KILLER O.J. SIMPSON SPIED ON MY SOFA SEX SESSION WITH NICOLE

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: "KILLER O.J. SIMPSON SPIED ON MY SOFA SEX SESSION WITH NICOLE"

Date: January 19, 2026
Host: Nancy Grace
Guests: Keith Zalomzowicz (Nicole Brown’s former boyfriend, author), Dr. Bethany Marshall (psychoanalyst)

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Episode Overview

In this explosive episode, Nancy Grace explores the harrowing personal story of Keith Zalomzowicz, a former boyfriend of Nicole Brown Simpson, whose new book, Stalked: It Could Have Been Me, reveals chilling details about O.J. Simpson’s obsessive stalking and voyeurism prior to the infamous double murders. Through riveting conversation and psychological analysis, the episode delves into the patterns of domestic abuse, the psychology of stalking, and the profound real-life impact on survivors and their loved ones. Grace and her guests push listeners to confront the ugly, often hidden realities of intimate partner violence and its cascading effects.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Night O.J. Simpson Spied on Keith and Nicole (00:00–06:54)

• Keith recounts a night when he and Nicole, after spotting O.J. at the Roxbury nightclub (04:29), returned to her house, unaware O.J. was stalking and spying on them.
• Nancy highlights how normalized Nicole had become to O.J’s intrusions, referencing her resigned tone in 911 calls:
  • “Yeah, he's breaking into my house again. By this time, it had happened so many times and she had been beaten so many times.” (00:49, Nancy)
• Keith describes the horror of learning the next day that O.J. had been watching them during an intimate moment on Nicole’s couch:
  • “Come to find out, you know, I... need a shrink and I need one really quickly.” (05:17, Keith)
• Dr. Bethany Marshall labels O.J.'s behavior as “voyeurism and stalking,” explaining the psychology behind his actions:
  • “The perpetrator, the stalker, lives in a state of rejection all the time... He also believed that she belonged to him, like property.” (05:47, Dr. Bethany)

2. Pattern of Stalking, Jealousy, and Abuse (06:54–18:20)

• Nancy questions how O.J., admired and coveted by society, could experience such rejection. Dr. Bethany explains O.J.'s “pathological jealousy” and sociopathic traits:
  • “He only wanted her. Even if she went out for lunch with friends, he would feel betrayed and rejected.” (07:33, Dr. Bethany)
• Keith details O.J.'s subsequent break-in the following day—he barged in, confronted Keith and Nicole, and demanded to be alone with her, hurling insults and asserting dominance.
  • “He was getting angrier and angrier until finally Nicole realized the only way to get him out of there was to have me wait outside the bedroom door.” (09:43, Keith)
• The conversation turns to the psychological tactics of abusers:
  • “Devalue the woman, shame her, humiliate her, try to take down her credibility in front of the children. These are classic abuse signs.” (15:51, Dr. Bethany)

3. The Unrelenting Harassment and the "Two O.J.s" (18:20–29:02)

• Keith describes encountering O.J. at various public venues, noting how O.J. would routinely show up wherever Keith and Nicole went—even with an ostensible truce in place.
  • “He knew exactly where to go, where to find us. It was a pattern.” (20:01, Keith)
• O.J.'s public persona sharply contrasted with his private violence:
  • “There’s two O.J. Simpsons, Keith. There’s the public one that everybody sees, and there’s a private one that only I see.” (27:47, Keith, quoting Nicole)

4. Intimate Details of Nicole's Abuse (25:04–30:00)

• Keith recounts Nicole revealing the extent of O.J.'s physical violence and control, including beatings, being locked in closets, and her complex feelings of shame:
  • “There are times when they'd be on a trip together… she'd be beaten and locked in a closet. That happened more than once.” (26:47, Keith)
• Dr. Bethany elaborates on the psychological toll of abuse, victim self-blame, and manipulation:
  • “He wanted total control and dominance over her. To lock her in a closet is to have her all for himself and also to terrify her.” (30:00, Dr. Bethany)

5. Why Victims Stay—And the Broken Cycle (30:00–36:29)

• Nancy and Dr. Bethany dispel misconceptions about why victims of abuse remain in dangerous relationships, emphasizing shame, hope for change, and family dynamics.
• Listeners are warned: “It will get worse. Statistically, it will not get better.” (32:28, Nancy)

6. Keith’s Message and Aftermath of the Trial (33:54–47:24)

• Keith shares how his story has empowered other abuse survivors and the life-altering effects of Nicole’s murder on his own life:
  • “I've helped a lot of women out of circumstances… You gave me the strength to get out of this relationship when I didn’t think I had that.” (34:12, Keith)
• The discussion covers O.J.’s notorious trial, the public split perception, and how the "charming family man" defense worked to sway the jury:
  • “There's two O.J. Simpson, he's in public there... You're not going to see the private one.” (39:52, Keith)

7. Final Reflections: Loss and Enduring Trauma (47:24–48:04)

• Nancy asks Keith about never marrying:
  • “Never married, never had children… I never got over it. My life turned into a circus. I always kept a place for her in my heart.” (47:30, Keith)
• The episode closes with a broader call to honor all women affected by domestic violence and to continue telling these hard truths.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Nicole’s 911 calls:
  “She was just like, yeah, he's breaking into my house again. By this time, it had happened so many times and she had been beaten so many times.”
  — Nancy Grace, 00:49

• On learning about O.J.'s spying:
  “Oh, yeah. How filthy she was, how disgraced she is. I watched you. I saw everything you did.”
  — Keith Zalomzowicz, 10:29

• On abuser psychology:
  “These are classic abuse signs. Also trying to isolate the victim from sources of support.”
  — Dr. Bethany Marshall, 15:51

