Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: “Jussie Smollett: Withdraws from Reality Show”

Date: November 9, 2025
Host: Nancy Grace
Notable Guests: Ellen Killoran (crimeonline.com), Daryl Cohen (criminal attorney/ex-prosecutor), Karen Smith (forensics expert), Dr. Bethany Marshall (psychoanalyst)

Overview

This episode centers on the controversial figure Jussie Smollett—his infamous 2019 hate crime hoax, ensuing legal fallout, and recent appearance and abrupt exit from the reality show Special Forces: World’s Toughest Test. Nancy Grace and her expert panel revisit key details of the alleged attack, the investigation, and discuss implications of his continued media presence. With a trademark mix of skepticism and directness, Nancy and her guests question Smollett’s motivations, the nature of his withdrawal from the show, public backlash, and the broader impacts of high-profile hoaxes.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Smollett’s Reality Show Appearance & Exit

• Smollett joined, then medically withdrew from Special Forces: World’s Toughest Test in Morocco.
• He developed a severe cough attributed by the show’s medic to “inflammation throughout his chest” and a probable allergy, prompting medical withdrawal.
  • [43:40] Nancy Grace: “When his co stars realized that Smollett had developed a nasty cough, his co stars encouraged him to go to the medic…Dr. Andy determined that Smollett had developed an allergy to something in the dust, medically withdrawing Smollett from the show.”

2. Recap of the 2019 Attack Allegation

• The Claim: Smollett reported being attacked in Chicago at 2am by two people hurling racist and homophobic slurs, pouring bleach on him, and putting a noose around his neck.
• The Investigation:
  • The attackers were soon revealed to be the Osundairo brothers, Smollett's personal trainers and extras on Empire.
  • Evidence—including a personal check from Smollett for ~$3,500—suggested the event was orchestrated.
  • Smollett insisted on privacy, initially refusing to turn over his phone, and provided redacted phone records.
• Nancy’s Take:
  • “To claim a hate crime and wrap a rope around your neck as if you were threatened with lynching. Nothing could be more incendiary in our American consciousness. All brought to the forefront by Smollett’s hoax.” (15:40)

3. Doubts, Red Flags, & Contradictions

• Unlikely Scenario:
  • Panelists question aspects like venturing out for Subway at 2am in subzero Chicago.
  • [09:55] Nancy Grace: "I start right there. That's where I start the story. And I think that's crazy. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I just think that's cray cray."
• Phone Controversy:
  • Smollett’s reluctance to relinquish his phone is highlighted as problematic.
  • [20:00] Nancy Grace: “But when you don’t hand your phone over to cops, that is a big red flag…If you have had bleach poured on you...you’re handing your phone over because you want those people caught, right?”
• Timeline Fuzziness:
  • Smollett first called his manager—not the police—after the attack, with police contacted 40 minutes later.
  • Surveillance camera footage showed a 60-second gap omitting the alleged attack.
  • Redacted phone records provided by Smollett were deemed “basically of no use” by police.
  • [46:04] Daryl Cohen: “If you have a victim of a crime...this is absurd. He is looking for publicity...He is scripted and he's gotten himself into a problem. He's a living soap opera."

4. Examination of Motives & Psychological Angles

• Malingering:
  • Dr. Bethany Marshall explains “malingering” — exaggerating or faking symptoms for external motives, highlighting the attention, sympathy, or career benefits as possible rewards.
  • [31:18] Dr. Bethany Marshall: "When somebody malingers, they usually obstruct investigation process...The sicker I am, the more I’m going to get some kind of reward or attention..."
• Panel's Analysis:
  • Continued skepticism about Smollett's actions, citing inconsistencies, highly performative statements, and “scripted” demeanor in interviews.

5. Parallels and Cultural Impact

• Nancy Grace draws parallels to notorious hoaxers and notes the damage such cases do to public trust and police resources.
  • [29:43] Nancy Grace: "Remember the Runaway Bride when she lied about getting kidnapped? … other people have done jail time, hard jail time, for bringing police in on a hoax…"

6. Public & Social Media Reaction

• Strong backlash against Smollett’s continued media presence and reality show casting.
  • Nancy reads from social media:
    • "Why is Jesse Smollett not in jail?”
    • “I thought he was in jail. Well, you're right, that's where he should be.”
  • [43:40] Nancy Grace: “Everybody joining in on X is right. Someone giving Jussie Smollett a platform after all the... let me just say, crap he pulled is a little scary.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Nancy Grace on Smollett’s Claim:
  • "This felon? Oh, my stars. Jussie Smollett. Remember him? The race hoaxer who claimed he was attacked because he is black and gay... It was all a lie." (02:16)
• Jussie Smollett Defending Himself:
  • “Subway is open 24 hours. Like, people kill me when they say things like that because it's like subway is open 24 hours for a reason...” (05:30)
  • “I just want young people, young members of the LGBTQ community, young black children to know how strong they are, to know the power they hold in their little pinky.” (25:54)
• Daryl Cohen on Police Cooperation:
  • “Why would you not call the police?...So, yeah, I've got a real problem with him not turning over his phone... This guy is Jesse, but he's, he thinks he's Jesse James.” (21:11)
• Panel’s Suspicion of Motive:
  • Dr. Bethany Marshall: “When people malinger symptoms...they do it for a reward. Is he trying to up his Twitter following? Is he negotiating a contract now and wants to prove...he is the center of a national news situation?” (48:20)
• Ellen Killoran on Phone Records:
  • “He did hand over phone records, but they were heavily redacted.” (39:04)
• Nancy Grace on Star Treatment:
  • “People that make false claims to police, much less to this extent, usually land behind bars if they're regular mortals like all of us. If you're a Hollywood star, maybe you get different treatment.” (36:25)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Smollett’s Reality Show Withdrawal Summary: 02:16, 25:15, 43:40
• Attack Recap & Initial Doubts: 05:30–11:18
• Phone & Investigation Issues: 17:22, 20:00, 39:04, 46:04
• Malingering, Motive & Psychological Angles: 31:18–34:45, 48:20
• Public & Social Media Reaction: 43:40
• Discussion of Threatening Letter: 27:03–29:43
• Panel’s Final Assessment of Police Interest in Re-Interviewing Smollett: 49:32–51:16

Tone & Style

The conversation maintains Nancy Grace’s signature blunt, sometimes sarcastic, and confrontational style—frequently pausing to editorialize, press for accountability, and demand logical answers. Panelists offer expertise but echo her incredulity over the case’s inconsistencies, with occasional dry humor.

Summary Takeaway

This episode is a deep dive into the still-contentious story of Jussie Smollett, examining why his case remains in public consciousness, the technical and ethical details of the failed hate crime narrative, and how these high-profile hoaxes reverberate through law enforcement, the legal system, and media. The podcast reflects both legal scrutiny and a cultural reckoning over truth, celebrity privilege, and consequences.