← Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
MOTEL "FULL OF BLOOD" AFTER MURDERS OF HOLLYWOOD LEGEND ROB REINER & WIFE MICHELLE
00:49:15
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- [00:00]
Nancy Grace
This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human. Now streaming on Paramount plus is the new limited series Little Disasters. Based on the book by the author of Anatomy of a Scandal and starring Diane Kruger and Jo Joyner, Little Disasters is a gripping story of unraveling secrets and fractured relationships that will leave you on the edge of your seat. Bella magazine declares, if you loved Big Little Lies, then this psychological drama is for you. Little Disaster Binge all the episodes on Paramount plus. Decluttering is everything. It clears your space, your mind, and.
- [00:41]
Jessica Finn
It can give you shopping power with Trashy.
- [00:43]
Nancy Grace
Just buy a trashy bag, fill it with clothes and shoes you no longer need, then ship it free and earn points instantly. Build your points by shopping exclusive Trashee offers and redeem for gift cards to brands you love or donate them to charity. It's time to make space for what's next. Start decluttering today@trashy.IO that's T R A S H I E I O hey.
- [01:07]
Rob Shooter
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- [01:28]
Nancy Grace
Of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes. If network's busy, taxes and fees extra.
- [01:35]
News Reporter
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- [02:09]
Nancy Grace
Crime stories with Nancy Grace A hotel full of blood discovered after the murders of a Hollywood legend. The iconic Rob Reiner and his beautiful wife, Michelle Singer Reiner, both stabbed dead. Multiple stab wounds, both their throats slit in their own home. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Bob Reiner, an accomplished Hollywood director, has it all a thriving career, a beautiful family and a picture perfect life. But behind the scenes, deep family struggles begin to arise as information is now leaking out. We hear the original 911 to a fire department. Listen closely.
- [03:01]
Dr. Bethany Marshall
Units here, M1DB. Now fire department requesting a backup. Three incident 2586 NRDA 25. Let's delay the hands.
- [03:10]
Rob Shooter
So at approximately 3:40 this afternoon, Los Angeles police officers along with the Los Angeles City Fire Department responded to the 200 block of Chadbourne Avenue here in the city of Brentwood. Upon arrival, they determined that there were two deceased individuals inside of the residence.
- [03:26]
Nancy Grace
Joining us tonight, Jessica Finn, senior investigative reporter, US sun, whose latest article deals with what led up that night to the murders of Rob Reiner and wife Michelle Singer Reiner. Tell me about how the fire department ended up being the first responder. Let's just start right there.
- [03:48]
Jessica Finn
Yeah, Nancy. So apparently Rob and Michelle Reiner had a planned massage appointment that afternoon during the afternoon on Sunday. And when they didn't answer the door, the masseuse kept trying to call and knock and ring the bell. And eventually she decided that she was going to leave. And so their daughter came across the street, she lives right across the road and decided to check on her parents. And that's when she discovered that her parents were no longer with us and she called 911. And what's interesting about that 911 call.
- [04:25]
Nancy Grace
Jessica, no longer with us. Okay, Jessica, I am a crime victim of violent crime. I've devoted my life to seeking the truth in our criminal justice system. I am a former felony prosecutor who specialized in in murders, serial rape, serial child molestation and arson of any type. So say it like it is. It's not that they are no longer with us. They were murdered. And I'm going to explain tonight, along with this panel of experts how police knew immediately when they entered that home. This was no suicide pact. This was no suicide murder. They knew that Rob Reiner, beloved and his wife, the inspiration for the end of When Harry Met Sally, were murdered. Okay, you know what, Jessica? I want to go to Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us tonight, renowned psychoanalyst from this jurisdiction, author of Deal Breaker. You can see her now on Peacock, and you can find her at Dr.bethany marshall.com, Dr. Bethany Marshall. I've been to many, many, well, countless murder scenes. But it sticks in my mind. My own dad at his funeral when I hugged him in the coffin and fixed his hair again. Sometimes I wish I had never done that because that's that memory. I can't Imagine what it does to a child. This is Romy. They're one of their children who lived across the street from them. Comes over, walking in, thinking, hey, mom and dad. Mom, dad. No answer, nothing. The TV's not on. The Christmas music's not playing. What? And then she finds their bodies. She will never get that out of her mind. And she must have not been able to accept it at first. Like, why are mom and dad in the floor? And only to discover they had multiple stab wounds. Multiple, which Joe Scott's going to probably tell us in a few moments that subdued them before their throats were slashed. I mean, Bethany, Rob Reiner was one of the kindest people I've ever met. He happened to befriend me for no reason. He didn't have to do that. He's an icon. When we were living out there during Dancing with the Stars and was just an amazing person, you know, one of those people that their warmth and their generosity just shines out. You can spot him a mile away. That's him. And someone asked, what's the secret to a happy marriage? And he said, marry somebody happy. So I'm guessing his wife, Michelle. Same temperament. But back to the daughter stumbling upon her parents, trying to make sense of it, finding them slaughtered in their own home. She will never get past that. Bethany.
