FRIDAY NIGHT SPECIAL : Rex Heuermann Cleared in Murder of "Peaches" and 2-Year-Old

Summary

---

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

FRIDAY NIGHT SPECIAL: Rex Heuermann Cleared in Murder of "Peaches" and 2-Year-Old

Date: December 6, 2025
Host: Nancy Grace
Featured Guests: Anthony M. Carter (Suffolk County Deputy Police Commissioner), Kristen Thorne (ABC 7 Investigative Reporter), John Ray (family lawyer for Shannon Gilbert), Joe Scott Morgan (forensics professor), Dr. Bethany Marshall (psychoanalyst), Toby Wilson (forensic consultant), Todd Shipley (cybercrime expert)

---

Episode Overview

This Friday night special covers new developments in the Long Island Serial Killer (LISK) case, focusing on:

• Rex Heuermann being cleared in the famous "Peaches" double homicide (the murder of Peaches and her 2-year-old daughter).
• The growing mountain of evidence connecting Heuermann to other murders.
• Law enforcement's strategies in bringing Heuermann to justice.
• The chilling details of the ongoing investigation and the likelihood of more victims. The panel breaks down key forensic evidence, investigative breakthroughs, and the emotional impact on the victims' families.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rex Heuermann’s Profile and the LISK Case

• Infamy of Rex Heuermann:
  Nancy sets the tone by tying Heuermann’s notoriety to infamous serial killers:

  "Rex Heuermann. The name will live forever in infamy along names like Ted Bundy, BTK, Dennis Rader, Timothy McVeigh, Charles Manson." (02:11)

• Profile: Once a respected Manhattan architect, Heuermann is now the primary suspect in a series of sadistic sex crimes and killings, with authorities believing he may be linked to many more deaths.
• Most victims were young, petite sex workers found along Gilgo Beach. Many were under 5ft and 100 lbs, killed between 1993 and 2010.

2. Heuermann Cleared in "Peaches" and Daughter's Murder

• New DNA evidence excludes Heuermann from the 1994 murder of Colleen McNamee (“Peaches”) and her 2-year-old daughter Tatiana.
• The case has a new prime suspect, Andrew Dykes, believed to be the child's father, now arrested in Florida and facing extradition to NY.
• Key Quote:

  "DNA testing cleared Heuermann in connection with the murder… assuming that the unknown male A profile is a mixture... Rex Heuermann is excluded as unknown male A." (04:06, Panelist)

3. Breakthrough DNA and Digital Evidence Linking Heuermann

• Pizza Crust DNA:
  Investigators surveilled Heuermann, seizing his discarded pizza crust. This DNA matched hair found on three separate Gilgo murder victims.

  "Prosecutors say the smoking gun was a pizza crust. Police dug through Heuermann’s trash, matching DNA from a partially eaten slice..." (29:10, ABC7 Report)

• Wife’s Hair as Transfer Evidence:
  Multiple victims also had hairs matching Heuermann’s wife (Icelandic descent)—likely transferred from him, his car, or home.

  "Just finding the wife’s hair on one victim would be interesting. To find it on three... is a pattern." (30:48, Kristen Thorne)

• Burner Phones & Tech Evidence:
  Heuermann meticulously used burner phones and conducted disturbing online searches, including "blonde girl crying being raped" and how to avoid police tracing burner phones.

  "Who would know to ask that particular question, except for the Long Island serial killer?" (20:44, Nancy Grace) "They found no instance where the suspect was in a separate location from the cell phones when the communications occurred..." (46:56, Todd Shipley)

• Cell Phone Link to Victims:
  Heuermann was identified communicating with victims using both his personal and burner phones, with cell site data placing him at critical locations.

4. Behavioral Profile and Victimology

• Victim Targeting:
  Heuermann reportedly approached and stalked women in public parks, assessing their vulnerability (i.e., “Do you have a boyfriend?”).

  "He was constantly trolling for victims. He had this whole list of questions..." (16:49, Dr. Bethany Marshall)

• Heuermann’s online searches expanded to include young men described as “twinks,” suggesting a potentially evolving victim profile.
• His pattern likely included keeping victims for prolonged abuse; bodily transfers like multiple wife’s hairs raise the possibility of taking victims to his home.

5. Forensic and Law Enforcement Strategies

• House and Storage Unit Searches:
  Police have been combing through Heuermann’s home and a Long Island storage unit for missing items and trace evidence, as some victims' jewelry and clothing were never recovered.
• Task Force Efforts:
  The new Gilgo Beach Task Force, spearheaded by Commissioner Harrison, broke the case open by collaborating with FBI and other agencies.

  "If not for this newly formed task force… this guy would still be walking free. And I guarantee you would still be killing." (07:46, Nancy Grace)

• The investigation remains open and ongoing, with DNA being cross-checked against Tri-State area unsolved murders as new leads emerge.

  "The Go Go beach investigation is far from over." (28:30, Anthony Carter)

6. Family and Societal Impact

• Victims' families are haunted by both the investigation and the details emerging from Heuermann's alleged crimes.
  John Ray, lawyer for Shannon Gilbert’s family, notes the trauma of reading Heuermann’s search history and the continued uncertainty regarding Shannon’s own murder.

