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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
MISSING SCIENTIST DEAD IN EERIE FOREST DISCOVERY: NO BULLET, NO SUICIDE?
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- [00:00]
Nancy Grace
This is an I Heart podcast guaranteed
- [00:04]
America 250 Announcer
human this July 4th come celebrate at America's Block Party hosted by America 250. America's Block Party is a can't miss 4th of July concert happening at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum.
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Experience music, performances by major artists, patriotic tributes and the kickoff to giving 4th, helping to make July 4th the largest day of giving in American history.
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It's more than just fireworks.
- [00:26]
Join this landmark celebration and get your America's Block Party Tickets now for $17 at america250.org LA introducing the all new
- [00:38]
Mazda CX5 Advertiser
Mazda CX5 featuring more connection hey Google, where's the nearest Pilates class safety that has your back. More discovery on the scenic routes, more passion in the details and more control in changing weather. The all new Mazda CX5 more to move every side of you. See it in five films at mazdausa.com fivesides Google is a trademark of Google LLC. Sequences shortened and simulated AI is taking over the Internet.
- [01:09]
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- [01:37]
Nancy Grace
in every 26 seconds. In the US most security systems alert you after a break in has already started. That's too late. SimpliSafe is changing that using advanced AI alerts. SimpliSafes US based live agents identify threats on your property and help deter them. And here's what I love most about it. No long term contracts and the setup is so easy. The SimpliSafe system was delivered to our door and in just 30 minutes our home is more secure with monitoring and deterrence plans. Starting around a dollar a day, everyone can enjoy the benefits of SimpliSafe. I want you to experience the same peace of mind we do. That's why I've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer an exclusive discount to our listeners. Right now you get 50% off your new system by visiting simplisafe.com Nancy I believe in it so much I've given it to two of the LOL's little old ladies back in my home church in Macon, Georgia. That's half off at SimpliSafe and dot com. Nancy There really is no Safe like Simplisafe.
- [02:52]
Lauren Conlon
Hi, it's Karen and Georgia from my favorite Murder.
- [02:54]
Karen & Georgia (My Favorite Murder)
We cruised around LA in the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and dove into the fascinating life of actress and inventor Hedy Lamarr.
- [03:00]
Lauren Conlon
Want the full story?
- [03:01]
Nancy Grace
Take a listen.
- [03:02]
Karen & Georgia (My Favorite Murder)
She starts dating Howard Hughes and in fact, she helps him design a faster plane. So she finds the fastest bird and the fastest fish and sketches out a drawing of what the two would look like as a plane. And that becomes the plane that we know today. And he calls her a genius. Check out our new episode spotlighting groundbreaking innovators like Hedy and Lamar and Billie Jean King.
- [03:24]
Lauren Conlon
Presented by The Hyundai Ioniq 5.
- [03:27]
Nancy Grace
Goodbye Crime stories with Nancy Grace. A missing nuclear lab worker connected to the string of missing and dead scientists found dead in a chilling and eerie forest discovery amidst claims of suicide. There's no bullet. Was she murdered somewhere else? Her body disposed in a remote and densely wooded location. No bullet, no suicide. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Neil McCaslin, he was a linchpin to
- [04:21]
John Nance
a lot of the military's black projects.
- [04:24]
Frank Milburn
Basically, they're working on technologies that in theory we won't see for another 50 years.
- [04:29]
Nancy Grace
Space scientists dead and missing as the death toll actually rises.
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John Nance
And so you're actually moving so space and time around the craft. Her remains had not seen any kind of scavenging.
- [04:44]
Nancy Grace
Joining us tonight, an all star panel. But first, I want to go to John Nance, former supervisory special agent with the FBI assigned to the Miami and D.C. field offices over 20 years. Mr. Nance, thank you for being with us tonight. I know you're not a medical examiner, but I'm very fatigued with claims that all of these top security clearance scientists and lab workers all just walk out of their home with no id, no cell phone. Melissa Casillas cell phone had been factory wiped when her daughter found her cell phone. They all just walk out and suddenly have an urge to commit suicide. Melissa Cassias gun found near her body. She was completely skeletonized by the time her body has been found. Family says she was not acting unusually in any way. The family says that's not her gun. That's not our gun. Where did that gun come from? And most disturbing, Mr. Nance, there's no bullet at that scene. Anyway, it really doesn't take a rocket scientist, pardon my pun, to figure out something is way off with this story.
- [06:09]
John Nance
Yeah, none of this makes any sense. The theories surrounding while these people are committing suicide, it just doesn't hold investigative water. There are a lot of unanswered questions, especially in Cassius case. In fact, her husband said that part of her story was that she was going to return home to get her ID Badge, when, in fact, he saw her with the ID Badge in the vehicle. So that makes no sense. And of course, as you've already mentioned, the cell phones, the smartphones being reset to factory settings, all these things indicate that she didn't necessarily intend to take her life, but that she could have been in fear for her safety in some form or fashion and maybe was attempting to escape. I mean, that's. That's a. That's a possibility.
