NOLAN WELLS BOMBSHELL: DEAD TEEN'S MESSAGES DELETED AFTER BODY "WASHES ASHORE?"

Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
Episode: NOLAN WELLS BOMBSHELL: DEAD TEEN'S MESSAGES DELETED AFTER BODY "WASHES ASHORE?"
Date: July 21, 2026
Host: Nancy Grace

In this episode, Nancy Grace examines the mysterious death of 18-year-old football star Nolan Wells, whose body was discovered on Horn Island after a Fourth of July celebration with friends. The episode dissects the timeline, conflicting accounts, digital evidence discrepancies—including deleted messages from Nolan's phone—and the many unanswered questions swirling around the case. Nancy is joined by an expert panel including search & rescue professionals, legal experts, investigative journalists, medical experts, and the victim’s family.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Disappearance and Recovery of Nolan Wells

• [00:00–03:20] Nancy Grace introduces the case: Nolan, 18, went with friends to Horn Island for July 4th but was reported missing hours later, sparking a search. His body was found washed ashore by the United Cajun Navy.

• [01:51] Todd Terrell (United Cajun Navy): Describes the search, the "washing machine" currents near Horn Island, and how drowning victims often wash up there.

  "That area...the rip current is very bad...we call it the washing machine." – Todd Terrell [04:04]

• Terrell confirms Nolan was found face down, fully clothed, near where the disappearance occurred.

2. Timeline Conflicts and Mysterious Companion

• [03:08–16:04] Discussion about conflicting reports:

  • A “mysterious girl” (allegedly “Katie”) Nolan met that day is central to the timeline dispute.
  • Katie claims Nolan planned to leave with his friends; his friends say he stayed with her.
  • Snapchat audio reveals a heated altercation (“Give me my effing phone!”), but identification of voices is disputed by friends.

  "The video was tough...there is the assumption that it is Nolan. However, a few other friends have confirmed it's not Nolan..." – Caitlin Becker [13:03]

• Legal expert John Mobley suggests the discrepancies could be a matter of differing perspectives, not outright lies.

  "I think they can be both partially true, depending on perspective." – John Mobley [16:04]

3. The Digital Evidence Mystery: The Missing Phone Data

• [19:07–22:21] Allegations that Nolan’s phone data was wiped:

  • His mother discovered nothing on his phone from July 4th—no Snapchats, photos, or activity despite his known habit of constant phone use.

  • The phone was found with friends; its “Life360” and “Snapchat” location data did not match.

  • Experts and family question the plausibility that Nolan would leave his phone behind.

    "His phone is with him in his pocket all the time, and he even brings his phone to the bathroom. So we know that teens do not leave their phone." – Dr. Janie Lacy [21:12]

  • Forensic analysis of the phone is still pending; experts caution against drawing conclusions from casual inspection of phone contents.

4. Conflicting Location Data

• [22:04–25:34] The Life360 app and Snapchat show conflicting last locations of Nolan before his disappearance, raising questions about where he was and whether he left the island.

  • Nolan’s mother is adamant that the difference is far larger than mere GPS glitches and expects forensic answers.
  • Legal expert Mobley cautions that apps may not always be accurate due to signal issues.

  "Life360 is not always 100% accurate...you need to have a forensic digital data extraction." – John Mobley [24:58]

5. Theories and Jurisdictional Challenges

• [28:10–30:34] Todd Terrell addresses rumors that the body was moved or dumped intentionally. He emphasizes the United Cajun Navy's readiness to deploy search dogs for further investigation.
  • Body recovery occurred on federal land, triggering concerns over who has jurisdiction.
  • Terrell: "If these guys had this phone, they stole his phone. Why didn't they throw it away? ... If it was deleted, forensic, they should be able to find it." [29:36]

6. Family’s Perspective and Conflicts with Friends' Accounts

• [30:34–33:30] Nolan’s parents outright reject the idea that he would have stayed alone or parted with his phone voluntarily.
  • His father: "We always taught him...if you go with a group, you stay with a group...he knew to stay with his group."
  • Nolan’s sister confirms the absence of normal social media activity for a teen known to document his life.
  • Nancy Grace: "But to me, the clear problem is that critical moment where Katie, if she exists, says he went back with his friends, and the friends say, oh, no, we left. He wanted to stay with her right there. That is the first conflict. Both cannot be true." [15:08]

7. The Importance—and Limits—of Digital Forensics

• [26:58–27:40] Lawyers agree a full digital forensic download from the phone is essential; speculation from looking at the phone's contents is not reliable evidence.

