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I am Nina Khrushcheva, the great granddaughter of Nikita Khrushchev, the leader of the Soviet Union in 1962. And I'm Max Kennedy, the nephew of US President John F. Kennedy. We explore what was a terrifying moment in history, the story of the Cuban Missile Crisis, how close the world came to nuclear war, and what they had to do to pull it back from the brink. The bomb, Kennedy and KHRUSHCHEV. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. The world is buzzing with AI tools, but instead of making things easier, they've made things overwhelming. There's a better way. Meet Superhuman, the AI productivity suite that gives you superpowers so you can outsmart the work chaos with Grammarly mail and coda. Working together, you get proactive help across your workflow. No matter how you work, experience AI that meets you right where you are, unleash your superhuman potential today. Learn more@superhuman.com podcast that's superhuman.com podcast Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a glamorous morning TV anchor runs from a bedroom bloodbath. Deadly Stabbing I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Angelyn Mock, a familiar face in the Kansas City news scene, gained popularity as the morning show anchor for Fox 2. Her career was marked by her engaging presence and dedication to delivering the news, not knowing she would find herself back in the limelight for all the wrong reasons. That deadly that fatal bloodbath in the home bedroom leaves her mother 80 years old, stabbed dead. What do we know Mock is currently undergoing a court ordered mental competency evaluation. This has temporarily paused her first degree murder case. A new court date has not yet been scheduled. Her attorney requested the evaluation. This process typically takes around 60 days. The evaluation will determine if she is mentally fit to stand trial, according to a police affidavit. Mock, who has a history of mental health issues, including a diagnosis of schizoaffective disorder, told police she stabbed her mother in self defense, claiming her mother was the devil. Mock's stepfather reported that Mock had experienced delusions in the past, including saying they are all robots or they are not real people. Mock remains in custody at the Sedgwick county jail on a $1 million bond. Again, a new trial date has not been scheduled. Scheduled. How did we get here? Listen, there was a woman who came and approached our vehicle with blood. Like her hands were filled, her body was filled with blood, asking to call 9117-40-00am Alyssa Castro and her boyfriend are in their car in Wichita when a neighbor waves them down. As the woman approaches, they see what appears to be blood, a lot of blood on the woman's hands. The woman asked to borrow a phone to call 91 1, then takes off with the phone back into a house. Asked her if she was okay and she was pretty sh and she seemed scared and she just ran off. That from our friends at KAKE, straight out to Melissa McCarty joining us, investigative reporter, host of the Killer Jeans podcast and author of a brand new book, the Making of a Crime Reporter. Melissa, thank you for being with us. Now, who is the woman sitting in a car that observes Angelyn, the morning TV anchor, running out of the home covered in blood? Who is she? She was a neighbor in the car with her boyfriend and she watched everything unfold and she said she was traumatized by it. Imagine her just sitting there pulling into the neighborhood and she sees this woman frantically running towards them, begging for help. So obviously they stop and she's asking for a cell phone. The boyfriend hands over her cell phone and she takes it, runs inside the house and doesn't return. The informant, the neighbor, refers to Angeline Mock as this woman, specifically this woman. A lot of people are going to get face to face with a turkey this Thursday because it is Thanksgiving and because so many people are going to be basting their turkey. We do like to talk about Greece and where it should go. A lot of people don't know that all that grease, everybody on the block is cooking a turkey and that grease can be very problematic. That is from our friends at Fox 2 News, and that is Angelyn Mock who ran from the home covered in blood. Curious to Dan Murphy. Joining us, former NYPD detective sergeant on the Joint Terrorism Task Force and former chief security officer, co host of a hit podcast, Gold Shields. Dan Murphy. You know this woman, the TV anchor is drenched in blood. When police finally get to the scene, they find something even worse. Her 80 year old mother, apparently bedridden, is stabbed dead in her own bed. That's the mom on the left. The mom is Anita Avers. I think she actually turned 81 just before her stabbing death. So where do you even start with a scene like that, Dan? So immediately upon response, you're going to want to give any medical aid you can at this point. If the person is not clearly deceased and even if they are, medical personnel have to come and attend to them, which is going to disturb the scene a bit. But it has to be done. Then you're going to want to preserve all the evidence you can. And I've been in bloodbaths and you have to walk gingerly around them and wear those little booties. But it needs to be