← Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
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- [00:00]
Nancy Grace
This is an i heart podcast.
- [00:05]
Joe Scott Morgan
It.
- [00:06]
Elena Shirazi
Starts like any other night the glass of red the cozy blanket then the drop the stain so dark so stubborn it might as well have been a crime scene but this isn't your average couch this is anna bay fully washable unspeakably comfortable and ready for whatever your life your kids or your ex throws at it and here's the kicker starting at just six dollars ninety nine cents you can make sure your sofa isn't part of the problem fully washable stain resistant and built to hide even the darkest defenses right now get up to sixty percent off because no one should have to live with a stain that won't quit annabe the only mystery you won't be losing sleepover shop washablesofas dot com today that's washablesofas dot com.
- [01:05]
Nancy Grace
Now streaming on paramount plus hunted by hackers stopped by assassins and wanted by international police tony and ziva are on the run and getting some action car chases surprise weddings killer drones undercover ops robot dogs daring heists prison breaks nothing will keep this couple from taking down an international conspiracy and clearing their names good thing espionage is their love language get ready for the ultimate romantic escape with the premiere of nci is tony and ziva now streaming on paramount plus hello.
- [01:39]
Elena Shirazi
Divorce yes this is a divorce ad about hellodivorce dot com and you might be asking why you're hearing it even if you're happily married or single chances are someone close to you might be thinking about or going through divorce help them skip expensive lawyers and unnecessary stress tell them to visit hellodivorce dot com for clarity savings and peace of mind because sometimes being a good friend means sharing the right resources and hellodivorce dot com support your friends can trust crime.
- [02:10]
Nancy Grace
Stories with nancy grace did he have help the charlie kirk shooting suspects friends and furries tonight under the microscope i'm nancy grace this is crime stories i want to thank you for being with us i heard the gunshot go off.
- [02:33]
Elena Shirazi
And that was when i started hearing a bunch of people crying and screaming to get down i was terrified he.
- [02:44]
Nancy Grace
Thought it out he planned it out that much that he knew he had to change clothes to blend in and.
- [02:51]
Joe Scott Morgan
It hit him in the carotid artery and that caused a bleed out almost immediately.
- [03:00]
Nancy Grace
As the defendant robinson is facing formal charges in utah county court interesting not federal charges state charges but the death penalty is the death penalty is the death penalty whether it's state firing squad or the federal electric chair that said facing formal charges as predicted that essentially mirror the charges under which he was arrested that specifically being the murder of charlie kirk a thirty one year old husband and father of two for what motive political hatred ideology differences really at this hour as we go to air the defendant's friends and furries under a microscope did they know what what was happening what are they clairvoyant they predicted it online how did they do that without knowledge did they actually help him affect the murder that and so much more we are learning specifically who got rid of the note listen the.
- [04:16]
Joe Scott Morgan
Suspect wrote a note saying i have the opportunity to take out charlie kirk and i'm going to take it that note was written before the shooting that.
- [04:23]
Elena Shirazi
The note even though it has been.
- [04:24]
Joe Scott Morgan
Destroyed we have found forensic evidence of the note and we have confirmed what that note says because of our aggressive interview posture at the fbi robinson communicated.
- [04:36]
Elena Shirazi
He had an opportunity to take out charlie kirk and he was going to do it robinson reportedly texted the message and left a note in his saint george apartment the note was destroyed but investigators discovered its contents through an interview the fbi is now investigating if anyone refused to intervene or even helped him.
- [04:56]
Nancy Grace
Commit the murder that sound of fbi director keshe patel from our friends at fox a lot of people are piling on patel right now could we focus on the killer i will get to patel in a moment but right now it's all about the evidence as formal charges being handed down against robinson what note how did it get destroyed what did it say and why would someone destroy it if robinson himself did not destroy it who did sounds like a co defendant to me straight out to senior political reporter daily mail aleena shirazi alina thank you for being with us.
- [05:37]
Elena Shirazi
What note yeah so you just heard fbi director kash patel on fox news on monday say that robinson wrote that note reportedly saying quote i have the opportunity to take out charlie kirk and i'm going to do it kash patel also said that the suspect wrote this note before the shooting there was evidence that it existed it was in their home that he lived with with his romantic partner but even though patel says it was destroyed which there are questions as you brought up nancy how was it destroyed who destroyed it because that is obviously crucial evidence they've still found forensic evidence of the note and they've confirmed what the note said of aggressive interviews at the fbi elena shirazi you.