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Dr. Bethany Marshall
Nancy, I have an unforgettable memory about you. Your book signing many years ago. Everybody was leaving and I heard this blood curdling scream and I thought, who just screamed? And it was you. And what had happened was your dad had failed, fainted. And you were so concerned that you screamed. You love your dad so much and you were so scared to see him like that. And I will never forget that, Nancy. And I think about this daughter who lived across the street from her parents. That's how close this family was. Her kids were with grandma and grandpa every single day. Coming across a scene like that, seeing your parents stabbed, and all of a sudden reality, the reality that something has happened to them matches some sense of, did somebody in my family contribute to this? You know, Nancy, trauma is not just what happens to us. It's witnessing something horrible happening to the people we love the most. That's more. That's more traumatic than an individual being raped, you know, accosted, assaulted. Something bad happening to them is looking at the people they love the most and seeing that something bad happened to that person. That person's dead, that person's in the hospital bed. That person has had some horrible accident or disfigurement and that's what this poor daughter had to go through, not only her parents, but grandma and grandpa to her kids, seeing that they had suffered in this violent, violent scene.
- [09:19]
Nancy Grace
You know, Bethany, you just brought up a really good point. And guys, we are getting right back to the facts, okay? What we know as of tonight, but Bethany, you just ignited reignited a memory. We used to live right across the street from my mother's mother, my mama Lucy that I named my daughter after. She helped raise us. And it was very, very loving. And I think that's a testament to, to Reiner and Singer, his wife, because their daughter chose of everywhere she could live. You know, they gave her whatever she wanted. They, you know, out of love. Not that she demanded it, but she chose to live directly across the street from them like we did across from my grandmother, my mama. That tells me how close the family was and how what?
- [10:09]
Dr. Bethany Marshall
Well, that is important, Nancy, because what you're saying, the family was close, but also whoever did this did this to a husband and wife who were actually quite loving and close to their family and provided everything for their children and their grandchildren. And we have to hold that in our minds as we talk about this double homicide, that these were very, very, very loving parents and grandparents.
- [10:36]
Nancy Grace
LAPD responded to a residence, the residence of Rob and Michelle Reiner, located in West Los Angeles division.
- [10:45]
Joe Scott Morgan
At that location, they found two deceased.
- [10:48]
News Reporter
Adults, a male and a female, through the night.
- [10:51]
Nancy Grace
Working with the coroner's office, they were.
- [10:53]
News Reporter
Able to identify them definitively as Rob and Michelle Reiner. Unable to get in touch with her parents all day Sunday, Romy Reiner decides.
- [11:02]
Nancy Grace
To make a house visit.
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News Reporter
Around 3:30, Rummy lets herself into their Brentwood home and discovers a horrifying scene. Rob and Michelle Reiner stabbed and their throats slit.
- [11:13]
Nancy Grace
You are Hearing Chief Jim McDonnell, LAPD. Now earlier, we're hearing from the deputy chief, Alan Hamilton. This is from our friends at Fox 11. You know, I noticed at the get go, at the very get go. Straight out to Rob Shooter joining us, PR guru who has worked with every Hollywood celebrity I can think of, author of a brand new book and it's amazing. It's on Amazon, titled It Started with a Whisper. Rob, did you notice at the beginning, at the very beginning, Hamilton, Deputy Chief Hamilton did not reveal who the deceased was. Were, I mean anyone especially in our business could figure out that it's Reiner and his wife because they said an adult male, adult female, age 78 and 68 found in the home of Hollywood legend Rob Reiner. I'm like, who else could it be? So we knew, but the LA law enforcement would not state it. Did you notice that? I wonder why.
- [12:24]
Rob Shooter
I did. I did. I noticed this. I find my experience, and I've been doing this a long time, Nancy, is the police departments are very, very cautious. Very, very careful. Their PR departments, their spokespeople, never, ever want to put out information that they have to change. So they always err on the side of being cautious. Why would they not? Now, as reporters, as journalists, we hit the phones, we talk to our sources, we use our common sense here. And so I think this was once again an example of the police department being cautious. Probably a good idea. However, I do think there probably should be some changes here as technology has progressed. You can see things now on social media. We were watching videos from outside the house, the house being live streamed, Nancy. And so the news has really picked up its pace. It's fast. It's changing every 10, 15 minutes. The police department have yet to catch up with that reality.
- [13:19]
Nancy Grace
You know, Rob, can I see the video of Reiner playing with his dog again? Specifically that side shot of him the first time I met him. Very, very kind. I was dashing out Studio City of Dancing with the Stars on one of the very first nights, actually trying to find my mom and dad, who had come and moved down the hall from us to help me take care of the twins. And I ran by a guy standing on the very top step going down this big, big, big stair, you know, stair entrance. And it was him. And he went, Nancy. And I turned around and I looked at him, and at first I thought it was his father, because they look very similar. Of course, when you see him in all of his professional photos, he's all different than he looks in that. In the video we're showing you. But that's how he looked that night. When I first saw the photo, I mean, the video of him with the dog, that's how he looked that night. And. Except he had on this really gorgeous suit and he was, you know, in his finery. And I looked him, I'm like, that's not his dad. That's Meathead. I said, that's Rob Reiner. And I was immediately starstruck because of his brilliance. His brilliance. You know, when he first appeared on all in the Family as Meathead, one of his iconic roles, I don't think people realized just how brilliant he was unless you watched it and realized his comedic timing was just impeccable. It's amazing. And instead of being a bit character in that, he Became a star right along with Jean Stapleton and Carol o' Connor and Sally Struthers. I mean, he was a star on screen and off, but that is how he looked when I first met him, except in his beautiful, gorgeous suit. Not all decked out like you see celebrities, even men with fake hair and fake makeup and fake everything. He was extreme, just genuine.
- [15:29]
Rob Shooter
He was. He was. That's. That's the word, Nancy. Genuine. I was lucky enough to have met him several times to. To talk to him. I'm always cautious. I bumped into him the first time I met him in a restaurant in Hollywood, and he came over to my table and he said, I like your work. And I was shocked because I work as a gossip columnist and entertainment reporter. And I was, like, curious. And he was like, no. You find a way to tell a story in a naughty but nice way. That's what he said. It's cheeky, it's funny, it's everything that he was. He didn't shy away from the truth. He liked the truth. He wasn't afraid of it.