done because later on the evidence is all going to speak through experts to a jury. So right now you're preserving evidence. You know, a piece of evidence that is commonly fumbled through nobody's fault and that's footprints. When you have a bloodbath like the one that happened at the home of this Fox News anchor, every blood marking matters. It could be spray back, for instance. This is a stabbing death. The mother, an 81 year old woman, is stabbed multiple times. Think Ted Bundy, right? And the clubbing, right, that's called throwback, where the victim is hit forcefully and then the perpetrator swings back to strike again. That blood is cast off, right? The cast off, if measured correctly, can determine maybe even the height of the defendant, maybe the position in which they were when the attack occurred. You can tell how many times, if you can't tell from the body, you can tell from the cast off how many times the person was stabbed. Because every time there's a swing back, it hits in a slightly different spot on the wall or the ceiling. And speaking of ceilings, significant explain why ceilings are important in a case like this, that they be processed just like all the other blood evidence. Because blood evidence is airborne once it becomes part of cast off and it will leave an impression upon the ceiling. In most buildings, especially a residential building like this, that evidence is going to be important because blood spatter pattern analysis will be done by crime scene Personnel who understand serology and who understand the science of blood and how it moves and how it forms and what formations look like when it's cast off of a knife. So that preservation of evidence is vital. And you would want to take pieces of that ceiling with you as evidence. What do you mean take pieces of the ceiling with you as evidence? I've seen ceiling pieces cut out by crime scene units, pieces of flooring cut out depending upon the nature of the crime. Now this we have, it became a homicide. You take that evidence seriously and take pictures of it. But also you may want to take the actual physical piece itself. If it's a simple piece of wallboard that you can cut out, you may want to take it. It's something that may be challenged by defense. You may want to have evidentiary piece of evidence with you in case it's challenged. But those, those pieces of evidence are going to tell a story. And in thorough investigations, I've seen pieces of buildings brought out and taken into custody. You know, we got started on this discussion talking about floor evidence and how often evidence is lost or ruined really through no one's fault when they come onto the scene. You know, everybody's shoes have to be, have to be taken and there has to be a print made of them to compare to bloody shoe prints if there are any on the floor. The only people that should go into that room are the ones who are burdened with trying to save a life. That's it. And then if they can't save the 81 year old mom's life, they have to very gingerly back out and get the hay out of there. So, so the work can begin. But when you're trying to save somebody's life, that's your paramount concern. You're not worried about bloody footprints. Okay, let's go back to what happened. This is it. And this is a whole nother can of worms. Dan Murphy. This happened around 7am 7am which statistically is very rare for a bloodbath, a deadly bloodbath to go down before breakfast. Okay, listen. 911 is called and relays a message to first responders. A woman says there has been a stabbing in her home. This morning. 0751 hours. Officers responded to a stabbing call in the 1500 block of East Crowley. When officers arrived on scene, they were met in the street with a 48 year old white female who had suffered from some cutting cuts to her hand. Joining me is veteran trial lawyer Jim Elliott, attorney with Butler Snow, legal counsel for multiple municipalities and governmental entities@butlersnow.com Jim, thank you for being with us. Jim Elliott, you've tried a lot of cases in court. Blood evidence is very tricky, especially if you don't know what you're doing. But one thing I would be looking at is the degree to which the blood had coagulated at the time when EMTs and first responders get there. And it's really difficult. Jim, you've been on a lot of scenes. They're trying to save the 81 year old mom's life. They're not thinking has the blood coagulated, they're trying to resuscitate her and get her airlifted to the hospital where I would come in as the prosecutor. It's critical that we know what whether the blood had dried, not just coagulated. Coagulated means it's kind of like jello. It's not thin, liquefied like water anymore. It's more of a Jello consistency that's coagulated. And the harder it gets, the closer it gets to being dried. In your experience, Jim Elliot, why is it so, so important that we know whether the blood was still liquid as in water, semicoagulated, as in jello, or flat out dried? Well, certainly that goes to what time the crime actually occurred or the stabbing occurred. And probably in that case you're only going to have the eyewitness testimony of the first responders who can indicate what they saw. Perhaps without a great deal of expertise in that regard. Oh yeah, they'll be torn to shreds on cross