- [07:06]
Nancy Grace
Well, you know, that juxtaposed against McCasland, who leaves his home with no ID without his cell phone, without his smartwatch, nothing that would track or identify him, and just disappears. They're just disappearing. And now tonight's question. Does the missing lab worker skull reveal a new clue about her death? This as very disturbing theories have been raised. John Nance joining us, as you just heard, supervisory Special Agent. Another issue. Let me go straight out to Jeff Gentry, forensic certified bloodstained pattern analysis, senior crime analyst, death investigator, author of Forensic Science Applications to Death and Crime Scene Investigations. And you can find Jeff Gentry@evidenceover assumption.com and Jeff Gentry. It's very important that I stress the name of your website, because assumptions don't carry water in court. And you know what else doesn't carry water in court? An unknown unidentified handgun by the victim's body in a remote area where family thinks she's never been before. And no bullet. If she committed suicide, we would find the bullet either in the skull or nearby. So was she killed elsewhere and brought to this location? What drove her away from her daughter that afternoon? And while Gentry is speaking. Control room. There she is with the husband. Gentry, while you're speaking, I want to see the last known image of Melissa Cassias. There she is. Hey, where are all those things? She's got a backpack with her. What? Where is all that? Because we haven't heard word one about any of that being found by or around her body. And also interesting, Jeff Gentry. No animal activity. She's been missing a long time. And her body, her skeleton is sitting up, undisturbed, pristine, leaning against a tree. That defies everything I know about a crime scene where a body is found skeletonized. It would have fallen apart by now, right?
- [09:39]
Jeff Gentry
Nancy, there are a lot of unanswered questions in this case. It's very puzzling. And as a scientist myself, I have a Lot of questions. It's very scary and concerning to think that somebody could just go missing. And when you're doing a suicide investigation, which I've done hundreds of them, and I actually have a book on suicide investigation, you are looking for intent. And if there's no intent that that person intended to harm themselves, then you can't call the case a suicide. You are looking for, you know, lifestyle, changes in behavior, trouble at work. All these factors are taken into consideration when you're calling something a suicide. And if you don't have that, you have to look a lot deeper. And when you start digging deeper into this case, it becomes more and more concerning. There's so many elements that are puzzling in this case. You mentioned so many different things, and I want to tackle all of those. So the first is just the way she was found very abnormal in a location that's abnormal for her. Why would you just walk off into nowhere, essentially? And why. Why would you harm yourself? What would. What would be the motive there? That's what you're trying to figure out in these cases. And then when you are investigating these cases, you're looking for evidence. How long has that person been there? What. What was their body position? You mentioned animal activity or insect activity. And that's generally going to be the case in deaths outdoors. Insects, animals, they're going to have free access to the body. And if you don't see that, then you start have to answer the question, why is that not there when you would typically expect to see this? So then the question of, you know, was this person possibly harmed somewhere else and then moved or repositioned. Those are all very relevant questions. But when you have just skeletal remains, it becomes very difficult to answer those questions, because on a normal fresh body, you can see evidence of drag marks or injuries, abrasions, different things that you're looking for on a body to suggest that they were moved or harmed and then placed in that position. But on a skeletal remains case, you don't have all of that. And it would be my guess that if somebody were involved in this case, they would know that. They would know that once you reposition a body or once you let a body decompose, do skeletal remains, then all of that evidence is essentially gone. And if you don't have the evidence, then you're just left making assumptions about a case.
- [11:54]
Nancy Grace
But Jeff Gentry, speaking of the bones, I want to talk to you about her skull. If she were shot in the head, as we have been led to believe, again, there is no official cod. We don't have a cod. What's the problem? A CAT scan, a simple CAT scan would reveal the truth, the angle of the trajectory path. In other words, if she was shot from the back to the front, then we know that's not a suicide. If she was shot at an obtuse angle, such as from the top right of the head down, we know that's not a suicide. There are many ways we can determine from a trajectory path whether a gunshot wound is in fact a suicide or stab wound. In the case of, for instance, Ellen Greenberg, 10 stabs to the back, not a suicide. In this case, a simple CAT scan would tell me the answer. But guess what? We don't have it. So I want to talk to you about what a trajectory path of a bullet would mean to the skull and what we were just talking about. Oh, your book, your amazing book. Suicide Death Investigation A Scenario Based Approach.
- [13:08]
Frank Milburn
Wow.
- [13:08]
Nancy Grace
Suicide Death Investigation for Death and Crime Investigators. Very impressive, Gentry. We were talking about the scattering of the bones, using this as an example. It's a disturbing example, but criminal law and murder cases are never pretty. Let me see the bones of. Let me go with Kelly Anthony, a two year old little girl. This is what happens when a human body is skeletonized. If Melissa Casillas had been sitting up, propped against a tree for over a year before she's been found in the elements, her bones would not be sitting there like a fake skeleton you get at Halloween spirit to decorate your front yard. No, they would have been scattered. They would have fallen apart. The muscle, the skin, the tissue would no longer be holding the bones together in the human form that we would recognize, they would be scattered. Do you agree or disagree, Jeff Gentry?
- [14:25]
Jeff Gentry
I do agree. I have worked on many skeletal remains cases, bodies that are found out in remote areas, the mountains, desert type areas, waterways, and almost always after the point to where the body can be disarticulated or taken apart. You're going to see body parts in different locations because even small animals like squirrels, rabbits, foxes, those are all going to start chewing at the body. And once all of that muscle and tissue is gone, those bones can be scattered in different locations. You would expect them to be within close proximity to where the majority of the body is. But you would expect to see some form of scattering some of the smaller bones, some of the smaller limbs that can be dragged away by small animals. But then you also have to consider larger animals can scatter too. And so you would expect the remains to be a farther distance out, but you would not generally expect to find an entire intact skeleton. In a case where a body has been outdoors for a significant period of time, and we're talking about 11 months, that's a long time for animals to have access to a body to potentially scatter remains.
