'LAST DANCE' TEEN GIRL DEAD ON CRUISE, SPOTTED ON VIDEO JUST BEFORE MURDER

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: 'LAST DANCE' TEEN GIRL DEAD ON CRUISE, SPOTTED ON VIDEO JUST BEFORE MURDER
Date: January 30, 2026

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Overview

In this gripping episode, Nancy Grace dives deep into the mysterious death of Anna Kepner, a teenage cheerleader found dead on a cruise ship. The show examines shocking new evidence, including video footage of Anna joyfully dancing with her grandparents just hours before her murder, and scrutinizes the leads, suspects, family reactions, and discrepancies in the investigation. Through interviews with experts, investigative reporters, and the videographer who unknowingly captured Anna's "Last Dance," the episode unpacks the growing suspicions around her family, especially her stepbrother, and the troubling lack of answers from authorities.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The "Last Dance" Video and Initial Discovery

• Source of "Last Dance" Video (03:52-06:07):

  • Guest Nick Giddens, who runs the TikTok account NickCapo609, filmed Anna dancing with her grandparents at the cruise’s send-off party, hours before her body was found.

  • Nick didn’t realize Anna’s significance in the video until after the cruise, when viewers pointed out she was the girl killed on the ship. He reposted, drawing attention to the case.

    “I posted the video that day, November 2nd ...someone commented, 'that's the girl that got killed.' And I went back and watched it... It shows her, happy, with her grandparents."
    — Nick Giddens (04:35)

  • Nancy highlights the power of such footage in humanizing victims and reconstructing timelines, wondering if the suspect (Anna’s stepbrother) appears in the footage.

• Mood of the Cruise & Dangers (06:51-09:24):

  • Spencer Ehrenfeld, "the cruise lawyer", notes the fun and party atmosphere on Carnival cruises, but also the inherent risk because the guest list includes total strangers with potentially dark backgrounds.

    “They let everybody on the ship. So who knows who is in this line dance with this poor young lady.”
    — Spencer Ehrenfeld (08:45)

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Circumstances of the Crime & The "Infantile" Concealment

• Body Discovery (11:50-14:24):

  • Anna was last seen at dinner feeling ill, left alone to her room.

  • Her absence went unnoticed by her family until the next morning, ~18 hours later.

  • A cleaner discovered her body stuffed under a bed, concealed with life vests and a missing bedsheet. The exact state of her clothing is unknown.

    “(The maid) notices a pile of life jackets stuffed underneath. Removing the life jackets, she discovers the missing sheet wrapped around Anna’s body.”
    — Chantel Hudson (11:50)

• "Infantile" Concealment Discussion (15:34-20:17):

  • Forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan points to the childish, panicked way her body was hidden as evidence the perpetrator may be young and unsophisticated.

  • The use of available objects (life vests, ship stateroom hiding spot) was likely a desperate, unsophisticated attempt to delay discovery.

    “Whoever did this probably was young and panicked…like in a child's mind, what do you do when somebody gets hurt? You hide them… hoping nobody's going to find them.”
    — Dr. Sue Kornbluth (22:53)

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Focus on Family: Supervision, Alibis & Suspicions

• Parental Supervision and Behavior (09:45-10:55, 27:28-29:31):

  • Reports suggest Anna and other teens may have had access to alcohol and were left unsupervised in their own room.

  • The cruise line denies serving minors, but experts say teens can easily access alcohol.

    “There's 101 ways someone can get booze on a cruise… I would bet you the toxicology’s going to come back with alcohol.”
    — Spencer Ehrenfeld (10:55)

• The Stepbrother as Main Suspect (23:56-25:16):

  • Video evidence reportedly shows Anna entering her room alone, then followed by her younger brother and her older stepbrother.

  • The younger brother later leaves alone, and Anna is never seen again alive. The stepbrother remains in the room for hours.

    “Anna doesn’t leave the room and the stepbrother doesn’t leave the room for hours. In fact, Anna never leaves the room.”
    — Nancy Grace (24:02)

• Custody Hearings & Parental Reactions (25:16-26:47):

  • Stepbrother’s biological parents call him a suspect; his mother’s texts show anticipation of potential charges pending autopsy results.

  • The specificity and volume of cruise ship CCTV and keycard tracking should allow a precise reconstruction of movements and events.

    “They have high-definition CCTV footage ... and electronic key cards... so they can piece this entire thing together.”
    — Spencer Ehrenfeld (25:59)

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Autopsy Findings & Forensic Evidence

• Cause of Death: Arm Bar Asphyxiation (28:37-31:02):

  • Anna died from asphyxiation via an “arm bar”—pressing the forearm against the neck to suffocate by compressing the windpipe, not the arteries.