exam. Gotta have more than that. We have to have the cops in there immediately processing the scene. But the reality is, Jim Elliott, it takes a beat for the entire CSI to arrive and you could lose that critical evidence. Why is it critical? I need to know when this 81 year old mother was stabbed multiple times in her bed. You know another thing, Elliot, I noticed this when prosecuting in inner city Atlanta when the victim is very young, like an infant or very old for some reason those cases are very often pled down to like manslaughter of some degree. You got voluntary, you got involuntary. I don't know why, but have you noticed that phenomenon used to burn me up like somehow because the victim is really young and hadn't lived yet as an infant or really old, they don't matter anymore. Did you notice that? I'd love to see a statistic on that. Well, that certainly can be the case. And I guess that's kind of driven by the value of the life at the time of the passing you know, you indicated that's not been in all the Elliot coverage of the event and her pictures seem to be blowing off. Commercial break the Value of the life. You know what, you sound a lot like a civil lawyer right now where you try to get a money verdict from a jury and you ask the jury to put a dollar value on somebody's life. So what if they're old, Jim Elliot, they're just not worth as much. Go ahead, put it out there. It's the usual, it's the usual measure of damages, Nancy, whether it's morally right or fits everyone's code of ethics or not. That's the way our system works with regard to that measurement. That's what I'm talking about. Well, maybe for you, Jim Elliot, and you've won a lot of cases with civil juries and now I see why, because you actually said that like it's true. Just because it is done, Elliot, does not mean it should be done. That doesn't mean it's okay just because it happens. A dollar value on a life, that premise right there is considered concerning to me. But that said, Jim Elliott, I want you to tell me the truth. Isn't it true that when the victim is an infant and you don't have a whole lot of cute Christmas pictures and you know, baptizing pictures and family pictures at Disney, all that and a really old victim, I am telling you, it's anecdotal, not a statistic that those plea deals are cheaper than, than they are for just to say a young vibrant man or woman. Have you noticed that? Be honest. Yeah, I think it can be. I think with regard to the younger people, you can't really paint a picture of their life for the jury. That's what prosecutors would probably worry about with regard to an older person. Again, there's this, there's going to be this attitude that they live their life and sadly is it. That may be the attitude, Elliot, but don't bring it to crime stories. Save it for your civil juries. Okay, I'm going to let Elliot sit there and think about what he just said and move this case forward. Listen. Arriving at the home at 7:52am Wichita Police find a woman outside the home with cuts on her hands and blood on her clothing. Inside they find 81 year old Anita Evers unresponsive in her bed with multiple stab wounds. Both women are taken to the hospital. Officers went inside. The Residence found an 81 year old elderly female suffering from multiple stabs stab wounds. Both were transported to local hospitals Back out to Melissa McCarty joining us, investigative reporter, host of the Killer Janes podcast, which is awesome. Melissa McCarty and author of the Making of a Crime Reporter. Melissa, what can you tell me about the victim's stabs? What have you learned? Anita Evers had multiple stab wounds to her as far as was it upper body, her face, the specific areas? Police haven't released that just yet, but she was attacked reportedly in her bed with multiple stab wounds. I want to talk about what Melissa McCarty just said. Karen Stark joining me, forensic psychologist, renowned TV radio trauma expert, consultant@karenstart.com if you're looking for her, it's Karen with a C. Karen, I want to talk to you about something that shocked me to the core. And you know, Karen, you and I bonded together in very, very long hours in the dark at Court TV Studios, where you and I would sit there, I believe they were three or four hour shifts we had watching trials live and commenting on them whenever there would be a break. Even after all that, after all the cases I've tried, after all the cases you have worked on, I was so shocked with the Bryan Kohberger attacks in that. Well, many things. But the stabbing to the face of Kelly Goncalves and Maddie, I believe Kelly Goncalves was. She was stabbed multiple times, but in her face alone. There were over 20 stab wounds. Now, I'm just a trial lawyer. You're the shrink. But when a victim is stabbed repeatedly in the face, there has got to be a psychological motivation there. I don't know what it is, but I bet you do. That's rage, Nancy, and that's very symbolic because he's trying to wipe out her face. He's angry even though he had no contact with her. This is a guy who just couldn't control himself when it came to her. He was obsessed. And so you are wiping out the person. In some instances, a killer will put a cover over somebody's face, a pillow, something to hide them they just don't want to see. And they want to obliterate that