• On the 'Two O.J.s':
  “There's two O.J. Simpsons, Keith. There's the public one that everybody sees, and there's a private one that only I see. And you don't ever want to be left alone with the private one because you don't know what he's capable of.”
  — Keith Zalomzowicz, quoting Nicole Brown, 27:47

• On the verdict:
  “Treat it carefully, treat it fairly, be fair, don't be part of this continuing cover up… If it doesn’t fit, you must acquit.”
  — Narrator / Johnnie Cochran, 44:26–44:35

• On surviving and advocacy:
  “I wanted this to be a sort of wake up call for some women who are going through this right now as we speak… Guys like that are gonna be like that. They do not change.”
  — Keith Zalomzowicz, 34:18

• On enduring love and loss:
  “I never got over it… I always kept a place for her in my heart. And I just never could get that attached to anyone else from that point on.”
  — Keith Zalomzowicz, 47:30

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Initial Story Setup & 911 Call – 00:00–00:49
• Keith recounts spying & stalking – 02:43–05:17
• Dr. Bethany Marshall analyzes stalking – 05:47–07:33
• O.J.’s confrontation after voyeurism revealed – 09:43–12:37
• Patterns of public stalking/harassment – 19:28–22:35
• Depiction of “the two O.J.s” – 27:43–28:26
• Nicole sharing abuse stories with Keith – 25:04–26:07
• Discussion of family dynamics & financial rumors – 27:29–29:02
• Victim shame and boundary psychology – 30:00–31:07
• Call to action for abuse victims – 32:28–34:18
• O.J. trial, prosecution insight and verdict – 44:01–45:16
• Keith on aftermath and relationship impact – 47:24–48:04

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Tone & Language

Nancy Grace’s signature urgency and bluntness power the conversation, balanced with Keith’s somber, reflective storytelling and Dr. Bethany Marshall’s calm, analytical insight. The episode oscillates between raw emotion, righteous anger, and clinical explanation, giving listeners a searing, multidimensional view of this notorious but all-too-common dynamic of abuse.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode gives voice to the survivors and witnesses of intimate partner violence, forcefully connecting the O.J. Simpson saga to wider, systemic issues of stalking, abuse, and public denial. Keith Zalomzowicz’s firsthand account and Nancy Grace’s relentless examination make a compelling argument: abuse prospers in secrecy, and only by confronting even the most powerful can the cycle be broken.

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Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

This is an I heart podcast, guaranteed human crime stories with nancy grace. He says double killer O.J. simpson spied on him during his sofa sex session with O.J. simpson's wife, Nicole Brown. Well, that's just the tip of the iceberg. This guy has a brand new book and he's right when he says, that could have been me. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.

[911 Dispatcher / Caller]

I want emergency. Yes, can you send someone to my house? Well, my ex husband or my husband just broke into my house and he's ranting and raving now he's just walked out in the front yard and it is victorious. No, but he's crazy.

[Nancy Grace]

You know what always strikes me about that portion of one of Nicole Brown's many, many 911 calls is, is that she was just like, yeah, he's breaking into my house again. By this time, it had happened so many times and she had been beaten so many times. That photo that was put up in the courtroom during Simpson's murder trial of her with her face just totally beaten and bruised. I mean, how that jury. Oh, gosh, that's one of them. Look at her arm, for Pete's sake. Oh gosh, it happened over and over and over. Joining me right now, two incredible guests. First, I want to introduce to you Keith Zalomsewicz. He is Nicole Brown's former boyfriend and he is the author of a brand new book, Stalked. And I've got it right now, but I really think we should give the whole title, It's Stalked. It could have Been Me. And I think what you mean by that, Keith, is that you could have been the one lying out in the driveway that night with your head nearly severed off your body. Nicole Brown's head was attached to her body by a thin, a thin bit of, of flesh in the back of her neck. She had been almost totally decapitated. The killer had that immense strength. I wonder what he would have done with you if he had gotten a hold of you, Keith, knowing that you had been dating Nicole, actually spying on you through the window. Freak.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

Freak is right. And you're absolutely right when you say that in real time. Maybe it didn't cross my mind as much, but after I saw what he.

[Johnnie Cochran]

Was capable of in the murders, it's something I've had to live with for 30 years.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

Think that it could have been me.

[Johnnie Cochran]

In that very scenario.

[Nancy Grace]

You have shots of Nicole in life. Some of the happiest times of her life outside of being a mom were with Keith Zalomzowicz. It's not just what he's saying, it's what other people said. Of course, their relationship was marred, ruined by this.

[Narrator / Court TV Clips]

It's 3:00' clock in the morning, and Keith and Nicole made love on the couch. But they weren't alone. There was somebody watching. There was someone watching through the window. It was the defendant.

[Narrator / Crime Storyteller]

Nicole hires a babysitter to watch the children while she and Keith go out to a comedy club. Arriving home, the children are asleep. It's about 3am When Keith and Nicole become amorous on the couch. Unbeknownst to either of them, OJ Simpson is hiding in the bushes outside the house, stalking, watching the couple make love on the couch.

[Nancy Grace]

Did you have any idea that O.J. simpson was staring? He's about 3ft away from you. It sounds like a diddy threesome, watching you have sex with Nicole Brown with his children asleep upstairs. I mean, did you have any idea the extent to which he was stalking you and her?

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

We knew about the stalking because it had happened several times prior to this particular incident. But that evening we were out several places before we went home, one of which was Roxbury, where Nicole saw OJ across the dance floor and brought it to my attention immediately that he was there. And we just sort of at that point had had enough of his stalking and following us. So she looked at me and she said, what do you want to do? Let's just get out of here. So we headed back to the house, not knowing he was going to follow us. In hindsight, maybe should have had an idea that that was going to happen. But, you know, we got home and we were in the house thinking we were alone and things happened. That was the first time we made love. So it was a special. It was very special. Come to find out, you know, I.

