MOM'S FRANTIC PLEA AFTER BABY EMMANUEL, 7 MONTHS, 'KIDNAPPED' NOW FACING COURT

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: MOM'S FRANTIC PLEA AFTER BABY EMMANUEL, 7 MONTHS, 'KIDNAPPED' NOW FACING COURT
Date: May 9, 2026
Host: Nancy Grace
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts and CrimeOnline

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Overview

This episode centers on the tragic and suspicious disappearance of 7-month-old Baby Emmanuel Harrow, whose mother, Rebecca Hutto (a.k.a. Rebecca Harrow), is now facing murder and false reporting charges. Nancy Grace investigates the complex and disturbing circumstances of the case: the initial claims of a parking lot kidnapping, the odd behaviors of both parents, their legal maneuvers, and the haunting backdrop of prior severe child abuse involving the infant’s older sister. Through rigorous debate with legal and forensic experts, Nancy peels back the inconsistencies and emotional undertones, exposing systemic failures and questioning what really happened to baby Emmanuel.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Timeline & Initial Events

• The Kidnapping Claim
  • Rebecca Hutto alleges an attack in a Big Five sporting goods store parking lot while changing Emmanuel’s diaper; claims an unknown man said “hola” before attacking her and abducting Emmanuel. [02:04]
  • Law enforcement initiates a large-scale search involving helicopters, K-9 units, and multiple agencies. [01:47; 02:04]
  • The body of Emmanuel has not been found, fueling rumors that he “will never be found.” [01:08]

2. Suspicious Behavior Surrounding the Parents

• Dad’s Odd Reaction:
  • Jake Harrow, Emmanuel’s father, visits a nearby store soon after the abduction, asking for info but displaying no visible tears, only exaggerated expressions. He wears a hoodie in 90-degree heat and is seen lingering in the empty parking lot, not searching for his son. [03:02–05:12]
  • Store witnesses report his affect is “off” and emotion seems staged. [05:12–07:32]
• Forensic Psychology Perspective:
  • Dr. John de la Torre supports trusting such “hunches,” explaining this intuitive response is a valid product of human evolution, especially for service workers accustomed to reading people. [07:32]
• Expert Views on Parental Grief:
  • Legal and child protection professionals argue if and how emotional responses (or lack thereof) indicate guilt. Although emotional displays vary, experts note that parents of missing children are typically frantic and can’t control their emotions. [09:01–12:46]
• Failure to Actively Search:
  • Instead of frantically searching, the parents hang out in the parking lot with family; experts agree this is highly suspect and out of character with most “real” missing child cases. [13:06; 13:22]

3. Mother’s Surveillance Inquiry: Pre-Kidnapping "Casing"

• Rebecca is reported to have visited the same Big Five store days before the incident, claiming her car was vandalized and inquiring about parking lot surveillance. Employees find this odd, suspecting she was “casing” the location. [16:14–18:52]
• Former law enforcement and forensic experts emphasize that such a move is highly suspicious, possibly to check for cameras ahead of a planned event. [17:27–18:52]

4. Legal Strategies and Courtroom Dynamics

• Defense Tactics:
  • Philip Dubay, trial lawyer, downplays behavioral indicators and criticizes attempts to draw guilt from demeanor or attire, suggesting that no “playbook” exists for parental grief. [08:26–09:38; 19:23–21:52]
  • Dubay outlines how he would challenge eyewitnesses and contest claims of staging.
• Polygraph Refusal:
  • Jake Harrow refuses a polygraph without counsel, explained by Dubay as caution against “imperfect science.” Grace and others, however, see this as damning and suspicious for an innocent parent. [22:12–23:32]
• Court Proceedings:
  • Both parents plead not guilty; Rebecca is described as shut off, unresponsive in court; both are in protective custody in jail due to the nature of their charges. [25:14; 42:30]

5. Press Conferences & Public Perception

• The Harrows hold their own press conference before police do; media experts and Nancy note their affect seems performative, with voice “cracking” but no genuine distress observed. [14:52–16:05]

6. History of Family Abuse and Systemic Failures

• Severe Past Child Abuse:
  • Outrage erupts over the fact that Jake Harrow previously pled guilty to brutal abuse of his older daughter (now known as Promise Faith/Catalina) as an infant: multiple broken bones, skull fracture, brain hemorrhage, and (now) lifelong cerebral palsy. [28:24–29:43]
  • Despite the severity, Judge Dwight W. Moore gave Harrow probation and work release.
    • Quote (Mike Hestrin, DA, 33:34):
      "If that judge had done his job as he should have done, Emmanuel would be alive today."
  • Medical experts explain how repeated trauma can induce cerebral palsy in infants. [29:00–29:43]
• DA Intervention:
  • Riverside County DA Mike Hestrin and Nancy Grace both hammer the systemic failure that let Harrow out—directly connecting judicial leniency to Emmanuel’s disappearance and presumed death. [33:34; 37:04]
• Witness Testimony:
  • Other store employees consistently describe Rebecca as scouting surveillance systems prior to the “kidnapping.” [16:14–18:20]

7. Likelihood of Recovery & Neighbor Reports

• Search Challenges:
  • Emmanuel’s body is believed to be unrecoverable due to the local terrain (remote, wild, with scavengers like coyotes and mountain lions). [38:28–41:12]
• Investigator on Recovery Odds:
  • Private investigator Steve Fisher affirms that even animal-scattered remains can sometimes be found by dogs, but searches appear to have stopped, further hampering chances of finding Emmanuel. [40:09]