  • Forensic discussion covers possible contusions and cartilage fractures, and whether furniture was involved in the struggle.

    “You’re compressing the larynx... I’ll be interested to see if the OCME... notes trauma to all of the cartilaginous bodies, the cartilage in the trachea…”
    — Joseph Scott Morgan (29:41)

• No Charges Yet; Behavior After the Crime (31:02-37:02):

  • The stepbrother, after the body’s discovery, is described as unable to speak and is rushed to a psychiatric facility, claiming amnesia about the night.

  • Discussion around whether he’s truly traumatized, malingering, or advised to “plead the Fifth.”

    “Everything’s been fine. He could walk, he could talk, he dressed himself, he went to the breakfast buffet. But then the investigators showed up and suddenly he can’t function.”
    — Nancy Grace (35:28)

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Family Priorities and "Bad Optics"

• Damage Control Over Grief (32:25-41:08):

  • A series of text exchanges between the stepbrother’s parents demonstrate their overwhelming priority is damage control for their son’s reputation, not grief for Anna.

  • Discussion of how quickly the family acted to shield the stepbrother’s identity and avoid public speculation.

  • Nancy and guests are critical of how little emphasis is placed on finding Anna’s killer.

    “The child is dead. Anna Kettner is dead ... I don't quite get why the focus is on protecting the privacy of the stepbrother as opposed to apprehending their daughter's killer.”
    — Nancy Grace (40:41)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the timeline of Anna’s disappearance:

  • “She was last seen at dinner around 6:30pm the night before and nobody was alarmed wondering where she was until breakfast the next day around 9am.”
    — Sydney Sumner (28:21)

• On supervision of teens on cruise ships:

  • “It's kind of like letting your child walk around Times Square in New York City at 2 in the morning. No parent would ever do that. But they seem to do this on cruise ships…”
    — Spencer Ehrenfeld (27:28)

• On the family’s post-murder reaction:

  • “Grief for Anna’s loss is barely discussed... Otherwise, the focus lies on their son. Chantelle Hudson never mentioning feelings on her stepdaughter's murder.”
    — Chantel Hudson (40:21)

• Critical view on why no charges:

  • “Why are you not climbing up on the rooftops…screaming ‘I want to find out who did this to my child?’”
    — Joseph Scott Morgan (39:23)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:52-06:07 – Nick Giddens describes filming Anna’s “Last Dance” and realizing its significance
• 09:24-10:55 – Reports of unsupervised teens/alcohol on cruise and questions of supervision
• 11:50-14:24 – Discovery of Anna’s concealed body, condition, and immediate aftermath
• 15:34-20:17 – Discussion on the “infantile” concealment and its forensic implications
• 24:02 – Timeline reconstruction using cruise ship video surveillance
• 25:16-26:47 – Parental text messages and stepbrother as suspect
• 28:21 – Last seen alive and body discovery timeline: 18-hour window
• 29:41-31:02 – Forensic explanation of “arm bar” asphyxiation
• 32:25-41:08 – Family’s damage control, “bad optics,” and lack of public grief

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Conclusion: Ongoing Questions and What Happens Next

• The case remains unsolved, with no official charges filed. The family’s behavior, the stepbrother’s convenient amnesia, and the wealth of cruise ship video footage leave more questions than answers.
• The experts highlight the power of surveillance and forensic evidence to eventually tell the full story, but are deeply troubled by the parental focus on their son's privacy over justice for Anna.
• Nancy Grace closes by urging listeners with any information, no matter how trivial, to come forward, believing that the popular interest and digital evidence could help crack the case.

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If you have information about this case:
Call 754-703-2000

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Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

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[Michelle Spitzer]

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[Nancy Grace]

This February, Aldous Hodge returns as Alex Cross, your favorite detective on television for season two of the hit show Cross, premiering February 11th exclusively on Prime Video. Fresh off his capture of the infamous serial killer, the fanboy, Cross teams up with the FBI to hunt down a vigilante serial killer targeting corrupt billionaires. And as the case unfolds, Cross navigates a moral crossroads where the lines between justice and vengeance are blurred. Catch season two of Cross, with new episodes dropping weekly starting February 11, only on Prime Video. CRIME STORIES with Nancy Grace. The Last Dance, a beautiful young teen cheerleader found dead on a cruise ship. We learned tonight. Spotted on video dancing just before her murder, Antonite does the infantile way. Her body was hidden, covered in life vests and crammed under a bunk point directly to her killer. Amidst claims her family is giving off bad optics that they're more concerned with covering for her stepbrother suspect than about their dead daughter. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. The teen stepbrother is the main suspect in Anna's choke hold asphyxiation.

