"NAKED NANNY'S" DAMNING FACETIME, STABS TOT'S GRANDPA DEAD WITH SCREWDRIVER

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode Title: "NAKED NANNY'S" DAMNING FACETIME, STABS TOT'S GRANDPA DEAD WITH SCREWDRIVER
Date: November 6, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Nancy Grace investigates the shocking case of Samantha Ray Booth—dubbed the "Naked Nanny"—who was entrusted by the Ong family to care for their little girl, only to brutally murder the child’s grandfather, David Ong, with a screwdriver. Grace and her panel unravel the timeline, challenge widespread rumors, dissect psychological factors, and scrutinize the evidence, all while pushing past sensationalism to consider the nature of guilt, justice, and mental health in violent crime.

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Main Theme

• Exploring the unsettling reality behind a lethal betrayal of trust:
  How a loyal nanny with no criminal or mental illness history becomes the suspect in a brutal homicide, and the struggle to find rational explanations for irrational violence.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Timeline of Events and Immediate Questions

• [01:35–04:30]
  Nancy Grace introduces the heartbreaking scenario: 83-year-old David Ong, checking on his granddaughter and her nanny, is found stabbed to death with a screwdriver by the very woman the family trusted.
• [04:30–05:19]
  The initial welfare check: Mom Katie Ong can’t reach the nanny (Samantha), calls her father (David Ong) for a welfare check; when dad goes silent, she sends her brother-in-law next.
• [05:50–07:34]
  Grace explains why she doesn't fault the mother for relying on a person she knew for years—highlighting the challenge of anticipating such betrayal when someone seems trustworthy and familiar.

"When you know somebody, you don't think to check them out, see if they've gone crazy on social media because you know them."
— Nancy Grace [06:54]

2. Backgrounds of Those Involved

• [07:34–08:31]
  Alan Langel notes that Katie Ong is a psychologist specializing in ADHD assessments—raising questions about the interactions and possible missed warning signs.
• [08:31–09:40]
  The panel clarifies: ADHD is not a mental illness and is unrelated to violent hallucinations or psychotic breaks.

“ADHD does not make you have either auditory or visual hallucinations. ADHD is not any sort of a mental illness at all.”
— Nancy Grace [08:31]

3. Searching for a Motive: Drugs? Mental Illness?

• [09:40–15:43]
  Discussion on Samantha’s background: No criminal record, no known drug use, no documented mental illness according to her family.
• Panelists speculate about possible undiagnosed drug use because some drugs (marijuana and mushrooms) were found after her arrest, but Nancy pushes back on forming excuses without evidence.

"Why do we keep talking about it?... We're pretending she's on drugs. We're pretending she had a drug history. We're pretending she had a mental illness history... Have you all lost your minds?"
— Nancy Grace [15:16 & 17:53]

4. Society's Perception of Female Offenders

• [15:43–17:42]
  Nancy and Tom Green debate the public tendency to rationalize female aggressors’ crimes, especially those who appear "normal" or attractive.
• Nancy references the Casey Anthony case as another example.

“Whenever you have a woman, particularly a woman that some people would find attractive... They have a really hard time imagining that she's responsible for a murder. So we do all sorts of contortions to find a way to explain it away.”
— Nancy Grace [16:01]

5. Examining Samantha Ray Booth’s Social Media and Mental State

• [19:46–20:31][27:52–33:09]
  Clips from Samantha's TikTok reveal she struggled with anxiety, self-loathing, and an eating disorder, described herself as a "lightworker," and referenced doing “inner child” work.
• Nancy and psychologist Dr. Janie Lacey clarify: these traits and traumas do not constitute legal insanity or severe mental defect.

“She's laying it all out there. If she's talking about that she drank too much, you don't think she'd blurt out on social media that she also did weed and mushrooms?”
— Nancy Grace [23:02]

• [20:56–22:01] (Lightning Round)
  Nancy rapidly confirms with Dr. Lacey that: Self-hatred, eating disorders, drinking, anxiety, insecurity, and survival mode are not mental defects.

6. The Night of Violence—Sequence of Events

• [12:56–15:43][33:09–34:01]

  • Brother-in-law Douglas Smith arrives for a "welfare check on the welfare check". Finds Samantha in the basement, covered in blood, with the grandfather dead.
  • Samantha attempts to attack Smith and her young charge; Smith flees with the child, Samantha pursues, neighbors aid escape.
  • Samantha strips naked, discards the weapon, and flees before being apprehended by police.

• [40:09–40:32]
  Police report: Booth drops screwdriver and clothes, flees naked, is arrested, and immediately brags to officers:

“I effed him up and yes, I did it. It was too easy.”
— Narrator/Reporter [40:27]

7. Brutality of the Attack

• [34:01–37:54]
  Dr. Thomas Coyne, forensic pathologist, explains that screwdriver wounds are smaller but more forceful than knife stabs, especially if targeting the skull or temple region. Death by screwdriver suggests extreme violence and deliberate, repeated force.

“…if you're using enough force, [a screwdriver] can go right into the brain and so you can incapacitate a person pretty fast if you hit the right spot.”
— Dr. Thomas Coyne [37:05]

8. Legal Arguments—Mental Health, Competency, and Sanity

• [41:12–43:44]
  Legal panelists discuss the distinction between being “insane” at the time of the crime and competent to stand trial. Alan Langel speculates first-degree murder “would be hard” to prove under Michigan law, but Nancy rejects mitigation given the evidence.