  "Just individuals kind of looking at the phone, trying to interpret these things. That's not digital evidence. That would not be visible in court." – John Mobley [26:58]

  "Attorney Eric Hertz...with former law enforcement experts...will help us with the cell phone download. So everybody will be able to see at the same time what the cell phone has." – Ben Crump [27:40]

8. Medical Inquiry & Pending Autopsy

• [36:45–44:38] Dr. Kendall Crowns (Chief Medical Examiner):
  • Explains how autopsy can differentiate between drowning and drug overdose, despite decomposition, and why toxicology is required before declaring a cause of death.
  • The family insisted on a second, independent autopsy out of state for added confidence.
  • "Drowning is a diagnosis of exclusion because it can mimic so many other things, including a drug overdose." – Dr. Crowns [40:23]

9. Emotional and Psychological Impact on Family

• [36:03] Dr. Janie Lacy discusses “ambiguous loss” and the mental health toll on families when circumstances are unclear and investigations are opaque.

  "Grief needs a story to hold on to. And until the family has truth, the grief has nowhere to land." – Dr. Janie Lacy [36:03]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the mysterious altercation:

  "Give me my effing phone. What the F are you doing? ... Get off me. Get the F off this boat. F you, bro." – Alleged Snapchat exchange [13:03]

• On teens and their phones:

  "Teens do not leave their phone. It is their way to communicate. It is attached to them." – Dr. Janie Lacy [21:12]

• On digital evidence:

  "That is not digital evidence. That would not be visible in court. ... Both...you need to have a forensic digital data extraction." – John Mobley [26:58]

• On unresolved questions:

  "Who left him there? Is there really a Katie? Did he stay with her? Did he leave with his friends? How did he end up there alone?" – Nancy Grace [18:03]

• On grief and uncertainty:

  "Grief needs a story to hold on to. And until the family has truth, the grief has nowhere to land. ... transparency in this investigation isn't just a legal issue...it's a mental health intervention." – Dr. Janie Lacy [36:03]

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:51] – Terrell describes the "washing machine" current and discovery of the body
• [13:03] – Snapchat audio altercation and its disputed participants
• [19:07] – Allegation of deleted phone content and digital evidence discrepancies
• [22:04] – Discussion of conflicting Life360 and Snapchat data
• [28:10] – United Cajun Navy's offer for forensic dog search and jurisdiction issues
• [30:34] – Family disputes that Nolan would ever separate from his group or phone
• [36:03] – Psychological implications for family; grief and ambiguity
• [36:45] – Medical examiner explains complexities of autopsy and pending toxicology

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Summary

Nancy Grace and her guests navigate a troubled and murky investigation into Nolan Wells' death, challenging the official narrative and emphasizing contradictory evidence from friends, digital footprints, and family intuition. The episode underscores the gaps, from the absence of phone data and unreliable stories about Nolan’s last moments to the pending autopsy results and jurisdictional confusion. The matter is made more poignant by the impact on Nolan’s family, whose grief is compounded by unanswered questions, lack of closure, and suspicions of concealed truths. The case remains unresolved, as all await the results of the autopsy and digital forensic investigations.

For information regarding the case, Nancy provides the following tip line:
228-769-3063

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This summary captures the heart of the episode and the ongoing quest for justice and answers in Nolan Wells’ case.

Transcript

[A]

This is an I heart podcast, Guaranteed human crime stories with Nancy Grace. Nolan Wells bombshell tonight. The dead teen's messages deleted after his body was washes ashore. Uh, good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Eighteen year old football star Nolan Wells heads to Horn island with his friends to celebrate the fourth of July. But hours later, after he doesn't return

[B]

to shore, his friends report him missing,

[A]

launching a desperate search across the water.

[C]

They met that day and it was kind of, it's kind of one of those things. It did come off that day that he really did like her. But that was the only time they'd ever hung out was at horn island on July 4th.

[B]

We're sinking.

[A]

Can y' all please come and is everybody on board in good health otherwise?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Everybody talks away from our friends at gma. No, everyone was not on board. No one was not on board. And who's the mysterious girl he met for the very first time the day he goes missing? His body spotted by the United Cajun Navy washed ashore. We have obtained that photo. We are choosing tonight not to show it that last sound from our friends at NBC. Joining me in all star panel, but first, straight out to Todd Terrell representing the United Cajun Navy participating in the water search for Nolan Wells. Todd, thank you for being with us. For what did you observe?