- [15:31]
Nancy Grace
I mean, Jeff, you would not find Melissa's skeleton sitting there like a Halloween prop. That's only in the movies. That's not reality. Let me see Kelly again. Kelly's remains, her bones were scattered everywhere. There are over 200 bones in the human body. If you notice, her right foot and her toes were never found. Her digits, even if there's not animal activity, which is unbelievable, in a remote and densely wooded area, the elements themselves, the rain, the wind, the storm, would have strewn her bones to the extent they would be not sitting up like a prop, for one thing. And another thing. What about the gun, Gentry? Was it rusted out? What condition was it in? I mean, this stinks of a disposal site, not a suicide site. And if it is a disposal site, that means this is not a suicide. See where I'm going with this, Gentry?
- [16:47]
Jeff Gentry
That's exactly right. And then you also mentioned about the skull and evidence of a projectile's trajectory. That's one of the key things that we always look at in cases of skeletal remains, because even though you have skeletal remains and the soft tissues are gone, the muscles are gone, the organs are gone. So in a typical case, you'd be able to see gunshot wounds, you'd be able to see trajectory. But in skeletal remains, it's much more difficult. However, you can. Through either CT examination or using a forensic anthropologist, you can identify injuries on the bones that you normally can't see in other type cases. And especially that skull is going to be critical because that can in itself, just the trajectory of the bullet, determine whether this is a suicide versus a homicide. But in this case, we don't even have a bullet hole, which is beyond puzzling because 90, you know, a huge percentage of suicides are by gunshot wound to the head. If somebody's going to use a firearm, and if you don't see that, then you have to start thinking along another path. Why is this not your typical that you would see in a death investigation? And then when you start adding all of these different elements that are atypical in your investigation, you really have to start thinking, is this really a suicide? Or are we looking at something else, maybe like a homicide or something that is completely unexplained? Why is this person out in. In a remote area? Why do they not have your typical injuries that you would see in a suicide investigation.
- [18:11]
Nancy Grace
Jeff Gentry I really, I really respect you. I do. And I have absorbed and agree with everything you've just said. Everything you've said, except that last part. Maybe a homicide. What if it's not a suicide?
- [18:28]
Karen & Georgia (My Favorite Murder)
What?
- [18:28]
Nancy Grace
She just hiked to the top of a mountain and had a heart attack? She sat down next to a tree and willed herself to die. There's two choices. There's not an accident, apparently not a suicide. Not natural causes. There's only one possibility. It's homicide. And this is a disposal site. You were mentioning skeletonized bodies. When you are murdered, unless it's a soft tissue injury such as a manual or ligature strangulation, you're going to find a bullet. You'll find a bullet either in the body, in the skull or nearby here. Do we know the gun was fired? What condition is the gun in? Is the body sitting intact like a Halloween prop, as we have been told? And more importantly, does a CAT scan, a CT reveal the trajectory path? And does the skeleton itself show a gunshot entry, entry and or exit, or a nick from a knife of some sort? We've seen that in other cases where the body has been skeletonized. These are serious questions. And why don't we have a C O D cause of death? It's really hard to know what will work for weight loss and what's worth your time. Hers now offers access to an affordable range of FDA approved GLP1 medications, including the Wegovy pill and Wegovy Pen. With WeGovy at hers, you can lose up to 20% or more of your body weight when you combine it with diet and exercise. If prescribed your medication delivered right to your door, you get a personalized treatment plan and unlimited dosage changes as needed. Ready to reach your goals? Visit forhers.com to get personalized affordable care that gets you. That's F O R h e r s.com Nancy Forhers.com Nancy Weight loss by hers is not available in all 50 states. WeGovy is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk as to get started and learn more, including important safety information, WeGovy clinical study information and restrictions, visit forhers.com crime stories is so proud to be supported by Grand Canyon University, an affordable, private, nonprofit Christian university based in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona. GCU doesn't settle for the status quo, they shatter it at gcu. Academically rigorous, industry driven programs are built to move at the speed of relevance with practical skills, career readiness and opportunity for every learner. And GCU believes education should not be a privilege, but an affordable path forward for all. In fact, they've kept tuition at the same rate on their traditional campus for the past 17 years and they're continuing that into the 2026-2027 academic year. Grounded in Christian faith, GCU works to empower the next generation to to lead with integrity, serve with purpose and help transform their communities. Building a future that matters. GCU is purpose Driven education. Take action. Find your purpose at GCU, Private Christian Affordable Nonprofit. Visit gcu.edu to learn more.
- [22:21]
America 250 Announcer
This July 4th, come celebrate at America's Block Party hosted by America 250. America's Block Party is a can't miss 4th of July concert. Have a happening at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum.
- [22:31]
Experience music, performances by major artists, patriotic tributes and the kickoff to giving 4th, helping to make July 4th the largest day of giving in American history.
- [22:40]
It's more than just fireworks.
- [22:42]
Join this landmark celebration and get your America's Block Party Tickets now for $17.76 at america250.org LA introducing the all new
- [22:53]
Mazda CX5 Advertiser
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- [23:22]
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- [23:53]
Nancy Grace
crime stories with Nancy Grace. Lauren Conlon joining us. Very well known now investigative reporter, she is the co star of Pop Crime TV and I would like to point out she was the one, the only one with the backbone in in D.C. a couple of days ago to ask about the missing scientists because now suddenly all we're hearing about is the UFO doc drop. She asked about the missing scientists. Guess what? Nobody answered. They acted like they didn't hear her. They heard you Lauren. But before I get to all that Lauren Conlon, what more can you tell us about the discovery of Cassias his body? What do you know?