[Nancy Grace]

Need a shrink and I need one really quickly. Dr. Bethany Marshall is joining us. Renowned psychoanalyst out of LA jurisdiction, author of Deal Breaker. You can see her now on Peacock, and you can find her at Dr.bethany marshall.com. Dr. Bethany Marshall, I'm just a trial lawyer. You're the shrink. But this, there's got to be a name for this, for what Simpson did before the double murders.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Yes. Well, obviously it's voyeurism. But, Nancy, it is stalking. Like the title of Keith's book and the Psychology of Stalking is that the perpetrator, the stalker, lives in a state of rejection all the time, even when that other person, maybe Nicole, wouldn't pick up a phone call or wouldn't spend time with him. And everything got interpreted as rejection. So he stalked her to punish her for rejecting him. He also believed that she belonged to him, like property. So I imagine when he's standing outside the window watching them have sex, take each other's clothes off, make out. I mean, I'm imagining the whole thing with his face pressed up against the mirror. Nancy, he was probably enraged and even at that point, possibly having homicidal fantasies. I'm not surprised that Keith waited so long to come out with this book, because O.J. simpson is gone now. He can't do anything from the grave. So it's a safe time to talk about it. And it's a very important message, this book. I think it's so wonderful, Keith, that you wrote it and that people can read about.

[Nancy Grace]

I don't get what you just said, Dr. Bethany, because Simpson, even during his marriage, was. Women threw themselves at him. How can you say O.J. simpson was in a state of rejection? The world loved him. He was an icon. Don't you remember those? I believe it was. Was it Avis or Hurt? I think it was Avis rental cars where he would be running through the airport and jumping over things. He's very athletic, carrying like a bag with him or something. He was a star. He was in movies, he was in commercials. Everybody loved him. What do you mean, a state of rejection?

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

But, you know, Nancy, this is what we see. Talkers. And I believe what's going on psychologically for OJ Is that he probably had sexual relationships with other women, responded to women, flirted with women, but at the same time, he was obsessed and probably preoccupied with Nicole. He only wanted her. And so we see with these guys often they're pathologically jealous. They feel betrayed all the time. Even if the girl, the woman goes out, you know, maybe having lunch with her friends or something like that, he would feel betrayed and rejected, and then to get back at her, go have sex with other women. That's a really common thing for sociopaths. And he seems to.

[Nancy Grace]

I just don't get it. I want to go back to Keith Zlamzewich, the author of a brand new book climbing the charts on Amazon Stalked. I like the rest of the title because it says so much more. It could have been me. And he's right. Because in a blind rage, Simpson not only murdered, decapitated his wife Nicole, but a completely innocent guy that had returned a pair of glasses to her home that night. You know, there he is, Ron Goleman. And what a horrific phone call had to be made to Goldman's family to tell them just out of the blue, their boy is dead. Murdered. They probably first thought, oh, it must have been a car crash. No, no. Then they find out the awful truth, guys, the stalking, just so bizarre. But that night, the first time that Keith had sex with Nicole Brown, they had been dating a while. He had no idea O.J. simpson was peeking Peeping Tom through the window just a few feet away, staring at them the whole time. I'm really surprised he didn't break down the window and come in and strangle you right then and there. When did you find out he had been spying on you that whole night?

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

The very next day, OJ Burst into us. We were in the back bedroom of one of Nicole. Of Nicole's house in one of the bedrooms. And he came bursting in right on top of us and started declaring that he had watched us the night before and he wanted to be left alone with Nicole. I wanted. I didn't want to leave her alone. I was scared for her safety. So I. I stood my ground, stood in between the two of them and refused to leave. He was getting angrier and angrier until finally Nicole realized the only way to get him out of there was to have me wait outside the bedroom door. So I did. She asked me to stay close enough so I could hear if anything happened, which I did. And then he continued to go after her and read her the riot act.

[Nancy Grace]

What was he saying to her? Let me guess. Bitch, whore, Blah, blah.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

Oh, yeah. How filthy she was, how disgraced she is. I watched you. I saw everything you did, you know, it was. It was just bad. I couldn't hear every word he was saying. But when she came out of the bedroom, when they came out together after about 10 minutes, and he tried the old shake my hand thing, you know, that wasn't. Wasn't.

[Nancy Grace]

Oh, okay, wait. He breaks in, he bursts into the bedroom where you and Nicole are still in there, I think you said still in bed. Probably woke you up and starts harassing.

[Johnnie Cochran]

Well, no.

[Nancy Grace]

What now?

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

I was giving her a. I was giving her a back massage, non sexual. And he came in through the back door, which also told us that he knew exactly where we at. We were at in the house. He didn't try to come through the front door. He didn't come through the screen door in the back. He came right through the bedroom French doors that we were in. So he knew where we were at in the house. And he came right through. Stood right in my face as I'm looking up from sitting On Nicole's back. I was obviously mortified. I didn't know what to do. I got up slowly and then he started in on both of us and wanted to be left alone with Nicole. So he repeatedly said, I want to talk to you alone. I want to talk to you alone. And I said, I'm not going to leave you alone with her. I don't trust you. Until eventually Nicole convinced me to go outside. I stood outside in the kitchen, close enough that I could hear if something was going to go down, but I couldn't hear every word they were saying. Five, ten minutes later, when they came out of the room together, he approached me in the kitchen and gave me this half hearted, sort of shook my hand. I'm a proud man, was his statement. I didn't reply. I just sort of stuck my hand out. And then he disappeared.

