EPSTEIN BABY? SEARCH FOR BODIES

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: "EPSTEIN BABY? SEARCH FOR BODIES"
Date: March 17, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this explosive episode, Nancy Grace investigates the latest developments in the Jeffrey Epstein case—specifically, an active search for bodies of missing girls at his infamous Zorro Ranch in New Mexico. The discussion features forensic experts, victim advocates, and survivors, unmasking new angles of Epstein's alleged crimes on U.S. soil. Alongside the chilling search for bodies, the show addresses shocking revelations that Epstein may have fathered a child, persistent failures by law enforcement, the continued silence surrounding Ghislaine Maxwell, and the traumatizing legacy left with the victims. Nancy Grace and her panel demand accountability and deeper investigation into one of America’s darkest criminal sagas.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Search for Bodies at Zorro Ranch

Timestamps: 02:42–11:57

• The New Mexico authorities are actively searching Epstein's Zorro Ranch following a tip that two girls were allegedly murdered and buried on the property at Epstein's order.
• The search focuses particularly on areas of the ranch leased from the state, previously used for cattle grazing, with roughly 1,500 acres under scrutiny.
• The property is vast—nearly 8,000 acres making the search for remains extremely complex.
• The tip originated from data dumps and emails revealed in recent document releases (04:55), with descriptions of two girls being choked to death during "wild, perverted sex acts."
• Nancy Grace sharply questions why the FBI failed to search this U.S. property post-Epstein’s death, despite aggressive searches in other states and at his Caribbean island (05:57).

Notable Quote:
"Searching Zorro Ranch, it’s like looking for a needle in a stack of needles right now."
—Joe Scott Morgan, Forensic Expert (05:33)

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2. Impact on Victims & Systemic Failures

Timestamps: 09:43–13:37

• Victim advocates and survivors' families, including Danny Roberts (brother of Virginia Giuffre), speak about the trauma associated with the ranch and the need for truth and accountability (09:19).
• Dr. Bethany Marshall reframes the alleged crimes as "torture," emphasizing that the trauma inflicted has life-long devastating effects and criticizing euphemisms like "rough sex" (11:57).
• Lynn Shaw, Lynn’s Warriors, asserts that crimes at Zorro Ranch were frequently downplayed, and calls out authorities and the FBI for failing to act for decades (15:18).

Notable Quotes:
"We have to get away from the words rape and rough sex and use the appropriate terminology, which is torture. If these girls died, there was torture."
—Dr. Bethany Marshall (11:57)

"There is no such thing as 'falling through the cracks.' Somebody failed. The system failed."
—Nancy Grace (10:56)

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3. Details of Abuse and Grooming

Timestamps: 15:36–20:16, 27:01–34:56

• Lynn Shaw and Dr. Bethany Marshall describe the grooming process at Zorro Ranch: girls lured with promises of glamour, luxury, shopping, and then systematically isolated and abused.
• Zorro Ranch is described as a "Disneyland for girls," with nowhere to run—victims were often foreign, with language barriers compounding their isolation.
• The panel draws parallels to cult behavior, and the psychological manipulation that left victims confused and blaming themselves.
• Video and photographic evidence surfaced from an employee who tried to use the material as "insurance," demanding payment for turning it over to authorities (17:43).

Notable Quote:
"This is a bigger story… girls reported to me: there was nowhere to run at Zorro Ranch. It was just acres and acres of nothing…We had to comply."
—Lynn Shaw (15:37)

Survivor Testimony:
"I suddenly realized, oh, my God, my family aren't going to see me again. These people might kill me."
—Juliet Bryant, Epstein victim (27:01, 34:04, 42:30, 34:29)

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4. Failures of Law Enforcement and Ongoing Investigations

Timestamps: 20:16–22:43, 25:56–28:09

• Significant criticism is leveled at federal, state, and local authorities for their lack of action, even after official complaints of abuse at Zorro Ranch dating back to the 1990s.
• Rep. Melanie Stansbury (08:41, 22:11) discusses the importance of the ongoing investigation to deliver justice and to finally bring answers to survivors.

Notable Quote:
"Hidden in plain sight, Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell built something very different—a house of horrors. Money and power do not buy you a different set of laws."
—Nancy Grace (21:58)

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5. The Process of Locating Remains

Timestamps: 28:09–31:48

• Forensic expert Joe Scott Morgan details the intricate, methodical process needed to find buried bodies: satellite imagery comparisons, drone overflights with spectral and infrared cameras, and eventual on-the-ground grid searches, led by forensic anthropologists and geologists.
• Emphasizes not rushing the process to preserve possible evidence.

Notable Quote:
"If you want to honor any victims that are out there, you have to take your time working these cases… This is going to be a very involved process."
—Joe Scott Morgan (28:09)

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6. Ghislaine Maxwell’s Prison Life & Unanswered Questions

Timestamps: 45:40–54:16

• Ghislaine Maxwell, imprisoned in Texas, is described as ruling the facility, refusing to bathe, intimidating inmates and staff, and exploiting loopholes in prison protocol (46:17).
• She remains largely silent about Zorro Ranch and is suspected of orchestrating certain privileges.
• Discussion includes concerns about why she has not cooperated more, and speculation on potential deals or political influence.
• Experts debate her narcissistic, sociopathic behavior and its psychological impact.

