← Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
FBI: CHARLIE KIRK CONSPIRACY THEORIES LEGIT? SUSPECT’S 'MALE LOVER' EYED
00:47:25
Loading summary
Transcript169 lines
- [00:00]
A
This is an iheart podcast.
- [00:05]
B
Straight arrow news find facts and context you've been craving quickly find trusted information you need to understand the news watch what you want when you want catch up on the news at home or on the go with your own news queue dive deep into the topics that matter to.
- [00:20]
C
You and the world around you navigate.
- [00:22]
B
Everything you need to know about the topics shaping your world understand how every side of the political spectrum is reporting.
- [00:28]
C
On a story so you get a.
- [00:30]
A
Full picture of the news the welcome.
- [00:32]
B
Back to trustworthy journalism s a n.
- [00:34]
C
Dot com this episode is brought to you by uber eats facing a beauty.
- [00:38]
A
Emergency need a last minute gift well.
- [00:40]
C
Don'T panic sephora is now available for delivery on uber eats you can now.
- [00:44]
A
Get all your beauty essentials delivered in as little as twenty five minutes for the same price as in store plus.
- [00:50]
C
Treat yourself to dollar ten off when you spend dollar fifty or more on your first sephora order on the uber.
- [00:55]
A
Eats app order sephora on uber eats.
- [00:57]
C
Today offer ends october thirtieth one order per customer additional terms apply seat for availability delivery fees may goodbye stop settling.
- [01:05]
A
For weak sound it's time to level.
- [01:07]
B
Up your game and bring the boom.
- [01:09]
A
Hit the town with the ultra durable lg x boom portable speaker and enjoy.
- [01:13]
B
Vibrant sound wherever you go elevate your.
- [01:16]
A
Listening experience to new heights because let's.
- [01:19]
B
Be real your music deserves it the future of sound is now with lg.
- [01:23]
A
Xboom and for a limited time save twenty five percent at lg dot com.
- [01:28]
D
With code fall twenty five bring the.
- [01:30]
B
Boom x boom.
- [01:35]
A
Crime stories with nancy grace the fbi says the charlie kirk conspiracy theories are legit that's the first time we've ever heard that from the government think about it jfk ufo's it goes on and on and on but tonight cash patel says he is actually investigating the many many concern conspiracy theories surrounding the murder of charlie kirk this as the suspect's male lover is eyed i'm nancy grace this is crime stories i want to thank you for being.
- [02:16]
B
With us less than two weeks ago our country was robbed of one of the brightest lights of our times my.
- [02:24]
A
Husband charlie he wanted to save.
- [02:32]
B
Young.
- [02:33]
A
Men just like the one who took his life kirk's wife erica wowing the crowd and sending a message like no other this as kash patel the director of the fbi is literally chasing down.
- [02:53]
B
Conspiracy theories listen fbi director patel now investigating conspiracy theories about charlie kirk's murder patel was able to dismiss a theory a pilot was involved because they turned off their transponder moments after the shooting but says others could be credible they include theories about accomplices authenticity of the text conversation between robinson and his roommate the bullet's trajectory and even why kirk who normally wears black was clad in white that day you know i've never.
- [03:24]
A
Heard the government even acknowledge conspiracy theories much less state that they will be investigated with me an all star panel to make sense of what we are learning tonight in the charlie kirk shooting straight out to victoria churchill joining us from washington us political reporter dailymail dot com victoria what is patel saying i think director patel is saying that he wants to explore everything and anything connected to this but this should come as no surprise because patel considered kirk a close friend a ally in the maga movement and the greeter conservative movement but i also do want to point out that director patel and the fbi as a whole maybe have not necessarily been at the forefront of this investigation despite what they have said because of course robinson was turned in by his own father hold on little lady whoa they had the suspect in custody within thirty three hours take a look at your crime stats that rarely happens so you know a lot was made victoria churchill the arrest of two individuals one claiming i did it of course they arrested him he was cleared then another so explain to me your reasoning so the first individual is somebody who i have heard from people that have actually been active in utah politics conservative politics in particular in utah this is somebody that is a known agitator and so i think there was no surprise that he was there but he also went in for questioning but again this is somebody that didn't like conservatives so maybe he wanted to claim for some crazy reason i don't know why he would want to do this but he possibly wanted to claim responsibility for this but again robinson was turned in by his own father so at least at this point we don't know how close the fbi would have been to finding him if he was not submitted by his own father to the authorities guys conspiracy theories as they are being called are now being taken as legitimate avenues of investigation starting with a lot of hand signals.
- [05:38]
C
Listen eagle eyed internet sleuth zeroed in on the behavior of kirk's attendance just before he was shot a man standing six feet from kirk in a white shirt and white baseball cap is seen recording the debate on his phone seconds before the shot that man tips his cap then wipes his nose a second man in a black shirt glances at the man as he adjusts his white cap then touches his right arm before folding his arms many theorize the hand signals were indications to the shooter okay.
