If I could show her face again. And specifically, specifically, I want to see a shot of that tattoo along her neck and collarbone. Because regardless of how she's got her hair done, that is something that will not change. To Jamie, this is Emma's mom. What is that? There she is with the brown hair with a brown wig. Jamie, what is the tattoo? It looks like a sunrise.

[Lisette Guillen]

It looks.

[Jamie Baum]

It is. Yes, it is a sunrise.

[Nancy Grace]

Emma is a natural brunette, but often has her hair like this. Now, the other case I want to bring up to you, Brian Fitzgibbons. We just heard Lisette Guillen joining us from Case Files Chicago, talking about multiple abandoned homes in the area where she was last visiting friends in that neighborhood. There are some abandoned homes. And it brings to mind a case that I covered extensively. The disappearance of Aliana DeFreez, a schoolgirl on her way to school, ultimately found she had been tortured. She was killed in an abandoned home. Brian Fitzgibbons, Police must go through every single single abandoned home in that area. Explain the danger.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

There's a lot of inherent danger there. First of all, Gary, Indiana is a dangerous place with all these abandoned homes. Nancy, you complicate search efforts, particularly for volunteers. Police need to get on the ground there in that vicinity of 25th in Connecticut and start searching some of those abandoned properties immediately.

[Nancy Grace]

How do you go about doing that? I mean, this is your expertise. You don't just drive by for Pete's sake. The problem I see with an abandoned home is that a victim can be taken in there. They can be raped, they can be murdered, they can be held hostage and no one's going in and out. People stay away from abandoned homes. Who wants to get near it? You don't know what's in there. They're deemed unsafe. So people can be in there and nobody knows.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Yeah. The city should have access to these abandoned properties without needing a search warrant. In many cases, they will indeed have that access. So I don't see that being an issue in this case.

[Nancy Grace]

Another case that is startlingly similar is that of a young mom, a Memphis mom, Eliza Fletcher, out minding her own business. Eliza was jogging. Here we have Emma innocently visiting a friend and she goes missing. Eliza goes missing. She was found in an abandoned home that no one thought to look in. I would advise some sort of a grid search at this point. Brian Fitzgibbons. A grid search of this entire area?

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Absolutely. And it's, listen, it's a. There are quite a few abandoned homes in that vicinity, but this is not a massive area around the place that she was last seen. And we have to think if something did happen to her, she would have had to been moved very close by, that she wouldn't have been moved too far away.

[Nancy Grace]

To Abby Smith joining me, this is Emma's sister along with mom, Jamie, Abby. Tell me about the phone, the phone that Emma had.

[Jamie Baum]

Emma used a lot of the WI fi data, so she should be able to connect to some sort of cell tower or some sort of area where we'd be able to determine whether or not that phone was moved. I thought her last message was at 5:32pm and then she's just gone completely blank. We haven't had any contact. No one has said any thing. We haven't come up. No Facebook, no Snapchat, no like no anything. And we have not found the phone.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, hold on. Right there, right there. Hold on, hold on. I've got to dissect everything you're saying. Abby is Emma's sister. Guys, please help us. Please help us. The family contacted me. We read about the case online. I have seen no other media coverage of Emma's case. The family is desperate tonight joining together, the dad, the mom, the sister begging for help, begging for your help. I want to give you a couple of numbers right now. Here is a toll free number. It's 1-800- you tell us. 1-800-883-5587. Repeat 1-800-883-558-7. You can remain anonymous. You can remain anonymous. 1, 800, you tell us. 883-5587. Or there's detective work. A detective working the case out of Lake County Homicide. Detective Gordon. 2197-5538-5521-9755. The mom and dad desperate, desperate for help. They have been out searching. They have been out putting up flyers. Won't you help us help them? To Sister Abby. I want to understand a little bit more about her cell phone. Now, was this a prepaid phone? You said she was using WI fi. Was she out of minutes? Help me understand what's happening.

[Jamie Baum]

She was going to turn it on. I believe she was using the phone company. Was it the boost? I think so. Boost. So, like, it's one of the prepaid phones. She had no minutes. So she did actively use the WI fi. She would connect anywhere she could. Could. So she could keep in contact with everybody.

[Nancy Grace]

Hold on just a second. Abby, you cut out on me. Would you. Would you just start that over, please? I need to hear every word. Was she using a prepaid phone?

[Jamie Baum]

Yes, through Boost Mobile.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay. Prepaid phone. Boost Mobile. Had she run out of minutes?

