Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode Title: Mayhem in The Morgue: Fame, Fourth Graders, and Darth Vader
Original Release: October 19, 2025
Host: Dr. Kendall Crowns (Guest Host)
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts and CrimeOnline

Overview

In this memorable episode, Dr. Kendall Crowns takes listeners behind the scenes of his unique experiences conducting school career day presentations as a forensic pathologist and medical examiner. Blending humor with insight, he explores common misconceptions about his field, the creative ways he educates children about forensic pathology, and recounts a hilariously chaotic Q&A session with fourth graders that escalated to a debate on whether Darth Vader killed a Star Wars actor in real life. The result is a candid, fascinating look at how children process information about death, movies, and science, and the challenges of explaining reality to a room of imaginative kids.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Misconceptions about Forensic Pathology

(Timestamp: 01:56 – 04:20)

• Dr. Crowns discusses how the public, including children and even medical students, often misunderstand what forensic pathologists and medical examiners do.
  • People sometimes think he works in the meat industry or as a funeral home embalmer.
  • Many are surprised that forensic pathologists are actual medical doctors; the specialty requires four years of medical school, several years of residency, and additional sub-specialization.
  • There are only 400–500 board-certified forensic pathologists in the U.S., leading to a nationwide shortage.

Dr. Crowns [03:00]: "It takes longer to create a forensic pathologist than it does a baby elephant."

2. Educating Young Minds: The Art of the School Presentation

(Timestamp: 04:21 – 08:03)

• Dr. Crowns tailored his presentations to different age levels, using a strategy inspired by Steven Spielberg’s approach in "Jaws":
  • For younger grades, he uses X-rays (e.g., a bullet in a skull), close-ups of wounds, and bullets recovered from bodies, but never shows identifying features or full bodies.
  • This instills a sense of mystery and drama without exposing children to anything truly traumatic.
  • The presentations were well-received, with no complaints from teachers or parents, and he was frequently invited back.

Dr. Crowns [06:00]: "...it makes my talk less frightening or horrifying, and the students think they have seen something crazy. But in reality, it was very tame."

3. The Most Bizarre and Memorable Questions from Kids

(Timestamp: 08:04 – 08:56)

• Kids’ curiosity knows no bounds. Common questions include:
  • "What does it smell like?" ("rotting trash mixed with blood")
  • "How much do you get paid?" Answers vary; some kids are impressed, others disappointed.
  • "Weirdest thing ever found in a stomach?" ("Ballpoint pens. …probably over 50.")
  • "Weirdest weapon used to kill someone?" ("A mini safe…like, crushed in his head.")

4. The “Famous Autopsy” and the Star Wars Fiasco

(Timestamp: 08:57 – 11:14)

• During one career day with fourth graders, a child asked Dr. Crowns who the most famous person he’d autopsied was.
  • He chose to mention Richard LeParmentier, who played Admiral Motti (force-choked by Vader) in the original "Star Wars."
  • Most kids recognized the film and the scene, but didn’t know the actor’s name.
  • The kids connected dots incorrectly and excitedly concluded Darth Vader had really killed LeParmentier.
  • Chaos ensued as the children began shouting and speculating, including theories like "Darth Vader gave him cancer" and "it must have been something in the Death Star."
  • The classroom descended into confusion until the teacher intervened, explained reality, and restored order.

Dr. Crowns [09:56]: “At that moment, one of the children gasped, and he said, ‘You mean Darth Vader really killed him?!’ A wave of shock and realization spread through the room faster than lice with kindergartners.”

Dr. Crowns [10:47]: “Then that same child, whose name was Monty, by the way, started the chaos again when he said, ‘Darth Vader gave him cancer.’ And again, that same wave of chaos spread across the room.”

5. Reflections on Logic, Children, and Chaos

(Timestamp: 11:15 – 11:57)

• Dr. Crowns humorously acknowledges being outmatched by the logic of a fourth grader and expresses gratitude for teachers who can wrangle children’s wild trains of thought.
• He likens the experience to being caught in a "feeding frenzy," and concludes with tips for wrangling grade-school audiences and a wry lesson about pop culture versus reality.

Dr. Crowns [11:48]: “I’ve testified in court for years … and I’ve never been derailed like I was by that statement from a fourth grader.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On public misconceptions:
  • “Other people think I work for funeral homes as an embalmer. People also think I’m a coroner. And a lot of people don’t even realize I have a medical degree.” [02:45]
• On educational methods:
  • "In the years I've done these presentations, I've never received one complaint from teachers, parents, or children. So it must have not been too frightening, right?" [06:40]
• On handling children's logic:
  • “You can’t counter a young child with a logical argument because they just wouldn’t understand. And this was one of those moments.” [10:30]
• On the aftermath:
  • “Monte really had my number that day… Thank goodness for grade school teachers, because they actually understand the logic of children somehow.” [11:40]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Misconceptions & Forensic Pathology 101: 01:56 – 04:20
• Career Day Presentations – Strategy & Feedback: 04:21 – 08:03
• Kids’ Most Bizarre Questions: 08:04 – 08:56
• Star Wars Autopsy Incident: 08:57 – 11:14
• Reflections and Lessons Learned: 11:15 – 11:57

Summary & Takeaways

This episode delivers a funny, educational, and endearing glimpse into the world of forensic pathology as seen through the eyes of both a medical examiner and schoolchildren. Dr. Crowns demystifies his profession, shares how he makes forensic science accessible (and not too scary) to young audiences, and recounts an unforgettable Q&A derailed by Star Wars fandom. The chaos and humor of the incident illuminate how kids mix fantasy and fact, and underscore the vital role teachers play in bridging those worlds.

Key Takeaways:

• Forensic pathologists are highly trained, but often misunderstood professionals.
• Engaging young audiences about science can be rewarding and unpredictable.
• Children’s questions are unfiltered, profoundly logical (in their own way), and sometimes hilarious.
• Pop culture references, especially ones as potent as Star Wars, have a life of their own in kids’ imaginations.
• Sometimes, the hardest questions aren’t from lawyers or judges— they’re from fourth graders.