FBI PROBES SPACE SCIENTISTS DEAD, MISSING, TOLL RISES TO 16

Summary

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: "FBI PROBES SPACE SCIENTISTS DEAD, MISSING, TOLL RISES TO 16"

Date: May 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Nancy Grace and her expert guests investigate a disturbing trend: the growing number of space scientists and engineers found dead or missing under mysterious circumstances, many with connections to government research, advanced propulsion, nuclear technology, or UFO/UAP investigations. The conversation centers around newly missing scientist Ingrid Colleen Lane, the pattern of suspicious deaths, the lack of clear causes of death or autopsy reports, and the possible discrediting of whistleblowers and researchers working on sensitive projects.

Grace calls attention to the rising body count — now 16 — and challenges the official narratives behind these cases, drawing in insights from investigative journalists, former intelligence officers, and law enforcement experts. The episode is dense with detail, raises red flags about foul play, and underlines the need for official inquiry.

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Major Discussion Points & Timestamps

The Disappearance of Ingrid Colleen Lane

[03:12 - 09:06]

• Incident Summary: Ingrid Lane, a neuroscientist and bioengineer affiliated with the Mind Research Network (connected to Los Alamos and Sandia National Labs), went missing in New Mexico. Her car was found at high elevation, showing unaccounted-for collision damage and a large boulder through the rear window. Three laptops and a burner phone were found inside, car keys still in the ignition.
• Background: Lane was an accomplished scientist, also noted for advocacy work and being outspoken for LGBTQ rights at her workplace.
• Anomalies:
  • She was reported missing in 2023 but didn’t appear in the NAMUS database (government missing persons database) until late 2024.
  • The scene suggested potential staging: her scent ended near the car, but no trail was found for scent or cadaver dogs.

“She is being described as a Buddhist musician struggling with her health. She’s so much more than that. She is a brilliant scientist.” – Nancy Grace [10:02]

• Expert Discussion: Lauren Conlon (investigative reporter) and Brian Fitzgibbons (former Marine, missing persons investigator) highlight inconsistencies, including the implausibility of a boulder damaging both front and back and unexplained presence of a burner phone.

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The Pattern: Dead and Missing Scientists Linked to Classified Projects

[10:02 - 19:20, 21:01 - 26:34]

• Victim Profile: Many victims had top-level clearances and worked on sensitive technologies.
• Discrediting Victims: There is a repeated pattern of painting deceased or missing scientists as unwell, unstable, or having personal issues, rather than acknowledging their expertise and sensitive work.

“They are being discredited and it’s very hard for me to understand how Ingrid Lane can just disappear from a boulder attack on her car. It’s just not computing.” – Nancy Grace [10:02]

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The Case of Monica Jacinta Reza

[21:53 - 26:34]

• Background: NASA JPL scientist Monica Reza disappeared while hiking. Her beanie was found, but after that, all traces—including from scent dogs—vanished. She worked on burn-resistant alloys for rockets, funded by the Air Force Research Lab and overseen by Gen. William Neil McCasland (himself a mysterious disappearance).

“If she were to keep going on, let’s say she got lost, why would her scent stop there? ... Same with Ingrid.” – Lauren Conlon [22:28]

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Forensic Quandaries: Scent Dogs, “Staged” Disappearances, and Pattern Recognition

[26:34 - 28:56]

• Expert Analysis: Scent dogs tracked Monica only as far as the location her beanie was found, with no trail leaving the site. This challenges expected search patterns, implying potential staged scenes or third-party involvement.

“A scent doesn’t just disappear unless that person maybe was put in a vehicle and the dog loses the scent. ... No trace left behind other than stuff that is quite frankly rather suspicious.” – Nancy Grace / Lou Elizondo [28:56, 59:51]

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Kevin Childress, Whistleblowing, and the Nuclear/UAP Connection

[28:56 - 39:06]

• Profile: Childress, a senior special agent at the Department of Energy, was about to meet with Congress regarding UAP-related files when he died suddenly—officially of COVID complications, though colleagues say he seemed healthy that morning. No autopsy or clear COD is documented. He’d reported harassment and intimidation for whistleblowing.
• Revelation: Multiple deaths are connected to those who had knowledge of, or were preparing to speak on, advanced propulsion, nuclear projects, or UFO investigations.

“I feel that [Childress, Eskridge, Sullivan, Lane] are being painted in a bad light ... and they cannot be written off as crackpots.” – Nancy Grace [44:57]

• Nuclear/UAP Link: Lou Elizondo highlights how UAPs frequently show interest in nuclear systems and facilities—many scientists targeted or missing were involved in nuclear technology.

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Matthew Sullivan and The “Crash Retrieval Program”

[41:04 - 48:58]

• Case Details: Air Force intelligence officer and anti-gravity tech expert, Matthew Sullivan, died from an alleged overdose just before scheduled congressional testimony about US legacy UFO crash-retrieval programs. No autopsy performed, despite suspicious timing.
• Congressional Awareness: Rep. Eric Burleson (Missouri) was so concerned by Sullivan’s death he requested an FBI investigation.

“Sullivan was part of a legacy UFO program, the US Government Crash Retrieval Program.” – Nancy Grace [47:48]

• Crash Retrievals: Elizondo, bound by secrecy, confirms the existence of very sensitive crash retrieval and reverse engineering programs, implying high risk to those involved.

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Autopsy Evasions and Medical Examiner Lapses

[48:58 - 51:19]

• Medical Procedures: Dr. Kendall Crowns, chief medical examiner, comments on the alarming frequency of “phone-in” CODs, especially for young or otherwise healthy individuals found dead. Many deaths are signed off as heart attacks, overdoses, or “natural” without investigation—particularly unusual for middle-aged scientists with national security ties.

“He should have been looked at. But again, it’s jurisdictional. Some places... they won’t even look at it.” – Dr. Kendall Crowns [50:38]

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Counterintelligence Perspective & Harassment of Whistleblowers

[55:15 - 63:59]

• Patterns of Harassment: Guests Frank Milburn (British intelligence) and Lou Elizondo (US Army Counterintelligence) share firsthand and vicarious experiences—harassment campaigns, discrediting efforts, intimidation, targeted investigations, and security clearance threats.
• Corporate Espionage and Retaliation: Amy Eskridge, another victim, had reported sustained harassment from both corporate and federal actors, fearing for her life.
• Burner Phones and Tradecraft: Discovery of unactivated burner phones is seen as a signal of clandestine activity or whistleblowing attempts. Elizondo raises the “digital exhaust” factor, stating it is rare for subjects to vanish completely amid modern tracking techniques, adding to the suspicion.