person. She was beautiful. And that really disturbed him. Like, let me get rid of who she is and all her beauty because she doesn't want me. You know, another thing, Karen Stark, you know, my mom, who's going to be 94 in December, lives with us. The act of stabbing a little old lady in her bed, either bedridden or asleep, that's a whole other level of evil right there. Now, I know no one's life is more valuable than another person's life. I don't care if we're talking about a movie star, TV star like Matthew Perry, or we're talking about this 81 year old MA, but to attack a completely defenseless person, that's a whole nother can of worms psychologically. What is that? It's like shooting, Killing a mockingbird. That's true. But we don't really know, Nancy, what was going on inside of that person's head. Karen Stark. Excuse me one moment. Did I just hear you say it matters what's going on inside that person's head? The stabber, the killer. I don't care what's going on in their head unless they're legally insane. Doesn't matter. You know how many years it took me to figure that out? It was either 5 or 7 because I marked it. I would sit in court looking over at the defendant, always a violent felon, because everything else would get pled out thinking, why? Why would they do this? Finally, I think it was year five. I'm like, why am I asking why? It doesn't matter what's going on inside his head. I have a case to prove and I'm going to prove it. So are you, as an 81 year old bedridden woman, in her bed, stabbed multiple times, potentially in the face, and you want me to figure out what's going on in the killer's mind? Did you say that? No, I said we don't know what's going on. But what I was trying to say, Nancy, is that whoever this person was, they had tremendous, just like Kohlberger, rage. Rage to do so many stab wounds, rage to boost somebody's face. If that actually happened, something was going on where they really did not want to make that person be recognizable. They were obsessed in this killing. Decluttering is everything. It clears your space, your mind, and now it can give you shopping power. With Trashy. That's trashy with an ie, not a Y. Trashy is an easy way to get instant value for donating all that clutter you've got lying around. Just buy a trashy bag, fill it with anything you no longer need. Any brand, any condition. We take everything, then ship it free and earn points instantly guaranteed. Keep earning points when you shop exclusive Trashee deals and redeem them for gift cards to brands you love or even donate them to charity. 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See specially marked Valpak envelopes for details. Want to know how to become the richest person in the world? Start with the latest episode of our podcast, Good Bad Billionaire. We're telling the story of how Elon Musk amassed half a trillion trillion. From his troubled childhood in South Africa to buying Twitter and launching rockets into space. With all the boardroom dramas along the way, find out how he did it on Good Bad billionaire. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. The world is buzzing with AI tools, but instead of making things easier, they've made things overwhelming. There's a better way. Meet Superhuman, the AI productivity suite that gives you superpowers so you can outsmart the word chaos with Grammarly mail and coda. Working together, you get proactive help across your workflow. No matter how you work, experience AI that meets you right where you are. Learn more@superhuman.com podcast that's superhuman.com podcast crime stories with Nancy Grace College professors now have a high tech tool to catch students who plagiarize. A software called Turnitin analyzes a student's paper for places it could have been copied from other sources. It highlights the copied segments and even gives the professor a percentage of the paper that was not the results of the students work in the first place. From our friends at Fox 2 with over a decade of experience as a broadcast journalist, Angie Mock was known for her hard hitting reports on crime. Ironically, she now finds herself at the center of a murder case. Joining us, Melissa McCarty, reporter and host of the Killer Jeans. Melissa Both women were transported to the hospital. Describe their two injuries because they are diametrically opposed. Right. Anita Evers had multiple stab wounds and when she was transported she ended up dying at the hospital, was pronounced dead about 30 minutes later. Now, Angie Mock had some cuts on her hands and she was treated as well. And release, if I am not mistaken, she was treated and released. That's right. Very same day. Very same day. Can I see Melissa McCarty please? Melissa McCarty, are you telling me that the 81 year old mother was stabbed multiple times in the torso and possibly the face And Diesel and the glamorous TV anchor had some cuts on her hands, is that right? That's right, that's right. She was also covered in blood. Covered in blood. Now I find it very curious to Dave Mack joining us, crime stories investigative reporter, very curious indeed. How did the morning TV news anchor survive the attack with a few cuts on her hands? And her mother, bedridden, is the target of a maniacal killer and is stabbed dead. How does that happen? You know