FBI PROBES SPACE SCIENTISTS DEAD, MISSING, TOLL RISES TO 17

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode Title: FBI Probes Space Scientists Dead, Missing, Toll Rises to 17
Date: May 21, 2026

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Episode Overview

Nancy Grace investigates an alarming series of deaths and disappearances among American space scientists, with the number now at 17. The episode critically examines whether these deaths are coincidental, results of foul play, or potentially linked to espionage and national security concerns. Featuring experts in FBI investigations, forensics, intelligence, and journalism, Grace and her guests analyze specific cases—including the recent in-custody death of scientist Aiden Shaffer—and broader patterns around vanished and deceased high-tech professionals.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Mystery of Aiden Shaffer’s Death (06:39–16:38)

• Background: Aiden Shaffer, a New Mexico-based scientist, focused on advanced propulsion technologies, including anti-gravity research and space elevators.
• Death in Custody: Shaffer died of a reported heart attack while under interrogation for a property crime at Torrance County Detention Center, a facility more akin to a high-security ICE detention center.
• Suspicions Raised:
  • Lack of autopsy or clear cause of death documentation.
  • Oddities in his obituary: incorrect spelling, missing birthdate, date of death inconsistencies.
  • Shaffer had publicly expressed concerns about harassment, compromised devices, and threats to his safety, similar to other deceased scientists.

Notable Quote:

“He certainly felt as though he was potentially in danger and that maybe some of his devices were compromised.”
— Georgia Bradburn (08:00)

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2. The “Cluster” Phenomenon: 17 Dead or Missing Scientists (10:50–12:29, 43:34–52:37)

• Pattern Recognition: The tally of scientist victims has grown from 9 to 17, with a mix of explainable (shootings, heart disease) and highly suspicious cases—particularly those missing without a trace.
• Common Threads:
  • Many focused on dual-use aerospace or propulsion research (valuable for both peaceful and military applications).
  • Several reported harassment, threats, or paranoia about surveillance.
  • Inconsistent or missing autopsies, with CODs left vague or simply omitted.

Notable Quote:

“There are four or five that are missing, not dead, missing under very suspicious circumstances that we just can’t explain.”
— Chris Swecker, former FBI Assistant Director (10:50)

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3. Espionage and Foreign Interest (04:17–04:53, 12:29–13:55, 22:54–24:43, 40:40–41:39)

• Espionage Hypothesis:
  Guests emphasize the logical possibility of hostile foreign intelligence (notably China and Russia) targeting US scientists to steal cutting-edge technology.
  • The FBI ("spy-catchers") vs. CIA ("spies") distinction is highlighted.
  • Espionage efforts are described as vast, ongoing, and highly aggressive.

Notable Quote:

“They are after it day in and day out, and they’re after the people that are working on it. It’s a comprehensive, ongoing effort.”
— Chris Swecker (22:54)

• Direct Claims by Victims:
  Shaffer’s vlogs detail his suspicions about Chinese cybersecurity breaches in his devices:

  “I know China is in my phone, meaning there’s a unit of people somewhere in Hong Kong that have the same level of access as NSA.”
  — Aiden Shaffer’s vlog (22:01)

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4. Pattern of Suspect Suicides and Disappearances (16:39–37:37, 43:34–49:10)

• Insufficient Investigations:
  Multiple experts decry the lack of proper forensic examinations in these deaths:
  • No autopsies performed on several victims (including Amy Eskridge, who previously stated, “If I’m found dead, I did not commit suicide”).
  • Rapid release of bodies, sometimes for cremation, precludes future examination.

Notable Quote:

“If somebody dies, examine their body. It’s that simple...If a body is embalmed or cremated, we can’t go back and do toxicology.”
— Joseph Scott Morgan, forensic investigator (37:37)

• Psychological Manipulation and Induced Suicide:

  • Some victims, like Eskridge, intentionally avoided actions that could be construed as suicidal, suggesting a fear of being painted as mentally unstable after death.
  • Others, like David Wilcock, posted explicit statements declaring they were not suicidal before dying from what is ruled as suicide.

• Unusual Missing Person Cases:

  • Monica Jacinta Reza vanished on a mountain trail—her scent “ends” at a red beanie.
  • Melissa Cassius left behind wiped phones and disappeared after a routine trip for her daughter.
  • General William McCasland and several others likewise left all identifying items and vanished.

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5. The Role of Media and (Sluggish) Official Response (12:29–13:55, 56:08–57:20)

• FBI Investigation Triggered by Media:
  The pattern was initially ignored by federal authorities and only began to be investigated after pressure from coverage like Grace’s and national media.
• Call for Comprehensive Inquiry:
  All experts agree: only a broad, deep, federal-level investigation can resolve whether the pattern is random tragedy, coordinated foul play, or an espionage operation.