Notable Quotes:
"She's not being charged with a thing. I think the question we should be asking is why is she allowed, from what I hear, to run the camp?"
—Lynn Shaw (52:37)

"This is actually a peculiarity of sociopathy...When you are so grandiose...you feel no need to bathe because your such and such doesn't stink, right?"
—Dr. Bethany Marshall (48:07)

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7. Epstein’s “Baby” and Continuing Mysteries

Timestamps: 54:16–55:19

• Briefly covered amid the more urgent investigation, reports circulate that Epstein fathered a child—a little boy—with a woman he labeled "the perfect woman."
• This information was reportedly well-known among Epstein’s inner circle, even being acknowledged by the former Duke (Prince Andrew) via a congratulatory email.
• The panel is wary, however, not to let this distract from focusing on the search for bodies and pursuit of justice.

Notable Quote:
"Right now I’m more concerned about the bodies that may be uncovered at Zorro Ranch…If you know or think you know anything...please dial 800-CALL-FBI."
—Nancy Grace (55:19)

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• Danny Roberts on Survivor Trauma
  "Standing here at Zorro Ranch, a place that represents such trauma and nightmares for my sister and so many other survivors is harder than I ever imagined."
  —Danny Roberts (09:19)

• On the Need for Systemic Change
  "Our government has failed, our law enforcement has failed here, and the FBI is top of the list. Why is Ghislaine the only one ever arrested right now?"
  —Lynn Shaw (16:32)

• On Victims’ Lifelong Struggles
  "It’s like breaking your arm and never getting it set. You will learn how to flip a pancake, but it's never the same."
  —Nancy Grace (11:18)

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Notable Timestamps for Key Segments

• Search for Bodies Begins: 03:16–08:41
• Voices of Survivors & Relatives: 09:19, 27:01, 34:04, 42:30
• Forensic Search Process: 28:09–31:48
• Discussion on Maxwell’s Prison Situation: 45:40–54:16
• Epstein “Baby” Revelation: 54:16–55:19

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Tone and Language

The tone throughout is urgent, passionate, and often outraged—reflecting Nancy Grace’s signature style. The conversation is blunt, unvarnished, and frequently emotionally charged, whether discussing the technicalities of forensic investigation or the devastating human toll on victims.

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Conclusion

This episode lays bare new horrors in the Epstein saga, revealing failures at every institutional level and raising chilling questions that remain unanswered:

• Why was Zorro Ranch left unsearched for so long?
• Will more victims ever see justice?
• What influence still protects key players like Ghislaine Maxwell?
• Will crucial files and video evidence ever be made public?

Nancy Grace ends with a call to action for anyone with information and a recommitment to keeping the story—and its victims—front and center.

If you have any information on the crimes at Zorro Ranch:
CALL THE FBI: 800-225-5324

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Transcript

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[Nancy Grace]

Epstein, Baby Jeffrey Epstein has a baby. This while a search for bodies is going on, a search for human girl bodies is going on at Epstein's Zorro Ranch. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.

[Public Investing Sponsor]

Authorities launched a major criminal search of Jeffrey Epstein's former Zorro Ranch in New Mexico.

[Dave Mack]

They began searching the 7,600 acre property due to a tip alleging that two

[Public Investing Sponsor]

girls were buried in the hills outside

[Dave Mack]

the ranch on Epstein's orders.

[Nancy Grace]

Jeffrey Epstein has a baby. Okay, I want to talk about that, but frankly, a baby is not my business. Dead bodies are straight out to Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author, Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of a hit podcast series Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. A search at Zorro Ranch for at least two girls bodies. Now, first of all, hold Joe Scott, Dave Mack, crime stories investigative reporter. I just need two words out of you. Where is Zorro Ranch?

[Dave Mack]

South of Santa Fe, New Mexico, 30 miles.

[Nancy Grace]

See, I said two words and then you just blew that. You blew that up. New Mexico, New Mexico. Joe Scott Morgan, New Mexico, here in the U.S. let me see Joe Scott, please. Joe Scott. We're not talking about wrongdoing in the US Virgin Islands or in London or in France or in the stands. We hear a lot about from Lynn Shaw where girls are imported to Lolita island for Jeffrey Epstein and all of his clients, but there is no client list. Forget about that. That's bs. This is here on US Soil and we're just hearing about it. Tell me what you know.

[Joe Scott Morgan]

Oh, what I know is that there you they've had an email that had come in in one of these dumps in one of these tranches of data that has been released. And of course a lot of it's redacted. But what was stated is that there are at least two victims, according to the source, that have gone out and they have stated that they used to work there at the Zorro Ranch. They claimed that during some kind of wild, perverted sex act that two, not one, but two individuals, young women, were choked to death. That they were essentially asphyxiated and then their remains were taken out onto this property, which Nancy, to say it's vast is an understatement. Taken out and they were buried in the hills surrounding this area. It's very nonspecific, but right now, according to what we're hearing, there's a search going on of this property looking for these remains. I have to think about. It's looking for a needle in a stack of needles right now, after Epstein's

[Nancy Grace]

death, our own FBI said they, quote, lacked evidence to search the New Mexico Zorro Ranch. Now this, as they swarmed Epstein's Manhattan townhouse and his private island in the Caribbean, but not New Mexico. Straight out to Dave Mack, crime Stories investigative reporter. I'm going to go back to Joe Scott. Dave, on the way. The methods you use in trying to find dead bodies that have been there for a period of years. Can cadaver dogs even find them? But I want you to bring me up to date in a nutshell about the search of Zorro Ranch right here, US Soil, on a ranch owned by Epstein. But even after his death, the FBI said we don't have enough PC to search for dead bodies.