[B]

You know, Horn island, that area right there is an area that we have seaplanes that we operate back and forth to the island, taking people back and forth, fishing or oil field workers, you know, back off to rigs and stuff. That morning the body was observed on the northwest portion of Horn island which is not unusual for someone to drown and be washed up in that area. There was a park ranger that was on the island that actually had spotted the body. And we were calling in down to law enforcement officials on the ground, what we saw from the air.

[A]

Todd Terrell joining us from the United Cajun Navy called in to participate in the water search for this young star athlete, Nolan Wells. Tonight, mystery swirling around his death. How is it that a group of his friends go out on a boat, they go to a remote Horn Island. There is nobody there. It's uninhabited there. There are no phones, there are no bathrooms. It's just a hangout place. How does he end up dead on the shore and everybody else makes it back? I want you to hear one more time what the group is saying about that day.

[C]

They met that day and it was kind of, it's kind of one of those Things he did come off that day that he really did like her. But that was the only time they'd ever hung out was at horn island on July 4th.

[A]

From our friends at GMA, who. Who is she? Where is she? What, if anything, did she have to do? If there is a she with no one's death? That's from our friends at gma. Back to you, Todd Terrell. And I'm about to go to Caitlin Becker, senior national correspondent, New York Post on the story from the get go. Todd, you stated to me that it's quote, not unusual for bodies to wash ashore in that spot. What do you mean by that? Because if it was that common, wouldn't this be designated a dangerous area and there would be warning signs. What do you mean it's not unusual? I find that hard to believe.

[B]

Well, many areas along the coast of the whole Gulf coast area is a dangerous area. You know, I don't believe they could put up signs anywhere. I think it should be known that these are, these are bad areas. The rip current is very bad in that northwestern portion. We call it the washing machine. Actually it's an area where the current just, just rolls round and round in there like kind of like a washing machine. And one of the interesting things was where Nolan was found was probably pretty close to where the incident occurred. So the body didn't go that far.

[A]

Okay, what incident? Was there an incident are you suggesting Todd Terrell. Todd Terrell joining us tonight from the United Cajun Navy. Our friends, by the way, at the United Cajun Navy, they are called in on many, many missing persons case. Todd, you stated the incident. What incident? You mean he didn't drown?

[B]

We're saying that whatever happened, we're calling an incident. Our job as United Cajun Navy is to bring people home, back to their families. First of all, alive. Second of all, recover the body if possible. We knew in this case the timeframe that was involved that we were looking for a recovery at this point. But when I said the incident, something happened to make Nolan not be with us anymore. It appears as though it was a drowning. You know, there was a lot of rumors about him being brought back to the land 10 miles away and, and you know, brought back out there and dumped off. I don't, I don't believe any of that is true. Whatever happened in that water, we're calling the incident. You know, the water goes from 2 to 3 foot to like 20ft, real, real quick. You know, there was some underage kids out there drinking. It's an island. You know, there's no IDs being checked or anything like that. So we said an incident. There's anything that could have happened. And not every person that drowns do you hear screaming and hooping and hollering. But at this point, our job was to bring Nolan home, and we did that.

[A]

What was observed, Guys, you're seeing right now from our friends at the United Cajun Navy, the video taken from their aerial craft on the beach, you see a grouping of individuals. Now, from another source, we have obtained photos of Nolan's body that we are not showing. It's just not right. But I can tell you when you see that grouping of people on the beach, they look like little ant figures from this high up above. But that is where no one's body is. They're standing around it. As I recall, Todd Terrell, Nolan was face down, still fully clothed on the beach. Is that correct?

[B]

Yes, that is correct. He was face down, which would have meant that he drowned. Now, when we say he was found fully clothed, beach, it was in the same vicinity of where he possibly drowned, you know, right there. So it was not uncommon for the body to have washed up right there. That being said, that area of rip currents, really strong right there goes from 2 to 3 foot to 20ft, pretty much within a couple steps. So that being said, whatever happened, happened really, really close to where the body was found.

[A]

You know, Todd Terrell, I don't mean to be giving you a hard time. This is not about you. The United Cajun Navy are the protagonist in this scenario. You're the good guys. I've just got so many questions about how this happened. Was there anyone else on Horn island when Nolan's body was found?