• The law’s stance: Voluntary drug use, even if proven, is not a defense to homicide.

"Voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is not a defense. Period."
— Nancy Grace [26:42]

• Nancy pushes back on all attempts to excuse or explain away the violence:

"No matter which way you guys want to turn, you're going to have to accept that this woman... stabbed an unarmed senior just coming to check on the grandbaby. Dead. Dead."
— Nancy Grace [26:42]

9. Courtroom and Jail Drama

• [44:12–45:54]
  • Samantha Booth strips naked in her cell at the time of arraignment, perceived as attention-seeking and potentially manipulative behavior to appear “insane”.

“We have Samantha Ray Booth throw herself in the floor of her cell and strip when it's time for arraignment. Not before, not after, but just when it's time for arraignment. Talk about attention seeking.”
— Nancy Grace [45:26]

10. Next Steps & Legal Proceedings

• [46:53–47:13]
  Samantha Ray Booth is held without bail; next court appearance is scheduled. Her boyfriend’s testimony about a pre-attack Facetime may be key: she was expecting grandpa’s visit, illustrating premeditation and sanity.

"That's damning. It's damning because she was in her right mind and she was not surprised by the grandpa when he came in the door. That is a damning FaceTime and I expect he will be called as a state's witness."
— Nancy Grace [47:45]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Nancy Grace on society's struggle to see women as aggressors:
  “Whenever you have a woman, particularly a woman that some people would find attractive... They have a really hard time imagining that she's responsible for a murder.”
  [16:01]

• On excuses made for violent women:
  "We're pretending she's on drugs... We're pretending she had a mental illness history... Have you all lost your minds?"
  [15:16]

• On voluntary drug use and criminal defense:
  "Voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is not a defense. Period."
  [26:42]

• Samantha Booth’s chilling statement post-arrest:
  “I effed him up and yes, I did it. It was too easy.”
  [40:27]

• Dr. Coyne on the weapon:
  "A screwdriver... requires much more force. So yeah, I would imagine each blow would be more forceful... you can incapacitate a person pretty fast if you hit the right spot.”
  [37:05]

• On mental health and social media self-diagnosis:
  “She may be zany, but she is not insane.”
  [29:08]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:35] — Case introduction; outline of crime
• [04:30] — Timeline of welfare checks, family response
• [07:34] — Panel introduces backgrounds, psychological context
• [15:43] — Society’s bias toward female suspects
• [20:56] — Samantha Booth’s TikToks dissected for insight into her psyche
• [33:09] — Frantic basement scene described; survival and rescue
• [34:01] — Forensic details of the screwdriver attack
• [40:09] — Nanny flees naked, confesses to the killing
• [44:12] — Jail drama and legal analysis of competency/sanity
• [47:13] — Next steps in the legal case

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Final Takeaways

• No convincing evidence of serious mental illness or incapacitating drug use in Samantha Booth. Her social media confessions point to personal struggles but not legal insanity.
• The crime’s brutality, paired with her lack of remorse (as shown by her post-arrest bragging), removes the possibility of successful insanity or defect defenses in the eyes of the panel—most notably Nancy Grace.
• The conversation exposes societal discomfort confronting violence enacted by women, especially those who “seem” normal or attractive.
• Pretrial proceedings continue; the prosecution is likely to rely on evidence of intent and after-the-fact statements to establish premeditation.

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For more information or to provide leads, listeners are encouraged to contact the Royal Oak Police Department at 248-246-3000.

Transcript

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace the so called naked Nanny's damning FaceTime just before she stabbed the little tot's grandpa dead with a screwdriver. What? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. David Ong, the beloved patriarch of a thriving family was living the dream with his wife and many grandchildren. But this picture perfect family was about to face a threat from someone they trusted. There is so much misinformation out there right now regarding the so called naked nannies attack on an 83 year old grandpa. First of all, who is Samantha Ray Booth? Let's take a look at her social.

[Samantha Ray Booth (Nanny)]

I'm having one of those days where I literally want to tell everybody and everything to the I was today years old when I realized how much has happened to me that I did not deserve. It's like I'm ready to throw down for my inner child Right now. Like all of this she went through and she didn't deserve. When do I get to be a Look at me.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm gonna me right up.

[Samantha Ray Booth (Nanny)]

I fear for everybody in this neighborhood.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, that is from Path Illuminated on TikTok. What is empath illuminated? You're gonna find out. But that was so revealing. Okay, leaving me with the question. Does nobody look on social before they hire someone? That's a theoretical. That's a rhetorical question. Let me get back to the screwdriver attack on an 83 year old grandpa. But control room just amused me just for a moment. I've got to see Samantha Ray Booth again. Let's watch this.

[Samantha Ray Booth (Nanny)]

I'm having one of those days where I literally want to tell everybody and everything to the up. I was today years old when I realized how much has happened to me that I did not deserve. It's like I'm ready to throw down for my inner child right now. Like all of this she went through and she didn't deserve. When do I get to be a Look at me.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm gonna me right up.

[Samantha Ray Booth (Nanny)]

I fear for everybody in this neighborhood.

[Nancy Grace]

I hear a lot of whispering there on the end. I'm almost said. I don't even want to know what she's saying, but I do because it may be probative. In other words, prove something. That's from Path Illuminated on TikTok. With me, an all star panel to make sense of what we are learning. A 35 year old woman who has been working periodically for a family, very loving family for two years, suddenly attacks the grandpa and stabs him dead with a screwdriver. Now what do we know happened that day?