[Sydney Sumner]

There are so many confusing details about this case.

[Michelle Spitzer]

When is something going to happen? When is there going to be an arrest? When are the answers going to come out.

[Nancy Grace]

Tonight? Joining us in addition to an all star panel of experts is the man who captured video of Anna Kettner, the teen cheerleader, found stuffed dead. We still don't know whether she was clothed or unclothed. Crammed under a bunk on a cruise line. There she is, obscured by life vests, her body there for hours and hours before anyone even notices she's missing. Where were the parents, for Pete's sake? Nobody knows. She's not at breakfast. Nobody notices. She doesn't turn up for lunch. Nobody checks on her the night before. How long had she been stuffed under that bunk? But we know this. A guy named Nick Giddens was taking video on the cruise line of a big party the night before a dance party. And here she is. There is Anna, so happy, so full of life, dancing in a Line Dance. It's hard to accept she would be dead, her body decomposing on a cruise trip. Anna Kepner, the Last Dance video. Now that is from our new friend Nick Capo. That's Nick Capo, 609 on TikTok, and he's with us tonight. Nick, thank you for being with us.

[Nick Giddens]

Thank you. Appreciate it.

[Nancy Grace]

Nick, what happened? How did you manage to take that video?

[Nick Giddens]

So that was the sellaway party. That's the party to get the crew started when we start selling away from port within port of Miami and you know, just my family then also in the video till I was recording them and just, you know, just going around and panning around, seeing, you know, showing everybody having a good time and stuff like that. And that's basically what it was.

[Nancy Grace]

When you took the video, you had no idea that Anna Kepner would be murdered within hours. When did you realize the video that you took showed her as it's called Last Dance.

[Nick Giddens]

I didn't know notice her and. Well, what happened to after the cruise was over with when I posted it, I posted the video that day, November 2nd. But it was after, you know, everything happened and stuff like that, where somebody commented on a video, I mean, on the video, and they said that like, oh, my God, that's the girl that, you know, that got killed. And then I went back and watched it. And then when I watched it and I seen her right there, I seen the grandma and everything too. And that's when I changed it up a little bit and, you know, put the stuff on there. That's when I re posted it or uploaded it again to again more home, you know, to put attention to it basically, so people can see.

[Nancy Grace]

And I'm just wondering what else, if anything, does the video show the suspect tonight? Still no arrest. Now over 75 days later, nothing. I wonder if this video shows anything else of probative value. In other words, does it prove anything? I wonder if the stepbrother is anywhere in this video. I wonder if he was there that night. Who was she dancing with, Nick? We've been told she was dancing with her grandma.

[Nick Giddens]

Yes, her grandma. And also there's actually two videos was, you know, the two songs playing the YMC song. And then there's the Cupid Shuffle song. I can't remember which one the grandpa was in, but one of them, I don't know. I don't. I don't even know what the step brother looked like, honestly. So I don't know if he was in the video or not.

[Nancy Grace]

And here she is in that second clip that Nick managed to video dancing. And it shows she's dancing with her grandparents. Let's look. You know what, Nick Giddens, I am so glad that you took that video and realized what it was and posted it because it shows her Anna Kepner to me in a different light. I mean, really just scrubbed in sunshine. There she is dancing with her grandparents. It just precious guys you were seeing video taking his handle is Nick Capo six zero nine on Tick Tock. Nick Giddens joining us tonight.

[Michelle Spitzer]

Wow.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay. You know, to Spencer Ehrenfield joining us. He's known as the cruise lawyer. Why? Because he has taken on giant cruise line industries fighting for his client. Trial lawyer, founder of Ehrenfeld Trial Lawyers, author of a children's book, Sarah Rose, Kid lawyer. Spencer, thank you for being with us. You know, it's amazing how cases are put together. Patchwork, patchwork. A bit of information here, a bit of information there. And by the time this turns into an opening statement, it will all be woven into an incredible tapestry, including a timeline. What you just saw has been called her last dance. The But I find it poignant because she is there living it up with her grandparents.

[Spencer Ehrenfeld]

Yes, of course, Nancy. She's on a cruise and she's doing what people on cruises do, which is have fun. And they participate in things like the dancing and the bingo activities and shuffleboard. And she's a cruise passenger having fun. Unfortunately, this dream vacation ended in such a nightmare for her and her family. But this is exactly what you'd expect to see someone doing on a Carnival cruise.

[Nancy Grace]

And this is no different than any of the other cruises. I mean, some cruises may cost more or they may go to or less or they may go to different locations, but everyone fraternizes with everyone. And the point of my assertion is that sometimes it's very hard to. It's like a needle in a haystack finding that one person that would commit a murder out of 3,000 people doing a line shuffle and at the party, the cruise wide party that night.