- [06:09]
A
That was investigated and this is what we found listen the man in the.
- [06:15]
B
White hat was was giving signals to the shooter yeah the man in the white hat was me okay i did this with my hat maybe i touched my nose or something while i'm holding my phone because i'm facetiming my son and daughter in law charlie kirk was literally like a son to me i have three sons he was like my fourth son my three sons are a little bit older than charlie he was like my fourth son so when he was hit if your son got hit what would you do what would you.
- [06:48]
D
Do.
- [06:53]
B
Charlie wasn't there his eyes were fixed he wasn't looking at me he was looking past me right into eternity he was with jesus already.
- [07:05]
A
That is my friends over at cross examined the podcast and speaking is frank tourek let's see that video again he is the guy wearing the hat who is making hand signals just before kirk is murdered just before and you see the other guy in the blue navy or black t shirt you know he's making movements as well so you know straight out to franz borghardt joining us founder of borgart law firm former prosecutor professor louisiana state university franz thank you for being with us you know what so one theory shot down pretty quickly and that bodes ill for the others but they've got to be investigated have you ever had a crazy theory pop up in the middle of a trial or during trial prep for instance like a false confession you have to chase it down.
- [08:08]
B
So as a defense attorney i love crazy theories nancy because it creates chaos and it gives me something to work with especially in cases where it's an open and shut like this one we we know who shot kurt we know who we got the right guy right and we can claim that these individuals behind him are making hand gestures doing the macarena whatever but conspiracy doesn't change the facts and yeah you're absolutely right they have to vet it they have to investigate it i just don't like the head of the fbi making tweets about because again it's giving fuel to.
- [08:41]
A
The absurd okay wait let me understand this franz borghardt doesn't like the director of the fbi's tweets oh okay you and about half the nation do you think he cares that franz borgart or anybody doesn't like his tweets what's wrong with his tweets he's just putting it out there we're used to so much secrecy within the government so what's your.
- [09:07]
B
Problem he can tweet all he wants the problem is does he have an active knowledge of the investigation and if he doesn't his tweets create defenses so as someone in the criminal justice system i only want people making informational exchanges that have active fingers on the pulse of the investigation and heaven forbid he's just making a tweet about conspiracies and he doesn't really have and look the head of agencies don't always have their.
- [09:33]
A
Fingers on the pulse franz we don't know what he knows or doesn't know okay he may know i'm willing to guess he knows more about the kirk investigation than we do however cardinal rule number one from the elected district attorney who i worked for who was i believe the greatest elected district attorney in the country served thirty seven years the longest at that time don't speak to the press it's not that the press are a multi headed hydra it's that you commit yourself to a theory you put it out there and that could change you only hurt your case so from me and you to patel shut your pie hole right now these leads may in fact be legitimate we don't know that yet but this hand signal thing that was all bs technical legal term okay let's move on to the next one and it has to do with the trajectory angle listen online sleuths.
- [10:37]
B
Are also hung up on the bullet's trajectory since clear video of the shooting is still widely available online many believe kirk was wearing a bulletproof vest and the bullet fractured against the vest sending a fragment into his neck others believe the shot ricocheted off the turning point banner behind him and what was caught on camera was the bullet exiting from the front of his neck in an emotional tribute at his memorial erica kirk said doctors told her if charlie had been shot in an operating room it wouldn't have made a difference claiming kirk was gone instantaneously you know i used.
- [11:09]
A
To tell myself the same type of thing after my fiance was murdered he didn't feel it he didn't know what happened if he had been shot in the hospital it wouldn't have made a difference i don't know that any of that's true now can we talk about this kirk wearing a bulletproof vest there's no evidence of that at all but regarding the ex wound we stated at the get go to joe scott morgan joining us professor forensics jacksonville state university author of blood beneath my feet on amazon star of a hit podcast series body bags with jo scott morgan for my purposes a death investigator with over one thousand death scenes under his belt all sorts accidental natural causes undetermined suicide and of course homicide joe scott day one we knew or had surmised there was no exit wound there's no conspiracy.
- [12:08]
D
To that no there's not and if that is the idea here just follow my logic you're going to have to get the surgeon who attended him at the emergency room at the hospital where he was evacuated to and you're also going to have to get the state medical examiner's office the forensic pathologist that was involved in this case to get on board also relative to all this what we're hearing right now is that this is a single gunshot wound to the neck and that the round was actually found beneath the skin i don't know why this is such a mystery i don't know why people say that this is an empirical impossibility nancy i've handled a lot of gunshot wounds involving high velocity rounds where the bullet does not completely exit the body it just doesn't happen every single time so everybody out there hold on just a second.
- [13:07]
A
The i would say the majority of homicide cases i have investigated or prosecuted have at least one bullet still in the body so i don't understand the uproar about the fact that his bullet lodged in his neck how first of all how could it have lodged in the neck it for me it's sop standard operating procedure that at least one bullet stays in the body and i'm glad i mean if you can make a silver lining out of a murder i'm glad the bullet was retrieved from the body because the next thing we would know would the big conspiracy theory that that's not the real bullet you found on the ground that's not it.