  "These families have this image now that's frozen in their mind that he is a killer... But you know, just the image itself of what happened..." (23:42, John Ray)

• There’s a consensus among panelists that more victims not yet identified are likely, and the ongoing search for justice is personal and relentless.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "It is one of the most baffling serial murder cases in modern American history." (06:31, Panelist)
• "If not for the members of this task force, he would still be on the streets today. You darn right." (07:46, Nancy Grace)
• "My mouth feels filthy. I need to go wash it out with soap. This was what is on his Google searches." (22:05, Nancy Grace reacting to list of depraved searches)
• "Every contact leaves a trace. And it is the cornerstone that we work from in forensics." (32:21, Joe Scott Morgan, noting Locard's Exchange Principle)
• "I think that the complication... is this guy is going to find anything in order to increase his sexual arousal... multiple assaults against one victim over an extended period." (41:45, Dr. Bethany Marshall)
• "You know what? I'm happy for all the help I can get every single day." (09:42, Nancy Grace on law enforcement collaboration)
• "DNA proved the claim [of another killer] innocent. But in seven other cases, it is DNA evidence linking Heuermann..." (04:06, Panelist)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:11] – Rex Heuermann introduced as an infamous suspect in the LISK case
• [04:06] – DNA clears Heuermann in "Peaches" and daughter's murder; new suspect Andrew Dykes
• [07:46] – Task force’s role in arresting Heuermann; he would still be free without their work
• [16:49] – Behavioral profiling; how Heuermann sought and approached victims
• [20:44] – Online searches as incriminating digital evidence
• [29:10] – Pizza crust DNA collection and significance
• [30:48] – The forensic implications of wife’s hair found on multiple victims
• [32:21] – Forensic axioms and how DNA ties Heuermann to crime
• [43:23] – Surveillance and how Heuermann's DNA was obtained from discarded pizza
• [46:20] – Tracking Heuermann via burner phones and personal phone analysis
• [49:23] – Breaking news: Heuermann cleared for "Peaches" murder, new suspect arrested

---

Final Thoughts

Nancy Grace concludes by highlighting the overwhelming evidence and the ongoing nature of the investigation, especially in the face of unthinkable brutality and the possibility of more victims yet to be discovered. "We wait as justice unfolds." (49:55)

---

This episode offers a detailed, emotionally charged look at the progress and setbacks in one of America’s most disturbing serial murder cases, leaving listeners with the sense that, while some answers have come, the true scope of justice is still unfolding.

Transcript

[A]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[B]

Guaranteed Human decluttering is everything. It clears your space, your mind, and it can give you shopping power. With Trashy. Just buy a trashy bag, fill it with anything you no longer need, then ship it free and earn rewards points instantly. Earn points even faster when you shop exclusive Trashee deals and redeem them for gift cards to brands you love or even donate them to charity. It's never been easier to turn clutter into shopping power. Get started today at Trashy IO that's T R A S H I E.

[C]

I O.

[D]

It's the coziest time of year on Britbox. That means curling up with a gripping murder mystery, basking in a sumptuous period drama, or discovering a new hidden gem. See the holidays differently when you stream the best of British TV with BritBox. Watch Britbox original series, including the new season of the award winning Belfast police drama Blue Lights. However you cozy this holiday, it's a bit warmer with Britbox. Watch with a free [e-mail] hey, Ryan.

[A]

Reynolds here wishing you a very happy.

[E]

Half off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited.

[F]

To be clear, that's half price, not half the service.

[A]

Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means half day. Yeah, give it a [e-mail] Switch up.

[G]

Front payment of $45 for three month.

[B]

Plan equivalent to 15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only.

[G]

Speed slow 135 gigabytes of network's busy taxes and fees extra.

[H]

Cmnobile.com Every story begins somewhere for your child. It could begin with a Guardian Bike built right here in the usa, engineered for safety and designed for confidence. Kids of all ages are learning to ride in just one day. No tears, no frustration. It's why Guardian is America's favorite kids bike and the New York Times and Wirecutters top pick three years in a row. This holiday season, give the gift that's safer, smarter and built to last. Visit Guardian Bike to save up to 40% on all bikes plus a free accessory bundle worth over $100.

[A]

Rex Huberman. The name will live forever in infamy along names like Ted Bundy, BTK buying torture kill, Dennis Raider, Timothy McVeigh, Charles Manson. Oh gosh, I could go on.

Rex Heerman, the alleged Long island serial killer awaiting trial. We know what he did to his victims. Horrific horrific murders after horrific horrific sex torture while his wife and children were out of town in a basement dungeon then burying them so he could look at their graves every day when he went to work on Long island there at Gilgo Beach. And that is tonight's Friday night special. And it is very, very special. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Rex Heuerman. Cops say he is the Long island serial killer.

I believe he can be connected and will be connected to many, many other dead bodies. But for tonight, for our Friday night special.

I hope you're sitting down.

If you look at the faces of all the women he allegedly murdered. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. I mean, on and on. 5, 6, 7. And counting. All these women dead at the hands of Rex Heuerman.

What do we know?

[C]

Nancy, as you said, Rex Hurman is suspected in and charged in multiple gruesome murders of young sex boys workers on Long Island. But now he has been cleared in the strangulation death of Colleen McNamee. The 20 year old was beaten, strangled and dumped near William Floyd Parkway in 1994. DNA testing cleared Heuerman in connection with the murder. Quoting from the coroner's report, a comparison between cyber genetics developed profile unknown male A and the DNA profile of Rex Hurman was performed. Assuming that the unknown male A profile is a mixture without any iliac drop dropout and strictly based on possibly on possible genotypes present in the profile. Rex Huberman is excluded as unknown male A. End quote. The DNA test was conducted following a request by convicted killer John Mitral. He was convicted in 2017 of killing McNamee and Rita Tangri. Her battered body was found in 1993. Bid Rolf tried to pin McNamee's murder on Heuerman. DNA proved the claim innocent. But in seven other cases, it is DNA evidence linking Heuermann, the accused serial killer, to seven other bodies. Valerie Mack, Jessica Taylor, Megan waterman, Melissa Barthelemy, 24, Maureen Brainard Barnes, 25, Sandra Costillo, 28, and Amberlynn Costello, 27. They were murdered between 1993 and 2010. Heuerman, a Manhattan architect, denied he was behind the gruesome killings. He has been held since his arrest without bail. Meanwhile, Bitteroff, a 58 year old former carpenter, is now serving 50 years to life for the two murders.

