KOHBERGER CONTESTING PLEA DEAL? CAN CASE GO TO TRIAL? LIFETIME 'IDAHO 4 MOVIE' OUTRAGE

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: KOHBERGER CONTESTING PLEA DEAL? CAN CASE GO TO TRIAL? LIFETIME 'IDAHO 4 MOVIE' OUTRAGE
Date: November 18, 2025
Host: Nancy Grace
Guests: Annie Elise, Dave Mack, Josh Colesrud, Joe Scott Morgan, Christy and Steve Goncalves, Chris McDonough, Dr. John Delatorre

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Main Theme

Nancy Grace examines the ongoing legal turmoil surrounding Bryan Kohberger—the admitted killer of four University of Idaho students—and his recent attempts to challenge the financial restitution component of his plea deal. The episode further explores growing outrage over a Lifetime movie dramatizing the murders, which the victims’ families describe as exploitative and deeply disrespectful.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Kohberger Contests Plea Agreement Terms

• Kohberger’s Challenge: Kohberger is refusing to pay restitution as outlined in his plea deal, particularly funeral and urn expenses for his victims. He claims inability or unwillingness to pay, despite having tens of thousands in his prison commissary account.
  • Nancy Grace: “Kohberger is welching on a major tenant of his plea deal under the law.” (01:13)
• Legal Implications: Multiple panelists assert that breaching a plea agreement (such as contesting restitution) could void it, potentially sending the case to trial.
  • Josh Colesrud: “If those terms are breached, then the plea agreement can be undone and this case can be set for trial.” (06:33)

2. Restitution Disputes and Kohberger’s Finances

• Restitution Details: The contested amount is around $30,000, covering funeral and urn costs. Kohberger has at least a five-figure sum in his account, much of it allegedly sent by supporters.
  • Annie Elise: “Why should he get more comfort than the victims were ever afforded?” (04:56)
• Judicial Frustration: The judge repeatedly presses the prosecution on why the plea agreement, which included restitution, is not being enforced.
  • Judge Hippler (as quoted by Dave Mack): “Why should you not be held to the plea agreement to pay the victims the costs of interring their children?” (03:44)

3. Failures of the Prosecution

• Prosecutorial Critique: The prosecution is criticized for incompetence, lack of communication with victims’ families, and for mishandling restitution terms.
  • Steve Goncalves: “He doesn't know what he's doing. I mean, he's over his head… he just was already retired.” (18:22)
• Family’s Burden: The Goncalves family must potentially sue civilly for some expenses due to prosecutorial mishandling, adding to their suffering and frustration.
  • Christy Goncalves: “We're exhausted, you know, and now something. This is just hard.” (16:09)

4. Victims’ Families Respond

• Outrage and Pain: Christy and Steve Goncalves, parents of victim Kaylee Goncalves, express disgust at the state’s failure to secure their rightful restitution and at a form letter they received from the prosecutor.
  • Nancy Grace: “This is basically a form letter covering his rear end.” (23:28)
• Lack of Victims’ Rights: The episode discusses potential violations of Idaho’s victims’ rights statute, possibly providing legal grounds to dissolve the plea deal.
  • Josh Colesrud: “So the victims, on their own, through their attorney, can file a special action with the court demanding that the plea agreement be unraveled.” (57:12)

5. Lifetime ‘Idaho Murders’ Movie Outrage

• Family’s Response: The Goncalves family and others are appalled by a Lifetime movie dramatizing the killings, especially after seeing behind-the-scenes TikToks of actresses in bloody costumes dancing on set.
  • Olivia Goncalves (Kaylee’s sister): “Maybe you should just think about if Kaylee was your sister … if you lay with dogs, you might get fleas.” (30:46 / 42:01)
• Disrespect and Grief: The TikTok videos are seen as deeply disrespectful to the victims’ memories.
  • Christy Goncalves: “It makes you sick... that somebody would actually take a role to portray somebody that died in such a horrific way and make light of it.” (33:11)
• Broader Cultural Critique: The panel condemns the societal fascination with killers over victims and the media’s exploitation of tragedy.

6. Forensic and Crime Scene Details

• Brutality of Crimes: Joe Scott Morgan graphically describes the overwhelming violence of the murders, why the plea itself is controversial, and the horror inflicted on the victims.
  • Nancy Grace: “Ethan had his jugular vein slashed… it was like a water sprinkler in the front yard, spurting his life's blood…” (11:03)
  • Joe Scott Morgan: “She had so many wounds that they were cross communicating and overlying one another. It was hard to delineate between these wounds…” (48:16)
• Public Disconnect: Morgan and others argue that the sanitized portrayal of such brutality in media lacks the sobering reality of true crime scene investigations.

7. Prospects for Voiding the Plea Deal

• Pathways Forward: There’s consensus that if Kohberger continues contesting material terms (restitution), the plea could—and should—be voided, potentially setting up a trial if competent, independent prosecution is brought in.
  • Josh Colesrud: “If there was ever a time for a death penalty case, this was it.” (07:40)
  • Nancy Grace: “There could be a way around this deal with the devil. But now will it happen? I am begging the feds to intervene.” (57:35)