- [16:00]
Nancy Grace
So he knew the name of your naughty but nice. That's interesting, because I was always stunned, Rob, that he actually knew. Of all the people, how could he know my name? I was just stunned that. And he must have had an incredible memory to know all of that. Okay, I veered us off course. Let's get out of the weeds and back on track that night. Immediately straight out to Joseph Scott Morgan joining us for my purpose. I like Joe Scott Morgan because he's a death investigator, right? He has investigated over 1,000 death scenes. Now, as you know, there are a few ways to die. You've got natural causes, you've got suicide, you've got accident, you have unexplained, and you have homicide. Okay? Those are modes of death. And there's a multitude of causes of death. Strangulation, poisoning, stabbing, gunshot wound, heart attack, blah, blah, blah, blah. Not only that, he is professor forensics, Jacksonville State University, which houses an incredible criminal procedure program, author of Blood Beneath My Feet, and star of hit new podcast Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott. Immediately they knew it was homicide One. No forced entry. The daughter let herself in with her own key. Obviously no sex attack. To the naked eye, they knew immediately this was not a suicide pact. I'm guessing that the knife wasn't lying there, because, for instance, you go on a scene and the person has shot themselves. Where's the gun? If the gun's not there, they didn't shoot themselves. So there are many ways to determine immediately this is not a suicide homicide, it's not a suicide pact. Explain how they knew and what you would be looking for the moment you walked into that scene. It's a Hollywood celebrity, it's an icon. Don't screw up the crime scene.
- [18:11]
Joe Scott Morgan
No, you can't, because that's where the tale is going to be told, Nancy. And one of the things that would give this away immediately is that I can guarantee you that this is a bloodbath. There will be copious amounts of blood that are spread not only on their persons, on the victims, but also on the floor surrounding their bodies or on whatever surface they might have been lying on at that particular time. There would probably be obvious signs of struggle. Because you know, Nancy, out of all of these modalities of death, when you begin to think about sharp force injuries, these are the most personal of all of them. You know, you think about somebody being shot, okay, yeah, it can be personal, but it's not up close and personal like a sharp edged weapon is. So there would have been a struggle, there would have been pain centers firing, there would have been action and reaction to every time they were either stabbed or cut in this particular case. And one more bit of info here. Whoever perpetrated this, this horrendous butchery, they are going to have a significant amount of blood on their person as well. You know, many times at these scenes where we have cases like this, you will see an attempt on the part of the alleged perpetrator to try to clean themselves up. You can go into like a bathroom and these sorts of things and you'll see that there's efforts being put forth, you know, over a sink, you know, where they're trying to clean themselves up. Maybe an attempt. I've had cases where people have actually taken their clothes off and washed them at a scene, taking showers, all those sorts of things. Because, you know, one of the things that will draw attention to you, even for somebody that is unfamiliar with having committed a homicide, one of the things that will draw attention to you quicker than anything else is that blood is all over you. People are going to ask questions, you're going to draw their sight at that particular time. So this is certainly what I would frame as an evidence rich environment. The trick here though is securing the scene and making sure that everything, and I mean everything in this case is detailed. I'm not saying that Mr. Reiner and his wife are special. However, you know, and I know that the glare of the lights on this case are going to be so intense that you better make sure that you have everything covered moving forward.
- [20:37]
Nancy Grace
And I want to clarify when I said this is a Hollywood celebrities place, don't screw up, what I was really getting at. And you echoed it to Moses Castillo. Joining me out of this jurisdiction. Oc private investigator for the Durdulian Group, Former supervisor, detective from the LAPD. He's@moses castilloinvestigations.com. what I meant by that was everybody is going to be a looky loo. Everybody on the police force, the fire department, they're like Rob Reiner, let's look inside. I mean it's natural curiosity. I'm not stating that they're taking pictures of the crime scene and sending them to Rob shooter. I'm saying that out of a natural curiosity. You're like wow, this place is beautiful or whatever. Translation, that messes up your crime scene. It deteriorates, it degenerates, it contaminates your crime scene. The more people that tromp around in there, I hope they closed it down pronto. Moses, what would be your SOP? Standard operating procedure on that? As a supervising LE with the LAPD.
- [21:55]
Rob Shooter
Nancy, as you heard that 911 call actually was the radio dispatch for the dispatcher is announcing to the officers the fire department requesting a backup. That tells me that the fire department.
- [22:07]
Nancy Grace
Personnel that got there, they noticed that.
- [22:09]
Rob Shooter
Oh my gosh, we have two people that were murdered. We don't know if the suspect is.
- [22:13]
Nancy Grace
Still here or around here.
- [22:14]
Rob Shooter
This is a huge property. It's a beautiful home, a mansion. So they call for a backup not knowing if the suspect is still here. So that's how the call initially came out. So again, I agree with Joe Scott. This is a bloody crime scene. The officers knew right from the very beginning that they had a homicide on their hands. And that initiated the response to LAPD's elite team of Robbery Homicide division detectives.
- [22:39]
Dr. Bethany Marshall
Now fire department requesting a backup. Code 3 incident 2586. NRDA 25 was delayed.
- [22:46]
News Reporter
So at approximately 3:40 this afternoon, Los.
- [22:49]
Rob Shooter
Angeles police officers, along with the Los Angeles City Fire Department responded to the 200 block of Chadbourne Avenue here in the city of Brentwood.