[A]

What exactly do we know about the murders? Rex Heuermann, a very well respected architect, now behind bars in the deaths of many women connected in time in location.

Many of them sex workers.

All of them daughters, mothers, sisters, girlfriends. Take a listen to this.

[C]

It is one of the most baffling serial murder cases in modern American history.

[A]

Centered on this lonely stretch of sand.

[B]

On the south shore of Long Island.

[C]

New York, Gilgo Beach, A small community.

[G]

With a big mystery on its hands.

[C]

The bodies of 15 brutally murdered young women. And there seems to be a pattern. Many of them under 5ft tall and less than 100 pounds. All dumped in the surrounding dunes. Over a period of 20 years, there's.

[I]

Been some new developments in the Gilgo investigation. Last night, a little bit around 8:30pm in the vicinity of 35th and 5th Avenue in the city, members assigned to the Gilgo beach task force did place one individual under arrest.

[F]

After years of searching and fear, years of true crime, hobbyists and their theories.

[A]

Rex, did you do it?

[F]

Turned out the suspected Gilgo beach killer was hiding in plain sight the whole time. 59 year old Rex Heuerman, a suburban husband, father of two, and cops say.

[I]

The demon that walks among us.

A predator that ruined families.

[A]

If not for the members of this.

[F]

Task force.

[A]

He would still be on the streets today. You darn right. If not for this newly formed task force instituted by the new elected District attorney, this guy would still be walking free. And I guarantee you would still be killing. And I've got facts to support that theory. You were just hearing our friends at Crime Watch, Daily WABC 7 and the Suffolk County Police Commissioner, Rodney Harrison. With me, an all star panel. But first I want to go to a special guest joining us, Anthony M. Carter. This is the Deputy Police Commissioner in Suffolk County. Deputy Commissioner. Man, it's been a long time coming. I want to hear your reaction to the arrest of a prominent architect. A father, a husband. It's kind of hard to believe, but you guys have known for some time and keeping it on the down low what was happening because you had intel this guy was watching the police's every move.

[F]

Yeah, you know, it all began when Commissioner Harrison took office here at the Suffolk County Police Department. And one of his top priorities was the Gilgo beach investigation. And he had a vision, as you know, the former Chief of Detectives of the nypd, former chief of department, and the experience that he had. One of the things he knew is that we needed to get a fresh look at the case and we needed to get our law enforcement partners involved. And Commissioner Harrison created this task force, called it the Gilgo Beach Task Force. And it comprised of investigators from the state police, the, the District Attorney's office, the sheriff's department.

[A]

You know, you cut out on me right there for a second, but I think you said the FBI. And in the past, before the new regime, there was A lot of resistance to bringing in the FBI, but when you've got women dying, going missing, and now all these bodies turning up unsolved, hey, you know what? I'm happy for all the help I can get every single day. So I just congratulate you and your Commissioner Harrison on this arrest. And it was. It was a joint effort. And, you know, I like that about you and your boss. You don't try to hog the limelight or say it's all about you. You really always give the credit to everyone involved. And, you know, standing by right now, Kristen Thorne is with me. Very well known investigative Reporter, ABC Channel 7 Eyewitness News, host of Hulu's new crime show, Missing. Kristen, it's great to have you. And you have stood by you and I both have plotted around there at the beach, looking for clues, trying to find answers. Can you believe we finally got an arrest? And I gotta tell you, Kristin, just in time, because this POS technical, legal term was caught on camera at a cell phone store, paying in cash, from what I can tell, for more burner phone minutes. That's his M.O. you want to tell me this guy's out of business? O H, E, double L, N. Oh, he's still at it, Kristen.

[G]

Yeah, Nancy and I think that's what's really scary about this entire situation and why law enforcement decided it was time. Look, they wanted to have Maureen Brainard Barnes included in this indictment. And she is absolutely mentioned in this indictment.

[A]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on, lady. Back it up. You're going warp 4 before we can get there. There's so many bodies. But you often hear of the Gilgo 4. Correct me if I'm wrong, Kristen, but you are correct. The Gilgo 4 were all found in burlap bags, similarly bound, naked, having been sex assaulted, which really links them together. Right? Now, this architect, this dad, this husband, is charged with six counts.

[C]

Three.

[A]

Three murders, three felony murder charges, three second degree murder charges, three victims. But it's just a matter of days, I believe, before he's charged with the fourth. Then we got to deal with all the other dead bodies. But you refer to a woman.

Brainerd Barnes, Maureen brainerd Barnes, age 25. He's the prime suspect. And she's number four in the Gilgo Four. Did I make that clear?

[G]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, go ahead.

[G]

Yes. And so the. The law enforcement knew that they had to get him now because they were worried.

[D]

It's the coziest time of year on Britbox. That means curling up with a gripping murder mystery, basking in a sumptuous period drama, or discovering a new hidden gem. See the holidays differently when you stream the best of British TV with BritBox. Watch Britbox original series, including the new season of the award winning Belfast police drama Blue Lights. However you cozy this holiday, it's a bit warmer with Britbox. Watch with a free [e-mail].

