KOHBERGER TO SUE? DID HE ACT ALONE? DEMANDS BETTER JAIL?

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: KOHBERGER TO SUE? DID HE ACT ALONE? DEMANDS BETTER JAIL?

Release Date: February 6, 2026

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EPISODE OVERVIEW

In this episode, Nancy Grace explores the ongoing legal and psychological intrigue surrounding Bryan Kohberger, convicted for the brutal murders of four University of Idaho students. Grace and her panel unpack whether Kohberger acted alone, contend with new theories of a possible accomplice, discuss evidence both physical and emotional, and react to news of Kohberger's complaints about jail conditions and rumblings of a possible lawsuit.

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KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

1. Emotional Toll and Evidence from Kaylee Goncalves' Family

• [04:33] Grace shares a moving moment featuring Kaylee’s mother, Christy Goncalves, who finds her daughter's sweatshirt and a crucial Grub Truck ticket from the night of the murders.
  • Nancy Grace reflects on the emotional gravity:

    “Just watching this, I don't even hear her right now. It just makes my stomach hurt. And it takes me back to some probative evidence that could have been used at trial…” (04:33)

• Investigator Chris McDonough’s View:
  • [07:41]

    “She is embracing that sweatshirt just to smell her daughter gives us an understanding of a depth of pain that nobody should ever experience.” (07:41)

  • McDonough also raises concerns that the Grub Truck receipt, found on Kaylee, was not used as trial evidence, seeing this as an investigative shortfall.

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2. Did Kohberger Act Alone? Emerging Alternate-Suspect Theories

• Grace introduces growing online and legal speculation that Kohberger may not have acted alone ([10:44]).
• Howard Bloom (author of When the Night Comes Falling) adds nuance:
  • [17:38]

    “I'm not saying he acted alone. I'm saying the theory deserves attention… If you look at the devastation, this wasn't just a stabbing. This was a massacre…”

  • Bloom notes: 150+ stab wounds inflicted within 13 minutes, possible use of a second weapon, staging/cleanup of the scene, and lack of clear motive—suggesting these raise legitimate questions of a possible accomplice.

Panelists’ Counterarguments:

• Nancy Grace:
  • [18:48] (sarcastically)

    “So you're telling me, oh dear Lord in heaven…you're basing your theory on the fact that he's too skinny and scrawny to raise his arm 150 times?”

• Chris McDonough (Former Homicide Detective):
  • [22:03]

    “Based on…some of the evidence…Kohberger acted alone. I believe he straddled both of those girls…he blitzkrieged and attacked them.”

  • McDonough walks through the probable sequence of the attacks, pointing to forensic evidence.
• Dr. Bethany Marshall (Psychoanalyst):
  • [25:42]

    “He wanted the glory all for himself, right? Why would he share the moment of victory with another person?... That was his biggest achievement in his own life. It doesn't make sense.”

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3. Alternate Theories and Their Weaknesses

• Bloom persists: the number of wounds, hints of staging/cleanup, mystery of motive, and possibility Kohberger may have been an "accomplice" himself ([24:36]).
• Dylan Mortensen's Survivor Testimony
  • Both Grace and investigative reporter Sydney Sumner cite survivor Dylan Mortensen’s consistent statements describing a single assailant (“someone dressed in black, pretty tall, with bushy eyebrows,” [31:54]).
• Philip Dube, Defense Attorney, offers skepticism:
  • [33:10]

    “There is absolutely no way that this one scrawny man can take down four people merely because he has a knife…”

  • Argues for the “partner/accomplice” theory, suggesting the alleged partner is likely dead.

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4. Forensic Discussion: Was There More Than One Weapon?

• Dr. Kendall Crowns (Chief Medical Examiner):
  • [35:17]

    “With the description of the individuals that were killed, one of them has been possibly strangled and had her head kind of smashed…But the handle of the KA bar knife is actually quite thick and he could have used the actual knife that he was stabbing them with to also beat them…It’s easily done by one person.”

  • Stipulates that overlapping and chaotic wounds are not strong evidence for multiple attackers or weapons.
• Re: 150 Stab Wounds
  • Both Grace and panelists reference high-profile cases where women committed multiple stabbing murders (e.g., Jodi Arias), countering the notion that such violence must require multiple perpetrators ([41:31]).

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5. DNA Evidence and Investigative Lapses?

• Howard Bloom's Critique:
  • Questions why some DNA samples (e.g., glove in parking lot, stairwell) weren't further analyzed ([45:37]).
• Susan Hendricks (Investigative Reporter):
  • Responds that the state did attempt to match DNA and highlights the high-traffic nature of the house—a “party house”—making irrelevant DNA finds likely ([46:02]).

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6. Kohberger’s Jail Conditions and Lawsuit Speculation

• Nancy Grace: Outraged by Kohberger’s demands for better accommodations, stating,
  • [03:05]

    “You’re not getting the penthouse. Sweet, Kohberger. That’s not going to happen. Enjoy your gruel.”

