ALEX MURDAUGH DEATH PENALTY

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: KILLER LAWYER ALEX MURDAUGH DEATH PENALTY (May 19, 2026)

Host: Nancy Grace
Guests: Dr. Kendall Crowns, Mark Pepper (Defense Attorney), Gigi McKelvey (Journalist), Blanca Turabiate Simpson (Former Housekeeper), Dr. Bethany Marshall (Psychoanalyst), Chris McDonough (Homicide Detective), Dave Mack (Reporter)

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Episode Overview

In this explosive episode, Nancy Grace and her guest panel break down the latest bombshell in the Alex Murdaugh double-murder case: the reversal of his murder conviction and the looming possibility of a death penalty retrial. The discussion covers the legal twists behind the verdict's reversal due to jury tampering, Murdaugh's controversial civil lawsuit against a court clerk, the harrowing details of the murders, and the predicted strategies for the retrial—including whether Murdaugh could take the stand again. The panel grapples with the emotional and legal consequences for the victims, the Murdaugh family, and the South Carolina justice system.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Conviction Reversal and Jury Tampering

• The South Carolina Supreme Court reversed Murdaugh’s double murder conviction, citing jury tampering by court clerk Becky Hill ([00:58]).
• Grace and her panel question whether Hill’s actions truly influenced the verdict, with most agreeing the evidence against Murdaugh was overwhelming.
  • Nancy Grace: “How could they vote any other way? Alex Murdaugh is a liar and a thief and a generally despicable human being.” ([01:06])
• Defense attorney Mark Pepper explains the legal underpinning of Murdaugh's lawsuit against Becky Hill for reimbursement, citing civil rights under Section 1983 ([06:58]):
  • Mark Pepper: “When you have her [Becky Hill] purposely directly influencing the jury under the color of law... that opens her up to a claim of 1983... That allows for her to be held liable... I would argue that this is the opposite of frivolous.” ([06:58])

2. Murdaugh’s Lawsuit Against Court Clerk

• Murdaugh is suing Becky Hill for reimbursement for legal defense costs, arguing her conduct led to his conviction being overturned ([05:16]).
  • Nancy Grace: “He should be giving her a bonus… Why is he suing her? What is the legal theory?” ([05:31])
  • Mark Pepper: “The legal theory is very simple... we are granted the right to be free from outside influences at a trial before our peers.” ([06:58])
• Debate ensues about the validity and chances of success of this lawsuit, with Grace skeptical: “I think no jury is going to do this, they’re going to laugh him out of court.” ([09:08])

3. Autopsy Evidence and Death Penalty Considerations

• Dr. Kendall Crowns provides a sobering account of the murders: Maggie received five gunshot wounds, including one execution-style to the back of the head; Paul was shot twice with a shotgun, his brain blown out ([12:07], [44:14]).
  • Dr. Crowns: “She was essentially shot to her knees and then executed… The son... one [wound] going through the chest… the other entering the neck and blowing out the top of his head.” ([12:07], [44:14])
• The panel discusses aggravating circumstances—multiple victims, lying in wait, financial motive—that now make the death penalty more likely at retrial ([41:43]).

4. Retrial Strategy: Will Murdaugh Testify Again?

• Nancy and guests debate whether Murdaugh will take the stand after his disastrous first performance ([02:52], [03:32]).
  • Nancy Grace: “He will freeze over before Murdoch puts one toe on the stand after his disastrous first appearance… the quivering, the snotting, the pinching oneself to make oneself cry.” ([01:16])
  • Mark Pepper: “I think his ego will not allow him to not take the stand… I suspect we will see it, probably relatively soon.” ([02:52])
• Legal experts predict an even more aggressive defense, potentially shifting blame to a “some other dude” ([37:05]).
  • Mark Pepper: “Some other dude did it is always a valid defense… cousin Eddie’s out there, drug smuggling… but motive’s gonna be tough to convince.” ([37:05])

5. Victim Perspective and Emotional Toll

• Former housekeeper Blanca Turabiate Simpson shares the victim's family's outlook, expressing fear that Maggie and Paul will be forgotten amid legal wrangling ([15:43]).
  • Blanca: “What about Maggie and Paul? Here we go again, are they going to be lost in all the frenzy?” ([15:43])
• The panel, especially Dr. Bethany Marshall, reflects on Murdaugh’s lack of conscience and manipulative capacity:
  • Dr. Marshall: “He was practiced at extracting resources… He loves to get things that do not belong to him even if it’s just sympathy. He doesn’t have a conscience… we can truly and accurately use the word cold-blooded.” ([23:03], [24:55])