8. Societal Implications & Call to Action

• Victims Overlooked: Both the Lifetime movie and the handling of the case are seen as emblematic of a broader disregard for victims in media and legal systems.
• Call for Accountability: Nancy Grace urges listeners to push for federal intervention and for victims’ rights to be respected.
  • “The current U.S. attorney for the Idaho district is Bart M. Davis. … You have the knowledge. Use it.” (57:35)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Kohberger is welching on a major tenant of his plea deal under the law.”
  – Nancy Grace (01:13)
• “A plea agreement is a contract, and it has specific terms... If those terms are breached, then the plea agreement can be undone.”
  – Josh Colesrud (06:22-06:33)
• “For Pete’s sake, does Judge Hippler have to feed the prosecution with a silver spoon?”
  – Nancy Grace (04:03)
• “Why should he get more comfort than the victims were ever afforded?”
  – Annie Elise (04:56)
• “He doesn't know what he's doing. He's over his head. ... We did everything for that courtroom ... he just was already retired.”
  – Steve Goncalves (18:22)
• “It makes you literally sick to your stomach. … It's disgusting and it hurts.”
  – Christy Goncalves, re: TikTok videos (33:11)
• “You know what? Fine. I'd be mad if you didn't. Let's go to trial.”
  – Nancy Grace (09:32)
• “If you connect the dots… information we had for them was damning. ... Certain things people want to leak to scare people, to intimidate them.”
  – Steve Goncalves (24:49)
• “No remaining issues.” [from the prosecutor’s form letter about the case]
  – Quoted by Nancy Grace (23:27)
• “If you lay with dogs, you might get fleas.”
  – Olivia Goncalves (30:46 / 42:01)
• “He’s not even that interesting.”
  – Dr. John Delatorre on Kohberger (53:32)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:06 – Episode theme and Kohberger challenge kicks off
• 02:19 – Discussion: Kohberger seeking “control” even in custody
• 03:44 – Judge Hippler questions defense’s refusal to pay restitution
• 04:56 – Annie Elise on the injustice of Kohberger’s commissary comfort
• 06:22 – Colesrud explains the legal effect of breaching plea terms
• 11:03 / 12:12 – Graphic descriptions of the murders’ brutality
• 14:15 – Entry of Kaylee Goncalves’ parents, Christy and Steve
• 16:09 – Christy details exhaustion over having to pursue civil restitution
• 18:22 – Steve Goncalves criticizes prosecutorial dysfunction
• 24:49 – Steve alleges prosecution office leaks to the defense
• 30:46 – Olivia Goncalves’s viral critique of the Lifetime film on TikTok
• 33:11 – Christy describes the pain caused by the actors’ TikTok dance
• 46:29 – Joe Scott Morgan on the horror of aspiration blood at the crime scene
• 48:16 – Morgan describes the injuries inflicted on Kaylee Goncalves
• 53:14 / 54:27 – Dr. Delatorre and Chris McDonough on societal focus on killers over victims
• 57:12 – Colesrud outlines the legal path for voiding the plea deal

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Tone and Takeaways

• Critical and Unflinching: Nancy and the guests use blunt, sometimes graphic language to stress the gravity of the crimes and the failings of the judicial system.
• Victims-first Approach: The host and guests repeatedly return focus to the continued suffering and dignity of the victims’ families.
• Frustration and Outrage: The episode is laced with frustration toward the local prosecutor, the plea bargain, the public’s obsession with the killer, and the insensitivity of media portrayals.

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Closing

Nancy Grace ends the episode urging listeners to demand accountability and push for the plea deal to be voided—so the case can go to trial and victims’ rights can be affirmed. She also memorializes a fallen Border Patrol agent, emphasizing the importance of honoring true heroes over glorifying criminals.

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Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

This is an I Heart podcast.

[Annie Elise]

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[Nancy Grace]

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[Annie Elise]

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[Nancy Grace]

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[Annie Elise]

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[Dave Mack]

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[Annie Elise]

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[Dave Mack]

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[Annie Elise]

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Bryan Kohberger is contesting his plea deal, reneging on some of the orders in exchange for life over the death penalty. Can the case now go to trial Amidst a Lifetime Idaho 4 movie outrage? Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Bryan Kohberger admitted pled guilty to four murders. They were worse than murders. They were slaughters of four innocent college students. University, Idaho, straight out to Annie Elise, host of Seriously Annie Coburger is welching on a major tenant of his plea deal under the law. I mean, Annie, that would be like me sentencing you to 20 years on Armed robbery and you have to elocute in court exactly what happened. We do the deal and then you refuse to elocute. Okay, deals off. What is he contesting paying for funeral expenses?

[Annie Elise]

It seems to me like it's all about back to control. He doesn't seem to like any of the inconveniences that are happening now that he's behind bars, whether it's what he overhears the prisoners saying about him, the money that's pouring in and having to possibly use that toward restitution. I think the reality is now setting in for him and there's starting to be some backpedaling happening.

[Nancy Grace]

It's my understanding to Dave Mack, crime Stories investigative reporter, that Kohberger is balking at paying for the victim's urns and other expenses. Right.

[Dave Mack]

Exactly, Nancy. The shocking part of it is that in that plea deal, all of this was already negotiated. All of this was part of it so that he could avoid going to trial and avoid the needle or the gun. And yet now they're going back in and saying, well, we need to send this to the mathematicians at accounting at the state to determine whether or not he's able to pay for it because he's in prison for the rest of his life. And that actually is something that he's not allowed to do. This plea bargain said he could not go back later and appeal it. He couldn't contest any aspect of it. And, and in so doing, Nancy, I wonder why have they not already said, boom, over, you're going to trial.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, the judge seems to agree with you, Dave Mack. Listen to Hitler.

[Dave Mack]

So you took advantage of the plea agreement to get the benefit of the bargain regarding the state's dropping of the death penalty. Why should you not be held to the plea agreement to pay the victims the costs of, of interning their children?

[Nancy Grace]

I mean, for Pete's sake, does Judge Hippler have to feed the prosecution with a silver spoon? Here's your way out of this disastrous plea deal, out of all of your lies and your secret deals. Kohberger is contesting restitution. That was part of the deal. So deal is off. I mean, can the judge make it any more clear? Listen to Hitler.

[Dave Mack]

What's the point of the plea agreement on restitution if the defense is able to argue against the restitution called for in the plea agreement itself?

[Nancy Grace]

And it's not an issue, is it? To Annie Elise joining us from serializ Lee. Annie, he's got at least a five figure amount of money in his commissary account.

[Annie Elise]

It's unbelievable. First and foremost the fact that people are sending an admitted quadruple murderer tens of thousands of dollars then for him to be contesting payment the restitution that is outlined and I'm sorry, but $3,000 for the urns, Is that the going rate these days? For a life. It's just if he's afforded these comforts of ramen toiletries, different treats with his commissary, why should he get more comfort than the victims were ever afforded?

[Nancy Grace]

Bryan Kohberger has just been ordered by the judge to fork over 30 grand from his slush fund fine. I'm glad you did that judge. To pay the victims families. But the fact that Kohberger has contested the deal. Stop everything deals off. Joining me is a veteran trial lawyer who will tell you the truth. We may not like it, but the truth. Josh Colesrud is with us. He is a veteran criminal defense attorney, former U.S. attorney, founder of Colesrude Law Offices. Josh, I know that now in this incarnation of yourself, you are A defense attorney. But isn't it true that when a defendant, When a defendant backs out of one of the tenants of the plea deal, the deal is off?

[Josh Colesrud]

Yes. So a plea agreement is a contract, and it has specific terms that need to be followed. And if those terms are breached, then.

