KILLER LAWYER ALEX MURDAUGH ESCAPES MURDER CONVICTION, CASE REVERSED

Summary

Podcast Summary: "KILLER LAWYER ALEX MURDAUGH ESCAPES MURDER CONVICTION, CASE REVERSED"

Podcast: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
Date: May 15, 2026
Host: Nancy Grace
Guests: John Mobley (Trial Lawyer), Jennifer Wood (Fitz News), Amy Williams (Juror & Author), Dr. Michelle Dupree (Forensic Pathologist), Dr. Bethany Marshall (Psychoanalyst), Chris McDonough (Detective & Cold Case Foundation), Dave Mack (Crime Stories Reporter)
Theme: Explosive reversal in the Alex Murdaugh murder conviction—judges call for a new trial

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Episode Overview

Nancy Grace and a panel of legal and forensic experts break down the shocking reversal of Alex Murdaugh's murder conviction in South Carolina. The episode explores the basis for the Supreme Court’s unanimous decision, guest perspectives on the case’s evidence and the likelihood of a new trial, and emotional reactions from one of the original jurors. The episode is a deep dive into the legal and forensic intricacies of the Murdaugh case and what happens next.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

The Supreme Court’s Unanimous Decision to Reverse

• Grounds for Reversal: The South Carolina Supreme Court found that jury impartiality was compromised due to improper comments made by former Clerk of Court Becky Hill to jurors about Alex Murdaugh’s testimony.
  • "[The clerk] had conversations with jurors about specifically Alex’s testimony... that's enough to overturn that verdict."
    — Jennifer Wood [03:10-03:42]
• Outcome: The case is remanded for further proceedings, likely a new trial.
• Scope of Ruling: The court did not rule on issues related to financial evidence but advised limiting such material if retried.
  • "12.5 hours of testimony was excessive and it should be limited in the next trial to just what is needed to prove motive."
    — Jennifer Wood [15:42-16:21]

Was the Right Decision Made?

• Legal Standard: South Carolina law focuses on whether improper communications dealt with the jury likely affected the verdict, not strictly "jury tampering."
  • "The issue is whether or not there was an improper communication with the jurors such that it probably affected the outcome."
    — John Mobley [04:52-06:43]
• Universal Disappointment: All guests agree that the reversal was legally necessary, even if the outcome is personally disappointing.

Revisiting the Evidence: Circumstantial vs. Direct

• Voice on Video: The single most compelling piece of evidence remains Murdaugh’s voice in the dog kennel video moments before the murders.
  • "So isn't it true... the voice heard in the dog kennel... is in fact, killer lawyer Alex Murdoch?"
    — Nancy Grace [07:42-08:00]
  • "Absolutely yes."
    — John Mobley [08:00]
• Digital Footprints: Vehicle data showed Murdaugh’s movements aligning with the murders' timeline, and Maggie’s phone was found on the roadside coinciding with his route. [08:22-09:45]
• Forensic Details:
  • Paul’s death was especially violent; his head was "blown off," with brain matter on a doorjamb. Maggie was shot multiple times, including execution-style while face down.
    — Dr. Michelle Dupree [18:16-19:19], [22:59-23:17]
• Motive Debate:
  • Nancy Grace: "Maggie wanted a divorce... all of his financial BS... would be found out." [13:05-14:40]
  • Mobley describes the financial-motive argument as "a red herring" and questions the logistics of one person committing both murders with two long guns in quick succession.
    — John Mobley [10:03-12:04]

Juror’s Perspective and What Influenced the Verdict

• Juror Amy Williams:
  • Was shocked by the reversal; did not find Becky Hill’s comments influential.
    • "For me, [her comments] didn't result in a guilty verdict... I did not hear [most of] the comments." [24:43-25:22]
  • The kennel video and Murdaugh’s lies under oath were pivotal:
    • "The strongest would be the video... that he lied about. He couldn't make sense of the timeline." [26:28-27:00]
  • Financial crimes were not the basis for the conviction:
    • "No, that's not true... all the evidence pointed to him and him only." [29:09-29:50]
  • Murdaugh’s courtroom demeanor undermined his credibility:
    • "He just pushes it over the top, then he'll fall out of character." [27:12-27:28]
  • "I can vote it a million times. He is guilty. No doubt about it." [42:11]

Analysis of the Crime Scene and Murdaugh’s Actions

• Unusual Weapon Use: Debate over using two long weapons by a single perpetrator. [10:03-10:54]
• Lack of Direct Evidence: Mobley presses the absence of murder weapons and bloody clothing.
  • "Where were the murder weapons... the bloody clothes... that just doesn't make any sense to anybody." [35:44-38:01]
• Juror Counter: Williams points out Murdaugh "set the timeline" and had time to clean up. [38:01-39:24]