- [22:58]
News Reporter
Upon arrival, they determined that there were two deceased individuals inside of the residence. Every story begins somewhere for your child. It could begin with a Guardian bike. Built right here in the usa, Engineered for safety and designed for confidence. Kids of all ages are learning to ride in just one day. No tears, no frustration. It's why Guardian is America's favorite kids bike. And the New York Times and Wirecutter's top pick three years in a row this holiday season, give the gift that's safer, smarter and built to last. Visit guardianbikes.com to save up to 40% on all bikes, plus a free accessory bundle worth over $100.
- [23:40]
Nancy Grace
It's the coziest time of year on Britbox. That means making piping hot tea on a chilly day, wrapping yourself in something soft on the sofa and getting lost in a brilliant series. This holiday season, Britbox has you sorted with the best of British tv. Curl up with eyebrow raising mysteries on the cliffy English coast in the new season of Beyond Paradise. I love Beyond Paradise. Escape to sweeping countryside manors where headline making scandal is just another Tuesday in Outrageous. Or patrol the charged streets and criminal underbellies of Belfast in the new season of the BAFTA winning police drama Blue Lights. Britbox gives you the kind of entertainment that makes being home on a blustery day a true luxury. So however you cozy, it's all a bit warmer with Britbox. See holidays differently when you stream the best of British TV with BritBox, our family's favorite. Watch with a free trial today@britbox.com youm can't solve every case for your kids, but with greenlight, they'll have the instincts and the money skills to stay out of trouble. With a Greenlight debit card and money app, parents can monitor spending and teach financial responsibility. It's an easy way to guide kids as they grow from earning allowance and tracking chores to teaching how to save and even invest. Start your risk free Greenlight trial today@greenlight.com iheart that's greenlight.com iheart 10 athletes will face the toughest job interview in fitness that will push past physical and mental breaking points.
- [25:25]
Jessica Finn
You are the fittest of the fit.
- [25:27]
Nancy Grace
Only one of you will leave here with an IFIT contact contract for $250,000. This is where mindset comes in.
- [25:35]
Jessica Finn
Someone will be eliminated.
- [25:38]
Dr. Bethany Marshall
Pressure is coming down.
- [25:40]
Nancy Grace
Trainer Games on Prime Video January 8th Watch the trailer on trainer games.com Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Romy.
- [25:51]
Rob Shooter
Their youngest child arrives at the house.
- [25:53]
Nancy Grace
To find her parents brutally murdered. As the investigation unfold, unfolds, all signs point to someone close to the family. The LAPD seizes control of the scene. Listen.
- [26:05]
News Reporter
The current death investigation that is being.
- [26:07]
Rob Shooter
Conducted by the Los Angeles Police Department is going to be handled by the.
- [26:11]
News Reporter
Homicide Special Section of Robbery Homicide Division.
- [26:14]
Rob Shooter
Of the Los Angeles Police Department.
- [26:15]
Nancy Grace
That from our friends at Fox 11 you are hearing Deputy Chief Alan Hamilton. Straight out to Philip Debay, veteran trial lawyer, defense Attorney joining us also from this jurisdiction, Dubai, they're always referred to as the elite LAPD Homicide unit. What makes them elite? I'm not arguing about it. I think they are elite. But explain why.
- [26:41]
Rob Shooter
Well, first of all, they have exceptional training. Typically, they've been on the forest for five to 10 years because it requires a great amount of experience to investigate the crimes. They're also very familiar with the inner workings of the Superior Court. They know who the DA's are, and they know exactly who to call, who to approach to get charges filed or to find out where the evidence may fall short. And if they have to go back out and beat the bushes, so be it. They'll get the evidence. But when you put a greenhorn in there to investigate some of these high profile media cases, they might not be as adept at putting the case together as the more seasoned homicide detectives are.
- [27:21]
Nancy Grace
You know what? You're so right about that, Philip Dube, because you can learn a lot, say, in college or grad school, but you have to learn from the street, from the school of hard knocks before you. Let's just say your first souffle probably won't be your best, right? So you need the experience. You need to know deep down muscle memory what to do on a scene like this. In other words, shut the door, don't let anybody else in. Things like that that, as you say, greenhorn may not know automatically. And they know they're the bomb. As a matter of fact, in Atlanta, within apd, the Homicide Unit, they all wear fedoras. And I remember going, why do they. Why do those guys have on fedoras? And they're like, because they're homicidal. I'm like, well, why the hat? Because they're homicide. I'm like, well, okay, whatever. It is an elite group. Okay? So it goes from the death investigation being handled by the Robbery Homicide Division of lapd. They get the first lead. Listen. Romy immediately implicates a dangerous family member, warning authorities they should be considered a suspect. Though the Robbery Homicide Unit is assigned to investigate the case, detectives agree the killer is someone known to the couple, as there is no sign of forced entry to their home. Michelle and Rob have three other children, Jack, Nick and Tracy. Rob Reiner's adopted daughter from his first marriage to Penny Marshall.
- [28:58]
Rob Shooter
There are going to be many family members interviewed. I'm not going to confirm whether someone's being interviewed at this time or not.
- [29:05]
News Reporter
We're going to try and speak to.
- [29:06]
Rob Shooter
Every family member that we can to get to the facts of this investigation from Fox 11.