[B]

Now, there was a. The park ranger was out there, and there was some law enforcement officials that actually had their boats anchored out there. You know, they were kind of like waiting around for a call of what to do. What people don't realize is when you're looking for a body on the water, especially in the Gulf, where you have waves going and you have white caps, it's a little bit harder to see. When you're in a boat. You can only kind of see the vicinity around you. So we put these SE planes up in the air. We can get a much more visual of the much more bigger area. And these sea planes can go low and slow. So what we do is we stay in contact with the officials on the ground and tell them what we see. And if they see something too, they can relay it up to us and we can go investigate. It. So in this case, there were several law enforcement boats that were just kind of hanging out in the area on the island, and there was numerous other boats in the area, you know, circling and looking. But the body was found by a park ranger as it washed up on the beach.

[A]

You know, very curious, Todd. Guys. Joining us, Todd Terrell with United Cajun Navy. When I said, was anyone else on the island when no one's body was found, your answer was completely 100% accurate. But let me rephrase and refine my question. You're saying the park ranger found him. That leads me to believe there were no friends, there was no newly met girlfriend. So am I left to believe that he goes out swimming all on his own and the friend, girl leaves, the mates from school leave, everybody just leaves him out in the water and he dies and then just conveniently washes ashore. Somebody just left him out in the water? Does that make sense to you, Todd Terrell?

[B]

Well, you know, being. Being a person that goes to this island and several other areas that you can only get to by boat. We have some restaurants and bars in Louisiana that you can only get to by boat, which means you have to hitch a ride with somebody on a boat or that has a boat to get there, which a lot of things could go wrong in that scenario. But as far as what we believe, I believe that Nolan went out there with a group of friends. They were friendly, obviously. So because he was even out there, I mean, you got to understand to go to an island, you have to have a boat, which means you have to have friends. You have to have people that kind of like you to even bring you out there. So when Nolan got out there, the group of guys he was with, you know, they decided to come in a little bit earlier. They were having some Indian trouble in their boat, which is not uncommon. Happens a lot. Nolan, for whatever reason, decided to stay on the island, which is not uncommon. He could have, you know, had this girl he was talking to could have just for whatever reason, decided to stay. Not uncommon. That doesn't give us any reason to think our player or anything was involved there. The issue is, when he stayed on the island, he had to hitch a ride back in with somebody. And there's where the issue becomes. Who did he hitch a ride back in? Exactly? How were these people connected to him? How did they know him? And it's not uncommon for you not to know somebody at all and just say, hey, I need to ride back in, and say, yeah, come on, get in the boat with us. So if I say, hey, Nancy, come on, get in the boat with us, that means at that point, we're responsible for you.

[A]

But Todd, Todd, here's my issue again. I agree with what you said, but the critical moment is somebody had to leave him there alone for the rest of the scenario that you're describing to unfold. He had to be alone. And Todd, and I'm going to bring you the rest of the panel. I want you to hear this. That is from Anna Moore on Snapchat. And you have to listen to very intently to hear what she claims is being said. Todd Terrell, United Cajun Navy. Please don't, don't move. Joining me now, Caitlin Becker, the senior national correspondent, New York Post. She is the star of New York Post Cast. New York Post Cast. That's her podcast. Caitlin, thank you for being with us. Now, according to what this Anna Moore on Snapchat has revealed, you can hear. And this is also according to the attorneys, Give me my effing phone. This is Nolan reportedly talking. What the F are you doing? The friend, they claim, Trayston Shepherd. I can't tell that from what I'm hearing. The friend says, get off me. Get the F off this boat. F you, bro. Now, the voice we believe is Nolan's is give my effing phone. What the F are you doing? And then another voice, get off me. Get the F off this boat. F you. Okay, what do we know? And Caitlin Becker joining us from New York Post, who is this mysterious friend girl, because I want to talk to her.

[D]

I want to talk to her, too, Nancy. The, the video was tough. The Snapchat is really tough because you do clearly hear an angry altercation. There is the assumption that we're working off of that it is Nolan. However, a few other friends have confirmed it's not Nolan. There's actually someone who said it was me, not him. So you have someone coming forward saying that is not him on the video. So then did no altercation actually take place? Or is someone jumping in saying, that's me, to misdirect or to redirect us from looking at it? That's the one question. The other question that you asked is, who's the girl? Her name is apparently allegedly Katie. That's kind of all we know, just Katie. Someone purporting to be related to Katie went on social media. And this is not something that we've been able to confirm, nor have investigators confirmed it, but according to this person, Katie said, we met, we talked. He seemed like he was going back on the boat with his friends, and that was that. So, Katie.

[A]

Okay, hold on right there. Caitlyn Becker. Caitlin. Caitlyn. Caitlyn, right there. The girl, if she exists. Says they talked, they chatted it up, probably flirting with each other, if accounts are true. Then he leaves to go back to the boat with his friends. But according to the friends, he stayed with her right there. That is a conflict that doesn't fit. Now, Caitlin Becker and the rest of the panel, I want you to hear this.