6. The Infamous Roadside Shooting Hoax

• Gigi McKelvey recounts Murdaugh’s post-murder attempt to arrange his own shooting for sympathy and to suggest a real killer was at large ([33:26], [34:00]).
  • Nancy Grace: “How did Murdaugh arrange to be shot on the side of a rural road to make it look like the real killer’s wandering around? That was my first thought. And guess what… that is exactly what happened.” ([34:54])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 01:16 | Nancy Grace | “Be careful what you ask, dear, for you will surely get it. That should be the phrase ringing in Alex Murdaugh’s ears right now.” | | 06:58 | Mark Pepper | “This is the opposite of frivolous… When you have her purposely directly influencing the jury under the color of law… that opens her up to a claim of 1983.” | | 12:07 | Dr. Kendall Crowns | “She was essentially shot to her knees and then executed.” | | 15:43 | Blanca Turabiate Simpson | “What about Maggie and Paul? Here we go again, are they going to be lost in all the frenzy?” | | 24:55 | Dr. Bethany Marshall | “He doesn’t have a conscience… they [his family] were like adornment… just to make him look normal while he was stealing from other people.” | | 34:54 | Nancy Grace | “There was this one time my son scraped his knee and it was worse than that… he actually bamboozled you” | | 38:35 | Nancy Grace | “Did you ever read to your children Rumpelstiltskin? The little imp that could take straw and spin it into gold—that’s what Harpootlian does… spin it out and blame somebody, some other dude.” | | 41:43 | Nancy Grace | “Mass murder—more than one body—qualifies as mass murder under the law; here we’ve got two lying in wait. He lured Maggie and Paul to Moselle… Teeming with death penalty aggravation.” |

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:58 — Jury Tampering Allegations and Conversation about Reversal
• 05:31 — Murdaugh’s Lawsuit Against Court Clerk Becky Hill
• 12:07 — Autopsy Details from Dr. Kendall Crowns
• 15:43 — Blanca Turabiate Simpson on Victim’s Family Perspective
• 23:03 — Dr. Bethany Marshall on Murdaugh’s Manipulation
• 33:26 — 911 Call from Roadside Shooting Hoax
• 34:00 — Gigi McKelvey’s Reaction to Shooting Plot
• 37:05 — Defense Strategy: Shifting Blame to "Some Other Dude"
• 41:43 — Aggravating Factors for Death Penalty, Likelihood of Seeking It
• 44:14 — Summary of Key Autopsy Evidence by Dr. Crowns

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Conclusion & The Road Ahead

Nancy Grace and her expert panel agree: the retrial is set to be a media and legal spectacle, with high likelihood the state seeks the death penalty this time around—supported by chilling forensic evidence and clear aggravating circumstances. Despite the technical grounds of conviction reversal, the panel doubts Murdaugh’s innocence and casts his post-murder actions as a continuing pattern of manipulation and exploitation.

The lingering question: Will justice be achieved for Maggie and Paul, or will the legal wrangling overshadow the brutal reality of their murders?

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If you have information related to this case, contact: [phone].

“We remember an American hero, Officer Jeff McCoy… Nancy Grace, signing off. Goodbye, friend.” ([45:21])

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Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

this is an iheart podcast guaranteed human

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[Nancy Grace]

stories with nancy grace two time killer lawyer alex murdaugh death penalty i'm nancy grace this is crime stories i want to thank you for being with us the supreme court ruled unanimously that alex

[Blanca Turabiate Simpson]

murdock's trial was not fair that the jury tampering affected the verdict with all

[Nancy Grace]

of that evidence how could they vote any other way alex murdaugh is a

[Unidentified Speaker]

liar and a thief and a generally

[Advertisement Voice]

despicable human being i really think the

[Nancy Grace]

only thing they had his voice being on the snapchat whoopsie be careful what you ask dear for you will surely get it that should be the phrase ringing in alex murdoch's ears about right now he he appealed his double murder conviction it was reversed he got what he asked for but now the south carolina attorney general has said you know what we think the death penalty may be in order in this case joining me an all star panel to make sense of what we are learning that and so much more as his fleet of defense attorneys say it will be a game day decision whether murdoch takes a stand are you kidding me there will be no way in he and speaking of he will freeze over before murdoch puts one toe on the stand after his disastrous first appearance let's watch him snotting on the stand please the quivering the snotting the pinching oneself to make oneself cry on the stand knows no end take a look at this mark pepper you're the veteran defense attorney joining us at oh