Every story.

[H]

Begins somewhere for your child. It could begin with a Guardian bike, built right here in the usa, engineered for safety and designed for confidence. Kids of all ages are learning to ride in just one day. No tears, no frustration. It's why Guardian is America's favorite kids bike and the New York Times and Wirecutters top pick three years in a row. This holiday season, give the gift that's safer, smarter and built to last. Visit guardianbikes.com to save up to 40% on all bikes, plus a free accessory bundle worth over $100.

[D]

You can't solve every case for your kids, but with Greenlight, they'll have the instincts and the money skills to stay out of trouble. With a Greenlight debit card and money app, parents can monitor spending and teach financial responsibility. It's an easy way to guide kids as they grow from earning allowance and tracking chores to teaching how to save and even invest. Start your risk free Greenlight trial [e-mail] iheart that's greenlight.com iheart Streaming December 11th.

[A]

On Paramount plus is the new limited series Little Disasters. Based on the book by the author of Anatomy of a Scandal and starring Diane Kruger and Joe Joyner, Little Disasters is a gripping story of unraveling secrets and fractured relationships that will leave you on the edge of your seat. Bella magazine declares if you loved Big Little Lies, then this psychological drama is for you. Little Disasters binge on all episodes December.

[G]

11Th on Paramount plus about what he may do next. What he was looking on his phone.

[A]

I mean, creepy dude, Kristin. Creepy dude. You know, my daughter and my son, they'll see, they're just 15. They'll see somebody and go, okay, that's a creepy dude right there. Tell us, Kristen, about this creepy dude going up to a woman in a park setting in the last couple of months and completely skeeving her out.

[G]

He was walking around and she was in the woods. There's a nice wooded park in Massapequa park. And she was walking around and he, as she says, came up behind him and was asking about her boyfriend. And you know, he's a very big man.

[A]

Six, four. Hey, what do you put him at? Anthony Carter. Guys, I'm speaking to Anthony Carter, but he is the deputy police commissioner. I mean, I'm acting like I'm sitting here having a cup of coffee with this guy. He's been on this from the get go since he came in and they formed a new task force. How much does this guy weigh? What you put him at? 240?

[F]

Yeah, I mean, he's a, he's a very large individual, I would definitely say. Yeah, right around there, around that 240 pound mark. Very, just, very, just an oversized, you know, very large man. And, you know. Yeah, I mean, I know Everybody's seen that YouTube video, you know, and where he's towering over the person that's conducting the interview with him.

[A]

Crime stories with nancy grace.

In the last days, a New York State Supreme Court justice rules damning DNA evidence tying Rex Heuermann to the murders of many women whose remains were found near Gilgo beach will come into trial. And just think about it. These are the bodies we know about. Are there other bodies? I would be very surprised if there were not. Dr. Bethany Marshall. You go up to a woman in a park, sneak up behind her and go, hey, who's your boyfriend?

[G]

I would run, Anthony. What it tells me is that he was constantly trolling for victims. And as a part of trolling for victims, he had this whole list of questions. I mean, number one would be, hey, do you have a boyfriend? Who's your boyfriend? The reason for that is who is he going to have to separate the woman from? Is, does she have family? Does she have people who's interested in her? And if so, it's going to make it more difficult to kidnap, sex, assault her. Secondly, he's looking for women who are quite short, who are petite, women he can easily handle, easily kidnap and transport from one area to another. And then he actually probably has many other aspects of his victim profile that are going to come out during the course of this investigation, especially as it pertains to his online searches. Maybe underage kids. Twinks was one of the things I heard, you know, young.

[A]

Hey, what was the last thing you said?

[G]

Twinks.

[A]

You need to tell everybody what that means.

[G]

Okay. A twink is a young man who looks very feminine, usually underweight, very small, and the old fashioned word for them is twink. So that was one of his victim profiles that he was looking for, was these kinds of young men.

[A]

Hey, guys, this includes you. Kristin Thorne, Toby Wilson, Todd Shipley, Joe Scott Morgan, Deputy Commissioner Carter, Dr. Bethany John Ray, the lawyer for the family of Shannon Gilbert. She may not be connected to Heuerman. We don't know that yet. But it's because of her that all of these bodies were found. She's dead. She was killed there on Long Island. And I believe it hadn't been for her body being discovered, we may never have found the other bodies. That said, everybody jump in whenever you have a thought. But you hear Dr. Bethany Marshall correctly describing the fact of these Google searches we have just learned about. The police, of course, knew about it. With me, Todd Shipley, cyber crime expert, author of Investigating Internet Crimes. You can find [e-mail] Todd, just follow up, please, with what Dr. Bethany just said about this guy's perverted Google searches. I'm sure you've seen them, right?

[G]

Sure.

[I]

I think what's important is the fact that that was available once they identified the suspect and they were able to go to Google and subpoena them, because they did over 300 subpoenas early on. So there's a lot of information that we still don't know about yet. But once they started looking at this guy, it was pretty evident that he was the one, because the searches were evident, looking for information about the case. He was trying to find out what the law enforcement agencies knew about him and what they were divulging online and how much information was there and he was doing, you know, his dating and all the other things that go along with what was happening. So it was pretty apparent, you know, once they started looking at his searches that this was a person of interest for them. And it's pretty telling that there's that much information about us when we start thinking about, you know, evidence online and what we do.

[A]

You know what, that's perfectly put, but if I were putting this to a jury, I'd say it's something more like blonde girl crying, being raped, Black slave girl being raped. America's five most notorious old cases. Why hasn't Long island serial killer been caught? Why could law enforcement not trace calls made by a Long island serial killer? I mean, who would know to ask that particular question? Except for the Long island serial killer.