- [06:25]
Nancy Grace
Are absolutely correct but i don't like the way that that just tripped off your tongue i want to get every single word you said all the points you were making because to me every one of the points that you so quickly recounted is a point of evidence you know to you joseph scott morgan joining me i want to follow up on everything that alina shirazi just said joe scott morgan professor of forensics jacksonville state university head of an incredible program there author of blood beneath my feet on amazon star of a new hit series podcast body bags with jo scott morgan that said he is a death investigator and forensics expert that has handled literally thousands of cases joe scott why didn't the guy just take out an ad on third avenue i did it i mean to leave a written note now that's something i would argue in closing arguments but can we talk about the fact that the fbi director said it was destroyed but that their investigation led to its contents i smell a co defendant who destroyed that note and how did they recreate that note yeah.
- [07:50]
Joe Scott Morgan
Good question i'm wondering if they if this is a physical note like a handwritten note i'm wondering if they have found partials of this note that they could have reassembled in some way and we don't know what destroyed means does that mean that it's torn up does that mean that it was burned all of these factors are going to play into it also is there a chance that there could have been some kind of digital remnant i have no idea.
- [08:14]
Nancy Grace
Hey joe scott let's look at each three of those alternatives because we know that they have been able to recreate it so if it was torn up simple some idiot i'm just going out on a limb here and hypothesizing it was either him or his roommate that tore up the note yes that said it could have been somebody else that happened to be in their apartment that tore up the note if all it was was torn up we could put that right back together again no problem if it were burned different thing that can be recreated too and it's really not that hard you've been on plenty of arson scenes as have i when something is burned very often unless the ashes have been scattered you can still read what's on the ashes that is.
- [09:04]
Joe Scott Morgan
A fact yeah and we have to understand that the the evidence response team from the fbi that by the way is very good was on top of everything here working hand in hand with state police they would have been very careful at all of these scenes remember nancy i think that people get lost in the sauce here thinking that there's only one crime scene nancy you've got multiple scenes here with not just the shooting site but also the homes that are involved the vehicles that are involved there's all kinds of secondary and tertiary scenes involved in this so this would have been an all hands on deck they would have treated this note let's just say it was in an incinerated status they would have treated it as if it's a fragile document from the distant past one other thing i was thinking about if this was written on a notepad perhaps and they used a tremendous amount of pressure when writing which a lot of people do if you find that pad you can reconstruct it based upon the impressions left on the underlying paper still remaining yeah smart smart.
- [10:06]
Nancy Grace
Joe scott and of course here's the other alternative joe scott not to beat a dead horse but digitally they said it was a note they did not say it was a text or an email but if there's some digital proof of that note such as hey get rid of the note i left on my desk there you go there you go proof of the note you know let me go out to veteran trial lawyer franz borghardt criminal defense attorney former prosecutor adjunct louisiana state universityorghardlawfirm dot com franz thank you for being with us what if i call you on the phone and go hey hey hey i left a note i think it's on my desk under my laptop could you destroy it right now okay and you destroy it what can i charge you with after the murder takes place so.
- [11:10]
Joe Scott Morgan
I'Ve now entered the realm of obstruction of justice possibly aiding and abetting in federal court nancy it's a different crime but it's all in that family of accomplice while you may not be able to be charged with murder you're certainly looking at serious charges on what might be one of the most serious public murders in quite some time so you are in a heap of trouble in.
- [11:37]
Nancy Grace
Your jurisdiction for obstruction of justice what's the sentence it could be five to.
- [11:42]
Joe Scott Morgan
Twenty for obstruction there's different flavors of obstruction there's like a lesser one but five to twenty and you better believe nancy they're going to be going for.
- [11:52]
Nancy Grace
The twenty you know what i predict franz borgart i predict the furries and friends are going to talk they're going to talk rather than do twenty twenty hard on obstruction and a lot has been made about the roommate maybe being transgender and transitioning and his friends are furries don't care i don't care who they are what they believe what their sex preference is i don't care what color they are what religion or no religion they are all i care about is did they have a hand in charlie kirk's brutal and public murder that's all i care about guys there's more more evidence pouring out let's take a listen to the friends especially the friends on that discord chat room being under the microscope right now listen did they.
- [12:52]
Joe Scott Morgan
Say it hear it and think it was some kind of a joke that's what we're trying to find out now but i promise you if there's a larger network here we're going to get that out to the public as soon as we can did they know were they sure of this or did they hear this and just write it off that's what we're going to have to find out and that's what we're investigating.