- [24:51]
Lauren Conlon
Well I've been in touch with The New Mexico State Police, and they have been very responsive to me. It is the pio, the Press Information Officer, and she has indicated she is going back and forth with investigators to see if they can disclose what they have. Because I submitted a FOIA request for the autopsy report and I was denied actually two days ago. And not because, you know, they couldn't give it to me or wouldn't give it to me. It's because they, they don't have it completed yet, Nancy. So I like you, I am waiting for the facts. All we know officially right now is that there was not an initial projectile in the skull, as you mentioned, and this photo of Melissa and her daughter, it breaks my heart. Nancy, all of everything you said, the fact that Melissa took medication with her, her toothbrush with her, that really tells me that she wasn't planning on taking her own life. So I just want answers. I feel for her family.
- [25:51]
Nancy Grace
Right. Her reading glasses and a supply of thyroid medication. Also, we do know New Mexico police let it slip that there was a fracture to the skull. Okay. Another nuclear lab worker who worked with McCasland. Let's see him, please. Somehow I'm convinced that McCasland is in the center of all this. He just walked out of his home, never to be seen again. Even a sweatshirt that we think he may have been wearing that had US army on it, the military on it, was found discarded by the side of the road. He just walked away, never seen again. He was connected to Cassias is connected to many of the other scientists, but no one is following up. Joining me now, in addition to Lauren, Jeff Gentry, John Nance, Frank Milburn is with us and Glenn Ann Johnson. Glenn Ann is a former weapons engineer. Let that sink in just for a moment. At the U.S. department of Defense. Why do we keep hearing Huntsville? That is where a NASA installation exists. And there is also a very, you know, to us laypeople, mysterious lab there as well. She worked at Kirkland Air Force Base in New Mexico where McCaslin worked. She worked at the Naval Surface War Center. She has worked on multiple high tech military weapons, including DEW lasers, nukes for the Navy and Air Force. Glenn Ann, are you tired of hearing about highly, highly influential US scientists and lab workers just walking away and committing suicide like it is said Amy Eskridge did after she told Milburn, if I end up dead, I did not commit suicide. Know that now, Cassias.
- [28:08]
Glenn Ann Johnson
So I don't believe any of them committed suicide. And I think we're actually, I think the reason that the reporter got crickets in D.C. is because there's a full investigation ongoing where I think we're kind of at an old fashioned Moscow rules. And in the old days it was an unwritten rule that if you kill one of our people, we kill one of yours. You know, United States and Russia. I think this is ongoing with scientists right now. I think they're being maybe kidnapped and then interrogated and then murdered. And I think they're making some of them look like suicide so that it's more deniable and it won't have a full investigation. But there's so many of them at this point that it's occurred to that it doesn't make any sense. In Amy's case and in my case personally, we were. She was being hit with directed energy weapons and I have been as well. I escalated my case up to the Department of, well, the Office of Director of National Intelligence and the Federal Communications Commission because I'm also a non ionizing radiation safety officer in addition to being an engineer. But I found through discovery that I had radiation cataracts that are the hallmark of these weapons use. And I used to be the THAAD and GMD engineer at Huntsville, Alabama. And I think I started getting targeted there for my defense work. I think Neil McCaslin was targeted and had a background in directed energy weapons. His wife said he had brain fog before he left. I think he knew he was being attacked. And unfortunately with some of these different countries and brics nations, they attack our family as well. For my particular case, my son has had to move in with a different person because he was having nosebleeds, headaches, all these different effects from being attacked by these same weapons. So I think he probably wanted to, you know, preserve his wife and try to reverse engineer what happened to to him.
- [30:15]
Nancy Grace
In addition to Glenn Ann Johnson, who had top security and worked in Huntsville, Frank Milburn is joining us. Frank, former British intelligence officer, knew Amy Eskridge very well. He spoke to Amy just hours before her death where she reiterated the attacks on her, her suspicions about what was going on. She actually considered other countries or corporate espionage. She was heavily involved in research regarding anti gravity technology as well as directed energy weapons. Frank Milburn, another nuclear lab worker, commits suicide. There's no bullet in the skull. There's a fractured skull. Her phones, two of them work and private. Wiped clean. She went to go visit her daughter. Let's see the shot of Melissa Casillas with her daughter. She went to see her daughter that afternoon. Brought her daughter a subway sandwich. Left as if nothing was wrong. There's no way she would have left that daughter behind. Because I can tell you this, Frank, as they progress into their teens and get ready to go to college, they need you more than they did when they were a little bitty baby using a bottle. She would never have left that daughter. So I reject the theory of suicide, just like I reject it with Amy Eskridge, who swore vehemently to you she would never commit suicide.
- [32:07]
Karen & Georgia (My Favorite Murder)
Suicide.
- [32:08]
Nancy Grace
There's no bullet in the skull, there's no bullet in the body, there's no bullet on the scene. So where's the bullet? Why is her body propped up like a prop in a Hollywood movie that defies what I know about skeletonization of bodies a year later in a remote, densely wooded area, that would not happen. Yet we're supposed to believe it. Frank?