Systemic Issues and Societal Context

• Power and Privilege: Dr. Bethany Marshall notes Murdaugh’s legacy and power allowed him to evade scrutiny for decades, and compares patterns of manipulation between Murdaugh and Clerk Becky Hill.
  • "Offending patterns are alike, whether you're a psychopath or the bumbling church lady." [21:00-22:38]
• Domestic Violence Angle: Dr. Marshall interprets the murders as driven by rage and desperation tied to Maggie’s intent to leave.
  • "Women... are at the greatest risk for homicide when they are about to leave a relationship." [33:07-35:38]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the reversal:

  • "There's going to be a reversal because Alex's sixth Amendment right... may have been compromised."
    — John Mobley [02:00]

• On the weight of evidence:

  • "There's no question in my mind that Alex Murdoch is guilty. But the question I have... should I believe you or my lion eyes?"
    — Nancy Grace [06:43]

• On the inherited system:

  • "He had been on a crime spree for 20 plus years and hiding behind the power of the Murdoch dynasty."
    — Dr. Bethany Marshall [20:39]

• Juror’s reflection on the media:

  • "Where is the person that did it? ... We already have him in jail."
    — Amy Williams [30:26]

• Expert consensus:

  • "The court did what it had to do. That doesn't mean I have to agree with it or like it."
    — Nancy Grace [25:22]

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Key Timestamps

| Time | Segment Description | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:27 | Episode introduction: case reversal announced | | 02:00 | Explanation: Grounds for Supreme Court reversal (jury comments) | | 03:10 | Details of Clerk Becky Hill’s improper interactions with jurors | | 07:42 | Voice ID’d as Alex Murdaugh at the kennel (key evidence) | | 18:16 | Dr. Dupree describes the violence and forensics of the murders | | 24:15 | Amy Williams, juror, reacts to the case reversal | | 26:28 | Juror discusses the pivotal evidence – the kennel video | | 29:50 | Williams refutes claims that financial crimes determined the verdict | | 31:20 | Chris McDonough on the evidence and upcoming retrial | | 33:07 | Dr. Bethany Marshall: Societal collusion and domestic violence analysis | | 35:44 | Mobley questions logistical plausibility of Murdaugh acting alone | | 42:11 | Amy Williams: "Definitely guilty. I will vote it a million times over." |

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Final Thoughts

• Legal consensus: Most panelists agree the Supreme Court was correct, given what was presented. The reversal is about maintaining integrity, not a judgment on evidence strength.
• Outlook: A new trial is all but guaranteed, potentially with stricter evidence limitations and less focus on Murdaugh’s financial crimes.
• Juror conviction: Despite the reversal, juror Amy Williams and most panelists remain convinced of Murdaugh's guilt.

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Bottom Line

The episode underscores that Alex Murdaugh will almost certainly face another trial, with experts and jurors emphatic in their belief in his guilt, despite acknowledgment of legal necessity for the case reversal. The show lays bare the intersection of privilege, forensic detail, courtroom conduct, and justice system safeguards in one of America’s most explosive criminal sagas.

Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

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[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

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[John Mobley]

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[Nancy Grace]

Stories with Nancy Grace. Killer lawyer Alex Murdaugh escapes his murder convictions. That's right, the case reversed. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Tell me it's not true. Yes, I predicted it, but please tell me it's not true. Sources stating there' unanimous vote coming down for reversal.

[Jennifer Wood]

I think it is true. I think we might be looking at a new trial.

[Nancy Grace]

There's going to be a reversal because

[John Mobley]

Alex's sixth Amendment right to a fair and impartial jury trial may have been compromised.

[Nancy Grace]

The bombshell has left a crater and it's mighty wide. Straight out to Jennifer Wood joining us. Director, Research, Fitz News. Well, nobody believed us last week when we reported that the case is getting reversed and it has been. What happened?

[Jennifer Wood]

The Supreme Court ruled unanimously that Alex Murdoch's trial was not fair, that the jury tampering affected the verdict, and they have remanded it back to the circuit court for further proceedings and likely a new trial.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, what alternative is there? Jennifer Wood, do you actually think there won't be a new trial and the state will take a plea and the defense will take take a plea? I don't see that happening.

[Jennifer Wood]

Me either. I do not anticipate a plea. I believe we are looking at a new trial and based on Attorney General Ellen Wilson's comments yesterday, we're looking at a new trial sooner rather than later.

[Nancy Grace]

Jennifer Wood, what was the grounds of reversal?

[Jennifer Wood]

The grounds of reversal was that former clerk of court Caldon County, Becky Hill had had conversations with jurors about specifically Alex Texas testimony. The in two days he sat on the stand and testified, telling them, you know, watch his body language. This is a big day. And apparent, you know, according to the Supreme Court, that is enough to overturn that verdict and send it back.