- [29:11]
Nancy Grace
Okay. Where does this fit into what I told you at the get go? A bloody hotel scene. Okay. We're talking about Joe Scott Morgan, that whoever committed this double homicide. And I need to circle back with you on the multiple stab wounds as they relate to the slashing of both of these throats by the victim's throats. Okay. Because that is significant. Probatively, it proves something to me. That said, I mean, think it through. Okay, You've got. First of all, a woman did not do this. A woman. This is not statistically, overwhelmingly, statistically, not a female crime. Plus, Reiner's a big guy. He could have overpowered a woman. Even though he's 78, he still could have done that. So it's not a woman. So we can throw out Romy, who called police to start with. If it had been her, she would not be calling 911. The other daughter lived a distance away. The adopted daughter that Reiner adopted, Penny Marshall, his first wife. Her daughter is not a woman. So you've got the one son in the business living out of state, I think New Mexico, and then you have the other son. So that's where they start.
- [30:31]
Joe Scott Morgan
Yeah. What we're hearing right now, Nancy, is that there are injuries to the neck and they've been categorized as slash wounds. Remember, slashes are different than stabs. So this is what this means to me is that you have to have a blade that is being drug literally across the surface of the neck, generally on the front side of the neck or the anterior. And Nancy, here's one more thing. In order to facilitate this, it's not like you see in the movies where somebody just walks up and slashes somebody's throat. This is an event that has to take place where they're being stabbed, subdued, perhaps. They go to the ground, they're fighting for their life. And the one person that is perpetrating this has to get the upper hand. They apply pressure. This requires pressure in order to force a knife through the flesh on the neck and they drag it across the neck. So what they're saying is not only was this done once, this is done twice to two separate subjects here. Both Mr. Reiner and his wife were both injured this way. And this goes to the dynamic of the environment. We still don't have an. An indication as to the proximity of both of the victims to one another. But, you know, this has been running through my mind ever since the story dropped. Was. Was the perpetrator in the midst of attacking, attacking Mr. Reiner, perhaps because he, of the two is the. Is the largest. You have to take him out. And then the wife comes in, sees this happening, she begins to get stabbed, and then her throat is cut. I don't know. We'll find out more, but this is going to be an absolute bloody mess when you think about the injuries, and particularly with the neck, because you know what we get when we get neck wounds like this, Nancy? We get that arterial spray that we're always talking about. If there's still life in the body, that blood is literally going to pulse out, not just onto the surrounding surfaces, not just onto the victim, but also onto the perpetrator as well.
- [32:30]
Nancy Grace
You say pulse out. It's kind of an arterial bleed, is like a water sprinkler with every heartbeat. Also, I think we're going to get the scenario by where the bodies are found. If they're lying there together, side by side, that sounds like posing. If you can see one, obviously one person, you suggested the wife, Michelle Singer Reiner, running toward Rob to help him, or vice versa. I think you'll be able to tell the scenario, you'll be able to deduce it from where the bodies were laying when the authorities got there. But what we are learning tonight is what? What?
- [33:16]
Joe Scott Morgan
Yeah, one more thing. If the individual that perpetrated this, Nancy, is wearing shoes, okay, you will be able to see, and I've seen this countless numbers of times. It seems like this, they will leave behind literally bloody shoe prints that can be tied back to that specific individual. And we're not. And you have to think of it this way, when you look at these shoe prints, did you know that at scenes, when we take those images, when we take those lifts, we can actually deduce wear patterns on the shoes? And that's a specific tie back to a perpetrator. People always think about DNA, they think about fingerprints and all this. But blood is an interesting, interesting medium in this sense because it attaches itself. So every time you have these points of contact all over the place, that's something that you really have to dig into. If this person fled the scene, not only are you going to have blood at the scene, you're going to have blood either outside of the residence, where they left on foot, maybe in a vehicle, and then actually where they wound up where they came to rest as well.
- [34:20]
Nancy Grace
At a holiday party, Nick's mental health issues escalate into a heated argument with his parents, forcing Rob and Michelle to leave abruptly. Hours later, they are found brutally stabbed to death in their home. Is there A motive for the double murder of Rob Reiner and wife Michelle Singer. Reiner. Straight back out to investigative reporter, senior investigator, investigative reporter, US son Jessica Finn. What happened at the party the night before?
- [34:52]
Jessica Finn
Nancy My sources are telling me that there was a pretty big argument between Rob, Michelle and their son Nick at Conan o' Brien's holiday party. This is a pretty swanky party. It's an annual party. A lot of big celebrities were in attendance. We were told that Nick basically was acting erratically at the party, kind of going up to people saying strange things. And during the party, he got into an argument with his parents. And it's unclear exactly what the argument was about. There is some speculation. We won't go there right now, but there was definitely a bit of an altercation during the party that people noticed, and this. This argument got pretty loud. So the, the whole disagreement started kind of much earlier in the night from what we're hearing.
- [35:36]
Nancy Grace
Okay, wait a minute. You said there's speculation about what the argument was about. What's the speculation?
- [35:42]
Jessica Finn
Well, so Nick has had a very long and troubled history with drugs. He's been in and out of rehab 17 times. And so there's been a lot of speculation that he was possibly on some sort of drugs that night. He didn't look well. He didn't look like he was in his normal state of consciousness. And people have speculated that his parents were once again trying to get him back into a rehab program. And he's been really resistant through the years to get the help that he's so desperately cleared. And the speculation was that this argument probably focused on him trying to his parents trying to get him help again.
- [36:19]
Nancy Grace
You know, Jessica Finn, it's not speculation that the son, Nick Reiner, is an abuser. He's a drug addict. He himself states that he has been in and out of rehab. I think he says 17, 18 times. Listen, how many times have you been in and out of rehab?
- [36:38]
Rob Shooter
I'll be honest, it's been like 17 or 18 times.