• Discussion pivots to the “leaked jail video,” with speculation that Kohberger might sue the Idaho Department of Corrections for invasion of privacy ([47:46]).
  • Sidney Sumner notes:

    “He could sue IDOC…But Brian Coburger could come back and say that the prison owes him some kind of dam[ages]…”

  • Dr. Bethany Marshall:

    “All I see is power and control. If he can’t control the four victims that he slaughtered, now he's going to control the shoe in his jail cell.” (48:53)

  • Chris McDonough and Philip Dube both call the lawsuit idea “absurd,” noting that any civil deposition could force Kohberger to answer questions about the murders on record.

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MEMORABLE QUOTES & MOMENTS

• Nancy Grace (Opening):

  “You may have received A's in high school and college, but you're gonna be getting big D's in prison. Brian effing Kohberger. He is whining...The nutritional standards are not being upheld. What? I don't care. It’s like, bleh, don't care. He doesn't like broccoli. Get used to it.” (02:57)

• Chris McDonough (on the emotional impact)

  “The fact that she is embracing that sweatshirt just to smell her daughter gives us an understanding of a depth of pain that nobody should ever experience.” (07:41)

• Howard Bloom (on the amount of violence):

  “This wasn't just a stabbing. This was a massacre. The four students were stabbed over 150 times in totality. I mean, try raising your hand 150 times...” (17:38)

• Dr. Bethany Marshall (psychoanalytic insight):

  “He wanted the glory all for himself… Why would he share the moment of victory with another person?” (25:42)

• Nancy Grace (on legal tactics):

  “So now not only is there another co-defendant, but that co-defendant is dead. Killed by Brian Coburger. But we just haven't found his body yet. So you're really taking this all… You're running with it.” (34:03)

• Philip Dube (on Kohberger’s threat to sue):

  “The ultimate doomsday sanction could result, which is a dismissal of his case with prejudice.” (51:53)

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TIMESTAMPS FOR IMPORTANT SEGMENTS

• Kaylee Goncalves’ mother and lost evidence: 04:33 – 09:43
• Theories of an accomplice & “Was anyone else arrested?”: 10:44 – 14:06
• Howard Bloom expounds the “not alone” theory: 17:38 – 24:36
• Panel tackles plausibility of two assailants: 21:34 – 27:16
• Survivor Dylan Mortensen’s crucial eyewitness account: 31:17 – 32:50
• Forensic analysis with Dr. Kendall Crowns: 35:17 – 36:32; 41:05
• Evaluation of DNA evidence and party house context: 45:37 – 46:55
• Kohberger’s jail complaints and possible lawsuit: 47:46 – 51:53

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CONCLUSION

Nancy Grace and her expert panel vigorously debate whether Bryan Kohberger could have committed the University of Idaho murders alone, systematically deconstructing new defense-driven theories of an accomplice. The episode balances sharp legal insight, forensic reasoning, and the raw emotions of survivors and victims’ families. The overall consensus leans toward skepticism of the accomplice theory, reaffirming the idea that one individual—driven by control, rage, and possibly sexual motivation—could indeed have committed the atrocity solo. Meanwhile, the specter of Kohberger suing for jail “hardships” is met with scorn and dissected as another expression of his need for power and control.

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Podcast Tone:
True crime realism, emotionally charged, unsparing, and at times bitingly sarcastic, with a mix of victim advocacy and tough legal analysis.

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Transcript

[A]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[B]

Guaranteed Human support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com/disclosures this Sunday, iHeartRadio brings you live to Levi's Stadium in Santa Clara for the Super Bowl 60 tailgate concert presented by NetApp. It's the ultimate pre game party featuring an exclusive performance from Teddy Swims. Your front row experience will be on iHeartradio stations across the country and the free iHeartradio app and streaming live on Peacock this Sunday at 3:30 Eastern, 12:30 Pacific. Then after the concert, tune in to the Super Bowl 60 pregame show on NBC. You ever wonder how far an EV can take you on one charge? Well, most people drive about 40 miles a day, which means you can do all daily stuff no problem. Go to work, grab the kids at school, get the groceries and still have enough charge to visit your in laws in the next county. But they don't need to know that. And the best part? You won't have to buy gas at all. The way forward is electric. Explore EVs that fit your life at electricforall.org.

[A]

Sometimes all we want is more of the same. Like another round of golf played from a channel with 24. 7 coverage, another look at the garden and the deer as they pick their way through it, another Taco Tuesday followed by a Whatever's in the Fridge Wednesday. And to get more of the same, all we need is a little help with adaptable care Plans from qualified compassionate caregivers matched to your family's needs. Home Instead can help you and your passions. Stay home no matter what's on your horizon. Visit home instead online for a better what's next? Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Bryan Kohberger to sue. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Bryan Kohberger is suing somebody for money after he's convicted of murdering four people. He's suing. And tonight there is a growing sentiment, not by me, but by them, that Co Burger did not act alone. This as even in the last hours, Brian Kohberger is demanding he be moved to better accommodations. You're not getting the penthouse. Sweet coburger. That's not going to happen. Enjoy your gruel. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. You may have received A's in high school and college, but you're gonna be getting big D's in prison. Brian effing Kohberger. He is whining. I wish for the items to be called for when this something, something. The nutritional standards are not being upheld. What? I don't care. It's like, bleh, don't care. He doesn't like broccoli. Get used. All rhetoric aside regarding Brian Kohberger, in the last hours, Kelly Gonzalez's family posted and it is heart wrenching and I want you to see it. So I'm going through some of Kaylee's things and I just came across the sweatshirt that she was wearing that night. And in the pocket.