[Jamie Baum]

Yes, ma'.

[Jacob Goldstein]

Am.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, so let me understand, Brian Fitzgibbons. I don't have a prepaid phone. Explain to me how that works. Quickly.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Whether your phone has minutes or not, it's still communicating to cell phone towers. Anybody who has an old phone knows you can still make an emergency call from it. It's not sending as much information. It's not going to be as precise. But that phone would have still been communicating with cell phone towers.

[Nancy Grace]

Urgent. Are you telling me, Brian, that even though she was out of minutes, her phone could still be pinged?

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

That is correct, Nancy.

[Nancy Grace]

That's what I was getting at. I'm sorry to cut you off, Abby, but that's what I'm trying to find out. To hay with the prepaid minutes and the blah and the blah, blah. I want to get a ping. I want a ping on this phone. So do you believe Abby, she had simply run out of minutes. Was the phone cut off or was the phone dead out of battery? Because the prepaid aspect is irrelevant according to Fitzgibbons.

[Jamie Baum]

Well, like you said, she was a girly girl, so she would not have a dead phone. It just isn't like her to walk around without a cell phone, especially being as pregnant as she was. It makes no sense why she would not have it respons than that. Yes. Way more responsible than that.

[Nancy Grace]

When you say she Was very responsible to mom. Jamie. Bomb. What do you mean she was more responsible than that?

[Jamie Baum]

She just was honest. She wouldn't have not called any of us. We talked to her daily. She has a huge family and we all stay connected all the time.

[Nancy Grace]

Very responsible. A great moment. Pregnant, nine months. Brian, I just want to nail something down. Okay, so if she had her phone with her and she, like most of us, is very careful about keeping it charged, it doesn't matter. Brian, if she had run out of minutes, Is that correct?

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

That's correct. It changes things a bit because it's not communicating with the towers as much as a phone that has service. So on your phone that has service, you might have 100 different applications that are communicating out to the Internet and through the tower. All right? When that service is off, you only have that emergency beacon and GPS and the ability to make a call to the cell phone company.

[Nancy Grace]

Back to sister Abby joining us. Abby. My control room just came into my ear and told me that Emma's father Jason actually had to walk out of the room. What happened?

[Jamie Baum]

It's a lot. Emotionally. This is one of the hardest things our family has ever dealt with. And I, I wouldn't say he wants to admit that he feels broken or unable to do anything to help. You can't return and it's. This is breaking. It's breaking everybody. He's broken.

[Nancy Grace]

Isn't your dad a war vet?

[Jamie Baum]

Yes. Yes.

[Nancy Grace]

What war was he in?

[Jamie Baum]

Iraq. Iraq.

[Nancy Grace]

So this is a man that's faced the enemy far from home and fought bravely and he cannot talk about Emma's disappearance. What has this done to him? What has this done to him?

[Jamie Baum]

He wants to do what is right so we can make sure we have the correct justice. And it's just really hard emotionally. He feels. Feels like his country has turned his back on his children and he has put all the effort into making it safe for everybody and it's just not, it's still not. So it's probably hurting him in a way that none of us will ever understand, but we see it.

[Nancy Grace]

For those of you joining us and just joining us now, there is a desperate search right now in Gary, Indiana and Beyond for a 25 year old pregnant mom, Emma Baum. Please help us.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The search for Baum has been extensive. Police say three primary locations have come up in the investigation and those searches have been exhausted. Canines brought in on the search found nothing. Multiple interviews have been conducted as volunteers search overgrown fields, knock on doors and pass out flyers. Officers are now scouring old Video footage in the area where Baum went missing.

[Nancy Grace]

A 25 year old mother, nine months pregnant is missing. Stunningly, I have learned that the number one cause of death amongst pregnant women in the US is homicide. It's not a stroke, it's not blood pressure, it's not a heart attack. It's homicide. When I heard that, I actually tracked down the first author, a doctor that wrote that because I couldn't believe it. As I recall, she was with the New England Journal of Medicine. I thought certainly I had it wrong. I didn't. She didn't. It's true. Look at Emma Baum. Please look at Emma Baum. I know we tonight sound angry and agitated because we are. She cannot just vanish. Of the face of the earth. Who saw a nine months pregnant woman her beautiful Emma. We know that her phone should still be pinging, but apparently it's not. We know that there. We know there have been searches with canines. They found nothing. Volunteers searching overgrown fields, knocking on doors, passing out flyers. We know. Officers say they are scouring old video footage in the area from which she went missing. No sign of Emma. I don't believe in supernatural reasons for disappearances or reappearances. This is very real. And someone very real and very much alive knows where is Emma Joining me in all star panel, but in addition to sister Abby, hopefully Father Jason can rejoin us.