- [13:11]
Nancy Grace
Now from our friends at fox trade to cindy sumner joining us in addition to elina shirazi with daily mail sidney sumner crime stories investigative reporter what were the friends clairvoyant because didn't they post several of them something big is going to happen on september eleventh some of them even naming the place it'd be funny if someone like charlie kirk got shot on september tenth laughing my ass off really you know what when you're hauled in for questioning mushy i don't think you're going to be laughing your ass off then and there's more what about it sidney sumner oh here's another one september tenth will be a very interesting day i plead the fifth really why do you plead the fifth if you haven't done anything wrong and there's so much more to say that's on august sixth august sixth they're predicting something on the tenth and then we effing did it oh you guys have something big coming soon just be sure you check the news you'll know it when you see it who are these people sidney sumner right apparently these are all.
- [14:35]
Elena Shirazi
People that are being investigated as part of robinson's network that may have known.
- [14:41]
Nancy Grace
About this i mean i don't see a way to defend against oh i didn't know anything was happening it seems.
- [14:49]
Elena Shirazi
Like you did hey sydney look at.
- [14:51]
Nancy Grace
This look at this charlie kirk is coming to my college tomorrow i really hope someone evaporates him literally let's just say same person speaking omar let's just say something big will happen tomorrow wow and look look at all the people that have reposted it that have hearted it i don't know i don't think they're clairvoyant franz burghardt it's just like scott peterson oh here's another one college dropout does not know what's coming tomorrow they're referring to charlie kirk basically didn't get into the military academy so be ready this isn't a threat it's a promise that's jackson jackson i want to haul you in by your toenails and find out why you said that i mean we effing did it charlie kirk has died franz burghardt just like scott peterson they're not clairvoyant recall peterson said to his lover to this is going to be my first christmas without my wife i'm going to have my first christmas as a widow and then bam he did because he murdered her and their unborn baby connor same thing here these people are not clairvoyant i don't.
- [16:15]
Joe Scott Morgan
Know the answer to that i don't know that they're quote unquote co conspirators because they knew and didn't say anything absolutely foul absolutely disgusting and i you know if everybody's going to start singing at some point especially utah's a firing squad state they're not afraid to put someone down and everybody's going to start singing and all this forensic evidence all of it all of it is going to be used against not only the shooter but also these individuals well what.
- [16:45]
Nancy Grace
About aiding and abetting wouldn't that qualify as aiding and abetting cheering someone on in their crime not put on franz borghardt up look i know that you're coming at this from a different lens through a different lens than i am but just knowing about something is not necessarily crime but if you aid and abet if you further that conspiracy at all if you encourage encourage is listed in the aiding and abetted statute the black and white letter of the law says if you aid abet encourage and they're commas you don't need everyone aid comma abet comma encourage comma if you encourage a murder you're in it up to here borghardt well the federal government.
- [17:38]
Joe Scott Morgan
And the state are going to have leverage over these people to be sure even if it's not a strong aiding and abetting case nancy they're going to be able to say you know what we're going to throw it against the wall and see if we can get it to sick and that's why i think more likely than not these lower level and i say lower level because they weren't holding the gun but they may be just as responsible i think that they're gonna cooperate and try to cut deals that take death penalty off.
- [18:03]
Nancy Grace
The table to doctor bethany marshall joining us renowned psychoanalyst out of la author of deal breaker you can see her now on peacock at dr bethanymarshall dot com doctor bethany who are the ghouls that stand by and let a young father of two get shot in the in the throat tearing his throat out and then they cheer after forget what they did after the aiding and abetting the encouraging this that is a crime.
- [18:35]
Elena Shirazi
A felony now see these ghouls are people who are also homicidal you don't cheer somebody on unless you also have homicidal ideation now what's interesting about this shooting is it has some aspects of a school shooting not all it's an assassination as well in that he was standing at the top of a building it was a fish in a barrel quality scaring students creating a power differential and school shooters tend to confess online and everybody overlooks it now because they're afraid to turn the guy in or they minimize or discount it what's interesting and different about this is this perp was actually recruiting followers and the followers willingly went along and i think one of the ways that he recruited followers was through gaming and having people watch him playing violent games and so he was he was kind of creating an army of support and i'm going to say these people wished kirk dead as much as the perp dead they just didn't have to pick up the gun and do it themselves but they certainly egged him on and pushed him towards it and in my mind that is complicity at a psychological level say it.
- [19:52]
Joe Scott Morgan
Hear it and think it was some kind of a joke that's what we're trying to find out now but i promise you if there's a larger network here we're going to get that out to the public as soon as we can did they know were they sure of this or did they hear this and just write it off that's what we're going to have to find out and that's what we're investigating now he.