[B]

Is her grub.

[A]

Truck number 78 ticket. I've been looking for it. It's the first thing that I really found that I've been looking for. It was in the top of a box and. And when I looked in the pocket and I found that ticket, I was just. Takes you back to those hours. Those hours right before they had no idea what was going to happen to them. Terrible. That is Kelly Goncalves mother, Christy, who has joined us many, many nights actually holding and smelling the sweatshirt of Kelly Goncalves. And I gotta tell you something, when my daughter hugs me, it's not perfume. She just smells good. She smells like the outdoors. Kind of fresh air, sun and everything. Good. Just watching this, I don't even hear her right now. It just makes my stomach hurt. And it takes me back to some probative evidence that could have been used at trial if the prosecutor had any backbone of the Idaho students at that grubhub. Look, they're going out right now. Grub truck number 78, ticket there they are, and they're having so much fun. It's so super late at night, and they're just living life, you know, just having so much fun. With me is Chris McDonough. He is the star over at the Cold Case Foundation. He is a former homicide detective who has worked over 300 homicide cases. He is the star of the interview room on the YouTube channel where I found him. But for my purposes tonight, he has walked every square inch all around that King Road address to where the trucks were, the food trucks. And Chris, seeing Christy Gonsalves holding Kelly's sweatshirt, it's. I just feel broken in half. Broken in half, Chris.

[B]

You know, Nancy, this brings back so much, so many memories for many parents who have lost children, myself included. And the fact that she is embracing that sweatshirt just to smell her daughter gives us an understanding of a depth of pain that nobody should ever experience. And then when I shift into out from a personal experience to an investigator's hat, and she pulls out of the pocket the grubhub receipt, on that receipt is a time and why that receipt was not in evidence for me anyway, as an investigator, again, shows potentially some shortcomings with the totality of this investigation.

[A]

I was wondering, Chris McDonough, when you were going to bring that up. When I found out the receipt from that night, which is part of the timeline, was still in her pocket, I nearly fell over. But I want to show you something I carry around a lot of times, and we've been wall to wall trying to help our friend Savannah Guthrie. And these are my dad's shirts. Sometimes I just carry them around. Sometimes I sleep in them. It just kind of depends. And I can just feel when Christy Gonsalves is talking about her daughter, just that empty moment when the trial, or in this case, the cheap plea is over and everybody leaves and nobody's talking about it anymore, and nobody cares anymore. And there you are with that sweatshirt. Just. The silence is deafening for this family.

[B]

Yes. And it doesn't get any better, right, Nancy? You know, from personal experience of loss, they now have to learn the coping mechanisms to get them through the next birthday, the next, you know, item that they pull out of a box that was handed to them from the authorities, and everything turns into the next, you know, piece of where is my child? But there will never, ever be that personal hug that, mom, I love you, Dad, I love you. Hearing it, it's over. And so you learn how to cope with it. But that's as far as you can go as a parent. As in your circumstances, your fiance, you just have to empower yourself and then put it towards a positive end and hopefully great things will come out of it tonight.

[A]

A let me say unique. The as far as I'm concerned regarding the murders of four beautiful University of Idaho students. And in the backdrop of that analytical discussion, is Kohberger preparing himself to sue? Really? What does he want? Nine, $10 million? Over what? But tonight, did Kohberger act alone? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's the only one that got up in court and pled guilty. He's the only one that was prosecuted. But now a growing tide of legal eagles insist Kohberger did not act alone. I poo pooed it. When I would see it on Twitter and Insta and Facebook, I would discount it. But for some reason, there is a legion of legal eagles that say, yes, he had an accomplice, but I want you to see Lieutenant Darren Gilbertson with Idaho State Police as he approached Kohberger.

[B]

I feel like you probably know why we're here. We're detectives from Idaho and we're here because of the case in Moscow. And as soon as we mention that, then he, he stopped and he said, I don't want to talk anymore.

[A]

From our friends at abc, that is Lieutenant Darren Gilbertson describing what happened when he first approached Kohberger following the murders. The moment he identified himself as I'm from Idaho. I am from the Idaho State Police. Kohberger immediately said, I don't want to talk. I don't want to talk. So, Philip Dubay joining me, veteran trial lawyer out of LA County. Philip, you know, when a cop asks me a question, I respond. I don't call my lawyer in.

[B]

Why? Depends. I mean, most people ask for a lawyer if they feel whatever they're going to say is going to incriminate themselves. Even if you believe that, getting the truth off your chest might help you. In fact, prosecutors can use whatever you're saying to tailor guilt based on their narrative of what happened. So rather than say anything, you should remain quiet and silent to keep all your options open so that you can review all the evidence in its totality and decide what, if anything, you should say at trial on the witness stand. But not to cops.