[E]

Is that Nolan in the video?

[F]

I can't tell. It's too far away. But in that video, I feel like the voices are too clear. Like from the side. It's too clear for it to be that far away for it to be Nolan arguing. And then also that altercation. It sounds just like my other friend that got into an altercation on the boat. And they were trying to, like, as he was in the altercation, I was calming him down. They were trying to get him out off the island. They were trying to get him back

[B]

to land because he was just losing it.

[A]

Okay, so you've got. That's from our friend Harvey Levin at tmz. So you've got half the people saying that is no one that's in an altercation and is getting thrown off the boat. And then you got half the people going, oh, no, no, no, no, that's not him. But to me, the clear problem is that critical moment where Katie, if she exists, says he went back with his friends, and the friends say, oh, no, we left. He wanted to stay with her right there. That is the first conflict. Both cannot be true. Those cannot mutually exist. In truth, they're mutually exclusive. He can't go with them and stay with her on Horn Island. Right there. John Mobley joining me, high profile lawyer out of Charleston, South Carolina. John, that's where it starts. That light. I don't know who's lying, but somebody's lying right there. Mobley.

[C]

Well, I don't know that I would necessarily agree with you on that. I think they can be both partially true, depending on perspective. I think one thing we have to kind of keep in mind with this is we have a lot of different people telling things from different perspectives from their own individuals perspectives. It's certainly conceivable that he let his friends leave to stay with the female, if he was with the female, assuming that happened, and once he finished his communication or whatever he was doing with the female, whatever told her he was leaving to go back with his friends. And from her standpoint, he said he was going back with his friends, which did not necessarily mean they were the same friends that dropped him off. So I would disagree with you on that.

[A]

Hold on. Mobley. Let me see. Mobley. Mobley, you're right. Because as I've told many, many juries, as a trial judge once always said in his jury instructions, it is your duty to make all witnesses speak the truth and impede perjury to no one. So actually, what you're saying could be. Could be true if there's another group of friends, if they exist, we haven't heard about them. But you're saying he left with one group and had planned to come back with another group. Okay, I don't know if you're just spinning that out, but that could be possible. Okay, Mobley, listen to this.

[D]

You said that you hear on the

[A]

video, Nolan saying, yes, my freaking phone.

[D]

What are you freaking doing?

[E]

That's what a witness told us, and that's what we reported out. Then another witness that come forward said, no, that was his voice. We have other witnesses who said there were other altercations. So, as Mr. Hurt said, we're trying to go through it all and so forth. And we'll be even more careful to say this is what a witness told us in the future,

[C]

whether it was

[D]

or was not known.

[E]

Now, we have audio people doing it, but we know certain people said it was him, and then certain people said it was not him.

[A]

That is our friend, high profile lawyer Ben Crump. And the last thing you want is him 3 inches up your tailpipe. Okay, that's from our friends at Fox 10. Crime stories with nancy grace. This is where it stands. Who left him there? Is there really a Katie? Did he stay with her? Did he leave with his friends? How did he end up there alone, which I find very, very disturbing. And also back to Caitlin Becker joining a senior national correspondent, New York Post star of NY Post cast the Postcast. Instead of podcast, it's the Postcast. Caitlin. Now, allegations have reared their ugly head that his phone has been tampered with and items have been deleted. Explain.

[D]

They had his phone. And when his mother was looking for his phone, when they. When he was missing, there were two different ways to identify it. Either Snapchat location or a Life360 location. They showed different locations, which is very possible because one updates automatically. The other only updates when you open the app. But when she finally tracked it down, she says there was nothing on it from that day. And this is a teenager. This is a teenager who is constantly on their phones. Yes. When you're on a boat like this and you're, you're out there, you leave it on the boat because you can't really get it wet and you don't want to have it come to the beach with you because you have to actually go in the water to get there. But to have the phone from these friends who didn't willingly turn it over, didn't give it to investigators, didn't give it to his mom, just had it. And for her to open it up and say, I see nothing from that day, no Snapchats, no photos, it looked like things were missing, like there was a gap in the timeline of the life cycle of his phone.