[Dave Mack]

The plea agreement can be undone and.

[Josh Colesrud]

This case can be set for trial.

[Dave Mack]

One of the ways that that could.

[Josh Colesrud]

Happen is a material breach and not paying restitution. So what does that mean? Well, Brian Coburger agreed to have a fair dealing with his finances, his money, where it was going, and to pay restitution.

[Dave Mack]

Now the state is saying that it was their screw up, that they didn't.

[Josh Colesrud]

Include the terms in the plea agreement, but that's nonsense. I'll tell you why. Because the defendant, Brian Kohberger, was levied a $250,000 fine.

[Dave Mack]

And that fine, the money from that can be. Can garnish his wages, and that money.

[Josh Colesrud]

Can be transferred into the victim compensation fund.

[Dave Mack]

So they should be able to still go after the money. And so what the prosecution is doing here, they're just being lazy.

[Josh Colesrud]

They're not confident in what they're saying.

[Dave Mack]

The judge is actually having to tell.

[Josh Colesrud]

Them and give them a roadmap out of this because honestly, they're incompetent. I have no idea why they decided to actually plead this case out when.

[Dave Mack]

If there was ever a death penalty.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, that's a whole nother can of worms, Coles. Rude. You and me both. Kohberger argued last week he was refusing and unable to pay $27,000 restitution to the families, the families of students he butchered dead. The judge threw out his complaint, his complaint of poverty, noting that he has gotten hundreds of dollars from supporters totaling nearly $30,000. Now he's being ordered to pay restitution. That's well and good. My point is he contested the deal. He hasn't paid it. He's saying he doesn't want to pay it, that he's unable to pay it, which is a lie because I know about his five figures of money he's got in his commissary account. To me, that's welching on a deal. Joe Scott Morgan joining me, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University. He's the author of Blood Beneath My Feet. He's the star of a hit podcast, which is incredible. Body bags with Joe Scott Morgan on and on. But for our purposes, he is a veteran death investigator. Thousands of death scene investigations, every cod, every mod, cause of death, matter of death. You can imagine why why should this have never been a sweet plea deal? Let's just start with that. Why is this so inflammatory that this was even allowed to be a plea? And he's ordered to pay the family's restitution after butchering their children, and now he's backing out of it? You know what? Fine. I'd be mad if you didn't. Let's go to trial. Why is this so wrong?

[Josh Colesrud]

Joe Scott, in the south, we have a term that says let the hide come with a hair. My granddaddy used to say that all the time. If he feels froggy, let's jump. Let's go to trial. Because now we have buckets and buckets of evidence that have been revealed. Now, I got to tell you, Nancy, give me a little rope here. I know I'm not an attorney. I understand that, but he's kind of got a point of leverage here. They just released a tranche of 2,400 documents of forensic evidence. Now, so if this thing did go to trial, everything has been revealed. And you know, if you think about from the perspective of taining the jury pool, perhaps they've seen all of this stuff. We've got images that are floating around out there, Nancy. They have flown. And I'll say this directly to the prosecutor, they have flown this case into the side of the mountain from jump street, all right? They got nobody to blame but themselves. I was an advocate from the beginning to say that he, like you had mentioned a second ago, he should have allocated in court to everything that he did instead of sitting there. Instead of sitting there and not saying a damn word other than, yes, I did it. You know, even BTK was compelled. Nancy. There are people sitting on death row right now in Idaho that have done far less butchery than he does. He's killed four people, slaughtered them, and now he's complaining about having to pay the family money. This is a gigantic mess.

[Nancy Grace]

Just got Morgan. The nature of the murders was more akin to a butchering, a slaughtering. When I look at specifically. Well, they're all horrible. Ethan had his jugular vein slashed, which means there was arterial bleeding, which means that coming from his neck, Ethan's neck, it was like a water sprinkler in the front yard, spurting his life's blood until he was dead. The disfiguration. Kelly Gonsalves, where her face was stabbed between 20 and 30 times, could not even identify her. He stabbed her teeth out of her mouth and more. The other two, Maddie and Zanna, horribly, horribly disfigured. Why Is it that it is so insulting that now he says he can't pay restitution? That was part of the deal.

[Josh Colesrud]

When you think about just Kaylee alone, Nancy, not only was she stabbed, she had blunt force trauma to her face. I actually believe that he took that KA bar knife and flipped it on the, on the end of its handle. That was driven into her multiple times too. You've got these crushing injuries to her face. She's got severe maxill facial, facial damage. And then, you know, you take this robust knife blade and you drive it into her. And not just her, but these other victims as well. You've got Maddie laying there and she's been butchered as well. Nancy. This would have been a bloodbath. Contained to that, contained to that, but to the bed where they were killed. And we've also got bloody deposition that's laying all over the floor. That, that appears to me, Nancy, that he was standing there and probably gazing at the bodies as blood is dripping and falling away free form and striking the ground directly below his feet. You see this blood throughout the house. The deposition that goes to this point, that all of this information now has been revealed. So you know, where does the family turn at this point in time? All they're asking for is to show respect to their, to their loved ones that have been killed. Nancy, he must pay.

[Nancy Grace]

I don't understand what is wrong with the prosecutor that's been asked many, many times. The judge is basically spoon feeding him with a silver spoon, a way out of his disastrous plea deal. Listen to Hitler.

[Dave Mack]

Isn't a reasonable interpretation of the plea agreement that the defendant will not. Contest the state's seeking of restitution that is outlined in the plea agreement. Otherwise why would it need to be in the plea agreement? It seems to me it's the plea agreement. A reasonable interpretation is the defendant is agreeing to pay restitution for those items that are identified in the plea agreement, which includes victims compensation. Pardon me. Which includes in this case, funeral expenses.

[Nancy Grace]

Joining us tonight, two special guests, the parents of Kelly Gonsalves, Christy and Steve. Christy and Steve, thank you for being with us. First, listen to this.

[Dave Mack]

So you took advantage of the plea agreement to get the benefit of the bargain. Regarding the state's dropping of the death penalty, why should you not be held to the plea agreement to pay the victims the costs of, of, of interning their children?

[Annie Elise]

Judge, I believe that our pleading was clear, that we understood that burns fell underneath a fun. But that once we have a hearing on this matter that doesn't Eliminate the court's duty under 195304 to do the ability to pay analysis.

[Dave Mack]

And that's why are you in violation of the plea agreement by arguing that your client shouldn't have to pay?

