← Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
EVIL STEPMOM LETECIA STAUCH MURDER CONVICTION OVERTURNED, STATE FILES APPEAL
00:41:29
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- [00:00]
Nancy Grace
This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human. This proves evil stepmothers are not just in fairy tales. Evil stepmother Letitia Stock murders her little STEPSON Gannon, just 11 years old. And tonight she set to walk through free. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
- [00:39]
Dr. Jan Gorniak
Gannon stouch was an 11 year old
- [00:41]
Nancy Grace
boy who went missing from Colorado.
- [00:43]
Ann Emerson
His disappearance sparked a nationwide search before
- [00:47]
Nancy Grace
his body was later found in Florida. The blood so copious under this little boy's bed, it seeped through the carpet to underneath. Blood soaked the scene. Yet tonight, Letitia Stock, the evil stepmother personified who shoots a bird at witnesses in court. She is set to walk free. How can this happen, happen? Joining us, an Allstar panel.
- [01:24]
Roderick Drayton
Listen, I watched the video at least 20, 30 times before I took it to a house. Let me make sure, first I watch it on the tablet. I zoom in.
- [01:32]
Dave Mack
I can zoom in.
- [01:33]
Roderick Drayton
I can look. I saw no feet. I can. Then I turned it up. I said, okay, let me back to the volume. She get out, she closed the door, garage door open. She hits the alarm in the dark garage and nobody got out. But then I look at them on, on the TV so I can get a better view. And I put my phone to the TV so I can, you know, get him a better view. And I was like, no, he never, he never got out of the truck. That's when I went over to the doctor's showdown.
- [01:56]
Nancy Grace
It just breaks my heart when I see that particular photo of Gannon lying sideways looking at the camera. If I could see that again with that little snaggle tooth smile he's got going on, just 11 years old, completely defenseless. You were just hearing the neighbor, Roderick Drayton, who spotted on his own home surveillance video Gannon getting into the car with the evil stepmother and never getting out. Straight out to Ann Emerson, joining a senior investigative reporter for criminally obsessed. That's on YouTube. Also host of the award winning podcast Unsolved South. The Murdoch Mysteries. Money and the Murdoch Murders. Money and mystery. And thank you for being with us tonight. How critical is the video we just
- [02:52]
Ann Emerson
played earlier on in the investigation? You see this video of the mom, the stepmom, Letitia leaving with Gannon. And then when the truck comes back, the, the child's nowhere to be seen. And that's what really, really concerned investigators at the very get go of this. And you know, when they, as soon as they saw the surveillance, they knew something was not right. But the, but the questions and the mystery surrounding it just got much worse after this.
- [03:23]
Family Member or Friend
I'm just ready for Gannon to come home. Most importantly for him to see his family. But second, I am going to be so ecstatic when I'm able to say to people that I hope they have a really sincere apology for all these theories that have came out online for all the things they said that I
- [03:39]
Nancy Grace
have done that for my friends at a N E. That is stepmother Letitia Stout who was convicted by a jury but in its wisdom an appellate court has reversed the conviction. She is set to walk free. Out to crime stories, investigative reporter Dave Mack. Dave, what is the state's theory as to what happened to 11 year old Gannon Stauch?
- [04:09]
Dave Mack
The state believes that after being abused by Letitia Stauch for a long time, she shot him to death, stabbed him and beat him. He suffered blunt force trauma. Then Letitia Stauch. But Gannon's remains in a suitcase and drove to Florida where she tossed the suitcase with 11 year old Gannon stock in the suitcase over a bridge 1300 miles away from home. Blood found underneath Gannon's bed. Blood found on light sockets on the wall, on the carpet. More than 50 droplets of blood. Police were able to identify and confirm that it was Gannon's blood. They also were able to confirm that cleaning products, baking soda were used to to clean up the blood. But forensics were still able to pick it up from that trail in Gannon's room and actually goes through all throughout the house leading up to the garage.