- [13:48]
D
That was placed even if it's fragmented if you have the base of the round you can take that base of the round and do the testing based upon the rifle that they did in fact recover and look if it doesn't match up fine and good go look for another rifle out there but if the rifling on this round that was recovered at autopsy which would have been at the utah state medical examiner's office which let me reinforce again is a fine organization and are now being accused by people online as being part of a grander conspiracy if that round was recovered at autopsy it'll be compared ballistically it'll be compared either at the state crime lab in utah or it'll be compared at quantico with the fbi's resources that they have there we still don't even have an autopsy report yet let me tell you another bit of reporting that will come out also there will be surgical notes so if people have questions about this this random surgeon that was on duty he will write up a report based upon what he saw in his examination of charlie kirk at that moment immediately after this had happened he will talk about this in great detail those records will be with the state medical examiner they would have reviewed them they will give their own opinion about this and i can tell you there was more than one forensic pathologist in that room while his examination would have been done there would have been multiple eyes on this case joining us.
- [15:18]
A
Shortly a ballistics expert to show us and explain to us all about the weapon the mauser that was used to kill charlie kirk and the bizarre engravings on the bullet and exactly how this shot could have gone down without a conspiracy a group of people helping the shooter is it rational don't know we'll hear from koa lorimore in just one moment but first to doctor bethany marshall renowned psychoanalyst joining south of the beverly hills jurisdiction author of deal breaker you can see her now on peacock and you can find her at dr bethanymarshall dot com doctor bethany here's the deal yes some of these theories are falling through i'm curious why do people why can't they just accept the truth why does there have to be a conspiracy you know when joe scott and i to the scene in texas where jfk was shot and i examined it for myself and i reviewed the video i'd always thought that's just a bunch of hogwash conspiracy but when i saw jfk's head go forward from a shot then backwards from another shot i will tell you it stopped me in my tracks also can we think about gabby petito for one moment if it had not been for an online sleuth red blue and machine i believe was their name who had been following gabby's daughter disappearance online and they saw her white ford transit parked in dispersed camping which is in the middle of nowhere not a porty potty not a water hookup no lights nothing out there with the coyotes and the critters they saw that by happenstance and they solved the case the mystery as to where her remains were so before we pooh pooh conspiracy theorists let's keep that in mind but my question to you doctor bethany is why can't people for instance as joe scott was saying except the bullet did not exit his neck bam what's with the.
- [17:23]
C
Conspiracy theories and one of those conspiracies about why the bullet did not exit his neck is that he was out there to save people and even in death he saved people by blocking the bullet from the people behind him so we could go on and on you know nancy conspiracy theorists i don't think.
- [17:41]
A
That'S really conspiracy theory that's more of an observation okay by the bullet not exiting his neck it potentially may have saved a bystander from getting shot that's just what two plus two equals to.
- [17:54]
C
The idea was that he had i'm.
- [17:55]
A
Talking about all the other zany theories like yes a plane was supposed to take off with the killer there's a whole group of theory of supporters helping the shooter i mean the theories are really spinning out and patel has to track down everyone so explain to me the mindset of a conspiracy theorist next you're going to be telling me that's not his body in the coffin.
- [18:23]
C
Conspiracy theorists believes that if there's a big event there's a big cause they can't believe just that some crazy guy was on the top of a roof and shot this guy because he was full of hatred they also turn correlation into causation like if two things seem remotely there's definitely definitely a causation between the two they take random events and they try to form a pattern out of them even if there's no pattern at all the only pattern i see here nancy is somebody who is very hateful who wanted to take out charlie kirk that is the only pattern we have patterns in forensic science in psychology this.
- [19:08]
A
Whole i'm listening to what you're saying but i want you to look at your monitor because this is a perfect example it looks totally weird right it looks look at that that looks he looks like a baseball umpire the one in the black the dark shirt as well and you know i get where they're coming from it was totally unconnected to the shooting but taking one or two facts and cobbling them together and coming up with a theory why do people do that is it their need for the truth there's there's a need.
- [19:41]
C
To feel that our universe is reliable that the patterns of this earth are reliable and there's an explanation for everything but they find the explanation in linking things together that are are they're unlinkable you can't link somebody with a nervous tick this guy with the arms on.
- [20:01]
A
His shirt dare i say it of an a very very old piece of poetry by thomas hardy as i recall it's called hap h a p which is short for happenstance where hardy opines i'd rather there be some evil minion god small g that wishes ill on me that's making me suffer as opposed to thinking this is all just by happenstance just happened i think our minds want to make sense of something that just happened because it doesn't fit in the order of our lives but you.