[A]

Okay, I've got another problem regarding his phone. Number one to Dr. Jamie Lacy joining us, licensed psychotherapist, CEO of Life Counseling Solutions, author of, well, many Books, but how to Heal From a Toxic Relationship, and she's the star of let's Talk about it with janie Lacey. Okay. Dr. Janie who leaves their phone behind? Now, look, I just got off a boat with my twins. We went fishing all over the panhandle. We have what you call dry bags. We don't leave our phone anywhere because what if we need it? What if we need it out in the middle of nowhere and we were on a little strip of land right off the Gulf where, like Horn island, there's no people. We were there fishing alone, believe it or not, and we had our cell phones. Now I'm an adult, a teen. What teen leaves their cell phone? None.

[G]

Exactly, Nancy. I have a teenager. His phone is with him in his pocket all the time, and he even brings his phone to the bathroom. So we know that teens do not leave their phone. It is their way to communicate. It is attached to them. So when I think about what we're talking about right here is right, concealment. And I can't speak to what these young people did, but I can tell you, especially young people when it comes to their phone. And they're constantly posting things. It is their norm. So when it comes to deleting, hiding, or even going silent at after a tragedy, to me it's almost always driven by fear. Fear of potential blame, fear of consequences, fear of what the truth might mean about themselves. But we know that secrets don't protect. And when teens don't have their phone or when their phone potentially is taken from their friends, we know that there's a reason behind that. It's usually driven by, by fear, Nancy.

[A]

Okay, I got another issue. Caitlin Becker joining us with new York post. Caitlin, the Life 360 seems to show something very different than other digital evidence. What do you know about that discrepancy?

[D]

It comes down to location where the Life360 shows him on dry land versus where the Snapchat showed him in the water, where he was and where the phone was positioned. So that is something that I think forensic investigators have to look into, digital forensic investigators, because it's difficult to determine from looking at it from our perspective. Where was the phone actually? Was it out on the water at the last time it was used? Was it on dry land at the last time it was used? And when his mom went to go pick it up, who was the last person to have used it? That's something that sticks out to me because I have to imagine it was password protected. And why would someone else have his password? But it seems as though his mom did or that they did, so they were able to get into the phone. So the timeline of his disappearance is a big question mark because you're getting two different locations from two different apps.

[H]

So they open up their Snapchat because a lot of the kids do have their locations where they're tracking one another. So one of the boys says, well, it's showing that. I think I can't exactly remember what his location was showing, but my Life 360 location was showing something completely different. It was actually showing that his phone was like he was on land. And so we ended up she received the phone from that parent. So the Snapchat location looks completely different than the Life360 location. So when I pulled up Life360, it was different. It was showing everywhere the phone had been. Like it had. I was like, well, it's showing that he's back on land. Like, I'm not. He's like, but no, he didn't come back with us.

[A]

N o. I've tracked my son 100 times. When he's fishing and it shows he's in the water. When he's off the water, it shows he's on land. The mom is right. You were just hearing Christine Wansley. That is no one's mother. From our friends at national action network and GMA. Okay, I got a big problem with the Life360 and the phone data all not jiving. I could see it John Mobley being a few blocks off. But not the discrepancy his mother is describing. I'm not buying that. And another thing, while we're talking about discrepancies, I John Mobley, do you have Children.

[C]

I have children. I got life 360. I use the iPhone location tracker. I will tell you, even though I'm not a digital Data expert, that Life360 is not always 100% accurate. I think in general, you have to kind of keep in mind with all of these phones that they're dependent upon the signal, they're reaching the coverage. I mean, as you know, you can have a group of people together, which means they're going to take up more bandwidth and that's going to cause signal interruption, I think be premature for anyone to try to interpret the data without an accurate digital download being conducted on the phone.

[A]

Oh, okay. I'm sure Life360 in the iPhone industry is going to call you on that. I'm really surprised at this juncture, Molly, that you'll actually argue with digital forensic evidence. But. Okay, who should I believe? You or the phone? The Live 360 and the iPhone tracker. But that said, the reason I asked you. Oh, I'm hearing something. And it's you, Mobley. If you have teens, you should know about Snapchat. Okay? At the supper table, the children go, did you see so and so? I'm like, no, I didn't. And they go, oh, here's a snap. They hold it up and they go, don't touch it, mother. Or it will, I don't know, delete. I don't know what it does to it. But a Snapchat, you get to look at it once and it's gone. See, that's a problem forensically and law enforcement wise with Snapchat, because they're gone. Unlike a text, or you send a photo or an email or you send a video as Alex Murdock that nailed his coffin, those stay Snapchats disappear into the ether. So if the Snapchats aren't there, I can understand that. If there are texts deleted, I don't understand that. Okay, let's hear you explain that digital phenomena.