- [05:10]
Nancy Grace
We are showing you crime scene photos and that's our friends from KRDO joining us on Crime Stories. More than 50 areas of blood police could identify. It was all little Gannon's blood. They also confirmed cleaning products plus baking soda were dumped on the carpet and good gravy were dumped on the carpet and beyond to try and clean up the blood. But that was no match for high tech forensics that could pick up a blood trail that went from the little boy's room all the way through the house leading to the garage. Joining us is a renowned medical examiner, former medical examiner in Clark county, the office of the coroner, that's Vegas board certified forensic pathologist, founder of World Peace Forensic Consulting, Dr. Jan Gorniak. Dr. Gorniak, thank you for being with us tonight. Dr. Gorniak, what type of injury would cause that copious amount of blood?
- [06:21]
Dr. Jan Gorniak
Oh well hearing that he not only had blunt force trauma, he was stabbed, he was shot. So any all of those could cause all that blood depending on the Injuries to his head, blunt force trauma. Was he hit with an object where the skin is split, meaning gets a laceration and then the blood is spattering all over the place. He could be stabbed. Once again, depending where he stabbed, could it have gotten an artery in his neck? Was his, you know, stabbing, you think like stab, stab, Right. But could it be an incised wound of his neck and gets arteries, the main arteries, the carotids, where it's gonna be spurting out blood. Or a gunshot wound of the head? I'm looking at that crime scene photo where you see the tape appears marking blood spatter and it's low down. So he could have been on the floor and got shot. And that blood is battering that way. But there's a lot of blood, like you said, throughout the room and then leading out. So one or all those mechanisms of injury could have caused that blood. It'd be interesting to see if there's anything on the ceiling, you know, and then you can see if he was getting hit about his head more than one time. But unfortunately, little Gannon, you know, obviously he's deceased, but it wasn't a quick death he suffered.
- [07:48]
Nancy Grace
This little boy, just 11 year old Gannon, according to the autopsy report, died of a combination of a gunshot wound, blunt force head trauma and multiple sharp force injuries. He suffered 18 sharp force injuries, four blunt force injury, lacerations, defensive wounds on both hands. The COD cause of death, gunshot to this little boy's chin and lower jaw. The bullet lodged in his neck. There was a blunt force trauma to the little boy's head. The sharp force injuries, stabs or cuts were on his chest, his hands, his arms, his shoulder, his back. Sharp force stabs or cuts on his hands and fingers were defensive wounds. The blunt force injuries included a fractured left six rib and skull damage. Also toxicology reports hydrocodone and acetaminophen in his system. Very unusual for a child. According to the medical examiner at the time his body was found, he was crammed into a suitcase and decomposing. That is straight from the medical examiner's autopsy report back to renowned pathologist Dr. Jan Gorniak. What do you make of the autopsy report on this 11 year old little boy?
- [09:30]
Dr. Jan Gorniak
One of my, my heart goes out not only to Gavin and his family, but also to the pathologist who had to perform this, this autopsy. It's interesting how they can determine that the gunshot wound came last. Right. And so when you're talking about defensive type wounds on his hands, that happens when obviously someone is coming at you With a sharp force instrument like a knife and people are grabbing at it. Those are the worst, those, those type of injuries give me the willies because, you know, someone's grabbing the knife and it's being pulled out and just the injuries to their, their hands or to their forearms, they're bringing their arms up to, to fend off something. So with defensive type wounds, obviously not only was he alive, he was alert enough. So the gunshot wound didn't, didn't happen. It's the gunshot wound to, it says to his chin. That's an unusual spot. Usually when you, you see that you, you see in a, in a suicide. So that it seemed like it had to be a close range wound to get up right up into his face. The blunt force injuries, he's had four separate to his head and then the hydrocodone and acetaminophen. And I think that is commonly. So acetaminophen is Tylenol and that comes in, I think it's called Darva set. So that's a combination. So in order for him to have that in his system, I don't believe he took it himself unless he was prescribed it. He had pain for some other reason, but I don't think they usually prescribe Percocet or Darbicit to children. So he was given that to ingest some sort of way. Either he had to take it himself forcefully or it was mixed in with some food or drink. But I'm just not understanding the severity and the amount of injuries to little Gavin. What I can't comprehend, you know, abuse in, in the beginning. But what, and he doesn't deserve this, but what was going through this lady's mind or what could he have possibly done to anger her so much? I, I'm just, I must have a loss of words.