[Dave Mack]

Really, Nancy, this is a. When you talk about searching Zorro Ranch, you're 30 miles outside of Santa Fe, New Mexico. The ranch was owned by Jeffrey Epstein from 1993 until after his death. The search is actually on a part of the property that was leased from the state of New Mexico. Jeffrey Epstein specifically leased this additional property to graze cattle.

[Nancy Grace]

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Jeffrey Epstein, known child sex trafficker, multimillionaire, leased this land from the state. It belonged to the state and now we're searching for girls bodies there on. Go ahead.

[Dave Mack]

Zorro Ranch is large, but it also includes about 1500 acres of land that was leased to Jeffrey Epstein by the state of New Mexico and is on this property where these bodies are allegedly buried. Again, you mentioned this a minute ago, but it bears repeating. Jeffrey Epstein's properties in New York, Florida and all over the place were all searched. Not Zorro Ranch. And it's at Zorro Ranch where there is a belief that two bodies of two young women who were killed during rough sex and buried on the property that actually was leased from the state of New Mexico. They're now searching. Investigators are finally searching. Searching Zorro Ranch.

[Joe Scott Morgan]

Standing here at Zorro Ranch, a place

[Nancy Grace]

represents such trauma and nightmares for my

[Public Investing Sponsor]

sister and so many other survivors is harder than I ever imagined.

[Representative Melanie Stansbury]

It is a crucial piece in getting to the bottom of truth and accountability here in our state to hold those who are still able to be held accountable to the law, as well as seeking justice and healing for survivors here in our state.

[Nancy Grace]

That first speaker, you may not recognize him. That is Danny Roberts, Virginia Jaffray's brother. There at Zorro Ranch. You know what I want to hear. And the second person is Representative Melanie Stansburg. I want to hear that again. I want to hear what Jeffrey's brother says. Let's hear it.

[Joe Scott Morgan]

Standing here at Zorro Ranch, a place

[Nancy Grace]

represents such trauma and nightmares for my

[Public Investing Sponsor]

sister and so many other survivors is harder than I ever imagined.

[Representative Melanie Stansbury]

It is a crucial piece in getting to the bottom of truth and accountability here in our state to hold those who are still able to be held accountable to the law as well as seeking justice and healing for survivors here

[Nancy Grace]

in our state tale at Stansbury. Tell it from our friends at ABC now. Remember, Virginia Giuffre was one of Epstein's victims and she's the one that busted Andrew, formerly known as Prince, for having child sex with her. She was a teenage girl. There he is. He swore up and down this photo is fake, but then he paid a multimillion dollar settlement to Jeffrey, who then turned up dead, reportedly by suicide. Okay, straight out to Dr. Bethany Marshall. Joining us, renowned psychoanalyst, author of Deal Breaker. You can see her now on Peacock and you can find her at drbethenny marshall.com Dr. Bethany I have investigated and prosecuted the cases of so many rape victims, including adult rape victims that were raped and abused when they were children, little girls. Bethany, you can explain it better than me as can Lynn Shaw, but they're never the same. Dr. Bethany and what triggered this in my mind just then was hearing Jeffrey's brother, Danny Roberts there at Zorro Ranch where they're looking for girls bodies right now. How long have they been there? If they are there, how long have they been buried? What did this? Nobody go looking for them. Did they just fall through the cracks? I hate that phrase. There's no such thing as fall, falling through the cracks. Somebody failed either their parents, the system, someone failed. It just didn't happen. Nothing fell through cracks. But these women that I have worked with literally thousands of women over the years, they're never the same. They go on. If you see them at work or the grocery store, sitting in the pew next to you at synagogue or church, they seem perfectly fine. They're not. It's like, as I've always said, breaking your arm and never getting it set. You will learn how to flip a pancake, but it's never the same. You're never the same after your heart is cracked wide open. I can say that much. You can explain.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

You know, Nancy, in order to understand the trauma, we have to get away from the words rape and rough sex and Use the appropriate terminology, which is torture.

[Lynn Shaw]

Okay?

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

If these girls died, there were torture, There was torture. And if there are two girls, there are more. All right, so if we think of the perversions which all clustered together and Jeffrey had all of them, we think of exhibitionism. That's why he was on that massage table, so he could display himself. Voyeurism. Remember he was reported by a neighbor in Florida for being a peeping Tom. Okay, but. But pedophilia. But sadism is one of the perversions. So that's one of the things that hasn't been adequately talked about, is that he was probably likely torturing those girls and that's why they died. Now maybe he wasn't sticking nails into them or hanging them upside down like some perps we talk about. But when you choke somebody until they die, when you are strangulating them, you are looking for fear and terror in those eyes. And in terms of the trauma of the girls who got away, I think the worst part would be the flashbacks. Meaning that that anybody who will ever flirt with one of these girls, love them, date them, ask them out, spend time together, they will feel like they're being violated all over again. The mind cannot distinguish between past and present when a person is traumatized. So the world begins to feel unsafe and dangerous. And even having a close, warm, intimate relationship will be equated with being tortured and raped. That's what these women are destined for for the rest of their lives.