- [32:36]
Frank Milburn
Yeah, I find that particularly bizarre as well, because her pattern of life certainly didn't point to her wanting to end her own life. And if the body was staged that way, then why so sloppy? Because the whole point of if it were a staged suicide, then why be so sloppy about it? Because you go to the other hole point of having a staged suicide is that you don't have to get rid of the body and it doesn't look like a homicide. So if you have a missing body or you have a body that's obviously, you know, subject of murder, and that defeats the whole purpose. So if you're going to go to the whole trouble of staging a suicide, why, why would it be so sloppy? That's the question that I have to ask with regards to Amy Eskridge. The whole, yes, I have, you know, major questions about her suicide and the circumstances surrounding it. I find it very questionable. But also what I find even more questionable as well is the extent to which certain people on social media who she accused of corporate espionage, and there are three different people accusing these individuals of corporate espionage as well, too. Aside from Amy Eskridge, why the efforts to still paint her as crazy, off her medication, not a credible scientist, when she had made these allegations? Because I find in my experience, when people are trying to do smear campaigns and engage in defamation against people, whether they're dead or alive, those are the people who are maybe themselves guilty and who have something to hide. Otherwise, why engage in a smear campaign of somebody who's been dead for such a relatively long period?
- [34:16]
Lauren Collin
Amy Eskridge, her case is somewhat of an outlier, but it's worth investigating. I mean, we had Michael Shellenberger come to our hearing back in 2024. And in his testimony, he provided information from a researcher, Frank Milburn, who was a retired UK intelligence official, who Amy had reached out to and asked to investigate some of the harassment, some of the weird things that were happening with her. And he determined that she was the victim of a directed energy weapon and that she was likely murdered by a US aerospace company.
- [34:49]
Nancy Grace
That is Representative Eric Burleson. From our friends at Fox News, what is a directed energy weapon? What is a directed energy weapon? To Frank Milburn, what is it?
- [35:08]
Frank Milburn
Yeah, well, in, in this context, when we're talking about Amy Eskridge, we're talking about a directed microwave energy weapon, which is actually projection of microwave energy which causes very deleterious effects to the body. In terms of the anomalous health incidents that we've heard about, the so called Havana Syndrome, a lot of those have been related to a projection of acoustic energy which also causes that has deleterious health effects. But directed energy weapons in general, you know, it could be laser as well. It's any projection of energy and that are used in weapons. You also have them. For example, acoustic directed energy weapons can be used in crowd control as well to cause nausea, to cause people to desist from violent acts or what they're doing. In Amy's case, well documented, her and another scientist you can hear in the background, well documented, that case where the direct energy weapon against one of the cases only where it actually melted the aluminium blinds onto the window and you can actually see the outline of her spine, which was particularly disturbing. And in that video you have two scientists who are professionally highly capable of describing exactly what's happening to them. In that instance, Amy said that it was effectively a use of a directed energy weapon as a surveillance device to effectively map what she was doing on the keyboard because she had removed the card from her computer because she was working on a highly sensitive proposal for the Department of Homeland Security
- [36:39]
Dave Mack
Foreign
- [36:42]
Nancy Grace
it's really hard to know what will work for weight loss and what's worth your time. Hers now offers access to an affordable range of FDA approved GLP1 medications, including the Wegovy pill and Wegovy pen. With WeGovy at hers, you can lose up to 20% or more of your body weight when you combine it with diet and exercise. If prescribed your medication delivered right to your door, you get a personalized treatment plan and unlimited dosage changes as needed. Ready to reach your goals? Visit fourhers.com Nancy to get personalized affordable care that gets you that's F O-R-H-E-R-S.com Nancy forhers.com Nancy weight loss by hers is not available in all 50 states. WeGovy is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk as To get started and learn more, including important safety information, WeGovy clinical study information and restrictions, visit for hers.com crime stories is so proud to be supported by Grand Canyon University, an affordable, private, nonprofit Christian university based in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona. GCU doesn't say settle for the status quo, they shatter it at gcu. Academically rigorous, industry driven programs are built to move at the speed of relevance with practical skills, career readiness and opportunity for every learner. And GCU believes education should not be a privilege, but an affordable path forward for all. In fact, they've kept tuition at the same rate on their traditional campus and for the past 17 years, and they're continuing that into the 2026-2027 academic year. Grounded in Christian faith, GCU works to empower the next generation to lead with integrity, serve with purpose, and help transform their communities, building a future that matters. GCU is Purpose Driven Education. Take action. Find your purpose at GCU Private Christian, affordable nonprofit. Visit GCU EDU to learn more.
- [39:04]
America 250 Announcer
This July 4th, come celebrate at America's Block Party hosted by America 250. America's Block Party is a can't miss 4th of July concert happening at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum.
- [39:14]
Experience music, performances by major artists, patriotic tributes and the kickoff to giving 4th, helping to make July 4th the largest day of the giving in American history.
- [39:24]
It's more than just fireworks.
- [39:26]
Join this landmark celebration and get your America's Block Party Tickets now for $17.76 at america250.org LA introducing the all new
- [39:37]
Mazda CX5 Advertiser
Mazda CX5 featuring more connection hey Google, where's the nearest Pilates class? Safety that has your back? More discovery on the scenic routes, more passion in the details and more control in changing weather. The all new Mazda CX5 more to move every side of you. See it in five films at mazdausa.com fivesides Google is a trademark of Google LLC. Sequences shortened and simulated.
- [40:06]
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- [40:21]
Nancy Grace
crime stories with Nancy Grace. Frank. You know, directed energy weapons. See, when I'm assessing the scene of Melissa Casillas's remains where they were found propped up like a Hollywood prop in a horror movie, I think of bullets. I hear about a skull fracture, I think about blunt object injury. You're talking about directed energy weapon. It's an advanced system that damages targets or destroys them using electromagnetic energy like a laser or a microwave rather than a kinetic projectile. And when I say kinetic projectile, I mean a bullet. Now, we know that the Havana Syndrome is real. We know that American citizens overseas for the military have suffered from Havana Syndrome. How is a DEW directed energy weapon different from Havana Syndrome? In regular people talk, please.