- [11:54]
Nancy Grace
Well, you know, it's interesting, Dr. Jan Gorniak. It seems as if Gannon was murdered many times over. He was stabbed brutally, 14 stab wounds. He was beaten horribly, including to the head. Blunt force trauma to the head, a broken rib, skull fracture. And he was shot. This 11 year old little, little boy, little frame, murdered three times over. Explain.
- [12:36]
Dr. Jan Gorniak
He's tortured. I mean, that's the only word that it's coming to my mind right now. It wasn't a lack of a better term, a straight shooting that was the end, but what he had to endure before. I would just say the little boy was tortured.
- [12:53]
Nancy Grace
Joining us tonight, an all star panel as Letitia Stock is set to walk free after an appellate court reverses her Conviction, you know, straight out to special guest joining us, Dr. Leslie Dobson, clinical forensic psychologist, host of a hit podcast. Intentionally disturbing. Dr. Dobson. The idea of murdering an 11 year old child multiple times over, overkill in the literal sense of the word, is extremely disturbing. And yet apparently Letitia Stock carried on as if nothing had happened and actually attacked people online who were accusing her.
- [13:42]
Dr. Leslie Dobson
Definitely. I mean, they wanted to do disassociative identity disorder, borderline malingering, but this is straight up psychopathy. This woman is a psychopath.
- [13:53]
Nancy Grace
Dr. Leslie Dobson, you mentioned malingering and some other sorts of mental ailments. Are you saying the defense brought up these ailments at trial?
- [14:07]
Dr. Leslie Dobson
Correct. And the prosecution, they both had forensic psychologists do an abundance of testing that looked at malingering, feigning, straight up lying. And what the prosecution found was that she was lying. She was inconsistent, infrequent. Her symptoms didn't match up with what she described. How she was presented before the murder, after. How she presented, even in jail, was different than what she described. And throughout all of this testing, it showed that she was lying. She wanted to look like she had disassociated identity disorder. Nothing like that was in her history. And more so, she's likely borderline and a psychopath and was overwhelmed with this kid. They had a history of fighting. She decided to kill him, try to cover her tracks, no remorse.
- [14:53]
Nancy Grace
What exactly is the psychological definition of a psychopath?
- [15:01]
Dr. Leslie Dobson
Psychopath is a narcissistic individual who is also antisocial. Antisocial personality disorder. So somebody who has no remorse, doesn't care. They need extra layers of stimulation. They're very charismatic. But also they're reckless, destructive liars.
- [15:18]
Nancy Grace
So would that explain how after Gannon is murdered at least three times over, he's stabbed, he's beaten, he's shot, and he was administered codon. A type of codon that children normally don't get. So I guess that's four times over that. She carried on as if nothing had happened.
- [15:41]
Dr. Leslie Dobson
In a sense, you could say she was getting her rocks off. She was stimulated. She enjoyed harming this child. And then she planned a way to get rid of this child and live her life. And then she was stimulated by the arguments online and people coming at her. She was stimulated in the courtroom.
- [15:59]
Nancy Grace
What do you mean in the courtroom?
- [16:01]
Dr. Leslie Dobson
She was mouthy, she was inappropriate, she was overall acting up. Not like somebody who was disassociating. It was somebody who was pissed off that she got caught.
- [16:11]
Dave Mack
Ms. Stauch, what you need to understand is that I can Control the conduct of an awful lot of people in the courtroom, including yours, and don't do that. Don't show that kind of, don't be making disrespectful gestures to witnesses, to people, to family members, anything like that. You need to understand that if that continues, I can have you removed and the trial will continue without you.
- [16:39]
Nancy Grace
Well, Dr. Dobson, you could not have been more correct. That was the judge reprimanding the defendant, Letitia Stout, in court for the inappropriate behavior that you describe as her getting her rocks off in court. And this is what the judge was upset about. That is the defendant shooting a bird. From our Friends at Law and Crime in Court, straight out to Ann Emerson joining us, senior investigative reporter, criminally obsessed. Ann, what happened?