[Nancy Grace]

Those and more from the judge.

[Dave Mack]

What's the point of the plea agreement on restitution if the defense is able to argue against the restitution called for in the plea agreement itself?

[Nancy Grace]

At this hour, Kohberger has been contesting paying funeral expenses on the four students he murdered. That's bad enough, but here's the question. If he's reneging on the deal, then the deal is off and this case can go to trial if the prosecutor has the backbone to do it, which I doubt. Straight out to Christy and Steve Gonsalves joining us. Christy, you got a shocking letter from the prosecutor. Christy, could you explain what the letter says?

[Annie Elise]

Well, basically it says that the travel expense part of the restitution cannot be paid via the defendant's restitution. So we can civilly sue him for it, which is just, you know, we're exhausted, you know, and now something. This is just hard.

[Nancy Grace]

Christy, can I paraphrase what you just said? You can sue Kohberger. That's what the prosecution is offering the mother of a murdered girl. I'm not going to handle it. But you know what? You can go hire a lawyer, Christy, and you can pay the lawyer to sue Bryan Kohberger. Let's take a look at this letter. It says, and it says, dear gentleman, he can't even write your name. Attached is a copy of the court's order on state's request for restitution. Copies of restitution orders for your client's funeral related expenses. It tells you to look at footnote one at the bottom of page one. We were not able to pursue travel expenses. We were not able to pursue Steve Gonzales. What does that mean? When the prosecutor was writes you basically a form letter referring to you and your wife and others as dear gentleman. When I get something like that, I assume it's a bill collector. The state, in other words, him was not able to pursue your travel expenses where you had to leave your job in your home and drive seven hours and hole up in a hotel to be in court. They were not able to pursue that from you. Kohberger has five figures sitting in his commissary account. He will make a movie deal. It's allowed under the law in Idaho. He will write a book. But they did not pursue those expenses for you, Steve.

[Dave Mack]

Now right off the get go we said that this deal, the plea deal could be done, but it has to be done correctly. And I didn't think he had the skill level to do it correctly. That's why we pretty much demanded that the attorneys generals get involved. And, you know, that was the best option we could have. But, yeah, he doesn't know what he's doing. I mean, he's over his head. He's a boomer that's literally was trying to retire before this case even happened. And he's mentally retired. So we're the ones losing thousands of dollars, tens of thousands of dollars to his mistakes. And it's embarrassing for the state of Idaho. And, I mean, we. We did everything for that courtroom so that they could get the resources and they could get the attention, and we just couldn't get him out of that room. And that's really. That really is what's hurting this case, is we have Thompson in there just dropping the ball repeatedly over and over, and literally admitting it, like, I totally screwed up. Not apologizing, but just saying I screwed up. I mean, because it's clearly obvious the whole world's watching. He can't get himself out of it. But we've been bringing attention to this from the very beginning that there was. I mean, we talked about his office leaking information because we knew where the information was coming from, but nobody ever investigated it. Nobody even came to our family and said, how did you guys know that they were leaking information? Never even. Nope. Nobody's interviewed us to this day.

[Nancy Grace]

Can I ask you how you know it was the prosecutor's office that was leaking the info? Remember, there was going to be a big investigation, and then it just disappeared.

[Dave Mack]

There's a couple different ways, and I can't. I won't get into it on an open microphone like this, but if you go and look how Ann knew to subpoena my lawyer and our family and what we were discussing, basically, if you reverse that back, you're going to figure out that somebody in that room told Ann that we were talking about one of the witnesses and we knew information about her. So she knew to subpoena our lawyer. And the conversations that we were having with just his office. So how does Ann know. How does she even know that she should be requesting the communication from our personal lawyer to them?

[Nancy Grace]

What, Christy?

[Annie Elise]

Emails. She was requesting all emails from. From our attorney, Shannon Gray, our family, regarding this witness. And it was like, okay.

[Nancy Grace]

And the only time you discussed that was with reps from the DA's office.

[Dave Mack]

Exactly. Those are the only people we communicated with officially and we didn't talk to anyone else about what we had heard. We had just heard it within probably 48 hours.

[Nancy Grace]

He says, and I'm quoting as we previously submitted response to the court, we believe the crime victims compensation would be able to reimburse travel and accommodation expenses after the fact. Then we learned that wasn't correct. So they entered into a deal before they even knew whether you could get reimbursed for all that.

[Annie Elise]

That's what it sounds like to me.

[Dave Mack]

On a Sunday after, like talking to us on Friday. I mean, these guys didn't do much work at all, but now they're working on their Sundays to basically throw the case away.

[Annie Elise]

It starts like any other night. The glass of red, the cozy blanket, then the drop. The stain's so dark, so stubborn, it might as well have been a crime scene.

[Nancy Grace]

But this isn't your average couch. This is Anna Bay.

[Annie Elise]

Fully washable, unspeakably comfortable, and ready for whatever your life, your kids or your ex throws at it.

[Nancy Grace]

And here's the kicker.

[Annie Elise]

Starting at just $699, you can make.

[Nancy Grace]

Sure your sofa isn't part of the problem.

[Annie Elise]

Fully washable, stain resistant, and built to hide even the darkest defenses. Right now, get up to 60% off.

[Dave Mack]

In black Friday savings because no one.

[Annie Elise]

Should have to live with a stain that won't quit.

[Dave Mack]

Annabe the only mystery you won't be.

[Annie Elise]

Losing sleep over shop washablesofas.com today, that's washable sofas.

[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. But the last sentence in this letter makes me just want to chew a nail in half. Quote at this point, it appears there are no remaining outstanding legal issues in the criminal case other than ongoing review of previously sealed documents for possible public release. Sincerely, William W. Thompson, Jr. No remaining issues.

[Annie Elise]

I thought it was very weird.

[Nancy Grace]

I thought condolences, no. Sympathy, no Empathy, no anything. I mean, this is basically a form letter covering his rear end.

[Annie Elise]

I was very surprised to see how it ended when I read that last sentence too. I was like, wow, that's how we're going to end it? No, no further problems. If you guys want to get a civil lawyer, you could sue them on your own, separately. But I'm very curious.

[Nancy Grace]

Why do you believe. What could the possible motivation be? I have a theory that someone in the prosecution's office that you are speaking with, and I can only assume, assume that you went straight to the top discussing issues with a trial witness. And then within hours, the defense attorney suddenly wants to subpoena your lawyer's Documents about conversations regarding that witness. All I can think of is that the prosecution, Thompson, wanted to further along a plea deal by releasing potentially damning evidence on a witness.