[Narrator/Reporter]

Listen, psychotherapist Katie Ong calls on her regular nanny, Samantha Ray Booth when she's out of town. Booth has been caring for Ong's 3 year old for 2 years. Katie becomes concerned when she can't get Booth on the phone just before 8pm and calls her dad, David Ong, to make sure everything's okay.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, now first I'm going to go to Dave Mack. Joining me, crime Stories investigative reporter. Some people may think that that's out of the ordinary, that you've got a nanny with your children and just because she doesn't pick up the phone, you then call someone to do a welfare ch. That would be the grandpa. In this case the grandpa, 83, lived nearby sea. I don't find that odd at all. When I can't get a hold of the twins or I couldn't get a hold of the Nanny? You darn right I checked on them. I don't find that odd at all. Dave Mac, exactly what happened.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Katie on calls her father David and says go check on Samantha and make sure everything's okay at the house. And the police say that that's what he did. He went to the house to check on Samantha. And the three year old David Ong arrives at his daughter's $500,000 home in Royal Oaks to check on his granddaughter. But once he arrives, he too goes silent. When Katie can't get her father back on the phone, she calls brother in law Douglas Smith and asks if he will go to the house.

[Nancy Grace]

So now she's doing a welfare check on the welfare check on the nanny. You know, I'm very curious. Straight out to special guests joining us, the editor of Deadline Detroit, former Washington Post reporter Alan Alan Langel. Thank you for being with us. You know, this mom is no slump. She has known this nanny and the nanny, Samantha Raybooth, had been nannying for her for two years periodically. I've done that a million times when I've had, here's a great example. When I was working at hlm, I had several. I had a nanny to watch the nanny, watch the children, two nannies with the twins. Because of all the cases I had covered and investigated, I didn't trust a nanny. So I had two nannies for just the four or five hours I would be gone, plus a nanny cam. And they knew that I was watching them constantly. That said fast forward Allen all these years later. I mean, the twins didn't need a nanny or a babysitter once they started play school because I could take them and pick them up. But that said years later, when my mom, who's going to turn 94, moved in with us, I was worried about her when I would be at work. So I called those nannies, the very same ones. Now they're granny nannies. Okay, so when you know somebody, you don't think to check them out, see if they've gone crazy on social media because you know them. So I don't like people attacking the mom in this scenario, but tell me their history as we know it.

[Alan Langel]

ALAN well, you know, I think particularly, I mean, supposedly they knew each other for two years. She was doing work. I thought what was particularly interesting is that Katie Young, the mother, is a psychologist who on her website says she specializes in adhd, adhd to Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder assessments. And basically she works with patients and assesses them. And if they have adhd, then she refers them to either psychiatrists or works with that psychiatrist. So it happens to be that Samantha Ray Booth is supposedly one of her issues is she's adhd. So I find it interesting. And so it makes me wonder, and I don't know the answer to it, but it makes me wonder if she was aware of the situation and she knew how to deal with her or what. But I think it's an interesting, at minimum, coincidence.

[Nancy Grace]

To Dr. Janie Lacey joining us, licensed psychotherapist, CEO, Life Counseling Solutions, and author of how to Heal From a Toxic Relationship. She is the host of the Resilient professional podcast on YouTube. Dr. Janey, thank you for being with us. According to Samantha Raybooth's brother, she had no history of mental illness or drug use. None. So let me ask you about adhd. ADHD does not make you have either auditory or visual hallucinations. ADHD is not any sort of a mental illness at all. It's a learning issue.

[Dr. Janie Lacey]

You're absolutely right, Nancy. ADHD is a common diagnosis that many people have when it comes to mostly focus and hyperactivity. So relating ADHD to potentially what happened, I would say that there's no correlation. It's not relatable at all. There's probably other possible contributing factors that probably contributed to this.

[Nancy Grace]

Dr. Janie Lacy, I find it really interesting you mentioned psychotic break to John Day. Joining us, a veteran criminal defense attorney of John Day Law. Day, I'm sure that you're dancing up and down the hallway now. Psychotic break. First of all, I don't think a jury is going to buy psychotic break that leading up to the moment she stabs Grandpa dead and then brags about it to police. By the way, she knew darn well what she had just done. She said that was so easy. I can't believe how easy that was. I effing did him. Okay. A psychotic break, to my understanding, means you're fine up until a certain moment when you kill somebody, then right after that, you're fine again.

[Dave Mack]

Nancy, she's 35 years old, right? Never, apparently never had any contact with the police. No police record, no history of criminal behavior. She's worked with this family for a couple of years. Mom's a psychotherapist. You would assume that mom had some insight into behavior and behavioral issues. They trusted her with the infant for at least since she was born, apparently.

[Dr. Janie Lacey]

So.