[Nancy Grace]

Photos that were obtained from the latest data dump of Epstein files. Trust me, we don't have them all yet. And faces blacked out in many of them. Those are children. And there is one shot of little girls wearing identical outfits. Kind of like it looked like white like schoolgirl outfits. Those are little girls. Those are girls. Those are minors. And you know who is really making me sick right now? Lyncha is Ghislaine Maxwell. Because though every photo of her with Epstein, she's got this self satisfied, smug smirk on her face and I just want to slap it right off because I can't get Epstein. Satan has him. But I could get Ghislaine Maxwell. I can get her because she stood by and watched this whole thing on. How dare she smile on a private plane when there could be bodies buried at Zorro Ranch. What is wrong with her guys? Lynn Shaw, Founder, Director, Lynn's Warriors. Completely dedicated to. To ending human trafficking and sex exploitation of girls and women, of people. What do you think, Lynn, about the latest number one? I'm going to circle back to Epstein Has a baby. That said looking for bodies on Zorro Ranch.

[Lynn Shaw]

Do you hear, Nancy, what we're talking about? We're looking for bodies of potential miners. I want to share with you. We at the warriors have always spoken to with victims of Epstein Maxwell. I say their names together because they are both equally complicit in our book. And they have always reported to us.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

The real.

[Lynn Shaw]

The real crimes were happening at Zorro Ranch and nobody was really ever talking about it. It was the Manhattan townhouse. It was the island once in a while, Paris. Zorro Ranch. They reported to me several years ago. This is where they talked about impregnating minors. This is where they talked about seeding the race to create this DNA. Elitist kind of, you know, in their own image. With all these tech people, they also filled me in. Tech people were. He was very much Jeffrey and Ghislaine. They were interested in technology. Go back and look at the history of the Maxwell family. There's a lot of technology in their background. This is what they were interested in. This is a bigger story then. I know this is hard to understand. A little bit. Sex trafficking in a Manhattan townhouse. And also reported girls. Report it now. Women. They would say to me, Lynn, there was nowhere to run in Zorro Ranch. It was just acres and acres of nothing. We couldn't get away. We had to comply. We're talking about two dead bodies. I venture to say, in my opinion, there's a lot more. We're talking about little girls, teens, with all of this horrible criminality against their little bodies and things like that. And you know what I don't understand. Jeffrey was arrested in 2006. We're still talking about this. And I'm afraid the public is becoming habituated to the Epstein Maxwell story. And we will never get the truth. This is about all victims of Jeffrey Epstein and all victims and survivors of sexual exploitation. And our government has failed, our law enforcement has failed here, and the FBI is top of the list. Why is Ghislaine the only one ever arrested right now, sitting in some kind of country club, not showering, not eating, whatever she's doing? What is going on here? We demand answers. This is ridiculous. Now we're talking about this. 2006 was Jeffrey's first arrest. 20 years later, who's complicit? Why aren't more in jail? Let's think about those victims. As Dr. Bethany pointed out, the lifelong trauma they suffer, the lives ruined, the families ruined. We have a lot of work to do here. And the government better start answering to us, the people we. The people we pay taxes. They're not doing their jobs.

[Nancy Grace]

The employee claims to have taken seven videos of minors being sexually tortured from the home as, quote, insurance. Dave Mack, what does that mean?

[Dave Mack]

Well, what is shocking about this, Nancy, is this former employee volunteering to turn over these copies of the thumb drives of what we're led to believe are acts of sexual. No, of rape against children at Zorro Ranch. But the former employee wants a bitcoin. Now, at the time, the individual was trying to sell copies of the videos, asking for one bitcoin. It was only worth about $8,000, but that was the price this former employee was demanding. Now, all of the emails were to the FBI, which is how we found out about them in the property dump that came out on Epstein. There will be more, but that. That's the videos that were surreptitiously recorded at Zorro Ranch involving underage girls.

[Nancy Grace]

This is like no ranch I've ever seen. Nothing. This so called ranch is 30,000 square feet. Look at this video from our friends at Koat. Look at that. 30,000 square feet. Feet sitting on nearly 8,000 acres. The bodies could be anywhere. How long is it going to take cadaver dogs to search all of this, for Pete's sake? That is unlike any ranch I've ever seen. Wow. Okay. What more do we know? Now this is crazy. Dr. Bethany Marshall. Conspiracy theorists are saying that the entire war in Iran is to take our attention off Epstein. They are also saying the search for our friend Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie, is some type of crazy plot to take our mind off Epstein. Nobody's forgotten Epstein. We're combing through every document that we get, and trust me, there's a lot more that they're holding onto. But, Dr. Bethany, what is wrong with people?