[Spencer Ehrenfeld]

These are fun cruises. Carnival in particular promotes the fun cruise concept. They want everyone to be together. They want big parties. They want a lot of alcohol consumed. They really push the alcohol consumption and they just want people to have the time of their life and come back and cruise again. The problem is you don't know who the people are that you're cruising with. So you could be cruising with murderers, child predators and all sorts of criminals. They let everybody on the ship. So who knows who is in this line dance with this poor young lady.

[Nancy Grace]

Guys, what we are learning tonight is that according to experts, this is her quote, last dance. And the infantile way. Infantile, like an infant juvenile way her body was disposed of could point directly to the killer.

[Nick Giddens]

We feel there are some circumstances regarding that the 16 year old and the mother's judgment regarding that cruise that would affect, you know, obviously that her ability to care for the minor child, the 9 year old, the 16 year old was allowed to drink. The teenagers were given their own room in which to stay. Just a lot of circumstances that showed that the mother in this case was not exercising appropriate supervision over this child.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, Spencer Ehrenfield, according to what we were hearing and that family court hearing, and of course, the cruise ship says no way. According to what we were hearing, the miners were allowed to drink on the cruise. The cruise ship says, no, that would never happen. But did alcohol play into her murder that night? And when I say murder, Ehrenfield, I mean murder. Because there is no way she killed herself or had an accident and ended up stuffed under a bunk, crammed in with life vests.

[Spencer Ehrenfeld]

100%, Nancy. I've investigated thousands of these cases and in my 35 years, alcohol is almost always present, even with minors. Carnival may be taking the position they didn't serve alcohol to the minor, but that doesn't prevent her from consuming it because there's 101 ways someone can get booze on a cruise, even if they bring it on themselves. So it doesn't mean Carnival served it to her necessarily. But I would bet you the toxicology is going to come back with alcohol.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, I want to talk about not just whether or not the teens were served alcohol, which leads me to where were the parents? If they were served alcohol, did that lead to her murder? Did it contribute in any way? This is what we've learned about how this teen cheerleader was found dead.

[Chantel Hudson]

The Kepner family frantically searching for Anna, last seen feeling unwell at dinner the night before when a housekeeper makes a horrifying discovery. The maid starts to gather linens for laundry, but notices the sheet missing off the bed. Making the bed, she notices a pile of life jackets stuffed underneath. Removing the life jackets, she discovers the missing sheet wrapped around Anna's body.

[Nancy Grace]

My stars to Michelle Spitzer joining us out of Melbourne, Florida, investigative reporter for USA Today on the case from the very, very beginning. Michelle, thank you for being with us. Describe in depth how Anna Kepner, the teen cheerleader's body, was found stuffed under that bunk.

[Michelle Spitzer]

Well, what we know about this case has really just come from family. The FBI is being very tight lipped. So the family is really the one who has leaked information here and there and through court hearings, especially with the stepbrother's biological parents. As you know, they're in a custody battle and there's been a lot of information that has been released in those court hearings. They have not specifically said how her body was found, but as you said, there is speculation that she was found under the bed by someone cleaning the stateroom. And we do not know what condition her body was found, if she was wearing clothes or not.

[Nancy Grace]

Sydney Sumner joining us, Crime Stories, investigative reporter. What do we know?

[Sydney Sumner]

We've heard conflicting reports. All of this information coming from family members that are secondhand, hearing this information from Chris Keppner and Chantal Hudson. So these conflicting reports, we're not really sure whether or not Anna was found naked, whether she was wrapped in a blanket, in a sheet. It's all a little bit vague at this point because the FBI has said nothing.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, then let me cross examine you very briefly. Sidney Sumner, would you agree that by all accounts Anna Kempner's body was found, Anna was dead, stuffed under a bunk under one of the beds in the room on the cruise ship. Do you agree with that?

[Sydney Sumner]

I do.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay. Sidney Sumner, let me further clarify. Would you say that by all accounts life vests had been crammed under the bed to conceal her body?

[Sydney Sumner]

That's also true.