[Dave Mack]

I mean, what else happened? I mean, you've got police saying that there were some mushrooms maybe when she was arrested in marijuana. I've never seen a case where Mushrooms in and of themselves led to some type of a violent murder. So something, there's an anomaly here and we don't know what it is. And if you're trying to defend this person who's charged with a horrific homicide, something is not right based on the fact that her 35 year history, she's clean. So if we talk about a psychotic break, there's something leading up to that. Was there other potential drug use we don't know about? Is something else going to come up? But also I want to look at what's the behavior now and what's the behavior while she's sitting in jail? And is there something here that somebody just obviously missed a sign, including mom, who's a professional therapist.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, we're putting a lot of the burden on the mom. I want to remind everyone. Dave Mack, Crime Stories Investigative reporter She babysat periodically. She was not the full time babysitter for the baby when mom was gone, but the mom had known her for two years. There is no indication at all that she was using drugs at the time. She has no history of drugs and her brother says she had no history of drugs or mental illness. She just stabbed the grandpa. Okay. Now the mom who is reportedly out of town for work, has her father come over to check on the baby. Then she can't get the father on the phone. It sounds like one of those horrible horror movies where you pick up the phone, there's somebody creepy and they're in your home. So she sends the dad on over, he disappears. So now she can't talk to the baby, she can't talk to the babysitter, she can't talk to her father. So then she sends the brother in law over. Listen.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Smith arrives at the home at 9:25pm Front door wide open. Smith hears noises coming from the basement and calls out to the nanny. Booth does not respond. Smith goes down to the basement and is shocked to find Booth covered in blood and David Ong lying on the floor with severe head injuries. 83 year old doing everything he can to protect his granddaughter.

[Nancy Grace]

Alan Langle explained to me what happened. The the brother in law comes over and then what happens?

[Alan Langel]

The brother in law comes over, he goes in the house, he hears some noise. He calls out the name of the nanny and he doesn't hear anything. He goes downstairs and he sees the grandfather on the ground there in the basement, stabbed multiple times. He grabs his niece, I think it's either two or three year old niece and he tries to get out of there. She comes at him and tries to attack him. He fends her off and he tries to get out of the house and she's coming after them. They go outside and she's still, they're trying to run away and she's still trying to attack them. Finally some neighbors let them into the house. So they call 91 1. She drops the screwdriver and then she takes off all her clothes and starts running. It's crazy. And I want to address one thing. When we talk about drug history, we don't know if drugs played a role or if they're just separate from that, a psychotic episode or whatever. But when people say drug history, we don't know. I mean she was marijuana. Nobody has a history. A lot of people who don't know the person may not know their personal habits, how many drinks they have, what type of drugs they have. I mean, obviously she had some drugs in her purse. Whether she. We assume that she used those drugs at some point or another, but we don't know on that particular day.

[Nancy Grace]

Alan, I'm asking you and Dave Mack for the facts. Did you just say we don't know? Do you have even a scintilla of evidence, a shred that this 35 year old woman had a drug problem? Any, anything to base that on at all?

[Alan Langel]

No, you know, no.

[Nancy Grace]

I mean, why do we keep talking about it?

[Alan Langel]

Well, only because they found the drug. I mean you're trying, you're trying to figure out this very irrational behavior. A person turns on the grandfather, strips her clothes off running down the street. I mean, obviously this is not normal behavior. So you're trying to figure out what it is, possibly whether it has nothing to do with drugs, whether it was a psychotic episode or whatever.

[Nancy Grace]

But we don't know what I think, Alan, we're looking for answers. I think that you, like many other people, are struggling with an issue I have whenever I tried a female and I'll tell you what that is. To Tom Green, former Chief Deputy, Washoe County Sheriff's Office Homicide Detective, Cold Case Squad. It goes on and on and on. Owner, Nevada Investigative Services Tom, here's the deal. Whenever you have a woman, particularly a woman that some people would find attractive. Not me, she looks like Beelzebub, the devil's hench person to me. But a woman that some people find attractive, they have a really hard time imagining that she's responsible for a murder. So we do all sorts of contortions to find a way to explain it away. And of course I'm going to need a shrink on this Dr. Janney. But have you seen that? I mean, let me just throw out. Here's a good one. Top mom in comes tot mom, Casey Anthony. And to court and acts demure and sweet and pitiful and scared and diminutive. Actually scrunching down in her seat to look smaller. And the jury looked at her and thought, no way. Way. That's just one example. Have you ever encountered that time where people just. They'll say, oh, she must have had a drug problem. She didn't. She must have. Fill in the blank. She didn't. Why do we do all these contortions when the killer, the defendant is a woman?

[Tom Green]

Well, I think it's a just natural reaction where people want answers. Why?

[Nancy Grace]

Like the why. And we don't always know the why.

[Tom Green]

You know, I worked a case one time with a woman, was beautiful. But she brutally murdered her husband.

[Nancy Grace]

And people could not wrap their head around.

[Tom Green]

Why would she do that? She looks so nice.

[Nancy Grace]

She looks so sweet and innocent.

[Tom Green]

But you know, we heard her own voice on. On the video that you played. She has some underlying issue of some sort. I'm not a psychiatrist.

[Nancy Grace]

No, you're not. You can just stop right there. The fact that she may have an under. You know what? Is everybody on this panel trying to think of a way to absolve her of stabbing an innocent, unarmed grandpa dead? Because I am not having it. We're pretending she's on drugs. We're pretending she had a drug history. We're pretending she had a mental. A mental illness history. Somebody said maybe she had adhd. We. No, none of that. Have you all lost your minds? When this mother brought her in, she was behaving perfectly coherently, but somehow everyone's doing somersaults and back bends to come up with an excuse. She has an issue. Well, guess what, Tom Green, we all have an issue. I'm a rotten fear of. Listen three pets, a crippled guinea pig and a 94 year old grandma. I got a lot of issues and I deal with murder every day. That does not absolve me from stabbing an unarmed man with a screwdriver.