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[Nancy Grace]

This has triggered so much for him. He is an Iraqi war vet. Crime Stories with Nancy, grand mom Jamie and now sister Paige joining us begging for your help. Back to Lisette Guillen joining us, host of Case Files Chicago. Lisette, I've been looking at the crime rates now, while Indiana itself has one of the lower national crime rates, Gary not so much when it comes to violent crime 27th in violent crime nationally. Explain.

[Lisette Guillen]

The area of Gary is, you know, very. It is very urban, and there is a lot of migration that comes through from the city of Chicago, people that are relocated there to here. So it's interesting. And we know that Chicago has some issues of its own, and some of those people come and bring some of those issues. So we're adding that onto the top already on top of the issues that Gary's already had. The other problem is, is that is a flight. I mean, people aren't living in Gary no more. People aren't cleaning a lot of businesses there like they used to. And so people are scavenging for jobs. People have to move out to find other jobs. The school system, there's plenty of schools that are not open anymore. In fact, one of them that came into question, Pulaski School, which is a point of interest for police, was set on fire recently. And so we have, in addition to abandoned buildings, we have abandoned schools now as well. So that all plays into the part of the crime and the dilapidation of the city of Gary.

[Nancy Grace]

All of what Lisette just told us is true. But that leaves me still asking, where is this beautiful girl at? Not at one centimeter dilation.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Listen, Emma Baum comes from a very close, big family with brothers and sisters for just about every day of the week. She loves the closeness they share now as adults. And she's creating her own large family with three children, Camden, 6, Lucas, 3, Amber, 2. And her fourth is on the way. Her sister Abigail says Emma is energetic, always reaching for the sky like a sunflower, which is her favorite flower. Emma is very creative with her appearance, as she usually wears wigs of all kinds of colors and styles over her naturally brown hair. She never looks the same for very long.

[Nancy Grace]

Emma's family is desperately pushing for more resources to be put toward finding Emma. Listen.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Baum's family is pushing for more resources to be given to the search effort. Sister Abby Smith says the family has put their own lives at risk searching abandoned houses and digging dirt piles. According to the Gary police commander, there are license plate reading cameras and gunshot detection technology, but no police observation device cameras or POD cameras in the area. Baum was last seen in another sister Hailey Baum, says she has stopped people in their cars, stopped people walking, talking to everyone possible. They are now turning to the public for help. Emma's mother, Jamie Baum, says, quote, we're always going to look for her. I'm never going to stop looking for her.

[Nancy Grace]

Let me understand Jamie Baum this is Emma's mother joining us. You and Abby have been stopping cars, asking if anyone has seen Emma. Tell me about this.

[Jamie Baum]

We've been out every day, all day, 24 7, walking in the middle of the road, going in houses, asking anyone that we can, holding our sign up to every window like a desert to find her.

[Nancy Grace]

Paige Baum joining us in addition to Abby and Jamie. Paige, tell me about your family's effort on your own without police or sheriffs trying to find Emma.

[Jamie Baum]

We've been searching every day. We haven't found any answers, but we're gonna keep trying it.

[Nancy Grace]

Abby, tell me about what you. What is going through your mind when you're out in the middle of the road, running up to cars, saying, have you seen my sister? And showing her picture.

[Jamie Baum]

Determination, hoping that someone is gonna give us an answer, that someone knows something, that maybe if they run us over, they'll look harder because that could be the guy running from the situation.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, I don't understand why you have to be out going car to car and door to door and in abandoned homes looking for Emma. Jamie, why are your daughters doing the police work?

[Jamie Baum]

Well, we have to find her somehow. And if we have to do it, that's what's gonna happen. Police aren't out there doing, going through houses, so we are.

[Nancy Grace]

Why? Why aren't they? Have you asked them that?

[Jamie Baum]

Yes, they said they're doing. They say they're doing their job.

[Nancy Grace]

Joining me is Greg Morse, high profile trial lawyer, partner at the law firm of King and Morse, Palm Beach. You can find him atKing Morse law dot com. Greg, very often you and I are on different sides of the fence, but I think you agree with me that there's an issue here, a disturbing issue. How can you. Without antagonizing or agitating law enforcement, how can you get them to do more? And what do you do as a family if you're not getting answers?