- [36:41]
Nancy Grace
I started when I was like, almost.
- [36:44]
News Reporter
About to turn 15.
- [36:46]
Rob Shooter
He was there until like, 19.
- [36:48]
Joe Scott Morgan
Yeah, like 15 to 19.
- [36:49]
Nancy Grace
And yeah, it's like been three or four years. That is from the pledge and the turn. So you're right. Jessica Finn to Dr. Bethany Marshall, joining us, psychoanalyst out of this jurisdiction. Dr. Bethany, when you're with an addict, it's like someone with. First of all, drug addiction or use of drugs is not a defense under the law. Voluntary use of drugs or alcohol, not a defense under the law. Let's Just start with that. But to you, Dr. Bethany, it's like someone with dementia. You think, why did they say that? Why are they acting so combative? Why are they so angry? There is no reason. Drug addicts, who knows why they were arguing? Jessica Finn from the US sun was stating their speculation about why they were arguing. It doesn't matter. It's like, why does a domestic abuser beat his wife? There doesn't have to be a why because she made tacos, not enchiladas. I don't know why. There is no why. Why ask why? See what I'm saying? When you have an addiction, nothing makes sense.
- [38:03]
Dr. Bethany Marshall
I agree with you. The why is not important because the substance abuser may not even remember what they're arguing about. What I would say is let's talk about what substance the sun was on. If, if the sun was on meth, methamphetamine, then you have an overkill phenomena. And Jo Scott Morgan could probably talk a little bit more about this. But, but certain drugs cause certain kinds of aggressive behaviors like let's say marijuana. If somebody's on pot, they're not going to stab somebody. They're just going to be very passive and lying on the beach, enjoying the sunshine and ordering a pina colada. Right. But if they're on meth, there could be a great amount of aggression and hatred towards the victims. So I would wonder, like what was the son using when he went to the Christmas party? Now in terms of the why, also, sometimes with addicts, parents really struggle with should we continue to support this person financially or if we cut off financial support, are they more likely to get sober? And it's kind of a tricky question because sometimes when support is cut off, the user becomes even more angry and aggressive. And that might have been the case here too.
- [39:23]
Nancy Grace
Sydney Stoner joining us. Crime Stories Investigative reporter Jessica Finn was describing a savage that the son Nick Reiner was making at Conan o' Brien's yearly Christmas party. Sidney apparently he was going up to all of these stars and going, hey, are you famous? And basically dogging him. That's what I understand happened at the party. And it must have been very embarrassing for Rob and Michelle Reiner. They let him tag along. Then he makes a legal term ass out of himself.
- [39:54]
Dr. Bethany Marshall
Right. And this wasn't a family trip. If it was just Nick with his parents, that's already an embarrassing situation, possibly that your 32 year old son is tagging along like he's your 12 year old child. So to be acting out and to be Speaking to people that he doesn't necessarily know in a flippant way definitely could have started a disagreement. Hey son, you need to behave yourself. And that definitely could have set this person on drugs off, especially if it was meth.
- [40:27]
Nancy Grace
We have our Robbery Homicide division handling the investigation. They work throughout the night on this.
- [40:33]
News Reporter
Case and were able to take into.
- [40:36]
Nancy Grace
Custody Nick re Nick Reiner, a suspect in this case. He was subsequently booked for murder and is being held formal million dollar bail.
- [40:47]
News Reporter
After an interrogation, Nick Reiner, 32, is arrested on suspicion of murdering his parents.
- [40:53]
Nancy Grace
78 year old Rob and 68 year old Michelle.
- [40:57]
News Reporter
As of Monday morning, Reiner has held.
- [40:58]
Nancy Grace
On $4 million bail.
- [41:00]
News Reporter
But by the afternoon that bail amount had been revoked.
- [41:03]
Nancy Grace
An LAPD statement indicates they will present.
- [41:05]
News Reporter
Their case to the district attorney Tuesday.
- [41:07]
Nancy Grace
And prosecutors have until the end of.
- [41:09]
News Reporter
The day Wednesday to file formal charges.
- [41:12]
Nancy Grace
You're Hearing Chief Jim McDonald, LAPD. From our friends at Fox 11 to Jessica Finn joining us, senior investigative reporter, us son Jessica. Tell me about the arrest, how it went down and is it true that an extremely bloody hotel room has been connected to the son, spoiled brat Nick Reiner?
- [41:40]
Jessica Finn
Yeah. So after the incident, the brutal murder of his parents took place at their home in Brentwood, Nick ran and checked into a hotel about 20 miles away, give or take. The hotel ended up being covered in blood. The hotel room was totally covered in blood. There was blood in the bathtub. There was blood all over the bathroom. There was blood on the bed sheet. So this was basically where he seems to have gone to take to take a shower, get the bloody clothes off and then he left the hotel room. And it's unclear why he left the hotel room, what his plans were. But he was eventually apprehended several hours later. About, about, yeah, several hours later at right near the University of Southern California's campus. He was taken into custody after a SWAT team basically arrived and threw him on the ground. And yeah, it was, it's been, it was quite the scene. From the time the police found the bodies, discovered the bodies to his hotel room stay to him leaving the hotel room for some unknown reason heading towards a camp, towards the campus.
- [42:53]
News Reporter
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- [43:25]
Nancy Grace
It's the coziest time of year on Britbox. That means curling up with a gripping murder mystery, basking in a spring sumptuous period drama, or discovering a new hidden gem. See the holidays differently when you stream the best of British TV with BritBox. Watch Britbox original series, including the new season of the award winning Belfast police drama Blue Lights. However you cozy this holiday, it's a bit warmer with Britbox. Watch with a free trial@britbox.com 10 athletes will face the toughest job interview in fitness that will push past physical and mental breaking points.