- [20:47]
C
Know nancy this is a part of our survival mechanism if if we did not know where a predator was we would be more likely to be killed or eaten but if we knew where the predator was then we could we could save ourselves like like say our ancestors if they're running through the forest they're they're running from a bear but they don't know where the bear is hiding there's a greater likelihood that they will be killed so now in our modern day society in the face of the unknown we have much greater anxiety i'm thinking about patients people who get ghosted or canceled or somebody doesn't return the call that is much scary for scarier for them than if like a new date just called and said hey i'm not that into you we all want certainty in our world i am.
- [21:32]
B
Filing a criminal information charging tyler james robinson age twenty two with the following crimes count one aggravated murder a capital offense for intentionally or knowingly causing the death of charlie kirk under circumstances that created a great risk of death to others count two felony discharge of a firearm causing serious bodily injury a first degree felony.
- [22:11]
C
It starts like any other night the glass of red the cozy blanket then the drop the stain so dark so stubborn it might as well have been a crime scene but this isn't your average couch this is anna bay fully washable unspeakably comfortable and ready for whatever your life your kids or your ex throws at it and here's the kicker starting at just six ninety nine you can make sure your sofa isn't part of the problem fully washable stain resistant and built to hide even the darkest defenses right now now get up to sixty percent off because no one should have to live with a stain that won't quit annabe the only mystery you won't be losing sleepover shop washablesofas dot com today that's washablesofas dot.
- [23:08]
B
Com straight arrow news find facts and context you've been craving quickly find trusted information you need to understand the news watch what you want when you want catch up on the news at home or on the go with your own news q dive deep into the topics.
- [23:24]
C
That matter to you and the world.
- [23:26]
B
Around you navigate everything you need to know about the topics shaping your world.
- [23:30]
C
Understand how every side of the political spectrum is reporting on a story so.
- [23:34]
B
You get a full picture of the news welcome back to trustworthy journalism san.
- [23:39]
C
Dot com this episode is brought to you by uber eats facing a beauty.
- [23:43]
A
Emergency need a last minute gift well.
- [23:45]
C
Don'T panic sephora is now available for delivery on uber eats you can now.
- [23:49]
A
Get all your beauty essentials delivered in as little as twenty five minutes for the same price as in store plus.
- [23:55]
C
Treat yourself to ten dollars off when you spend fifty dollars or more on your first sephora order on the uber.
- [24:00]
A
Eats app order sephora on uber eats.
- [24:02]
C
Today offer ends october thirtieth one order per customer additional terms apply seat for availability delivery fees may apply goodbye stop.
- [24:10]
B
Settling for weak sound it's time to level up your game and bring the.
- [24:14]
A
Boom hit the town with the ultra.
- [24:16]
B
Durable l lg xboom portable speaker and.
- [24:19]
A
Enjoy vibrant sound wherever you go elevate.
- [24:22]
B
Your listening experience to new heights because let's be real your music deserves it the future of sound is now with.
- [24:29]
A
Lg xboom and for a limited time.
- [24:31]
B
Save twenty five percent at lg dot com with code fall twenty five bring the boom xboom.
- [24:40]
A
Crime stories with nancy grace that man.
- [24:49]
C
That young man.
- [24:54]
B
I.
- [24:54]
A
Forgive him i forgive him because it was what christ did and is what charlie would do the answer to hate is not hate that from our friends at turning point that is erica kirk forgiving her husband's killer she's stronger than me it's just all i can say now trump has a very different opinion and is calling for the death penalty that is a whole nother can of worms joining us right now a special guest former army sniper ballistics expert koa larimore koa thank you for being with us as you know conspiracy theories are swirling many of them involving the shooter and the shot specifically saying that the shot is impossible for someone that is not a sharpshooter like yourself first of all let's just start with a and get to z explain to me the shot as you understand it that killed.
- [26:08]
B
Charlie kirk the shot is very doable charlie kirk was in a vulnerable position at the bottom of a fishbowl right the shooter had an elevated position where he could see pretty much anything the distance also one hundred sixty yards so at the end of the day with a couple range sessions that's not that far and very doable with a couple of what sessions range so i go into the range a couple of times it's very very doable shot you know.
- [26:37]
A
What i'm glad you said that hold on koa chris mcdonough joining me director cold case foundation former homicide detective star of the interview room on youtube chris they better be tracking down every firing range within a ten twenty mile radius to see if they can get the shooter on cam yeah no question about.
- [26:59]
B
It nancy and you know this investigation obviously is still very fluid it's it's got two prongs to it the first one is from the state bureau of investigation there in utah and they're under the umbrella of what they call siac statewide information and analysis center those are the guys that are chasing most of these conspiracy theories etcetera and then the second lane here is the fbi and what the fbi has done is they brought in their you know evidence team and they're going to do a laser trajectory analysis and they're going to match that up to what cole is talking here whether or not the shooter could have actually shot from that position it's a no brainer i agree with doc morgan and as well as koa and.