8. Discussion on Parental Culpability and Plea Strategies

• Experts' Opinions:
  • Most guests express little doubt both parents are involved; Allie Neal, child advocate, goes so far as to state:
    • "Do I think he did it? 100%. Yes, I absolutely think he did it…he should already be in jail for the other child abuse." [34:23]
• Legal Maneuvers:
  • Dubay speculates Rebecca may turn state’s witness, perhaps testifying as a lesser accomplice; Nancy fiercely disputes the idea she could escape severe penalty. [45:27–46:38]

9. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Intuition:
  • Nancy Grace: “When you get an odd sense about somebody, you better listen…hunches are very valid…born of thousands of years of evolution…” [06:16]
• On Courtroom Deflection:
  • Nancy Grace (to Dubay): "Did you say if there even was a murder? You're losing a lot of credibility right now." [46:47]
• Righteous Outrage:
  • Nancy Grace: “He made her deaf, dumb and mute and she can’t walk and she has cerebral palsy. But hey, he actually said from the bench, I’m gonna give you a break… The prosecutor was doing a back flip.” [31:33]
• Predator Patterns:
  • Dr. de la Torre: “The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior...” [41:36]

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Key Timestamps

• 07:32: Dr. de la Torre on human intuition detecting unusual behavior
• 12:46: Steve Fisher, search and rescue, on how frantic “real” parents behave
• 17:11–18:52: Discussion on mother's prior visit, possible surveillance “casing”
• 22:25–23:32: Polygraph refusal and legal explanations vs. public suspicion
• 25:45: Case and charges against Rebecca Hutto reviewed as she appears in court
• 28:24–29:43: Details of prior child abuse against Promise Faith/Catalina
• 33:34: DA Hestrin directly links judicial leniency to Emmanuel’s fate
• 37:04: DA details catalina's injuries; Nancy highlights the brutality
• 41:36–42:23: Dr. de la Torre and Nancy discuss likelihood baby Emmanuel is dead
• 45:27–46:38: Discussion of state’s witness possibilities, Rebecca’s role, and charges

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Tone and Style

• Direct, urgent, justice-driven—Nancy Grace’s signature investigative rigor and outraged empathy set the pace and language.
• Guests range from forensics and law enforcement to legal defense, providing debate and a range of explanations/interpretations.
• Quotes provided in natural, unscripted language.

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Conclusion

Nancy Grace and her expert panel expose how both the facts of Baby Emmanuel’s disappearance and the family’s tragic background of abuse reveal deeply troubling possibilities. The episode drives home recurring failures—from judicial leniency for prior abuse to parental behaviors out of sync with innocence—while demanding accountability for Emmanuel, his sister, and children everywhere failed by those meant to protect them. The investigation continues, with crucial hearings for Rebecca Hutto forthcoming, as the world waits to see if true justice will finally be rendered.

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For further updates on this case, follow Crime Stories with Nancy Grace wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

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[Reporter Dave Mack]

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[Nancy Grace]

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The mother accused in the brutal D death of little baby Emmanuel, just seven months old, appears in court. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Yes, the case against the so called mom Rebecca Hutto moves forward after she is dragged to court in an appearance. She sat with her hair colour covering her face on her right side, blinking rapidly as she faces charges in the death of her baby boy. What happened when baby Emanuel first went missing?

[Nancy Grace]

Where is 7 month old baby Emanuel? Questions swirling. Did the baby disappear nine days before the alleged kidnap when mommy was attacked in the parking lot of a sporting goods store? Was the baby really missing nine days before that? Could he be alive? We haven't found a body yet. Where is baby Emanuel? And why are sources stating this seven month old infant child will quote, never be found? It all starts here.

[Reporter Dave Mack]

Just before 8pm Thursday night, San Bernardino Sheriff's arrive and begin searching the strip mall and parking lot. K9 units are dispatched to the scene as well. Helicopters overhead. San Bernardino Sheriff's Department joined by neighboring Riverside county deputies to aid in a comprehensive search that stretches through the night.

[Nancy Grace]

This was preventable in numerous ways. To Dave Mack, crime Stories investigative reporter. Dave, thank you for being with us. The mom says that she goes to Big five as a sporting goods store to get her other son a mouth guard so he can play sports. That she gets out of the vehicle to change baby Emanuel's diapee. She hears one word from a male hola. And then she's attacked from behind. Hey, she's attacked from behind. Let's see her black eye that she got from that attack from behind that when she wakes up the baby is gone. Is that correct? Yes. No.

[Dave Mack (Crime Stories investigative reporter)]

Yes, that is correct.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, so then she goes into the store. When she comes to and asks has anybody seen the baby? Do I have that right?

[Dave Mack (Crime Stories investigative reporter)]

So far you are correct.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, Dave Mac Then the dad shows up on the scene.

[Reporter Dave Mack]

Listen, Jake Haro shows up at Bada Clothing next to the Big five and talks to assistant manager Liz Mesa. The morning after his son is kidnapped. She says he was trying to appear upset, trying to cry, rubbing his eyes, breathing heavy, but no tears as he asks for help finding his infant son. Haro is wearing a hoodie and it's 90 degrees and the manager is shocked to see that Haro is just walking around the parking lot, not out searching for his son. Mesa says it just felt off.

[Nancy Grace]

He just came in and asked if we had any information to please just let him know. But there was no tears, just exaggerated kind of facial expressions that from our friends at US Sun. Okay, I want to analyze what we've just heard. DAVE mack, now, this is a woman that works at the clothing store next to Big Five, let's say Big Five Sporting Goods. Again, it's a little strip mall. And according to this witness, Liz Mezza, the assistant manager, Harrow, comes in asking for help. Tell me exactly what we learned from her.