[I]

Exactly.

[A]

I mean, when I would think about the Long island serial killer, I would have so many thoughts, so many questions, but I. I didn't know at the time because people like Deputy Commissioner Anthony Carter kept it so secret, as he should have. I didn't know about the use of burner phones. Well, somebody did. This guy was looking up. Why can't they trace his burner phones?

[E]

No.

[I]

And, I mean, that's specifically what they ended up doing. Because if you look at how they started to piece us together, which was brilliant by the agents that were involved, they and officers, they started to find those pieces and they started to relate to, you know, proven the negative who was around those burner phones when they had the geolocation that they had from 10 years ago. And so the fact they went back and looked at all that evidence and started to prove that the target was close by, you know, those same phone calls was a brilliant move to prove that he did it. And then they were able to go back after, you know, his phones himself and starting to look at what's there. Now what's going to be interesting too is the digital evidence that they find in the search of his house. I can't wait to see what they found in his computer because that's going to be telling too.

[A]

Other searches. And I want to go to John Ray, the family lawyer for victim Shannon Gilbert. I know that Shannon's family has been tortured, especially when they see this guy's searches which say things like blonde haired girl, young depressed teen girl, oiled bodies, nude slave girls. I have to leave out some of this because even I wouldn't say it. Blank shot and crying porn girl, hogtied torture porn, skinny redhead, tied up porn. Short fat girl, tied up porn, tied up and raped porn. As Dr. Bethany pointing it out, Asian twink, tied up porn, tied slave, force fed. Okay, I'm not gonna finish that one. I mean, teen girl begging for rape porn, Pretty girl with bruised face porn. My mouth feels filthy. I need to go wash it out with soap. This was what is on his Google searches. John Ray. Now Shannon's family has to read this and only imagine what Shannon may have or the other victims put up with, what they endured, what they lived through before they died. I want to vomit.

[E]

I can blame everybody does. I think this, this, this monster, this giant monster who I characterize as Tyrannosaurus rex.

His image is now frozen in the minds of the Gilbert family. And I also represent Jessica Taylor's family and they have the same reaction.

[A]

20 year old Jessica Taylor also found there along the beach. Go ahead.

[I]

Yeah.

[E]

And these families have this image now that's frozen in their mind that he is a killer. There's no way to be sure that he had anything to do with Shannon Gilbert. At this point we're looking hard at that, but as we speak. But you know, just the image itself of what happened. And when you take what we do know of what happened to Shannon, that the night, that early morning that she disappeared, we know that she was under a threat from somebody like him, either he himself or somebody like him. And there is probably more than one of them. But the we're still very optimistic now and delighted that Ray Tierney, the district attorney and Rodney Harrison, the police commissioner finally put together the agencies that weren't working together so that this can be done. So we're looking forward. We think that there's a really good chance that Tyrannosaurus rex killed the others as well because he was a hunter and hunters, he was a proficient hunter. They have tools and they take apart their animals. So he's certainly capable of having dismembered these, these others that are there.

[F]

So of course, and you know, another.

[A]

Issue, Kristen Thorne joining me, investigative reporter, ABC star of Hulu's true crime show Missing. Kristen, just because he ran out of burlap bags, okay, that does not mean he's not connected to all the other bodies. And I'm telling you, Kristen, there are more victims. There are more victims.

[G]

You know, Nancy, I think what concerns me and what has kept me up at night the last few days since this happened is not necessarily, of course, the remains that are still left to the six other remains there along Ocean Parkway on Long Island. But it's the women we haven't heard about yet. Right. So in some of the cases I've covered in my show, I had some concerns and I do hope that they will be using some of the DNA evidence that they have to look at some of these other women who have disappeared in the Tri State area who I believe and their family believes were victims of violence, one in particular who was worked in the same line of work as the other women. And so that's what concerns me. Who is out there, the women or anybody else, because we haven't yet identified his profile. Right. We know about the Gilgo 4, but we don't know who else he may have been interested in killing or where his interest, quote, unquote. Can I make a comment about that?

[A]

Yeah, jump in. But I need to go to Anthony Carter about what they're doing right now. Bethany, hold on just a moment. Deputy Commissioner Carter, I pray to God in heaven that this new task force, and I'm sure you're not going to tell me, is comparing his DNA to every other DNA that's been found in, let's just say the Tri State area because once these bodies were discovered, you know, he found another dumping ground. All right, comparing his DNA, looking at who else he's been calling on his many, many, many burner phones.

And figuring out where he was seen in that Chevy Avalanche, which I want to ask you, Deputy Commissioner. I happen to know that the Avalanche discontinued manufacturer in 2013. Yet here's an Avalanche parked outside his place, I believe a relative's place. An avalanche was seen at one of the victims homes. Let me think. I believe it's Amber Costello. Long story short, I can go on and on and on about. Wow. Here's the Avalanche parked outside his home a few miles away from where the bodies are found. And a witness places an avalanche at one of the victim's homes. How come it took so long? But that is something for me to chew apart on another day. Just I want to know that his DNA is being compared to other DNA, especially in that tri state area.

[F]

No, and that's a great, that's a great question. And the one thing that maybe some thumb out there may think that, you know, the arrest was made, we arrested this subject that the task force has, you know, concluded their investigation. And we're just going to go ahead and just look at Rex, the, the investigation. The task force is going to remain intact and they are going to continue gathering evidence in both with Rex. And the Go Go beach investigation is far from over. And.