“You have people who are effectively walking encyclopedias on these kind of technologies...then a counterintelligence red flag goes up.” – Frank Milburn [56:08]

“...governments are fully capable of doing this, and this is not conspiracy... There’s a long list of things that we have done that have not been very good...to our citizens in the past.” – Lou Elizondo [59:51]

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Calls for Investigation and Public Vigilance

[63:59 - End]

• Nancy Grace closes the show urging those with knowledge to contact the FBI: “If you know or think you know anything regarding our missing and dead...please dial toll free 800-CALL-FBI.” [63:59]

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Memorable Quotes & Key Moments

Red Flags and Patterns

• “It’s extremely concerning. As I say, it’s a counterintelligence red flag or red flags.” – Frank Milburn [58:16]
• “There is no evidence. There’s no trace left behind other than stuff that is quite frankly rather suspicious.” – Lou Elizondo [59:51]
• “They are being discredited... painted as crackpots.” – Nancy Grace [44:57]
• “When things happen three times, now you have a trend, now you have a, have a connection there.” – Lou Elizondo [41:50]

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Systemic Failures

• “Just because he’s overweight doesn’t mean he necessarily had a heart attack. He should have been looked at.” – Dr. Kendall Crowns [50:38]
• “There was no autopsy there as well.” – Nancy Grace [46:54]
• “No COD. No cause of death. Death is listed in the obituary.” – Nancy Grace [40:12]

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Whistleblowers Not Safe

• “I think because I have enough public persona that maybe it’s more difficult to just do something and make it, you know, look like an accident.” – Lou Elizondo [59:51]
• “We have had our security clearances threatened... and you’re putting a mark on yourself.” – Lou Elizondo [59:51]

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The Burner Phone Clue

• “A burner phone is used when you want to communicate with somebody, but you want to do it in secret, you want to do it clandestinely…” – Lou Elizondo [59:51]

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Scent Dog Paradox

• “A scent dog tracked Lacey from Modesto all the way to the San Francisco Bay... So why is it that Ingrid Lane and Monica Jacinto Reza just disappear and leave behind no identifiable scent?” – Nancy Grace [26:34]

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Conclusion

This episode shines a spotlight on a chilling trend: the unexplained deaths and disappearances of scientists at the frontier of classified research and national security, particularly those with connections to nuclear technology and UAP (UFO) programs. Nancy Grace and her panel reveal a pattern of official evasions, rushed dismissals, and suspiciously “natural” deaths—often with no autopsy or independent verification. A recurring theme is the deliberate discrediting of victims, the prevalence of harassment against whistleblowers, and the strange absence of physical or forensic evidence, all of which collectively raise alarms about the safety of top-level U.S. researchers and the transparency of investigations into their fates.

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Key Timestamps

• 03:12 – Presentation of latest missing case: Ingrid Lane
• 10:02 – Discussion on pattern of discrediting victims
• 22:28 – Similar disappearance: Monica Jacinta Reza
• 28:56 – Law enforcement/forensic anomalies; scent dog paradox
• 32:16 – Whistleblower Kevin Childress’ death
• 44:57 – Autopsy omissions & legacy UFO program background
• 55:15 – Counterintelligence perspectives: harassment, suppression
• 59:51 – Summary, warnings, and call for investigation

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If you have information:
Call the FBI at 800-CALL-FBI

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The tone of this episode is urgent, factual, and at times incredulous, with all participants expressing deep concern about the clustering of cases and the lack of adequate legal or investigative closure. Listeners are left with the sense that these are not isolated tragedies, but parts of a potential pattern demanding a full and public inquiry.

Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The FBI probing space science scientists either dead or missing. And at this hour, the toll has risen to 16. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. A NASA nuclear engineer burned beyond recognition.

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[Nancy Grace]

Tonight, the toll rising to 16 space scientists either dead or missing.

[Lauren Conlon]

The 17th American scientist, her name is Ingrid Colleen Lane and she went missing on a solo hike in New Mexico. She vanished on State Route 144. Her black 2019 Subaru found 9,100ft in elevation and out of cell rain. The sheriff's department said that a large boulder rock crashed through the rear hatch window. The front bumper of the car showed significant collision damage that has never been accounted for in any official report. Three laptops were inside an unactivated burner phone and her keys were still in the ignition.

[Nancy Grace]

Oh, okay, wait a minute. Now I'm hearing that a female space scientist died after a boulder fell on her car. What's the odds of that happening? That's from a friend I found on insta Mary C2HK. But what I don't get straight out to Lauren Conlon joining us, investigative reporter with the Los Angeles LA Magazine, star of pop crime TV co host. You can find her at popcrymetv. Lauren, why did I have to find that buried amongst all sorts of outlandish theories regarding these missing scientists and dead scientists. Is any of that true? Who is Ingrid Lane and is it true she has disappeared but her car is found with a boulder attack?

[Lauren Conlon]

Yes. So as far as we know, Nancy, she is still alive. She is just missing. Ingrid Lane. She was a beautiful musician. She played the violin. But she was also a neuroscientist and a bioengineer affiliated with the Mind Research Network at the University of New Mexico. Now, this place, the Mind Research Network, it had ties to Los Alamos and Sandia National Laboratories. So that is where this very, very striking connection comes in. The way that Ingrid disappeared is so chilling, Nancy. She was actually at a retreat that she was supposed to be on a week long retreat at a place called the Bodie Manda Zen Center. And according to reports and friends and family, she was very familiar with this place. She had been going there, I guess on and off for about 10 years. It was about an hour from where she lived in the Albuquerque area. So she's there for one day. The very next day, she tells people that she's going for a drive. She's got to go back to Albuquerque. She's got to go back to Los Alamos. She wants to hike over there and she'll be back later. Now, this struck a few people as odd because it's like you're going on a Zen retreat, but now you want to drive a bunch of hours, even though you're supposed to be meditating. Now, here's where it gets a little weird. So she's driving along State Route 144 near the San Antonio Mountain and the Valles Caledra National Preserve. She is going up and up and up to the top of this mountain. Now, two people find her because she is having car trouble. And they ask her, you know, do you need some help? And she says, you know, I'm, I'm fine. I will fix my car. They said she seemed very determined to get to the top of this mountain. So according to these two people, they walk along and she continues. Now, later, as you mentioned, her car was found after there was an Apple airtag that police tracked when she was reported missing. Now, there was a large boulder that had shattered near the rear hatch window of her Subaru and the front showed reportedly major front end collision damage. We don't really have an explanation about that, but three laptops found inside that car, Nancy, an unactivated burner phone, and her keys were still in the ignition.