Notable Quote:

“It seems like the media has been doing the work of the FBI and they finally did open an investigation…It shouldn’t take that long to see if there are indeed connections or there is indeed foul play.”
— Chris Swecker (56:08)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Technological Threats:

  “China is at it all day, every day through cyber means…Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you.”
  — Chris Swecker (24:21)

• On Investigative Neglect:

  “The way that these victims are being painted is an effort, I think, to cast them off as on the fringe…That’s not true, Chris. It is not true.”
  — Nancy Grace, to Chris Swecker (32:12)

• On Disappearances:

  “How many cases can be connected, that folks have wiped their phones, put their Apple watches in their mailbox, left all ID behind, and then frankly disappeared?”
  — Brian Fitzgibbons (51:09)

• On Scientific Truth:

  “Science is the lamp of learning—it obliterates all of the darkness…With that science, we’re going to have answers.”
  — Joseph Scott Morgan (55:02)

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Important Timestamps by Segment

• Opening, Context, and Scientific Background:
  [01:06–04:17] — Announcement of 17th scientist, Shaffer’s case introduced
  [04:17–06:39] — Field effect propulsion explained; national security implications

• Shaffer and Eskridge Case Deep Dives:
  [06:39–09:51] — Shaffer’s death in custody; possible harassment
  [09:51–10:50] — Patterns among deceased, introduction of wider context

• Espionage & Foreign Interest Discussions:
  [12:29–13:55, 22:54–24:43, 40:40–41:39] — Swecker and others discuss foreign (especially Chinese and Russian) involvement

• Forensic Failure and Suicide Claims:
  [16:39–19:57] — Lack of autopsies, failure to confirm cause of death
  [31:02–32:18] — Eskridge’s avoidance of any “suicidal” flags

• Specific Missing Persons:
  [43:34–49:10] — Focus on missing scientists, details of Melissa Cassius, Monica Jacinta Reza, General McCasland

• Final Thoughts & Calls to Action:
  [56:08–57:37] — Need for real investigation, guests’ closing statements

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Panelist Contributions

• Nancy Grace (Host):
  Drives narrative, draws connections, calls for skepticism and urgent action.

• Georgia Bradburn (Liminality Podcast):
  Leads investigative insights on Aiden Shaffer, identifies disturbing obituary and timeline anomalies.

• Chris Swecker (former FBI Asst. Director):
  Provides inside view of intelligence threats and federal investigation procedures; consistently returns to the espionage angle.

• Frank Milburn (ex-British intelligence):
  Connects corporate espionage, foreign tampering, and the potential psychological manipulation of scientists.

• Joseph Scott Morgan (Forensic Investigator):
  Decries the lack of standard medical procedures in unexplained deaths, highlights importance of unbiased scientific inquiry.

• Lauren Conlon (LA Magazine):
  Provides detailed journalistic research into Shaffer’s custody death, Monica Jacinta Reza’s and other disappearances.

• Brian Fitzgibbons (USPA Nationwide Security):
  Focuses on missing persons and their proximity to classified research.

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Conclusion

This episode unpacks a rapidly growing, deeply concerning pattern of dead and vanished US scientists with connections to advanced aerospace, UFO research, and sensitive government programs. The majority of the guests suspect that at least some of these deaths are linked—whether by espionage, institutional mishandling, or as-yet-unknown actors. The episode issues a clear call for transparency, proper forensic investigation, and robust federal inquiry.

If you have any information regarding these cases, call the FBI: 1-800-225-5324

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Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

This is an Iheart podcast.

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[Lauren Conlon]

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Tonight, the FBI continues its probe into space scientists dead and missing as the death toll actually rises to 17. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. The toll of missing and or dead space scientists has risen.

[Lauren Conlon]

She really was already questioning authority at that point.

[Frank Milburn]

So unfortunately that's a problem. And where you have very, very brilliant people who have these kind of very strange and suspicious circumstances around them between

[Lauren Conlon]

Monica and Ingrid, I'm seeing some similarities that are very chilling.

[Nancy Grace]

Ton what happened to scientist Aidan Shaffer as yet another scientist has been looped into this last name Wilcox. Straight out to special guest joining us, Georgia Bradburn joining us from the uk host of Liminality who has broken the latest on a deceased scientist, Aiden Schaeffer. You can find her on YouTube. Interliminality. Georgia, thank you for being with us. Aidan Shaffer, what did he study?

[Georgia Bradburn]

So Aidan was looking into alternative propulsion. He was involved in spaceports in college. He was studying multiple aspects of ways to get humans into space. And he is believed to have been working on anti gravity towards the end of his life, unfortunately. But what he was doing towards the end, unfortunately, we do not know. It's unclear what it was he was working on.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, I'm just curious, when you say propulsion, Georgia, are you referring to jet propulsion?

[Georgia Bradburn]

I believe it was field effect propulsion that Adam was looking into. He wanted to find any sort of alternative that would get humans into space. He was aiming to do that by some sort of clean energy alternative. From what I can Gather he was very much involved in an alternative to jet engines. He wanted us to get there. And he was involved in space elevators as well. He was doing that for five years. So his research and development was all got geared towards humans in space and looking for alternative ways to get us there.

[Nancy Grace]

Aiden Shaffer, born, raised New Mexico, New Mexico. Popping up again, fascinated with science, space technology in a field known as field effect propulsion. Field effect propulsion, straight out to Chris Swecker, special guest. Joining us tonight, former assistant FBI director in the criminal investigation unit. Chris Swecker, thank you for being with us. What is field effect propulsion?

[Chris Swecker]

Well, I focus on the word propulsion. When you talk about jet propulsion or any kind of propulsion, you're talking about moving heavy objects long distances through space. So it's a dual use technology. You can use it for say space exploration, launching satellites, or you can use it for missiles.

[Chris Swecker (continued)]

And it's a, you know, deliver a

[Chris Swecker]

weapon of mass destruction a long distance from one site to another. So that, that's what makes it interesting to our adversaries. More than interesting, I would say they would, they would love to get their hands on that technology given the conflicts in the world today.