- [27:44]
A
You know to franz borghardt joining us veteran trial lawyer former prosecutor founder borghardt's law firm franz you're right in that every one of these conspiracies that are being spun out is fodder for the defense okay all these claims that the shot was impossible that the perp in custody couldn't have done it that's just more fuel for the flame and some good defense attorney is going to make.
- [28:15]
B
Hay with that so where there's smoke there's fire nancy and sometimes there's smoke screens and the more chaos a defense attorney can play with the more opportunity there is for reasonable doubt or in this case possibly getting a juror to say hey i think he did it but i don't want to put him to death so all of this stuff all of this stuff is just fuel for what is otherwise seemingly an open and shut case against this person says.
- [28:45]
A
You you know we thought that about oj simpson too and robert blake and todd mom casey anthony we always say open and shut well it ain't a legal term you know what let's get away from flights of fancy and old english literature and back to koa lorimore joining us okay so you're saying the shot is possible with a few practices at the range what else can you tell me about the weapon that we believe was used next thing we're going to hear it's not that weapon it was somebody else's weapon that hasn't been recovered tell me about the weapon yes.
- [29:26]
B
Nancy so it was a bolt action rifle a little bit older than what i have right here right bolt action meaning you have to chamber around physically every time you press the trigger now these rifles are very accurate and using that weapon you can achieve very accurate fire at longer distances than one hundred.
- [29:48]
A
Sixty yards okay here's my question right there you said this weapon is very accurate as compared to what what's not accurate a daisy b shotgun for a twelve year old what do you mean this one is accurate what about all the others how is this one different.
- [30:05]
B
So the difference between his and others right he had the advantage of having also a scope on it right this is going to magnify his target and he it's gonna make it a lot easier to shoot it'll be a clear picture it'll zoom it in it's just gonna make it overall when you say.
- [30:23]
A
Zoom it in give me an example like if i looked through that at an ant a hundred feet away what would it look like would i be able to see it's a little bitty insect eyes how close are we talking.
- [30:37]
B
It'S like having it in a magnifying glass so if you were to zoom it in on an ant right depending on the magnification whether that's eight times to twenty times it could be the.
- [30:49]
A
Size of a human so koa you're a sharpshooter but could a regular person make this shot.
- [30:58]
B
Yes i believe a regular person can make this shot i've.
- [31:02]
A
Got a lot of questions first of all when we say a thirty zero six we're referring to the bullet what do you know about the bullet so.
- [31:10]
B
This is the bullet right here nancy this is a thirty zero six it travels at about two thousand nine hundred feet per second it also is used in middle america for big game hunting deer elk hogs so on and so.
- [31:25]
A
Forth what do you make of claims the bullet could not have lodged in.
- [31:30]
B
Charlie kirk's neck i think definitely anything is possible i think why people are saying that is just because it's uncommon this round normally goes through people why.
- [31:42]
A
I don't get it why that bullet typically goes through and others don't it's.
- [31:47]
B
A larger round moving at a faster speed that's why it's used for hunting.
- [31:50]
A
Big game koa as you know conspiracy theories are spinning out as we speak tonight next thing you know we're going to hear the dna as in the oj simpson case was planted so explain to me in the real world not flights of fancy where you would expect to find dna on the weapon on the bullets on the casings anywhere and show me how the dna would have.
- [32:19]
B
Been left so starting off with the weapon i definitely would expect to find dna here i'd expect to find it first and foremost on the trigger right also right where i'm holding my hand on the grip of the stock also when you're chambering around you're grabbing this lever so dna is on there as well and then finally you're gonna put your cheek on the stock so saliva and stuff is gonna go on here while you're breathing your face is on it dna this is definitely gonna be a dna point as well well how.
- [32:51]
A
Are you getting spit on the gun what koa.
- [32:56]
B
So you're you're breathing when you're taking your shot right so your mouth is going to be open right and could be found right there on the back of the stock.
- [33:05]
A
That'S explaining a lot what about the bullets.
- [33:10]
B
So there's definitely going to be dna on there as well while loading the rounds right you have to load them into the chamber the magazine you're definitely going to have dna on the bullets as well unless you're extremely careful using gloves.
- [33:26]
A
Speaking of the bullets koa lorimore evidence suggests that the killer engraved the bullets that's another question for the shrink what lonely dude is sitting at home engraving bullets but that said how in the heck do you engrave bullets bullets koa.
- [33:47]
B
So it's very easy nancy first of all i assume take some kind of dremel tool right here and that spins this drill bit and allows you to carve into the side of the casing.
- [34:00]
A
Or bullet how long would that take i mean you have to have pinpoint precision to engrave a bullet how do you do that have you ever seen.
- [34:09]
B
It done it's actually pretty quick it's like writing with a marker basically your handwriting might not be the best but the message will get across have you.
- [34:19]
A
Ever seen it done koa never seen.
- [34:23]
B
Anyone in my line of work engrave.