[Dave Mack (Crime Stories investigative reporter)]

DAVE mack, well, she says that when he came by that he was trying to look upset. He was, you know, trying to breathe heavy, he was rubbing his eyes. He was trying to act like he was very concerned. And she could tell it was an act because it just wasn't real. There was no, there were no tears, first of. But second of all, he wasn't dressed appropriately for somebody who's going to be out looking for their son on this particular day. He's wearing a hoodie. She points that out because, you know, this is August in California and it's hot. So he had no business to be out looking for his son. And why is he looking in that parking lot? That was the other question she pointed out. They close at 7 o', clock, okay? Their parking lot is absolutely empty. Right next door is a big K, or it's got a parking lot and they're open a little later. But there's not a lot of activity. NANCY and that's what she was trying to point out is that they obviously did not know where they were when they're putting this story out there because it doesn't match the geography, doesn't match the area they're in at all.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, you know what, Dave Mack, I think you've gone too far out on the limb claiming that just because the dad was wearing a hoodie that somehow he's quote, you sound like Prince Andrew who said I couldn't have molested Virginia Giuffre in the Epstein case because those were my traveling clothes. Right. So you're saying this was all wrong because he was wearing a hoodie. Okay, please don't say that anymore. Don't tell that to anybody else, okay, because it's raising a lot of questions about your reporting. But that said, the other part I found really interesting. He came in, asked if we had any info. If so, please let me know. No tears, just exaggerated facial expressions, rubbing his eyes, breathing heavily. Okay, that's interesting because you know what? Dr. John de la Torre Delatorre is a renowned psychologist, a mediator. His specialty is forensic psychology. Dr. De la Torre, I know that this woman that works at the Beta Clothing store beside Big 5 is not a shrink like you. She is not a nonverbal message expert. She's not like a jury consultant that watches all the jurors if their ticks and their quirks to see if they would be good or bad on the jury for their client. But she is a regular person like most of us, that when you get an odd sense about somebody, you better listen. Now a lot of guys, especially men, say, oh, you know, that's just a woman, a nervous woman reading too much into it. I think hunches are very valid and I believe that they are born of thousands of years of evolution that you pick up things you don't even realize you're seeing or hearing or feeling or smelling. I mean, it could be anything. So the fact that he's wearing a hoodie, I don't care. But her feeling that it, quote, just felt off. I want to follow up on that. Delatori.

[Dr. John de la Torre (Forensic Psychologist)]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, no, she's not a mental health professional, but she is a human being. A human being working in the service industry. So she interacts with people all of the time. And all of these people, she never knows who's going to be coming in and for what reason and what, you know, their day to day experiences are. She knows about this case and is expecting to experience something coming off of this man and she doesn't get it. And that's already a red flag, right? Her antenna is already up. So now she's going to be looking at more things. What are the other inconsistencies that are going on when she tells herself, look, if this was my child, this is how I would be comparing those emotional states to the person that she's seeing right in front of her are inconsistent. And that's what makes him just seem more suspect.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, brace yourself. Philip Dubay joining us, veteran trial lawyer out of the LA jurisdiction. Jump in, Dubay.

[Philip Dubay (Trial Lawyer)]

I think it's ridiculous to assume that parents who are in search of a missing child have to follow some type of a blueprint almanac or connect the dots in some way, shape or form to suggest that they're not behaving the way parents who might be in despair would display. Because if you think about it, this is something that may never happen during the course and scope of running a business and certainly during the course and scope of raising children. So I don't know what anybody's talking about in assuming that there was the right way to behave.

[Nancy Grace]

Didn't you tell me on a prior program that you don't have any children? So what do you know about what people are going through raising children? Because I've told you what happened when John David went missing and a Toys R Us wait, babies are us. I did not try to make myself cry.

[Philip Dubay (Trial Lawyer)]

It's self preservation. It's preservation of your family. You don't have to be a parent to know that a kid is missing and that you can kind of pitch in and help find the child. That's absurd. And to suggest that either you know how you're dressed, how you behave, whether or not you're crying should follow that playbook in determining whether or not you're up to no good, I think is an unfair assessment.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, I knew you would say that. Straight out to Ali Neal joining us, co founder, Revved Up Kids. She has been fighting for years to protect children from sex abuse, trafficking and other forms of abuse. Ali, thank you for being with us. Why is Debay saying that? Because you have dealt with so many parents that are suffering because they can't find their child. And I know defense attorneys say there is no playbook, but actually there is a playbook. I've never seen a parent that did not show some sort of emotion when they're looking for a lost child. Allie.

[Ali Neal (Co-founder, Revved Up Kids)]

I would agree with you, Nancy, but I also would agree that everybody has different ways that they show or hide emotion. We can't read his mind. And you know the store clerk. Yes. She was observing what she believed was fake behavior. But none of that's going to hold up in court. His behavior when he walked into that store to ask about.

[Nancy Grace]

Wait, wait, wait. I don't know what you're saying. It won't, quote, hold up in court.

[Ali Neal (Co-founder, Revved Up Kids)]

I mean, the fact that.

[Nancy Grace]

Are you suggesting that if this ever goes to trial, the jury cannot hear evidence of his demeanor at the clothing store? Because that's just bass ackwards. They will hear that and they will wonder like we are, why was he trying to make himself cry?