[Tom Green]

Well, I listen to the lieutenant.

[Nancy Grace]

This is my rear end.

[Tom Green]

Provide his. I listen to the lieutenant provide his.

[Nancy Grace]

Assessment of the crime scene and the response.

[Tom Green]

He's the one that brought up drug use. He's the one that brought up potential psychosis.

[Samantha Ray Booth (Nanny)]

When I tell you I'm going places, the real ones are coming with me. I will come back for you know who the you are. The ones who sat there, abandoned me, watched me struggle didn't support me. You don't have a seat at my table.

[Nancy Grace]

In a quiet Michigan town, Katie Ong hires a nanny to care for her young daughter. Trusting her completely.

[Dave Mack]

Little does she know the nanny might.

[Nancy Grace]

Be harboring sinister master intentions. Guys, I want you to see more of this woman. Her name is Samantha Ray booth. She's a 35 year old female. This is what she posted online. Watch.

[Samantha Ray Booth (Nanny)]

Used to be so insecure and I had no confidence in who I was. Was in constant survival mode, struggling to keep my anxiety at bay. I was like a walking panic attack. I drank almost every day. I hated who I was. I had an eating disorder. Our relationships were tumultuous, especially the one with myself. I finally feel at peace and I feel so confident in who I am. Do not give up hope.

[Nancy Grace]

Of course I'm going to play that about a hundred times in front of a jury. If there ever is one. That's from path illuminated on TikTok to Janie Lacey. That's Dr. Janie Lacey, renowned psychotherapist and CEO. Dr. Janey. Have you ever heard of a lightning round? Have you ever? It's on game shows. You ever heard of that?

[Dr. Janie Lacey]

Yes I have Nancy.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, so you know the rule is a very quick answer. As in yes. No. Okay, here we go. Lightning round. Dr. Janie Lacey. Number one. Is hating yourself a mental disorder?

[Tom Green]

No.

[Nancy Grace]

Is an eating disorder a mental defect?

[Dr. Janie Lacey]

It's diagnosable, but no.

[Nancy Grace]

So then you just violated the lightning round rules. So no and no. Is drinking a mental defect? Okay.

[Dr. Janie Lacey]

No.

[Nancy Grace]

Is anxiety a mental defect?

[Dr. Janie Lacey]

No.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay. Is insecurity a mental defect?

[Dr. Janie Lacey]

No.

[Nancy Grace]

Is being in quote survival mode a mental defect?

[Dr. Janie Lacey]

No.

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, John Day joining me. Did you just hear Samantha Ray Booth online describing all of her issues? Somebody who said that it was either Langel or Tom Green or probably Dave Mack said she's got issues. Yeah, she's got issues. They're not mental defects. None of those issues. And she was very forthright with all of her issues. Eating disorder, anxiety, no confidence in myself. Boo hoo. No confidence in myself. A walking panic attack, self hating, self loathing, tumultuous relationships. Okay, none of those are mental defects. None of them. You're going to be hard pressed to use any type of a mental defect defense in this case because she's laying it all out there. If she's talking about that she drank too much, you don't think she'd blurt out on social media that she also did weed and mushrooms? Of course she would have. You know, when you don't know a horse, John Day, look at her track record. She's blurting everything there is to say about herself on social media. She doesn't mention a thing about weed or mushrooms, does she?

[Dave Mack]

So, Nancy, respectfully, I think you're missing the point. Everything that all these great people on this panel have said means that I want each one of them on my jury if I'm defending her. Because what everybody's doing is using their personal experience. They're using their observations here. They're trying to figure out an unfathomable situation. And that's what I want my jurors to be doing. They're trying to use their own life experiences to come up with some reason because it's hard to wrap your mind around what happened and why it happened. And if you don't have an easily graspable, understandable explanation for that, you're going back to your own life experience. You're going back to what you know about people. And what everybody on this panel is doing is coming up with things that might explain this away. And if I'm defending this woman, that's what I want my jurors to be doing. I don't necessarily care if there is a puzzle piece that fits perfectly in an explanation. I just want all of them thinking what everybody on this panel has just been doing, coming up with reasons, coming up with things that might fit into a rational explanation.

[Nancy Grace]

Before you finish your closing argument, let me stop you. Isn't it true that you said the jury will try to figure out what might have happened? Isn't the standard in criminal cases, beyond a reasonable doubt, not a hypothesis about what might have happened. Little green men from Mars may have beamed down and stabbed the grandpa dead. That may have happened, but it's not a reasonable hypothesis. So without information that she absolutely was on drugs, we don't have that. And following up, even if we did have that, assuming arguendo that we do find out she was on drugs. John Day, isn't it true that voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is not a defense?

[Narrator/Reporter]

Absolutely true.

[Dave Mack]

The voluntary use of drugs, yeah. But what you're doing is exactly what I want the jurors again to be doing. Because you are trying to rationalize an irrational situation. And the beyond a reasonable doubt standard.