- [17:14]
Ann Emerson
Well, she was, she was flipping the bird at the, at the witnesses and people that were part of the family, of the Stock family. It was so disrespectful. And it really feeds into the narrative possibly that she was trying to get across that, you know, she was, she had an insanity plea going with her defense. This was possibly part of her sort of acting the part even more. But it really just came across as is so horrific and so disturbing for these family members. I mean, it is, this is the ultimate betrayal of a stepmother, a caregiver who could possibly do something like this to a small child under her care while the, while the dad is gone on, on military service. I mean, it just, the whole thing was so horrific, I think, for the family to see in court that the judge had to try and control her. If this was part of the defense, on any level of her own defense, trying to show that she was indeed insane. Yes, it was insane behavior, but it doesn't mean that she is insane, means that she was manipulative to Franz Borghardt.
- [18:29]
Nancy Grace
Joining us, criminal defense attorney, founder of the Borghardt law firm, former prosecutor Borghardt, not a good look for your client, right? When your client shoots birds at the witnesses and at the little boy victim's family.
- [18:46]
Franz Burghardt
I know there's been conjecture that she's malingering, but that certainly seems like the behavior of someone with a serious mental health issue. And maybe she's not malingering, Nancy, and that's the defense is her disruptive behavior is consistent with her mental health issues. And that's what you run with.
- [19:03]
Nancy Grace
She shot a bird, Borghardt. She shot a bird. That is not a mental illness. And just think about it.
- [19:12]
Investigator or Reporter
You know what?
- [19:13]
Nancy Grace
I would have a field day with that. Because if she will do that in a court of law at Witnesses under oath with a judge sitting right there. If she will do that in open court, what would she do to this child behind closed doors? A child she hated. A child she resented because he belonged to another woman. Reminding her that her husband had sex with another woman. Woman once loved a woman, not her. And this was the physical manifestation of that love. She hated him.
- [19:49]
Franz Burghardt
So, look, if you're. You're with a client like that who is not going to control themselves, as a defense attorney, I don't want her in the courtroom either. Yes, the jury is not going to like it, but it's better for my defense that she's not in the behavior in the courtroom, behaving by flipping off the bird. So candidly for a defense attorney, best thing in the world, her getting booted out of the courtroom.
- [20:12]
Nancy Grace
Straight out to veteran homicide detective Chris McDonough, director of the Cold Case foundation and star of the interview room on YouTube. Chris McDonough. She's not mentally ill. She's just hell on wheels. Simple.
- [20:29]
Chris McDonough
Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. I mean, let's think about this, right? She not only shot the bird, she shot a child. And, you know, if I can help you, the audience, with her identity, I mean, she's the devil. And whenever you have an angel, a child sleeping in their own bed, the most protected area of this child's world, and then you have the devil show up to not only stab you, beat you, shoot you, and then we're ended up talking about her behavior in the courtroom. Dr. Dobson's right on target here. These people are beyond recovery.
- [21:12]
Investigator or Reporter
Put.
- [21:12]
Nancy Grace
Put him up, please. Why are you talking about Letitia Stock's recovery? I don't care about her recovery. I just want her to be under the jail instead of poised to walk free. And appellate court just reversed her conviction. One more boo boo, and she's walking free.
- [21:36]
Chris McDonough
No, I totally agree. And this is the worst case scenario for not only this child's family, but the investigators, the attorneys, everybody that worked so hard to get her off the streets.
- [21:50]
Nancy Grace
Speaking of the devil and his imp appears. Watch.
- [21:54]
Family Member or Friend
He was always so helpful with the dogs around the house. And we have two little cute dogs. And he was always like a person. I could say, gannon, can you go do this? And he would do it right away. You know, sometimes with kids, we have to remind him and things like that, and that's okay. But he was so sweet.
- [22:08]
Nancy Grace
He was. He was. That is evil stepmom Letitia Stock. While the search for Gannon was ongoing. That's from our friends at A and E. Wait A minute. Franz Burkhardt, veteran defense attorney. Why is she already talking about him in the past tense? Was, was, was. Why is she saying that? What do you do with that when that's played in front of the jury?
- [22:36]
Franz Burghardt
You have to say that she believed that he was dead at that point and that she wasn't the murderer, but that that was her heart of hearts. Based on the evidence that was found at the crime scene.
- [22:45]
Nancy Grace
You mean based on the blood found under her bed. That statement that she just made to the reporter was before the blood was found under the bed. So how do you get around that? She's already talking about her stepson in the past tense. No, seriously, what do you do with that in court, in front of a jury who's eyeballing you.