[Ali Neal (Co-founder, Revved Up Kids)]

They can hear it, but I think the defense would turn around and say, you weren't in his head. You don't know how he responds to, you know, crisis. Some people just shut down. Some people, you know, so it feels like speculation.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, Allie. Okay, Allie. Steve Fisher, let's respond to that. Steve Fisher joining us, missing persons private investigator, search and rescue specialist. You can find him@search investigations.org Steve, you have made a living. This is what you do day in, day out. You find missing people, especially children. You go through all sorts of searches. You do all terrain searches. You've overseen water searches, you've overseen dump site searches. Name it, you've done it. So Steve Ali Neal agrees with Philip Dubay that parents cannot act upset at all when their child is missing. In fact, in this case, the witness says he was trying to make himself cry. Now, I find that very odd behavior. The hoodie doesn't mean anything to me. But the demeanor and what you're about to find out about them just hanging around in the parking lot, not actively looking, like, what do they think baby Emanuel is going to walk back into the parking lot? He's seven months old. But making yourself cry or trying to, that's just wrong. I don't know why they're saying that that's normal.

[Steve Fisher (Missing Persons Private Investigator)]

Yeah, I've never seen, I always see frantic, you know, people that are just, you know, have no control of their emotions, actually, and that they both seem to kind of have that same reaction. To me, it was kind of forced, it was staged and it was, you know, looked like a more of a press opportunity.

[Nancy Grace]

You know what, we have barely touched the tip of the iceberg. So I'm going to move us forward. Listen, if their baby had been kidnapped, they would been out looking for them. Same with like my sisters with their kids. You know, it's just not something to just hang around in a parking lot and then just be mingling with your family.

[Philip Dubay (Trial Lawyer)]

I don't know.

[Nancy Grace]

We close at 7, so for them to stay up at like 7:47, the whole parking lot is empty basically by that time. Back to Dave Mack, that is exactly what you were saying. If there had been a baby kidnapped, they would have been out looking for them. They were just hanging around the parking lot, like hanging out with the family, like tailgating in the parking lot. She goes on to state and that's where our friends at US Sun. We close at 7. So for them to say it happened at 7:47, the whole parking lot is empty. Is that what you were saying earlier, Dave? Mac, explain.

[Dave Mack (Crime Stories investigative reporter)]

Okay, not exactly, Nancy. The store next door to the Big 5 actually closes at 7. And their parking lot is adjacent to the Big 5. Big 5 stays open later than that store next door. But for the most part, the parking lot are fairly empty, certainly empty next to big five. And the big five is thinning out. There's not a lot of activity there after seven o' Clock at night. That's what the manager was trying to say.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, got it, guys. It goes on from there. In the last hours, a lot happening in the case. A lot happening in the search for baby Emanuel.

[Narrator/Host]

Listen, it's appropriate to have a press conference because it was the defendants in this case that had a press conference first. And they did so in order to tell the public, the media, and ultimately law enforcement that their child had been kidnapped.

[Nancy Grace]

I was gonna get the diaper, and somebody said, hola.

[Ali Neal (Co-founder, Revved Up Kids)]

And I don't. I woke up right here on the floor

[Nancy Grace]

and I didn't see Emmanuel.

[Steve Fisher (Missing Persons Private Investigator)]

He was a healthy baby. He was crawling, he was kicking.

[Nancy Grace]

He was playing with his toys.

[Steve Fisher (Missing Persons Private Investigator)]

Whoever took our son,

[Reporter Dave Mack]

please give him back.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm watching his demeanor as he's speaking. His voice seemingly is cracking, but he's not crying and he doesn't look distressed at all. That was my friends at KTLA and ABC7. You were first hearing Mike Hestrin from Riverside County DA's office stating they were having a press conference because the mom and dad had already had their own press conference. With me, special guest, Dr. Eric Eason, board certified forensic pathologist. And you can find him on Facebook at Eric August Eason. Dr. Eason, thank you for being with us. How can she explain that she was attacked from behind but yet has a black eye on the front of her face?

[Reporter Dave Mack]

Yeah, it could have fallen forward, hit something. She could have spun around after being attacked from behind and been punched in the face. Those are all possibilities.

[Nancy Grace]

Dave, I want you to explain to me what Big Five employees state about the mom coming in earlier, before baby Emanuel goes missing, to state that her car had been vandalized.

[Dave Mack (Crime Stories investigative reporter)]

That's exactly what happened. She went to the store and asked, hey, she actually said, my car has been broken into in your parking lot. I'm just wondering, don't have any surveillance cameras pointed in this direction at all that might have been able to capture my car in the parking lot. And can you show me where it is? And she was able to find out exactly what they had for surveillance in the parking lot. So she already knew ahead of time. And by the way, they don't live in that area. It would have been out of the way for her to be at that store any day other than when she was there.

[Nancy Grace]

Dave Mack, when do they say that that happened? That the mom came in stating her car had been vandalized and asking if there were cameras, surveillance cameras, on any of the stores?

[Dave Mack (Crime Stories investigative reporter)]

This is one of those stories, Nancy, where we've been told that she came in three days earlier. We have since they don't have any cameras, we can't actually find video proof that she did that. Nancy. But that is what has been said by employees of the store.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, Steve Fisher, wouldn't it be a matter of getting her cell phone and tracking the cell phone to determine if it had been in the parking lot two or three days earlier?

[Steve Fisher (Missing Persons Private Investigator)]

Absolutely. That's something that Celebrate can do A Celebrate on her phone. They'll be able to find out that information. There's also but I don't think she knew is there's lots of other surveillance cameras that are pointing that are showing that parking lot from across the street and other ways. You know, I actually spoke I actually went to the Big Five and spoke to the employees and that witnessed her come in and they clearly, you know, remember her coming in and it was suspicious to them. And, and then when she came in with the kidnap claim, that's immediately what they thought of. They're like, this lady was here. And what they said to me was earlier in the month, although this happened fairly early in the month. So.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, wait a minute, wait a minute. Steve Fisher, explain exactly what the employees told you.