[Nancy Grace]

My understanding and of course, Chris Swecker, I'm just a trial lawyer. Field effect propulsion is an incredibly advanced aerospace spacecraft propulsion. It's a concept, as you said, that thrusts the object that would be an aircraft through interactions with electromagnetic or space fields rather than expelling chemical propellant such as rocket fuel. So that's my understanding, a field effect propulsion. And in a lay term, this is the way I understand it, as just a simple trial lawyer. Field effect propulsion, instead of using any fuel, you heard Georgia Bradburn say he was looking for a clean energy. It uses what is around it somehow and turns that into a source of propulsion. Field effect propulsion. And I had lumped it all together in jet propulsion. This uses electromagnetic power and it's truly beyond anything I've ever imagined. To Georgia Bradburn, I don't understand how another space scientist, a US space scientist, working on something beyond anything I've ever even imagined. Georgia dies while being in custody for interrogation to be questioned on an offense. He just has a heart attack and dies while in law enforcement custody.

[Georgia Bradburn]

Well, that is what we're being told. So far it's unclear. We are told at this point that it was from a heart attack, but we're yet to get any clear documentation as to whether or not that truly was what happened. But Aiden, Aiden had had his issues with that authority in his area. However, whether or Not Aidan's case. And his untimely death is linked to the rest of these scientists that we're talking about today. It's clear that Aidan was experiencing something throughout his life similar to Amy Eskridge when it comes to the targeting he may have been facing for the work he was doing. And so it's not as clear cut as anybody would hope it to be. But ultimately he did die in the hands of the authorities, we believe at this point.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm curious, Georgia Bradburn, you just brought up Amy Eskridge. And joining us tonight is one of her very dear friends, Frank Milburn. And Milburn, who will tell you himself, was in close touch with Amy up until the very end. You, Georgia, referred to Amy having been harassed and hounded because of her work, and she was actually afraid. Was Aiden Shaffer being harassed as well?

[Georgia Bradburn]

Georgia, I can tell you that he publicly expressed on social media that he certainly felt that way. Whether there is evidence or not is yet to be answered. But he, he had made it clear to some friends and on his social media platforms that he certainly felt as though he was potentially in danger and that maybe some of his devices were compromised.

[Nancy Grace]

Now, let's keep in mind Aidan Shaffer had extensive education and training. He was studying economics, chemistry and physics. He went on to study astrophysics. He extended his studies into all realms. Now he's dead unusual in police custody for questioning to Frank Milburn. Joining us, former British intelligence officer who knew Amy Eskridge very well. Does it sound familiar?

[Frank Milburn]

Yeah, it also sounds kind of a bit more than coincidental maybe, although I'm speculating here, but Aidan was directly involved with an organization and individuals who were directly accused by Amy Eskridge of corporate espionage. And that is something that I find very, very strange, especially as one of those individuals I've been doing research on has a criminal violent history, shall we say. And his case seems to be very much similar in terms of the sort of mystery aspect as Amy Eskridge. But what I find very, very weird is that both of them are linked to these organizations where he was directly working for one, and she was accusing the people involved there of corporate espionage against her and also other crimes.

[Nancy Grace]

Back to Chris Wecker joining us, former Assistant FBI Director, Criminal Investigation Unit. I know it's a lot to take in what we're hearing, and I'm trying to separate the wheat from the chaff. And what do you make of what you're hearing? I just find it impossible to believe that of these brilliant scientists, each in their own right, studying Issues and complexities far beyond what I've even imagined as a lawyer. That more than one of them feel they're being harassed and threatened because of discoveries they are making or papers they're going to publish or just before they're set to speak to members of Congress, they die. Now I've got Aidan Shaffer dead of a heart attack while in law enforcement custody to be questioned. It's a lot to take in, Swyker.

[Chris Swecker]

Well, it sure is. I mean, when you have my background, you look at these, all these people and this list has grown from 9 to what, 17 now. And I've been trying to sort of track each one of them as we go. It's no, it's, there's no official list, if you will. It's just, it's a sort of a media wiki type list that keeps growing. But you, when you look at them closely, you do see that some of them you can just weed out very easily. The MIT professor that was a, you know, that was the mass shooter from Brown University. Another one that was shot off his porch after carjacking. Another one died of heart disease. But when you really drill down, there are four or five that are missing, not dead, missing under very suspicious circumstances that we just can't explain. And they were working or had worked on highly, highly sensitive projects of what I call dual use technology. Dual use being it's aerospace research or it's jet propulsion or some type of propulsion technology. And these are the types of things that our adversaries would love to get their hands on and fully understand, given the state of warfare and the state of space exploration as it stands now. And this has been going on since time began espionage, trying to steal state secrets. And these are indeed state secrets. So my mind goes there. Some people, they go to the conspiracy theories of the government doesn't want all this space exploration, UFO type stuff out there. But I think that the more logical explanation here is espionage.

[Nancy Grace]

And when you say espionage, Chris Wecker, a reminder to everyone. Swecker is the former Assistant FBI Director in Criminal investigations. You cannot achieve that position without security clearance, after security clearance, after security clearance. Tons of years in the field working to attain that position. You know, Chris, so many people don't want to speak out because they don't want to be, don't the moniker attached to them of being a conspiracy theorist. But I deal in hard facts. And when I see 17 questions, missing, dead, no cause of death, submerged in water, walked away from their daughter, never came back, never seen again. It just, it's just too much to be coincidental. So when I look at Aiden Schaeffer's case, you know what, let me go to Lauren Collin joining us. She is contributor to LA Magazine. She just wrote an incredible article dealing with this exact material. You can see her pop crime TV. Lauren, thank you for being with us tonight. Tell me about the facility where Schaefer had a heart attack.