[Nancy Grace]

Let me understand. How can a boulder hit the front end and the back end?

[Lauren Conlon]

Well, we don't know that it was a boulder. Right. Like nobody was there. There's no cameras. So this is what is being reported, I am assuming, based on what law enforcement observed. One thing I want to point out that I thought was a little weird is that she went missing in 2023. She wasn't in the Namus database until late 2024. I mean, maybe that's a question that, you know, I can't answer. Maybe you can answer or. Brian, why, why does that happen? Why did it take so long?

[Nancy Grace]

You're stating she was not in what database? Lauren Conlon?

[Lauren Conlon]

The NAMUS database. The. The government missing persons database.

[Nancy Grace]

Guys, Lauren is saying N A M U S NAMUS is the way it's pronounced and it is a missing person database and she was only placed in there how long after she went missing?

[Lauren Conlon]

About. I want to say more. More than a year. Yeah.

[Nancy Grace]

And again, Lauren Conlon, what was her field of study?

[Lauren Conlon]

She was a bio engineer and a neuroscientist. She was brilliant, Nancy. I mean, her name, I was just looking this up. Her name is connected to multiple reports pertaining to the US Department of Energy. And this is from the Sandia National Laboratory center for Computing Research. So, you know, you can find a lot about where she worked and what she did online. And I went through this deep dive of Ingrid. I just got so involved and I found an article that she wrote back in 2012, kind of like an op ed where she really was already questioning authority at that point. And, and she was reportedly fighting for LGBTQ rights at her workplace, which wasn't necessarily going over too well. And this is according to friends, so. So she was struggling a bit at the time of her disappearance.

[Nancy Grace]

Straight out to special guest joining us, Frank Milburn. We are talking about yet another scientist missing or dead, in this case, Ingrid Lane. Do you know what? Let me introduce Frank Milburn, everyone. Frank, as you may know by now, former British intelligence officer, very dear friend of Amy Eskridge, another brilliant scientist who made it a point to tell Frank repeatedly, if I'm found dead, I did not commit suicide, no matter what anybody tells you. Yet, it's reported that she died of self inflicted gunshot wound. And I'd like to point out that no official autopsy has ever been released, ever. And we've compiled a list of other scientists found dead with amazingly, no cod. In fact, one of them is reported dead because he was overweight and must have had a heart attack. That's not cutting it, but Frank Milburn, what I'm hearing about Ingrid Lane is an eerie echo of what is being said about the brilliant scientist, miss Eskridge, her father, a brilliant scientist, both of them working in anti gravity jet propulsion. That said, they're being smeared. You know all of the comments that have been made about Amy. Well, as to Ingrid, it's, it's being. She's being described as a Buddhist musician struggling with her health. She's so much more than that. She is a brilliant scientist. And I, I see what's happening with these victims. They are being discredited and it's very hard for me to understand how Ingrid Lane can just disappear from a Boulder attack on her car, it's just not computing ideal and hard facts. Every case I've ever prosecuted or investigated either rises or falls on the facts, not innuendo and speculation about the victim's private life.

[Frank Milburn]

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a fundamental problem with these, you know, victims and I will call them victims because they are being discredited in this way. And for example, I've continued my investigations and you know, Amy made allegations of, you know, corporate espionage against two different organizations and individuals linked to those and she was both threatened over that from those sources before her death, harassed, discredited. And also since her death, both she and I, there have been efforts made against, from those same sources, you know, to, to discredit her and to discredit myself for, you know, for trying to push this, this investigation. So unfortunately that's a problem and where you have very, very brilliant people who, who, who have these kinds of, you know, very strange and suspicious circumstances around them and you will have people trying to discredit them and that is to their discredit themselves, not

[Lauren Conlon]

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[Lou Elizondo]

Mm.

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Yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here to talk about my downtown. Some things you'd rather type then say out loud.

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[Nancy Grace]

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[Nancy Grace]

The toll of missing and or dead space scientists has risen to 16. Now I want to talk about Ingrid for one moment. This description of her as a Buddhist musician struggling? No. She was also a bioengineer, a neuroscientist with the Mind Research Lab at University of New Mexico. Also worked at or with Sandia and other labs, Los Alamos labs in particular. Her husband, an astrophysicist with the Department of Defense. He builds directed energy weapons software for the Air Force at Kirkland afb. He has published multiple research papers about Earth, like planets near other stars, but yet she is being painted as a crackpot. Lauren Conlon I've been researching Ingrid, as have you, and all of the personal Every description is discrediting her brilliant mind and her advances in science. She's being written off as a crackpot, much like Amy Eskridge. But Amy Eskridge isn't this true, Frank Milbert had some of the highest government security clearance that can be had. She was working with Homeland Security and more.

[Frank Milburn]

She was also. I mean, I can't comment on her clearances because I didn't discuss those with her, whether she had them, whether she didn't. But she was interested in working on some very, very interesting cases and technologies. She was working with Homeland Security. Yes. And just the fact that she had a kind of string of people who worked on high level government UFO programs who were visiting her home, scientists and others. So she was very much in that field.

[Nancy Grace]

You know Brian Fitzgibbons joining us and everyone on the panel that hasn't been introduced yet tonight. Please jump in when you have a thought. Brian Fitzgibbons is with us, the director Operations, USPA Nationwide Summer Security. He leads a team of investigators around the world finding missing people. He is a former marine and an Iraqi war vet. Brian, here's another tidbit, a fact that just doesn't fall into place with me regarding Ingrid Lane. She went to a Zen center for a few days. Zen center, get it? Zen. Chill her mind. Brilliant. And this was a break for her, but yet suddenly she announced she had to leave by car in her black Subaru. Then it's found on about 11 miles north, I believe. New Mexico 126. Now, here's the thing. She's gone, but her car barely survived a boulder attack. How can she vanish near the mountains? How can that happen? Wouldn't cadaver dogs, drones, someone, something, have found her? There's her car. Where is she? She had a burner phone.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Why?