[Annie Elise]

That's what we thought.

[Dave Mack]

Yeah.

[Annie Elise]

Yeah.

[Dave Mack]

If you connect the dots, you can see. What do you mean by that? Because the information that we had for them was damning. Was damning to bk. So certain things people want to leak to. To scare people, to intimidate them, to let them think that there's more going on than what is or. Or just letting them know that you've got. You've got some information that they're not completely privy. Privy to. So I. Obviously something was going on because she knew to ask for our. Our communications, and it just makes no sense how she would know that. This whole case has just been so hard to deal with. I mean, and we all. We. All we did was demand that whoever was in that courtroom that they. They just did their best job every single day. And I remember telling Thompson, because I was warned that he wasn't the man who could get this job done. So I just said, hey, if you're not. If you're checked out, if you want to retire, I get it. I respect it. You worked your whole life. You're 70 some years old. You don't want it. Step away. Step away.

[Annie Elise]

Somebody else.

[Dave Mack]

We'll go get some. But he wanted the fame, but he didn't want the work.

[Nancy Grace]

Christy and Steve, the fact that Kohberger is contesting issues within the plea deal, that's not the banner. The important part of this. We know he's contesting paying restitution. Could that end, rescind, renege the plea deal? Because if he is backing out, conditions of the plea deal, then the deal is off. Have you considered this? Could take the case to trial if Kohberger himself is refusing to pay restitution as ordered in the plea deal.

[Annie Elise]

Well, when you bring it up to our attention like that, you know, with. With your knowledge of how a court is, how courtrooms run and what has happened.

[Josh Colesrud]

It.

[Annie Elise]

I would love for that to happen, but I feel like it's just. It's all just games, and none of it is taken serious. Like, oh, he doesn't want to pay his restitution. Slap, slap, slap. You can't do that. Pay your restitution, Move on. Not, you know, you did a huge thing. You violated the plea deal. There's no, you know, second chances. We're going to trial. Just all game. It's just all the defense game. I mean, it just games. All the way around, I just feel like it just never ending. And now we're left with, well, you could civilly sue. And that's just so fun, frustrating. It's like, you know what? We're out, you know, a lot of money with everything. The last thing we want to do is sue and just be drugged into more and more court. You know, we were just hoping that they could handle it, the state could handle it on our behalf. So it would be nice to say you violated the plea deal. So we're going to trial.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, this is what it boils down to, Steve. Let's look at this. So I take a plea deal, 20 to serve, all right? And the defendant then goes, yeah, I'm not going to do that. I'm not. I'm not going to do 20. Well, then the deal is off. Paying your restitution is an important part of that deal. And if Coburger contests it, fine. I'd be mad if he didn't. Now, let's go to trial. That is possible. He's reneging on the deal. That's on him. So what you'd have to do, what we would have to do is get Thompson off this case. He can't try this case. Someone else, an independent prosecutor, would have to try it.

[Annie Elise]

Which would be great.

[Dave Mack]

I would love to see that. I would see that. And per that record, that letter, he doesn't. He doesn't respect the investigation that Hitler's doing. He didn't say that that was still going on. He said, we're done, we're over. He has no fear of Hitler's investigation because he holds all the cards. He has all the power. So I would love for an independent person to come in and look at it, and we're talking about. This guy has been trying to control the narrative, you know, bk, from the very beginning. The minute he even got in prison, he started writing up complaints and started doing formalities and saying, you're going to transfer me. You're going to do this, you're going to do that. We got to just put our foot down to these kind of psychopath killers and stop entertaining them and stop treating them with baby gloves. It's just. It's just disgusting. And we're doing it all the way up. Three years later, we're still entertaining.

[Nancy Grace]

It. Question. Have either you or Christie reached out to the feds to take this case?

[Annie Elise]

Steve has talked to them.

[Dave Mack]

I have talked to the feds. It's been a while since I have, but they're the ones that told me Thompson wasn't even ready for this. They like, don't go with this guy. This, this is not going to, this not going to end well. But they also at the same time told me, we're not going to give you the death penalty either. So I tried to pick the lesser of the two, two, two evils. And I was saying, well, at least I get the death penalty in Idaho. And I had a lot of belief in the Idaho system. I was just let down by a prosecutor who just was already retired. And I, I didn't know it.

[Nancy Grace]

Steve and Christy Gonzalez joining us tonight on top of these revelations in this cold blooded form. Letter from the prosecutor to them saying, yeah, you're not going to ever get your money back. That's insult to injury. The money, yeah, they're out a lot of money, thousands of dollars. They're out their daughter. They are out their daughter. Their daughter was horribly murdered. And we didn't know the truth about what happened to Kelly until after the secret plea deal goes down. And now they're getting another gut punch from a made for TV movie. And this is what their daughter Olivia has to say.

[Josh Colesrud]

Hi.

[Annie Elise]

So that's not iconic. You're young, so maybe you don't know, but I've looked at the past stuff you've done, and I think, you know, there is such a thing as defamation, which can be crushing to a career. Not that you really have one, but if you'd like one, maybe you should just think about it. Maybe you should just think about if Kaylee was your sister. Maybe you should just think about what you put out into the world, like dancing around in between scenes. Maybe you should think about the projects that you take on. Maybe you should think that if you lay with dogs, you might get fleas. So, yeah, maybe you should just think you look like you might be capable of it.

[Nancy Grace]

That's from Livia Goncalves on TikTok. And ever since she first opened her mouth, I knew that she's a champion. What is she talking about, Christy?

[Annie Elise]

Well, one of the actresses I think it was the one portraying Kaylee had a TikTok and they were her and Matt. Her and Maddie were dressed up, they were bleeding and they were dancing with the defendant. And the three of them were dancing and la and hooting, hollering and whatnot and carrying on. And she posted it on TikTok, something about, you know, loving her job or something. And it was like we were just appalled. We were like, okay, have fun with your co workers after work. But I mean, do you have to, you know, be dancing around.

[Nancy Grace]

And you are seeing this from Haley Hansen on TikTok. Christy, when you discovered that this was going on, how did that make you feel? Because even this many years later, after my fiance was murdered, when people write about it and make negative comments about. Never goes away the pain from that, much less someone dancing around on TikTok in the middle of portraying Keely.