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

yep

[Nancy Grace]

wltv boy that had to hurt i saw that happen and mark pepper i can't unsee it i can't unsee it please please please put him back on the stand

[Mark Pepper]

what do you think i think you'll get your wish i think his ego will not allow him to not take the stand much less take the advice of his own attorneys as you may recall both mister harpootley and mister griffin advised against him taking the stand but that's not alec alec is convinced that he can convince a juror of twelve what we saw that day i hope to not see again but i suspect we will see it and probably relatively soon once the plaintiff rests once the prosecution rests i think they'll call him right quick

[Nancy Grace]

you know what two times around you're thinking murdoch is going to make an encore performance you know what i'll burn that bridge when i get there but i am i'm going to go over to the courthouse right now and i'm lying on the front row i'm not moving until murdoch gets on the stand because i need the front row last time i was sitting behind the one surviving family member buster murdaugh and his now wife and i had to keep moving around to see what was happening because i didn't want to watch one i didn't want to miss one fake tear pepper okay i blame him for his conviction but tonight is this true he's actually suing court clerk becky hill he's actually suing her whoa whoa whoa wait a minute straight out to gigi mckelvey joining us investigative reporter journalist host of pretty lies and alibis gigi wait hold on becky hill according to the south carolina supreme court handed him a reversal on a silver platter on top of the christmas tree why is he suing her you know when

[Gigi McKelvey]

i heard he was getting a new trial my first thought is he is going to sue becky hill now whether or not there's any money to be had that remains to be seen but yesterday at the press conference his defense attorney said part of the monetary part of the money they're seeking is to pay for his defense that he paid for first first trial because her actions led to that being overturned and getting

[Nancy Grace]

a new trial i think you're awesome you're great you're on the ground right there you know it like the back of your hand but the question was why is he suing her he's suing

[Gigi McKelvey]

her because he wants to be reimbursed for his defense attorney fees for that first trial they did mention they're seeking other monies but they did not specify what for but we do know the six hundred thousand specifically was mentioned for his defense fees he paid for trial

[Nancy Grace]

number one mark pepper joining us veteran criminal defense attorney founded the pepper law firm in south carolina okay wait a minute let me understand the legal theory she according to the jurors tainted their verdict i think they found him guilty because he is guilty and the evidence is overwhelming but two i think two jurors stated that she made inappropriate comments and it colored their verdict fine south carolina supreme court had to reverse so he should be giving her a bonus he should be sending her a fruit basket why is he suing her what is the legal theory that hartput lien is pulling straight out of his bony

[Mark Pepper]

rear end yeah he should be doing exactly what he's doing which is getting his six hundred thousand dollars back that he used in expert fees the legal

[Nancy Grace]

theory why can't anybody give me a legitimate legal theory in our country that's called a frivolous lawsuit you can be yosted yost that's the name of a case where there was a frivolous lawsuit and has come to be a moniker for frivolous lawsuits being filed you're going to get yoasted so can you give me a legal theory take two nancy

[Mark Pepper]

the legal theory is very simple in our country under section nineteen eighty three of our united states constitution we are granted the right to be free from outside influences at a trial on our on our trial before our peers when you have an independent actor who by the way is a state actor in this case she's the elected clerk of court when you have her purposely directly influencing the jury under the color of law given her position as third court that opens her up to a claim of of nineteen eighty three section nineteen eighty three of our united states constitution that allows for her to be held liable in a civil court of law and to pay damages in addition to damages that being six hundred thousand dollars plus whatever these attorneys can can elicit during the trial that case they would also be entitled under nineteen eighty eight us constitution section to attorney fees and costs for bringing this claim so i would argue that this is the opposite of frivolous this is a very legitimate claim against a bad actor who is acting under the color of state law under nineteen eighty three us constitution there

[Nancy Grace]

is alex murdaugh crying on body cam but keep watching because suddenly he flips it off and starts checking his cell phone please stay on that because i want to see him checking his cell phone i just wish i could see the text he was actually checking that night okay hold on while we're watching alex murdock oh there you go force himself to cry in front of the police let me understand this okay mark pepper please do not throw a lot of latin phrases nobody likes that yes lawyers are forced to learn what they mean but we don't speak latin okay what would be the damages so he gets tried for murder he gets convicted she makes offhand comments to the jurors that two of them say color their verdict he gets a reversal because of her and he's suing for how much money i think no jury is going to do this they're going to laugh him out of court she threw him a bone a life preserver yeah i