- [20:11]
Nancy Grace
Changed clothes to avoid detection he covered his tracks he parked far away he hid his weapon he had to go back and retrieve his weapon he tried to cover his face everything indicates he knew what he was doing was wrong and he tried to hide it afterwards so this guy the kirk suspect he ain't all that in a bag of chips let me throw a technical legal term at you idiot and tonight we're learning a potential motive hatred old as dirt in one text sent by the alleged shooter he was asked why he said some hatred cannot be negotiated with the alleged shooter says some hatred cannot be negotiated with and you know what that says to me maybe you won't get a plea negotiation think about it i wonder if his own words will be thrown back in his face will this be a death penalty case in the end or will it fizz out like coburger before the public knows what really happened and the degree of planning involved in kirk's murder right now we are learning formal charges and they mirror the charges on which he was arrested this is how it goes police have pc probable cause to arrest you the arrest is for let's just say murder and weapons charges generally speaking the formal charges and indictment will mirror what the cops used to arrest you for simple now sometimes additional evidence will come to light and there may be different or additional charges that said that's exactly what is happening in this case there are additional charges but the one that really matters is murder now we are learning that the shooter was apparently radicalized online sydney sumner before we discuss that could you just remind everybody how many thousands of hours the alleged shooter was online.
- [22:40]
Elena Shirazi
Well we know from his twitch channel so this is the amount of streaming games that he's played that he's publicly put out there for everyone to watch more than two thousand hours that's over ten years but when you do the math there that's an hour a day.
- [22:59]
Nancy Grace
At least now when you say that that was the amount we know of that was streamed a lot of people are not familiar with what that means nor should they be familiar with it they're out working and having lives my understanding is he would play online and there were two thousand hours of him playing online that he posted or that people could watch as he streamed it that doesn't include all the online activity that he didn't share streaming is that.
- [23:29]
Elena Shirazi
Right absolutely right so twitch is like facebook for video games so it's like streaming yourself live on facebook and people can tune in and watch as you're playing this video game so there's no telling how many hours he played not publicly just on his own devices without streaming it to everyone this is only a fraction of what he shared publicly.
- [23:52]
Nancy Grace
So the reason i'm telling you about this is because many suspect he was radicalized online steeped in political hatred online listen i will say that that person.
- [24:06]
Joe Scott Morgan
Has been very cooperative with with authorities.
- [24:10]
Elena Shirazi
An anonymous family member of the person robinson lives with believes lance twigs radicalized robinson the woman says twigs is very low contact with their family and hates them for their political and religious beliefs she blames immersion in online gaming culture for some of the personality changes seen in the roommates since mo but her gut tells her twig provided the fuel behind robinson's sudden extremism there was kind.
- [24:37]
Joe Scott Morgan
Of that deep dark internet the reddit culture and these other dark places of the internet where this person was going.
- [24:48]
Nancy Grace
Deep that from our friends that's the utah governor spencer cox from nbc speaking earlier.
- [25:00]
Elena Shirazi
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- [25:59]
Joe Scott Morgan
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- [26:29]
Nancy Grace
Big thank you to our partner in making today's crime stories possible it's grand canyon university a private christian university in beautiful phoenix arizona grand canyon university believes we are endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness gcu believes in equal opportunity and that the american dream starts with purpose gcu equips you to serve others in ways that promote human flourishing and create a ripple effect of transformation for generations to come by putting others before yourself to glorify god whether your pursuit involves a bachelor's master's or even doctoral degree gcu's online on campus and hybrid learning environments are designed to help you achieve your unique academic personal and professional goals with over three hundred forty academic programs as of september twenty twenty four gcu meets you where you are and provides a path to help you fulfill your dreams the pursuit to serve others is yours let it flourish find your purpose at grand canyon university private christian affordable visit gcu edu thank you grand canyon university for being our partner when someone's told they have diabetes it can feel like their life has changed completely decisions about what to eat what activities to do and what's going to happen in the future can feel like a mystery with no solution but with dexcom g seven the one most accurate cgm system you can quickly and easily see where your glucose is where it's been and where it's headed in real time without finger sticks this allows you to make confident decisions about food activities even medications so you can keep your glucose levels in range and even lower your a one c which helps protect your long term health dexcom g seven is the most covered in cgm brand at pharmacy and is the most recommended cgm brand by both patients and doctors dexcom g seven gives you the knowledge to better control diabetes today for healthier tomorrows start your healthier tomorrow at dexcom dot com knowledge dexcom data on file finger sticks required if symptoms or expectations don't match readings for full prescribing information on risks benefits and a list of compatible smart devices visit dexcom dot com crime stories with nancy grace chris mcdonough joining me director cold case foundation star of the interview room on youtube but former homicide detective working over three hundred homicides plus more chris mcdonough motive doesn't matter now i know that sounds you know off base but the reality is motive does not have to be proved by the state period however juries like to hear it what do you think about this radicalized online you know nancy there's.