[Nancy Grace]

Wait a minute. He's a proud man. A proud man that, what, hunkered down behind a bush the whole night to see what you were doing with the wife that had broken up with him over the beatings. That proud man. Can you just see him squatted down behind the bushes, probably as high as a kite.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

And we know, it's my opinion that he tried to enter the house that night, whether through the front door or whether through the back door. But I'm convinced 100% that he didn't just watch us through the window and walk away and go home. I'm convinced he tried to get into the house. We didn't hear him. We had some music on and we were involved, obviously, but, you know, to find out the next day how personal that was. And when Nicole came out of the bedroom behind him and he shook my hand and left, she was mortified. You could see it. She was white as a ghost. And she just looked me in the eye and said, he watched us. Oh, my God. He watched everything we did last night. And then we just looked at each other and went, oh, my God. What's. What's safe? We didn't know what was.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, you do know he probably camped outside her house the entire night. There's no way Simpson goes home and comes back. No, no, no. And this is while the children were home asleep upstairs?

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

Yes, correct. And the eerie part of that whole thing is, Nancy, and it goes back to the title of the book, is you have to draw a direct correlation between that evening and the evening of the murders on June 12 and 94, because the geography is so eerily similar. And you read about it in the book where I describe how I left about maybe 4, 4:30 in the morning, because I would never stay the night at Nicole's house because we were leery of the children waking up and finding another man in the house. It was just how we thought about it. So I left very early in the morning, and it was dead silent in Brentwood. I just remember that it was spooky silent as I walked out of the house to my car, which was parked on the street, so I was accessible. So I know he wasn't there. Then he must have gone home at some point. But if you look at the geography of how there's a long courtyard and a gate and another sidewalk that leads to the living room window, it's exactly what he did on June 12. He came through a gate, down a long sidewalk, around a corner, through her front window, where she had to come out the front door, where he eventually murdered her and Ron. So there's a direct correlation, if you look at it and I write about it, to both those evenings. And that's what sparked in my mind the whole it could have been me part of it, because I felt like had he still been there that night, it would have been me. Or if he could have gotten into the house that evening through an unlocked door, which none of them were, that it could have happened right there in the living room. So I've had nightmares about that for the last 30 years.

[Johnnie Cochran]

And something that was an overbearing sort of.

[Nancy Grace]

Dr. Bethany Marshall, what does that mean? I mean, it's one thing to have an argument with your ex. I would expect that, especially when you've got children together. But to call your ex a whore, a bitch, and everything else that he called her, told her he was trash and filthy and dirty and had shamed him, really, with the children, you know, they could hear him. He was screaming like a crazy man.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Nancy is part of the pattern of abuse, right? Devalue the woman, shame her for her sexuality, humiliate her, embarrass her, try to take down her credibility in front of the children. These are classic abuse signs. Also trying to isolate the victim from sources of support. So here she starts dating Keith. They're having this romantic evening. He bursts to the bedroom because what he's trying to do is assert dominance over Nicole and over Keith. And he thinks that by separating them, he's going to be able to separate them permanently. Now, that really odd thing where he says, I'm a proud man, he turns reality on its head. He's actually humiliating himself as well as her. And then when he shakes Hands with Keith. That's, I think, another dominance moves. He thinks that he's. He's been successful in separating the two, getting them into different rooms, shakes hands and leaves. And I think he feels like he. He got his way, like he won.

[Nancy Grace]

What do you mean he won.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

That? He won that. He has now taken Nicole apart, psychologically, abused her, beat her down emotionally, and now she will come back and depend on him instead of continuing to date Keith. He probably thought that he.

[Nancy Grace]

So basically, he's like a dog that comes in and titees on everything that he thinks is his.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Exactly. That's exactly what he did. That's how he asserted the dominant. He lifted his leg and then he was happy and he left, you know, because her house was his territory. Nancy I used to live in Brentwood between Nicole was just to the south of me, and OJ Simpson on Rockingham was just to the north. So I know that area very, very well. It is super quiet at 4 in the morning. Brentwood is such kind of like a sleepy community, but it's a very wealthy enclave. So her house, where it was located, it was almost like walking distance between the house and Mezzaluna where Rob. Where Ron Goldman worked. And so it was a. It was a place where there was a lot of visibility. She and I went to the same hair salon and the same. And the girls in there would talk about the fact that she would come in with bruises on her face and on her arms. She lived her life being stalked and being beaten. That was just her life.

[Nancy Grace]

It's very disturbing. And even though I prosecuted, by the time I got domestic violence cases, as they are called, euphemistically, somebody was dead or had had an aggravated assault or aggravated battery, like lost an eye, lost use of an arm, lost use of a limb. But when I worked at the Battered Women's center as a volunteer at night, that was for nine years. And to hear these women, because, again, by the time I usually got their cases, they were dead. And I never got to speak to them, but as working the hotline, I did speak to them, and they would be just totally numb. It would be just a way of life for them, you know, that is curious. Back to you, Keith Zalomzowicz, new book, Stalked. It could have been me. It's interesting the way you described, and I didn't want to interrupt you when you first said it, that you guys were at the Roxbury and you're having a great time, everybody's dancing. You look over there, Simpson. Oh, what a coinky. Dink, there he is. Probably been following you the whole night. And she was like, there he is. See, I would have been shocked. Like, why is he here? What?

[Johnnie Cochran]

What?

[Nancy Grace]

But she. It was just typical another day in Brentwood for her. There's OJ Stalking her again. Simpson, Orenthal James Simpson turning up again, wherever she was. It was just routine for her at that point. She was numb to it. I mean, by the way you described it, she wasn't shocked or afraid. There he is. Like a bad penny.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

And we were getting used to it, to be honest with you, because this was the third or fourth time that.

[Johnnie Cochran]

He approached us in public.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

And they had had an agreement supposedly that if they both showed up at the same place, the first one there was allowed to stay.