[A]

I don't know. But when I see a cop approach, I don't hit the gas and take off 110 miles per hour. I don't try to get away. I don't try to avoid the questions. And I certainly don't worry about a potential jury trial. So you know I'm taking everything you say with a box of salt. Philip Dube now the theory that Brian Kohberger did not act alone. What Before Kohberger removed from his parents Albrightsville, Pennsylvania home, he asked officers a single question. Was anyone else arrested? Though many believe Kohberger asked out of concern for his family after the late night raid, Bloom believes Kohberger wanted to know if his accomplice was already in custody.

[B]

Support for the show comes from Public the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc, SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comdisclosures Now I'd.

[A]

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[B]

You live to Levi's Stadium in Santa Clara for The Super Bowl 60 tailgate concert. Presented by NetApp. It's the ultimate pre game party featuring an exclusive performance from Teddy Swims. Your front row experience will be on iHeartradio stations across the country and the free iHeartradio app and streaming live on Peacock this Sunday at 3:30 Eastern, 12:30 Pacific. Then after the concert, tune in to the Super Bowl 60 pregame show on NBC. You ever wonder how far an EV can take you on one charge? Well, most people drive about 40 miles a day, which means you can do all daily stuff no problem. Go to work, grab the kids at school, get the groceries and still have enough charge to visit your in laws in the next county. But they don't need to know that. And the best part, you won't have to buy gas at all. The way forward is electric. Explore EVs that fit your life at electricforall.org.

[A]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Leading the throng of legal eagles that insist Kohberger did not act alone is renowned author Howard Bloom. He wrote the definitive book on the Idaho when the Night Comes Falling, A Requiem for the Idaho Student Murders. Howard, explain yourself.

[B]

Well, first let me offer up a caveat to what you just said. I'm not saying he acted alone. I'm saying the theory deserves attention. And it deserves attention after all the documents we've seen in recent days, which include an analysis of what happened by the defense's own witness, Dr. Brent Turvey. He raises many of the questions that I came about independently. If you look at the devastation, this wasn't a just a stabbing. This was a massacre. The four students were stabbed over 150 times in totality. I mean, try raising your hand 150 times and this happens. The police say within a 13 minute.

[A]

Wait a minute, hold on, hold on, hold on. Can I see the photo of Bryan Kohberger thinking he looks all buff, showing off all of his muscles? This guy worked out all the time and was constantly flexing himself. So you're telling me, oh dear Lord in heaven, I asked for it. I get it.

[B]

A skinny kid, but whatever.

[A]

So you don't see those muscles on his. He's got some guns going on right there. So you're telling me you're basing your theory on the fact that he's too skinny and scrawny to raise his arm 150 times.

[B]

I mean, women do that for an.

[A]

Hour all the time.

[B]

And two floors of a house in the darkness. And also both the prosecution and defense have said that there's a possibility that another weapon was used, that Kelly received wounds from another weapon, that there was. They also are both agree that there is a possibility that there was staging, that the victims were covered up with a comforter and they move them around that also that there was a cleanup afterwards. But the prosecution is not denying that that's a possibility, too. I think all these elements as that are laid out by the defense statements raise questions that need to be looked at. I think we're seeing things when we look at the new evidence, when released that really don't fit into the timeline.

[A]

You know, I really believe Susan Hendricks, who's joining us, journalist, investigative reporter, author of the Hill My Descent into the Double Murder in Delphi. Susan, maybe a UFO flew over and little green men transported down into the King Road address and murdered them along with Coburger. Maybe that happened. Is it possible? Yes, it's possible. Is it probable? No, it's not probable. You know, Howard Bloom is renowned as an investigative journalist, as an author, but I think he's way off. And I think that somehow this alternate suspect theory got planted in his head by Kohberger's defense. I mean, other than him saying he couldn't raise his arm 150 times. I've raised my arm 35 times while he was talking. Okay. So no, he's saying, was there a cleanup? Well, based on the crime scene photos that I saw that I refuse to publish because of their gory nature, out of respect to the victim's families, I didn't see much of a cleanup going on. I think he's been infected by the defense bug. Yeah. I go back to the Odinist theory, Nancy, when you can argue anything in public, online, but in court, and of course, the expert witness of the defense, it's going to be in there that, yes, there could be a second person, a coworker. He studied serial killers, so he may have thought about this for months, maybe even years. What he's going to say was anyone else arrested?

[B]

I believe he acted alone.

[A]

Yes, there was bloodshed. It's horrific considering the amount of times he stabbed people. But I believe the prosecution would approve.

[B]

That, that it is doable by one person. Sadly.

[A]

Straight out to special guest Joining us, Chris McDonough, homicide detective, former homicide detective. What do you make of the theory that Bloom is asserting that Kohberger had an accomplice, or maybe Kohberger was the accomplice, not the perp in chief.