[Lauren Conlon]

This is very interesting. Nancy and I pulled this from the New Mexico court docket. So what it says is that on 39 it says per Torrance County Detention center, defendant is deceased. When you go look up the Torrance County Detention Center, I mean it looks like a federal ICE facility. A very different detention center than one would be at if you get arrested by, by the Taos County Sheriff in New Mexico, which is where Aiden Shaffer was arrested. So I'm, I'm a bit confused by this.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm looking at the so called detention center and you're right. Why would someone being questioned on basically a property crime be here? It's surrounded by barbed wire. It's got really high see through chain link fences topped with barbed wire all the way around it. It's out in the middle of what looks to be a desert. Why was this brilliant scientist there? And Lauren Conlon, more important, has there been an autopsy? Do we know a COD cause of death?

[Lauren Conlon]

We don't. And I have FOIA these records because Nancy, he actually was charged per the court dockets. He was charged with burglary. He was charged with arsony, I think with a deadly weapon as well. But everything was dismissed upon them finding out that he was deceased here. So I have been making calls and I believe I'm going to get it. Nancy. And you keep pulling up the obituary or the obituary comes on the screen. I don't understand why his name is spelled incorrectly. That to me is so bizarre. And I think Georgia had pointed this out as well. They also don't even have a birth date for him. It just is 1976. This is, everything about this is bizarre.

[Nancy Grace]

To Georgia Bradburn joining us from uk host of Liminality. Georgia, do we know if an autopsy was performed on Aiden Shaffer?

[Georgia Bradburn]

No, not at this point. I believe that somebody else has also filed a FOIA for that. But just worth noting on that obituary as well, the date of his death actually changed two weeks ago. So I caught this based on a screenshot that somebody had taken originally. And two weeks ago that date of death was March. Sorry, the two weeks ago the date of death was the 6th of April. Now it's the March. Now it's March 6th.

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[Lauren Conlon]

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm calling in a death investigator, a renowned death investigator, Joseph Scott Morgan, professor, forensics, Jacksonville State University. He is the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and he is the star of a hit podcast, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. But all that aside, Morgan is a death investigator that I first met many years ago as a felony prosecutor. And he was working with the medical examiners in what was then one of the murder capitals of the world, inner city Atlanta. We had so many homicides, I couldn't keep up with them. And I would go on trial. Joe Scott, as you recall. And every other week trying nothing but felonies and still couldn't keep up with the crushing load of felonies and homicides. So Joe Scott has performed over 10,000 death investigations of all natures. Joe Scott, why do we keep having scientists that A, go missing and B, don't have autopsies? You and I discussed it last week. I can't remember the number we identified. Of these, seven, now 17 that don't have a real official COD cause of death. There's one scientist that's found dead. They go, oh, he was overweight, he was obese, must have been a heart attack. And that's the cause of death. Really? Amy Eskridge did not have an autopsy. It's called self inflicted gunshot wound. When the week before she says to Frank Milburn, if I'm found dead, I did not commit suicide. Now we have another self inflicted gunshot wound, and that is David Wilcock. No autopsy. And I'm going to get into it with you about how can a self inflicted gunshot wound be something very, very different. Not that at all. But first, no cod, no autopsy. We're going to have to do a flowchart on that to just. Scott, how many of these scientists never have an official cause of death?

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, and that's a major problem now. You know, you look back over your shoulder through time and you want these answers. People are demanding answers now, right? I mean, this is one of the biggest stories in the world and there's no data to give them at this point in time. And listen, we, once this is done, once the body has been released and has been either buried or cremated, there ain't no going back. It's, it is perfection in this idea. If you're thinking about hiding something, there is no excuse. And let's go back to the gentleman you were mentioning just a moment ago that has allegedly died in custody. Nancy, when in the medical legal community, when anyone dies in custody, and I don't care if they're in the back of a patrol car or if they're in a hospital wing in a facility, they have to be examined by a medical legal authority. And this is why, because you are in custody, literally in the state that you're found in, they are charged with protecting you. Okay? So when you die in that environment, everything has to be examined so that there are no questions in the future coming back to say, well, this happened to them. So at least you have to draw tox, you have to do an external examination. If this man was not autopsied, if his death was not reported to the medical legal authorities, there is a major problem here. Okay, because you would want to draw tox on him to try to understand what's going on at a chemical level within his body. And then we have to look for any kind of signs, any kind of trauma on his external person and also internally, just to see why is it that of all points in time, he dies in custody and doesn't die outside of custody? Do you see that? That's a big question that we have to ask. And all of these, I'm going to be very curious. I'll help you put together the flowchart chart and we can go by point by point to try to explain why this is so very important.

[Unidentified Technical Expert]

I'm curious if the PRC is watching. I know they're in my phone. I've alluded to that earlier today. So. And that's not just paranoia, that's my professional work life due to being on the inside of apec because I know China is in my bone, meaning that there's a unit of people somewhere in Hong Kong that have the same level of access as the nsa. So anyway, use signal, everybody.

[Nancy Grace]

That's him. That's Aiden Schaefer speaking about his fear, based on certain incidents that had occurred, that his phone was, for lack of a better word, tapped. That is from Vlog of the Dead. It's on YouTube. And now I want you to hear something that Chris Swecker told us.

[Chris Swecker (continued)]

It would not be out of the realm of possibility that China or Russia or some other hostile foreign intelligence service would kidnap one of our scientists and try to extract information out of them or turn them into a double agent. General public tends to be a little bit unaware of the prolific efforts to steal our sensitive technologies from A to Z. They're after it day in and day out, and they're after the people that are working on it. It's a comprehensive, ongoing effort on the part of hostile foreign intelligence services to steal our technology. I think we're going to see this list grow and it's going to play out in the public eye because it's of great interest to the public.