[Johnnie Cochran]

The second one there, if they saw the other person would leave. He never abided by that, obviously, but he knew where we were going because the times that he would show up would be just too uncanny. So we knew that we were either being followed or we being ratted out by someone as to where our destination would be. So he knew exactly where to go, where to find us. And that includes that night we had gone to a comedy show first before we went to Roxbury to go dancing. We get into Roxbury and there he is. We leave Roxbury and what's he do? Follows us home. So there was a pattern.

[Nancy Grace]

I mean, they even had an agreement in place. Hey, when we both show up at the same place at the same time, the one who got there first gets to stay. So obviously this had happened so many times, they had to come up with some type of an agreement, a truce of sorts. Crime stories with nancy grace. Another thing that you just mentioned that you think other people could have been ratting you out. I started to say, hold on, Salami, wait a minute. Don't make this a big conspiracy that didn't happen. But you know, when it comes to Simpson, he had so many followers and so many hangers on and so many friends, it's entirely possible that they would call me. Hey, your wife's here. Although they were completely separated at that point. Guys, it didn't end there. Listen.

[Narrator / Crime Storyteller]

Keith meets Nicole. Aspen, Colorado. Zlumsowicz is director of operations for Metzaluna restaurant chains, California locations and Aspen. Keith returns to Los Angeles and he and Nicole begin dating. Keith and Nicole constantly under attack as Simpson stalks and harasses the couple during a dinner out at Metzaluna in Brentwood. Keith and Nicole mortified to see Simpson pull up in front of the restaurant.

[Narrator / Court TV Clips]

Nicole was there, Keith was there. The defendant suddenly showed up, drove up in front of the restaurant, got out of the car, walked up to the table where they were seated, put his hands on and said, I'm O.J. simpson, and she's still my wife. Well, she filed for divorce and moved out of his house. That was intimidating.

[911 Dispatcher / Caller]

Nine one emergency. We have someone over here now to 325 Gretna Green. He's back.

[Nancy Grace]

He's O.J.

[911 Dispatcher / Caller]

Simpson. I think you know his record. Did you just bring somebody over here? He's going to drove us in here. Wait a minute. What kind of car is he in? He's in a white Bronco. But first of all, put that door down to get in.

[Nancy Grace]

The 911 calls. Escalate, escalate, escalate. Nothing was ever done. And now she's dead. Joining us tonight, a man that truly loved her and that she loved in return, Keith Zalomzowicz. New book, Stopped it could have been Me. And he's totally right. I want to look very quickly at what we were just viewing, and that's Darden's argument to the jury, because I want to watch Simpson. This is Darden describing another incident where Simpson shows up where Nicole and Keith are. Let's watch.

[Narrator / Court TV Clips]

At the Mezzaloon. Nicole was there, Keith was there. The defendant suddenly showed up, drove up in front of the restaurant, got out of the car, walked up to the table where they were seated, put his hands on and said, I'm O.J. simpson, and she's still my wife. Well, she filed for divorce and moved out of his house.

[Nancy Grace]

That's what I wanted to say. That's what I want to see. When Darden says she filed for divorce and moved out of the house, he's like, did you see that? I mean, and another thing I've noticed when I was watching him during the trial. And Keith, you were called as a witness for both the state and the defense, which I'm going to get into. But I noticed every time it got sticky for Simpson, he would, like, suddenly start writing notes. I would have loved to see those notes. I did it. Come and get me. But he would look away from the jury, start writing notes. So I would always know when I was watching the trial at the time that whatever was happening that would make Simpsons act like he was taking legal notes was something that was damaging to the defense. I want to move forward. Guys, listen to this.

[Narrator / Crime Storyteller]

After the incident at Metzaluna, when Keith refuses to back down to Simpson, Nicole opens up and shares her life of abuse with Simpson. As the couple continues to date, Simpson stalks Keith and Nicole wherever they go, showing up at every restaurant and nightclub, hiding in bushes and watching through windows, making it impossible for Nicole to have a romantic relationship with Keith.

[Nancy Grace]

Keith Zalomzowich, author of a brand new book, Stalked. It could have been Me. Keith, when did she first tell you that Simpson had been beating her for years?

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

Very early on, actually, when I got to Los Angeles and we started the dating thing, we became. And as these incidents of stalking started to present themselves, we were living it in real time. So we had this sort of bond. She, she understood I was going through the same thing she had gone through in the past. So she started to tell me about certain incidents between them. Beatings, you know, control, all his possessiveness, personal stuff that I think she felt at that time because we had a, a bond from what we were going through together. So she opened up about everything. And I think she opened up more to me than she did to a lot of people, maybe even some of her family. You know, she wasn't very proud of, of some of the stuff that had happened to her in the past.

[Johnnie Cochran]

So some of the stuff she kept.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

Kept inside she shared with me because we were living it in real time. She also was visiting a psychologist at the time. We used to almost laugh about it because the psychologist gave her a book entitled Something to the Effect Women who Love Men who Hate Them. And I remember she used to have that book at the house and she'd.

[Johnnie Cochran]

Read from it and talk to me about it a little bit. And she, she was trying to figure out what it was that kept her with him all those years at the.

[Nancy Grace]

Hands of his wife, Stated that Nicole Brown was not proud of things that had happened to her. Like what?

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

Like beatings. I describe some of them in the book. There are times when they'd be on a trip together, a business trip, and he'd leave the room and he'd come back and she'd know that he was with another woman and she would confront him and she'd be beaten and locked in a closet. That happened more than once.

[Johnnie Cochran]

And she told me about those incidents. So obviously she wasn't very proud that she was still around after some of those incidents. But it was her family, it was the children. It was the thought of having that family unit together that kept her around all those years and ultimately led to the reconciliation, the failed reconciliation that cost her her life.