- [29:44]
Joe Scott Morgan
A couple of things happening right now that are fluid in this investigation they are scraping the internet for every click every keyboard click from mister robinson's devices and those keyboard clicks will tell us any kind of messaging that may or may not have been going back and forth to the streaming platforms where these gamers hang out the roommate hung out on a variety of different type of streaming platforms one of them was twitch the other one was what they call steam s t e ste am i've been on the ground the last three days here in utah this is where the investigation is focusing there's one other point that they're trying to establish and that's the car in of itself they've pulled the telematics out of the car they want to know if that car was moving when that shot went off if that car was moving now we're into another direction that this investigation could.
- [30:45]
Nancy Grace
Take hold on that is a bombshell repeat about the car potentially moving while robinson allegedly scaled down the side of that wall while he was shooting while he was laying in wait in a sniper's nest what yeah and while we.
- [31:06]
Joe Scott Morgan
Remember when we talked the other day nancy that the car was at his residence right there well of course it had to get there so they're tracking his phone pings and his phone pings just kind of my understanding they're not positive if it went to a car or if the car was parked et cetera so they now have that car and they have pulled the data on that car and that's going to potentially take them either a it was parked or b there's something else going on here and somebody is driving that car.
- [31:44]
Nancy Grace
To alina shirazi joining us senior political reporter daily mail elena we were looking at video and stills of the same video of the defendant walking through a neighborhood he had thought ahead elena as you well know and changed his outfit take a look at this this is him walking through a neighborhood that's my friends at tmz in an entirely different outfit now when he was kneeling down and lying on his stomach he was wearing what you see on the right now wait a minute eight o seven he's on foot eleven forty nine he's changed clothes he's back on foot where was his car did someone drop him at a drop point and pick him back up did he hide his car somewhere and go back to it elena what do we know yeah i mean.
- [32:44]
Elena Shirazi
Looking at all of this including those discord messages that the fbi is looking through that sort of predicted that this would happen the fact that he was so entrenched in these groups also referencing of course his romantic partner which authorities say he became really radicalized sort of impassioned by his views afterwards so i mean looking at this i mean it started with a note and will end with a funeral they recovered the mauser ninety eight rifle was a towel with dna prints there is enough evidence there the big question now is was he working alone and they do have evidence that they're looking through now that could potentially point to that but we certainly we certainly will see he just ditched his gun in the forest in the woods before he went so it was premeditated as you said he changed his clothes it was planned but he's clearly not an expert because he left his.
- [33:50]
Nancy Grace
Dna elena we're showing right now you're correct where he ditched the gun and we had on the little facts that we knew at the time hypothesized that the tree area the tree line where he ditched the gun was not up in the mountains where many people thought he had absconded up into the mountains pulling an eric rudolph the olympic bomber who lived in the mountains for years before he was caught but somewhere close to a road so that leads me to wonder did someone pick him up in his vehicle after he ditched the gun little did he know a towel is the perfect conduit for dna chris mcdonough you stated that the car and its nav system is being reviewed now to determine if it was moving at the time charlie kirk was murdered how does that work how do they do.
- [34:47]
Joe Scott Morgan
That so what they do is they pull the navigation system out as well as some of the what they call a telematics system and they're able to send that to either quantico or salt lake city where they have also an fbi office and in that data you're able to see exactly what that car is doing if it's moving you know if it makes if the blinker comes on etcetera there's a tremendous amount of forensic data that can you know be had there and let's not forget that the that tyler robinson at this point also post homicide told his roommate to go you know potentially go get that gun okay now why would he do that what's going on there and so this is the angle i think the law enforcement is running on in terms of trying to get the bigger circle because i think that the car in and of itself is going to be very critical in relationship to if like we were talking about here nancy if it's moving if it's what about it joe scott hey look his car i like that in the possessive who's driving the car nancy they've already found dna on a towel this is going to be very compelling to me they will search this car thoroughly chris had mentioned the electronics in the car but i'm interested in contact trace dna on that steering wheel i want to know is there anybody else's dna in that car that is not an owner of the vehicle who's operating the vehicle if they've gone down this road relative to this towel remember they found the screwdriver as well that they say had remnant of dna well if someone is using the gear lever if someone is opening the door inside of this vehicle somebody is obviously steering it i want to know did they recover any touch dna inside of this vehicle and also are there any latent prints inside this vehicle now we know if he's in a relationship with this person it's not beyond understanding that that individual would occupy that space however it opens the door for other questions forensically like operating the vehicle have you ever operated this vehicle before and you begin to press this individual relative to more information well think about it.