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Well, you know, and Congress hasn't forgotten either. The truth commission is interviewing or questioning people every day. You know, Nancy, conspiracy theorists, it's really associated with narcissism, meaning that a person plants an idea in their own head based upon some thin truth or reality, and they overvalue what they know. It's like a form of grandiosity, and they have a low interest in the truth. So it's interesting because these conspiracy theorists who are piling on, in a way, it's a little bit like this employee who wanted to sell information about girls being tortured for $8,000. She's trying to monetize the crime. So that tells me just how much Jeffrey Epstein had people around him who were also criminals, like a like an enterprise. I also think that this ranch is interesting. It's like the island. It's so isolated, so that people cannot get girls, children cannot get away. And what we know about sex offenders, they organize their entire lives around their perversions. An island Lolita Express. A ranch way out in nowhere. A Manhattan townhouse where he can entertain royalty and rich businessmen and woo other people to come in and join in on his crime. So back to the conspiracy theorists. There's a thin little bit of truth where there's a lot of distraction going on because there are a lot of men and women who are just sweating it out right now, hoping we will forget. But you're right, Nancy, we haven't forgotten. You're covering this night after night after night. So you are doing right by the victims.

[Nancy Grace]

But right here, hidden in plain sight, Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell built something very different. A house of horrors. We're here to say that money and power do not buy you a different set of laws.

[Representative Melanie Stansbury]

And one of the significant and important pieces of this case is to understand why justice was never pursued at the state, local or federal level. So this investigation is a crucial piece of trying to understand what happened at the ranch to look for potential crimes that may have occurred on the ranch property. Especially because after Jeffrey Epstein was arrested in 2019 and other properties were searched, Zorro Ranch was never properly searched.

[Nancy Grace]

KRQE and from Representative Melanie Stansbury.

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[Public Investing Sponsor]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comDisclosures Time for

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[Nancy Grace]

crime stories with Nancy Grace. Epstein Files still to be released, Major redactions and I guarantee you, regardless of what Bondi has said, we've had conflicting reports from her. There is a witness list. There is not a witness list. Joe Scott Morgan there's not a witness list on a silver platter on top of a Christmas tree with a bow on it. That's not how it works. You have to comb through every document. You have to follow leads like this employee that observed the the torture and possibly death that occurred at Zorro Ranch right here on US Soil not far away in France, not in the stands, not in his lolita island at U.S. virgin Islands, but right here under our noses. Do you know he had that property over 30 years? You want to tell me nobody noticed anything? Multiple now grown women say no. They were groomed there. Hey, Joe Scott, I want you to listen to Juliet Bryant, an Epstein victim.

[Juliet Bryant]

As the plane took off, he started forcefully touching me in between my legs. And I just freaked out. And I realized. I suddenly realized, oh, my God, my family aren't going to see me again. These people might kill me.

[Representative Melanie Stansbury]

New Mexico's Zorro Ranch is a place where multiple crimes were reported both to federal authorities as well as state and local authorities. In fact, there are records that dating back to the mid-1990s of abuse happening at the ranch, including a report to the FBI in 1996 by a survivor and multiple other reports over the years

[Nancy Grace]

back to the 90s. And nobody did a thing. Nobody did a thing. That was from our friends at Sky News and representative Melanie Stansbury. So here we are. Here we are. Jo Scott Morgan, how do you go about. It's like an archaeological dig finding bodies of little girls purported to be buried somewhere in that nearly 8,000 acre ranch.

[Joe Scott Morgan]

Well, the first thing you do is you don't call them civilian volunteers. God bless them. I'm happy that they like to help out. The government is aware of this, Nancy. So the way you have to do this before you ever put boots on the ground is that they're going to have to do satellite imagery out here. This is a vast area and you have to go back back in time as far as you can to do all of the satellite runs in this area where these sites have been captured. Moving forward to see if there's any kind of changes in that property. And they're going to have to dig in. This is going to call on, I would imagine, the resources of maybe the intelligence community to be able to read these things from a geoscience standpoint. Then you're going to have to do passovers with drones that have spectral cameras on them so that they can look at, even using infrared. And this is before you ever put people on the ground, knocking down brush, walking over areas that they don't know what they're looking for. And it's at that point in time that they go out and they find the best forensic ant and I pay attention, the best forensic antenna anthropologists and geologists that they can, and they head these teams up and they break them down into teams. I'm thinking probably crime Scene investigators led by forensic anthropologists and a geologist, and they break this thing into huge grid squares and they work it, they work it, they work it. Listen, if there are bodies out there, and I believe that there's a high probability that there's more than two, I think that they've got all the time in the world to facilitate this. Don't go in there half cocked and screw evidence up. You work it very precisely, documenting everything along the way. This is going to be a very involved process. And I know people are inflamed over this. I know they're impassioned about it. But if you want to honor any victims that are out there, you have to take your time working these cases. So some of this evidence, if there are bodies out there, is going to be very, very fragile. Nancy, I don't believe that these are going to be shallow graves. You're talking about an individual that had a quote unquote cattle ranch. I don't think this idiot knew a Holstein from a longhorn, but he called it that. He's grazing cattle. He probably had heavy equipment. I'm talking about like backhoes, bulldozers. They dug a trench, they would put bodies in there and then cover it up. That's the kind of thing you're looking for from a bird's eye view with imagery. You want to see if the landscape has changed any way. How far out did that go? This so called anonymous source that the FBI has the email from claims that he knew a specific location. Well, how specific is it? And by the way, talking about pressing on an investigation. Have they tracked this person down? And I want to know if the screws are being put to this person. You know, what do you know? You're saying you know all of this information. Give us more specifics. As a matter of fact, come and take a plane ride with us. Come out there. We're gonna put you on the ground and you're gonna show us where you have specific knowledge of where these remains are buried. That's what they need to be doing at this point in time.