[Mark Pepper]

would argue quite the opposite but for her jury tampering in his mind he would have been acquitted and that's his position is that they tried a valid case they had at least one or two jurors that clearly said she influenced their verdict now keep in mind they voted guilty so if they're going to take the stand and say becky hill influenced my verdict well then they must have been leaning to not guilty so his position is you've now damaged me i was going to get either a not guilty verdict or at the very worst a hung trial a mistrial because it wouldn't be unanimous and so you now owe me the six hundred thousand dollars in in cost that i had to spend to try this first case because i'm no closer to an acquittal or proving my innocence than i was way back in twenty twenty three i

[Nancy Grace]

got it i got it i got it so i got it you're stating that in a nutshell alex murdock thinks he would have been acquitted yeah but for becky hill statements to the jury he thinks he was convicted because okay hold on just a moment doctor kendall crowns joining us renowned chief medical examiner tarrant county that's fort worth never a lack of business in the morgue has conducted literally thousands of autopsies he is the esteemed lecturer at the burnett school of medicine at tcu and he is a star of a hit podcast mayhem in the morgue doctor kendall crowns you just heard defense attorney mark pepper insist that the reason alex murdoch was convicted is because of the few offhand comments that the court clerk may becky hill could you refresh mark pepper's recollection as we say in court when a witness screws up on the stand you have to go your honor may i refresh the witness's recollection meanwhile you're boiling and seething inside because you have gone over the material with the witness and yet they still say something completely different than what they told you fifteen minutes before so you have to refresh their recollection with maybe a document or in this case a medical examiner's report becky hill had nothing to do with what happened to paul and maggie could you explain doctor kendall crowns why why the ag is now throwing the death penalty on the table what did the autopsy tell you about the death the murders of maggie and paul certainly so let's start

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

with maggie's autopsy she has five gunshot wounds to her body two are intermediate range meaning they have gunshot or gunpowder tattooing or stippling meaning the gunshot wound is between two to six inches to about two to three feet away from her body one of the gunshot wounds is actually into the back of her skull that goes through her brain it's almost like an execution type wound it appears that she gets shot in the abdomen shot in the thigh at close range she's probably fallen to her knees and then the individual then shoots her in the back of the head blowing out her brain killing her at that point she also has a gunshot wound to her left wrist so she could have been holding her arm up trying to block the incoming bullets for all we know so she was essentially shot to her knees and then echoed executed the son on the other hand he shot twice with a shotgun so whoever did the killing switched up weapons and then killed him with a shotgun one going through the chest blowing out his armpit and the other one entering into the neck and then blowing out the top of his head blowing out his brain as well so you have two people fatally shot one even appears to be basically executed at the scene so you know when you're beginning to talk death penalty you got to weigh in a number of factors which i know you fully understand but it does look like at least maggie was executed at

[Nancy Grace]

some point you know while you were talking doctor kendall crowns i was thinking about i mean this is buster murdaugh this is alex murdaugh's son maggie son i was thinking about my own son and i try not to place my daughter or son the positions of the victims but when you're describing bullets ripping through his body and i know from studying the crime scene that his brain matter was up on the top of a door it blew out of his head with such ferocity i know that part of his skull was found in a different location and i think of my sons and beautiful face and head i can hardly think straight and for mark pepper or hart pootland or alex murdoch or anybody to say that somehow becky hill caused the guilty verdict they're out of their minds doctor kendall crown hold joining me right now is a very special guest in addition to bethany marshall soon to join us chris mcdonough director cold case foundation homicide detective dave mack a friend of becky hill's right now oh and of course gigi mckelvey blanca turabiate simpson is joining us this is murdoch's former housekeeper she's the author of an incredible book within the house of murdoch i mean i stayed up at night and read that even though i knew i'd get up at five o' clock the next morning i stayed up till i finished it within the house of murdoch dot com blanca mister abbiate simpson thank you for being with us tonight what was your reaction when you heard murdoch's case had been reversed

[Blanca Turabiate Simpson]

first of all thank you for having me i i was shocked but it wasn't the feelings were more you know what about maggie and paul you know here we go again are they going to be lost in all the frenzy you know that that was my first feeling maggie and paul and i went to i did go to the cemetery right after i heard the news i just felt i don't know i don't know what it was i don't know whether it was her you know i could kind of hear her you know saying girl you need to come and see me but i just felt the urge that i needed to go by and even though they can't speak just to say here we go again that was and i'm still upset over it but i respect the court's decision