- [37:12]
Nancy Grace
Jessica morgan here's a great example i know you recall the reporter teresa hallback who was sex assaulted murdered and her body burned in a fire pit in the backyard of stephen avery all that was found were some of her teeth and the studs on the back of her daisy fuentes jeans her vehicle was parked at the end of his auto salvage lot covered up and on the ignition was his sweat where he can't you imagine hunched over the wheel trying to crank up her car and go hide it just sweating onto the ignition and the la there law enforcement got his sweat off the ignition i mean yes you're right but here's one thing i understand everything you're saying and you're absolutely correct the thing i don't understand doctor bethany marshall and somebody calls you after you gunned down charlie kirk tearing his throat out and say hey hey can you give me a ride and this person says oh yeah here i come i was just circling who in the h e double l goes along.
- [38:29]
Elena Shirazi
With that see nancy this is where i think the behavioral evidence is so important let's say these two are acting in concert what we know about men who are homicidal who act in concert is usually there's a stronger male who recruits a more vulnerable male and what we're going to see if you look at all of the twitch accounts how they were interacting with people online what i'm interested in is is it just the perp on twitch playing violent games in front of a following or is it the two of them recruiting a following to me that is so vital and that's going to be very easy to see nancy whose face is there who's electron footprint is there and i also think of this almost like a small cult where you have two people who are just getting a groundswell of.
- [39:23]
Nancy Grace
Support as of tonight the suspect robinson has stopped cooperating but many a true word is spoken in jest take a.
- [39:36]
Joe Scott Morgan
Listen the suspect has not been cooperating so far and so we're getting all of this information from family members again.
- [39:45]
Elena Shirazi
People around the suspect almost immediately immediately after the release robinson's friends called him out in their discord group chat one asking robinson where he is robinson shoots back it's my doppelganger trying to get me in trouble another proclaims tyler killed charlie a third suggests turning robinson in for the reward and robinson sneers only if i get a cut he saw.
- [40:08]
Nancy Grace
The governor speaking to our friends at nbc doctor bethany marshall help me out here you just take a two hundred yard shot and tear the throat out of a husband father okay and then you're joking about getting a cut of the reward when you're the killer actually.
- [40:23]
Elena Shirazi
Nancy this does fit the profile of this kind of a killer because what it tells me is that he had some kind of paranoid ideation meaning that he felt that charlie kirk's presence on this earth was affecting him negatively in some way so once he takes him out there's a relief phase there's always a relief phase after homicide where somebody's calm we saw casey anthony going shopping kind of dancing on the other person's grave so i think that's really probative here that the fact that they're joking with each other because the group is getting their their jollies off they're very happy that this has happened it's almost.
- [41:01]
Nancy Grace
As if he's giddy listen to this.
- [41:03]
Elena Shirazi
The chat continues joking how luigi mangione was caught whatever you do don't go to a mcdonald's anytime soon robinson replying he better get rid of this manifesto an exact copy rifle i have lying around before insisting the shooter is clearly.
- [41:19]
Nancy Grace
From california alina shirazi joining senior political reporter daily mail explain they are comparing the shooting of charlie kirk to the shooting of brian thompson the health ceo.
- [41:34]
Elena Shirazi
Correct yeah they're trying to draw comparisons there and just kind of make some comments in jest for luigi mangioni who was arrested at mcdonald's so you know they responded with a punchline to that so the question is if they truly believe that robinson didn't do it you know that could be a part of the reason why they were joking if they did know it was him that's an entire story in and of its own but you can imagine what was going through robinson hold on just a.
- [42:05]
Nancy Grace
Second you're right elena but i want to point out to doctor bethany marshall they're comparing him to luigi mangione who we have on video shooting brian thompson dead sneaking up on him like a coward and shooting him dead much the way charlie kurt was shot dead at a distance so the shooter couldn't be hurt or attacked it's easy to shoot somebody gun them down with a scope and a long range rifle right and here he is talking about yeah i better not i better get rid of my manifesto like mangione's manifesto and i got to get rid of the copyright he's not saying what are you talking about i didn't do this i would.
- [42:54]
Elena Shirazi
Never kill anybody you know nancy if you dress it up as a homicide for some kind of ideological logical reason you just rationalize to yourself that it's okay but the end of the day homicide is homicide okay and i think of homicide in a case like this he talks about hatred i think underneath the hatred is basic envy charles kirk had a great life a great wife two beautiful children he had the public stage he was beloved he was kind of a provocateur but people flocked to debate with him and to hear what he had to say and i think that these perps and i'm going to put an s on the end of this because i think they all colluded even though the group didn't want to get their hands dirty they sent one soldier out it's a group i think there's basic envy towards somebody who was leading a great life they couldn't stand.
- [43:47]
Nancy Grace
It does that fit in with many of these cohorts of his leading a secret life as a furry we know.