[Nancy Grace]

According to a couple of jurors, the clerk of court, Becky Hill made comments that led them to believe she thought Murdoch was guilty and they claim that affected their verdict. John Mobley joining us, veteran trial lawyer with the John Mobley law firm out of South Carolina. John, thank you for being with us. John, with all of that evidence, how could they vote any other way? And you know what? Well, John, could you take a look at your screen? I'm going to show you Murloc on the stand snotting and crying and having to admit he lied. He had to admit under oath that he lied under oath. He snotted and cried and carried on and ended up having to place himself at the crime scene when digital forensics had already placed him there. Then finally he drags up on the stand and went, yeah, I lied. I mean, really, there was so much evidence. You really think the clerk with her offhand comments caused a guilty verdict? John Mobley, from our friends at wltv.

[John Mobley]

Well, you know, Nancy, I gotta call it like I see it a lot to impact of what you said. First thing I'm going to say is I'm going to disagree with your statement about how much evidence there was. I mean, I think there's certainly plenty of evidence that Alex Murdaugh is a liar and a thief and a generally despicable human being. But when you take that out of the case, when you take out the evidence of him stealing money from clients in his firm and being a liar and thief, and you focus on the circumstantial because it's not direct, but the circumstantial evidence that connects him to the murder at best is tenuous. I really think the only thing they had to kind of connect him was the opportunity based on his voice being on the Snapchat. So that's the first thing I want to say now regarding whether or not the decision was right. I completely agree with the decision 100%, it was the right thing to do. I mean, you know, in South Carolina, you know, the standard in a case like this under these circumstances, you know, people refer to it as jury tampering. It's not technically jury tampering in South Carolina. The standard or the issue is whether or not there was an improper communication with the jurors such that it probably affected the outcome. So clearly there was a communication by the clerk of court, another despicable, dishonest human being here in South Carolina, our lovely state, clearly there was a, you know, communication. It was clearly improper. And the litmus test, you know, the million dollar question is whether or not that communication possibly affected the outcome. Well, at the hearing, the jury that testified testified that it probably did affect her decision. So, I mean, once I heard that, I was actually shocked that the decision was to set aside. The trial was denied at the hearing. So it was the 100% right thing to do.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, I gotta tell you, John Mobley, there's no question in my mind that Alex Murdoch is guilty. But the question I have right now is, should I believe you or my lion eyes? Because I want you to look and listen to this video.

[Amy Williams]

Get back. Get back. Quick. Cash. Come on. Quick. That's okay. Come here. Come here. Cash. Post it, Cash.

[John Mobley]

Hey, he's got a bird in his mouth.

[Nancy Grace]

Hey, bubba.

[Amy Williams]

It's a guinea. This is a chicken. Come here, Cash. Cash, quick.

[Nancy Grace]

So isn't it true, Dave Mack, Crime Stories investigative reporter, that it was proven in court under oath that the voice heard in the dog kennel the scene of the murders is in fact, killer lawyer Alex Murdoch? That's a yes. No. Wasn't that proven in court?

[John Mobley]

Absolutely yes.

[Nancy Grace]

And a Mac. Isn't it true that after calling in the Secret Service to unlock Paul's phone, it was determined that Snapchat was sent just minutes before Paul and Maggie were gunned down. Less than five minutes.

[Amy Williams]

Yep.

[John Mobley]

That was recorded at 8:44pm June 7, 2021.

[Nancy Grace]

So, John Mobley. You're a veteran defense attorney with the Mobley law firm, John. He places himself at the scene of the crime with that video that he hoped would never be uncovered. And then his own digital footprint that he left behind. Can't you just see him in the dark there at Moselle, running, Can't see anything but butthole and elbows running away from the scene, his wife and his son bleeding out in the dirt. Then he jumps in his car, and unbeknownst to him, everything he did would be digitally recorded with the vehicle, the SUV's black box, so to speak. Shows when he cranked up. Shows put it in reverse, put it in drive. Scratched off like Moody's goose. Slowed down, let his driver side window down electronically, where, coincidentally, Maggie's phone was thrown out on the side of the road. Then he scratched off to hide out at his mommy's place. He's there at the scene of the crime less than five minutes before they're murdered. He placed himself at the scene, John. What are you saying somebody else did?

[John Mobley]

Well, I mean it. Well, number one, it's his house. He's kind of going to be at the scene. I mean, so I don't think that's a surprise. So, I mean, I think, you know, you're.

[Nancy Grace]

They're dead.

[John Mobley]

Yeah. Theory,

[Nancy Grace]

but not with two dead bodies on the dining room floor.

[John Mobley]

Yeah, but, you know, you're taking one circumstance and you're. And you're eliminating all other possibilities, and you're not really talking about what's missing in the case. And when I say that, keep in mind the circumstances of this murder. These two murders are very, you know, distinct. I mean, you have two different weapons, not just two different firearms that were used. You have two different long firearms that were used to. To murder two people in close proximity. And I think there's. You would. I think you would have to agree with me that it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense for one individual to use two separate long weapons to commit two murders in close proximity.