[Gigi McKelvey]

there's

[Nancy Grace]

nothing i can do about it we have to respect the court's decision i agree with you on that miss turabiate simpson i agree with you if we don't respect the court's decision we might as well be in a country that has a rule of man not a rule of law exactly whether we disagree or we agree with a court's decision you swallow it like it's a lump of coal and keep going if you disagree with it because that is the rule of law they have ruled and we will execute their wishes because we are officers of the court and we respect the court doesn't mean we have to agree with the court but what do you make of it miss simpson that it's all because of some comments some offhand comments and look i'm not saying becky hill didn't make the comments and they were wrong and they were inappropriate and the south carolina supreme court had no choice but to reverse i get it but i don't think that what she said is why he was convicted did you just hear doctor kendall crowns describing a tiny bit of the injuries to maggie and paul i agree

[Blanca Turabiate Simpson]

with what you're saying i believe he was convicted based on the evidence that was presented to the court i do agree with that but unfortunately the limelight and the stardom you know got involved in all this and it went to miss becky hill's head and here we are again you know just when we thought everybody was going back you know to some kind of normalcy here we go again with this and it it's opening up you know the wound that was starting to close and it's hard i believe the dogs told on him you know that he was not alone when he made that call he was not alone i call him the cleaners i will not disclose who i believe i know who they who i think they are you know i more than positive i i know who they are when alex maggie and paul were at the kennels if you hear the kennel video you don't hear the other dogs the dogs are calm as soon as you hear the beginning of the phone call the dogs are barking and moving

[Nancy Grace]

around from our friends at daily mail miss simpson explained to me alex murdaugh's behavior before and after the murders they

[Blanca Turabiate Simpson]

were normal there was nothing that would say that they weren't a loving family they were very caring for each other they they did everything together they traveled together if he was gonna be gone on the weekend you know him and maggie would go together the boys would go with him too there was nothing to indicate that there was anything wrong with the fam with with anybody in the family of course there was stress you know here and there like you know most families but you know with the pending you know litigation that was coming up but there was not any issue with them as far as there wasn't anything indicating that there was anything you know wrong with the relationship or anything of that sort after the after the murders he was very he was like inconsolable he was you know he would cry he would you know kind of like sit and kind of like look off at a distance but there was a lot of people around him during that time you know trying to console him and then there was moments where you know he was fine and then there was moments where he would

[Nancy Grace]

just start crying so let me understand this do you in some way think murdaugh is innocent no ma' am i

[911 Caller]

don't

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[Nancy Grace]

with nancy grace joining me now renowned psychoanalyst out of the la jurisdiction doctor bethany marshall she's the author of deal breaker you can see her now on peacock and bravo and you can find her at dr bethany marshall dot com doctor bethany i dislike him even more now after hearing miss simpson speak because after the murders he sat around and let everyone console him knowing he committed the double murders shooting maggie in the back of the skull execution style stippling you've been with us enough to know what that means that means that the gun was so close to her head it burned her skin and he is getting consoled and people are making food for him and bringing him flowers and patting him on the back and handing him kleenex really is disgusting well nancy

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

not only is it disgusting it's his moment of glory right so you know alex murdoch was excellent he was practiced at extracting resources from other people whether it's money from clients trust funds whether it was sympathy from the people around him he was good at acting and nancy let me remind the viewers that his offending pattern was he would spend money that was not his to spend maybe he stole it from a client trust account or he would like with gloria satterley he would say to her son hey why don't we just file wrongful death lawsuit against me and you can have the money then of course he keeps the money so what he perennially has to do is steal from the next victim in order to repay the victim from the time before so that is exactly what he's doing with this court case it's the same offending pattern now he has a chance to say hey i don't really owe that six hundred thousand dollars to my attorneys becky hill you pay it you're the one who got me this guilty verdict so you pay it now i have even more resources although you know what nancy you know who he's stealing from now he's stealing from the taxpayers he's stealing from us because this is going to be a new long expensive court case so the offending pattern is going on and on and on it's like will it never end and i bet whatever depression he was experiencing behind bars has evaporated because he's gotten away with it once again doctor bethany what i

[Nancy Grace]

don't understand is how you can keep a straight face with everyone rubbing your shoulders and handing you kleenex and making you chicken soup after you just murdered your son and your wife and left them to bleed into the dirt and the dog kennel they were all marks