[Reporter Dave Mack]

Sure.

[Steve Fisher (Missing Persons Private Investigator)]

I went into the Big five. I was there the day after the kidnapping claim started happened, and they told me that she had come in and asked, she had said that her car had been broken into and she wanted to know if there was surveillance because she needed it for the the insurance claim. And they told her that they did not have exterior cameras on the building and that was. That was it. You know, of course, at that time, they don't know what's about to happen a few days later, but that's what they told me.

[Nancy Grace]

Philip Dubay, what about that? Quite the coinky dink, right? Dubai. Don't you just hate it when your clients case the joint days ahead of time to find out if there's surveillance video? I would be interested to find out if she really filed an insurance claim when her car was, quote, burglarized. What about it, Dube? And she goes back to the same place and gets attacked a second time. Same parking lot, same car, same everything.

[Philip Dubay (Trial Lawyer)]

If I were defending her, I would put those store employees through the Vegematic. I would just really left, right and center, just cross examine them like they have never been crossed before. And I would want to know just how many employees are saying that about my quote unquote client. So, for example, this was your search and rescue debut, wasn't it? I bet you you checked the lighting. Before you spoke, you shut off all the fluorescence and make sure you had bright light and number two, pancake to rub on your nose and your forehead.

[Nancy Grace]

What are you even talking about? What are you talking about?

[Philip Dubay (Trial Lawyer)]

They're exaggerating.

[Nancy Grace]

Oh, okay. To Steve Fisher. Does he look like a camera crew to you? He looks like a regular guy to me. He goes in and talks to them about what happened, and they volunteer. Not just one of them. Under. You can take Fisher down. Okay, put Dubay back up. Dube. To believe your theory, all of the employees that opened up to see Fisher would all have to be in on it. That all had to be part of a conspiracy to lie about Mrs. Harrow. They all have to be in on it to get Ms. Harrow that they've never met before this. They don't know her. There's no grudge. There's no extra grind. But yet they're all willing to lie to a guy that just walks through the front door and asks what happened? Is that your story? They're all getting together to lie on Rebecca Harrow?

[Philip Dubay (Trial Lawyer)]

Well, Philip Duvet, in his personal capacity, would absolutely buy it. But if I were defending her, I would do whatever I could to make it look like they all put their heads together to take the lady down.

[Nancy Grace]

Wait a minute. That's your vegematic that you're bragging about? But I put the witnesses through a vetic.

[Philip Dubay (Trial Lawyer)]

Yeah.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, number one, nobody uses a Vegematic anymore. Unless you. I shot by hand, of course. But everybody else uses a. What do you say? Cuisinart. All right, so that said, that's your vegematic. You're gonna accuse them of having their star turn with Steve Fisher, who is not a camera person.

[Philip Dubay (Trial Lawyer)]

If I were defending them, absolutely, I would do whatever I could to challenge their perceptions, their recollections, and their incentive to want to take the lady down. And you'd be amazed.

[Nancy Grace]

You need a Search One. Dubai.

[Philip Dubay (Trial Lawyer)]

You need a Search One.

[Nancy Grace]

You need a Search One to search all the employees home and find that pancake makeup you're talking about Just the vats and vats and pots of pancake makeup and heavy powder that they were going to apply for. The moment that Steve Fisher happens to walk through their door, they were ready for that. Okay, what about this debate?

[Reporter Dave Mack]

In the early stages of the investigation, detectives challenge Rebecca Harrow on inconsistencies in her story, and she stops cooperating. Both parents are asked to take a polygraph, but Jake Harrow refuses the polygraph without his lawyer present.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, so I guess you think that's normal behavior too. When your child goes missing and your wife is attacked in a parking lot, you won't take a poly because of what? What are you afraid of?

[Philip Dubay (Trial Lawyer)]

Of inconsistencies. Imperfect, unreliable science. And we've seen this before. Remember when the Madeline McKay baby was abducted in Portugal?

[Nancy Grace]

The parents would not dubay Madeline got

[Philip Dubay (Trial Lawyer)]

the name Matty McCann. Remember that? The parents would not submit to the polygraph not because it was consciousness of guilt. It was consciousness of scientific imperfection that was the problem. Could you imagine then being detained and held based on imperfect science?

[Nancy Grace]

No.

[Philip Dubay (Trial Lawyer)]

So what do you do? You clam up. You ask for a lawyer, particularly in a situation when you're being confronted with inconsistencies and you have turned a search and rescue into an adversarial proceeding. I would have clammed up as well and asked for counsel or just remained silent.

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[Nancy Grace]

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called mom Rebecca Hoddo in court, her hair covering her face. As the case moves forward, the mother, 41, is charged with murder and making a false report in the death of her seven month old little boy Emmanuel. His body has never been found and the facts are heartbreaking. In all the Photos of little Emanuel. I never once, never once saw him smiling. And now I know why.

[Nancy Grace]

Mark Klass, he's the gold standard. His daughter Polly was kidnapped, sex assaulted and murdered by Richard Allen. She was having a spend the night party in her mom's home when police came to search Mark Klass's place. He opened the door and said, here, take my fingerprints, search my place, search my car, search my office. Do whatever you want. Then you can move on to find out who took my daughter. Okay. He was willing to take a polygraph. I find it very odd that faced with your child disappearing and a violent attack on your wife in a parking lot, that you refuse a polygraph and lawyer up. I got a problem with that.

[Reporter Dave Mack]

I agree.