[Nancy Grace]

Put him up.

[John Mobley]

Excuse me. So I think you have that issue, Mr. Mobley. Yes.

[Nancy Grace]

You do know that before I sat in this anchor chair, I tried nothing but felonies in inner city Atlanta, which was then one of the murder capitals of the world. Does it make sense. Let me ask you. Query. Does it make sense to gun down your own son and wife just because they're about to crack your financial crimes wide open and you're going to lose a whole heap of money? Is that a sensical solution to financial undoing? I submit no. But yet he did it, so it doesn't have to make sense, because nothing about double murder makes sense. He owned firearms exactly like the firearms that were used. So, yeah, it makes perfect sense. And guess what? He stores at Moselle his firearms. And when you say circumstantial. Circumstantial. Isn't it true, Mr. Mobley, that the law is. I want to see him. The law is and is in the judge's jury instructions that circumstantial evidence under the law is as powerful if the jury so deems as direct evidence. Isn't that the law?

[John Mobley]

The law is circumstantial. Evidence is good evidence. However, the chain of circumstances can only lead to that one conclusion and cannot. You have to eliminate other reasonable inferences based on those circumstances. And I do believe, and I've said it from the beginning, that the circumstances of these murders lead to more than one inference that he committed the crimes. And I want to address what you're saying about the financial crimes, because what you're saying is consistent with the prosecution's theory. But I've always said that was a red herring. I've always said that was a mistake because. And let's talk about that. You know, this whole thing that he was going to commit the murders to somehow derail the financial investigation makes no sense whatsoever. I mean, that train was coming down the tracks. Whether his wife and son got murdered or not. That was not going to erase the ink and those financial records. And he got away with that for years. Why would he not think he would continue to get away with it or could buy his way out of it or could pay everybody off? I mean, there were so many other issues.

[Nancy Grace]

I'll tell you what. If you will take a breath, I will tell you what. The reason it had to happen now is because Maggie wanted a divorce. Up until this moment, she had not wanted a divorce. But now she does want a divorce. Gee, I wonder why. She would have legal discovery in those divorce proceedings. And all of his financial BS, his stealing $12 million, would be found out. And two, Paul, his son, drove drunk as a skunk on a boat belonging to Murdaugh. Everybody begged him, get away from the wheel. He wouldn't do it. What happened? He crashed into cement pylons and Mallory Beach, 19 years old, flew off the boat and died. Her bloated body found three days later floating face down. That lawsuit was coming to a head. He, Murdoch, Paul and a liquor store had all been sued. And it was set down in the next days that Paul would have to go to court on a legal proceeding regarding that lawsuit. And pursuant to that discovery, all of Murdoch's shenanigans were coming to light. And that hadn't happened until then. Until that happened, he probably could have got away with it. But no, not anymore. It all came to a head. Evidence came out at trial that he lured Maggie to the location. She didn't want to go to Moselle. She told her friend, I don't know why he wants me to come out there, but I'm Going just before she was murdered.

[John Mobley]

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Regarding the financial crimes, I've read the Supreme Court opinion, the South Carolina Supreme Court opinion to Jennifer Woods. Isn't it true that the South Carolina Supreme Court did not pass on the financial evidence as being reversible because they didn't have to. They reversed on other grounds. Those grounds being Becky woods behavior. The clerk.

[Jennifer Wood]

Yeah. So they said that due to the reversal on Becky Hill's conduct, they did not really have to address the evidentiary issues, but they did offer the trial court guidance for, for the second trial in terms of the financial evidence. And while they did say it was admissible as a motive, they noted that they, they actually did the math on this 12, approximately 12.5 hours of testimony was excessive and it should be limited in the next trial to just what is needed to prove motive.

[John Mobley]

He was very gracious, thankful, and he said, Jim, I'm seeing, I'm reading it and it's still hard to believe, but he's, he's glad to get that moniker off of him as a convicted murderer of his wife and son. No doubt about that. That jury was tampered with. That jury was told don't believe Alec before he got on the stand in so many words. And so the jurors came out saying we didn't believe him, but they were coached to not believe him. We do have information that's been provided to us, potential third parties and potential motives. And we just, we can't disclose it here right now and don't intend to. If you take away all this financial crime prejudicial, you know, victims testifying, the only, the only thing they have is this. He lied about where he was.

[Nancy Grace]

The Snapchat video.

[John Mobley]

Right. Other than that, the motive is paper thin.