Nancy, that's the question that they're going to have to answer very quickly because she was able to get out of the house and wave down help. Remember Angie Mock actually went out into the street, is waving down people for help and get the cell phone from somebody she doesn't even know just gets and runs back into the house. So she's still got plenty of energy. She's still able to get up and go and ask for help and yet her mother is there in the bed having been massacred. So don't know what exactly transpired except she had plenty of energy to go out and get help for herself. Dave Mac, do you know what you just did to me when you're talking about her mother? I felt like I swallowed a lump of coal, like something stuck in my throat. I just want to jump up and run to get to my mom and check on her. Okay, well you just brought up something really interesting that I hadn't thought of. Not just that she survived the maniacal killer with a few cuts on her hands, but somehow was drenched in blood. Isn't that right, Melissa? That's a yes. No, she's drenched in blood all over the front of her, Right? Correct. Dave Mac, back to you. So she's drenched in blood from what the cuts on her hands. But you brought up that she's still in excellent condition. No blow to the head, no gash, no wound to her, the back of her head. She is alert, she's not screaming. Get the guy, get the guy. Somebody broke in her house. There's. Which reminds Me. Was there any sign of forced entry, Dave Mack, at all? None. None whatsoever that we've been told about at this point, Nancy, and like you said, she's got plenty of time and energy to go around and go outside the house and seek help so she's able to have her thoughts. She's not, she's not freaking out in that she cannot put a, you know, a thought together here. She's able to go outside and get help and you know, she didn't seem to be, other than the blood on her hands, doesn't seem to be impacted whatsoever. You know, that's also curious. You said she's not freaked out, but she did run out of the house to borrow a stranger. It was a neighbor, but they didn't really know each other's phone. Grabbed the neighbor's phone and then ran back into the home with it. I wonder why she didn't use a phone in the home or her own cell phone. I mean, I'm just trying to think this through, Dave. If I found someone injured in our home, I would not run out in the street to try to borrow somebody's phone that may or may not be out there. I would use the home phone if they have one, or my cell phone. That's odd, isn't it? Don't you find that odd? I found it odd that she ran outside the house because her mother is there in the bed. And as mentioned, she's got multiple stab wounds, but she doesn't have the wherewithal to get a phone in the house. I mean, come on, you probably got in that home, you probably still got a wall, a phone on the wall, not to mention several cell phones from the adults that are there in the home. But instead of any of that, she goes outside. And all I'm thinking if we're maybe she was outside afraid that the killer inside. I, I don't know, Nancy, it makes no sense. You wouldn't leave your mother in bed outside afraid of the killer still in the house. I like that, Dave. You've got a future of fiction. Listen. The 81 year old Anita Avers found unresponsive in her bed with multiple stab wounds, transported to the hospital, as is her daughter, Angie Mock, the woman who approached police in the street when they arrived. Mock, a former television news anchor reporter, is treated and released from the hospital. Happy Facebook Friday to everyone and welcome. Angie Mock. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here and I look forward to, forward to, you know, connecting with you guys out there in St. Louis from Fox 2, the former news anchor was living with her 80 year old mother in their Wichita home on Halloween night. The spotlight shifted dramatically onto mock as events took a dark turn. A dark turn again? That's certainly putting perfume on the pig. A dark turn. It sounds like a mystery novel. This is no mystery novel. And it's not a dark turn. It's murder. And it's the murder of a defense of senseless 81 year old woman apparently bed ridden. You know, I just heard something to Melissa McCarty. Is it true that the glam morning TV anchor was living with her mother? What? In her mother's home. Whose home was that? That's what it seems. So police have not gone on the record to confirm it, but it seems as if though they were living together. Guys, what happened in that bedroom? How did Angeline Mock end up unscathed? She was treated. What? Jim Elliott. They sprayed a little bacteria on her, went goodbye. Goodbye. What? And the mother's dead. Stab multiple times. You don't, you don't have a problem with that because I do. Well, so I think, you know, the difference is an 80 or 81 year old woman versus someone 20 or 30 years younger. The younger person could arguably be more able to defend herself than was her mother. Okay, so you're saying she could defend herself. Okay, I see where you're going with that. Dr. Priya Banerjee is with us. Dr. Priya? Board certified forensic pathologist and anatomic pathologist with Anchor Forensic Pathology Consultants. Insulting. Let's just say she's seen a lot of dead bodies. Dr. Priya, what is