[C]

Now, I want to be clear. I want to just, you know, go back to what you talked about earlier. You talked about the digital evidence. There has not been digital forensic evidence extracted from the cell phone yet. What you have are the young man's parents interpreting what they see on the phone and speculating that something must be missing. That's what you have. But both, you know, you need to have a forensic digital data extraction incorrect that can determine the text messages were sent. Were they deleted? If photos are deleted, all that needs to be done. I mean, there's no doubt about that whatsoever. But Just individuals kind of looking at the phone, trying to interpret these things. That's not digital evidence. That would not be visible in court. And actually, you know, it would not be reliable.

[E]

We also agreed that we will have a mutual inspection of the cell phone with our experts and their experts. Attorney Eric Hertz is helping lead the investigation team with former law enforcement experts who are going to help us with the cell phone download. So everybody will be able to see at the same time what the cell phone has.

[A]

Guys, that is our friend Ben Crump standing with the family. That's also from our friends at wlox. You know, Todd Terrell is with us, repping the United Cajun Navy. He was called in to participate in the water search for Nolan Wells. Todd, I'm curious about a theory that you threw out. It's not your theory, but it is a theory that has been discussed about his body being moved.

[B]

Well, as far as the body being moved, several things there. Like I said before, our mission is to bring a body home or bring a person back to their family and their, you know, their loved ones. This is on federal land. So who has jurisdiction? First of all, it seems as though there's federal jurisdiction out there. The fact that they say in the body was moved. We've offered our services. We have some of the best of the best dogs available. Mr. Darius, case in Baton Rouge, where the kid was dumped in a landfill. We were the ones instrumental in helping bring that to light, where they're searching for him right now because of our dogs. What they found at the gentleman's house that's in jail for murder, we offered our dogs to bring to the boat. There's only one thing. There were clean blood off of a boat. I'm not going to mention it because it'll give people ideas, but I doubt if somebody would have done something. They would have used this chemical to remove the blood. So we've offered our services to bring the dogs around the boat of everyone that was potentially involved in this. So the federal land thing is a big deal. So the body being dumped, I would say that let us bring the dog to the boat. Let us bring it. They said the boat was clean that night or the night day before. There's only one thing that's going to clean it. If there's blood in that boat, we'll find it. The other thing is getting back to the phone. If these guys had this phone, they stole his phone. Why didn't they throw it away? Why didn't they just throw it in the water? And if There is anything on. If it was deleted, forensic, they should be able to find it. You know, my thing is, if you came with these guys and they didn't bring you home, that is not uncommon. So I think there's where the focus needs to be. A, unless get this notion that there was a body dumped, let's bring the dogs to that boat, and we'd be willing to offer our services to go check that out. And B, these guys in the boat that he came with, it's okay that they left him on the island or they didn't bring him in. But, yeah, as far as the body being dumped, our services are offered, and they've been offered to go bring the dogs around that boat.

[E]

Nolan voluntarily said he's going to stay behind, and his parents and friends outright reject that. They said that is not of Nolan's character or disposition. And had he done so, would he have ever not wanted his cell phone? The young lady he was talking to who said he told her that he was going to get back into the boat with the boys, and then the boys said that Nolan said he was gonna stay and talk with her. Obviously, the statements conflict with one another. We always taught him to, if you go with a group, you stay with a group. Even when he was in college, he would say, dad, well, we're gonna ride down to a party or something in another city. I was at, look, if you go with five, you come back with five. Do not separate from your group. I always said, safety is in numbers. And he always said, yes, sir. So he knew to stay with his group. So why would he split from his group? I don't know.

[H]

We went in his Snapchat. He had two accounts, absolutely nothing. It wasn't even 24 hours, which is how long videos and pictures stay in Snapchat. And I was just like, that can't be. Like, I've seen Nolan whenever he snaps, like when he goes and he's having fun, like he does videos, like, there was absolutely nothing, no saved videos. And even my sister was like, yeah, that's suspicious.

[A]

You know, that is Nolan's family. The family lawyer with our friends GMA and PBS. Crime stories with nancy grace, Caitlin Becker with a senior national correspondent, New York Post, star of NY Postcast. Caitlin a lot right there. Okay, you got crump. And he's saying, it is not Nolan's character to have stayed behind to start with or much less without his phone. He identifies the conflict that we have identified tonight between the two stories. The dad insists he would never have parted with all of his friends. And last but not least, we're hearing not only did Snapchats disappear, but that no one was a videographer, a photographer. He always took pictures of the fun times. He was having moments with his friends, games, the whole shebang. But they're all gone. There are not any. I also find that disturbing. Caitlin.