[Nancy Grace]

Did you hear that? His own defense attorney. The only thing they have, he lied where he was. The Snapchat video placing him at the scene. Dr. Michelle Dupree joining us, renowned forensic pathologist. Oh, that's from our friends at the Today show, by the way. And those were Murdoch's lawyers, one being the very successful Harpoulian, Dr. Michelle Dupre, forensic pathologist, former medical examiner, former detective, Lexington County Sheriff's Department and author of Money, Mischief and the Murdoch Dynasty, the Rest of the Story. But for my purposes, she's also the author of the Homicide investigation field guide. Dr. Dupree, thank you for being with us. Could we just do a little reality check? John Mobley is so blithely describing what happened and the circumstantial evidence. Paul's head was blown off. His skull was in a different area. His brain matter was at the top of a door.

[Dr. Michelle Dupree]

That's right, Nancy. This was a horrific crime. And you know, forget about the two weapon controversy. That was forensic countermeasures, the injuries that these two people suffered. Paul, you're right. Paul was shot twice. He was shot under the armpit and he was shot at about, they estimate about three feet away. But then he was shot at almost point blank range with a shotgun, a 12 gauge shotgun that does massive injury, explosive injury to a person's head. And yet his skull, parts of his skull and his brain matter were on the dirt. His brain matter was on the door jamb, the upper part of the door jamb of that kennel. This was devastating. It was absolutely horrific. And Maggie, Maggie was shot five times. She was shot three times in the body. He was shot twice in the head. She was shot on the way to trying to help her son to get away. Her first shots, they were facing the killer. She saw who pulled that trigger.

[Nancy Grace]

She saw him straight out to renowned psychoanalyst, host of on the couch with Dr. Bethany podcast, author of Deal Breaker. You can see her now on Bravo and Peacock and you can find her at Dr.bethany marshall.com. Dr. Bethany Marshall, you have long wanted to weigh in on this debacle. And I'm not saying the Supreme Court, the South Carolina Supreme Court was wrong. I actually agree with Mobley that, you know, the Supreme Court is an appellate court. They don't question witnesses. They don't take evidence. They have to rely on the transcript they've been giving. I don't know that Becky woods offhand comments caused a guilty verdict. I think the evidence caused a guilty verdict. But the fact is she said them to the jury and that was wrong. And the jurors said what happened. I don't think they had any choice but to reverse this case, given what they had. But the way we're picking it apart so analytically, that was devastation in that dog kennel where two people bled out dead. What mind did it take to shoot your wife in the back as she Lied face down on the ground to shoot your own son.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Dr. Bethany, somebody who's completely psychopathic, has no regard for life. But Nancy, also a very desperate man. He had been on a crime spree for 20 plus years and hiding behind the power of the Murdoch dynasty. And not only was he about to be served discovery demands by his wife, but Nancy, his own law firm had confronted him the morning of the deaths, and they had a full spreadsheet, so he was going to be exposed there, too. But you know what? Really, this is really what confounds me is how similar the offending pattern is between Alex Murdoch and Becky Hill. He's a psychopath and she's the bumbling church lady. But both of them motivated by money, both sworn officers of the court, jury tampering and witness tampering. Remember Alex Murdock after the Mallory beach boat crash, he fought, followed those kids to the hospital and told them not to talk to anybody. So he witnessed. Tampered. Just like Becky Hill tampered with the jury. Colossally bad judgment, thinking that they could get away with it. No sense of consequences, and actually kind of seeing everybody as marks. I mean, we know to Alex Murdoch, everybody was a mark. Even his own housekeeper who fell down the steps. And then at her funeral, he approaches her son, says, hey, real wrongful death lawsuit against me. And then he keeps the $4.2 million settlement and never gives it to her sons. And, you know, Becky, I think, thought that she would get a big payday from this book. So I just want our viewers to know offending patterns are alike, whether you're a psychopath or you're the bumbling church lady. When people get in trouble, they get in trouble in very similar ways.

[Nancy Grace]

I just don't understand the psychopathy that could allow someone to bring themselves to the point where they shoot their wife. Point blank range. Isn't that right, Dr. Dupree, that Maggie was shot when she was already face down on the ground, shot in the back?

[Dr. Michelle Dupree]

She was. She was absolutely. And again, trying to get to your son when he's in danger like this? It's unthinkable. It's absolutely unthinkable.

[Nancy Grace]

And how is it, Dr. Dupree, that Paul's brain matter was found on the top of a door?

[Dr. Michelle Dupree]

The theory of that is he was shot first and on the side, basically under his arm. And so he turned, he sort of, you know, went over forward. And when he did that, that put him much closer to the barrel of the gun. And then it was an upward shot to his Head, which ended up having his. His brain matter on the upper part of the door frame and part of his brain left on the ground.

[Nancy Grace]

Joining us now, special guest Amy Williams, a giro on the Alex Murdoch double murder trial. Amy is also author of the Long Road to Justice, Unraveling Alex Murdaugh's tangled web. Ms. Williams, thank you so much for being with us. Congratulations on your incredible book. I know that took a lot of effort. Ms. Williams, what went through your mind when you heard the case is reversed?

[Amy Williams]

I was shocked. I couldn't believe it. Just wow. Wow is all I could say.