[Nancy Grace]

Joseph Scott Morgan, joining me, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, who has an incredible Crimpro program. He is an author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. He's the star of a hit new podcast, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. But for our purposes tonight, he is a death investigator that has investigated 10,000 death scenes. And for some people, that's a little hard to imagine. Jo Scott Morgan but it's true because I was asked to count up how many cases I handled. Okay, think about it. About 100 felonies a week, times 4 per month, times 12 months, times 10 years. Plus it adds up to literally thousands of cases that you and I have both handled. So you as an expert, a forensic expert, a death investigator, has stated that the infantile way in which Anna's body was concealed could point directly to her killer. Explain yourself.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, of course. Because this is something that was done spontaneously. If you think about the body, covering this is a matter of convenience. What do I have in arm's reach in order to conceal the body? And from the infantile perspective, you have deluded yourself. The perpetrator or whoever did this, the concealment, that is, you have deluded yourself into thinking that, oh yeah, well, if I put her here, no one will ever find her. And so that goes to that kind of mentality when you begin to think about it. Interesting point here relative to this particular Carnival Cruise vessel. This is called the Horizon. And the Horizon, unlike other ships in their fleet, they have life vests that are actually in the staterooms. Okay. So anybody that's ever been on a cruise, they take you through the safety thing and you have to meet at a gathering point and then these things are kind of dispersed to you. In this particular case, someone within arm's reach had access to life vests. So this was, this is going to facilitate the shielding of the body. Covering of the body. And listen, the covering of the body is not necessarily what we refer to as a memorialization of the dead. You'll get that lots of times with perpetrators. No, no, no, no. This is an event where somebody is trying to shield the body so they can get distance from the body and then leave the questions to be answered later. And still to this date, we don't have any answers at this point other than what the OCME down in Miami the ME is saying is her cause of death.

[Nancy Grace]

Now, I agree with everything that you just said, Jo Scott Morgan, but still I need clarification. We often see some of that video is from our friends at Mojo south on TikTok. When we're looking under the bed, when you say bunk, you may think of a bunk bed one on top of the other. It's more like this in that particular cruise room. And Spencer Ehrenfield, you're the cruise lawyer, jump in if you see or hear anything that you can expound upon or correct. You're the cruise expert, not us. Okay, back to you, Joe Scott Morgan. Very often with seasoned criminals, they use whatever's at hand, may it be. It could be a ball peen hammer, it could be a vase, it could be running somebody down with a car. That does not suggest infantile. A lot of killers use whatever is at hand. But you specifically said the infantile way, infant child, childish puerto way, that she was killed and hidden points to a child, a young person. Why did you choose that word? I find it very probative in this.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Case who occupies her space. Can. Let me ask you this, Nancy. Has this 18 year old young woman develop some kind of enemy on this ship that would drive somebody to what the me? This is the ME saying this. What the ME is describing as using an arm bar across her neck to asphyxiate her. Who on this population, this ship, is driven to do that? Well, most of the time, as you well know, we look at these violent cases, there are certainly more cases that end up in people's desks that have familial connection than some kind of stranger case where somebody emerges out of the dark shadows because you have relationship issues, you have motivations and all this sort of thing. Well, who's in her group? Who would have access to that stateroom other than immediate family or maybe a worker? I guess you could say that somebody could have followed her in there. But I got to tell you, Nancy, I'm hearing hoofbeats and I'm not thinking camel at this point in time. I'm thinking something that is more reasonable here. And when you get her in this position and you have, you know, understandably ended her life, oh, my goodness, what in the world do I do? You don't have somebody that's sophisticated enough to think, well, maybe I can kind of wrap her body up, get her over a railing somewhere. They're at sea. That's not what happens. They take her body, place her under this rack here and hoping against hope that no one is going to find it. That's what I mean by infant talk.

[Nancy Grace]

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[Michelle Spitzer]

Straight out.

[Nancy Grace]

To Dr. Sue Corn Bluth, Director of Clinical Psychology, owner of Dr. Sue and you'd author of Building self esteem in children and Teens and you can find [e-mail] Dr. Sue, thank you for being with us. Now I think just got Morgan explained fully why he, a death investigator expert used the term infantile. I mean play it out, follow it through to its logical conclusion. You kill the girl, you killed the teen cheerleader and then you think, oh my stars, now what am I going to do? Hey, I'll just hide her under the bed like with my dirty socks and underwear. Nobody will ever find her here. Instead of right there, let's see a video of the room again. Right there you've got a sliding glass door and a balcony. You could throw her overboard and hours would pass. The ship was moving. People may have thought, hey, she fell overboard last night at some point. But no, they were so short sighted that they thought, hey, I'll stick her under the bed. They'll never find her. Oh, that video from our friends at Mojo south on TikTok. What about it? Dr. Sue?

[Dr. Sue Kornbluth]

I think Jo has a great point here that whoever did this probably was young and panicked and didn't know what to do with the body. And like in a child's mind, what do you do when somebody gets hurt? You hide them or you tell. But if you tell, then you're going to get in trouble. So instead you hide her under the bed and hoping that nobody is going to find her. I mean, it's very infantile the way that this all went down. Now the thing is here, Nancy, do we have proof that her stepbrother did this? That is what is going to be, you know, in my mind, the major component here. But it definitely seems like this was possibly done by somebody that was young or her age.