[Nancy Grace]

To Lynn Shaw joining us, founder director of Lynn's Warriors. Lynn, the way the girls were lured there, it's classic, it's textbook. They were flown there on private planes. They went swimming, horseback riding, posing for pictures, shopping sprees. And then came the rape.

[Lynn Shaw]

Yeah, it's called the grooming process, Nancy, where one gains the trust of a vulnerable person. And certainly for a young girl, you know, a teen, a young woman, being around power and wealth, celebrities or government officials it's so exciting. I do have to ask, though, and I'm always asking, you know, where were the parents when all of this was going on? But the grooming process is simply gaining the trust, you know, giving expensive presents, treating them like they've never been treated in their life, making them feel so extra special that these young, impressionable girls and women would do anything right, to be part of this. So the next step is, okay, we're going to fly off to the ranch. We're going to have a great time. We're going to go horseback riding, we're going to have a chef, we're going to have massage, and we're going to have, you know, mani pedis and all kinds of stuff and shopping. Okay, that happens for a little while and then they go in. Typical, you know, predator for the kill. And the girls are trapped. The young women are trapped again, as I was told repeatedly, there was nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. They couldn't get away. I, in my mind, have nightmares about girls. Actually, one actually told me she tried running and running and running, and they caught up to her and grabbed her and brought her back to the house. This is what she reported to me. So after all of this, there was nowhere for them to go. And remember, there was also an airstrip on this property. And a source of mine just told me to look at this property and to properly do digs and things like that would actually be eight and a half to nine years to properly look over all these thousands of acres. So this is a sexual predator. Ghislaine Maxwell, all of their complicit people with them. And I have to end with an asking you, why do we have to keep begging for files to be released, names to be released? These victims have told us names over the years. Let's go and find them. Let's, you know, charge them with something. Let's ask them to show us. Let's question people. I do not understand the holdup, but you know what? I fear we will never get to the bottom of this crime ever.

[Nancy Grace]

Speaking of the victims at Zorro Ranch that many people are just now hearing about, and this is happening under our own noses on us. So y' all listen.

[Juliet Bryant]

And I suddenly realized I had to, like, just be nice and be friendly because I realized that I was in great danger. And he's assaulting you and the other women. And they were laughing. Yeah, they saw and they just laughed. I was really, really petrified. And, you know, it just really changed me, the whole. The whole thing, you know, being Going through this, and I just didn't know what to do. And I just really thought that I was going to die.

[Nancy Grace]

That is Juliet Bryant, an Epstein victim, speaking to our friends at Sky News, Dr. Bethany Marshall. It's classic. It's textbook luring. Money was nothing to Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Nothing. She stood by and watched this happen. She lured the girls there, she took part in the assaults, and now she's sitting in Club Sad running the jail.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

But this is classic, you know, Nancy, it is classic. And to add to what Lynn Shaw said, which was so profound and riveting to Just to listen to her, you know, pedophiles also, they. They lure other pedophiles, too. So there was a whole group of people on this ranch who were in on it. It's like it was operating like a cult in a sense, where all the benefits flow to the leader. But I think another thing that Jeffrey Epstein did to lure these girls is that he. He propped himself up as this kind of guru, and he started giving them advice about their future. That's a little bit like P. Diddy, right? You know, I'll make you a star. I'm going to give you a singing contract. This guy Epstein was so good at getting money from other people, and he lorded over these girls and made them feel like they would be rich and famous, too. And by the time he began molesting them, Nancy, a part of the grooming process is that for the victim, confusion sets in. These girls would have told themselves, well, I went here voluntarily. I enjoyed the mani pedis and the movies and the cash. And I did tell him that I wanted him to be a part of my future. Maybe I caused this to happen. That is the confusion of the victim until the terror sets in and they try to get away, and then they are in this isolated place. You know, Nancy, it's like the FLDS cult. Remember when the women tried to get away, other cult members actually went after them, attacked them, brought them back, tortured them, brutalized them. So there's going to be an intimidation process on this ranch that when the girls try to get away, they're brought back and probably beaten and tortured even more. Nancy, there was no getting out of it at that point. The noose was around their neck, metaphorically and literally.

[Nancy Grace]

You're seeing all the outfits the little girls were forced to dress up in for Epstein and Maxwell. And in her book, Virginia Giuffre, one of Epstein and Maxwell's many, many victims, and there's Maxwell just sitting there with that Smug look on her face. Virginia Giuffre was a girl when she was first assaulted by these two. She said that Epstein and Maxwell had set Zorro up to be like a Disneyland for the girls. And I've just got to tell you too, let me go out to Jo Scott Morgan on this. Joe Scott. I remember one of the first, maybe the first sodomy case, rape and sodomy on a little African American boy. And the perp, he was learning disabled, in fact, on the stand. And I tried to work with him with his mom sitting there with me on the stand. He couldn't really verbalize what happened to. It was really hard. But we got. I just remember the perp's name, Kenneth Cherry. That said he, the little boy loved video games. I may have told you this before, loved video games. So the defendant would hang out at, you know, like an arcade, like, remember Aladdin's Castle or Aladdin's Den or something, would be in malls, something like that. Not necessarily that one, but something like that. And to lure this little boy learning disabled, he would give him rolls of quarters. And when the perp's home was raided, there was child, he was married, had a great white collar job, bringing in a lot of money. Mr. Perfect. Perfect Home, perfect yard, perfect everything. When it was raided, there was child porn and big containers of Vaseline he would use to rape this, to anally rape this little boy. And the boy could hardly talk. And the mom got suspicious when she was cleaning the boy's pants and she found like two crisp $10 bills in his pocket. She went, where did he get this? And he used the video games as a lure point. Virginia Giuffre said that Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell set up Zorro to be like Disneyland for the girls. And then by the time they're in the middle of a rape, everything, they've been there for days, being wined and dined, shopping sprees, horseback riding, a beautiful pool. And there's the quid quo pro on a little girl, a little girl that doesn't know any better.