[Nancy Grace]

Why were you shocked? Do you believe that Becky Hill, who I met several times, very bubbly, outgoing, seemed very efficient. That was my knowledge of her. Did you hear the comments? And if so, do you think they resulted in a guilty verdict?

[Amy Williams]

I don't think for me, it didn't result in a guilty verdict. And the other 10 stated that it didn't for them. And I. Most of those comments I did not hear. I don't know what they were talking about or where it came from. So we took an oath, you know, by witness testimony and evidence to convict him. That's the only way we could do it. And that's what I did. And it was a lot to go through. So who had time to pay any attention to what anybody else was saying? I never felt like she was pushing an agenda with me. Never felt uncomfortable about it at all.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, I've got to tell you, my experience with her. Ms. Williams. Guys, joining us, a juror on the Alex Murdaugh double murder trial. There was a double murder conviction. It has just been reversed by the South Carolina Supreme Court. I agree with John Mobley, veteran trial lawyer. The court did what it had to do. That doesn't mean I have to agree with it or like it.

[John Mobley]

Right.

[Nancy Grace]

Amy has written an incredible book, the Long Road to Justice Unraveling Alex Murdock's Tangled Web. See, I believe, based on sitting in the courtroom watching the jurors, you watching the trial unfold, that there was overwhelming evidence of Murdaugh's guilt. My experience with Becky Hill, she was very nice, bubbly, outgoing, seemed very efficient.

[Amy Williams]

Yes.

[Nancy Grace]

If she said the things she did say, that wasn't proper, it was improper. I also think there was overwhelming evidence and that is why he was convicted. What did you consider, Ms. Williams, to be the strongest evidence against Murdoch?

[Amy Williams]

There was so much, but the strongest would be the video, considering that he said that he wasn't at the scene. And that was the most important piece that he lied about. And then once he got on the stand, he could not explain. Even though he admitted that he lied, he couldn't make sense of the timeline. He couldn't make sense of what happened. So why did they kill them and not you? What. What happened? You were there, you know, so that was the biggest piece for me. And then all the other pieces just fit together perfectly.

[Nancy Grace]

What did you make of all that snot? All that. You know, I mean, I had to look away. I was just wrong.

[Amy Williams]

Me, too. I had to say that. I always say that he's a horrible actor because he. He goes over the top. He just pushes it over the top, and then he. Then he'll fall out of character. He is just. It's insane. It was just insane the way he.

[Nancy Grace]

Don't know if you can see your monitor, but I'd like the viewers to see. Ms. Williams, we have him. Body cam. Oh, there's the snot. You know, I never said snot so many times in my life because I think it's really rude as until I got to the Alex Murdock trial. Then, you know, there's just really no other way to put it. That was from our friends at WLTV control room. Could you play for her? I don't know if she can see it or not. The body cam, where he's in the back of the car going, and all of a sudden he starts checking his phone. Just like that. It's just. There he goes. And then all of a sudden, he straightens up and he's on his phone. I don't know if anybody else noticed that, but. Oh, there you go. He's straightening up. Here it comes. Everybody's consult. There you go. Now, that was a jump cut, but that's pretty much what happened. Ms. Williams, I got to ask you, it's not secret anymore. What did the jury say about all that sniveling and lying on the stand

[Amy Williams]

in deliberations? I mean, we just said that it just wasn't. It was too much. I mean, it was entirely too much. And there's. It just wasn't real. It wasn't real.

[Nancy Grace]

Now, a lot of people are claiming that you all reach a guilty verdict because you found out about. Of all. All of his financial crimes to the tune of $12 million, I believe it was. And Jennifer Wood jump in, because you know the case better than anybody. Jennifer woods is joining us. She's the first one that told us a week ahead of time there was a reversal coming down the pike. So what did you think? About that, Ms. Williams, people are saying you all found him guilty because of his financial crimes.

[Amy Williams]

No. No, that's not true. And we were instructed to only consider it as a motive. And I believe it was part of a motive, but I think there was more in the pot. It was a bigger storm. It included more stuff. But, no, it was not based on the financial crimes. All the evidence pointed to him and him only. Him only. I mean, he tore. He played with Maggie, he tortured her, he spun her around, and then even after she was dead, as the pathologist said, when she hit the ground, he stood over her and shot her in the head. That's personal. That's a lot of rage. I mean, can I just say John

[Nancy Grace]

Mobley real quick, please? John Mobley. And you may want to go ahead and put him on mute right now. Hey, here you go. Here you go, Molly. I had this yesterday for Murdoch, but this is for you, because she just shot. Your theory about financial crimes is the reason they found him guilty and how wrong that was. She just shot that to hell and back. So if you want these, I'll FedEx them to you, okay? Silent tears. Okay, Back to you, Ms. Williams. What do you make of people that insist Murdaugh is innocent or somebody else did it?