- [34:25]
A
On their bullets no because you're normal okay you're not hunched over an engraving desk down in the basement of mommy's house with a light hanging over your head engraving a bullet so i'm trying to figure out what more evidence i can get now that you've shown me that tool i wonder if one of those is going to be found in his home that he shared with his alleged male lover the allegations of him being a furry don't care i care about hold up that that tool again what did you call it this is a dremel nancy but dremel is actually a brand name like a mcdonald's or xerox copy what is the actual tool.
- [35:08]
B
Called it's a rotary grinder a rotary.
- [35:13]
A
Grinder okay don't move joe scott morgan wants in jump in joe scott yeah.
- [35:18]
D
I was well done by koda he described us down to a t relative to dna deposition two things here first off this weapon it's a mauser ninety eight that means it has an internal magic mag which means it's not external where you see external magazines so he would have had to the perpetrator would have had to have loaded this internally where you're pushing the rounds down point of contact would probably be the thumb over and over and over again until he gets the internal magazine topped off now back to the dremel tool what's going to come into play here nancy is they're going to reach out probably to their question document section i would imagine within the fbi they're going to get samples of this guy's handwriting and they will try to compare it they'll try to compare it to what was left behind on the casings themselves on that soft metal casing where he would have engraved at that point in time and yeah i know that it's kind of a long shot but there are just certain things are what are referred to as neuromuscular responses between our eyes and our writing that you can't change there will be features there that will be identifiable relative to his handwriting ko.
- [36:34]
A
Larimore i know you heard all that joe scott just said which was a lot of information you are a former army sniper you can make this shot you say a regular person could make the shot how long did you train what does that mean to be an.
- [36:51]
B
Army sniper sniper first off army sniper school is five weeks long also i've trained for two years to become an army sniper and then you have follow on schools which i competed in the international sniper competition and i also participated in army mountain rifleman course so that's the army's mountain sniper school the messages also refer to engraving bullets and a mention of a scope and the rifle being unique messages from the contact tyler also mentioned that he had changed outfits investigators noted inscriptions that had been engraved on casings found with the rifle inscriptions on a fired casing read notices bulges capital o w o what's this question question mark inscriptions on the three unfired casings read hey fascist exclamation point catch exclamation point up arrow symbol right arrow and symbol and three down arrow symbols a second unfired casing read oh bella chow bella chow bella chow chow chow and a third unfired casing read if you read this you are gay a.
- [38:10]
C
Lmao robinson's neighbors speculating about the suspect since he was arrested robinson and his roommate were known recluses rarely seen leaving their home except for work and school and virtually never entertaining visitors however neighbors noticed an unusual amount of traffic on their street in the weeks leading up to the shooting and they did not recognize any of the cars many of them marked with out of state plus.
- [38:35]
A
Cleats it's called routine evidence not that it's typical routine but evidence of someone's routine these two the shooting suspect and roommate alleged furry were recluses to victoria churchill joining us politicalreporter dailymail dot com joining us out of dc is this true they rarely had people in their home that was very unusual for them but yet leading up to the time of the shooting it was like a parking lot so many cars outside their home neighbors had never seen that before victoria this is kind of i think what erica kirk his widow was talking about at the memorial on sunday that there is an epidemic of men who are lonely and need to find a purpose and a calling and a community and you know it seems like these two outside of each other did not have much of that and you know this is a reason why community and i mean just outside of this case this is something that gets talked about a lot by conservatives is to change the politics you have to change the culture and in our culture there's a lot of a lack of you know so called third spaces where people aren't at home aren't at work or aren't at school and aren't at home community gathering and finding like minded individuals i think is something that plagues you know generation z generation alpha even some millennials particularly men who may not necessarily be more social i think women tend to be a little bit more social and so you know it's not surprising that these two and particularly robinson who is you know at least right now the shooter in this case that he did not have a community did not have a group of support to make sure and have what does you mean by that at least right now is the shooter do you think somebody else is the shooter well this is the evidence that we are going off of right now as is the fbi and as is everyone else.
- [40:47]
C
It starts like any other night the glass of red the cozy blanket then the drop the stain so dark so stubborn it might as well have been a crowd crime scene but this isn't your average couch this is anna bay fully washable unspeakably comfortable and ready for whatever your life your kids or your ex throws at it and here's the kicker starting at just six hundred ninety nine you can make sure your sofa isn't part of the problem fully washable stain resistant and built to hide even the darkest defenses right now get up to sixty percent off because no one should have to live with a stain that won't quit annabe the only mystery you won't be losing sleep over shop washablesofas dot com today that's washablesofas dot com straight arrow news.
- [41:48]
B
Find facts and context you've been craving quickly find trusted information you need to understand the news watch what you want when you want catch up on the news at home or on the go with your own news queue dive deep into the topics that matter to you and the world around you navigate everything you need to know about the topics shaping your world understand how every side of the political spectrum is reporting on a story so you get a full.
- [42:12]
A
Picture of the news welcome back to.
- [42:14]
C
Trustworthy journalism san dot com this episode is brought to you by uber eats.