[B]

Well, I think the first thing that needs obvious consideration is the defense is going to hire experts that are going to say what they want them to say, and they're going to create that, you know, those theories that those roads are going to run down. However, I've examined all of the photographs that are, and I've come to my own conclusions that based on, you know, some of the evidence that we can see is Kohberger acted alone. And there's a whole bunch of reasons behind that. I believe he straddled both of those girls who were intoxicated, sound asleep in the bed, and he blitz greed and attacked them. And we used to have a terminology that said the knife went on full auto because of the rage. And then when you take that into Coburger's personality type, he sees people like bugs. He does not see them with empathy or anything like that. And then while he was killing both of those girls who were struggling and fighting backwards, that is, they were kicking from underneath the blankets, the blood evidence showed that. I believe at that point his sheath became, you know, dislodged from wherever it was. And because Zanna had come in and come into the room, when Zanna got in the room, he chased her into her room. And the blood evidence showed, because there's blood on the doorway going into the room, I believe he caught her, stabbed her, and she fell against the wall between the bed and the nightstand. And it was at that point Ethan woke up on his right elbow, leaned forward, and Coburger gave him a quick coup de grace. Ethan was out probably within six or seven seconds, even also trying to kick. And Zanna began to fight. And that's where he straddled her on the ground against, you know, her chair, where she was subsequently found. And that was brutal. So two people doing this. I personally do not believe the evidence showed that.

[A]

Okay, now let me understand this. This all tipped off, started, ignited in your mind Howard Bloom, author of when the Night Comes Falling because at the time of arrest, Kohberger said, who else was arrested? That's what got you going?

[B]

No, not at all. What got me going was were the crime scene photographs, the discussion of a cleanup, the discussion of the number of wounds, the Bill Thompson talking about a second weapon, and are still trying to grapple with the question of a motive. Why would he have picked that house? The defense still wonders why the prosecution was going to say well, he just picked it at random. Well, nothing Kohberger did that night seems randomish. He had planned the event, he had turned off his phone. He had obviously brought some cleanup materials. Either he was wearing baggies or a suit to cover the blood. And yet he picks a house where there are a number of cars. I think it's five cars parked in front, there's a door dash delivery. Why does he go there? Why does he go up to the third floor? I think there was a motive involved and the motive involved someone else. And as you said before, maybe Kohberger was the accomplice. Maybe he was helping someone who had a genuine motive commit the perfect crime.

[A]

To Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us, renowned psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction. She's the author of Deal Breaker. You can see her now on Peacock and you can find her at drbethanymarshall.com Dr. Bethany I find it very, very difficult believe that anyone would go along with Brian Kohberger's zany theory to go murder horribly, horribly, horrifically murder four innocent students. He didn't even know who is he going to rope into that scheme? Let's just think about that for a moment. You know, Nancy, he, he wanted the glory all for himself, right? Why would he share the moment of victory with another person? I mean, as I've said so many times on your show, he wanted to triumph over and dominate these beautiful young students who were having the kind of life he could never hope to have. He had to blot them out of existence because he could never achieve what they achieved. He wanted to insert himself into their lives and they probably didn't even have the time of day for him. I mean, metaphorically. It's not like he really maybe contacted them or maybe he did on social media and they didn't get back. So why would he want to bring in another co conspirator to blot out their lives when that was his biggest achievement in his own life? It doesn't make sense.

[B]

Support for the show comes from public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comdisclosures Now I'd.

[A]

Like to introduce you to Meaningful Beauty, the famed skincare brand created by iconic supermodel Cindy Crawford. It's her secret to absolutely gorgeous skin. Meaningful Beauty makes powerful and effective skin care simple and it's loved by millions of women. It's formulated for all ages and all skin tones and types and it's designed to work as a complete skin care system, leaving your skin feeling soft, smooth and nourished. I recommend starting with Cindy's full regimen which contains all five of her best selling products including the Amazing Youth Activating Melon Serum. This next generation serum has the power of melonleaf Stem cell technology. It's melon leaf stem cells encapsulated for freshness and released onto the skin to support a visible reduction in the appearance of wrinkles. With thousands of glowing five star reviews, why not give it a try? Subscribe today and you can get the Amazing Meaningful Beauty system for just $49.95. That is includes our introductory five piece system, free gifts, free shipping and a 60 day money back guarantee. All of that available at meaningful beauty.com.

[B]

This Sunday iheartradio brings you live to Levi's Stadium in Santa Clara for the Super Bowl 60 tailgate concert presented by NetApp. It's the ultimate pregame party featuring an exclusive performance from Teddy Swim. Your front row experience will be on iHeartradio stations across the country and the free iHeartradio app and streaming live on Peacock this Sunday at 3:30 Eastern, 12:30 Pacific. Then after the concert, tune in to the Super Bowl 60 pregame show on NBC. You ever wonder how far an EV can take you on one charge? Well, most people drive about 40 miles a day which means you can do all daily stuff no problem. Go to work, grab the kids at school, get the groceries and still have enough charge to visit your in laws in the next county. But they don't need to know that and the best part, you won't have to buy gas at all. The way forward is electric. Explore EVs that fit your life at electricforall.org.

[A]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

[B]

I feel like you probably know why we're here. We're just detectives from Idaho, and we're here because of the case in Moscow. And as soon as we mentioned that, then he stopped and he said, I don't want to talk anymore.