[Nancy Grace]

That is our guest tonight, our friend Chris Swecker, former FBI assistant director, speaking to Fox Nation. But let's hear it from the horse's mouth. You know, Chris, so often when we hear someone state, I think somebody's listening on my phone, you immediately think they're crazy, right? This guy, Aiden Schaefer, we just saw him speaking. He's not crazy. He thought someone was listening to his phone or gathering information from his phone. And at your level at the FBI, that is not uncommon.

[Chris Swecker (continued)]

You can't overstate how aggressive and proactive

[Chris Swecker]

especially China is in trying to gather up and steal our technology. It isn't just technology in the hands of our defense establishment, if you will. It's any technology that's helpful to them that will help them compete, you know, in the world marketplace in, in, you know, in military, in, you know, research and development.

[Chris Swecker (continued)]

Because they don't do their own research and development.

[Chris Swecker]

They reverse engineer every. Just about everything. They don't have the, you know, the initiatives and the freedom that we have here to do that, you know, research and technology. So they're after it every day. He sounded, you know, I agree with you. You sound a little paranoid. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. And in this case, that may well have been true because China, especially Russia, is at it too, but they're a little more clumsy and they're easier to detect. China is at it all day, every day through cyber means. They're trying to compromise. Scientists go to trade shows, introduce foreign exchange students. They're at it all the time. And, you know, it wouldn't surprise me at all. And this is an alternative theory, that one or more of these scientists had been turned and now you're in it and you can never get out of it. The only way you can get out of it is to take your own life.

[Nancy Grace]

Chris, I want you and everyone else on our guest panel tonight. I've been watching the videos of Aiden Shaffer over and over and over. I'm just a layperson to detect what I can. I've looked at every word. I just want you to see and hear him speaking.

[Unidentified Technical Expert]

Listen, if you're in the ufology thing, if you've talked with Amy, you probably have seen this once or twice. It's a very hastily done model. Here's what is inside. It's a technical model, just trying to learn how to build a flying saucer. And yes, everything. Shapes, mean, things. Parts inside may not actually reflect reality. If anything, I kind of want to redo this one, maybe make it a bit shorter so it's tighter. I am a maker. I should be a fabricator. I should, should still be blacksmith and make things. The joy of making is difficult because how you can envision something isn't how it comes into reality. Or the labor of your hands sometimes does not match the quality of your vision, your artistic vision. I'm curious if the PRC is watching. I know they're in my phone. I've alluded to that earlier today, so. And it's not just paranoia, that's my professional work life due to being on the inside of apec, because I know China is in my phone. Meaning that there's a unit of people somewhere in Hong Kong that have same level of access as the nsa. So anyway, use signal, everybody.

[Nancy Grace]

I just wanted you to see that. And there's so much more. That's from the Vlog of the Dead. That is Aiden Shaffer speaking. And there's a lot of it. And he's not just based on that, but everything I've learned. He's brilliant. To Frank Milburn, former British intelligence officer who knew Amy Eskridge so very well and knew and is familiar with her work in the anti gravity technology as well as directed energy weapons. She was working with that as well. Frank, when you hear him, Aiden Shaffer, speaking about people's Republic of China or didn't know who he thought may have been gathering information from his phone. And we hear Chris Wecker talk about there are fleets of hackers, fleets of specialists in China every day, 24 7, trying to crack in to not just his phone, but millions of Americans phones. We know that we joke about TikTok all the time, how the Chinese are in our phone on TikTok. That's just a very simple rudimentary example. But Frank, I compare it to this. I've dealt with so many teens, preteens, tweens, children even, that are targeted online. And it's not just one person doing it. There are people in their basements all over the world right now trying to get children to respond to them. It's like a sweatshop. There are thousands of them in every state trying to get children to respond to them so they can get into their world via social media and then molest them. I can't overstate how many there are now. Think about the power of a foreign entity, as Chris Wecker was describing, constantly trying espionage on our scientists. It's real.

[Frank Milburn]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I know from Amy Eskridge and she was talking about her and her team, both at home and also at work, that they were constantly having to, you know, sort of rewire, reinstall, clean install their computers, their phones, and they literally couldn't keep up with it because you had a team of working against them, you know, sort of 24 7. Sometimes it would be like a Russian IP, sometimes it would be sort of China linked IPs that they could find or other suspicious IPs. But obviously these are very technically, you know, competent people that we're talking about. But Amy kind of got so concerned towards the end. I mean, I'm looking at her, a message from her just now from November 2021 and she's saying that she's so worried. She doesn't want to go to a psychiatrist to deal with her stress, to get stress relief, medication, because she doesn't want to be anything that could be construed as being suicidal. She doesn't want to get pain relief for all the pain that she's in because she doesn't want it to be construed that she took an overdose or something. And she doesn't want to get a carry, a concealed carry license for a weapon because she's worried that that could be construed as in she got herself a firearm and she committed suicide with it. So that's the kind of level that

[Nancy Grace]

we were at with Amy, you know, it's interesting. Back to Chris Swecker joining us, former assistant FBI director in criminal investigations. Chris, I've dealt with a lot of legitimately legally insane defendants, many, many, many of them over the course of a decade. Plus typically, let's just use street vernacular, Crazy people are not worried about the fact that they may appear crazy. They're not worried about, hey, I don't want to talk to a counselor about my stress. I, I don't want that to go on my record. I don't want anybody to think I'm suicidal because I'm not suicidal. And then she commits suicide. According to sources, no cod, no formal medical examiner report. So the way that these victims are being painted with quite the brush is an effort, I think, to cast them off as on the fringe, on the fringe of science, not important mental problems. That's not true, Chris. It is not true.