- [41:27]
Frank Milburn
Frank Milbert Effectively, now you can mount these directed energy weapons with the power source, the batteries that power them. You can have them in the back of a van or a larger pickup truck. And whether it's an acoustic directed energy weapon or a microwave directed energy weapon, this is possible to have this technology. In fact, it was 2023 or 2024 that there was a Russian GRU that's Russian military intelligence, was actually caught in the United States and this was mentioned in a congressional hearing in 2024. He was caught in the United States with this type of equipment in a vehicle. So it's completely portable. You can park it up somewhere, establish somebody's pattern of life and then you can zap them with either an acoustic or a micro energy weapon. And this is a, it's a sort of like what you could below the radar because you can use it slowly over a period of time depending on the amount of energy that's emitted. So it doesn't have the kind of effect you're not going into somebody's apartment while they're sleeping and shooting them or doing something or bludgeoning them to death or doing. That's very, very, it's like that this is something that you could do over a period of time.
- [42:32]
Nancy Grace
So we have to accept Frank Milburn and Jeff Gentry Anglin Johnson the public has to accept that there are other methods of injury other than those with which we are familiar, like a bullet, like a blunt object. We know Havana Syndrome is documented first reported in 2016 by the U.S. and Canadian embassies staff in Havana. Since then there have been similar incidences affecting diplomats, intelligence officers, military personnel worldwide. Now we're talking about a different technology, D E W directed energy weapon. Glenn Ann Johnson do you believe that Melissa Cassias injuries could have been caused? See, I'm going with the good old fashioned bullet or blunt object because I understand that, but with your knowledge, Glenn Ann do you believe she could have succumbed to a D E W?
- [43:39]
Glenn Ann Johnson
It's possible. I think she was probably in terror. I think she was hit with Directed energy weapons to get her to leave her family to protect them. And I think that she was probably. Probably interrogated, which may have involved some kinetic attacks to her skull and what have you. But I think that she was lured away from her home by the directed energy weapons.
- [44:02]
Nancy Grace
Could a dew cause a skull fracture?
- [44:06]
Glenn Ann Johnson
Theoretically, yes.
- [44:07]
Nancy Grace
Okay, I heard the big theoretically right there. So I'm going to go with bullet or blunt object, because I know that there was a skull fracture. According to New Mexico authorities, Lauren Conlon. There's so much to delve into regarding Melissa Casillas, because that was a ruse. She took her husband to work that morning. He was also a lab worker. Then after she drove him through, the driver in that facility has to show their own badge. You can't show, hey, here's his badge, and pull him through. She drops him off and she said, I, oh, I left my badge at home. She just used her badge, but he wasn't thinking. Okay, so she's going back home to get her badge. That was not true. Then she said she was going to work from home. Well, why go through all that to get your badge to get into your office if you're going to work from home? Then she goes and sees her daughter, and then suddenly she disappears. Okay, I want to talk to you first. I want to play you trying to get answers out of D.C. fat chance. Listen to this, everybody.
- [45:15]
Lauren Conlon
Nothing. Red Burchett, nothing on the missing scientist. General McCaslin.
- [45:20]
Lauren Collin
Shady.
- [45:20]
Frank Milburn
Y' all in the media. You'll figure it out. Of course there's something going on yet. 14 rabbis, 14 preachers, 14 used car salesmen disappeared. You'd be asking questions.
- [45:33]
Nancy Grace
What was that about the rabbi, the preacher, and the used car. You know what? I don't want to knock around in his head. No offense. I want to talk about the facts as we know them. Can we talk about McCasland? By the way, that's from Lauren Collin, four on TikTok. And here she is in the flesh. Can we talk about McCasland? Because he kicked the whole thing off. I mean, his credentials are incredible. First of all, who is McCasland, Lauren?
- [46:04]
Lauren Conlon
Well, he is pretty much more credentialed, I would say, than any president we've had in about two decades. But he oversaw 80% of the Pentagon's black ops project. He was a retired Air Force general. He was stationed at Wright Patterson, obviously the Air Force Research Lab. And Nancy, I had a very successful FOIA request fulfilled last week, where I was given by the Bernalillo Sheriff's Office the Last known photo of General McCaslin the day before he went missing. And I was in shock because I am thinking, why am I the one putting this out? Why didn't law enforcement or the FBI put this out? And not only that, in the police report, in one of the police reports, anyway, they indicate that the FBI did in fact join the investigation on March 3rd. So I've reached out to them as well. But I will say, parsing through this and going through all of the body cam footage, all of the interviews, you learn a lot about General McCaslin's last few months. And it is very heartbreaking. There are certain things that don't add up. But also I do want to point out that friends said that starting in January, he wasn't himself. He was actually in the process of looking for a doctor to diagnose whatever he thought that he had.
- [47:28]
Nancy Grace
Isn't it true to Dave Mack, crime stories investigative reporter who has been on the missing scientists and lab workers from the beginning that McCasland had multiple senior Pentagon roles. He oversaw nuclear research at Los Alamos National Lab. He oversaw two the missing people. Raisa, remember, she just disappeared in a densely wooded area while hiking. Dogs couldn't find her, drones couldn't find her. She's gone. And Chavez, and he is linked to Cassias, right? I mean, there are connections between all of them. But McCasland, McCasland, who just walked away with no identification on him, to me, had connections to so many of the others.