- [43:58]
Elena Shirazi
Nancy i'm kind of sad that furries have gotten drawn into this because by and large the furries are sort of a diverse community of people who are fun loving they like to have personal expression they talk about wearing fur suits which they'll spend months making bethany charlie.
- [44:15]
Nancy Grace
Kirk had his throat torn out i appreciate your defense of the furries but can we please focus on the murder.
- [44:23]
Elena Shirazi
Okay well nancy there is a small portion of the furry community they talk about expressing their personalities wearing their fur suits but a small portion of them have fetishes in that dressing up as an animal is very sexualized now interestingly the shooter made a reference to his bulge telling me that he equated shooting charlie kirk with having an erection meaning that there was a sexual thrill in shooting him in the throat so we have envy we have school shooting psychology we also have sexual excitement which tells me that you have a group of followers online who in some ways have also fetishized killing i don't think this makes the furry community look very good i don't think this has to do with furries i think this has to.
- [45:14]
Nancy Grace
Do with the grooming nobody's running from his congeniality right now doctor bethany and what i tried to ask you was is part of a rich fantasy life pretending you're an animal okay if you're already living in another realm is this just a part of your pretend world i mean kirk is dead and whether they were going along gleefully it wasn't real they were going along with it in real life whether they meant to or not now see that presumes you intend the natural consequence of your act and when you help encourage aid and abet someone to commit a murder whether you're pretending or it's your fantasy doesn't matter the law assumes you intend the natural consequence of your act.
- [46:15]
Elena Shirazi
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Joe Scott Morgan
Surprised by a divorce ad for hellodivorce dot com don't be we all know someone dealing with divorce right now maybe.
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Elena Shirazi
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Joe Scott Morgan
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- [47:43]
Nancy Grace
Com today big thank you to our partner making today's crime stories possible it's grand canyon university a private christian university in beautiful phoenix arizona grand canyon university believes we are endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness gcu believes in equal opportunity and that the american dream starts with purpose gcu equips you to serve others in ways that promote human flourishing and create a ripple effect of transformation for generations to come by putting others before yourself to glorify god whether your pursuit involves a bachelor's master's or even doctoral degree gcu's online on campus and hybrid learning environments are designed to help you achieve your unique academic personal and professional goals with over three hundred forty academic programs as of september twenty twenty four gcu meets you where you are and provides a path to help you fulfill your dreams the pursuit to serve others is yours let it flourish find your purpose at grand canyon university private christian affordable visit gcu edu thank you grand canyon university for being our partner when someone's told they have diabetes it can feel like their life has changed completely decisions about what to eat what activities to do and what's going to happen in the future can feel like a mystery with no solution but with dexcom g seven the number one most accurate cgm system you can quickly and easily see where your glucose is where it's been and where it's headed in real time without finger sticks this allows you to make confident decisions about food activities and even medications so you can keep your glucose levels in range and even lower your a one c which helps protect your long term health dexcom g seven is the most covered cgm brand at pharmacy and is the most recommended cgm brand by both patients and doctors dexcom g seven gives you the knowledge to better control diabetes today for healthier tomorrows start your healthier tomorrow at dexcom dot com knowledge dexcom data on file fingersticks required if symptoms or expectations don't match readings for full prescribing information on risks benefits and a list of compatible smart devices visit dexcom dot com crime stories with nancy grace and i want to point out that so many people are gleeful over murder.
- [50:35]
Elena Shirazi
Listen to this real world consequences for hateful responses to kirk's murder a surgeon resigned after loudly proclaiming kirk got what he deserved dc canceled a comic book series after just one issue because the artist posted i hope the bullet's okay as quickly as they ran to social media to celebrate kirk's death many returned with news of their firings many extremely angry or and tears over the shocking development your homie dead your homie dead he got shot in the head your.
- [51:08]
Nancy Grace
Homie dead good gravy what was that sydney what was that well that was.
- [51:15]
Elena Shirazi
Eighteen year old cameron giselle who approached a student on campus who was standing there holding a sign that said rest in peace charlie kirk and was decorated.
- [51:27]
Joe Scott Morgan
With photos of him this was one.
- [51:29]
Elena Shirazi
Student by himself standing there memorializing kirk not really speaking with anyone unless somebody approached him specifically and giselle felt the need to attack this person for standing.
- [51:45]
Nancy Grace
Out there with a memorial sign so you saw her insane song that she.
- [51:51]
Elena Shirazi
Was singing she was getting in his face as other students gotten okay wait.
- [51:56]
Nancy Grace
A minute you know what you're glossing over the fact that sydney she said f your homie dead he got shot in the head f your homie dead that's what she was saying and that is from private story on tiktok now okay i want you to see the nurse that called this took some guts called a surgeon on celebrating kirk's murder.