[Amy Williams]

Where is the person that did it? Because Dick and Jim said that they were gonna find the real killer. So where is he? Where is he? Or she or whoever? You know why they can't find him? Because we already have him in jail. He's already been convicted. All the evidence pointed to him, not anyone else. He was in the circle, as the authorities said. He was the only one in the circle. I mean, this whole video that we're looking at now, he fell completely out of character so many times. I mean, it was just insane.

[Nancy Grace]

Hey, did you ever notice his shirt, Ms. Williams? Oh, I could talk to you all night long. Hey, Chris McDonough, veteran homicide detective director, Cold Case foundation, star of the interview room on YouTube. Chris, do you notice in his shirt he's got on. There's no blood on it at all.

[Dr. Michelle Dupree]

Nothing.

[Nancy Grace]

That's where. Was he wearing that when he found his wife and son dead?

[Chris McDonough]

Yeah, exactly, Nancy. I mean, and you called it from day one on this whole thing, and here we are now, you know, taking a step back, and he's going to get Act 2, you know, and rightfully so. I mean, I think the court ruled appropriately. However, the evidence has not changed in any way, shape or form. Let's not forget the other big piece of this is he lured his wife to that property that day. And within 90 seconds after that voice is heard, which is Alec on that voice, on that tape from his son, he blows that boy's head off, and then he executes his wife. And all of the digital evidence that was presented prove that beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Nancy Grace]

Dr. Michelle Dupre, you've studied the case. You've written a book. What do you think about this reversal? And what do you think about the murders themselves?

[Dr. Michelle Dupree]

Guilty. Absolutely guilty.

[Nancy Grace]

Jennifer Wood. You called it first. Jennifer, joining us from Fitz News. She is the director of research there. She told us a week ago this reversal was coming down. Nobody believed it. Well, it happened. Weigh in, Jennifer.

[Jennifer Wood]

Well, this reversal was not unexpected. It is still disappointing. And I don't think anybody is looking forward to a second trial. I do think the second trial is going to look vastly different than the first trial. I think we're going to see less financial evidence admitted. I would be surprised if Ella testifies. So it'll just be another roller coaster to see what happens next.

[Nancy Grace]

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Dr. Bethany Marshall. Have you ever seen anything like it in your life?

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

I believe Alec Murdoch's crime spree, which spanned decades, was aided and abetted by the fact that he was surrounded by people who looked up to him. He was a lawyer. He had power. He was educated. He came from a long line of judges. And because of that, there was kind of a societal collusion with him, which allowed him to keep using opiates, allowed him to keep stealing money from clients, taking money from his own law firm. And I think there were a lot of people around him who kind of knew what was going on, but they also couldn't believe it. At the same time, a number of stories, you know, really stick in my mind. When Paul crashed the boat, because he was driving three times over the legal limit in terms of alcohol, Alex Murdoch was allowed to go past the crime scene tape to the boat, whereas Mallory Beach's mother was kept behind the crime tape. She couldn't even go to check on her own daughter, which is so sad. Alex Murdock was then allowed into the hospital to influence the young people to not give testimony. I mean, questions were never asked. And I think what Amy just said, the juror on this show was so powerful when she talked about the execution type shot to Maggie Murdoch's head that this was up close and personal. It wasn't just motivated by hiding his financial crime. She was about to leave him. And women, as we know, and I've said again and again, are at the greatest Risk for homicide when they are about to leave a relationship. He shot Paul first, so Maggie had to see that. And when we think about domestic violence, often the children are abused or killed to get back at the other parent. So we can really think about this as a DV or domestic violence scenario where the child is taken out to punish the other parent. She had to see it. And then he shoots her execution style. So this is not just financially motivated, cover up, concealment motivated, but I think this is motivated by ongoing simmering rage towards somebody who is no longer going to do everything that he asked her to do.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, I'm about to pull the tiger by the tail. John Mobley, final thought.

[John Mobley]