[Nancy Grace]

That leads me to another case.

[Johnnie Cochran]

She got back with OJ which did.

[Nancy Grace]

Her family encourage her to stay With Simpson?

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

No, I don't believe that. I know that they liked O.J.

[Johnnie Cochran]

Initially.

[Nancy Grace]

O.J.

[Johnnie Cochran]

Was very charming.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

There were two OJs, and this is something she told me directly.

[Johnnie Cochran]

There's two O.J. simpsons, Keith. There's the public one that everybody sees, and there's a private one that only I see.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

And you don't ever want to be.

[Johnnie Cochran]

Left alone with the private one because you don't know what he's capable of. I mean, we had that conversation. So I think the family thought O.J. was a nicer guy than he really was. I mean, they were aware a few incidents. Obviously, Denise testified to several domestic violence incidents that Nicole told her about. But I can't get in the middle of the family dynamic and tell you exactly what they were thinking. But I know Denise, you know, was witness to from Nicole telling her several incidents.

[Nancy Grace]

Did they take money from Simpson, her family?

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

I don't know that they took money. I know that it's widely reported that they helped Nicole's father with, I believe it was a Hertz rent a car franchise that, you know, he ultimately made some money. What from? So I think that happened. I never heard anything like he, you.

[Johnnie Cochran]

Know, provided them with cash for a house or anything like that. And I don't think that was the case. I mean, Lou and Judy were salt of the earth people. They meant well.

[Nancy Grace]

Yeah. You know what?

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

I think they stood for the daughter.

[Nancy Grace]

I think that people make those claims against her family to somehow. I mean, it's. I see it all the time somehow. Blame the victims. It's their fault. They were leeches, they took money, they encouraged it, and he lost his temper and killed her. It's just total crap. Dr. Bethany Marshall, this brings up another issue. If you could touch on it very quickly. Why is it the woman feels ashamed of what quote happened to her? It's like, oh, I tripped. That happened to me. No, it didn't happen to her. Someone physically assaulted her, beat her to a pulp, and would lock her in the closet, which is a new twist. That's something I didn't know would lock her in a closet. Now, look again, I'm just a trial lawyer, but that means something to lock somebody in a closet.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Well, he again, he wanted total control and dominance over her. So to lock her in a closet is to have her all for himself and also to terrify her and discourage her from interacting with other people. Nancy, this self blame that victims do. I think of it as a crisis of boundaries, meaning the victim knows that something severely wrong with the perpetrator the perpetrator is dysregulated, obsessed, self preoccupied. Relating to the victim through power instead of love and affection. But the victim feels that it's her job to fix it. And if she can't fix it, then she has failed in some way. In some ways these men pull the women in kind of a mothering role. That becomes the woman's job to keep the man's world safe and predictable, to make him okay. So when she can't do it, when that task breaks down, she then falls into self blame. Also. There's so much humiliation going on, Nancy. This. It's almost like a form of brainwashing where she begins to feel that she's a failure in some way.

[Nancy Grace]

You did hear what she said to Keith. That there were two OJs. The one everybody sees in public and the one that she sees in private. I have seen that in court. Of course, by the time I get it, it's a domestic homicide. But no one would ever think this guy was the devil. The devil. When he's alone with the woman at home, he's so charming and charismatic. Some people even think attractive physically. It could not be more of a dichotomy.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

You know, Nancy, I thought of sociopathy, right, the personality disorder of being a sociopath, when Keith was talking about this. Because one of the criteria is that the sociopath has a thin veneer of affability. They're charming, they're outgoing because of how people really tend to like them. But the minute they get their feelings hurt or they feel diminished, minimized in some way, that veneer cracks. And what you see underneath is a very cold, calculated interior. So he was calculating, probably for a long, long time, how he was going to put a stop to all of this. And we know eventually how he did.

[Nancy Grace]

What we're doing tonight, right? I'm not only talking about your new book, Stalked, but I'm trying to tell, and I want you to help me tell it along with Bethany to other women. They think nobody's going to believe me. This is somehow my fault. I screwed up. I don't want my family to know. I'm going to wear a high neck and long sleeves and long pants. I don't want anybody to see the bruises. I don't want my children to know. I don't want to mess up, mess up my family. I don't want to do that. It's all technical, legal term crap, bs. They will be beaten. It statistically will not get better. It won't. It will get worse. I don't like being the harbinger of doom. But I know what the statistics tell me. And the woman will live through it for the rest of her life if she stays. And even worse, the children will see it, hear it, mommy's a whore, Mommy's a bitch. And they will grow up numb to that and think it's okay. The girl growing up will end up with a man that beats her statistically. And the boy growing up, he starts off like a little angel, will grow up to beat someone statistically. This is true. You got to tell this story, Keith. Do you hear me?

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

Do hear you. And that's part of the reason I wrote the book. Over the years, certainly since the advent of social media, I've been reached out to by numerous women around the country and some overseas that followed the story, followed Nicole and my plight, and appreciated.

[Johnnie Cochran]

What I did to try to defend her and pick up for her. Made a lot of. I've helped a lot of women out.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

Of circumstances where they've come to me.

[Johnnie Cochran]

And said, you know, you gave me the strength to get out of this relationship when I didn't think I had that. And I'm still friends with some of them to this day. So I wanted this to be a sort of wake up call for some women who are going through this right now as we speak, who may be watching this to know that it doesn't change. Guys like that are gonna be like that. They do not change. When. When O.J. tried his reconciliation with Nicole 15 months after I had met her and we had been so close during that time, he took her away to Mexico. She was at her. At her parents house for Easter weekend, I believe it was, and he knew she would be there. So he showed up unannounced, uninvited, and tried to convince her he had been to therapy, he had changed, he was a new man. And he swept her away to Mexico to spend some time together to try to get her back. She fell into it. And, you know, sadly, all Nick really wanted was her family. She wanted that family unit together. And we talked about this many times.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

And she fell back into his trap of, I've changed.