[Annie Elise]

It's very hard. It makes you sick. It makes you literally sick to your stomach. And there were others where she is dressed up, you know, with a lot of blood on her and stuff, and smiling and saying, you know, oh, I'm all ready for my scene. It just. It's disgusting and it hurts, and it makes you just. It makes you ill that somebody would actually take a role to portray somebody that died in such a horrific way and take. Make light of it. Make light of it and. And have it. Have fun doing it, you know, like, not even somber. Like, gosh, this is really hard. But no, you know, let's have a dance party after and let's make tiktoks in between scenes. It's hard.

[Nancy Grace]

Steve Gonsalves, I know that you guys have much better, bigger issues than some actress Haley Hansen dancing around in fake blood during an outtake of. During a break from the movie. You have a lot more on your plate than that. But how did that strike you? Because I can see how upset Olivia is about it.

[Dave Mack]

I look at the bigger picture and it feels like every time I turn on the tv, I see some Mike shooting, killing, mass murder. And I think to myself, we have. We have multiple problems, but one of them is. Is kids who think they can do TikTok dances after. You know, as being part of this messaging, as part of this narrative, is part of this corrective measure if you want to say that's what they're trying to do. Because I. I want to refuse to think that it's entertainment, but clearly that organization doesn't understand what they're trying to represent, and they don't have a clear message, and they're not trying to help society get better and figure out, you know, when these people put out these red flags, that we do something about it. Part of that could be the documentation or a document on it and say, you know, these are the red flags. And if you see these things in your community, you know, put your foot down and make sure that somebody takes action. But when you see kids dancing and doing stuff like that and making light of the whole situation, you know, they do the exact same thing. To somebody else's child in somebody else's school, shooting somebody else's, you know, tragedy. And you're like, we're just going to do this all over again if we don't. If we don't learn from these people and from these. These cowards. We got to put some action and we got to put some action behind our words.

[Nancy Grace]

Joining us tonight, Christy and Steve Gonsalves, thank you for being with us. I know that every time you have to talk about this, it just brings it all up again. If you could have your wish, which of course would be to have Kelly.

[Josh Colesrud]

Back.

[Nancy Grace]

What would be your wish now regarding this furor and Kohberger refusing to pay restitution and this ridiculous movie, what is your wish, Christy?

[Annie Elise]

You know, I mean, the wish of wanting Kaylee back is obviously that that's not possible. So my only other wish would be for him to hurry up and take his last breath and just. We could be done. We can never have to talk. Talk about him again. And as far as movies go and books, you know, you just gotta roll with the punches. I mean, you can't fight them all. You just can't. But him being dead would be great. That'd be my wish.

[Dave Mack]

Me, I would try to make something positive out of it as much as you possibly can. And I feel like that's what me, Olivia and the family's doing is we're trying to put some actions. We're trying to put. We're trying to rally around anyone who sees something disgusting and puts their foot down and says, all right, I've had enough. I think that's. That's the best we can do. And if we can take this murder and all the people's attention on it and say, hey, there's no point of having red flags if we're not doing something about it. And we. We see all these killers and we look back at their past behaviors and there's all these red flags, but just, no, not enough action behind them. People just dodging the bullets, just saying, we didn't know he was a normal person. No, you did know. There was things there. There was girls making complaints all around this individual over and over, and you just refused to listen to them. You just refused to do something when they were crying out for help. And it's happening all the way to today. We're gonna lose tens of thousand dollars because the prosecutor refused to help us. He couldn't do it. He didn't. Whatever the reason, he failed us. And it's just happening over and over and over. And we just, we need some accountability. And this family is all about, you know, doing whatever we can for these girls, these victims to make sure that something comes out of it that changes society and helps, you know, reduce this type of. Type of crime ever again. That's the best I could hope for.

[Nancy Grace]

Kelly Gonzalez didn't get to pick her mode of death. She didn't get to pick whether she lived or died. Neither did did Maddie, neither did Ethan, neither did Zanna. To Annie Elise joining us. In addition to furor over the lifetime movie where the actors and actresses are actually doing TikTok dancing, some of them still in their bloody clothing, portraying Kelly and others and posting that. That's a whole nother can of worms. Can I talk about what matters? And that is the trial and Kohberger's refusal to pay restitution as was ordered in the plea agreement. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Annie Elise joining me, the star of a true crime podcast. Seriously, she's been on this case from the very beginning. Annie, thank you for being with us tonight. Annie, I'm just curious. I know that Kohberger's family sent him a lot of money, but other people are donating to Brian Kohberger. Why aren't they donating to the families of the victims on their GoFundMes? Who are these people?

[Annie Elise]

Nancy, it is so unnerving when you really break it down because nearly $30,000 has now poured into his account. And you know what? We've seen this before. The strange fan base, the dark celebrity treatment. We saw it with Chris Watts as well. But what the motivation is here, I don't know if it's that people truly believe he's innocent, if it's women who think they can fix him. But let's be clear. These people are sending money to an admitted court quadruple murderer. They need to rethink what they are actually supporting here.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, Annie Elise, it reminds me of Luigi Mangione. And much was made of the fact that about $40,000 at the get go had been funneled into his commissary account. Same with Coburger. It's five figures we now believe to be over $30,000. Are they lovelorn women? I mean, I don't understand who is trying to support Kohberger. But you're right, Annie. Online I see it all the time. People actually angry when I discuss his guilt. He pled guilty. Did I just dream that whole thing? He pled guilty in court, Annie.

[Annie Elise]

No, you are absolutely right. There's a group out there that actually call themselves the Pro Burgers, where they are advocating for his innocence, saying that it's all a setup, that it's all a cover. And I argue with them as well. You know, he admitted to what he did, not in the way that I think a lot of us hoped he would with full allocation, but he did admit to butchering these four students. So for them to now be sending him money still advocating for him, they need. There needs to be some sort of recalibration here. It does not make any sense what they're supporting.

[Nancy Grace]

Annie Elise. Also tonight, there is an uproar, and I think it's justified regarding a Lifetime movie about Bryan Kohberger's butchering these four students. And one of the first people to speak out is Kelly Goncalves sister. Listen, and I love to do Iconics.

[Josh Colesrud]

Hi.