[Chris Swecker (continued)]

Brilliant people are eccentric and you know, what you're talking about, I think is a really good point. I mean, they, these people who are going to kill themselves or are suicidal don't run around saying, hey, I'm not suicidal. Please understand this. If something happens to me, it's not suicide. They don't go out and commit suicide. So, you know, it's the thing that's bothered me about all of this. We know that they're not all connected, but it wasn't being looked at. It appears that it wasn't being looked at. By looked at, I mean deeply investigated by the FBI until the media brought it to their attention. And let's understand the difference between the FBI and the CIA. The FBI are spy catchers, the CIA are our spies. And it's the FBI's role to get into, to dig into these sort of things and find out if there is indeed a pattern here or if this is some broader conspiracy or what. You know what's behind all of this and not take it at face value. So I've, you know, if there's one thing that there's an element of truth to and that is it wasn't looked at early on. None of these were looked at. They were local investigations, state and local police departments looking at them in isolation.

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[Lauren Conlon]

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Now we have Lauren Conlon. Another death reportedly by self inflicted gunshot wound. And I'm talking about an American writer and a significant figure in the disclosure movement. And when I say disclosure movement, advocating vociferously for the complete opening and disclosure of UAP information, commonly known as UFO information. He was really pushing the government to release that. And just as it all seems to be about to happen. But don't hold your breath. I'm still waiting for all the Epstein files to be released. He suddenly dies of a self inflicted gunshot wound. Tell me about his death.

[Chris Swecker]

Yes.

[Lauren Conlon]

This is so tragic. David Wilcock. I think many people were shocked as well because he seemed to be doing well via his social media posts. And you know, nobody actually knows what's going on in someone's head. Of course, it's incredibly tragic. And the entire community, Nancy, the entire UAP community, disclosure community was just reeling from this.

[Nancy Grace]

I want to go to Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of Forensics, Death Investigator. I'm curious. I'm not ready to make any formal assessment, but I'm curious about, for instance, one scientist disappearing and being found in a body of water months later. Could water conceal a cod? I'm also curious about self inflicted gunshot wounds. How can we determine? Is it real? How can we determine if someone had been slipped a psychotic drug to induce suicidal ideation such as David Wilcock? When you don't have a formal medical examiner autopsy, you don't have toxicology. I don't know what, if anything, was in his blood. I don't know. Tonight I don't know what happened to Aiden, who died of a heart attack in detention and what looks to be an ICE facility. Why? How did that happen? Why was he there? Also, you've got Wilcock and Eskridge both stating. Can I see that full screen please? That Wilcock posted I am not suicidal. Same thing Eskridge said. Now they're both dead by self inflicted Gunshot wounds. How can I tell the difference?

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Well, I'll put it to you this way. You and I have both covered cases like this and I've worked cases like this where individuals have in fact taken their own lives. All right, with self inflicted injuries. All right. That doesn't mean that somebody else's hand was not on it. Okay. It's a slippery slope here because you can have individuals that are right on the edge, Nancy. They might have some type of psychopathology that's going on. They could be intimidated, which I've worked cases like that to the point where they do feel hopeless and helpless and they do in fact self inflict at that point in time. I've seen these cases, they are out there, we hear about them all the time, particularly in teen groups. So this is something that you cannot just merely say, oh yeah, yeah, well, you know, this was, you know, self inflicted or this was self, you know, fatal self harm. You can't just simply say that and dismiss it. And here's the big problem and it's really a simple solution. If somebody dies, examine their body. It's that simple. Because many times people will actually, and I'm talking about medical, legal authorities and the police, they will release bodies directly to funeral homes from scenes that have self inflicted harm. And this is a major problem, particularly when you come up against this, because I'm interested, you had mentioned just a moment ago any kind of psychoactive drug. Right. Well, if a body is embalmed, right. We can't go back and do toxicology at that point in time to see what was actually in their system. If the body is cremated. We certainly can't do that. There's no unringing the bell at that point in time. So all of this adds up. And to the director's point just a little while ago, I'm very curious and I'm thinking about this as a forensic, medical, legal person. When you look at the data that has been posted relative to all of these individuals, this kind of charted out event, we look at this from an epidemiological standpoint where you get these clusters that, that are occurring. And then what epidemiologists do is they look at the kind of group that these people and you can classify it any way you want to, level of education, level of interest, all these sorts of things. Why are these clusters appearing within these groups? Could you take, you know, just another random group and still find this clustering? I think that there's something here from a scientific standpoint, from an epidemiological standpoint if you want to look at it from that perspective, that actually correlates to this mystery that we have that we're trying to solve. But if you're shooting yourself in the foot to begin with as an agency and you're not following through as a death investigator, then you train wrecking the investigation before it even gets started.

[Nancy Grace]

We haven't even touched on the missing scientist and I'll go to Fitzgibbons on that in one moment. But another issue, and I'm going to throw this to Swecker in Melbourne. First to Chris Swecker. I'm casting my eyes toward China and Russia.

[Chris Swecker (continued)]

With those two countries, nothing's off the table. There are no rules, no boundaries. And if they want to take out a scientist that they think is, develop, is in, in a key person in the development of a, of a military technology or an aerospace technology that's detrimental to their countries, they, they would do it. You know, post World War II, as with there was a race to, to, you know, developed more and powerful atomic bombs and nuclear, nuclear weapons. And we recruited and in some cases took out scientists that were, that were hostile to this country. And that's that whole Cold War dynamic that we had post World War II. So it's on the table and nobody should think that we, that even our intelligence services or and especially the hostile foreign intelligence services to the United States would not do this. I'm not saying that's what's happening here. I'm just saying it's out there, it's a possibility.