[Johnnie Cochran]

Let me show you how good I can be. And she called me and we had long talks about it, and she decided she was going to give it a try. And that's when our incredible friendship that we had developed came to an end because he never got over me. And then fast forward to October that year when the 911 tape occurs. Something else you have to remember is he did all this in front of the children. He belittled Nicole over the year and a half about making love to me with the children in the house. That was his big thing. Look what you did. The kids are here. Look what you did. You're trash, you're dirty, you're filthy. All the things he said and did to make her feel that way, but look at the facts. He kicked in the door and threatened to be her when the children were there. He killed her. And Ron Goldman, when the children were there and the door was open and they were sleeping right upstairs. And if they hadn't found those bodies, the children would have woken up. Tommy was. And you're so right.

[Nancy Grace]

And women out there are looking at Nicole Brown, you know, before she was murdered by Simpson, thinking, oh, she's so beautiful. She's so glamorous, she's so perfect. She's got this perfect life, this beautiful home, gorgeous home, children, Simpson. And they think, you know, why can't I have a life like that? And the reality is abuse. And that seems to be sugarcoating it. I mean, downright beatings, breaking arms, noses, blood gushing out of your mouth, losing teeth. That's the reality. And if it could happen to someone like Nicole Brown, it can happen to anybody. Speaking of the other O.J. simpson, take a listen.

[911 Dispatcher / Caller]

Can you give someone over here now to 325 Gretna Green? He's back.

[Johnnie Cochran]

Please.

[911 Dispatcher / Caller]

Okay, what does he look like?

[Nancy Grace]

O.J.

[911 Dispatcher / Caller]

Simpson? I think you know his record over here. Hey, what is he doing there? He's got 12, I figure. Wait a minute. What kind of car is he in? He's in a white Bronco. But first of all, he broke the back door down to get in. Wait a minute. What's your name? Nicole Simpson. Okay, is he the sportscaster or whatever? Yeah. Okay, wait a minute. What's the police. What is he doing? Is he threatening you?

[Nancy Grace]

There's Mr. Simpson kissing Denise Brown kissing Ms. Juditha Brown.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

It's Mr. Lewis Brown.

[Nancy Grace]

Talking to a friend.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

That's his son Justin, when he kisses.

[Narrator / Crime Storyteller]

After Sydney's dance recital, Nicole. The children and her family leave Simpson behind at the school and go to dinner with friends at Metzaluna in Brentwood, Nicole's mother accidentally leaves her glasses behind. And Ron Goldman, a friend of Nicole who works at the restaurant, volunteers to drop the glasses off at Nicole's house. Goldman leaves Mezzaluna at 9:45pm not invited.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

To family dinner at Mezzaluna, Simpson grabs McDonald's with his house guest, Kaylin Kato. The pair Return to Simpson's home around 9:40pm Around 10:40pm Kaylin hears several thumps outside his room and goes to investigate, but gets distracted by the limo waiting outside Simpson's gate. Hired to take him to the airport.

[Nancy Grace]

Closing arguments by my former co anchor Johnnie Cochran is from our friends at Court tv. And you know what they're doing right there. Keith Islamic, author of a brand new book, stalked Cochran. Brilliant, great trial lawyer. You'd have a jury eating out of his hand. He's portraying Simpson as being charming and in with the family that Simpson kissed Denise. He kissed Juditha. He kissed Mr. Brown, picks up his son Justin, his son with Nicole, and kisses him. Oh, what a great family guy. They all love him. I know exactly what Johnny Cochran, God rest his soul, is doing. This guy would never look at him. The whole family loves him. He wasn't beating Nicole. B.S. yes, he was. That's from Court TV, Keith. That's what Cochran is doing right there. He's. He's a puppet master.

[Johnnie Cochran]

Absolutely.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

But that goes back to what I was saying earlier. There's two O.J.

[Johnnie Cochran]

Simpson, he's in public there.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

He's around the kids, he's around the family. So you're going to see that O.J. simpson. You're not going to see the private one.

[Johnnie Cochran]

That was one who beat Nicole and the one who stalked us and followed us and made our life impossible to be together and miserable. So it just goes right into what I was saying about the two sides of our Jason.

[Nancy Grace]

All of this is happening the night Nicole and Ron are murdered. There was the piano recital. Then the family goes to Mezzaluna after he's not invited. And his rage begins to build. And this is where it ends. Listen.

[Narrator / Crime Storyteller]

A neighbor sees Nicole's white Akita Kato wandering the neighborhood alone, barking, agitated. And on closer inspection, they notice he has bloody paws.

[Nancy Grace]

Crime stories with nancy grace.

[Narrator / Crime Storyteller]

A neighbor sees Nicole's white Akita Kato wandering the neighborhood alone, barking, agitated. And on closer inspection, they notice he has bloody paws. And the neighbor follows Cato to investigate, discovering Nicole and ron's bodies at 12:10am.

[Nancy Grace]

Wandering the neighborhood covered in blood, Nicole's blood, her head practically cut off. Her body in the front yard. But no one believes Simpson could have done it. We know he hides in the bushes and stalks her home. He sees Ron Goldman and thinks, oh, there are the horrors with another man. I'm sure that's what he was thinking. Nothing could have been further from the truth. So LAPD heads to Simpson's home.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Detectives Fuhrman And Fanatter go to Simpson's nearby home to notify him of his wife's death. Fuhrman sees what appears to be bloodstains on Simpson's Ford Bronco and decides to jump the fence to gain access to Simpson's property. Fannatter declares Simpson's home a crime scene and goes to secure a search warrant for the house around 7am Simpson.