[Steve Fisher (Missing Persons Private Investigator)]

I mean, if a child goes missing, even if the public might be throwing accusations around, I mean, as a parent, if you have no guilt in it, I think it's the last thing going through your mind is, you know, the failing of a polygraph. I, I, you think they would be willing to submit to whatever would help investigators. And if the public's making those claims, then you have to tune that out. If, if you truly got nothing to do with it. But in this case, that's not what we saw. They told us they were cooperating. That's what the parents told the news. But it didn' seem like it because the time I was there, they were in the house the whole time. They weren't out searching. And it doesn't sound like they were truly cooperating with authorities in the Southern California news group.

[Reporter Dave Mack]

Rebecca Haro denies she went to the Big Five in Yucaipa days before she reported the kidnapping and told employees her car had been burglarized in the parking lot and asked if the business had surveillance cameras. The sheriff's department has yet to address the claims.

[Ali Neal (Co-founder, Revved Up Kids)]

Little Emanuel was first reported missing on August 14.

[Nancy Grace]

They have searched two counties and they have still not found this little boy. Baby Emanuel, just seven months old, reportedly goes missing out of a Big five sporting goods parking lot there with his mother.

[Dave Mack (Crime Stories investigative reporter)]

This is a seven month old baby that they are looking in the roughest terrain in the world for. And they bring out the baby's father and he doesn't even bother to offer any kind of assistance, any kind of help.

[Nancy Grace]

Tonight, sources stating they know why baby Emanuel will never be found. This as witnesses state the dad, Jake Harrow, asked for help in staging baby Emanuel's kidnap. But there's another baby taking center stage.

[Reporter Dave Mack]

Listen, the sister of Emanuel was so badly injured at just 10 weeks, she was Left unable to see, talk, or walk, the little girl is being raised by her adoptive mother, who renamed the child Promise faith. At just 10 weeks old, promise had an acute fractured rib, healing fractures of six ribs, a skull fracture, a brain hemorrhage, swelling of the neck, a healing fractured leg bone, and nutritional neglect. Haro and his former partner, Vanessa Avina were both charged with child cruelty in 2018, to which Haro pleading guilty.

[Nancy Grace]

Dr. Eric Eason. The injuries to baby Emanuel's sister are overwhelming. And according to reports, she has cerebral palsy because of repeat abuse. How can that happen? How do you get cerebral palsy from beatings?

[Reporter Dave Mack]

Well, it's trauma to the brain, and

[Nancy Grace]

it's a blunt trauma.

[Reporter Dave Mack]

So a solid object struck the head

[Narrator/Host]

or the head struck a solid object

[Reporter Dave Mack]

or some combination of the two. And so everything indicates with the rib fractures and all the other fractures on

[Nancy Grace]

the body in different stages of healing

[Reporter Dave Mack]

that they were inflicted by another individual. And that's how the cerebral palsy can occur in a child due to injury to the brain.

[Nancy Grace]

And what's so disturbing, Dave Mack, is that a judge allowed Jake Harrow, the father in this case that reportedly asked for help from store employees to set up his baby's kidnapping. He got to walk free. He walked free. Isn't that true? The judge said, hey, I'm going to do you a favor. Judge Dwight W. Moore suspended Harrow's prison sentence and granted straight probation. What happened, Dave Mack?

[Dave Mack (Crime Stories investigative reporter)]

He spent a couple of weeks picking up trash on the side of the road. Nancy. In a work release program.

[Nancy Grace]

Defense attorney Philip Dubay. The baby cannot walk. Talk hear. See, he got probation. I guess you think his lawyer did a good job.

[Philip Dubay (Trial Lawyer)]

Well, of course he did. I mean, you cannot claim that that attorney was ineffective. I think the real question, though, is why the prosecution wasn't pounding its fists on council table demanding that this judge impose prison or why they didn't file what we call an affidavit of prejudice against the jud judge and you get moved to a different court. It's my understanding somehow you're gonna not.

[Nancy Grace]

You're somehow trying to blame the prosecutor for this. Well, I've got a truth bomb for you.

[Narrator/Host]

Listen, Jay Caro pled straight up to the court, which sometimes reporters get this wrong, and you call it a plea bargain. Judges are not allowed to plea bargain. The defendants can plea bargain with the prosecutor, but when a defendant pleads up to the court, they plead to everything that they've been charged with, and they're essentially throwing themselves on the mercy of the court.

[Nancy Grace]

It's called a blind plea in most jurisdictions. What that means is the prosecutor would only agree to a plea bargain for serious jail time. The defense wouldn't take it. And so they go to the judge, blind, so to speak, and throw themselves on the mercy of the judge. The prosecutor disagreed. The prosecutor wanted hard jail time. It's the judge, Judge Dwight W. Moore. They went to the prosecutor. Yeah, you know what? Screw you and the horse you rode in on. I'm gonna give him straight probation. Even though he blinded the baby girl. He made her deaf, dumb and mute and she can't walk and she has cerebral palsy. But hey, he actually said from the bench, I'm gonna give you a break, I'm gonna do you a favor. The prosecutor was doing a back flip.

[Narrator/Host]

Listen, in this case, a judge here in Riverside county happened to have been a visiting judge from San Bernardino county, gave Mr. Haro the A suspended sentence. Which means that instead of sending him to prison, he chose to give him probation and suspend prison time sort of over his head. Meaning that if he, if he violated his probation, he would then go to prison. My prosecutor in the courtroom objected to that and said on the record, we, we object. We, we think it's a prison case, you should send him to prison. And the judge decided that Mr. Haro deserved an extra break and gave him probation and basically 180 days of work release. That decision was absolutely outrageous. Mr. Harle should have been in prison at the time that this crime happened. And it's. If that judge had done his job as he should have done, Emmanuel would be alive today.