[Nancy Grace]

And I'm wondering, we know Trump has called for an investigation. Is it real or is it just, you know, for show? I base everything on what I've seen in other cases. For instance, we told we were going to get the Epstein files. We haven't gotten them all. That was a lie. What else do we not know about this investigation? Frank Milburn, did Amy Eskridge believe that a foreign entity was targeting her or did she think it was corporate espionage?

[Frank Milburn]

Yeah, there's a number of interesting threads there. We went through all this. There certainly seemed to be some indication that there were sort of foreign threat actors, Russia and China because of the IT related issues that she had. But she also did she accused a, you know, American organization of corporate espionage against her, which Aidan Schaefer's directly. Aidan Schaefer is directly linked to because he used to work for one of them. And that organization is the one that she was making these allegations against, both in voice form to me and also the ones that I've given to you in her voice file format. But I think the problem here is she was also worried that, that her IP was upsetting somebody, you know, domestically. And she thought perhaps maybe an aerospace company. And certainly in terms of the amount of time, four years that she was under this level of harassment, both information technology penetrations, both the physical surveillance, the technical surveillance, and also the, you know, the social engineering, the directed energy weapon attacks, which are documented against her and against other people. That's a lot of moving parts to have on the ground that are sort of flying under the radar of local law enforcement and also of, you know, counterintelligence agencies. So that's some kind of actor that can, that can work with a level of impunity. Freedom of action, Frank.

[Nancy Grace]

I've been looking at some recently discovered texts of Amy Eskridge's, and I'm convinced that she was not suicidal. We haven't even touched on the missing scientists. To Brian Fitzgibbons joining us. Director of Operations, USPA Nationwide Security. And let me stress, Fitzgibbons leads a team of investigators around the world finding and extracting missing people, other countries all across the US he finds them and extracts them if possible. He is a former Marine and Iraqi War vet. Brian Fitzgibbons, we've been so focused on the body count tonight, we haven't even addressed the missing scientists way in.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Yeah, you're absolutely right. And you know, there are five missing. Right. Two of which, Monica Raza and General William McCasland, had incredibly high security clearances and access to this information. And I want to touch on something that Chris Swecker said. These, these foreign intelligence organizations are not just going after and targeting folks that have that access. They're also targeting people with placement. And what I mean by placement is this would refer to somebody who has physical or occupational proximity to that desired information. And that's where you lump in. You know, the foreman in Los Alamos and the administrative assistant and a contracted custodian. You know, they can't be easily dismissed as not connected because they themselves don't have access to the information. They have the right placement. So these missing, the missing on our list. I think, you know, it's easy to lose sight of the forest for the sake of the trees. But these missing cases, in my opinion, are what need a lot of time and focus on.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, Brian, one of the missing, Melissa Cassius, there, you see her on the right. I really identify with her personally because she drops what she's doing and goes to take her daughter a subway Sandwich for lunch. And how many times everybody on the panel has children. You drop what you're doing. You stop in the middle of your work and you do some crazy thing like pick up a dress or bring a Subway sandwich or carry soccer hands to school just before practice. There's a million things you do. She dropped everything she was doing, Brian, to take her daughter a Subway sandwich. Then she walks out of the house in the middle of the day, which she never did because it was so hot there. I have in my notes here how hot it was outside. She worked with Chavez at Los Alamos. She leaves in the heat for a walk, which she never did. 2:18pm she planned to work from home that day. She's last seen on surveillance walking briskly Eastbound State Road 518. The heat of the afternoon. No phone, no ID, nothing. She's never seen again. Okay, no, that's not right. Everything in my mind is screaming. This mom would never have left her daughter. And Fitz, when they go to look in her home, they find her work phone and her personal phone. Both of them had been wiped and factory reset. I mean, I've said this a hundred times. You know the old story about the five blind men trying to describe what is an elephant? Well, one is feeling the trunk and one is feeling the tail and one the tummy. And two of them each have a leg and a foot. And nothing makes sense to them. They just know basically what it is. And I am telling you, I know that this woman did not leave her daughter. Now, what her position was is that she worked with Chavez at Los Alamos. That's the one that really speaks to me, Brian. But all of them, all of them just leave with no ID. McCaslin leaves no cell phone, no ID. He even takes off a smartwatch. Nothing to identify who he is. In fact, less than two miles away, his Air Force sweatshirt is found. We believe it's his on the side of the road. Monica, you know, let me go to you, Lauren Conlon. You have done a really deep dive on Monica Jacinta Reza. And your article in LA magazine was eye opening. And I'm sure that took you hundreds and hundreds of hours of research to put that one article together. Together remind us about how Monica just disappears off a trail.

[Lauren Conlon]

Of course, Monica's disappearance is very chilling because she was with two people from her yoga group. And reportedly she was descending from a mountain with her male companion. Only she was behind him about 30ft. They were both running. Again, this is a steep terrain. No one can understand why they were Running. The male companion turned around, he waved to her. A minute later she was gone, vanished into thin air. And that red beanie was found on a more dangerous path leading off of the mountain. This is Mount Waterman. And her scent stopped at that beanie. Nancy. Very strange. And just to go back, one thing you said about Melissa Cassius. I want to point out that Melissa was an administrative assistant at Los Alamos. Generally she wouldn't have a high security clearance. However, I think the important question to ask without sounding too conspiratorial, is did she see something that she shouldn't have? And also it was reported that Melissa was seen getting into a vehicle, although the make and model is not available.