[Michelle Spitzer]

Everybody now asking these questions.

[Nancy Grace]

The stepbrother being a suspect, what is the truth? Why no charges? Tonight we are learning more about the timeline and the so called infantile way that Anna Ketmer, the teen cheerleader's body was hidden, points directly to her killer. We are also learning tonight that video does exist. It's only been talked about or speculated upon in the past. Video does exist of Anna Kepner going alone to her room. Her braces were bothering her that night at dinner. She goes alone to her room. Video then reveals other family members, the younger brother and the older stepbrother going into the room. Further video shows the little brother leaving the room alone and then wandering around the ship all by himself for the evening. But Anna doesn't leave the room and the stepbrother doesn't leave the room for hours. In fact, Anna never leaves the room. To Michelle Spitzer joining us out of Melbourne, Florida, investigative reporter, USA Today, what can you tell us about the video.

[Michelle Spitzer]

In these court hearings that the stepbrother's biological parents have had? They are the ones who have named their son as a suspect and his biological mother actually said in text messages that were revealed in court documents, she sent a text message to her ex husband saying once the autopsy results are revealed, we will see if he is charged, which I think is very telling.

[Nancy Grace]

Spencer Ehrenfield, Trial lawyer, called the cruise line lawyer and for a reason. Tell me about the abundance of video camera surveillance cameras where you'd least expect them on the cruise ships.

[Spencer Ehrenfeld]

So all the common areas of these ships, Nancy, are wired like a casino. They have high definition CCTV footage that will capture with facial recognition software any passenger at any time, anywhere on the ship. That's a common area. So for sure they have video that will track Anna from the moment she got on the ship until she was last seen entering her cabin. And they also have electronic key cards that will time whose card was used to get in that cabin at what time and when the door opened and shut so they can piece this entire thing together and have a very succinct timeline of what happened to her.

[Nancy Grace]

Sydney Sumner, Crime Stories Investigative reporter How old do we believe the little brother is?

[Sydney Sumner]

Anna's biological younger brother is about 13.

[Nancy Grace]

Years old and he's going to be a critical witness because he heard a big blowout happening in that cabin after he had been ousted. An argument, an explosive argument between the older stepbrother and Anna Kepner, including furniture being thrown reportedly at Anna. Where I'm going with this, Spencer Ehrenfield, and I'm going to circle back to Anna's body, is the little brother, 12 or 13 years old, wandered the cruise ship all by himself the remainder of the evening. He's caught on camera.

[Spencer Ehrenfeld]

Yeah, it's very sad, Nancy. It's not uncommon for parents to turn a blind eye on their kids on these cruises. They get rolled away into the false sense of security that these cruise ships are safe. And I've had many cases with kids of all ages that are walking around unsupervised at all hours of the night on these cruise ships and they're not safe. It's kind of like letting your child walk around Times Square in New York City at 2 in the morning. No parent would ever do that. But they seem to do this on cruise ships because they mistakenly believe cruise ships are safer than they really are.

[Nancy Grace]

Sydney Sumner, tell me the timeline when Anna was last seen alive and then when her body was discovered. How many hours passed?

[Sydney Sumner]

Nearly 18. Nancy. She was last seen at dinner around 6:30pm the night before and nobody was alarmed wondering where she was until breakfast the next day around 9am okay, so.

[Nancy Grace]

What does that mean? Michelle Spitzer joining us from USA Today. Anna Kettner, the teen cheerleader, she was killed by a, quote, bar hold, something held over her neck and that asphyxiated her, Suffocated her.

[Michelle Spitzer]

Yes. And that's been a question that's been brought up in the court case, the custody hearing. Where were the parents and the stepbrother's biological mother? Anna's stepmother has said that she went to bed that evening at 7:30 and doesn't really know what happened after that, she claims, because she was sleeping, but as we've heard, we have video, too. I'm sure the FBI is investigating. Did she leave her room after 7:30? Did she go anywhere? Did she actually go to bed at 7:30 that night?

[Nancy Grace]

To Joe Scott Morgan, forensics professor at Jacksonville State University. You know what I'd be doing right now? I'd be looking at that big buffet, the video.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

I'm also going to be interested if she was impacted by any furniture that was in that room. There would be evidence of markings on her body, potentially any kind of contusions, because at that point in time, you wouldn't be getting them to resolve. They'd still be kind of very pronounced in this short window of time. I know we're talking about 18 hours, but from a change of body, the changes that happen in the postmortem context, you would still be able to appreciate those readily. One more thing, and I'll shut my mouth. Talk about the arm bar, Nancy. The arm bar. The arm bar itself is. You're taking the leading part of your arm. That's why they call it an arm bar. Okay. And you're compressing the larynx. This is not like a chokehold where you're compressing the blood supply to the brain. You know what would have happened here? If you're talking about. Talking about an arm. Arm bar, you're pressing down literally on the windpipe. I'm very. I'll be very interested to see what the OCME in their detailed report is noting as far as trauma to all of the cartilaginous bodies, all of the cartilage in the trachea, to see if it's been fractured in any way. And yeah, you can have cartilaginous fractures. I want to know if that exists, because this is a very specific diagnosis.