[Greg Morse]

Well, it is surprising in this one. I looked into it. What I haven't read the police have been trying to do. This country has license plates, readers across the entire. There's an expressway that borders this. There's also a port to Lake Michigan that borders the side. There's a lot of opportunity for law enforcement to look at technology to try shrink the story as to where this young lady was taken or where she went. I was surprised. A lot of the mainstream media has not, not given very many details which police of course hold back. Some stuff to verify credibility. I get that. But when I look at this area that's unfortunately, a common area in America. Low income area that's forgotten. There's a lot of industry around it. One thing we talk about, cell phone towers. That's just one component of what it says. Cell phones also routinely, their Bluetooth will ping off of things anywhere they are. There is a lot of data that law enforcement could be looking at, and maybe they are. It sounds like, though, from the family that they're not. So I don't know how there hasn't been further information. There's a lot of resources to. To try to find where this girl or what happened to lead down that path.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The family of Emma Baum says the police have not been helpful in their efforts to find Emma. But police say they have dedicated their search efforts to the three primary locations that have come up during investigation and are now pivoting the investigation to scour old video footage in the areas where Emma was last seen. The area around Antwan Butler's house, the.

[Nancy Grace]

Area around the bio dad's home is the beginning where she was last seen before, according to him, she left that area. But the family has made it known that the Gary PD was not helpful to them in their search for Emma. Now a new detective with Lake County Homicide. Lake County Homicide is on the case and they feel rejuvenated. They feel that someone cares about their case. Detective Gordon's number is 219-755-3855. Repeat, 219-755-3855. When this goes to air tonight, please have that number emblazoned on a screen so people can see it. To Jamie Baum. Explain to me why you felt that the Gary, Indiana police dragged their feet. You know what? Let me ask you a question. According to a report given to me, one of the Gary, Indiana police said to you when Emma went missing, well, if she's dead in a dumpster, you'll never find her. Did that happen? I'm going to confirm that with you.

[Jamie Baum]

Yes, ma', am, it did. He told. He had told my. My daughter that if she was gone, she would not be found. And that hurt my family. Great.

[Nancy Grace]

I understand that after that you feel renewed hope because Lake County Homicide, specifically Detective Gordon, is now on the case. May I ask you what led the Gary, Indiana police officer to tell you in the midst of the search of Emma, nine months pregnant. Yeah, she's dead in a dumpster. You'll never find her. What brought that on?

[Jamie Baum]

Somebody had gave us some information and I had called and asked to pass it on to him. I asked him if he wanted it. I had it all nicely where he could read it with the times and no questions asked, no cutting it off perfectly. Here you go. He told me no. Not only did he not need it, that if that was accurate, we would never be able to find her if she was thrown into the garbage dump.

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[Nancy Grace]

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To Brian Fitzgibbons, Director, Operations, USPA Nationwide Security specialty finding missing people. You know, in the midst of an investigation, I've had victims families give me a lot of information and sometimes I knew immediately it was not going to be pertinent to the investigation. Like two years ago she got a hang up phone call. Just an example. But you don't tell the family, I don't need your information. She's probably dead in a dumpster and you'll never find her. What was he thinking?

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Yeah. This defies logic, Nancy. And to the family. I'm so sorry that, you know, you had to hear that. It's very troubling to hear that.

[Nancy Grace]

I mean, you take the information and you may believe, well, this is not pertinent, but you don't say that to a victim's family. You take the information, you review it, you look at it, you study it and determine if it is or is not relevant. But to say that to a family when they are the ones out looking in abandoned homes, they are the ones digging through fields high in grass. They are the ones out in the street asking drivers to help them. Joining me right now is a renowned forensic psychologist, Dr. Sherry Schwartz. You can find her at panthermitigation.com Dr. Sherry I recall the feeling of helplessness when my fiance was murdered. There was nothing I could do nothing. That is a feeling you never get over. This family has felt they had no ally, that no one was helping them. That can destroy. You saw the father have to get up and leave. Jason couldn't even listen because he feels so helpless. What is that? How can we fight that so the family can get back on track and find Emma?

[Dr. Sherry Schwartz]

Well, first of all, I want to say to the family how sorry I am for everything that you're going through for Jason, for dad and for mom and even for the siblings. You can see the overwhelming sense of fear and helplessness and frustration that they can't get the help that they need from the people that we turn to to get help. They're being told, well, you know, she's dead, she might be in a dumpster somewhere and, and you'll never find her. But what they're failing to understand is that nobody knows if she's dead. And if they don't go out and investigate, then we're not going to know. And it's not just missing Emma, there's a baby possibly, right, an infant baby that's missing. So from my position, there's two people missing here. And for the family, you guys are doing, from my perspective, everything that you can possibly do. Continue to stick together that's really, really important and support each other. Try to overcome your feelings of guilt because you're not doing anything wrong and you didn't do anything to cause this to happen.