- [52:22]
Elena Shirazi
No i'm not fired as of right now right now i i am suspended indefinitely unpaid why so i walked into the nurse's station and i just had learned about charlie kirk i saw this guy i didn't know who he was at the time and he was standing there celebrating the death of charlie kirk saying how he deserved it he hated charlie kirk and he had it coming.
- [52:49]
Nancy Grace
To him that mark from our friends at fox that took a lot of guts to call out a surgeon but there's more so we came in for.
- [52:59]
Joe Scott Morgan
An order earlier for the print a.
- [53:03]
Nancy Grace
Poster for a vigil tonight yes or.
- [53:06]
Joe Scott Morgan
Somebody that it's not oh so it's.
- [53:09]
Elena Shirazi
Propaganda i'm sorry we don't print that.
- [53:10]
Nancy Grace
Here it's propaganda i'm sorry we don't print that here what was that about.
- [53:14]
Elena Shirazi
Sydney so they were trying to hold a candlelight vigil for charlie kirk and they wanted to posters printed at office depot for that vigil and these employees refused to print them calling them propaganda so they were very pleasant in their conversation but office max corporate had a huge problem with their behavior fedex ended up printing the posters for free after seeing this video and those employees have.
- [53:45]
Nancy Grace
Been fired that video is from day pierno on x but here's here's the rubber to franz borghardt's veteran trial lawyer joining us out of baton rouge franz here's the deal we may disagree with their behavior and what they're doing and what they're saying we may think it's bloodthirsty and disgusting much like we feel when somebody burns the flag or has a poster that says f america or burns a beloved figure or political figure in effigy we don't like it but it's the first amendment so now refusing to do your job at office max or wherever that was is a whole nother can of worms but these people dancing on charlie kirk's grave are disgusting whether you agree with kirk or not doesn't matter the guy was murdered his children don't have a father i don't think they can be prosecuted not at all for saying whatever they want to.
- [54:47]
Joe Scott Morgan
Say so here's where the rubber meets the road nancy if they're in a state where there's inciting violence laws and generally those can be felonies those are not going to withstand a first amendment defense you can't shout fire in a crowded theater you cannot try to incite violence at a memorial people who do stupid stuff at their jobs they're going to get fired but depending on where these people are acting and what they are saying they may not be able to escape some kind of arrest or criminal prosecution look justifiably if you're trying to incite violence at a memorial i think you should be arrested hey you're.
- [55:25]
Nancy Grace
Preaching to the choir the investigation into the assassination of charlie kirk husband and father goes on if you know or think you know anything about the plot to murder kirk please call toll free eight hundred call fbi eight hundred two two five five three two four or eight zero one five seven nine fourteen zero zero you can go to tips dot fbi dot gov and now we remember an american hero deputy sheriff andres lahara citrus county sheriff's office killed in the line of duty after four fourteen years of service leaves behind a grieving wife michelle and two sons without a father vincent and nicholas american hero deputy sheriff andres lahara nancy grace signing off goodbye friend.
- [56:52]
Elena Shirazi
It starts like any other night the glass of red the cozy blanket then the drop the stains so dark so stubborn it might as well have been a crime scene but this isn't your average couch this is annabelle fully washable unspeakably comfortable and ready for whatever your life your kids or your ex throws at it and here's the kicker starting at just six ninety nine you can make sure your sofa isn't part of the problem fully washable stain resistant and built to hide even the darkest defenses right now get up to sixty percent off because no one should have to live with a stain that won't quit anna bay the only mystery you won't be losing sleep over shop washablesofas dot com today that's washablesofas dot.
- [57:50]
Nancy Grace
Com now streaming on paramount plus hunted by hackers stalked by assassins and wanted by international police tony and ziva are on the run and getting some action car chases surprise weddings killer drones undercover ops robot dogs daring heists prison breaks nothing will keep this couple from taking down an international conspiracy and clearing their names good thing espionage is their love language get ready for the ultimate romantic escape with the premiere of ncis tony and ziva now streaming on paramount plus.
- [58:27]
Joe Scott Morgan
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- [58:56]
Nancy Grace
With diabetes everyday decisions feel like a mystery without a solution but with dexcom g seven the most accurate cgm system you can quickly and easily see your glucose in real time on your phone helping you make confident decisions that keep your glucose levels in range and lower your a one c which can help protect your long term health dexcom g seven gives you the knowledge to better control diabetes today for healthier tomorrows start your healthier tomorrow at dexcom dot com knowledge data on file for full prescribing information on risks benefits and compatible smart devices visit dexcom dot com this is an iheart podcast.