[Nancy Grace]

Why did she suddenly leave her Zen retreat by car? Why? Her husband doesn't know. Why? Help me out, Fitz. Because this isn't fitting together. And now she's being described, this astrophysicist, as a crackpot.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

What triggered that need to leave this retreat center so urgently? And when you add in the totality of the facts surrounding this case, you brought up maybe the most prescient point, Nancy. You and I together have covered so many cases of missing hikers, and all to a search and rescue effort is very efficient at finding somebody, especially when there are marked trails, known routes, a retreat center nearby. If there was some kind of medical emergency that Ingrid suffered, search and rescue effort would find her relatively quickly. So to add in this burner phone, what appears to be potentially a staging of a secondary crime scene at the vehicle. You know, there are a number of red flags here.

[Nancy Grace]

I want to go back to Lauren Conlon. Lauren Conlon, everyone. Investigative Reporter, you've seen her joining us many, many times on Crime Stories. She is a contributor at LA Magazine and has just written an incredible article about the missing NASA scientist Monica Reisa. And the reason I want to bring that up is not just because of your article, which is amazing, Lauren Conlon, but Monica's disappearance in my mind is eerily similar to some of the other disappearances. Tell me what you learned about Monica.

[Lauren Conlon]

Yes, well, I was just going to say this, Nancy. Between Monica and Ingrid, I'm seeing some similarities that are very chilling. There was a red beanie of Monica's that was found and after this red beanie was found, and again, you know, just for those that don't know, she went missing in June of 2025 when she was hiking in the Mount Waterman area of the Los Angeles mountains in California. It's a hundred thousand or hundreds of thousands of acres, it's entire area. But her area, we do know her last known coordinates, which is where law enforcement and family and friends have been searching for the last year. So she left. Oh, that, that red beanie that you saw on that photo that was found now, right there. Yep. Monica scent stopped after that beanie was found. That is very concerning. If she were to keep going on, let's say she got lost, right. Why would her scent stop there? Same with Ingrid. Reportedly there is forensic evidence indicating that Ingrid had been outside or near her vehicle, but there was no trace showing where she went after. Search dogs reportedly found no scent trail leading away from the scene. That to me makes no sense. And I have to wonder, without being a conspiracy theorist, were these staged somehow? And with Monica, I have spoken to close family members who are desperate to find their, you know, their sister, their mother, their cousin. Monica is a widow. They wanted everyone to know that she was not working for any type of foreign government, any foreign intelligence. She, she was studying yoga with a specialty in Vedic sciences and she had done this for about 30 years and she was working for NASA JPL at the time. One last thing I want to say about Monica, Nancy, is the fact that she had an iPhone 8 which meant that her cell phone was not going to ping anywhere unless she was at a proper place in the mountain for it to work. If she would have had an iPhone 12, it could have pinged. But this is one of the most baffling things ever again because she was with two people, two companions, and they both seem to have a very specific story. And as far as I know, Nancy, no one else can put Monica on the mountain that Day. Except for these two people. I have not spoken to them personally. I have reached out to one of them, but I have a lot of questions.

[Nancy Grace]

Lauren Conlon. Isn't it true that Monica Jacinta Reza got her funding from afrl Air Force Research Lab, and she worked closely with, and her funding was approved by William Neil McCasland who walked away from his home with none of his id, without his phone, without anything on him to identify who he was except an Air Force sweatshirt which was found discarded about two miles away. McCasland oversaw Monica Jacinto Reza's projects and okayed the funding for her. Isn't that true?

[Lauren Conlon]

They did overlap. And I, you know, I've reached out to these places like Wright Patterson, the Air Force Research Lab, and I think I mentioned this to you. It's very difficult to get confirmation of what people did exactly. And the years that they worked there, you know. So I'm going off of LinkedIn for these two in general. But yes, Monica Raza, you know, she co patented these high strength metal alloys, burn resistant alloys, and General McCaslin was at the very top. So this to me, like they are the center of all of this. I really believe they are. And one other thing that's so concerning about Monica Raza. When I spoke to her family last week, no one from the FBI or the White House had reached out to her. And I know that doesn't mean they're not looking into this. I know that maybe family doesn't know exactly what she was working on. I just thought that was very strange in terms of profiling.

[Nancy Grace]

She was working on a particular alloy to be used on rockets and other aircraft that was resistant to, to high, high degrees of heat. And the name is Mondeley. She was perfecting the use of Mondeley on rocket ships and other craft. So as part of her research, suddenly she goes missing. And I want to address what you just said. Lauren Conlon with Brian Fitzgibbons. Here's an example everybody can understand. And I was shocked when I first heard it. This was during the Scott Peterson murder investigation where Lacey and Connor were murdered by Scott Peterson. Do you know a scent dog tracked Lacey from Modesto all the way to the San Francisco Bay. The dog tracked her that far. And she was in a vehicle, probably in the back of a boat with a tarp over it. Tractor all the way in a vehicle. So why is it that Ingrid Lane and Monica Jacinto Reza just disappear and leave behind no identifiable scent for either a scent dog or a cadaver dog?

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Yeah, that's perplexing. I mean, as you know, and you pointed out with the Peterson case and there are so many other examples. U.S. marshals just tracked down a fugitive in Naples just today using scent dogs. This is through thick brush, wetlands. It's amazing what these dogs can do about the beanie.

[Doug McGregor]

It's the only thing found. The big one comes down to the, the, the canines, they took canine teams out there, scent trackers, they tracked the scent to the beanie. And there was no scent trail leading away from the beanie. Right. If she continued, if she continued in that direction, the dogs would have continued. The beanie is at the location where the only witness saw her disappear. The only witness produced the two photos, and the beanie is at that location as well. At the investigative angle, at the investigative side, you have to look into this as possible foul play and possible staging of an event.