[A]

Okay, I'm going to take that as a yes. Even though you're not saying yes. I'm taking it as a yes to.

[F]

Say to examine every piece of evidence. That's right, though. Absol.

[A]

Speaking of every piece of evidence, let's take a look at it. We can talk about the MO that all the women were many of them contacted on Craigslist. They were sex workers. They were found dead in the same way. Physical similarities. All these four put in burlap bags, disposed of on a lonely stretch of beach about 20 plus minutes away from his home at Massapequa Park. But what about the evidence? The hard evidence? Take a listen to Arcut 3G, our friends at ABC7.

[F]

Prosecutors say the smoking gun will was a pizza crust. Police dug through Heuerman's trash, matching DNA from a partially eaten slice to previously unidentified hairs found on three of the Gilgo victims. Today they booked Heuerman on murder charges. Accused in the deaths of Melissa Barthelemy, Megan Waterman and Amberlynn Costello. And he's a prime suspect in the death of a fourth, Maureen Brainard Barnes.

[A]

Okay, let's talk about the hard DNA evidence. Evidence from a hair. One of those hairs was found at the bottom of one of the burlap bags that one of the victims Were. Were discarded in. Also apparently. And correct me if I'm wrong. Jump on it. Kirsten Thorne. Three victims had the defendant's wife's hair on them. Obviously a transfer from her to him and from him onto the victim. So that's at least four pieces of DNA that we know of. Then one of the victims was tied up with a leather belt. Hopefully, maybe DNA, touch DNA was taken off of that. Am I missing any DNA, Kristen?

[G]

No, that sounds. Okay, that is absolutely correct. But I would love to talk about the wife's hair.

[A]

Sure. Because I've got a professor of forensics with me and a forensic consultant specializing in DNA waiting to jump on this because this. This is going to get him in addition to all of the circumstantial evidence. Tell me, Kristin, here's my.

[G]

Here's my question. And I would love to hear from you, Nancy, and from your experts to me. Finding the wife's hair on one victim would have been interesting to find it on three.

Trying to actually, you know, when you try to think, how does this happen? How does the wife's hair end up on each time? And again, I am not implying anything about her. I'm trying to actually go through how this happened. Does anybody have any thoughts on that?

[A]

I got a thought, but I'll bring in the experts. A transfer, just like. Okay, just a few minutes ago, right before we went to air, my co worker, Sydney, handed me a big stack of papers to go through about three minutes before we started. And she leaned over me with her long blonde hair, and I turned. I guarantee you some piece of hair or some. Something brushed up against my jacket, and it's there. Okay. You know who loves talking about this? Joe Scott Morgan. He loves. What's your. You have some quote you always start with. Why? I. Okay, I'll let you tell it. Joe Scott Morgan, with me, professor, forensics, Jacksonville State University. And I've got to tell you, I've been to their Creme Pro building and facilities. That's an incredible program. Joe Scott, author of Blood Beneath My Feet and host of a hit series, Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Go ahead. No action doesn't leave a trace.

[J]

Blah, blah. What's the rest of that card's principle? Every contact leaves a trace. And it's. It is the cornerstone that we work from in forensics. And it's. It's. That axiom is over 100 years old and it still applies.

[A]

Tell it, Joe Scott. Preach it. Preach it, brother. Because this guy is going down because of this DNA. And when I think of these computer searches and him acting out those horrible, horrible, evil computer searches on these ladies. To hell with him. Now I got to figure out a way to prove it. Hit it.

[J]

Let me give you a hellscape here. And I think that it exists in that house. And this is my. My supposition here. You know, we were speaking just a moment ago about the transfer of the wife's hair. You know, you. You mentioned Sydney in the studio. What, what's. What space do you guys share? Probably on a daily basis when you're. You're laying down sound, it's in that studio. Okay, so within that environment, you kind of coexist in that environment. I am very curious, Nancy, relative to the accused, were any of these victims brought back to this home?

[A]

That's such a good idea. Joe Scott, because remember Joe Scott, many of these. And jump in Anthony Carter, Deputy commissioner. And Kristin Thorne, because you may know better than Joe Scott and I. Many of these murders occurred while his wife was gone. And she has very distinct hair. She is Icelandic, so her DNA is going to be very identifiable. And this is mitochondrial DNA, which comes from your mother only. So anybody jump in with a thought? Bethany, I promise I'm circling back.

[E]

This is Toby first.

[I]

First of all, the hair. I was a forensic hair examiner for a short time. Also, the average person that has hair loses about 100 hairs a day randomly. So the hair connection on just the one victim would be coincident. Could be called coincidence. On three victims, it becomes more of a pattern. But the locations of the hairs, because of that, if she rode in the avalanche, if it was on his clothing, if he took any of the victims home, all those are reasonable explanations for where the hair is that the DNA was done on came from because of the fact that we lose hair so easily.

So that connection is more open to interpretation. Where you come from, it's very probable because he transported them, or may have transported them in the avalanche, that the hairs were on him or in that vehicle, and that's where the transfer occurred. Or if the beat. You know, if the furlough bags came from his home, they could have been transferred there. But hair transfers are a common thing, and, you know, it makes it harder to interpret what's going on because of how common it is.

[A]

But I agree with you. You're hearing Toby Wilson, forensic consultant specializing in DNA serology, [e-mail] well, he's right, of course. Jo Scott Morgan. But three hairs, as Kristin Thorne pointed out, each one on a different victim. I want to explore your theory that these victims may have been taken to his home. I mean, when you've got three hairs on three different victims, the only thing the defense can do now is an O.J. defense. It was planted. I mean, let me hear your theory. Joe Scott.