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

just like all of his clients who he stole from out of their trust funds and then the people from the church and his housekeeper and everybody cooking for him he loves to manipulate out of other people he loves to get things that are not his to get that do not belong to him even if it's just sympathy he loves to get it nancy he doesn't have a conscience he's one of these people where we can truly and accurately use the word cold blooded because if you heard the housekeeper just now bianca she's talking about how he was going on trips with the kids and they're going hunting together and all of that he's acting like a dad nancy whereas have no problem just seeing their brains splattered out somewhere that's how little he actually thinks of them they're just like a woman putting on jewelry that's just adornment it's just jewelry it's just there to make her look better in the moment that's what his family was like they actually in a way were like the beard they were the people who he assembled around him to make him look normal while he was stealing from other people so he in a way recruited them as foot soldiers in his crime enterprises

[Nancy Grace]

joining me now director cold case foundation former homicide detective who has worked over three hundred homicides and he is the star of the interview room on youtube our friend our colleague chris mcdonough we disagree wildly on the guthrie case but i believe we agree on this case chris mcdonough have you ever seen a defendant win in court whether it's a not guilty verdict whether it's a motion whether it's getting rid of a juror they don't like and you look at them you know they did it and they're getting a victory like murdoch has gotten this is a huge victory to get a reversal on a double murder that hardly ever happens but it has happened and then the prosecutors the sheriffs sled south carolina law enforcement they have to watch him gloat it's sickening but i'll tell you what's even more disturbing is imagining him at the funeral home or with everyone fawning all over him and he knows he did it

[Advertisement Voice]

yeah

[Chris McDonough]

i mean you know we have to respect our system right but at the same time to your point exactly nancy you know this is a gentleman you know as the good doctor bethany has just pointed out this guy's past feeling i mean he has no capacity to understand what it's like to have the sense of empathy the fact that he pulls his wife to the property that evening and then calls his son while going to the property so he's got two things happening he's calling buster you know just checking in on the family saying he's going to go see mom and paul while intentionally knowing he's going to blow their heads off and or execute them as you know doctor earlier had pointed out this guy set this entire thing up god set a witness at that kennel that evening and that was the dog and and then the second piece of that obviously was the video where you can hear his voice that you know this guy if he ever gets another opportunity i agree he i think he's going to take the stand i think it would be a foolish thing to do obviously but i believe he may take the stand again and you know we're up for another

[Nancy Grace]

crazy time alex murdaugh is heading to a retrial very quickly to mark pepper a veteran trial lawyer out of charleston south carolina it's very rare that a murder case much less a double murder case gets reversed but it has happened is there any way on god's green earth mark that the state is going to enter into a guilty plea zero

[Mark Pepper]

point zero percent chance and even if one were to be offered nancy there's a zero percent chance that alec would even entertain it this is going to trial but the attorney general's office has already indicated that they intend to re indict should they choose to and get this case to trial perhaps by the end of the year dick harpootle and jim griffin have all come out and said we look forward to our day in court the only question is where the trial may occur and when but there's a zero percent chance that anybody

[Nancy Grace]

will be talking plea offer okay to dave mack joining us crime stories investigative reporter that means there's not a plea there's going to be a trial there's only one way murdoch could plea without the state agreeing to it and that would be a blind plea which means you don't have an agreement as to the sentence you just put it up to the judge and for all we know the judge could give the death penalty on a blind plea and you can't take it back once you do a blind plea a blind plea is where the prosecutor and the defense do not agree on the sentence and the defense just puts it to the judge they plead guilty and they stand there and wait to find out what the judge is going to say in sentencing that's not going to happen so mark pepper is right there's not going to be a plea in this case listen

[Mark Pepper]

never will plead guilty off the table we want a trial they can dismiss it yeah they can dismiss these charges

[Nancy Grace]

you know but he'll never enter to

[Mark Pepper]

a plea which required some admission that

[Unidentified Speaker]

he did something he didn't do from

[Nancy Grace]

our friends at fox straight out to dave mack crime stories investigative reporter tell me about the death penalty what's happening

[Unidentified Speaker]

well nancy it was interesting that harpoon said hey what has changed in the last few years that now you put the death penalty on the table well south carolina attorney general alan wilson confirming that his office is considering seeking the death penalty against murdoch should he be found guilty a second time the idea behind this is that when they did the first trial nancy they were having problems in south carolina with actually carrying out the death penalty and there was a moratorium they were dealing with the drugs and everything that goes into the actual death penalty sentence that's why it wasn't put on the table the first time now that they're coming back to it it's a much different situation if you remember during the first trial there was a lot of debate over how much of the financial accusations of wrongdoing would come into the trial well that's all a foregone conclusion now we know what he pleaded there so this is just straight up one thing and one thing only it's the murders of maggie and paul nothing else and now south carolina says we're putting the death penalty