[Annie Elise]

So that's not iconic. You're young, so maybe you don't know, but I've looked at the past stuff you've done, and I think, you know, there is such a thing as defamation, which can be crushing to a career. Not that you really have one, but if you'd like one, maybe you should just think about it. Maybe you should just think about if Kaylee was your sister. Maybe you should just think about what you put out into the world, like dancing around in between scenes. Maybe you should think about the projects that you take on. Maybe you should think that if you lay with dogs, you might get fleas. So, yeah, maybe you should just.

[Josh Colesrud]

Think.

[Annie Elise]

You look like you might be capable of it.

[Nancy Grace]

There you see Kelly's sister taking to the airwaves on Tick Tock with outrage against this movie. But more so about this.

[Annie Elise]

Listen, why this was even a concept.

[Nancy Grace]

That was pitched, I can't begin to understand.

[Annie Elise]

I don't think anyone wants to see a dramatized version of how these four.

[Nancy Grace]

Young people were killed in their home.

[Annie Elise]

Mind you, the trial for the murderer was only a few months ago. I hope and pray Lifetime decides to pull this from production and never continue. Never, ever, ever. If you sit back and you look at the loved ones perspectives for just a second, because no one can imagine what it's like to walk in their shoes, but to see an entire movie being made about their lives, casting actresses to play them, and they're not even involved in this, and they really have no say of stopping it, this just feels really unsettling.

[Nancy Grace]

Not only has Kelly's sister spoken out about not just the movie, but the actors and actresses doing a bloody dance scene sequence where they actually are still in costume, covered in blood, what happened.

[Annie Elise]

So I think that's where the outrage is here. Everybody expects that Lifetime and other networks will make movies and react to real life cases, but the way in which the actors are handling this, that's what's not landing well. Not only are they recreating dance scenes and little catchy voiceovers to these moves between takes, but they're there's also been times in which they are still in wardrobe, there is blood on them, and they are offset in their trailer or wherever they are, and they're doing these viral dance moves. And it is just classless, tactless and of course has upset a lot of the family members. Kaylee's sister, as you mentioned, has been very outspoken about this. I did reach out to her and chatted with her briefly about it because not only is she upset that they didn't consult the family before moving forward with this film, but also because of the behavior that is happening during. Just the disregard for the reality and the brutality of this being a real life situation that this family went through, you know.

[Nancy Grace]

To Chris McDonough joining me, Director, Cold Case foundation, former homicide detective who has been on the case from the beginning. He and I going to the scene and investigating. You can find him on YouTube at the interview room. Chris, obviously the guys at Lifetime and these actresses, actresses and actors have never been to an actual crime scene or they would not be making light of it.

[Dave Mack]

Yeah, 100%. And you know, let's remember when you make a deal with the devil, he's going to come collecting. And it looks like he's collecting right now, like what Doc Morgan was talking about just a minute ago. Nancy, let's not forget that there's evidence of aspiration blood, meaning while Bryan Kohberger is stabbing these individuals so brutally they are trying to breathe. And this is what we're dealing with. And if our culture thinks that's a good thing, we need to take a hard look in the mirror.

[Nancy Grace]

Joe Scott, you heard what Chris McDonough just said. He's the expert. He's been to thousands of crime scenes. Obviously, the actresses and actors and the producers at Lifetime have never been to an actual crime scene. Could you explain what this crime scene was really like?

[Josh Colesrud]

Joe Scott, as Chris had mentioned, there was aspiration of this blood and kind of, let me give you, for instance, for this. So if a lung is penetrated, an airway is penetrated, you aspirate that blood, which means you draw in and then you expirate it, Nancy. So it's literally Blown out like this. So you can see the blood deposited on various surfaces. And it looks different than, say, standard, like blood splatter, where you see something driven or struck into an area. It's kind of got an aerated appearance to it. It's almost. Sometimes you'll even see air bubbles in it. And that really lets you know about these final moments that they have. Just screaming for life, screaming for air, because their brain is screaming out, they can no longer breathe. And that's the brutality that's involved in these people that live in this fantasy world like this, that try to make a buck off of these poor people. It's. It's beyond the pale, Nancy. I wish just for once they could come and let me take them to an autopsy, let them see what that's like. Let them hear the screams and the wails of the family. I bet they won't want to do this again.

[Nancy Grace]

Just got the brutality inflicted on Kelly Gonsalves alone. Can you describe what happened to her face? And now these actresses. This actress covered in blood, is doing a dance TikTok about it. Still covered in fake blood.

[Josh Colesrud]

Yeah, he's taking a heavy steel blade and driving it through her face. And I still contend that he took it around because there were other abrasions on her face. Took it around and began to pummel her, like with the handle, like this. And probably inverted the handle and began to do this as well, driving it almost like the head of a hammer into her face over and over and over again. Nancy, she had so many wounds. Now dig this. Had so many wounds that they were cross communicating and overlying one another. It was hard to delineate between these wounds because of the inflicted trauma, where you've got this overlapping that occurs. That happens a lot in cases. But here you had it happen with multiple people. Just. Just Maddie as well. That happened with her as well, where you had these cross communications of injuries with her as well. So this was a level of brutality that I. I think that probably for those crime scene investigators that were out there, that scene, none of them had ever borne witness to anything like this before.

[Nancy Grace]

Could you describe the scene of arterial bleeding, such as what Ethan suffered?

[Josh Colesrud]

Yeah. So every time a vessel is clipped and the heart is still beating. And remember, just because you have a vessel that has been clipped in your neck doesn't mean that you die. He eventually dies of what's referred to as exsanguination, which means you're bleeding out. The loss of blood is incompatible with life, and so the blood is literally depositing itself as it's spraying out from the injuries. Every time that heart beats, it pulses, it contracts. That blood is driven out through that open wound, and it deposits on any of the adjacent surfaces. And you could see this. Sometimes you'll see it in kind of this histamine, like spray that kind of arcs over a wall. I've seen this multiple times, it seems, and it almost looks like a bloody rainbow, layer upon layer, and the person's writhing in pain. And so that pattern is going to change every time that blood spurts out. And that would have told the tale with any of these investigators that were out there could have borne witness to what Ethan had. Had gone through. And here's the thing, Nancy. Nobody in court's ever going to see that, are they? He's going to get there. This guy's going to be able just to say, yeah, yeah, well, I did it. But no one's ever going to be able to see the horror that he actually inflicted on these people. And that's why he's got three hots in the cot now, doesn't he?

[Annie Elise]

Nine one on location of your emergency.

[Nancy Grace]

Something is happening.