- [48:27]
Dave Mack
Dave Mack, one linchpin for the money attached to all the research. Nancy, you gotta remember, McCaslin was the air Force Research Laboratory head at Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio. This is a position that he stayed at until he retired. And he was dealing with billions, not millions, but billions of dollars in advanced material sciences and future weapons research across the nation. And all of our. All of our centers that we were investigating. So all the research that was being done, all the funding that came for that research went through McCaslin's hand. That's why he was aware of everybody that was moving around. And he's there in Albuquerque, New Mexico, which is where Kirtland Air Force Base is. That's where he retired after leaving Wright Patterson in Ohio. Well, what do we know about these areas? They are huge in the UFO research that has been done. And McCaslin is connected to all of these things.
- [49:32]
Nancy Grace
He goes missing in Albuquerque, New Mexico. So does Steven Garcia. Melissa Casillas, New Mexico. Monica Jacinta Reza vanishes from LA Anthony Chavez, New Mexico. What is the connection of the afrl, Dave Mack, the Air Force Research Lab, it's based at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. And that. Right, Pat? Studies reportedly extraterrestrial technology. I also noticed that Cassias and Chavez disappear within weeks of each other. What about that day?
- [50:19]
Dave Mack
Just within weeks, Nancy? Yeah, it's shocking how quickly a lot of these happened and the mysterious way that they happen. But going back to what McCasland was over at Wright Patterson, it's interesting that Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque and Wright Patterson in Ohio, those are the two locations that are well known in the UFO community where research has been conducted and when you hate to do this because it seems like I'm going crazy, but you know the Roswell incident in 47, 48, the material allegedly found there was shipped to Wright Patterson.
- [51:02]
Nancy Grace
Are you talking about an alleged extraterrestrial alien? Is that. Just say it. I don't care. I want to hear what you're saying. Don't dance around the facts. Whether they're accepted or not, I still want to hear them. Even if I can destroy them on cross exam, I want to hear them. Go ahead.
- [51:21]
Dave Mack
Well, the Roswell incident, Nancy, is one of the most famous incidents of all time. Happened in 1947 outside of Roswell, New Mexico. Reportedly, multiple UFO craft were found crashed in this remote area by a guy named Mac Brazil, who was a rancher. He brought some of the material he found in town. He appeared on a radio station and did an interview about what he found. And the next morning, the new. Or that afternoon, rather, the local newspaper reported that a flying saucer had been captured on that ranch.
- [51:58]
Nancy Grace
Dave Mack, what does any of that have to do. You're dredging up ancient history. What does that have to do with McCaslin or Cassias or Jacinta Reza? Film, film. Fill me in. What's your. In one sentence, what's your connector?
- [52:17]
Dave Mack
What was found in Roswell, New Mexico, was shipped to Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio. And that's where McCaslin spent the last years of his career controlling and doling out billions of dollars in research that went to all of the people you just mentioned.
- [52:36]
Nancy Grace
The total is now up to 18 missing or dead scientists. And I want you to listen to this. You've got McCaslin, who just walked away and never seen again. Schaefer, who died in custody on a contested claim. Jacinta Reza just seemingly just beamed up out of a heavily wooded area she's never seen again. Chavez, still missing. Cassias now claims she committed suicide, although no COD has been offered. There's no bullet, which means no suicide. Garcia, Missing Maywald, no cause of death since 2024. Jason Thomas is found dead in a pond. Michael David Hicks. It was said he died of obesity. Okay. Amy Eskridge, David Wilcock, Joshua LeBlanc, Matthew Sullivan, top clearance. Ning Lee, renowned scientist, walks in front of a car. Ingrid Lane, still missing after a boulder attacked her car. But where was her body? Kevin Childress, dead on the sofa. Okay, Glennann Johnson, weapons Engineer with the U.S. department of Defense. What do you make of the list I just gave you?
- [54:19]
Glenn Ann Johnson
Well, it's happening. What happened to them is happening to a lot of people with top secret clearance that had nothing to do with UFOs and found foreign malicious code and parts in US systems, especially US Air Force systems. And they changed my medical records to say that I had anxiety, mental depression, things that I've never had. And it was from medical records from Vanderbilt, a place I've never been. So they were setting it up to do the same thing to me. It's happening to my friends that own companies that found code injections from the same locations. Huntsville, Alabama, and Kirtland Air Force Base, New Mexico. So I think that all of these people's connection is that they tried to stop terrorism and counterterrorism from occurring. They blew the whistle on something, and there are people, bad actors, that murdered them for it, and they made it look like a suicide. That's what I think is happening.
- [55:18]
Nancy Grace
Frank Milburn. So often I've seen in criminal prosecutions and investigations, different jurisdictions do not cooperate. So we don't understand, for instance, one person killing many people. Here's a great example. Frank d', Angelo, the Golden State Killer. He went from multiple jurisdictions, as did Israel Keys. Nobody connected any of the dots, so they just kept killing.
- [55:45]
Glenn Ann Johnson
Here.
- [55:46]
Nancy Grace
We're not connecting the dots. How can so many scientists just commit suicide, even though they say, I would never kill myself? If you read that, that's not true. One ends up at the bottom of a lake. One ends up propped up against a tree like a Hollywood prop. I mean, it just goes on and on. One's dead on a sofa, one dies of obesity, one dies of an OD of bedwetting medication just before they're set to speak to Congress. It's just weigh in.