[Nancy Grace]

You are hearing well known geoprofiler Doug McGregor answering questions for Lauren Conlan at LA Magazine, describing what is a forensic quandary, a conundrum, a Rubik's cube, so to speak. Because in our world of hard evidence, a scent doesn't just disappear unless that person maybe was put in a vehicle and the dog loses the scent. But that doesn't make sense. As far as Monica Jacinto Reiza's disappearance. She was on the side of a mountain. She wasn't picked up in a vehicle. Ingrid Lane was in the middle of rugged terrain, her car sitting right there, disabled by a boulder attack. No. And a mystery burner phone left in her vehicle. No. Guys, I told you that the toll is now up to 14. And you have been hearing Lauren Collin, who has been intensely researching the disappearance of Monica Reza, as well as Ingrid Lane. But there is another name that has emerged. Kevin Childress. Kevin Childress was found dead unexpectedly. And I'm going to go to Dave Mack shortly about how many of these scientists are dead. But there's no medical examiner's report and there's no official cause of death. How can that be? Even when my step grandfather passed away of a heart attack in the home with my grandmother, they did an autopsy to determine what really happened. He was 88 years old. They did an autopsy and it was a heart attack. Why no autopsies and no official CODs? That's a whole other can of worms. But I want to get back to Kevin Childress. Joining me now is lou Elizondo, former U.S. army counterintelligence special Agent, former employee, Office Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence, former Director, Advanced Aerospace Threat identification program and UFO whistleblower. Wow. Mr. Elizondo, I want to thank you for being with us tonight. You have refused in the past to give me the name Kevin Childress, but I found it elsewhere. Kevin Childress, and correct me if I am wrong, was set to have a meeting describing very, very sensitive scientific information. He was going to Congress talking about what was in the UAP files, and then suddenly he's found dead on a sofa, and there was never an autopsy. What can you tell me about Kevin Childress other than he was brilliant? That much I already know.

[Lou Elizondo]

Well, Nancy, thank you very much for having me. It's certainly an honor and privilege. You're absolutely correct. Kevin Childress was a senior Special Agent with the Department of Energy. And as you continue to look at some of these other cases, there are definitely ties. When you're talking about a national laboratory, there are always ties with the Department of Energy. And so in this particular case, Special Agent Kevin Childress was the special Agent in charge. He was there at headquarters at the Department of Energy. And he had reached out to me. This is right after I left the Pentagon. And he was very concerned. He said, look, the Department of Energy has a significant role in the UAP business, and I'm pretty upset by what I have access to. And now that I've raised it through my chain of command, I feel that the Department of Energy is. Is trying to keep me quiet. So I'm. I'm worried about that. But there is. There's a lot of information. This is what he's saying, that I have access to, and I would love a chance to. To talk to somebody in Congress about it. So I was in the process of arranging a meeting between Special Agent Kevin Childress and some members of Congress back in the 20. 20. 2021 time frame. And to spare the, you know, the family there want to be cognizant of their privacy. Let's just say his spouse is extremely well trained in the medical field. And I think it was a surprise to everybody he had left. She had left for work that morning. He seemed fine. She came home that evening, and. And he was dead on the sofa. And clearly I had some. Some surprise as well when I heard this news.

[Nancy Grace]

And.

[Lou Elizondo]

But if you look at his obituary, which I find very interesting, specifically one of the last paragraphs, it talks about his. His. His interest in the UAP topic. And that's actually what was the. The basis for our conversation we were going to have in Congress. I was going to bring him there as a whistleblower and allow him to speak his piece.

[Nancy Grace]

Can we identify that please? Unidentified Aerial Phenomena. That's what we're talking about. Uap.

[Lou Elizondo]

Unidentified it sounds very conspiracy, but the reality is, is that our government has spent a lot of time, a lot of resources looking into, into the topic of UAP or what was known in the vernacular as UFOs in the past. And of course people like to snicker and giggle about it, but the reality is we took it very seriously and we spent a lot of money, taxpayer money looking into this because we had in some cases almost mid air collisions between a UAP or a ufo, if you want to call it that, and, and military aircraft. We also saw these Things over controlled U.S. airspace over sensitive military installations, over nuclear facilities. And this is why Department of Energy is so important here because the nuclear tie is, it may be actually something that we need to look at all these scientists that have disappeared.

[Nancy Grace]

The nuclear tie. Hold on, you know what, pardon the pun but you're light speed ahead of the US regular people. What do you mean the nuclear tie?

[Lou Elizondo]

So one of the things that we noticed while in the PENTAGON Running the UFO program was that these UAP or these, these UFOs have a, an interest in our nuclear equities, whether it's nuclear propulsion, nuclear power and nuclear weapons systems. And what a lot of people don't know is that the Department of Energy plays a significant role when anything that is, that is considered radioactive or has a certain yield. Department of Energy has prim. And so in this particular case you have a lot of scientists writ large, not just Kevin Childress who was the special agent that were looking that were working at these national laboratories under the Department of Energy cognizance. And a lot of the work that they were doing could be related to some sort of Department of Energy project. Now I want to be very careful here because certainly I don't want to talk about anything that's classified. But you know, as one of your participants here mentioned, these individuals had security clearances in some cases top secret SCI security clearances as high as it gets. And that's the reason why you have FBI now involvement in investigating these what we call national level cases. But there are other individuals and I'm sure your, your, your, our friend here, Frank Milburn can tell you Amy Eskridge was no different. I had the opportunity to speak with her in person in 2018 time frame in, in the Huntsville Alabama area Redstone missile ar where she had indicated to me that she was working on an anti gravitic technology. Her and her Father and that that research was being suppressed. And I know this sounds very conspiratorial, but I was there for the. For the meeting was actually over dinner. And all I'm telling you is what she told me. And she said that they are being harassed and that she's very, very afraid that there are certain elements that are trying to, quote, unquote, shut them down. And yeah, she told me that verbatim. And then, of course, unfortunately, she wound up dying, passing away as General McCasland. The same thing a lot of people don't realize. Neil McCaslin, who we talked about AFRL, Air Force research Laboratory and some of these other national laboratories, he was a linchpin to a lot of the military's black projects. Basically they're working on technologies that in theory we won't see for another 50 years. And McCasm, what a lot of people don't know is that he was also an advisor to one of my colleagues, Tom delong. Tom delong is the former frontman and current frontman, I think, again for the Blink 182 rock band. And as crazy as this sounds, Tom had an interest in the UAP topic, UFO topic, and General McCaslin. Neil McCaslin I know as a fact, because I worked with Tom, was one of his, his advisors on the UFO topic. And so I want to be very careful here not to sound conspiratorial or draw any lines that aren't there, but a lot of these individuals that are on this list actually had some sort of involvement in either advanced propulsion, advanced types of materials and alloys, or specifically UAP research.