[Nancy Grace]

That is Mike Hestron, the Riverside county district attorney saying we beg for jail time. We demanded jail time. And Judge Dwight W. Moore threw us out of court and gave this guy straight probation. And what did he do? He goes into a store asking them to help him give an alibi, help him create a story that his child, his other child was kidnapped. That is the woman, that is the person, Allie Neal, that you said, hey, there's no playbook for a parent who's lost a child. So maybe he was crying, maybe he was really upset. That's the guy. He had already beaten one child into oblivion.

[Ali Neal (Co-founder, Revved Up Kids)]

Okay, I want to backtrack because you were asking specific questions about his demeanor in the store and the clerks perception of his demeanor in the store. Do I think he did it? 100%. Yes, I absolutely think he did it. And I completely agree that he should already be in jail for the other child abuse. So yeah, this whole story just smacks of this wild made up lie. And I hope the wife is sitting down. I'm sitting down.

[Nancy Grace]

Are you sitting down? Simple sitting down. Well, you know, you might need to lay down for what you're about to hear.

[Narrator/Host]

Ali Neal, at the end of their sentence, he told Jake, I'm giving you a big break today. Don't mess it up. But, but I want to point something out to you. I want to read to you the injuries that the child's name is Carolina. She's still alive today, but she is permanently bedridden. She has permanent damage, cerebral palsy. There's that is a result of long term child abuse.

[Nancy Grace]

Crime stories with nancy grace. The preliminary hearing for Rebecca Hoddo is

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set for the end of May. In the last day she is brought

[Nancy Grace]

to court, she sat there like a lump.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

She initially said she was attacked in the store parking lot and her son was stolen. But deputies quickly determined that was a lie. What more do we know?

[Nancy Grace]

How can you look at the disappearance of baby Emanuel without factoring in what Jake Harrow did to this baby's sister who is left forever in basically a vegetative state because of him. He pled guilty. It's not a question. Dube will probably make it sound like, well, maybe it didn't happen. He pled guilty under oath in a court of law. He rolled the dice and he hit the jackpot because the judge gave him straight probation. And what does he do? According to reports, he tries to get store employees to help him stage a kidnap. The kidnap, another baby, Baby Emanuel. But before we move on, I want you to hear the Riverside County District attorney, Mike Hestrin, recount what happened to Baby Emanuel's sister.

[Narrator/Host]

I want to read to you the injuries that were presented to in court to this judge at the time of that previous prosecution. Acute fracture of the posterior left rib, fifth ribbon rib healing fractures, healing fractures of the posterior lateral 6th, 7th and 10th through 12th ribs. Healing fractures of the 6th and 9th through 12th ribs, partial bone fracture of the skull, brain hemorrhage, significant pre vertebral soft tissue swelling of the neck and a healing tibia fracture of the right leg.

[Nancy Grace]

When you hear the district attorney reading off the injuries to the baby girl who was, you know, just weeks old, you can numb yourself. But if you think about what he is saying, if you let your mind go to what he is saying, what was done to the baby is brutal. It's hateful, is downright evil. What was done to this baby girl. And now baby Emanuel is missing. Now, according to sources, Baby Emanuel will never be found.

[Reporter Dave Mack]

Harrow's next door neighbor is saying the body of Emanuel Haro will never be found after hearing police had Harrow out by the 60 Freeway. The neighbor says she can hear the coyotes at night like they are in the front yard and says she doesn't think the remains will be found. Quote 1 Something to be found. I'm pretty sure you could find a way. Sad to hear, but true. If you're a local here, you know that baby's gone.

[Nancy Grace]

Dave Mack, explain to me what the neighbors are saying.

[Dave Mack (Crime Stories investigative reporter)]

They're pointing out, Nancy, that while it seems the area that you're talking about with Riverside and San Bernardino counties, there are a lot of areas that are very rural, okay, A lot of underbrush and coyotes. The coyotes are wild and they can hear them at night. And as the neighbor pointed out, they're so loud. They're so they sound like they're right here in the front yard. And that's what she's pointing out. There are so many areas where if that's what your goal was to get rid of something that nobody would find, you could do it in this area around the house within two or three miles could be totally lost.

[Nancy Grace]

I want to go to Steve Fisher joining us, search and rescue specialist, owner of Search Investigations. Steve, if that's true, what the neighbor is saying, that Emmanuel's body will never be found, if the body had been disposed of out in one of these many, many open and desolate areas, could cadaver dogs find even a trick, a part of the baby, assuming coyotes had gotten to him first?

[Steve Fisher (Missing Persons Private Investigator)]

Yes. So and listen, this is a huge, vast open area and I do a lot of searches out in this area. And these are scavenger animals. It's not just coyotes, but there is a lot of mountain lion in that area and they're opportunistic animals and they will feed upon stuff like this, but they scatter the bones. They'll use them as salt licks sometimes. And I understand such a young child has softer bones than an adult. However will it does actually they'll spread those remains. It actually gives a wider area for then humans or canines to come in and search. And there still is going to be, you know, a material left where the canines can pull scent. So but it's not going to happen if they're not out searching. And that's, you know, where I have a problem lately is I don't see these searches happening. But yes, even if these predatory animals, we see it a lot in desert searches and it does happen. But they do leave, you know, remains behind.

[Nancy Grace]

There is, of course, a remote chance baby Harrow is still alive, that Emanuel was sold or given away. But again, when you don't know a horse, look at his track record. Dr. John de la Torre. We know that Jake Harrow has a history of beating infants. So it makes me believe that the neighbor could be right. Dr. De la Torre?