- [23:10]
Franz Burghardt
So in that kind of a situation, I think you have to just double down on the fact that she didn't kill him, but that she believes he's dead and that she is just trying to get justice.
- [23:21]
Nancy Grace
Okay, put him up, please. Did I just hear you say that Letitia Stock is, quote, just trying to get justice? You could say that to injury. You could get that out of your
- [23:31]
Franz Burghardt
mouth for the true murderer who committed the crime. I mean, Nancy, you're asking me to paint the Sistine Chapel with crayons. I'm doing the best I can.
- [23:41]
Nancy Grace
Ann Emerson, joining us, investigative reporter, senior investigative reporter with Criminally Obsessed. And I'd like to go through a few of Letitia Stock's Google searches. Control room, could you please put them up on the screen Now? Bear in mind, her conviction has just been reversed. Find me a new husband book. I feel like I'm just a nanny, not a stepmom. Husband uses me to babysit his kids. Are there any free money to move away from bad situation? My husband never post about me, but does everything else. My husband only cleans up for the army, not me. I'm a glorified babysitter. Find a new husband. Sent my husband sex messages. He ignores them. Gee, I wonder why. Because you're evil. Make my husband want me more. I can't. I'm sure he wanted you as far away from him as possible. I feel like my husband uses me to babysit his kid. And find a guy without kids. Find a guy without kids. She couldn't wait to get rid of Gannon. And what about these searches? Did the jury hear these searches? Did the appellate court not read the trial transcript?
- [25:08]
Ann Emerson
There's no doubt that the this evidence was just exactly what needed to happen in order for her to be you know, put in, put in prison, throw away the key. I mean there's, there's nothing you can say about these Google searches that, that does not point to, to clear evidence that she was them actually planning this. This was she was trying to figure out ways to, to get rid of, you know, Gannon. All of this points to it.
- [25:35]
Nancy Grace
How did 11 year old Gannon stock go missing?
- [25:40]
Investigator or Reporter
Gannon south the 11 year old disappeared from his father's home. He lived there with his father and his stepmother just in a little suburb outside of Colorado Springs. The stepmom says that he was not in don't have a clear answer why. We she said we've heard a couple of things. One that he was sick and the one that he had a doctor's appointment. So he had stayed home that day. He was reported missing after he had left the house. He was wearing a blue jacket and sneakers and jeans. He said he was going to go see a friend. It was on the afternoon around 3:30. They think that he told his stepmom he's going to go out and see a friend. And that was the last time we saw Gannon Stouch.
- [26:22]
Nancy Grace
Joining us, crime Stories investigative reporter Dave Mack. DAVE Muddy Murky, unclear to say the least. We've got the stepmother Letitia Stock saying that he was ill, that he had a doctor's appointment, he disappeared from his father's home, but that he went to go see friends with a blue jacket, sneakers and jeans on. So what was her final story she told about the last time Gannon was seen alive?
- [26:54]
Dave Mack
The last story that Letitia Stout told was that he was going to a friend's house, that he was walking through the neighborhood on his way to play.
- [27:04]
Nancy Grace
DAVE MACK that is in direct conflict with the video that the neighbor saw and immediately knew something was horribly wrong. He sees the evil stepmother Letitia Stock getting into the vehicle with 11 year old Gannon and Gannon is never seen getting out of the vehicle. That is not him walking around the neighborhood to go play. That is him getting into the vehicle with her. He also stated that Gannon could hardly walk at the time, that he seemed to be dizzy and unsteady on his feet. What can you tell me about that?
- [27:44]
Dave Mack
DAVE MACK well, yeah, Nancy, it's it actually goes back to earlier. We're talking about what was found in Gannon's bloodstream. The hydrocodone with acetaminophen or lorasat, something like that would have made Gannon loopy. It would have made him very groggy. Actually it would have made it so that he could be. I hate to say this out loud, Nancy, but it makes it so that he'd be a much easier child to kill if he was that groggy. Now we're talking about the last time anyone other than Leticia Stout actually saw Gannon. And the description of an 11 year old boy walking like that is shocking in and of itself, Nancy. But what we know now is that Leticia Stout told stories that were able to be proved lies with video. The neighbor actually really did save the day if you remember. It didn't happen right away. It took a couple of days. He watched it on his own and saw this and called FBI called everybody, said, hey, come and take a look. So we really have right here in the palm of our hand the murderer and the victim. And the victim is already out of it as he gets in the vehicle. The last time he's seen alive.