- [56:22]
Frank Milburn
Well, it stretches credulity. And in the case specifically, we can talk about, you know, Amy Eskridge, Aidan Schaefer, both deceased, both accused one particular entity and group of people of corporate espionage and also extremely violent crimes. As well, these are allegations. There's also a person who's still alive, who worked with the same people that Aidan Shaffer and Amy Eskridge work with, who makes the same allegations. And these are all documented and recorded online, and I've provided them to you. So I find it very, very strange that somebody would go to such lengths to do, hit pieces on Aidan Schaeffer and Amy Eskridge after they're dead, before they're dead, you know, while they're still alive. So why would you do, you know, this kind of like a stitch up job, effectively, you know, a hit job on people, unless you want to discredit them because you are trying to cover something up yourself.
- [57:10]
Nancy Grace
To John Nance joining us, former supervisory Special agent with the FBI. John, what do you think?
- [57:21]
John Nance
Well, taken in the aggregate, I think it's undeniable that something nefarious is occurring. And by the way, we haven't really touched on this yet, but there's historical perspective on this as well. In the 1950s, a number of scientists associated with the Manhattan Project disappeared, died under mysterious circumstances. And then in the 80s, you have 25 scientists, technicians associated with Reagan's Star wars missile defense system that died, quote, unquote, committed suicide under incredibly strange circumstances. In fact, one of the instances, a, one of the individuals was found in his vehicle with a rope tied around his neck, one end tied to a tree. The vehicle was moved forward and, and caused that individual to, quote, unquote, strangled to death, which was the alleged mode of suicide. So it doesn't surprise me that we have an FBI investigation, especially with regard to McCaslin's case. Another very interesting to me feature of these cases has to do with Sullivan, who you mentioned earlier, who supposedly committed suicide with bedwetting medication. Well, Sullivan was scheduled to testify before Congress about UAP matters. David Grush, just not long ago, I think a week or so ago, said that McCaslin was on the short list to testify before Congress about UAP matters. So all of these connection points, these data points, suggest to me that something nefarious is certainly occurring. Now, you know, whether Maria was, you know, the victim of directed energy weapons or not, I, I don't know. I haven't heard anything substantive as to that particular matter. But the way her body was positioned, I agree with your analysis. I think to suggest that that was a suicide is absurd. The fact that her bones were not scattered suggests to me that the body was placed there. The skull fracture to me indicates obviously perhaps some sort of blunt force trauma. So very, very Mysterious circumstances. I think all of this suggests and warrants detailed investigation from the FBI. And just because you're not hearing about it from the bureau in particular doesn't mean it's not occurring. The FBI is notoriously tight lipped and for good reason about investigations. They're, they're in the middle of conducting.
- [60:09]
Nancy Grace
Jeff Gentry Forensic certified bloodstain pattern analyst, Senior crime scene Analyst Death investigator, former toxicology lab analyst, author of Forensic Science Applications to Death and Crime Scene Investigations and more.
- [60:24]
Jeff Gentry
JEFF Nancy, I have handled thousands of death investigations over the course of my career and anytime that you have a larger number than normal of a certain type of death, you should be concerned. Most deaths are natural causes and they're pretty straightforward investigations. So you would expect with this number of scientists that have been missing, you would expect that maybe one or two, three could be abnormal types of deaths like accidents or suicides. But you don't expect the majority of them to be suicides or accidents or homicides in these cases. So if you have those abnormally skewed statistics, you really have to take a deeper dive into this. You have to ask why are these people with brilliant minds ending up essentially crazy at the end of their lives? So that's what I would be looking into. I want to know why this has occurred, why there are abnormal statistics related to these scientists way outside of what you would normally expect in normal death investigation cases.
- [61:24]
Nancy Grace
Lauren Collin Investigative reporter Lauren, what do you make of this most recent development?
- [61:32]
Lauren Conlon
None of this makes sense to me at all. Also, General McCaslin, he and his wife, you know, they had discussed his, his state of mind, but his wife said they never talked about his feelings on suicide. This, this never would have crossed her mind. She didn't think it would have crossed his mind. So the fact that that's also coming up because General McCaslin did leave with a.38 caliber, I mean, it's fishy, it's suspicious, and it's just, it's beyond frustrating.
- [62:01]
Nancy Grace
If you know or think you know anything regarding the missing and dead scientists and lab workers, please dial 800, call FBI 800, call FBI, 225-5324. We remember American hero, Captain Christopher Garrow, New York State Police. Died as a result of being a hero in the September 11th attacks. Served our country for 23 years, leaving behind his wife Gillian, and two daughters, Ella and Maggie. American hero, Captain Christopher Garrow. Thank you to our guests, but especially you for being with us tonight.
- [62:47]
Karen & Georgia (My Favorite Murder)
Night.
- [62:48]
Nancy Grace
Nancy Gray signing off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night and until then, good night, friend.
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Nancy Grace
Dad, Lingokids, please. When did we become the Lingokids house?
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Lauren Conlon
No idea. Last week it was dinosaurs.
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Frank Milburn
Why Lingokids?
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Glenn Ann Johnson
Because it's the best thing ever.
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Nancy Grace
We can play games with astronauts, wild animals and superheroes.
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Nancy Grace
So no dinosaurs and dinosaurs. Everything kids love. Download it for free. Professional wrestling fans, the action continues every week.
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Glenn Ann Johnson
This is total non stop action.
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Nancy Grace
TNA Thursday Night Impact Every week on AMC. For showtimes and more information visit TNA radio wrestling. Com this is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.