the difference between a defensive stab wound and a stab wound? You would get to your hands when you are the attacker. For instance, your hand sliding down the knife. Unless you're like Brian Kohberger who had a K bar knife which has a hilt. What is a hilt? It looks like a cross. There is a section that turns the blade, it bisects it. And if you're the stabber, your hand would stop at the hilt. Okay, so if there is a knife that does not have a hilt, how can you tell the difference between a wound sustained to the hand if you are the stabber, versus a defensive wound? Well, I think that can be challenging. You need to look at where it is. If you're putting your hands up this way on the back, that is obviously defensive, you're not going to in any way have the knife use the back of your hand to stab someone. Now if it's on the palms and it's really deep, maybe you did have a grabbing motion where the knife slipped. Remember, repeated stabs make the knife bloody, which makes it slippery. Earlier you heard a veteran trial lawyer, Jim Elliott describe why the morning TV news star could have escaped a deranged killer unscathed. Because she's 20 to 30 years younger than her 81 year old mother. Typically the state does not have to prove motive. But I'd be very curious to find out who would want to kill an 81 year old little old lady asleep in bed. The degree of physical acumen, the lack of aging symptoms, being very, very physically active. Yes, I could see that as an excuse. Let's take a look at Angelyn Mock, Ferrell's biggest fan, Angie Mock. Hey, you're a big fan, right? Oh, huge. Lambert Airport better get ready for me. You're gonna be there, right? Yeah. I mean, Angie Mock is a former TV anchor who spent several years waking up the St. Louis area anchoring the morning news on Fox 2. She spent years as a reporter and anchor working for Fox 25, Oklahoma City, KLKN, Nebraska, now NBC, Montana and others. I love highlighting so many cool and interesting things that come to the St. Louis area. How do we go about training like the professional last curveball. We'll straighten it out. Let's run our friends at Fox 2 News and we showed you that to explain that Jim Elliott is absolutely correct. She's in great physical shape. So is that how she escapes the deranged killer and her mother does not? To Melissa McCarty joining us from Killer Jane's Was there a forced entry? Did first responders see anyone leaving the home or did the neighbor who lent her cell phone to Mott, did she see anyone leaving the home or a car speeding away, anything like that? There was no forced entry. And according to police, there were two people, Angie standing outside the home and her mom unresponsive inside the home. That's it. Did she make a statement at all? To Dave Mack joining us, investigative report, crime stories. What if anything did Angie Mock have to say? Well, she hasn't made anything public that we're aware of and only getting secondhand information about what may or may not have been said to the 911 dispatcher. Well, you know what, I'm being very clear, Dave. What did she say? She said that she did it in self defense, that she was trying to save her own life, intimating that it was a fight with her mother and she had to use the knife to protect herself. Angelyn Mock, the morning TV news anchor actually says she stabbed her mother in Self defense. I believe your eloquent words were, she did it in self defense. What, it was a kill or be kill situation? Is that what you're saying, Dave Mack? That is exactly what I am saying. That she claims. Oh my stars. What a difference a night can make. Check out Angie Mock in that photo. Ouch. There's a side by side. I don't want to be part of that. Okay, hold on, Jim Elliot, you're the veteran trial lawyer. I guess this is one of the reasons you tell your clients, shut your pie hole. Is anybody going to believe that Angeline Mock was defending herself against her bedridden mother in a kill or be killed situation? I mean, how do you even look at a judge? Well, she's gonna have to explain that. And I mean, I guess they'll come up with some concept of, who knows, physical or mental abuse over her lifetime or something of that sort that she may attribute it to. Okay, you know what, Jim Elliot, now again, you're just spinning it out. Put them up, please. Jim Elliot, you have children. I assume you read them the story of Rumpelstiltskin. Yes, of course, yes. Okay, so you know where I'm going with this. Rumpelstiltskin took hay and he just spun it out into gold. And that's what you're doing right now, now do you, Jim Elliot? And again, you're a veteran trial lawyer. Your record, record shows you've won a lot of cases. You represent multiple state and local municipalities. You're actually somehow coming up with the theory that this anchor. Can I see her please? That the TV anchor who can ad lib, who can read script, who can do all sorts of on air antics, that she endured a lifetime of either physical, mental or emotional abuse. Did you just throw that out as a possibility, Jim Elliott? It is a possibility, certainly. And we don't know exactly. I mean, all she said was to save myself. We don't know what that means. We don't know what that means physically, whether there were other issues at play in their relationship or in her life or in our