- [29:03]
Nancy Grace
And the location of where his remains are found is mind boggling.
- [29:12]
Investigator or Reporter
Search crews scouring all over Colorado for weeks and weeks on end. And then we hear Florida. You know, we did the math. We were calculating how far away it was from here from Myrtle beach where she was arrested. It's just mind blowing. A road construction crew was working in the area right near a bridge, Escambia river bridge on Highway 90. And that's where they found Gannon's body.
- [29:41]
Nancy Grace
To Ann Emerson joining us. Ann, explain how his body was found stuffed in a suitcase far, far away from home.
- [29:53]
Ann Emerson
The whole thing, the more that I read about it, the, the more disturbing it is, Nancy. I mean not only that, like she had to get this suitcase out of her home shape. From, from the reports that we've read, her brother was with her when she was. She had said she no longer could be with the father after Gannon had disappeared. She no longer wanted to be with her husband Al stalk. So she decides she's going to take off in the car. She even gets her brother to come with her to, to, to help get her out of the house. They get this suitcase out of the house. He has no idea what's in this suitcase. He has no idea what could possibly be in this suitcase. And then we get a report that this suitcase is found on, underneath a bridge in Florida where she has gone to dump the body of Gannon, which is so disturbing. And it's a, I think it was a Florida Department of Transportation construction worker. This, this suitcase must have been dumped over a bridge. And they open it up and it's the, the remains of this dear child and the. The idea that she actually traveled in a car for thousands of miles to get to this place and then takes off to Myrtle beach is. It's. It's really one of the most disturbing things I've ever heard, you know, and also really speaks to her determination to keep on running with this story that her. Her true determination to take this body this far. It's one of the most incredible cases I've ever heard. Seriously, Nancy, I've never heard anything that
- [31:38]
Nancy Grace
was a large green suitcase that came from her home like the big ones. You have to check. At the airport, a construction crew locates this little boy's decomposing remains in a suitcase under a bridge in Pace, Florida. The bridge runs over Escambia river there in Pace. The little boy's body was disposed of in that area shortly, very shortly after he's reporting reported missing. Now, we know that the evil stepmother, Letitia Stock, drove from Colorado to Florida over 1300 miles to hide the body. And in fact, shortly after his body is disposed of under that bridge, she is arrested not too far away in Myrtle Beach. That's a long way to travel with a dead body in your car. All the way down to the Florida Panhandle, straight back out to renowned medical examiner, Dr. Jan Gorniak. Dr. Gorniak, the body was already decomposed in that suitcase. How do you believe it was identified as being Gannon?
- [33:08]
Dr. Jan Gorniak
Well, there's different stages of decomposition. So, yes, he's in a suitcase, he has all these injuries. So it takes about 36 hours. Ish. For you to really start to see some real decomposition. And not to sound silly, but one of the things that probably preserved his body so he could be identified easily was because he was in that suitcase. Had he been thrown over that bridge, exposed to water, exposed to animals scavenging, then that would have been a lot worse. But then also remember, if he was decomposed enough where he couldn't be identified, they knew enough to arrest her, try to put it together with this missing child. And they had blood samples from back in the house which they knew was his. So it possibly could have been DNA. It could have been dental records. Once they had a tentative ID on who he was, then he could have been positively ID through DNA or dental.
- [34:13]
Nancy Grace
Dave Mack, joining us, Crime Stories investigative reporter. She entered a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity, which essentially means I did it, but I was insane at the time. Isn't it true, Dave Mack, that a recording of her admitting to murdering Gannon was played in front Of. Of the jury.
- [34:40]
Dave Mack
It was Nancy. It was played in the final days of the trial, this recording that the jury was able to hear Leticia confessing to fatally shooting Gannon while the forensic psychologist was examining her as part of that insanity defense. So the jury heard the whole thing, and they saw, you know, they could take. Tell what was going on in the room, how questions were answered. And then when they went in to deliberate, Nancy, they made a firm decision that she's not insane. This is not insanity. You're not getting away with this. And they convicted her right after that.