[Joe Scott Morgan]

It's amazing. These people are such predators that they will bait. They will bait these individuals that are easily manipulated, that are drawn in. They want all of these fantastic things that are being offered to them. They think that they're going to come potentially without a price. And when you're, you're lacking, when you're lacking, maybe emotional maturity, you can't pick up on it and you don't realize that you're in the room with a monster. All of a sudden. And that makes it all the worse. It's not that they necessarily wanted to come back to get more from this individual. Now you've passed the Rubicon at that point in time. Now they're terrified to say anything. They're terrified to say no to this individual. So they wind up giving in many times. And it's a horrible set of circumstances. And, Nancy, when I think about it, a lot of these victims that we're hearing about are in positions of vulnerability. I'm thinking about a lot of the. The victims that they've talked about that may have come from, say, other locations where English is not necessarily their first language. Just imagine. Just imagine that you're being flown in on a private plane. Perhaps you're being brought to a location that's out in the middle of the desert. Not only do you not know where you are, you can't communicate effectively with anybody. I think that with Virginia's case, she actually stated that she was present on the island with two girls in a room during one of these horrible events. And they. English was not their first language. My question has always been, relative to this case, you bring these young women in and say, for instance, are girls and they can't speak English effectively. What happens to them? Do you put them back on a plane and you fly them back to wherever they're from? Do you just cut them loose on the streets? And that's where this really turns dark, because you look at a place like Zorro that is so incredibly vast. Nancy, the best way to put an end to anybody saying anything, perhaps, is to dig a hole in the ground and stick them in there after you have murdered them. And I think that that's a distinct possibility. That's a potential for something that could have happened out there. You know, you have to ask yourself this question. If somebody was willing to go down this dark road sexually, what is the barrier that prevents them from taking the next step, which is eradication of their victim? And I don't think it's a very far journey, Nancy.

[Juliet Bryant]

And I suddenly realized I had to, like, just be nice and be friendly because I realized that I was in great danger. And he's assaulting you and the other women. And they were laughing. Yeah, they saw and they just laughed. I was really, really petrified. And, you know, just. It really changed me, the whole. The whole thing, you know, being going through this, and I just didn't know what to do. And I was. I just really thought that I was going to die.

[Nancy Grace]

From our friends at sky news.

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[Nancy Grace]

Epstein has a baby. That said, what about Ghislaine Maxwell? How is it that she can clam up and sit at Club Fed, running the place, having every perk possible and nothing's happening while we are looking for bodies at Zorro Ranch? And what about the rest of the files? You think we're going to forget about that, Bondi?

[Dave Mack]

We're not.

[Nancy Grace]

To Dave Mack joining us, what can you tell me about Ghislaine Maxwell, who's nothing more than a pimp?

[Dave Mack]

NANCY Ghislaine Maxwell is in prison in Texas and apparently works out every day but doesn't bathe. The other inmates say she is so nasty inside and out that, you know, prison smells bad as it is. And she's the worst. She doesn't wait in line in the chow line, she just buffaloes her way straight through. And you know what, Nancy? The inmates allow it to happen because A, she's nasty. B, the woman has filed 800 complaints in one year against people and things in the prison. She is known throughout the prison to do to get things done by filing complaints and been very effective at it. To one good example is she Ghislaine Maxwell actually taught an etiquette class in prison, then took 12 weeks, one day a week teaching law and how to file things for inmates. Then she actually tried to take advantage of a religious ceremony where the kitchen staff was pouring the grape juice for this particular Jewish ceremony and Ghislaine wanted to pour her own. And the inmate said, you're not coming in the kitchen. I know you don't bathe after you work out. You stink. You surely aren't washing your hands. You're not coming in here. The inmate said within a day, Ghislaine Maxwell was in the kitchen doing her own thing.

[Nancy Grace]

This is DOJ video we've just obtained of her in her cell. Okay, before I go out to our friend, Dr. Duane Hendricks, Dr. Bethany Marshall, explain the stink. Why is it that we hear about, for instance, Hollywood stars and really, really rich people, they don't think they have to bathe.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

This is actually a peculiarity of sociopathy and I'll explain it to you, Nancy, when you are so grandiose that you feel that you are at the center of things, that you're limitless, that everybody looks up to you and admires you, you feel no need to bathe because your such and such doesn't Stink, Right? That's where that phrase comes from. You feel that people will admire you no matter how you look, no matter how you smell, that you are beloved. And that's why it's interesting when I have patients come into my office who are disheveled, poorly dressed, but maybe they're celebrities. I do have it. They. That's one of the tells or the signs of pathological narcissism, because they are not concerned about how other people view them because they believe that they are constantly admired.