[Nancy Grace]

And you know, to Brian Fitzgibbons, after we did a careful review of the disappearance of Ingrid. Well, let's see her vehicle. So she's out in the middle of nowhere. She disappears, like Jacinta Reza. Her scent just ends, which we all know that scent dogs don't just. It doesn't just end. The person has to get in a car. Your scent just doesn't end. Her scent ends near her car. And her disappearance was chalked off to as a boulder attack that a boulder fell on her car. So what, she lived and then disappeared all on her own? I mean, Fitzgibbons, these stories are fantastical.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Yeah. The circumstances around Ingrid's vehicle, you know, in the evidence collected there at the scene, having taken a look at those photos, it is almost unbelievable the narrative that's been placed together here. And when you add these things in totality and you look at the other missing cases, these are folks that. How many, how many cases that can be connected, that folks have wiped their phones, put their Apple watches in their mailbox, left all identifiable information behind and then frankly disappeared. Right. So there's a lot to these cases that connects them not only from the uap, UFO scientific standpoint, but from their placement and access to this information, along with the circumstances around their disappearances.

[Nancy Grace]

Frank Milburn, weigh in.

[Frank Milburn]

I think it's extremely worrying what's been going on with all of them. The ones that we've narrowed into that have the links to the aerospace and defence angle. And I'm particularly concerned as well with the new one about Shaffer, principally because there is a link there to Amy Eskridge. Now, I have concentrated on the Amy Eskridge side. But that to me, when I saw Georgia come out with that research, that to me was particularly concerning.

[Nancy Grace]

I don't know that I can connect David Wilcock to this because Loren Conlon accurately pointed out that he was waving a gun around. He was observed killing himself. Not so with Sullivan. Joe Scott, Morgan, you and I very carefully vetted the facts as it relates to Sully. Just before he's to meet with someone in Congress about what he knows, he suddenly is found dead in a hotel room and one of the drugs he OD'd on was a child's bedwetting medication.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

What's, you know, and you have to think about the connectivity here. And why is it that at that moment in time with this drug cocktail that he would decide to take his life? What would be, you know, because, you know, you talked about a few moments ago, Nancy, this concept of suicidal ideation and that's one of the things we look at with people that do self harm.

[Chris Swecker]

Right.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

What kind of history do they have? Is this something that just suddenly manifests itself? You know, one day you're kind of clipping along, you're, you have access to data, you're going to make an official presentation or comment about this and then for whatever reason, you're gone, man. I mean, you're absolutely gone. And so I think that a deep dive into his death and also how these drugs were applied, was this a completely oral ingestion or was there any other indicators on his body that they could have applied, been applied some other way? I'm thinking about things like needle puncture wounds and things like that that we look for.

[Nancy Grace]

I was just about to ask you that, Joe Scott, about how subtle a very, very thin needle puncture wound can be on a body. And if it's in a location where the ME typically wouldn't look like behind the ear, there are many ankles. And I know this because of autopsies I've attended where an addict did overdose and they couldn't find the needle mark and then they found it in a very obscure location on the body and use a very thin needle in an obscure location, it very often goes undetected.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, it does. And that's why you have to be incredibly thorough and also the investigation before you ever start the post.

[Unidentified Technical Expert]

Right.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Because you have to have a direction. And I say post, I mean autopsy, you have to have a direction. It kind of the information that comes in to the forensic pathologist from the field is kind of the roadmap. Right. You know, we kind of know what we're dealing with at the same time seen. And then you move forward with the autopsy and all, all things have to be considered that, that's the beauty of medical, legal death investigation. We're not for either side. We just want the scientific truth here. And unfortunately, with a lot of these cases, I'm seeing an absence of that. I'm seeing an absence of scientific truth because, you know, with that science, the try, the science is actually, you know, the, the lamp of learning. It will obliterate all of the darkness, all of these kind of things that are shaded here. If we can go back to the science and begin to understand how the mechanism of death occurred, then we're going to have answers.

[Nancy Grace]

And then you've got LeBlanc. We'll never learn anything because his body was incinerated. To Chris Swecker joining us, former Assistant FBI Director Chris, final thought.

[Chris Swecker (continued)]

Yeah. As we've all discussed here, we all know that not all of these cases are related, but there's, there are some, especially the missing person cases as we've just finished discussing. They bother me quite a bit because some of them are missing under very similar circumstances. And they walked away without their phones. They've walked away without their personal items. They were involved in sensitive, highly sensitive dual use technologies in and around it. And so I just think that this is the type of the investigation has to be deep and it has to be wide in terms of trying to determine if there are any connections whatsoever. You know, it seems like the media has been doing the work of the FBI and they finally did open an investigation, according to the president. I'm curious why they didn't do it sooner, but let's hope we get some answers sometime soon, you know, over the next couple of months or so. It shouldn't take that long to see if there are indeed connections or there is indeed foul play involved in these. And again, my mind goes to espionage, but I'm not ruling out other possibilities.

[Nancy Grace]

And to Georgia Bradburn joining us, host of a hit podcast, Liminality, who has been investigating the death of Aiden. Georgia, what do his friends, what you do? What does his girlfriend think happened?

[Georgia Bradburn]

I have spoken to his friends. They have questions. They have concerns. They want some answers.

[Nancy Grace]

If you know or think you know anything regarding the death and the disappearances of these scientists, please dial toll free. That's 1-800- call FBI, 8002-2553-2480-0225-5324. We remember an American hero, Officer Amy Caprio, Baltimore County PD, just 29, killed in the line of duty after three years, leaving behind her husband, Tim. American hero Officer Amy Caprio. Thank you to all of our esteemed guests joining us tonight, but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend. This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.