- [44:05]
Jessica Finn
You are the fittest of the fit.
- [44:07]
Nancy Grace
Only one of you will leave here with an IFIT contract for $250,000. This is where mindset comes in.
- [44:16]
Jessica Finn
Someone will be eliminated.
- [44:18]
Dr. Bethany Marshall
Pressure is coming down.
- [44:20]
Nancy Grace
Trainer games on Prime Video January 8th.
- [44:22]
Rob Shooter
Watch the trailer on trainergames.com Season 2.
- [44:25]
Nancy Grace
Of Unrivaled Basketball is here and the talent is unreal. Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more are to redefine the game. Unrivaled basketball season two, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy Tips off January 5th on TNT, TruTV and HBO. Max Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, hold on just a moment. Philip Dubay joining me. He has defended many, many murders as I have prosecuted many, many murders. Isn't it true, Dubay, that if this were to go to trial, that the judge will instruct the jury? There's no question about it. The black and white letter of the law. It's the last thing they hear before they go for deliberations. And that will include a jury charge that the jury can consider acts actions before, during and after the incident. Yes or no?
- [45:25]
Rob Shooter
Absolutely. It's proven. Tent. Yeah, we call it. We call it the 1101 B evidence. And basically it's evidence to prove something other than propensity, something other than character, such as intent to commit the crime.
- [45:39]
Nancy Grace
Such as intent to clean off your bloody clothes and leave them behind because you know you've done something wrong. You know, just like when you have your PBJ and you spill jelly down the front of your T shirt. Dubai. You don't then rush out to dinner at a fancy LA restaurant, do you? You change clothes because you know that looks bad, right? This guy changed his clothes, took a shower. As you just heard Jessica Finn describe from the US sun, the shower, the tub Was full of blood. Why? Because he washed off his parents blood before he left that hotel. Why? Because he knew it was probative. He knew it proved he had done something horrible. Translation, consciousness of guilt. So don't tune up with me. Second verse, same as the first. That he had a mental disability because he was voluntarily high on drugs. Don't. He knew what he did was wrong.
- [46:47]
Rob Shooter
Well, I have a feeling he has what I call the trifecta of co occurring disorders. Meaning? First of all, he's got the addiction problem and I do actually predict he was high as a kite on something and likely methamphetamine. And number two, he was in the throes of psychosis, probably from the untreated schizophrenia. And number three, I think there was a personality disorder thrown in the mix. So when he got to the hotel, Dubai.
- [47:14]
Nancy Grace
Yes, Dubey, I'm sorry, I'm trying to turn over neolith and not interrupt you as much as normal, but this is a yes no. You know what, I'm not even going to ask you. Dr. Bethany Marshall, did I just hear Dubay state the words bipolar and schizophrenia? Did I hear those two words come out of his mouth?
- [47:33]
Dr. Bethany Marshall
Let me use a different term. His parents are withdrawing financial support. It enrages him. That's more likely with a long term addict. It doesn't matter if they have psychiatric disorders, personality disorders, whatever else is going on. There comes a point in every parent's life when they have a drug addicted child where they say we're not going to give you money anymore, we're not going to support this. The only way to help you get sober is if you have to support your own life. And that is when the trouble occurs because.
- [48:09]
Nancy Grace
Wait a minute, Dr. Bethany, does this mean that Nick Reiner couldn't live in daddy's pool house anymore and tear it up, destroy it, the artwork, the tv, the clothes, the sofa, the bed, all ruined on one of his drug fits over and over. And Reiner would see suck it up, clean the whole place up, get new furniture and let his son move back in. Only to do it again. They created a movie together called Being Charlie that chronicled Nick Reiner spoiled brat, life of drug addiction and mistreating his parents who put him back in rehab and back in rehab and gave him a place to live and paid all his bills and watch this. I'm not going to listen to you tell me what a drug addict I am.
- [49:03]
Rob Shooter
God damn it.
- [49:03]
Nancy Grace
Careful, I'm one of your constituents now. You wouldn't want to lose the governor's race by one vote. You can either head back to treatment or live on the streets.
- [49:09]
Rob Shooter
It's your choice.
- [49:10]
Nancy Grace
I've got so many clips from Being Charlie that you were just watching and it chronicles. Sadly, sadly, it's very upsetting the parent's life with an addicted adult son. And the son, actually, to you, Jessica Finn, you were talking about speculation about what the argument was about. The son actually blames the parents for saying, look, you're going to go to rehab. We're going to send you again to one of the best rehabs in the country for like the 18th time. Just put out the money. And the son doesn't want to go. He goes, I'll live on the street. So Reiner finally says, yeah, okay, fine, live on the street if you don't want to get well.
- [49:55]
Jessica Finn
Yeah, they were doing some tough parenting. I mean, like, yeah, there comes a point with addiction. I mean, from what I understand that, you know, you eventually got to cut the kid off, right? And I'm sure they've cut the kid off clearly throughout the years. They. He said he was homeless in Texas, he was homeless in New Jersey. He was homeless in Maine. So he's been on the outs with his parents financially. And, you know, I'm sure this had to do with another, yet another brutal cutoff for him and his addiction from their, their financial support.