[Nancy Grace]

Dr. Dwayne Hendricks. Let me see him. Let me see his beautiful face. Hendricks. Guys, just so you know, former warden, MDC Metropolitan Detention Center, Brooklyn. Also Warden Sheridan, Oregon. Former senior warden, US doj, Federal Bureau of Prisons, founder, President a New Daylight foundation, and author of who Are you? See it, say it, seize it. Why can't she be forced to take a bath?

[Dr. Duane Hendricks]

Well, unfortunately, the fact that she was moved from a secure facility to a much lesser security camp in Texas show. And they broke policy when they did that, showed you the power and influence that she has over the agency. And unfortunately, individuals like her, who, again, who have their. Have the influence to have staff scared and have inmates scared because at the end of the day, if you're an inmate in the camp with her, you don't want to be moved to a secure facility or a jail because you've pissed this. This person off. And typically, inmates kind of police themselves, especially when it comes to sanitation and taking care of yourself, you know, you know why, you know, taking a shower and being clean and all of that. But unfortunately, this individual

[Nancy Grace]

police themselves.

[Dr. Duane Hendricks]

Yes.

[Nancy Grace]

You're expecting murderers and rapists and dope lords to, quote, police themselves so they don't stink.

[Dr. Duane Hendricks]

No, I'm not saying that.

[Nancy Grace]

World are you from.

[Dr. Duane Hendricks]

This is the prison world. At the end of the day, 90% of the time, inmates will say, look, you're not going to be in my cell. You're not going to be in my bunk. You're not going to be in this unit if you're gonna. If you're not gonna take care of business. So. And she surely wouldn't be going in the chow hall skipping lines. I mean, that's. That's disrespect and disrespect in a.

[Nancy Grace]

She is, Hendricks. She is. It's happening. Dave Mack didn't make that up. People from inside the CI Correctional Institute are saying this is happening.

[Dr. Duane Hendricks]

And there are. And the staff are in fear of their jobs. And that is the reason why the fact that they moved her from a Secure facility with more than 10 years on her prison sentence. And they shipped her to a camp. You're not even supposed to be at a camp if you have more than 10 years. And you definitely wouldn't be at a camp if you're serving time for sex trafficking and a pedophile. That would never happen. So the fact that that happened, it put everybody on pause. And it's creating an environment where staff aren't taking care of business and they're not holding inmate, this specific inmate accountable. And she feels like she can go and run around and do all the things that she wants to do. And that's because of the power, influence that she's yielded across this. This nation and across our leadership in government. So.

[Nancy Grace]

And it's unfortunate, Lynn Shaw, you know, that she, Ghislaine Maxwell, knows what happened at Zorro. She knows and she took part in it. And no one is making her talk. She's not being charged with a thing. Nothing.

[Lynn Shaw]

Yeah, I think the question we should be asking is why is she allowed, from what I hear, my sources, to run the camp? And I have a different take. You know, she just is walking around all smelly, by the way. She should just rot in this camp, by the way, just to offend people, because she's ruling the roost from what we hear. And you know what she's promised. Let's ask these questions. What's waiting for her when she gets out? Is she getting a pardon? What's. Why is all of this, And I have to point out this is why sex trafficking victims don't come forward, don't want to talk about anything, because they see stories. I can't even call this a story, a crime spree that's gone on for decades like this. And they say, why bother? Because the power, the wealth, and this woman, a woman doing this to girls and young women, smiling. This is why they don't come forward, because they say, nobody believes us, nobody wants to hear what we have to say. And so Pam Bondi better get these files released, even that. You know what? Again, I'm going to maintain we are never going to see the videos. There's a lot of video we heard about. I don't know where the videos are. More pictures. What's going on here? So you know what? This is such a disservice to sex trafficking victims all over the United States and across the world. But the question is, why is she allowed to run the camp? I'm calling it a camp because we heard she disappears twice a week in a big black SUV and is off for two hours doing something, we don't know what that is and then comes back and nobody opens their mouths. So we should be pressing on. Why is this allowed to happen? What's going on with her? Why? Why? Why? We cannot give up on this story. We have to talk about it. 24 7, 365

[Nancy Grace]

Dave Mack Epstein has a baby.

[Dave Mack]

Believe it or not, Nancy, this is not that uncommon knowledge in his inner circle. Jeffrey Epstein told one of the abusing that he had a baby, a little boy with and he pointed at a picture on the wall of this beautiful, beautiful woman and he called her the perfect woman. The perfect woman who by the way, apparently the mother of his child. He had a clay mold made of her buttocks and has that in his or former mansion in New York City. But Nancy, it's not just a hidden thing here. We're talking about Andrew, the former Duke. He actually told Sarah, his wife at the time and she sent an email congratulating Epstein on the birth of the baby boy. So yes, Epstein has an heir.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, I don't know how that is going to spin out. Who is the child? Does the child know who the father is? Right now I'm more concerned about the bodies that may be uncovered at Zorro Ranch and finding out why. Even though complaints were made official complaints were made as far back as the 90s. Nothing was done. If you know or think you know anything about what occurred on Zorro Ranch, Please dial toll free. 800 Call FBI 800-225-5324 Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye friend.

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