- [42:19]
A
Facing a beauty emergency need a last.
- [42:21]
C
Minute gift well don't panic sephora is now available for delivery on uber eats eats you can now get all your.
- [42:27]
A
Beauty essentials delivered in as little as twenty five minutes for the same price as in store plus treat yourself to.
- [42:33]
C
Ten dollars off when you spend fifty dollars or more on your first sephora order on the uber eats app order.
- [42:37]
A
Sephora on uber eats today offer ends.
- [42:40]
C
October thirtieth one order per customer additional terms apply seat for availability delivery fees.
- [42:44]
A
May apply goodbye stop settling for weak.
- [42:47]
B
Sound it's time to level up your game and bring the boom hit the.
- [42:51]
A
Town with the ultra durable lg x boom port speaker and enjoy vibrant sound.
- [42:56]
B
Wherever you go elevate your listening experience.
- [42:59]
A
To new heights because let's be real.
- [43:01]
B
Your music deserves it the future of sound is now with lg xboom and.
- [43:06]
A
For a limited time save twenty five percent at lg dot com with code.
- [43:10]
B
Fall twenty five bring the boom xboom.
- [43:17]
A
Crime stories with nancy grace doctor bethany marshall that was a mouthful all of which everything victoria churchill said is true now i gotta take what she said and use it in a murder case.
- [43:37]
C
Help me out well what i would hear in terms of a murder case is that their primary attachments were online so if you want to gather behavioral evidence you're going to look at their online activity somebody who writes on a bullet about getting a bulge and then a meme for a smiley face after that again i would think about that being sexually motivated i know they were a part of the furry community which was all online in this case in which in which pornography and pretending to be a half man creature look around.
- [44:13]
A
Are you at windsor castle i'm not we're not having high tea with camilla right now the bullet was engraved about an erection that's what this wackadoodle not to suggest he's legally insane he's thinking about his erection he's engraving a bullet about his erection the bullet bullets he intends to use to murder charlie kirk now i'm not a shrink but that means something what i think it means.
- [44:55]
C
That the aggression and the dominance over another male and the notoriety that it would bring about was sexually exciting to him aggression and sex go together often for men who are criminals we see this with serial killers we see this with sadistic rapists we see this with pedophiles they try to control the victim have power over the victim and it is sexually exciting to them i would think that the motivation for this crime while many people conspiracy therapists theorists you i everybody we would want to think it's politically motivated like there would be something meaningful or reasonable or at least some type of motivation we could understand i think of this again as being more sexually motivated that the aggression and the violence made him feel like a man and that's why he put it on the bullet that went in his big old phallic symbol the gun okay.
- [45:55]
A
I'Ve got a question for you you're saying that to get motive we're gonna have to look at everything online because he basically had no interaction with anyone except for his alleged male lover so that's what we're looking at how does his fantasy life regarding furries fit into his out of body experiences well i.
- [46:17]
C
Think with furries there are many aspects of the furry community but one aspect is called erp which is erotic role play in which one dresses up as a furry or as an animal other people tell them what to do and they create vignettes in which they interact with each other now i don't know if he was a voyeur or doing this online but this tells me that this guy lives in a fantas world that there is a lot of role play going on now furries also have personalities or they wear fursuits so they dress up as people they are not.
- [46:57]
A
It'S not just furries this guy's interested in it's not just his alleged male lover it's really crossing the line listen to one site in which he's interested.
- [47:12]
C
Robinson'S porn history surfaces robinson earned an award on steam for frequently playing furry shades of gay a collection of choose your own adventure sex scenes between humanoid animal characters on furaffinity dot com robinson follows red rusker a controversial artist who published cub porn between a clearly adult character in an eight year old possum robinson is friends with a user who posts pornographic cartoons of women with grossly oversized bellies sometimes having eaten their partner.
- [47:46]
A
Whole okay can you explain that to me it's one thing to be furry it's another thing to watch furry porn with an eight year old possum which is clearly an eight year old boy.
- [48:00]
C
You know nancy because these these furry characters are avatars of tyler okay they're.
- [48:09]
A
His avatar to chris mcdonough joining us homicide detective star of the interview room you know the neighbors are stating that the alleged perps home was thronged with vehicles which is very uncharacteristic these two were reclusive recluses you went to the scene somebody's got to have door cam which means the feds are going to have video of everybody outside that home let's see a shot of the home.
- [48:38]
B
That mcdonough took yeah nancy i mean they're they're going to have not only hopefully some door cam video but maybe some license plates as well that are coming in and out of that you know neighborhood there and and you know talking about all this furry stuff i mean maybe this guy should just have been booked at the humane society because i mean this stuff this stuff is put him up is absolutely you know.
- [49:05]
A
What this is not a time for levity let's move forward with the evidence and the evidence is what can we make of the vehicle's part if anything.