[J]

Well, this is one thing that I'm very encouraged by and that these folks are doing is that I saw these images on the news of the police, the investigators going in and out of that home. And Nancy, I hope they retain this place and take it down to the damn studs that everything that they can harvest out of that environment from an evidentiary standpoint.

Is going to be acquired. Here's one more thing, and I'll be quiet.

[A]

I don't want you to be quiet. I love everything you're saying.

[J]

It's something that really sent a chill up my, up my spine. And maybe it's, maybe it's a wild goose chase, but this one victim, I was looking at this charging document that's mentioned the Maureen, Ms. Maureen Brainerd Barnes. And one thing that kind of sent a chill up my spine was that this burner phone that the accused had, or that he is alleged to have had, had contacts with Marine's phone 16 times, Nancy, over a period of time from July 6th through July 9th. Okay? They have her phone finally dropping off the face for a while, and there's like a couple of days lag in there. But then here's the chilling part. He, apparently the perpetrator opened her phone up again and began to check her messages. Let me ask you something, Nancy. Would you just blindly give, without any kind of fighting back, would you give somebody the code to your cell phone to check your messages? I mean, I know I, I wouldn't. I don't know about the other folks on the panel, but how did he get that information from her in order to get in to her voicemail to check it? If that is true, what they're alleging, and that to me, is chilling, that to me shows that he may have been in control of that person in particular, about the rest of them, I have no idea.

[A]

Well, all you've got to do is look at his Google searches, Joe Scott. And figure, and, and I can tell you, I mean, he looks up a hog tying, raping woman. Obviously he is fixated on torture. I mean, Dr. Bethany Marshall, you don't see that kind of Google search every day. And I've looked at plenty of people's computers in their searches.

[G]

No, absolutely not. And to frame our discussion, if you think of this guy as a combination of an obsessive sex addict who thrives off power and inflicting pain in order to enhance his sexual arousal. His victim profile is going to keep changing as he goes to more and more extreme types of pornography and more different types of victims in order to enhance his sexual arousal. So maybe he's.

It'S the coziest time.

[D]

Of year on Britbox. That means curling up with a gripping murder mystery, basking in a spring sumptuous period drama, or discovering a new hidden gem. See the holidays differently when you stream the best of British TV with BritBox. Watch Britbox original series, including the new season of the award winning Belfast police drama Blue Lights. However you cozy this holiday, it's a bit warmer with Britbox. Watch with a free [e-mail] every story.

[H]

Begins somewhere for your child. It could begin with a Guardian bike, built right here in the usa, engineered for safety and designed for confidence. Kids of all ages are learning to ride in just one day. No tears, no frustration. It's why Guardian is America's favorite kids bike and the New York Times and Wirecutter's top pick three years in a row. This holiday season, give the gift that's safer, smarter and built to last. Visit guardianbikes.com to save up to 40% on all bikes, plus a free accessory bundle worth over $100.

[A]

Grand Canyon University, an affordable, private Christian university based in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona, is one of the largest universities in the country. Praised for its culture of community and impact, GCU integrates the free market system, a welcoming Christian worldview and free and open discourse into 369 academic programs, with over 300 of them online. Join a nationwide community of learners redefining what online education looks like through academically rigorous, industry driven programs that can spark bold ideas and prepare you for a future that matters. In addition to federal grants and aid, GCU's online students receive nearly $161 million in institutional scholarships in 2024 alone. Find your purpose at Grand Canyon University Private Christian affordable. Visit gcu Edu myoffer to see the scholarships for which you could qualify. Streaming December 11th on Paramount. Plus is the new limited series Little Disasters. Based on the book by the author of Anatomy of a Scandal and starring Diane Kruger and Joe Joyner, Little Disasters is a gripping story unraveling secrets and fracture relationships that will leave you on the edge of your seat. Bella magazine declares, if you loved Big Little Lies, then this psychological drama is for you. Little Disasters binge on all episodes December 11th on Paramount plus starts with someone.

[G]

Within his own race, an age mate. Then he goes to a younger person than a smaller person, than a bigger person than a man, then a woman, then a child. And. And so I think that the complication and why the investigation is going to have to focus so much on the data and the science is this guy is going to find anything in order to increase his sexual arousal. And not just finding different victims, but stalking them, toying with them, perhaps taking them back to his house. This is not a one and done kind of guy where maybe someone looks at pornography, masturbates, closes the computer. This is a guy who's going to get as much sexual satisfaction out of any one victim as possible. So it's multiple assaults against one victim over an extended period of time, which.

[A]

Goes back to Joe Scott Morgan's theory that some of the victims may have been taken to the home because an extended period of time assault probably would not take place in a vehicle that is the Chevy Avalanche.

Crime stories with nancy grace.

I know the condition in which these bodies were found, but what do we know about Heuerman? Deputy Commissioner, I don't know if you can comment on this, but can you describe how his DNA was obtained?

[F]

Off a pizza crust during surveillance, you know, he was being observed, and there was an opportunity where he had discarded a. I guess like a small personal pizza box into a garbage in the city. And our undercovers were able to retrieve that box.

And just to go back on a point to, you know, whether.

You know, his home may have been involved in the location of the homicides, the one thing that we can say is that it's not a coincidence that his wife and family were away in three of the murders. And we're taking, you know, like I said, active investigation. We're at the home. I think somebody had mentioned on the call here that we're taking the house. We should take the house.

And I think that is the plan to, you know, get every piece of evidence that we can possibly get while we're inside of that home.