[Nancy Grace]

Guys. This has been dragging on for weeks. The disappearance of Emma Baum and in that time, wild fantastical theories have have emerged. Listen.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Bobby Jo Stinne is eight months pregnant. Lisa Montgomery lies to her saying she wants to buy one of her puppies. Montgomery drives from Melbourne, Kansas to Bobby Jo's home in Skidmore, Missouri. Montgomery strangles the mom to be and cuts the baby from her stomach. Lisa Montgomery is arrested. The next day the baby girl lives and is now a teenager living with her dad.

[Nancy Grace]

You think that's fantastical? It was actually floated as a defense theory in the Scott Peterson murder trial. Dead Lacey Peterson and unborn child Connor. These fantastical theories are not helping in the search for Emma, but yet they continue. Such as comparing the case to a teen girl, Marlon Ochoa Lopez.

[Narrator/Reporter]

19 year old Marlon Oshoa Lopez is lured to the home of Desiree and Clarissa Figueroa with the promise of baby clothes. Once there, prosecutors say Clarissa got on top of Marlon, continuing to strangle her for up to five minutes. After researching how long it would take for someone to die, that way. They allegedly cut the baby from Marlin's body, stuffed her in a plastic bag in a hidden garbage can outside. Clarissa then claimed the baby with the umbilical cord and placenta still attached, was hers. Her boyfriend is accused of helping to hide the murder and evidence at the home. On Friday, October 11, Emma Baum does not reach out to her family members even though they are expecting her to come home. Emma has a phone, but it is out of minutes, telling her mother not to worry. She is getting minutes put on the phone on Friday. Emma said she would be back on Friday to do something with her six year old son, Camden. She doesn't show and doesn't call. The family waits through Saturday for Emma to come back and when she isn't home by Sunday, her mother calls. Antoine Butler. Antoine told Emma's mother, Jamie Baum, that he saw her leave with some girl in a car.

[Nancy Grace]

What? Look, when my husband has to go out of town for work or he has to go somewhere, I think I know where he's going and what he's doing. Same thing with my children. What does this mean? The bf, the bio dad boyfriend says he, quote, saw her leave with some girl in a car. Lisette Guillen, joining us, investigative reporters, host of Case Files Chicago, Lisette Gann. Let me understand, that is the level of detail I've got from the boyfriend that she left with, quote, some girl in a car. That's it.

[Lisette Guillen]

That's it, Nancy. And that's where the frustration lies, is there's very little details.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, hold on just a moment. Jamie Baum, this is Emma's mother. Has the boyfriend been helping to look for Emma?

[Jamie Baum]

No, and his family has never reached out either.

[Nancy Grace]

Yeah, I don't like the way that smells. To Greg Morse joining me, high profile lawyer at King Morse. That's a silk stocking law firm out of Palm Beach County. Greg, when I look at a statement or I evaluate the credibility of a witness, I look to see if their statement is, quote, rich in detail. I can tell you exactly what my son was wearing when he left for school this morning. Exactly. And I know what vehicle he was driving. I can tell you exactly what my daughter was wearing, what vehicle she was in, right down to their backpacks, their tote bags and their water bottles. What is this gibberish? Some girl. A girl in a car. What?

[Greg Morse]

Well, not everybody remembers the same detail as everyone else. However, 25 years of practicing law and handling every type of case, these type of general statements that don't aren't made in Completion where the car went here. I knew the person was coming. The police generally look at that as suspect. They're not credible. And it, as I mentioned before, why isn't there information about this potential car? Why aren't there people looking into where this car goes? Very easy thing to follow for police.

[Nancy Grace]

I hear you say. Not everybody remembers details. Did you say that?

[Greg Morse]

I did say that, Nancy. Not everybody remembers the same. We're all different people.

[Nancy Grace]

My fiance Keith was murdered decades ago. I can remember right now what he was wearing. Blue jeans and a denim shirt. He was going to work on a construction crew. He was driving a white Le Mans. And as he left, he hung his left arm out the window and waved goodbye to me. I remember it crystal clear. It branded on my brain. Jamie, do you remember the last time you saw Emma?

[Jamie Baum]

Yes. She was wearing black.