[Dr. John de la Torre (Forensic Psychologist)]

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I, I just, just listening to the list of injuries that, that, that baby Catalina suffered, I mean, I, I almost want to cry and that, and you're right, Nancy. You know, the, the, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. And we see someone who engage in sadistic, violent behavior against vulnerable children. And so more than likely, if something could have happened and the same thing would have happened to baby Emanuel. So are there other things that could have happened? Sure. But the most likely thing, the most probable thing, is that these two parents engaged in some nefarious act and baby Emanuel is now gone and we're struggling to try to find him.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, let's clarify. When you say gone, you mean dead.

[Dr. John de la Torre (Forensic Psychologist)]

I do mean dead, yes.

[Nancy Grace]

In the last days, Jake Harrow and wife Rebecca Harrow are in court.

[Reporter Dave Mack]

Jake Harrow has a public defender who entered a not guilty plea for him at a rape. Raymond and Rebecca Haro's court appointed private counsel Jeff Moore entered a plea of not guilty for her. Moore from the firm Blumenthal and Moore previously represented Louise and David Turpin, the parents serving a life sentence now for abusing their 13 children for years. In court, Jake Harrow is wearing a jail issued red jumpsuit indicating he is not in general population for his own protection. And Rebecca Harrow wearing blue jail uniform for the same reasons.

[Nancy Grace]

Oh, so they're getting protected from the other end inmates. I got a question, Dube. Why do you hire defense attorney that lost the Turpin case?

[Philip Dubay (Trial Lawyer)]

Great question. And I happen to know who defense counsel is. He is private, but he's court appointed. So he was not privately retained. He was appointed by the court at taxpayer expense. This young couple is impoverished. They don't have a pot or a window to spend on private counsel.

[Nancy Grace]

Are you trying to make me feel sorry for them because they can't afford a high price defense attorney like you? They got a high price defense attorney. His name is Jeff Moore and he's with Blumenthal and Moore. And he lost the case as Louise and David Turpin. They got life.

[Philip Dubay (Trial Lawyer)]

The firm has a contract with Riverside county to pick up all conflict cases where the public defenders declares a legal conflict of interest. So they are on an annual contract where they're basically paid a lump sum to represent everybody brought in on conflicts during the contractual period.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, they landed in a pot of honey yet again. Getting a veteran trial law lawyer. That's not all we hear, Dave Mack, that these two demons from hell that are presumed innocent until proven guilty are wearing special jumpsuits, which means they are not in gen pop general population.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Why?

[Dave Mack (Crime Stories investigative reporter)]

Well, it's for their own protection. Because of the charges, Nancy. At least that's what we're being led to believe. Because you know, we all have heard jailhouse stories of how people who hurt children are treated with the way they should be treated. It's. That's for their own protection, Dave Mack.

[Nancy Grace]

Those two Turpins are alive and well. And you and I gotta pay for three hots and a cot for those two. Again, demons straight. Straight from hell. They're from hell. All those children abiding, starved, beaten, kept in, literally in chains in closets. Now the question is, are these two wet cats in a barrel going to turn on each other? And I've got an indicator they will.

[Reporter Dave Mack]

Jake and Rebecca o' Haro were brought in through separate doors at opposite sides of the courtroom. They did not appear to look at each other and Jake Harrow kept his eyes on the judge. Rebecca Haro was kept out of Dr. Direct view by her private attorney appointed by the court, Jeff Moore from Blumenthal and Moore.

[Nancy Grace]

Don't you just love it, Dubai, when your client and the co defendant won't even look at each other in court? I've seen them sitting right beside each other in court and they look the other way. They won't even look at each other. I smell a state's witness and I think the state's witness is going to be Rebecca Harrow. I hope she doesn't get a sweetheart deal to testify against her husband. State. You don't need her. You don't need her to prove this case. What about it, Debay?

[Philip Dubay (Trial Lawyer)]

I think you're absolutely correct and I've said it from day one. I think at most Rebecca was an accessory after the fact. Meaning she was not complicit in the underlying homicide, but may have had a hand in covering it up so that her husband wasn't arrested. Still a crime. The legal good news for Rebecca is that that only carries three years at halftime and does not have a lifetime. So if in exchange she testifies against for three years, I can.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm just curious, are you actually on something? This woman is not getting three years and walking free that's not happening. The state doesn't even need her. You don't think she was there when Baby Emanuel was killed? She took part in the whole thing.

[Philip Dubay (Trial Lawyer)]

What proof do you have that she had. What proof is there that she had a hand in the murder? If there even was a murder? Seriously? It's my understanding the evidence.

[Nancy Grace]

Did you say if there even was a murder? Did you just say that?

[Philip Dubay (Trial Lawyer)]

Yes.

[Nancy Grace]

You're losing a lot of credibility right now.

[Philip Dubay (Trial Lawyer)]

Dubai, I could understand as to him, but what do you have on her other than she's got a black eye in a parking lot saying somebody said Ola kidnapped the kid and purportedly drove off? Right now you've got nothing saying that she had a hand in that murder, if there was a murder.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

To make matters worse, in a jailhouse interview after her arrest, Rebecca Hodo says her husband, quote, would never hurt an infant and declared her own innocence. She lies not just for herself, but for her killer husband. Remember, the husband had a conviction for child abuse involving another incident with an ex wife. That child suffered so badly with broken bones, a brain hemorrhage, and now cerebral palsy. But guess what? He got probation and work release in that case and then went on to murder Baby Emanuel. We wait as justice unfolds.

[Nancy Grace]

Nancy Grace, Crime story signing off. Goodbye. This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.