mother's life. And I think that has to be fully explored before we can understand. But she's going to have to explain that. My stars. I need a shrink. The holidays are about giving. Even your closet deserves to feel lighter. Here's the thing. Cleaning out your closet is one thing. Actually getting those bags out the door and to a drop off spot, that's where it falls apart. Well, not this season. Trashy. Unlimited members for a limited time get $10 off the courier delivery option in the Uber app to have their take back bags picked up right from home. Here's how it works. Fill your take back bag with clothes you're done with. Register your bag, claim your $10 off discount, then schedule a pickup from your door. A courier will take your bag straight to UPS for you. No loading up the car, no waiting in line. No I'll do it after the holidays. Wishful thinking. Just schedule. Hand it off and you're done. It's closet Clean out without the errand. It's the gift of space without the guilt. Skip the trip Clean out without going out. Limited time only terms apply. Learn more at Trashy IO your ticket to Big Savings is that big blue envelope in your mailbox. Valpak it's brimming with deals from big name brands and your favorite local spots, dining services, stuff you're already buying. All for less. And you could score $100 or other instant prizes just for opening it. Or save even faster with mobile coupons you can use right now@valpak.com Valpak there's definitely something in it for you. Hello, Greg Jenner here, host of youf're Dead to Me. In my new family friendly podcast series Dead Funny History, historical figures come back to life for just about long enough to argue with me, tell us their life stories, and sometimes get on my nerves. There's 15 lovely episodes to unwrap, including the life of Ramses, the Great Josephine Baker and the history of football. Plus much, much more. So this Christmas, give your ears a treat with Dead Funny History. You can find it in the youe're Dead to me feed on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. The world is buzzing with AI tools, but instead of making things easier, they've made things overwhelming. There's a better way. Meet Superhuman, the AI productivity suite that gives you superpowers so you can outsmart the word chaos with Grammarly, mail and coda. Working together, you get proactive help across your workflow, no matter how you work, experience AI that meets you right where you are. Learn more@superhuman.com podcast that's superhuman.com podcast crime stories with Nancy Grace I need a Shrink. Karen Stark I'll forego the drink and I'll stick with the shrink. You know I don't want to hear about any of your specific clients, but how many times do your clients blame Mommy? You know, I've started a fund for my daughter and son for a shrink someday because I'm sure they're going to blame everything on Me? Yes. Mommy told me I was fill in the blank. My mommy made me fill in that blank. It's all mommy's fault. Did you hear, Elliot? The woman is bedridden. She's 81 years old. I don't care what she told you when you were 5 years old to stand up straight and eat your vegetables. What? Did you hear that? Because that's where this is going. It doesn't make any sense. It really, if you think about it, yes, mothers, fathers, they really affect their children growing up. And that's a fact. Whatever is going on. But we're talking now about an adult and a mother who is 80, 81. There is no reason for that to still be held over. And something that's in her psyche at this point, she's gone on with her life and she should be doing really well and not be blaming anybody because she's independent. Karen, you keep talking about it in her mind. We don't even know if there is anything that the now dead mom did. The 81 year old. For all I know, she was an incredible mom. We're just. You are actually buying into Jim Elliott's theory that maybe, maybe this woman was emotionally abused by her mom for years and years and years, so she just had to stab her dead. Well, that's the whole point. It doesn't matter what their relationship was like. It really doesn't, Nancy, because at this point stage in her life, she's a functioning, we assume, adult and she should not be carrying any kind of feelings about her mother that's interfering or would make her. Who would do that? Stab their own mother? That hardly ever happens. Police responded to a reported stabbing at Mock's residence. Angelyn was found outside claiming she acted in self defense after stabbing her mother. Angel. Inside officers discovered her mother in bed suffering from multiple stab wounds. Okay. This is a tactic that will likely be used by the state if this case goes forward. All of the clips that we are showing you, every word Angie Mock has uttered on air will be combed through and used if possible in court to show that she was in her right mind. I mean, well, this is why there's got to be a mental defect defense because she blurted it out at the get go. Listen, I've already had to stab the mother to save herself about five to six knives and that whoever is currently with her mom, she's also injured as well. No other weapons in the home. This was good, wasn't it? Yeah. Oh, it was wonderful. Family was in town. They're leaving today. I don't know where my tissues are. That's