[Nancy Grace]

No one has been charged formally in this case with the death of Anna Kepner. But that said, Dr. Sue Kornbluth, another thing I want to find out is what was the stepbrother, the older stepbrothers, behavior in his demeanor at breakfast the next morning, was he stuffing himself on the all you can eat breakfast buffet? Because they are notorious. Was he doing that or did the mom say, hey, what's wrong? You're not hungry? I want to find out everything. Was he sick to his stomach or was it sop? Standard operating procedure, breakfast as usual. I can't wait to find out. And you know, we heard Joe Scott saying, I want to find out was she hit by a piece of furniture? I want to find out was she sex assaulted?

[Dr. Sue Kornbluth]

It's a great question, Nancy. You know, I've been on cruises myself. There are big buffets that, you know, you just eat whatever you want. But you know, I don't know. It's a great question. Was he sitting there not eating? Was he very quiet or was he participating in conversation?

[Nancy Grace]

Also tonight, bad optics. Are Anna's family members more worried about covering up for the stepbrother than they are about the daughter being dead?

[Chantel Hudson]

Texts submitted as evidence of the custody battle over Chantel and Thomas Hudson's youngest daughter revealed the family's attempt at damage control. In the hours after they're told their son is a suspect in the stepsister's murder, Chantel Hudson first informs her ex Anna is dead and their son may be involved a whopping 32 hours after the 18 year old's body is discovered. From there, the parents priority is protecting their son from scrutiny.

[Thomas Hudson]

November 8, at 7:35pm, Chantelle Hudson texts Thomas Hudson, I need you to call me asap. It's an emergency. Nearly an hour later, after a shocking phone call, Thomas Hudson offers to get their daughter away from the situation. Hudson promises good intentions and Chantelle Hudson replies that she appreciates the offer but doesn't think it will help. Explaining she's only told the nine year old her older brother is having a hard time coping with losing Anna, so he's getting checked out by the hospital.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, let me understand what happened to Michelle Spitzer. Joining us, investigative reporter, USA Today. Michelle, when the stepbrother, the older stepbrother, not the younger 12, 13 year old natural brother, the older stepbrother, the one that reportedly was throwing the furniture and was alone in the room with Anna Ketner just before her death. That one, when they returned to port after her body was found, he went straight to the hospital, is that correct?

[Michelle Spitzer]

He did go to a facility is what it was referred to in court documents. We do not know how long he stayed there, but by all accounts it was not long. And, and then he was released to a relative in another part of Florida. He did not return back to Titusville, his home in Brevard County. And he has remained with this relative who now has guardianship over him.

[Nancy Grace]

Now, when he was rushed for psychiatric evaluation, was it that the first time the FBI detectives tried to speak with him, he suddenly had to go to the hospital because he couldn't remember what happened?

[Michelle Spitzer]

We do believe, we know that the FBI did meet the cruise ship when it docked in port in Miami. And as far as timing on when they were able to first speak with him, we're not really sure on when that was, but believe it was pretty shortly after he disembarked from the cruise ship. And yes, according to court documents, he has told his mother he does not remember anything from what happened on the cruise ship.

[Thomas Hudson]

Chantel Hudson tells her ex over text that their son just keeps repeating over and over he can't remember anything. Chris Kepner's parents say the same thing. The 16 year old claims he cannot remember anything and is clearly distraught. The boy's step grandparents also say he was unable to speak the first time FBI detectives try to question him. The teen is rushed to a hospital for psychiatric evaluation the moment investigators allow the family to leave the cruise ship.

[Nancy Grace]

So investigators are trying to speak to him. SIDNEY SUMNER and that's when he remember, this is where I'm going. 18 hours, everything's been fine. He could walk, he could talk, he dressed himself, he went to the breakfast buffet. But then the investigator showed up and suddenly he can't function. He can't speak to the FBI and has to be raced for a psych hold. Do I have that right? SYDNEY sumner Exactly.

[Sydney Sumner]

The grandparents family members say once they found Anna's body, this teen boy was completely distraught, unable to speak, appearing to go through some sort of mental episode. And he's rushed to that hospital for a psychiatric evaluation the moment investigators allow them to step off of that cruise ship.