[Nancy Grace]

Question to you. What was the cause of Kevin Childress death?

[Lou Elizondo]

He supposedly died from. From COVID complications. But when I spoke to him earlier, he seemed fine. And according to other witnesses, who I won't name here, who saw him that very morning, said he. He seemed fine.

[Nancy Grace]

Did his wife know he had Covid?

[Lou Elizondo]

You know, I. I'd let her answer that instead of me. Again, I'm very cautious not to overstep my bounds. I want to be very careful of people's privacy. But I would suspect.

[Nancy Grace]

Do you know if an autopsy was ever performed?

[Lou Elizondo]

I don't know that. I don't know that. But I know when he talked to me, he had told me specifically, like Amy Eskridge, that he was very afraid that there was. There were reprisals against him at the Department of Energy, that they tried to squeeze him out, they tried to launch fake investigations and tried to discredit him. And something that I'm personally keenly aware of because when I left the Pentagon as well and decided to go public, they, the same thing happened to me and some of my colleagues who decide to come out and, and talk about this topic to the American people. So I don't doubt the fact that he was in some way shape or form being intimidated and they were trying to suppress his, his communications. When I say they, I don't know who they are. I don't know if it was government sponsored or if it was someone else. But I can tell you in my conversations with him and of course Amy Eskridge and then later on with, with Neil Mc, all of these individuals had a, had a very keen interest in the UFO topic and that for me is obviously very concerning.

[Nancy Grace]

Died of COVID Yet no one seems to be able to confirm he had Covid and no cod. Cause of death. Death is listed in the obituary. Kevin Childress, who was concerned that he was being treated as a whistleblower and was set to talk to a member of Congress, then dies on the sofa. No cod. I'm also very curious about Matthew Sullivan, AKA Quake. Is it true or do you know whether an autopsy was ever performed on Sullivan and what was said to be his cause of death?

[Lou Elizondo]

Yeah. So rather than share what I don't know, let me share you with you what I do know. He was an Air Force intelligence officer. He was a colleague of one of my colleagues at the time, Dave Grusch. Dave Grusch and I had worked at US Space Force together and Sullivan wanted to come forward and have a conversation with certain members of Congress about the Air Force's involvement in the UFO program. And he was slated within, I think 24 hours, he had gone to Washington D.C. and was in a hotel from my understanding, and was going to have a conversation with some members of Congress in a skiff. A skiff is a sensitive compartmented information facility. So it's kind of like a think of a secret vault where you can have conversations at the classified level. And the day before he was supposed to have a conversation or two days before he wound up being found dead. I knew. What I do know is that there was a while before the medical examiner even released a report. It kept getting delayed and delayed and delayed. I don't know the reason why it was delayed, but I do know that members of Congress were very concerned the fact that this individual was supposed to testify and wound up dead. And by the way, this wasn't the only one. There was another, another individual whose name I, I won't mention because it hasn't been made public yet, but he was an individual, an engineer who was allegedly tied to the exploitation of recovered UFO material. He was a, he was talking to one of my colleagues and he was, he was going to go talk to Congress about his knowledge about, about legacy ufo, US Government, legacy UFO efforts. And within, I think a week or so before he was supposed to go to Washington D.C. he wound up dying. And the cause of death, I don't know. But one of my colleagues was following it very closely and was concerned enough to tell me, hey, look, you know, people are starting to disappear. You may want to be very careful. So there does seem to be a very interesting, you can call it a coincidence, but in my line of work as a former intelligence officer, you know, when things happen once, it's an anomaly. When things happen twice, you could chalk it up as a coincidence. But when it happens three times, now you have a trend now, now you have a, have a connection there. And there does seem to be some very interesting connection here. Now, I also have to preface though, you know, as a former intelligence officer myself, it is not as uncommon as you might think that foreign countries will sometimes take very extreme measures to keep information quiet. We're now beginning to see that there are several scientists now in China that are missing and there may be reasons for that, and same with Russia. So we need to do a lot of work on this. But, you know, if I may, Nancy, digress for just one moment, because you had a very interesting picture there of a vehicle that was allegedly hit by a boulder. And this was the scientist, female scientist, who went up and wound up disappearing. Yeah. Let's take a look at this photo, for example, just for a moment. What I find very interesting, as a former special agent myself, is that if a boulder hit this, I don't see any real damage to the top of the vehicle. What I see is damage into the back of the window, as if someone tried to do some sort of smash and grab and maybe some minor damage below that on the trunk area. But what I don't see is anything that looks like a large boulder had come raining down from a cliff and smashed the back part of the vehicle there. And now maybe they were able to recover a rock or something. But that really does not look consistent to me as, as a giant boulder coming down from a hill and, and smashing the vehicle. One would expect to have much, much more damage to that vehicle if that was a case.

[Nancy Grace]

That is an incredible observation. It's right under our noses. But we didn't see it that's why you are the former U.S. army Counterintelligence Special Agent. I want to defend Matthew Sullivan because I feel that he, along with Amy Eskridge, along with Ingrid and others, is being painted in a, let me just say, a bad light. Matthew Sullivan earned a Bronze Star for valor in Operation Enduring Freedom. He worked for the Air Force Intelligence Agency, the National Air and Space Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency. You know, it was stated by Major General David Abba that Sullivan held the, quote, burden a select few in this nation have of truly understanding what is going on in the field of jet propulsion, anti gravity, UFO information. He had the highest recommendations yet. Let me understand how Matthew died. Matthew died just before he was set to speak to members of Congress alone in a hotel room. To you, Dave Mack, Crime Stories investigative reporter. What were the circumstances surrounding his death? What did they say he had ingested?

[Dave Mack]

Nancy, they said that this Air Force veteran Bronze Star recipient, Matthew James Sullivan, at the age of 39, died from a lethal mix of alcohol, Alprazolam, cyclobenzaprine. We've got alcohol, Xanax, a muscle relaxer and a bedwetting. That is medication. That's what is reported for children. Yes, for children. Yes. That he overdosed accidentally on those medications.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, there was no autopsy there as well. And when I circled back to Kevin Childress, Dave Mack, isn't it true regarding Kevin Childress that no autopsy was performed and his death was chalked off to a heart attack because he was obese mixed with COVID Yes, that, believe it

[Dave Mack]

or not, that is what was said by the medical examiner without doing an autopsy. Nancy, one thing to go back very quickly on. Matthew Sullivan.