all right. Families in town. They're leaving today. That was from our friends at K A K E and Fox 2. I want to hear that one more time. What she said on the scene or to the 911 dispatch. And then her crying about her family leaving after the holiday. Let's watch that one more time. About five to six knives and that Poly Brady's currently with her mom. She's also injured as well. And other weapons in the home. Yeah. Oh, it was wonderful. Family was in town. They're leaving today. I don't know where my tissues are. That's all right. Yeah. They don't have those fancy soft ply tissues behind bars. Ms. Mock. That's from K A K E and Fox 2. Okay. Dan Murphy, former NYPD detective sergeant and so much more. Author of Workplace Safety co host, Gold Shields Podcast. It goes on and on and on. Thoughts? There's so many thoughts about this. When she came out of the house and said what she said, allegedly she's putting herself as the person responsible for it. The reasons for it can get figured out later. When you look at this situation, she's living with her mother for whatever reason, maybe as a caretaker, maybe a financial need, probably rent free. I'll just throw that in. Go ahead. Sorry. Oh, that's for our friends at Fox 2, everybody. I'm sorry, Dan. Go ahead. It looks as though life has dealt her a very bad hand, so to speak. Set of cards. She does not look like the same person. Something is on a downslide. Maybe she blames the mother for things in her life. Sees the mother as holding her back in many reasons. I would love to know the story. The true dynamic in the relationship, why she's living there, what caused this. Has there been any other domestic cause there? What would lead her to this? Maybe it's narcissistic. Narcissism. Maybe she sees me. I'm sorry, but are you, are you a mental health professional? Because I thought you're a former NYPD detective sergeant. I am. Which is equivalent to a master's in psychology in many ways. Dan. Okay, you and I both know that motive is not required. I don't care. I mean, my, my non prosecutor side does care, but I'm talking about the facts that we're going to put in front of a jury. I am asking you. You're the former nypd and I keep saying that because you have more cases than practically any other jurisdiction in the country that you have handled personally. Analyze the facts. We'll deal with her mental defect defense that she's, you know, really paint herself in a corner with because she came out with self defense. So she stuck with it. That's not going away. She admitted she did it in self defense. Of course I don't believe that. And I want to hear what you think about the facts. Not your amateur opinion as mine would be too. I'm not a shrink. About why she did it. Why does somebody stab a bedridden 81 year old woman? Don't care the bare facts. Then cops get to the scene. She lives in the home with the mother and she is covered in blood, which is indicative of somebody who has either embraced a dead body covered in blood or somebody who themselves was responsible for it. And the blood comes out arterial spurts and things like that. Second, she's got defensive wounds potentially or potentially from a hand sliding down a knife that's being in a frenzied attack being used to attack somebody. She makes a statement indicating she did it. There's no evidence of entry by anyone else into the residence. She's the only person responsible. She's taking responsibility. The mother is bedridden and couldn't possibly have posed a threat with a knife to her daughter. Fairfax. No other suspect. Here's a look at her top stories. Several victims survive a hail of bullets in two separate shootings. But those shootings were at the exact same location. A glamorous TV news anchor, Mock stands charged with first degree murder for the fatal stabbing of her 81 year old mother, Anita Avers. Mock is being held in the Sedgwick county jail on a $1 million bail from Fox 2 at this hour. As of tonight when we go to air, this case is still being built by LE law enforcement. If you know or think you know anything about the death of this 81 year old mom, please dial Wichita PD. 316-268-4111. Repeat, 316-268-4111. And remember, evil comes in many forms. Do you think the devil always shows up? And a tux? No. Don't be fooled by a killer's appearance. Even if she's a glamorous morning TV anchor. Doesn't matter. Try to keep your mind on the victim. Maybe like your own mother. 81, bedridden, stabbed multiple times. Keep that thought in your head. We remember an American hero. Detective Corporal Christopher Mock, St. Lucie County Sheriff's killed in the line of duty after 21 years on the force. Leaving behind a wife turned widow, Jennifer and two grieving children. American hero Detective Corporal Christopher Mock, Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friends. Decluttering is everything. It clears your space, your mind, and it can give you shopping power. With Trashy. Just buy a trashy bag, fill it with anything you no longer need, then ship it free and earn rewards. Points instantly. Earn points even faster when you shop exclusive trashy deals and redeem them for gift cards to brands you love, or even donate them to charity. It's never been easier to turn clutter into shopping power. 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