[A]

From abc. He slaughtered them. I don't care why he did it. I don't care about his motive. They're never coming home. And they died a horrible death.

[B]

And what Brian's about to understand is that his virginity is being traded for half a cigarette and that his mother had better pack some commissary orders so that he has items to trade.

[A]

Author Howard Bloom insisting tonight Bryan Kohberger did not act alone. But I'd like to direct everyone's attention to what Dylan Mortensen, who survived Kohberger's murder rampage. What she said about the attacker. Listen.

[B]

And then all of a sudden I heard walking up, I heard a scream, and she ran upstairs because she. I saw someone. That's what I'm pretty sure she said. Someone's here.

[A]

And she screamed and just ran downstairs.

[B]

And I called for her name, but.

[A]

I jumped up and locked my door.

[B]

Because I was so scared.

[A]

And then I heard someone in the.

[B]

Bathroom and I heard her crying. And I heard some guys say that, you're gonna be okay. I'm gonna help you.

[A]

Susan Hendricks, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't she describe one assailant? She does. She described someone dressed in black, pretty tall, described him as a basketball player.

[B]

Physique with bushy eyebrows.

[A]

Sydney Sonner, joining me, Crime Stories investigative reporter. I want to reiterate what Dylan Mortensen said that night, and I want to make sure Howard Bloom and Philip Dube's earpieces are working. Sidney Sumner, what was said at the time by Dylan Mortensen. Mortensen described hearing and seeing a man walking around in her home. She at some point hears one of her roommates say, someone's here. And then she overhears a male voice saying, I'm going to help you. At this point, she steps out of her room trying to understand what's going on, and she sees this man walk past her. And she describes him as wearing all black and a mask that shows just his eyes. And she speaks with the officer, trying to get a rough description of this man, taller than her, lanky. That's who she sees in her home. There's no mention of a second person. Philip Dube, veteran trial lawyer, defense attorney. I mean, Philip Dubay. This is what you do for a living. You find somebody else to blame.

[B]

There is absolutely no way that this one scrawny man can take down four people merely because he has a knife. Look at him. At a minimum, one person probably could have knocked him down, maybe somehow wrested the knife away from him, kicked him, punched him, held him, and prevented all that carnage. So obviously he had a confederate on Saint Mount because he knew that they were going to be met by multiple people in that house. I mean, let's face it, this is a reputed party house, and there's going to be at least four or five people living there, and you have to be prepared. So what do you do? You bring a co conviction confederate with you to get the job done. And I think the reason why we haven't heard from that co confederate, if you will, is because that person is likely a fifth victim, as dead men tell no tale.

[A]

Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait. Please put him up. So now not only is there another co defendant, but that co defendant is dead. Killed by Brian Coburger. But we just haven't found his body yet. So you're really taking this all. You're running with it. So you think, okay, you know, can we deal with reality? Let me go to Dr. Kendall Crowns. Joining us, chief medical examiner, Tarrant County. That's Fort Worth. Never a lack of business in the morgue there. He is an esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at tcu, and he's the star of the hit podcast Mayhem in the morgue. Dr. Kendall crowns. With this number of wounds, okay, 150 all in, we think, because as you've told me many times, knife wounds can overlap on a victim to the point where it's like stabbing jello. You can't really tell how many times it's been stabbed due to the movable nature of human flesh. How could you possibly tell that more than one weapon was used?

[B]

So with the stab wounds, sometimes you can tell that if it's a single edge or a double edge and get an idea of different type of knives being used. But the problem with stab wounds is they can look very similar. So different knives may leave the same injuries. Now, with the description of the individuals that were killed, one of them has been possibly strangled and had her head kind of smashed and hit several times in the head, fractured with skull. That could have been done with a KA bar knife. The handle of the KA bar knife is actually quite thick and he could have used the actual knife that he was stabbing them with to also beat them as well as he was stabbing them. So to me, I think all those wounds could have happened in a very short period of time. It's fairly easy to stab someone and then he can be switching up, hitting them with his fists, hitting him with the handle of the knife as well. Giving the blunt force injuries that's described on one of the victims, I think that it's easily. You could have him shifting up how he's stabbing and hitting them and then it's easily done by one person. Could it be done by two people with different weapons? Stab wounds are a little hard to differentiate as far as types of weapons.

[A]

So back to you, Howard Bloom. And I've yet to get to the DNA issue and the only fact that is somewhat disturbing to me is I think the prosecutor was just so happy to just wrap this up with a bow and get rid of the case. That's disturbing to me. And the thought that there could be a second assailant, he just doesn't want to be bothered with that. I do not want an assailant walking free. I want Kohberger to go down, but if he had help, I want that person behind bars for the rest of their life or the death penalty. That said, nothing has convinced me at all that there are two assailants. Why is it beyond the realm of possibility that Kohberger did use two weapons?