[Annie Elise]

Something's happened in our house.

[Dave Mack]

We don't know what.

[Nancy Grace]

What is the address of the emergency?

[Dave Mack]

11:22. What is the rest of the address?

[Nancy Grace]

Oh, Kings Road. Okay, and is that a house or an apartment?

[Annie Elise]

It's a house.

[Nancy Grace]

Can you repeat the address to make.

[Dave Mack]

Sure that I have it right?

[Nancy Grace]

I'll talk to you guys.

[Dave Mack]

We're.

[Nancy Grace]

We live at the White, so we're next to them. I need someone to repeat the address for verification. The address? 1122 King Road.

[Dave Mack]

Haley Hansen plays Kaylee Gonzalez in the new Lifetime movie the Idaho Murders, and uploads a video to TikTok dancing with the actors playing Maddie Mogan and Bryan Coburger. As all three are dressed in character. The video has upset family and friends who see the portrayal as disrespectful. Haley Hansen took the video down.

[Nancy Grace]

Joining us now, Dr. John Delatorre. He is a licensed psychologist and he specializes in forensic psychology. You have worked with so many crime victims. You've got on one hand Coburger refusing to pay restitution for the urns of his victims that he butchered. Then you've got a Lifetime movie where the actresses and actors are doing dance tiktoks covered in fake blood. I mean, this family, these four families have been through hell and back. They've got a prosecutor that writes them a form letter explaining why. Oh, yeah, if you want anything more, you can sue Civilly. Why don't you go hire a lawyer? Will it never end for these people?

[Dave Mack]

No, probably not. I mean, when then all of these wounds are going to be reopened once this movie actually comes out? Because here's the. Here's the nefarious thing. I highly doubt that this movie is really going to take the crime victims right where they're really going to look at the lives of these young lives. These young, beautiful lives are really going to be taken center stage. I imagine everything is going to be.

[Josh Colesrud]

Focused on Bryan Kohberger because that's where.

[Dave Mack]

People think that their interest should lie. But these four people deserve to have a life. If they needed a movie, they should be the focus. And instead they're probably going to just be relegated to the four victims in Bryan Kohberger's massacre.

[Nancy Grace]

You know what, De La Torre? Who is going to profit off this movie other than Lifetime? If they were telling the stories, the victims, families, they would probably profit. But I doubt very seriously that that's the way it's going to go.

[Dave Mack]

No, of course not. Of course that's not going to be the thing. Because in their mind, right, the producers of this movie, in their mind, the idea is that we're going to bring in all of the. The eyeballs because people want to understand the complexities of Bryan Kohberger. Bryan Kohberger is not complex. He's not even that interesting.

[Nancy Grace]

Complexities of Bryan Kohberger, I don't think he's. I don't think he's complex, but he's a freak.

[Dave Mack]

That's what the producers think. I think. And those people, people like me that actually care about humanity, who actually have empathy, want to hear the stories. Want to hear the stories of these victims. Want to hear about the lives of these victims and the traumas that they had to face and their family members have experience. Now, we don't want to see a movie about Brian Coburger. I know. I don't want to see it. I want to hear about these stories of these young lives lost, these young, beautiful lives lost. That's what I want to hear. But producers don't think that people will watch that.

[Nancy Grace]

Chris McDonough, you and I have investigated and tried hundreds, thousands of cases at this point. Who wants to go into the mind of Brian Kohberger and do a dramatization of him?

[Dave Mack]

That's a great question, Nancy. I mean, and isn't that the big, the big problem here in our society as a whole in terms of, you know, the access to social media, where we get Instant gratification. And we think in bits and bytes anymore, but we forget this one point. And you just raised it a couple of minutes ago. You know, this guy sat in that room post mortem experimenting on those bodies. Why is that important for the public to know? In terms of let's make a movie about this, it's crazy. We've lost our minds.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, Josh Coles wrote, I'm trying to think of an alternative. If you're like me, my mind is already raced forward about 20 steps. What's the best alternative? Is there a way to throw out the plea deal? I mean, the Lifetime movie and the actresses dancing around covered in blood. It's disgusting. I'm thinking about a way to make actual change, to do something. The only thing I can think of is to try to renege the deal, to void the deal. A, you can't have that prosecution's office in on it. That's impossible. Even if there are good lawyers within the office, it's too late. They're tainted by their leader. It'll have to be a fed or special prosecutor. But is there a hope? Is there a way, Josh, to get the plea deal voided?

[Dave Mack]

Yes, there is.

[Josh Colesrud]

The.

[Dave Mack]

There's two ways. You just mentioned one, which is a.

[Josh Colesrud]

Federal action, but there's a much more.

[Dave Mack]

Simple way, and that is through victims rights. Now, in Idaho, the prosecution is required.

[Josh Colesrud]

To go over and make sure that the victims understand the plea agreement and.

[Dave Mack]

That they've conferred with the victims.

[Josh Colesrud]

And here it's very obvious that that process did not happen in full.

[Dave Mack]

Because during the restitution hearing, the prosecution admitted on the record that it was their fault, that the proper restitution terms.

[Josh Colesrud]

Were not in the plea agreement.

[Dave Mack]

So that tells me that the victim's rights were violated.

[Josh Colesrud]

So the victims, on their own, through.

[Dave Mack]

Their attorney, can file a special action with the court demanding that the plea.

[Josh Colesrud]

Agreement be unraveled and the case be set for trial because of material misrepresentations by the prosecution and now by the defendant, Coburger, by not being honest about his finances and not having good faith about paying the restitution that they deserve.

[Nancy Grace]

Guys, I don't always like what Coles Rood has to say because he's typically defending someone. But he's right. There could be a way around this deal with the devil. But now will it happen? I am begging the feds to intervene. I am begging a court to investigate this and appoint an independent prosecutor. How can we stand by and hear these families pain and do Nothing? The current U.S. attorney for the Idaho district is Bart M. Davis. Repeat, Bart M. Davis. The number. 2083-3412-1120-8334-1211. You have the knowledge. Use it. Is there a way out of this? Deal with the devil. The local prosecutor struck with Brian Kohberger. Can we get Kohberger to trial? Now we remember an American hero. Border Patrol Agent Freddie Ortiz, US Department, Homeland Security. Killed in the line of duty after 13 years serving and protecting, leaving behind his grieving mother, American Hero Patrol Agent Freddie Ortiz. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye. This is an I heart podcast.