[Nancy Grace]

SPENCER Ehrenfeld, is he unable to speak because his stepsister is dead or because they found the body? RUH ROH Right.

[Spencer Ehrenfeld]

Or maybe, Nancy, he was sort of invoking his Fifth Amendment privilege and refused to speak. So I kind of hope that is what happened and that he decided he was not going to cooperate with the FBI and not speak until he had a lawyer. And maybe this was an opportunity to create a gap in time.

[Nancy Grace]

Why would he do that? Doesn't he want to find out who killed Anna, his sister?

[Spencer Ehrenfeld]

He also doesn't want to be wrongfully convicted. So perhaps he was doing the right thing until he had a chance to speak to a lawyer.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, that's crazy because when I've witnessed a car accident, for example, I didn't try to leave the scene and climb up and take the Fifth. I told the responding officer what I saw. So why not? Why not say what happened?

[Spencer Ehrenfeld]

That assumes he saw something, maybe he didn't. And I do want to give this kid the presumption of innocence. I know there is strong indications that he may not be. But he does deserve this presumption and he does deserve to have.

[Nancy Grace]

Of course he does, Spencer.

[Spencer Ehrenfeld]

And he does deserve to invoke.

[Nancy Grace]

And I appreciate you. I appreciate you reiterating and giving him the protections, but I believe the US Constitution has already done that. Look around. Are you in a courtroom? No, you are not. You're in front of a camera. And we are discussing the evidence as we know it now. And what I know is the family is very concerned about image optics.

[Chantel Hudson]

Listen, Thomas Hudson concerned about keeping his son's name private. Already coming across social media posts mentioning the teenage. I know everything is supposed to be hush hush for now, but I've seen that it is still getting out with posts and comments between Facebook, TikTok and Stuff. I just want to make sure until things are certain that he doesn't get any unnecessary comments towards him.

[Thomas Hudson]

Chantel Hudson assures Thomas Hudson she is doing everything she can to keep their son's name private. Everything that's been posted on TikTok and social media, nobody knows anything and everybody's just speculating. Nobody knows anything about him. He is a minor and has been kept completely out of it. We have not said anything to anybody and we are going to try our best to keep it completely out. When we talk to the FBI again, we will reiterate that we do not want his name out there.

[Nancy Grace]

Crime stories with nancy grace. Let me understand Joe Scott Morgan. When the family, the bio dad and stepmom meet with the FBI, their concern is protecting the privacy of the stepbrother suspect. Why are they saying to the FBI, where's the charges? Who did this?

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

What?

[Nancy Grace]

Is something totally bass ackwards here?

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Yeah, in my opinion it is. I mean, why are you not climbing up on the rooftops of every home in your immediate vicinity and screaming, I want to find out who did this to my child? Because Nancy, I can tell you this, she did not fall down and strike her neck so that it gives the appearance of an arm bar. All right, so I want to know who facilitated this. We talked a lot about cctv. We talked about her being visualized. I think that that the first guest that you had on Nancy with the video is incredibly powerful there. So I, you know, we have videography here. What's the holdup at this point in time? Let's move forward with this because Anna is the victim.

[Nancy Grace]

The texts between the family are very, very concerning to me.

[Chantel Hudson]

Listen, in text, grief for Anna's loss is barely discussed. Chantel Hudson describes youngest daughter Brooke struggling with the loss and declined to call from Hudson because this is the first time we will be home without Anna and their son. Otherwise, the focus lies on their son. Chantelle Hudson never mentioning feelings on her stepdaughter's murder.

[Nancy Grace]

The child is dead. Anna Kettner is dead, either clothed or partially clothed, stuffed under a bed. I don't quite get why the focus is on protecting the privacy of the stepbrother as opposed to apprehending their daughter's killer. Sydney Sumner, what is happening?

[Sydney Sumner]

We don't know. There has been no word from any investigative agency on why this teenager, who is named as a suspect in these court documents in this custody case, is still living freely with relatives. Because my concern, Nancy, is he's gonna run.

[Nancy Grace]

Nick Giddens came forward and showed us his video from the cruise video that captured Anna Kepner and her so called last dance with her grandparents. Is it probative? Yes, it is. It can prove something if carefully analyzed. So if you know or think you know anything about this case, even if you think it is Inconsequential, please dial 754-703-2000. Repeat, 754-703-2000. We remember an American hero, Deputy Sheriff Noah Rainey, Carroll County Sheriffs, Indiana. Just 29, killed in the line of duty, leaving behind his young wife and two little boys. American hero, Deputy Sheriff Noah Rainey, Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.