- [49:16]
B
Yeah well it just tells us that there's a secondary possibility that you know he's got a lot of friends that may have had pre incident knowledge about this and one other thing about the the let's talk about the shell casing again one more time at his house they found a shell casing with additional engraving on it that tells me maybe they also have the box and if there's a box then there's a lot number on those on that box they're gonna they're gonna chase it down also.
- [49:47]
A
We are hearing conspiracy theories hatched from another neighborhood that sees the alleged shooter walking through yakking on his phone immediately after the shot question is who's he talking to who else knows about the.
- [50:04]
B
Shooting a homeowner in the neighborhood just off campus where robinson stashed his dodge challenger turned over doorbell footage of a man they believed to be robinson walking past their home talking on his cell phone just minutes after the shooting the homeowners told fbi they heard the man mention the shooting in his conversation leading to suggestions robinson told at least one other person of his plans and may.
- [50:27]
C
Had an accomplice candace owens published a never before seen photo of robinson after the shooting robinson seen standing at the counter in a dairy queen seventeen minutes from campus in a maroon shirt jeans and wearing a black hat with black sunglasses on top owens claims the photo was taken at six thirty eight pm while robinson waited to retrieve his grandfather's.
- [50:50]
A
Rifle that photo on the left from candace owen sydney sumner crime stories investigative reporter even if it if even if that is robinson how does that fit into the timeline well this fits it.
- [51:03]
C
Shows that he was still hanging out in orem in the area of uvu campus waiting to try and get that rifle back we see that in that text conversation between robinson and lance twiggs discussing i'm trying to leave i wanted to be out of here by now and to get that gun back not only to prevent him from getting caught but because that was a family heirloom and he was worried he would be caught if he didn't have that rifle on him which is exactly what his father caught him on later send me a picture of your grandfather's rifle and robinson couldn't because he didn't have it.
- [51:44]
A
With him more from candace owens listen.
- [51:47]
C
I feel this kid for some reason some unknown reason is being protected and i'm not the only one his family feels that way okay his family thinks it's odd they don't buy the story okay lance's family is telling me that they are not buying the current story and that they feel that more people are involved they think it's odd that the feds moved on from him so quickly and that the feds were being dishonest and they felt about everything when.
- [52:16]
A
They first came out with information that from candace owens have the feds moved on from him to franz borkhardt joining as veteran trial lawyer franz i'm not sure that they've moved on from the roommate just because he's not in custody does not mean they've dropped his investigation.
- [52:34]
B
I agree i don't think they've moved on from anybody and just because there hasn't been an arrest yet doesn't mean there won't be an arrest the feds are very thorough they do a great job with their investigations and look oftentimes the feds will take their time with co conspirators sometimes co conspirators cooperate against principal actors so i agree nancy i don't think we should assume anybody has moved on from anything with regard to.
- [53:03]
A
This investigation if you know or think you know anything about the kirk shooting you may think it's insignificant but it may not be please die eight zero one five seven nine fourteen zero zero repeat eight zero one five seven nine fourteen zero zero or go online to tips dot fbi dot gov and now we remember an american hero sergeant ryan hudson paducah pd killed in the line of duty after ten years in leaving behind his grieving wife whitney and two daughters ayanna and layla american hero sergeant ryan hudson nancy grace signing off goodbye friend.
- [53:59]
B
Straight arrow news find facts and context you've been craving quickly find trusted information you need to understand the news watch what you want when you want catch up on the news at home or on the go with your own news queue dive deep into the topics that matter to you and the world around you navigate everything you need to know about the topics shaping your world.
- [54:19]
C
Understand how every side of the political spectrum is reporting on a story so.
- [54:23]
B
You get a full picture of the news welcome back to trustworthy journalism san dot com stop settling for weak sound it's time to level up your game and bring the boom hit the town.
- [54:35]
A
With with the ultra durable lg xboom portable speaker and enjoy vibrant sound wherever.
- [54:40]
B
You go elevate your listening experience to new heights because let's be real your music deserves it the future of sound is now with lg xboom and for a limited time save twenty five percent at lg dot com with code fall twenty five bring the boom xboom.
- [54:59]
C
There'S nothing like sinking into luxury at washablesofas dot com you'll find the anabe sofa sofa which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price and get this it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom starting at only six hundred ninety nine dollars the stain resistant performance fabric slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash perfect for anyone with kids pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa with a modular design and change slipcovers you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style whether you need a single chair loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional annabe has you covered visit washablesofas dot com to upgrade your home right now you can shop up to sixty percent off store wide with a thirty day money back guarantee shop now at washablesofas dot com add a little to your life offers are subject to change change and certain restrictions may apply tired of flipping.
- [56:00]
B
Through apps to find something good meet tivo plus your one stop free streaming network no credit card required with over three hundred free channels you get binge worthy movies from action and comedy to indian award winners plus top tv shows live news sports highlights and family programming all in one place watch live or on demand right from your home screen free no signups no fees just press play that's tivo plus free binge worthy and always on check us out at.
- [56:28]
A
Tivo dot com this is an iheart podcast.