[A]

With me, Deputy Commissioner Anthony Carter from Suffolk County Police. I gotta tell you something, Deputy Commissioner. I'm the first one to scream when police screw up an investigation because it hurts me as a former prosecutor and a crime victim myself, but I am so impressed with your surveillance of Heuerman, your identification of him. I know it's been a long time coming, but this is a fresh homicide task force. This is a whole new look because this case was ignored by prior administrations. You guys come in there like a barn on fire. You find this guy, you surveil him, you re look at the evidence, then you catch him discarding a pizza crust and get his DNA, which matches up to other DNA. You get his wife's DNA. Do we have any idea. Can you comment on how you did that, Deputy Commissioner?

[F]

So same, you know, same methodology in trying to obtain abandonment samples, you know, very similar fashion where we were able to obtain recycled cans from their local, you know, from where they live.

[A]

So that's how you got the wife's DNA.

[F]

That's correct.

[A]

Wow, there's so much. I hardly know which way to go. But let me understand something. Kristin Thorne, anybody on the panel that knows the answer to this, the way I'm reading the affidavit and other information, was this idiot actually traveling with a burner phone and his own private mobile phone together, Like Kohberger, you know, you can see him traveling away from the crime scene. Did that happen? Does anybody know?

[G]

Well, we know that they certainly there are. They certainly track the burner phone's relationship and location near Massapequa park, as well as his midtown office. And they called that the box. That was the four. The point that they used to triangulate, although in that word, it would be three sides, but the box would be four. To really.

Pinpoint that his locations, where he was, where he lives, where he worked, were also coordinating with the hits from these burner phones.

[A]

Okay, break that down to regular people talk.

[I]

This is Todd. So I think what's significant is what she's saying and what they alleged in the court documents is that they found no instance where the suspect was in a separate location from the other cell phones when the communications occurred, when he was talking to them from the burner phones. And so that's significant that they tied them together from those. So tower records that his phone was there and the burner phone was there. In instances outside of the calls, his phone, you know, was. Was not there. So it's pretty significant.

[A]

Okay, that is entirely significant to Anthony Carter, deputy police Commissioner. What do you make of that theory?

[F]

So, you know, I think when we talk about some of the locations that we talked about, you know, the burner phones versus his phone, and trying to tie that all in, I think it was, you know, it was challenging because we look, we're looking at an area of over 1500 homes that also included a portion of the Massapequa Preserve, and that also then opens up, which are hitting those cell towers to people that may or may not even live in Massapequa, may or may not Even live in Nassau County. So I mean, that is one of the things behind.

The exhaustive effort committed by the members of the task force to try to drill down and get the, the right information so that and the right evidence to, you know, move us forward in the case.

[A]

Kristen Thorne, WABC Channel 7. What can you tell me about recent revelations of a storage unit search?

[G]

So we know that there's an active investigation right now around a storage unit on Long island. And for all we know, and we believe that it is connected to this investigation. You know, I think what they're going to be looking for and I also noticed in the indictment and we talk about his house and how they do need to and are going to tear apart that house. There were items missing from the victims. So jewelry, some pieces of clothing. Those are things that would probably be familiar to the family that the family told them she used to always wear this necklace, this bracelet. That's very common we find. And so those things were missing. And so those are the things that they're going to be looking for in the house and in this potential storage unit.

[A]

This is rapidly developing. But for right now, what do we know?

[C]

Breaking today in the Long island serial killer case, an arrest has been made in the death of Tanya Jackson and her 2 year old daughter Tatiana Dykes. That case had been connected to Heuerman, but he had not been charged for years. She was simply known as Peaches because of a distinctive tattoo on her body. Andrew Dykes. Dykes, 66, has now appeared before a Florida judge in connection with the case. Dykes is believed to be the father of Tatiana. Authorities are petitioning for his extradition to New York.

[A]

The staggering number of bodies found is is going to overwhelm any juror. But it's the truth. And you cannot hide the truth from a jury. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend.

[B]

Did you know Tide has been upgraded to provide an even better clean in cold water. Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it. Even in cold butter. Yep. Chocolate ice cream. Sure thing. Barbecue sauce. Tide's got you covered. You don't need to use warm water. Additionally, Tide pods let you confidently fight tough stains with new coldzyme technology. Just remember, if it's gotta be clean, it's gotta be Tide. Cleaning out your home is everything. It clears your space, your mind, and it can give you holiday shopping power. With trashy. Just buy a trashy bag, fill it with anything you no longer need, then ship it free and earn trashy cash points instantly. Keep earning points when you shop exclusive trashee deals and redeem for shopping wherever you want or even donate them to charity. Turn a home clean out into shopping power that also does good@trashy IO that's t r a s h I e.

[C]

I.

[D]

It'S the coziest time of year on Britbox. That means curling up with a gripping murder mystery, basking in a a sumptuous period drama, or discovering a new hidden gem. See the holidays differently when you stream the best of British TV with BritBox. Watch Britbox original series, including the new season of the award winning Belfast police drama Blue Lights. However you cozy this holiday, it's a bit warmer with Britbox. Watch with a free [e-mail] with diabetes.

[A]

Everyday decisions feel like a mystery without a solution. But with Dexcom G7, the most accurate CGM system you can you can quickly and easily see your glucose in real time on your phone, helping you make confident decisions that keep your glucose levels in range and lower your A1C, which can help protect your long term health. Dexcom G7 gives you the knowledge to better control diabetes today. For healthier tomorrows. Start your healthier [e-mail] knowledge dexcom data on file for full prescribing information on risks, benefits and compatible smart devices, visit Dexcom.com this is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.