[911 Caller]

on the table possibly what is your emergency on salcohatchee road okay what's the address on sarcastic row i'm by the church huh what church what church are you talking about i don't know the name of it with the red roof okay what end of sarcatcherous i don't know what you're talking about at the hampton county side okay what's going on i stopped i got a flat tire somebody stopped to help me and when i turned my back they tried to shoot me oh okay were you shot yes but i mean i'm okay you shot where where were you shot at huh did they actually shoot you they tried to shoot you they shot me but okay wait you need ems well i mean yes i can't drive okay and i'm bleeding a lot what part of your body i'm not sure somewhere

[Nancy Grace]

on my head gigi mckelvey joining us investigative journalist host of pretty lies and alibis and gigi you remember that right after gunning down his wife and son he then set up an elaborate plot to have himself shot on a rural road to make it look like the real killer was after him then he shows up in court after his lawyer said he had brain damage with a band aid right here really do you

[Gigi McKelvey]

remember that i remember it well i remember getting that alert on my phone and at first we all thought whoever got maggie and paul definitely tried to get him but very quickly the story seemed to fall apart and whoa whoa

[Nancy Grace]

whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa gigi you actually thought that somebody else killed paul and maggie and they were after alex murdock you really thought that for a

[Gigi McKelvey]

minute well at the time i thought why would anybody just shoot him on the side of the road i didn't think it didn't even compute that he had set this up i mean it's almost unbelievable to think that so for a hot minute yeah i thought oh

[Nancy Grace]

my goodness look at your screen did you see that can i see his head again there's the injury i can't

[Gigi McKelvey]

even see it yeah my kids got worse when they were little yeah okay

[Nancy Grace]

there was this one time my son scraped his knee and it was worse than that so he actually bamboozled you because when i heard he was shot in the head but when i heard the nine hundred eleven he's perfectly lucid the first thing i thought was now how did murdoch arrange to be shot on a rural road to make it look like the real killer's wandering around out there that was my first thought and guess what yeah that is exactly

[Gigi McKelvey]

what happened right and after i heard that nine one one call i said oh no no no this was set up but just for a second you hear you know our local news comes across and says you know alec murdoch shot on the side of the road i thought oh man they got him but after hearing that nine one one call i said oh no this was an inside job he knew exactly who did it and he set it up

[Nancy Grace]

foreign

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[Nancy Grace]

com crime stories with nancy grace to mark pepper joining us veteran trial lawyer in this jurisdiction my whole point why do i care about him having himself shot on the side of the road just enough to make it look bad sodd some other dude did it he's gonna try the same thing from what i hear and they may rethink this they should they're gonna try to blame some other dude for doing it somebody else shot paul and maggie same thing as getting shot on the side of the road some other dude did it turns out to be his wonky cousin that's some other dude that he paid to do it so are they really going to go down that road pepper

[Mark Pepper]

well i don't think they have a choice at this point you know you're trying to create reasonable doubt one way to do it is to point to third party guilt you got to stay within the laws and the confines of our constitution our rules of evidence but yeah some other dude did it is always a valid defense we know cousin eddie's out there we've got other you know drug smuggling operations with this opioid addiction out there i think we're going to see a different type of defense put on here in this next retrial some other dude did it will play at some point in this trial they've got everything they need to do it they've got the cousin eddie they've got all the characters you've got other you know victims out there you've got these bad actors down in the walterboro all the way down to hampton county beaufort county there's plenty of other people who potentially had opportunity now motive that's gonna be tough to convince clearly alec would be the one that had the most motive but certainly that is going to be a defense in this retrial some other dude did it what dude let

[Nancy Grace]

me see his face while he spins out this big lie hold on what dude you're like you know what this is a compliment did you ever read to your children rumpelstiltskin do you remember that the little imp that could take straw and spin it into gold that's what hart pootle and does that's what you're doing right now what other dude what some other dude well the beauty

[Mark Pepper]

of the it doesn't matter that's the beauty of the trial system nancy

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

give

[Mark Pepper]

me a kleenex well look that's what good criminal defense lawyers it doesn't matter

[Nancy Grace]

who you black just anybody will do

[Mark Pepper]

well you just you're trying to prevent twelve reasonably minded people from convicting your client beyond a reasonable doubt you don't have to come up with names you don't have to come up with places of who they are and how they did it you've just got to create the reasonable doubt by pointing to someone other than the guy sitting in the defense chair next to you i mean that's how those things play out and that's what we criminal defense lawyers do and and do quite well here in