[Nancy Grace]

No autopsy.

[Dave Mack]

None. Representative Eric Burleson. Nancy, he's a congressman from Missouri who serves on a House Oversight Committee task force that on the declassification of federal secrets. They were so shocked in his office at the death of Matthew Sullivan that Congressman Burleson reached out to the FBI and asked for them to do an investigation due to the timing of Sullivan's death.

[Nancy Grace]

Sullivan was part of a legacy UFO program, the US Government Crash Retrieval Program. He was part of the US Government's Crash Retrieval Program. Lou Elizondo, what is that? The Crash Retrieval Program.

[Lou Elizondo]

Wow. Well, first of all, Nancy, it's a great question, and it's a question that I'm not allowed to answer. Let me just say this. I still maintain a security clearance with the United States government. And there are certain prohibitions that I have been told and I've had to literally sign My name on a piece of paper saying that I would not discuss details about certain topics. Xyz, the notion of crash retrievals, unfortunately is one of them. It is still considered very sensitive in the US government. And I unfortunately, I cannot confirm nor deny or elaborate very much at all on. On that topic. But what I can say is what you're saying was absolutely what was communicated as well to Congress that. That Mr. Sullivan here had some sort of affiliation with Legacy efforts and potentially

[Nancy Grace]

reverse engineering the UFO crash retrieval operation dubbed the Legacy Program. That's what we're talking about. And shepherd was into it up to his eyeballs. Before we go to special guest Frank Milburn to tie this all together with the suspicious death of his friend Amy Eskridge. To Dr. Kendall Crowns. Joining us, he is the chief medical examiner in Tarrant County. That's Fort Worth. He is an esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at tcu. He's a star of a hit podcast, made him in the morgue. His lighter side, Dr. Kendall crowns. How is it someone can be pronounced dead via heart attack? Because they're fat, because they're overweight, they just died of a heart attack with no toxicology, no autopsy, no medical examiner sign off, nothing. Who said heart attack?

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

So it depends on the jurisdictions. Some medical examiner offices or coroner's offices will actually sign cases out over the phone with a medical history, known complications like morbid obesity. If they have known to have heart disease, they'll use that to make the decision of calling it atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease or a heart attack over the phone. Now it just depends on the jurisdiction.

[Nancy Grace]

And Taryn county, this is la. Are you telling me this is like Teladoc? They get some information over the phone, they go, okay, yeah, write it off as heart attack.

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

So yes, in some jurisdictions they will do that and they will base it on age, medical history, things of that nature. My problem is, is you have an individual who's too young. I mean, he's under 50, found dead. Just because he's overweight doesn't mean he necessarily had a heart attack. He should be evaluated and looked at to make sure he did have heart disease and did die from that and not something else like an overdose or something nefarious. But he should have been looked at. But again, it's jurisdictional. Some places the cutoff is 45 and they won't even look at it.

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[Nancy Grace]

stories with Nancy Grace to Frank Milburn Joint Joining us, a very dear friend of scientist Amy Eskridge found dead. Milburn is a former British intelligence officer. He spoke with Amy just hours before her death. He does not believe she killed herself, and he is very familiar with technology on which she was working, as well as directed energy weapons reportedly used against her. Frank Milburn, after all you have heard tonight, including the names of two additional scientists missing and dead, how do you compare that to Amy's case? What do you think is happening?

[Frank Milburn]

Well, it literally makes the hair stand up on my neck. The hair that I do have. Yeah, I think it's very concerning. I mean, anytime that you have people who are effectively walking encyclopedias on these kind of technologies, whether it's exotic propulsion nuclear and who have worked for government departments on classified programs, then there's a counterintelligence red flag goes up and these things need to be investigated. In Amy's case, I've continued my own investigations and in the case of where she was accusing people of corporate espionage, documented and receiving harassment from people who themselves have documented histories of legal problems because of violence against women and also making violent threats against her and other people. So that's extremely concerning to me. And it's extremely concerning seeing these other sides. I don't have the FBI bird's eye view, but I'm hoping that they will investigate all of these cases on their merits individually, whether there's some kind of overarching conspiracy or not. And I hope so in the Amy Eskridge case that they also revisit the FBI investigation into her in 2022 because Amy said that she was speaking to the FBI for three months prior to her death in 2022. And then she was told by the FBI this is her words through me saying she was told that the FBI don't have, quote, jurisdiction to investigate her case, which I find very, very wor. I had passed this information to the FBI via a third party precisely because I saw this as a big counterintelligence red flag. Given who she was, given who her father is, and given what they were both working on at the Institute for Exotic Science.

[Nancy Grace]

What goes through your mind when you hear about another and another and another scientist missing or dead, this time from a Boulder attack, the other because of a heart attack with no medical examiner's report? I mean, it just goes on and on.

[Frank Milburn]

Yeah, well, I mean, I agree with Lou, and, you know, being an old, you know, counterintelligence guy myself, like. Like he was. I relate 100% to what he's saying, and he was spot on about the vehicle as well, the lack of vehicular damage. And it's extremely concerning. As I say, it's a counterintelligence red flag or red flags.

[Nancy Grace]

Red flags in the plural.

[Frank Milburn]

Yes.

[Nancy Grace]

And finally back to Lou Elizondo. Joining us, former US Army Counterintelligence Special Agent, former Director, Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. The reason I keep reading out your qualifications and Frank's qualifications and everyone on the panel tonight is because you, many of you have been given top clearances by the US Government, as have these victims. They cannot be written off as crackpots. The way that Ingrid was written off, the way that Amy is written off, trying to paint them as drug abusers, that did not happen. Matthew Sullivan did not have a drug problem, and he wasn't taking pills for child's bedwetting. I want to hear your thoughts, Lou, and I want to hear you mentioned it, but you didn't go into it about threats or harassment that you received.