[Narrator / Crime Storyteller]

Simpson leaves home at 11:10pm to catch an 11:45 flight to Chicago. Lands 5:30am checking into the O' Hare Plaza Hotel at 6:15. 7am Detectives inform Simpson of the murders over the phone and ask him to return to LA. Simpson flies back June 13 and is handcuffed on arrival. Simpson is questioned for hours and investigators photograph a cut on his finger.

[Nancy Grace]

His Bronco cut on his hand. How did this guy walk free? And then there's the infamous slow speed chase where Simpson basically holds himself hostage. Remember that because I'll Never forget it.

[911 Dispatcher / Caller]

Nine one one, what are you reporting? This is A.C. i have O.J. in the car. Okay, where are you please? I'm coming up the 5 Freeway. Okay, right now we all. We. Okay, but you gotta tell the police just to back off. He's still alive. That he got a gun to his head. Okay, hold on a minute, Monica. He just want to see his mother. Let me get this to the house. Okay, hold on a moment. Is everything else okay? Everything right now is okay, officer. Everything is okay.

[Johnnie Cochran]

All out.

[911 Dispatcher / Caller]

He wants to get me to get it to his mom. He wants me to get it to his house. Okay, so that's all I. That's all we ask. He got a gun.

[Johnnie Cochran]

Okay.

[911 Dispatcher / Caller]

What. What's your name? My name is A.C. you know who I am? God. Okay. All right.

[Nancy Grace]

I cannot believe the arrogance these two. You know who I am? What? No. The dispatcher does not know who you are. Cowlings from your first two initials. And he says he's going to his mother's. This guy murdered two people. Why is he even out walking around on bond much? That's holding himself hostage. No anybody else they would have police would have overtaken, gotten them out of that car and put them face down on the ground. But no, not Simpson. And it all culminates in this.

[911 Dispatcher / Caller]

Matter of people versus Orenthal James Simpson.

[Johnnie Cochran]

How do you plead to counts one and two? Absolutely 100 years. This is O.J. simpson's One Day in court by your.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

Decision to control his very life in your hands.

[Johnnie Cochran]

Treat it carefully, treat it fairly, be.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

Fair, don't be part of this continuing cover up.

[Narrator / Court TV Clips]

Do the Right thing. Remembering that if it doesn't fit, you must acquit.

[Nancy Grace]

In the matter of the People of the State of California v. Orenthal James simpson, case number BA097 211, we the jury, in the above and title action, find the defendant Orenthal James Simpson not guilty of the crime of murder in.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Violation of penal code section 187A, a.

[Nancy Grace]

Felony, upon Nicole Brown Simpson. Our friends at Court tv. Were you surprised at the verdict, Keith?

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

Yes and no.

[Johnnie Cochran]

I was concerned that the jury was going to buy into Johnnie Cochran's bull, for the lack of a better word.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

But I wasn't overly surprised by that.

[Nancy Grace]

You were actually a pallbearer. You. You carried Nicole's coffin. What was going through your mind? You knew he murdered her.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

This is almost a surreal out of body experience.

[Johnnie Cochran]

You got to remember the murders took place on a Sunday night.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

Monday morning.

[Johnnie Cochran]

The funeral was on a Thursday. It was so lightning speed. I flew out there immediately. The family asked me if I'd be a pallbearer. I didn't see them because I flew into Los Angeles the night before. So the first interaction I had face to face with the Brown family was as holding the casket at the funeral.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

And that's when one of the sisters.

[Johnnie Cochran]

Came up to me and said, do.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

You realize what we were talking about that night? And I said, no, I don't.

[Johnnie Cochran]

She said, you. She was talking about surprise and Aspen.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

So imagine my heartbreak.

[Johnnie Cochran]

I hadn't spoken to Nicole for six months or so since that infamous 911 call where we weren't allowed to speak anymore because of OJ still loving her, still thinking about her every day. She's dead. She's gone. I'm holding her casket. I'm standing two feet away from the guy I know in my heart and mine murdered her. And I'm told that she was thinking about me the night she was murdered. I was. I can't even tell you the emotions that went through me at that point. So it was crazy. And then as we went down to the burial site, I actually had to stand next to OJ Simpson almost elbow to elbow for an hour or whatever time it took to read the rites of passage and everything that took place down there, knowing what had happened and having to stand next to him. So just imagine my emotions during that whole thing. It was. It's hard to describe. I try to do that in the book. I do my best job of trying to walk the reader through exactly what I was feeling and my emotions, but it was crazy.

[Nancy Grace]

Keith you never married after all these years?

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

Never married, never had children.

[Johnnie Cochran]

I don't know if that's strictly because of my relationship with Nicole, but I never got over it. My life turned into a circus. Obviously, with what was going on, it took me years to get over that. And I always kept a place for her in my heart. And I just never could get that attached to anyone else from that point on. So I'm pushing 65 now. I'm still single, and I have a lot of great memories. But this tragic event shaped my life, my entire adult life.

[Nancy Grace]

Believe it or not, I know exactly how you feel.

[Johnnie Cochran]

I know you do.

[Keith Zalomzowicz]

Nick.

[Nancy Grace]

This book is amazing. I'm so honored that you joined us. Keith, this book stalked. It could have been me. And there's just so much more to say beyond what we've talked about tonight. Even beyond what's in your book. Just. I'm very grateful for you shining a light on this plague in our world. Women being abused so horribly and ending up dead and their children destined to repeat the pattern. Stopped. It could have been me. Tonight we remember all the women who preceded and followed Nicole Brown, victims to domestic violence. Not just them, but their children, victims as well. And we honor the women that find the strength to speak out. They are all our American heroes. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart podcast.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Guaranteed Human.