You know, it's always so interesting to hear people talk about this case and talk about how overwhelming the evidence is and, and what a despicable person Murdoch is. And I will say, obviously you have to agree that he was an extremely unpleasant individual, that was dishonest, that was a liar, was a thief. I mean, he was still a nickel from his, you know, from his own mother and lie about it. But I mean, the things that are significant is there are, there's absolutely no history of violence in his past. There's zero. There's no allegation, there's no investigation that he ever engaged in any violent conduct toward anybody under any circumstance. All the, the prior ev is he's a, he's a thief and he's a very powerful person and a very, you know, corrupt individual, which we all agree. And it appears that, you know, while everyone will talk about overwhelming evidence of guilt and how he had to commit these murders, you know, 99% of what they talk about is his character and what a, you know, dishonest person he is. Even the jury that, that is so adamant that he committed the crimes, talks about his demeanor on the stand and, and you know, how she didn't like his personality and his demeanor and he was just honest and untrustworthy. That's not evidence of murder. I mean, there are a lot of questions in this case. I mean, you know, where were the murder weapons that they never found? Where are the bloody clothes? I mean, you know, what's so interesting they talk about is how, you know, he was there within 90 seconds all this stuff happened. And I'm thinking, okay, well, in 90 seconds he had two long weapons and killed his son, killed his wife and got rid of the bloody clothes, got rid of the bloody, you know, got rid of the weapons, such that, you know, an entire law enforcement department or two law enforcement departments after Canvas in the area could not find any of it. That just doesn't make any sense to anybody. It just does not. And I, and I challenge someone to say that he could hide all that stuff in 90 seconds and clean himself up and have no blood on him and get rid of all the phones and get rid of all the firearms and leave no trace of his presence at that crime scene and no blood or any other physical evidence on his person. I challenge anyone to say that he can do that in 90 seconds and completely evade the forensic investigation of two separate law enforcement agencies. I mean, it does not make sense. It defies logic.

[Amy Williams]

I understand what you're saying, but it was more than 90 seconds because he was the one that actually that pulled out the timeline. He was the one that made the timeline. He called 911 when he wanted to. So he called 911 after he got back from his parents house, which he, he, he took a shower. He could have washed in the, the little shed that they had to to clean theirs or whatever you do with that kind of stuff. There was something there where he could have showered, he could have showered in the house. He set the timeline. He did everything the way he wanted and he called 911 when he wanted to, so he had plenty of time. And then the police didn't even search the area completely that night. There were people all in the house before then, after then, and then when they finally do search the house, they can't find the guns, but they did prove that the, the guns, the bullets that they found outside of the house had the same scrations on it just like the bullets that they found in Maggie. Okay, so that tells you right there, it's like a fingerprint and it was family weapons were used. I mean, shoot, you have people who've been committed on murders for murders who you don't even have a body for. So we had enough evidence to show that he did it, plain and simple. He set the timeline. He did everything he wanted.

[John Mobley]

Well, I just think as far as the timeline goes, and that's another issue I have is when you're talking about the timeline and you're saying he set the timeline. I mean, that's another issue in the case. I mean there really is no clear timeline for the murders. You know, any, any, any attempt to put together a specific timeline is speculation at best. And that's what happens when you have, and I will tell you, you know, I prosecuted, I've defended these cases. And let me tell you what happens time and time again. You know, when There's a murder. And, you know, and I can tell you, I can guarantee you that when these bodies are found, Alex Murdaugh was the immediate suspect. And if you're going to say anything otherwise, and I think that's just not realistic. I mean, that spouse, the people that have the connection or the relationship with the victims are always the first and immediate suspects, whether law enforcement wants to admit that or not. Those are the first people they look at. And let me tell you about law enforcement. Once they kind of fix it on the suspect and they really don't look for anybody else, okay? And when they don't have clear evidence of anybody else and the evidence against that person is circumstantial, they're going to start going down that road, and they're not going to turn around, turn around. I can guarantee you that. And that's what happened in this case.

[Nancy Grace]

Chris McDonough, thoughts?

[Chris McDonough]

So, statistically, 92% of all homicides across this country are committed by people that know the victim. That means Alex Murdoch has an 8% chance of proving approximately that he's not the guy. Okay? This case is about a system that caught a court employee allegedly tampering with a jury. The Supreme Court rightfully turned it back and said, let's try this again. It doesn't erase what Murdoch did to his wife and son. Maggie and Paul deserve a fair trial and a verdict that actually sticks this time. This is about jury tampering, not the strength of the case. The timeline, the lies, the shotgun, the rifle, the evidence, the financial motive, and Murdoch's own voice on the kennel video stick rock solid to a presumption of guilt. The prosecution does not have to prove a motive. And I love the fact that, you know, if I'm ever in trouble in South Carolina, I'm going to call John because he has the ability, no doubt. Okay. To argue passionately for his clients. And I think in this one, though, he'll be unfortunately found incorrect on this one.

[Nancy Grace]

Final word to you, Ms. Williams.

[Amy Williams]

Definitely guilty. And I will vote it a million times over. In my book, my co author and I detail exactly how we went through the evidence, how we came to the verdict that we did, and how the evidence was just overwhelming against him. And we will vote this over and over and over again. I can vote it a million times. He is guilty. No doubt about it. I don't have to agree with what the court did. I understand, you know, according to the law, they had to do what they did, but he is guilty.

[Nancy Grace]

If you know or think you know anything about this case, the state is starting square one. If you have information, please call South Carolina Law Enforcement, 8038-9680-3896-2605. We remember American hero Sheriff Richard Coyle, Crittenden County Sheriff's Kentucky, shot in the line of duty after 30 years, leaving behind a wife, now widow, Jamie. American hero Sheriff Richard Coyle, Nancy Grace, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.