- [50:26]
Nancy Grace
You know, tough decision, right? Rob Shooter, you know, Nick Reiner now being held without bond tonight. Tough choice. Do I want to live on the street or in my dad's multimillionaire pool house by the pool where I can go into his kitchen and eat whatever he's got in the fridge whenever I feel, feel like it because I'm a spoiled brat. Tell me about Nick Reiner. Frankly, I don't care because I don't want to get close to a defendant and start to, you know, identify with him. But go ahead, tell me.
- [51:00]
Joe Scott Morgan
I know.
- [51:01]
Rob Shooter
I think the context of it's really important, Nancy. This is a kid that had every advantage that everybody would want in life. He had rich, famous, kind, loving parents. A lot of people might have rich, famous parents, but not loving and kind. He hit the jackpot. He had everything, Nancy, and he threw it all away. I met with him for coffee in LA about four or five years ago. He was working on a project. He's a struggling screenwriter. He's not really very talented at this. Some people are very boo hoo. That poor Nick. I didn't feel that way. He was rude to the staff in the store. He was impatient he was aggressive. He was arrogant.
- [51:41]
Nancy Grace
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You just can't drop a bomb like that on me. Me not cross examine you. What do you mean? He was rude. I worked in a sandwich shop.
- [51:48]
Rob Shooter
He did not very well.
- [51:49]
Nancy Grace
Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. What happened?
- [51:52]
Rob Shooter
Rolled his eyes at the staff, was rude at them. They got his order wrong. And he was not very gracious about that. He was a really toxic individual. And, Nancy, everybody in Hollywood knew it. When he turned up at Conan o' Brien's party, can you imagine the reaction? Ah, he's here. Nick's here. They can't say anything.
- [52:14]
Nancy Grace
They brought the son.
- [52:17]
Rob Shooter
And they don't say anything, though, because his parents are so, so loved. And this is. This is so interesting to me. The only thing about Nick that I found interesting, the only reason I met with him was because of who his dad was. And what he didn't realize is he was trying to run away from the one thing that made him interesting. He did not want his Parents association, but he wanted their money. He wanted their connections. He wanted their power. He wanted it both ways, and you can't do that.
- [52:50]
Nancy Grace
So today I keep hearing everyone talk about his addiction and all he had been through. I don't get it. Reiner and Michelle did everything they could, and it's like him literally biting the hand that fed him over and over and over. And Reiner kept supporting him. Here he is taking him to Conan o' Brien's party. And don't you know, o' Brien probably didn't even say anything to his wife. They probably went, oh. When they see these three coming up the sidewalk because it's Rob Reiner, they're like, okay, let him in.
- [53:32]
Rob Shooter
That's exactly what happened, Nancy. Everybody in Hollywood knew this troubled young man. If this had been anybody else, he would have had zero access. He would have been iced out of Hollywood really, really quickly. It was out of respect to his parents that anybody paid him any attention. He had every opportunity, Nancy. He had access to resources to go to the best schools, to meet people, to make connections with people that we would dream to be in a room with.
- [54:00]
Nancy Grace
So much more evidence to sift through. Was it Reiner's blood at that hotel? Was it Singer's blood at that hotel? What can the hotel employees tell us about the check in? How was he apprehended? What, if anything, did he say at that time? Is he making statements from behind bars? Has his sister spoken to him? What is the evidence at the scene? You know, it's Brentwood. You know that that place is blanketed with surveillance cameras? What do we know? Or is this guy going to continue to trade on Hollywood fame and walk free? If you know or think you know anything about this case before, during, after the incident, we want justice for Reiner and singer. Dial 8002-2284-7780-0222-8477 and tonight we remember an American hero. Commissioner Michael Ryan, Phoenicia Fire Department, New York Killed in the line of duty after 25 years of risking his life, leaving behind a grieving family. American hero Commissioner Michael Ryan, Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye friend.
- [55:39]
Joe Scott Morgan
Foreign.
- [55:47]
News Reporter
Begins somewhere for your child. It could begin with a Guardian bike, built right here in the usa, engineered for safety and designed for confidence. Kids of all ages are learning to ride in just one day. No tears, no frustration. It's why Guardian is America's favorite kids bike and the New York Times and Wirecutter top pick three years in a row. This holiday season, give the gift that's safer, smarter and built to last. Visit guardianbikes.com to save up to 40% on all bikes plus a free accessory bundle worth over $100.
- [56:19]
Nancy Grace
It's the coziest time of year on Britbox. That means curling up with a gripping murder mystery, basking in a sumptuous period drama or discovering a new hidden gem. See the holidays differently when you stream the best of British TV with BritBox. Watch Britbox original series, including the new season of the award winning Belfast police drama Blue Lights. However you cozy this holiday, it's a bit warmer with Britbox. Watch with a free trial@britbox.com 10 athletes will face the toughest job interview in fitness that will push past physical and mental breaking points.
- [56:59]
Jessica Finn
You are the fittest of the fit.
- [57:01]
Nancy Grace
Only one of you will leave here with an IFIT contract worth $250,000. This is where mindset comes in.
- [57:09]
Jessica Finn
Someone will be eliminated.
- [57:12]
Dr. Bethany Marshall
Pressure is coming down.
- [57:14]
Nancy Grace
Trainer Games on Prime Video January 8th.
- [57:16]
Rob Shooter
Watch the trailer on trainergames.com Season 2.
- [57:19]
Nancy Grace
Of Unrivaled Basketball is here and the talent is unreal. The best women's players on the planet are running at the back with even bigger moments and bigger stakes. Don't miss as Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more take the court and redefine the game. This isn't your regular season. This is unrivaled, where the pace is faster, the energy is higher and every athlete shines. Unrivaled basketball season two, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5th on TNT, TruTV and HBO. Max, this is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.