Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: "KOHBERGER SAYS I OWE THE VICTIMS NOTHING"

Date: October 31, 2025

Host: Nancy Grace

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the ongoing aftermath of the Idaho student murders committed by Bryan Kohberger, focusing on his post-arrest behavior, chilling lack of remorse, efforts to contest financial restitution to victims’ families, and the controversial plea deal that took the death penalty off the table. Special attention is given to the wounds inflicted on the victims—described as “experimental” rather than defensive—and interviews with forensic experts, victims’ families, and Idaho lawmakers contemplating changes to execution protocols. The tone is outraged, grieving, and unyielding in its demand for justice.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bryan Kohberger's Post-Murder Behavior and Mindset

• Normalcy Immediately After the Crimes

  • Kohberger reportedly showered, took selfies, attempted to shop at Costco, and later grabbed coffee at a grocery store in the immediate aftermath of murdering four students.
  • Nancy Grace contextualizes:

    "Who goes from a slaughterhouse where you murder four people to price shopping in Costco?" (08:45)

  • Psychologist analysis suggests this "switch" is reflective of a psychopathic personality with a non-responsive amygdala.

• Attempted Alibi Creation

  • Guests theorize Kohberger sought surveillance footage at public places to create an alibi.

    Eric Faddis: "Clearly he's trying to establish an alibi. See him all clean and crisp and bright and shiny here in Costco. Who could do that? Well, him." (13:45)

• Chilling Calmness and Calculation

  • Chris McDonough (former homicide detective):

    "He is consciously thinking about his appearance...the game of, you know, you're not going to catch me. And this goes toward his consciousness of guilt." (16:25)

2. Victims’ Families Confront Prosecutorial Decisions

• Goncalves Family’s Search for Answers

  • Kaylee Goncalves' sister, Olivia, directly confronted the prosecutor about the plea deal and autopsy photos:

    Nancy Grace: "She has to get on a plane at her own expense and fly to ask the prosecutor questions because she can't get answers about what happened to her sister. That's crying shame." (26:05)

  • Olivia viewed the autopsy images herself out of fear they could be leaked.

• Controversy Over Plea Deal

  • Family expresses dismay and betrayal over how the plea bargain was handled:

    Christy Goncalves: "They sent it at 4:53 pm...we lost our minds. We immediately emailed...and they said, yes, it was sent yesterday evening to the defense...He gave up within an hour of being given an opportunity to quit on these kids." (1:19:45)

• State's (In)Action Regarding Photo Leaks

  • Olivia Goncalves and other family members worry about autopsy photo leaks; a prison employee caught leaking unrelated jail video was not prosecuted due to lack of applicable statutes.

    "The point we're making today is nothing is going to become of that video being leaked because it wasn't a crime." (57:10)

3. "Experimental" vs. Defensive Wounds

• Redefining the Crime Scene

  • Initial reports framed the victims as asleep, but forensic reexamination reveals multiple wounds were not defensive but "experimental," inflicted deliberately to cause pain rather than to kill immediately.

    Olivia Goncalves: "Some of the wounds made to her sister Kelly were described as, quote, experimental. It could have presented as a defensive wound, but now the theory is they were experimental..." (36:40)

• Expert Explanation

  • Dr. Priya Banerjee, forensic pathologist, clarifies:

    "Very superficial, repeated wounds, we see that in torture cases...Experimental wounds are typically injuries created in a controlled setting—for instance, to study wound healing...But to you, Chris McDonough, that's not why experimental wounds were inflicted in this case, is it?" (39:10)

• Chilling Implication

  • Chris McDonough:

    "If those are post mortem wounds...you would expect to connect that either, a, to his fantasy or, b, to his learning for the next victim." (40:41)

4. Kohberger's Financial Remorse — or Lack Thereof

• Refusal of Restitution

  • Kohberger, through his attorneys, contests paying restitution to victims' families, arguing they were "compensated" by GoFundMe and had no "actual economic loss."

    Nancy Grace: "Even knowing that, he is now saying, I owe the victims and their families nothing." (46:30)

  • Susan Hendricks (reporter):

    "He's now saying, I owe the victims nothing. It's despicable." (47:15)

  • Eric Faddis (defense attorney) contextualizes the legal argument:

    "These travel expenses are not included...they already got paid then they didn't suffer an actual economic loss." (48:19)

• No ‘Son of Sam’ Law in Idaho

  • Sidney Sumner explains Kohberger could theoretically profit from his crimes in media or book deals, exploiting legal loopholes.

    "In Idaho, there is no Son of Sam law. The killer can profit off their crimes." (52:55)

  • Chris McDonough discusses the mechanics of criminal profit using a "strawman" setup to circumvent restrictions.

    "A strawman is set up like a shell corporation...and money is funneled bit by bit back to the defendant. That's how that works." (53:25)

5. Idaho Moves Toward Execution by Firing Squad

• Legislative Changes

  • Interview with Representative Bruce Skogg details Idaho's move to make firing squad the sole method for capital punishment, intending to ensure executions occur "humanely" and "timely."

    Rep. Skogg: "Firing squad is certain, it's humane and it's the best way to get the job done." (1:07:10) "Justice delayed is justice denied and that that's the truth." (1:17:05)

• Practicalities and Rationale

  • A failed lethal injection spurred legislative action. Firing squad is argued to be more humane (quicker, fewer botched events).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Nancy Grace on Kohberger's callousness:

  "After slaughtering them, leaving the scene, boiling himself in the shower, he goes to Costco to price shop." (02:10)

• Expert on psychopathy:

  Allison Paganelli: "Their amygdala doesn't function like the rest of us. They're not as scared of things as we are." (15:40)

• Chris McDonough's blunt assessment:

  "Balls the size of coconuts. That's how I would diagnose it, because this guy admits we know he did it." (16:05)

• Olivia Goncalves, on TikTok:

  "Some of the wounds...were described as experimental...because at some point he was inflicting wounds that any logical person would know wouldn't be fatal." (38:05)

• Nancy Grace on the justice system:

  "The families were told this is the deal. Like it or lump it, it was force fed, shoved down their throats. And as a crime victim myself, I don't like that..." (1:15:05)

• Representative Bruce Skogg on executions:

  "Firing squad is certain, it's humane and it's the best way to get the job done." (1:07:10)

Important Timestamps

• 08:45 – Discussion of Kohberger’s strange post-murder behavior
• 13:45 – Legal analyst: Kohberger’s intent to create an alibi
• 16:25 – Chris McDonough on "consciousness of guilt"
• 26:05 – Families’ frustration over lack of prosecutorial transparency
• 36:40 – Olivia Goncalves on “experimental wounds”
• 39:10 – Dr. Banerjee explains wound analysis
• 46:30 – Kohberger contests financial restitution
• 52:55 – Explanation of Idaho's lack of 'Son of Sam' law
• 57:10 – Discussion of jail surveillance and leak issues
• 1:07:10 – Idaho lawmaker on firing squad legislation
• 1:19:45 – Gonsalves family on discovering the plea deal

Conclusion

This episode spotlights the horror of the Idaho student murders and compounds it with frustration over the justice system’s processes and Kohberger’s stunning lack of remorse. Through forensic insight, family interviews, and legal debate, Nancy Grace and her guests drive home the enduring pain for victims’ loved ones and the difficult quest for closure—while also examining Idaho's hardline move toward the firing squad for capital cases.

The episode’s tone is relentless, angry, and profoundly empathetic to the victims and their families.