[Nancy Grace]

That'S the official you and Alan Langle and Dave Mack are trying to rationalize an irrational situation because to me, it's not very rational. Grandpa came home to check on the baby and he was stabbed dead with a screwdriver. And he's unarmed. If she had gotten into magic mushrooms or some weed, that's on her. The law is very clear. Voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is not a defense. Period. Now, in some states and jurisdictions, you have unless and until that person is comatose. But if you're comatose, you can't move and stab somebody with a screwdriver. So that's irrelevant here. So no matter which way you guys want to turn, you're going to have to accept that this woman who you may think looks like your daughter or your sister or your mom, that she stabbed an unarmed senior just coming to check on the grandbaby. Dead. Dead. You know what? Let's take another look at this woman.

[Samantha Ray Booth (Nanny)]

Being a lightworker feels like speaking an entirely different language that most people around you cannot understand. You feel alone, you feel isolated. You feel like, how do I have this understanding of this language that I was not taught? Society didn't teach me this language. But it came from the inside. It came from your heart. And you have this knowing there is another path that we can walk down, another way of operating and navigating the world and how we treat ourselves and treat nature and treat community.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Okay.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, there's just so much to drink in from that. That's from path illuminated on TikTok. Okay. Dr. Janie Lacey. You're the psychotherapist. I'm just a trial lawyer, but I am coming at this from the second side of the 83 year old grandfather and his family. Because I know every day, every day I miss my father, Mac, who was my soulmate. I miss him every day. And I imagine I know that I am projecting that the victim's family feels the same way about him. He goes in to check on the baby and he gets stabbed dead multiple times with a screwdriver. And I can't help it. I'm putting my dad in his shoes. And I will be D A M N E D if I'm going to let everybody argue. Oh, she got into magic mushrooms, poor thing. Oh, hell no. That is not going to work for me. Now here she's saying she is a light worker and she speaks an entirely different language that most people, I guess that's me, cannot understand. You feel alone, isolated. Those are not mental defects. How do I understand this language I was not taught? She may be zany, but she is not insane. Because she gets in this car, you can see her in her car. She sets up a video cam on herself. She loves to post online. She's coherent, she's well kept, she's got on makeup, she's done her hair. She's talking about, I guess, the cult that she's starting. This woman is not insane, Dr. Janie.

[Dr. Janie Lacey]

I agree with you, Nancy. She had extreme violent behavior. She took this poor innocent man's life who was protecting his daughter. So when we look at the behavioral presentations of what is the documented digital record of her life, she's very conscious in a sense that she's using a lot of language that shows that she was actually doing her inner work. She used the word inner child. She's using the lightworker. She believes that she's a light to humanity and has a higher consciousness. So this is the record from her saying that she is sane, she's present, and that she's doing her work, so to speak, from her potential trauma that she alluded to in some of her previous videos that you've shown. That is not someone who.

[Nancy Grace]

I gotta ask you a question, Dr. Janie Lacey. I'm just wondering if you function, you know, when medical doctors don't like you to go to WebMD. They hate it when you Google what you perceive. And of course I do it on myself. Everybody around me, I google their symptoms and I diagnose them. Do you just hate it when somebody has read so many self help books that they diagnose themselves and start treating themselves with what is an inner child? I've heard that a lot. What does that mean? And she refers to the inner child in the third person.

[Dr. Janie Lacey]

So basically what the inner child comes from, it comes from childhood trauma work. So the childhood trauma work is if someone has experienced trauma in their history that they get stuck at that point or they had some type of emotional needs that was not met. So the inner child means the adult self goes back and protects. It's kind of like you become your own parent and you go back and you acknowledge the things that you needed as a young child or the things that you, that happened to you were not your fault. So it's connecting your adult self with your inner, with the parts of you that were frozen, what we call frozen that were unhealed, things that have happened in your history. It's related to a lot of trauma work.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, I'm going to try to drink in everything that you just said. That's a lot. And I'm very curious about why. Samantha Ray Booth is diagnosed with herself. She does not have a mental defect, except that she had an eating disorder and she has self loathing and she drinks too much. That said, let's listen to her on her higher purpose of bringing light, love and healing to the world.

[Samantha Ray Booth (Nanny)]

Being a lightworker feels like speaking an entirely different language that most people around you cannot understand. You feel alone, you feel isolated, you feel like, how do I have this understanding of this language that I was not taught? Society didn't teach me this language. But it came from the inside. It came from your heart. And you have this knowing that there is another path that we can walk down, another way of operating and navigating the world and how we treat ourselves and treat nature and treat community.

[Nancy Grace]

From empath illuminated on TikTok Concerned after not hearing from the nanny, Katie asks her father David to check on her daughter. Upon arrival, he discovers his granddaughter missing. What happens next? The Grandpa comes in, 83. The daughter doesn't hear back from him. She sends brother in law over. He walks in and Samantha Ray Booth comes at him like a bat out of hell. Just keep that visual. Wielding a screwdriver, he somehow manages to pick up the tot girl and run. Listen to this.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Smith and his niece are sent to the hospital. First responders tend to David Ong in the basement. The 83 year old man his family calls the gentle giant is laying on the floor. Massive injuries to his head. Ong is pronounced dead on the scene in the basement. Giving up his own life, protecting his three year old granddaughter.

[Nancy Grace]

Straight out to a special guest joining us, Dr. Thomas Coyne, the Chief Medical Examiner, District 2, Medical Examiner's Office, State of Florida. He is a forensic pathologist, he's a toxicologist, he is a neuropathologist and you can find him on xrtmcoyne c o y n e Dr. Coyne, thank you for taking time away from your crushing schedule of autopsies. Tell me about a screwdriver attack. I've covered and investigated myself so many homicides, I've often thought a knife attack is worse than a shooting. It's just a gut reaction. Having investigated so many cases and tried so many cases, but I haven't contemplated death by screwdriver. Are the puncture wounds with a screwdriver different from the puncture wounds from a knife?