- [35:19]
Nancy Grace
Straight out to Dr. Leslie Dobson. Joining us, clinical forensic psychologist. What rises to legal insanity.
- [35:30]
Dr. Leslie Dobson
She knew that she was wrong. We have proof that she planned this action, that she knew it was going on, and that she tried to cover the action after she murdered this child. So we have. We have certainty now that she is not insane at the time of the crime.
- [35:49]
Nancy Grace
Legal insanity is judged by what we call the old McNaughton test. It is a litmus test brought over from English common law to our country. There you see her at the El Paso Sheriff's Office. Do you think she looks like she's insane? Yes. I know we are all lay people and not psychologists or psychiatrists, but look at her actions. Look how she is behaving. Legal insanity is that you did not know right from wrong at the time of the. The incident. That is what legal insanity is. The fact that she covered up the crime, put the body in a suitcase, drove over a thousand miles to dispose of it under a bridge, let it decompose near a river bank. That indicates knowledge of guilt, which means she did know what she did was wrong at the time of the incident. That was the argument to the jury, to Dave Mack. The jury also heard one of her last conversations with her husband where she was adamantly denying anything to do with Gannon's disappearance. So we know she has the ability to lie, the cunning, the wherewithal. But didn't she also come up with some crazy rape story?
- [37:15]
Dave Mack
Oh, my gosh, yes, Nancy.
- [37:17]
Dr. Jan Gorniak
She.
- [37:17]
Dave Mack
He actually claimed that she was raped by a Hispanic man. And after she was raped, they. The Hispanic male took off with Gannon, kidnapped him. That was her story. Well, one of them.
- [37:33]
Nancy Grace
To Franz Burkhardt joining us, criminal defense attorney joining us out of Baton Rouge. Franz, it is a bitter pill to swallow that this case, this conviction is reversed. Explain why.
- [37:51]
Franz Burghardt
During the jury selection process, one of the potential jurors disclosed a relationship to the DA's office. The Defense attorney did what we call a motion For a challenge for cause, Nancy. Which was denied by the judge, that basically he was arguing that there was a legal defect in letting that juror on or that individual on. Ultimately, the judge said, you can use what we call one of your peremptory exceptions or challenges. And the higher court said, you know what? You have a right to a constitutionally unbiased jury. And the judge violated that right by requiring the defense team to utilize a challenge, whereas he should have just granted the cause challenge. And so it's reversed for a new trial.
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Investigator or Reporter
You know what?
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Nancy Grace
Franz Burkhardt. I blame them all. I blame the judge. I blame the prosecutor. And that is, as I said, a bitter pill for me as a former prosecutor. You absolutely cannot see a juror that is related to a prosecutor in the office that is prosecuting this case. It doesn't matter if it's by blood or by marriage. It doesn't matter. That is a peremptory strike. What is a peremptory? That's a strike for cause. Okay? A strike for cause means that, for instance, you are related to the defendant. The defense doesn't have to use one of their strikes to strike you. If you're related to the defendant, under the law, you are not fit to sit on the jury. If you are related to a prosecutor, you are not fit under the law to sit on the jury. There's reams of precedent on that. The prosecutor should not have allowed it. The judge should not have allowed it. And here we are tonight wondering, will Letitia Stock walk free? Was it worth it? It's never worth it to get a trial advantage that's going to result in a reversal. Horrible decision. The devil is set to walk free because of one trial error. And when I say error, that's really putting perfume on the pig. This was a intentional decision by the prosecutor to disallow a strike for cause. They should have joined the defense in that motion to save, hold the conviction. The last thing I want to do is go through all the effort, the blood, the sweat and the tears to try a murder case knowing there is reversible error. I can't believe this has happened. But here we are, and we wait as justice unfolds. And now we remember an American hero. Detective Valerie Jacobs, nycpd, died in the line of duty, leaving behind her grieving son, Anthony. American hero, Detective Valerie Jacobs. Thank you to our guests for being with us, but especially to you for joining us tonight as we seek justice for Gannon Stock. Nancy Grace signing off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then. Good night, friend. This is an I heart podcast, Guaranteed human.