[Nancy Grace]

What was she wearing? What did she say?

[Jamie Baum]

Black clothing. She had her bag strapped around. She had her purse strapped around her chest. And she gave us a hug bye and told us she'd be home tomorrow. The next day, kissed her son.

[Nancy Grace]

Greg Morris, I understand that you represent a lot of clients, but that is total BS man, that he. All he knows is she left with some girl in a car. Technical, legal term. I don't know if you use that at King and Morse, but that's BS and I'm calling him out on this. Another thing, another thing I don't like is the last time she's scene, it's at his house. Abby Smith. This is Emma's sister, isn't that true?

[Jamie Baum]

That is correct. Our sister Jaden and Jewel dropped her off for sure at that house to meet her boyfriend.

[Nancy Grace]

Now, I don't want to make an issue of this because this is a side issue, it's collateral issue. But I'm curious. I'm very curious, Abby. This BF boyfriend, Antoine Butler, was he supportive of the pregnancy? Was he helping her?

[Jamie Baum]

No. There had been multiple times that he had asked her to get an abortion. And that is a fact. He didn't want it. When Emma found out she was going into labor, she just wanted to go more or less make sure and confirm and decide. She decided that no matter what, she was going to keep the baby and it was going to make her a better person. And that if he didn't want to be a part of it, that she needed to figure it out prior to fully going into labor.

[Nancy Grace]

So no money. He's not supporting her. He's not excited about the baby. He wants her to have an abortion. You know what? All of that moral flaws. That does not make him a kidnapper or a murderer. However, I'm very concerned about the fact, BRIAN fitzgibbons, uspa, that that's where she's last seen. That doesn't bother you? And nobody can tell me what kind of car she left in or where she went or anything.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Oh, it's absolutely disturbing, Nancy, A vague statement like that coupled with, you know, potentially a motive that he didn't want her to have the baby and that she's having this conversation as she's about to go into labor, dilated a centimeter, you know, that this, that was the purpose of this conversation. So all of this adds up to be very suspicious.

[Nancy Grace]

Jamie, why did she go over to his place?

[Jamie Baum]

I tried to keep her. I tried to ask her not to. She wanted to talk with him over about the baby. I tried to keep her.

[Nancy Grace]

Dr. Siri Schwartz, what we women go through to try to have the Hallmark Christmas card, you know, we want the house deck. We want the house. We want the husband or the partner. We want the, the children. We want the turkey dinner. We want the Christmas tree. We want it the way we have grown up to think it should be right. And I've got a feeling Emma wanted that. She wanted the bio dad to want the baby be part of the life, be a family, and was going over to probably try to convince him of that.

[Dr. Sherry Schwartz]

I'm sure for Emma, she probably couldn't imagine that he didn't feel the same way she felt in terms of wanting to have this baby and parent this baby. And so that one of the difficulties. You're absolutely right. This is what we crave. She's about to give birth and she wants to talk to him and say, don't you want to be a part of this amazing child's life?

[Jamie Baum]

I think you hurt my baby. And when you find where she's at.

[Nancy Grace]

The family in so much pain now out flagging down cars, going to abandoned buildings, walking through fields, begging for volunteers. That from our friends at ABC7, the boyfriend, the bio dad in this case, Antoine Butler, has not been named a formal suspect in the disappearance of Emma. Emma Baum, just 25 years old, nine months pregnant. And today I join with her family asking for your help. Tip line to Detective Gordon. 219-755-3855 or 1-800- you tell us. 1-800-883-5587 to Emma's mother, Jamie Baumgart. Jamie, what is your message tonight? If Emma can hear you, baby, we love you.

[Jamie Baum]

Watch your home. We miss you researching for you. We will not stop until we find you. I love you. Everybody loves you. We'll find you again.

[Nancy Grace]

The tip line 1-800-you- tell us or 219-3855 we wait for justice to unfold. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye friend. With diabetes, everyday decisions feel like a mystery without a solution. But with Dexcom G7, the most accurate CGM system, you can quickly and easily see your glucose in real time on your ph, helping you make confident decisions that keep your glucose levels in range and lower your A1C which can help protect your long term health. Dexcom G7 gives you the knowledge to better control diabetes today. For healthier tomorrows Start your healthier [e-mail] knowledge data on file. For full prescribing information on risk, benefits and compatible smart devices, visit dexcom.com this.

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[Nancy Grace]

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[Jamie Baum]

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[Jamie Baum]

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[Jamie Baum]

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[Nancy Grace]

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