[Tom Green]

Well, they tend to be smaller. Right. Because the diameter of the screwdriver is much smaller than the blade of a knife. And so you tend to have either circular or flat wounds, depending on type of screwdriver. So you can imagine if you've ever used a Phillips head screwdriver, the tip of that screwdriver comes down to a point. There's like a little X there. And in the skin of a person who's been stabbed by Phillips head screwdriver, you may actually see a circular hole with an X mark where that tip penetrated through the skin. Whereas a flathead screwdriver, you may see a small little flat slit with blunt little abrasions. And so you tend to have characteristic wounds that are smaller than a knife wound. And you'll see them distributed very often, you know, in critical areas.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, now, Dr. Coyne, I'm a do it yourselfer. And there are a lot of different sizes of screwdrivers. It could be the little itty bitty one that you do your eyeglasses with, if you wear eyeglasses, or the really big ones that we use when my son was doing his Eagle Scout project. So why are you assuming it's a small screwdriver?

[Tom Green]

I'm not assuming. I'm just saying that the actual diameter of the screwdriver itself. So regardless of whether it's a long screwdriver, the actual diameter of the, of the two portions itself. So, for instance, you know, when you see a wound on a person that may be like a, you know, less than half of an inch, where a blade, let's say, of a regular, let's say steak knife that you have in your house, maybe an inch or 2 inches. And so the actual wound itself tends to be smaller, often circular, especially if you're using a Phillips head, you know.

[Nancy Grace]

There'S something about an attack with a screwdriver. Dr. Coin, I feel that it would be even more painful than a knife attack because the screwdriver, the point is more blunt and it would be harder to pierce the skin. I'm sure you can verbalize my reaction. What would you, how would you respond to that?

[Tom Green]

Well, I think, you know, I mean it's a lot easier for a knife to go in because it has a cutting edge. So it'll go through the skin much easier. Requires less force. When using a more blunt object, you have to use, use much more force. So yeah, I would imagine each blow would be more forceful. I'm assuming a person who's being attacked is probably also in a state of shock, so they may not feel the pain up front. But what's that, what's, what's really the problem here is if it's a long screwdriver number one, it can go in further so it could penetrate the heart. And if you hit a critical area like the temporal portion of your skull, the thinnest part of our skull, that screwdriver, if you're using enough force, can go right into the brain and so you can incapacitate a person pretty fast if you hit the right spot.

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories with Nancy grand. You know Dr. Coyne, I was noticing what we've been able to glean so far is that the grandpa, 83 years old, had a lot of injuries to the head and face, which I find not only probative as to why someone stabs a victim in the face, but you just said temple. Temple area. You think of a temple as somewhere you worship. Why is that part of your your head called the temple?

[Tom Green]

That's a good question. I don't know the Original Greek anatomists who were naming all of the bones, it's the temporal bone, so that's probably where it derives its name from. And so the temple region is the area of skin that overlies our temporal bone. I don't know the meaning behind why they chose that particular word, but that's why we refer to it as a temple.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, she's not called the naked nanny for nothing. But try to put your prurient thoughts aside and listen to what Samantha Raybooth said after the killing.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Samantha Ray Booth drops the screwdriver and her clothes. When police arrive, she's completely naked, covered in blood, and takes off running through the neighborhood. Officers apprehend the 35 year old nanny and place her in the squad car where she begins to brag about the damage she just caused to the Ong family, allegedly telling officers, I effed him up and yes, I did it. It was too easy.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, there you go. Alan l' Engle joining us, editor of Deadline Detroit, formerly with the Washington Post, is an investigative reporter that's not easy to get to. Alan, let me rephrase. The so called naked nanny says I have him up and yes, I did it. It was just too easy. There's your poor wounded deer that you're all trying to exonerate with an acclaimed drug problem or mental defect, bragging about killing grandpa.

[Alan Langel]

I don't think any of us are trying to exonerate. I think, as other people have said, we're trying to understand how the switch got clicked from this very, what appeared to be a caring nanny, a very articulate, introspective person to really an insane person who just lost it. And when we talk about the circumstances, she's charged with first degree murder, which if you look at the totality of the circumstances, and I defer to the lawyers here, be pretty hard. First degree murder in Michigan is mandatory life without parole. Second degree murder can be life, but with the possibility of parole. And so in the totality of just all the circumstances, I think you'd be hard pressed to convict or plea to first degree in there. But I don't think any of us, I don't think any of us are trying to say she should be exonerated. It's insane. I mean, it was a brutal, brutal thing of an elderly gentleman who seemed very loving and caring, had four children, had a very successful career, cared about his grandchild. It's, it's a tragedy. It's, it's horrific. And none of us are saying she should go free. I, the question will Be whether she's currently mentally competent to stand trial. If she were to go to trial. But I'm not. I'm not trying to make excuses just because she's stripped.

[Nancy Grace]

Just because. Well, you are. You are. Why are you saying she's mentally incompetent behavior?

[Alan Langel]

It's insane behavior.

[Dave Mack]

I'm sorry.

[Nancy Grace]

Her murder is insane. While all the other murders, they make perfect sense. Oh, yes.