[Lou Elizondo]

Yeah, no, you're absolutely correct, Nancy. Myself and many of my colleagues have been subject to those harassment and threat campaigns. It's. We've had our security clearances threatened. You know, I hate to say it, but there's a reason why I live in the middle of nowhere with five German Shepherds, and I'm heavily armed. The reality is that we've been told by. By several individuals, some of them law enforcement, some of them even members of Congress, who said, hey, look, you know, they. They are very upset with what you guys are doing, and. And you're putting a mark on yourself. Fortunately, in my case, I think because I have enough public Persona that maybe it' more difficult to just do something and make it, you know, look like an accident. But look, governments are fully capable of doing this, and this is not conspiracy. People say, well, our government wouldn't do that. Well, if that's the case, I would encourage Anybody to look up the term MK Ultra, where the CIA had administered LSD to unsuspecting civilians, resulting in the death of at least one. Look at things like the Tuskegee experiment, where we allowed human beings to be infected with syphilis and allowed syphilis to go to its conclusion, which ultimately is death. Even though we had the antibiotics to protect these individuals, just in the name of science, we allowed these individuals to die. So there's a long list of things that we have done that have not been very good or kind to our citizens in the past. I hope it's not the case that they would still be doing that. But I also know from personal experience that they are very capable of doing it now. Also, one thing too, you mentioned, very interesting when we look at intelligence, and Frank will tell you the same thing in counterintelligence, specifically, there are things we call tradecraft. It's kind of tools of the trade, how we do business or how we ask others, like sources to do business. And this one individual, we keep going back to that car with the alleged boulder that broke into the back of it. The individual was found with a burner phone, if I'm correct. And a burner phone is very interesting because a burner phone is used when you want to communicate with somebody, but you want to do it in secret, you want to do it clandestinely, because a burner phone isn't necessarily assigned to you through one of the various carriers. A burner phone really doesn't have an identity. And so the question is, why was this top scientist carrying around with them a burner phone? Usually, again, burner phones are used to convey information that you don't want other people to know that you're conveying. Was this person going to be another whistleblower, potentially? Was this person having a conversation already, perhaps, with somebody in our government or perhaps maybe even a journalist? Right. We, we, we simply don't know. But the fact that the person was never found, the car is in the condition that is in, they were found with a burner phone. These are all things to me that, that raised my eyebrow and, and I, I'm hopeful that the FBI will continue to, to, to track this down. I think there's enough information there. Look, there's enough. If somebody wants to disappear. Now, day, today's day and age, it's very difficult. Difficult. There's something we call digital exhaust. And anytime you log on to anything, whether it's an email account or a bank account or hospital records, you leave a little bit of electronic exhaust. In your wake. And that can be found trained professionals within the U.S. marshal Service, within FBI, they know how to track down individuals. So the fact that a lot of these people remain missing for me is even greater concern because it's as if they just disappeared. There is no evidence. There's no trace left behind other than stuff that is quite frankly rather suspicious. So I think we have a right to ask the questions that we're asking. And it may turn out that this list that you are compiling may be considerably larger. And I hope that's not the case. But it is quite possible that this is just the tip of the iceberg. And if that's the case, then you know we're going to have to have a much more difficult conversation amongst ourselves.

[Nancy Grace]

Speaking of the burner phone, Lou, it is reminiscent of the missing mom, Melissa Cassius, who takes her daughter a subway sandwich for lunch then disappears. She left on foot. No cell phone, no wallet, no purse, no keys. But when her items were searched, the cell phone, personal and work phone had both been factory reset before she went on a walk. Interesting. She worked with Chavez at Los Alamos. Chavez also missing. Now we have Ingrid Lang turning up missing with a burner phone. Her car disabled by a boulder attack which based on your observations, clearly did not happen. If you know or think you know anything regarding our missing and dead. No medical examiner report for COD, please dial toll free. 800 call FBI. That's 800-225-55324. We remember American hero officer Don Keller, Greenwood PD, SC at 31, killed in the line of duty after just three years on the force. Leaving behind his wife, now widow Allison and a two year old little girl sentenced to life without dad. American hero officer Don Keller, Nancy Grace signing off.

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Your family's safety requires your trust. Trust in the security system you've chosen to protect your home. Simplisafe has made trust simple 24. 7 affordable professional monitoring. With no long term contract, no lock ins or hidden cancellation fees. Their fully customizable system fits your exact needs. With comprehensive sensors and indoor outdoor cameras. Customize a system that's right for you and your [e-mail] and it ships to your door in just a few days. With app guided setup and no drilling required, you can install and arm your system in under an hour. Crime stories listeners get 50% off a new system when signing up for professional monitoring and your first month is free. You just visit simplisafe.com Nancy that's half [e-mail] Nancy first month free. There is no safe like Simplisafe.

[Electric For All Advertiser]

You ever wonder how far an EV can take you on one charge? Well, most people drive about 40 miles a day, which means you can do all daily stuff no problem. Go to work, grab the kids at school, get the groceries and still have enough charge to visit your in laws in the next county. But they don't need to know that. And the best part? You won't have to buy gas at all. The way forward is electric. Explore EVs that fit your life at electricforall.org

[Reynolds Kitchens Advertiser]

Ever wonder how to make hosting look effortless? Here's a secret Getting ahead of the mess with new Reynolds Kitchens Countertop prep Paper Just lightly wet the counter beforehand so the paper grips and stays in place. Then lay down the Reynolds Kitchen's countertop prep paper so drips and spills stay on the paper, not all over your kitchen counter. You can roll out dough, prep a party spread, or cook alongside family. When you're done, cleanup is as simple as lifting the paper and revealing that clean counter underneath. Effortless. You can use it for cooking and baking, prep and even crafting, especially when you need extra working space. Because when the mess is already handled, you can focus on what matters the food, the people, and the moment. It may look effortless, but now you know it's Reynolds Kitchen's countertop prep paper. Take a tip from me. Wet it, set it, prep it. Done. Make it easy. Make it with Reynolds Kitchens Countertop prep paper available now in the Reynolds Wrap aisle in Walmart, Target, Amazon, and Costco.

[Sophia Donner]

This is Sophia Donner from OK STORYTIME this summer. Find your next obsession on Prime Video and listen. We're not saying you need another obsession, but there could be a lot worse one Steamy romance, addictive love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice, so why not watch them a third time off campus? Elle, the Love Hypothesis and More Slow Burns Second Chances Chemistry you can feel through the screen, and it makes you wish you were actually in that movie. We've got Binge worthy series. Can't miss movies. Perfect for when you're ignoring your own problems or procrastinating as one does. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime.

[Nancy Grace]

This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed human.