[B]

The idea that he carried two weapons in seems to me a bit absurd. But also the whole two weapon theory, that's not mine. That's Bill Thompson, the prosecutor in the case said there's a very good possibility that two weapons were used. Two weapons, to me, 150 knife wounds that leads to there being two suspects. Also staging of the bodies, cleaning up afterwards, the lack of any sort of motive, all these pieces come together. Not to say that there was another accomplice, but that raises the possibility that needs to be explored also, as you pointed out quite clearly, and there was a rush to judgment in this case, Everyone involved wanted this whole case to disappear. They couldn't wait to tear down the house. They couldn't wait to settle the case. Let's try to get some real answers. They even made their. They accepted the settlement without having any kind of allocution. Trying to get the answers to where the knife is. At least I say there are mysteries that still exist there. And I think we owe responsibility to the victims and to the taxpayers of Idaho. Who funded this investigation to try to get to the bottom of things? I don't know.

[A]

On location of your emergency.

[B]

Hi.

[A]

Something is happening in our house. We don't know what.

[B]

What is the address of the emergency?

[A]

What is the rest of the address?

[B]

Oh, Kings Road.

[A]

Okay, and is that a house or an apartment? It's a house. Can you repeat the address to make sure that I have it right? I'll talk to you guys. We're.

[B]

We live at the light. So we're next to them.

[A]

This guy who slaughtered who ripped apart four beautiful coeds. Ripped them apart with a military KA bar knife. That guy is whining about his broccoli and the other inmates.

[B]

Here's a call coming in. Brian, this is not a hotel.

[A]

One thing we have to address in this theory that Bryan Kohberger did not act alone. I don't buy it. Nothing has convinced me otherwise yet. But believe me, if there is another assailant, I want them behind bars. That is why I feel that we have to examine it. Does it amount to anything? Maybe not, but still we have to examine it. I want to talk about not only the 150 stab wounds and Howard Bloom's assertion one person and could not do that. I mean. Wait, wait just a minute. Susan Hendricks, don't you recall the case of a female murdering a male with 100 plus stab wounds during some crazy sex play? Remember that? Oh, yes, yes, I believe it is possible here. And clearly we've seen it in other cases as well. And by the way, the two weapons, I think it was the back of the knife and the blade. I think that's what the prosecutor meant. What do you mean? With Kaylee, she had some injuries that may have been. She was injured by the back of the knife toward in her facial area and her teeth. That explains a lot. Okay. Dr. Kendall crowns hearing Susan Hendricks explanation the back or the hilt of the knife being used, would that make a difference in your analysis at all?

[B]

So the back of the hilt of the knife being used. To me it could go along with the injuries you're seeing the blunt source injuries. And also it could be the knife being driven in all the way to the hilt being a very deep stab wound, leaving injuries as well. So to me this all goes along with the fact that it's a single individual causing all these wounds. They just switch up what they're doing with their one weapon.

[A]

You know, I believe her name was Bryn Specher. Susan Hendricks, who was convicted of stabbing her boyfriend over 100 times. And then of course there's Jodi Arias, who stabbed Travis Alexander 30 plus times and didn't have a problem with it at all. But for some reason, Howard Bloom, you seem to think that while these two women could perform, could murder with a knife stabbing over and over and over, you don't think Kohberger could do it.

[B]

Well, the cases you're talking about involves just one victim here. We're talking about four different victims on two floors of the house in darkness. And we know that at least two of them fought back. And the prosecution itself has raised the possibility of a second weapon. All these pieces come together, I think, to raise the possibility that there might well have been another assailant added onto the motive, added on to Kohberger's statement. Was anyone else arrested? It raises a lot of doubts. And to use Dylan Mortensen as a witness, well, her testimony has been very mercurial. It's changed throughout the many interviews she's given with the police. I mean, I feel for her. She's a victim in all this, but at the same time, she is not the most reliable witness.

[A]

Put him up. Howard Bloom, you've got a nerve saying Dylan Mortensen was not a reliable witness. She barely survived by the skin of her teeth as she described one assailant.

[B]

She said she saw one assailant. She said she saw one man in black. At one point she said he was carrying a vacuum. At another point she said, I was really too drunk to figure out what's happening. And your reliable witness just also happened to wait eight hours, eight hours before calling the police. And then she thought they were unconscious. Other times she said she saw blood. So that is your reliable witness.

[A]

Okay, straight back to you, Chris Madonna, could you shed some light on the theory that there were two assailants now that you've heard where Bloom is coming from?

[B]

Sure. That's. You know, one of the questions that's not being asked is what's in Brian Coburger's system that evening? One of the last homicides I worked was a single individual that had slaughtered some folks. And the knife went on full auto. There were hundreds of stab wounds. And as the doc has shed and as Susan was reported that that knife, that K bar knife, the back of the hilt of that knife, I believe was utilized. And the blood evidence shows it on Kaylee excessively as well as Zanna excessively. And that's probably the two weapon theory here. What we're not asking though, is what was going on in Brian Coburger's system. We know what the Toxicology results are for the victims. They were incapacitated, they were sleeping. But Bryan Kohberger, in that eight hour time that was just brought up, came back to the scene to see his work that morning. And if in fact this was a two perpetrator problem, whether not the sharpest tools in the shed, because somebody came up with the idea of leaving the knife sheath there.