[Alan Langel]

No, I'm.

[Dr. Janie Lacey]

No.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, you are doing this because she's young and cute and you like what she's doing on TikTok. Yeah. You're all making excuses for her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know what else she did? You know what else you did?

[Alan Langel]

You.

[Nancy Grace]

You can't be on the jury because you're already worried about sentencing. John Day. I know you're not going to like this, but you have tried a lot of cases and isn't it true the jury is not to be concerned about sentencing. They are to speak. They are to render a verdict that speaks the truth. And you guys don't like it because she's young and to you guys, she's cute and you can't imagine her committing a murder. So she's got to be insane or have a mental defect. He's already worried. He's already saying. L' Engle is already saying she'll get life without parole. We can't do that to her. Oh, yes, you can.

[Dave Mack]

No matter what the judge says, every juror considers the effects of a conviction one way or the other. And no matter the judge is going to say, put that your minds. It's not your job. But the reality is, Nancy, we both know from doing trial work that that's not what jurors do. They have that somewhere in the back of their mind. So we can't pretend that they're not going to be thinking about that. But again, what everyone's doing is what I, if I was defending this case as a private lawyer or public defender, would be thinking about, would want the jury to think about.

[Tom Green]

Samantha, can you cover yourself and come.

[Alan Langel]

To the window like the attorney said.

[Nancy Grace]

This is going to happen whether you want it to or not, so we.

[Tom Green]

Might as well just get it done with.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Okay?

[Tom Green]

He's trying to help you. He's laying on the floor at the moment, completely naked in the middle of the cell with no close up.

[Nancy Grace]

John Day is joining us. Veteran criminal defense attorney who founded John Day Law. John, do you have children?

[Narrator/Reporter]

I do.

[Nancy Grace]

Did you ever have one throw themselves in the floor and have a fit?

[Dave Mack]

I'm sure it happened but it may have been, you know, age two or three.

[Nancy Grace]

Possibly, yes. Okay. Both of my children, one time, each one of them loose and John David flung themselves in the floor and had a fit. Kicking, screaming, yanking at their clothes, the whole thing. I just looked at them and walked off. And guess what? That worked. Here to Alan l', Engle, we have Samantha Ray Booth throw herself in the floor of her cell and strip when it's time for arraignment. Not before, not after, but just when it's time for arraignment. Talk about attention seeking. I'm just putting it out there. Thoughts?

[Alan Langel]

Gee, I mean, she could be manipulative. She could be, you know, I mean, the message is I'm crazy, I'm insane. Just in the totality of the whole, whole thing there. But could she be creating drama? Does she know what she's doing? I don't. You know, it's hard to say. I think obviously she needs to be evaluated to. Oh, yes, you know, so with that.

[Nancy Grace]

Alan l', Engle, I agree. I don't want anyone with a mental defect put into gp general population. They will be horribly tormented, tortured, taken advantage of. I don't want that. I also don't want a killer to walk free. Dave Mac, did I just hear you state under your breath pretty is pretty does. Did you say that?

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yeah.

[Nancy Grace]

What do you mean by pretty is as pretty does?

[Narrator/Reporter]

Because you've mentioned that, you know, we might think she's attractive and that's why we're trying to justify her actions. And I'm saying no, absolutely not. You know, you're as pretty as your actions are. And her actions are filthy and evil. And I'm not looking for a reason to justify her actions. And I am looking at Satan who just showed up and put a screwdriver in 83 year old man's head over and over.

[Nancy Grace]

Question. What happens now? Dave Mack, she has been naked, arraigned for premeditated murder. What's happening next?

[Narrator/Reporter]

No bail for her and she actually is scheduled for her next court appearance on the seventh.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, John Day will have a field day putting all of you on his jury. He's already revealed his trial tactic and he might just succeed. This case is being built now and we have heard from her boyfriend who says just before the stabbings that she stated she knew the grandpa was coming over to relieve her for a meal break. That's damning. It's damning because she was in her right mind and she was not surprised by the grandpa when he came in the door. That is a damning facetime and I expect he will be called as a state's witness. If you know or think you know anything about this case, please dial The Royal Oak PD 248-246-3000. Repeat, 248246 3000. We remember an American hero. Senior Patrol Officer Daniel Ellis, Richmond pd, Kentucky, shot and killed in the line of duty after seven years serving and protecting, leaving behind his wife turned widow, Katie, and son Luke. American hero. Senior Patrol Officer Daniel Ellis, Nancy Grace, signing off. Goodbye, friend. Hey, this is Sarah. Look, I'm standing out front of a.m. p.m.

[Samantha Ray Booth (Nanny)]

Right now and, well, you're sweet and.

[Nancy Grace]

All, but I found something more fulfilling.

[Samantha Ray Booth (Nanny)]

Even kind of cheesy. But I like it.

[Nancy Grace]

Sure, you met some of my dietary.

[Samantha Ray Booth (Nanny)]

Needs, but they've just got it all. So farewell, oatmeal.

[Nancy Grace]

So long, you strange soggy.

[Alan Langel]

Break up with bland breakfast and taste.

[Dave Mack]

AM PM's bacon, egg and cheese biscuit.

[Nancy Grace]

Made with K tree egg, smoked bacon.

[Dave Mack]

And melty cheese on a buttery biscuit.

[Tom Green]

AM PM Too much. Good stuff.

[Nancy Grace]

This is an I Heart podcast.