[Nancy Grace]

south carolina i bet you do you know i've got a question based on what you just said i can see hartputlian spinning it out and blaming somebody somebody that would want to kill maggie and paul but then suddenly it got complicated dave mac oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive dave mac because in his ill fated effort to pretend the real killer was out there and tried to kill him on the side of the road what he has done now is forever poison his well and telling a jury some other dude did it because he's already tried that once and i can just hear the prosecution shooting a torpedo into the some other dude did it defense and that is where the defense is headed as pepper pointed out they may not have any choice they're working with what they've got but he's already gone to that well he's already been there how can he with a straight face claim again some other dude did it dave mack again back to the death penalty a lot is riding on this the state now announcing they are considering the death penalty on alex murdaugh and dave mack you and i have analyzed this many many times the aggravating circumstances required for the death penalty dave such as mass murder more than one body qualifies as mass murder under the law here we've got two lying in wait he lured maggie and paul to moselle the hunting lodge and he lay in wait for the right moment to murder them also pecuniary or money interest his whole point in killing them was he did not want his financial crimes to the tune of twelve million dollars to be exposed as they would in a divorce proceeding or a civil lawsuit against him and his son paul so long story short aggravating circumstances dave mack you and i covered it the first time it's teeming with death penalty

[Unidentified Speaker]

aggravation nancy you're dead on right everything that is needed to try this as a death penalty case is right there when you look at the financial motive the idea that everything in his world was falling apart financially i mean it was all there on top of that he knew there was more damage financially and otherwise coming from a possible trial about paul's boat crash so all of these negatives are stepping up and you know the one thing is not being mentioned nancy is that maggie was not staying at moselle she was at the beach house she was not even she did not want to be around her husband anymore and he knew it he had to lure her back from the beach house to come to moselle that night and it plays out the digital evidence is there that what took place that night how it took place and all the motivation to match up for what's needed in a death penalty case

[Nancy Grace]

it's right there gigi mckelvey joining us out of this jurisdiction south carolina investigative journalist and star of pretty lies and alibis gigi what are the betting odds that the state's going to seek the

[Gigi McKelvey]

death penalty i think it's a very good chance just like what was just mentioned is it does check all the aggravating factors and i think that alan wilson you know a lot of people have said is this a political move because it's reelection year but i do think that they will go for the death penalty just to just to really sock it to him for having to do this twice and also because of what was done to maggie and paul and how egregious it was we are

[Nancy Grace]

told vegas odds are very slim but pointing to the state will seek the death penalty against alex murdoch if you believe a gambling outfit that said the first time around we were told that because there had been a moratorium of sorts on the death penalty in south carolina it hadn't been sought for thirteen years that there was no point in seeking it because it couldn't be obtained well that has changed let's see if the state follows through on the double murders of maggie and paul and one more time to doctor kendall crowns doctor crowns could you re enlighten us refresh our recollection on what happened to paul

[Dr. Kendall Crowns]

and maggie so again maggie had five gunshot wounds about her body two of which one in the abdomen one in the thigh had gunpowder stippling or gunpowder tattooing which means they occurred anywhere from two to six inches to two to three feet so the gun was in intermediate range when it was shot at them one of the wounds was to the back of her head that entered into her skull and went into her brain and would have killed her so it does appear that she was shot down shot to her knees and then executed with the gunshot wound being put into the back of her head she does also have a wound to her left wrist which could be her trying to block being shot at the time it was all occurring the son has two shotgun injuries one to the chest that comes into his chest and blows out of the armpit and then one that comes into the neck and then blows out the top of his head taking out a large portion of his brain so they were both shot multiple times and with different weapons one with a high powered rifle the other with

[Nancy Grace]

a shotgun the state will have to give a clear and convincing reason under the law as to why it is seeking the death penalty second time around when it didn't the first time around to ensure to a court satisfaction that they are not seeking the death penalty out of punishment for alex murdaugh appealing and getting a new trial i believe they can carry that burden the state is building its case it's a whole new trial if you know or think you know anything regarding this case please dial eight zero three eight nine six two six zero five we remember an american hero officer jeff mccoy oklahoma department corrections shot killed in the line of duty after seven years leaving behind wife megan and two children alexander and ally american hero officer jeffrey mccoy nancy grace signing off goodbye friend

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[Nancy Grace]

is an i heart podcast guaranteed human