[A]

So not just one idiot, but two. Yeah, that's. That's kind of hard to take in. So, Howard Bloom, you also point out DNA on the stairwell and on a glove. I believe that Chris McDonough spotted the glove. Did I? At the time, out in the parking lot. And I believe, Chris, you're the one that showed it to police. So I guess, Howard Bloom, you're using that as fodder for your two perp theory, the DNA?

[B]

No, I'm raising the question, why wasn't that DNA analyzed? Why wasn't the prosecution and the Idaho State Police going through the trouble, really just taking the time to put this through the DNA file and try to find out who it belonged to? It seems that when you don't want to know the answers to questions, they didn't ask them.

[A]

Susan Hendricks, isn't it true that the state tried to get a DNA match on that speck of DNA? And regarding the handrail, that could have been anybody. This was a party house that was in and out of the house. But didn't they try to get a DNA match? Yes, and I always go back, I know to Delphi because I know so much about that case. But there was some DNA of unknown people on the girl's clothes. Meaning if you're around anyone, it could show, as you said, it was a party house. It could have been someone in that homes. Wait a minute. Look at the grubhub truck. They're hugging people and talking to people. That's very, very easy to transfer DNA right there. So my point is, Howard Bloom said, why didn't they try to find out? They did try to find out, didn't they?

[B]

Absolutely did.

[A]

And they settled. The defense is now trying to try it in the court of public opinion, and I will say online that people who believe there was someone else there really believe it, and they're sticking with.

[B]

It no matter what the evidence shows. Tell me exactly what's going on.

[A]

One of our. One of the roommates has passed out and she was drunk last night and she.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Oh, and they saw some man in their house last night.

[B]

Yikes.

[A]

And are you with the patient?

[B]

Okay. I need someone to Keep the phone.

[A]

Stop passing it around. Can I just tell you what happened? Pretty much what is going on currently? Is someone passed out right now?

[B]

I don't really know, but pretty much.

[A]

At 4:00am Okay, I need to know what's going on right now. If someone is passed out, can you find that out?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I'll come. Come on, you gotta go check.

[A]

Now I'm hearing Brian Kohberger can sue Sydney Sumner.

[B]

Sue who?

[A]

Well, he could sue idoc. That short video of him in his jail cell. The IDOC did trace that leak to a specific person who resigned and did not face any kind of punishment for leaking that photo. But Brian Coburger could come back and say that the prison owes him some kind of dam. Letting that get through the cracks into the public. Okay, this is totally bass ackwards. Dr. Bethany. Look at him. Look how red his hands are from cleaning things. There he is cleaning a shoe like he's been out in the mud. He hasn't been anywhere. He's obsessively cleaning and rearranging his shelves. So now he's going to sue because somebody leaked this? What damage did it do him? He's already a four time convicted killer. Don't you have to hurt someone's reputation? How's that going to hurt his reputation? It's already ruined, Nancy. All I see is power and control.

[B]

If he can't control the four victims.

[A]

That he slaughtered, now he's going to.

[B]

Control the shoe in his jail cell.

[A]

I mean, that's what I see. You know, Nancy, the reason I do not think that he acted with another person is that I believe this was a sexually motivated crime. I believe he was sexually excited while he committed. The CR over the 150 stab wounds was something that he. Sadism and sexuality and arousal were all fused in his mind in some kind of way. So why would he share that glory with another perpetrator? That's something that somebody does alone. Ah, I see. What you're saying is coming home, I get it. He would never share all the glory with somebody else. So the fact to you, Chris McDonough, that he would sue over the leaked video, it's absurd.

[B]

Yeah. And you know Nancy, I. I want to be the first to advocate that you run the depositions. Because you know, If I was ISP or the DA's office, et cetera, I would want one of my own team sitting there during those initial deposition periods. And the first question I would ask them is go down that line. So exactly how did you do this, Brian? And so I think this is absurd, but it's consistent with his behavior. Again, he sees this whole process and he sees people, as the doc has pointed out, power, control and dominance. And he looks at people as bugs and he doesn't see them as human beings like we do.

[A]

You know, that's a really good point. Philip Dube, Veteran trial lawyer if he does follow through and sue over this leaked video we're showing right now, he can be called. It's not like a criminal trial where you Dubai can hide behind the fifth Amendment right to remain silent. The other side, the respondent can put him on as the first witness and cross examine him as a hostile witness. Of course they could.

[B]

And they could also summon him to a video conference room to do his deposition and they can sit him down under oath and digress away from his precious tort claim for invasion of privacy in his jail cell, where, by the way, he has no expectation of privacy even constitutionally or in tort. And they will drill him on every single crime fact that the public would love to know about. And if he refuses to answer a question, counsel can go into court and get sanctions and compel him to respond. And if he doesn't, under Idaho law, the ultimate doomsday sanction could result, which is a dismissal of his case with prejudice.

[A]

We wait as justice unfolds and we remember an American hero, Deputy Sheriff Rick Haggard, Lee County Sheriff's Department, Mississippi killed in the line of duty and leaving behind behind a grieving wife and daughters American hero Deputy Sheriff Rick Haggard, Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye friend.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

So good. Your bill, ladies.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Don't be silly. You don't be silly.

[B]

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[B]

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