[D]

It's a little odd that there was nothing on the phone seemingly from that day. That. That does strike me as odd. I do want to push back a little or set the stage a little bit for what this day was like. There were multiple boats going out at the same time to this island. They were filling up with a few teens. They left. The next group kind of got in. This is for the reporting and for what some of the witnesses said there was maybe a couple hundred people on that island that day, that a lot of them were young. It was supposed to be some big kind of summer extravaganza before everybody, you know, went back to school. So I don't think, think it's accurate to say he wouldn't go back with his friends or he didn't go back with his friends or he didn't intend to go back with his friends, because I think there were more than just those four friends on one boat that he. It sounded like the intention was for him to go with another group. Where I get stuck is the point that Ben Crump made. Why would he let his phone go back with his friends? Sure you want to stay and go back with another group? I get that you heard, you know, the person who was part of the search saying that's not uncommon. It does sound uncommon for anyone, a teenager, an adult, anyone to say, okay, go ahead and take my phone back with you. I'll stay without a means of communication for however long. That's what gets me. Why would anybody let their phone go on another boat without them with no plan to get it back?

[A]

Exactly. Now, regarding Snapchat, they delete immediately. Once they're opened, they can go about 30 days unopened, but you can manually set Snapchat to a 24 hour delete. And I'm wondering if that's what his mother is talking about. And on another front, listen, we had

[E]

his body flown from Mississippi to Washington, D.C. because his family wanted to make sure that they had a doctor who had no ties to Mississippi law enforcement to do an independent examination of their son's body. And we are hopeful to get that results in the very near future.

[A]

There is famed attorney Ben Crump speaking, the parents standing behind him. No one's parents reference at Fox 10. Dr. Weigh in.

[G]

You know, Nancy, you know what I would want to stress is what we see with Christine, who is living through what we call ambiguity, loss. Right. And it is one of the most excruciating forms of grief there is when a mother buries her child without hers, her nervous system can't even begin to close the wound because them searching her last memories, a hug and a kiss over a salmon dinner and then silence. So grief needs a story to hold on to. And until the family has truth, the grief has nowhere to land. And that's, that's why transparency in this investigation isn't just a legal issue. In my mind, it's a mental health intervention. For the answers are how they how heal.

[A]

Joining us now, renowned guest Dr. Kendall Crowns, Chief medical examiner, Tarrant County. He is the star of a hit podcast, mayhem in the Morgue. He is the esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU and has performed well over 10,000 autopsies. Dr. KendallKraus, thank you for being with us. Okay, I don't have a ruling from the medical examiner. It should be apparent if drowning was the COD cause of death. That should be very apparent by simply autopsying the lungs. Also, you'd know immediately if there were signs of trauma. I've seen the photos of his body on the beach, but as Todd Terrell from United Cajun Navy stated, the body was face down, so I couldn't see the face, the neck, the arms, the hands for defensive wounds. I couldn't see if there were bruises to the torso. I couldn't see if the skull was fractured. None of that. I couldn't see if teeth were missing. But it seems to me if those exhibited, we would know there had been blunt force trauma, stabbing, shooting, manual or ligature asphyxiation. We would know that. But yet we know nothing. So to me, that would rule out drowning or trauma. Are they waiting on toxicology? Is that what they're waiting on? And why would the body have been sent for an independent autopsy? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but what's going on? Dr. Kendall? Crowns.

[F]

Okay, to start with, he was in the water for several days. I'm sure the water in that area is warm. So his body is going to be decomposing. He'll have skin slippage. He's going to have bloating from the decompositional gases and then purge fluid coming out of his mouth and other orifices. So then you also probably have post mortem animal scavenging or marine aquatic life scavenging, that can create marks on the body as well. So at autopsy, your question, wouldn't you be able to see the evidence of injury? Yes, you should still be able to see injuries, bruises, stab wounds, gunshot wounds, all that, even in decomposition, can still be seen, can still be determined. He doesn't sound like he's been consumed by aquatic life to the point that he's skeletonized in the front of his body. So my assumption is you would still be able to see injuries. Now, they have not given a definitive cause and manner of death yet because to me that means there's no obvious signs of injuries or no obvious cause of death. Because drowning, yes, the lungs can swell and be heavy with fluid, but this can also happen with drug overdoses. So differentiating a drowning from a drug overdose is difficult. So you.

[A]

No, no. Yes.

[F]

Well, I don't know how many on

[A]

top of it manifest in the same,

[F]

but I've done a lot, so absolutely zero.

[A]

But I don't need to have my MD or be the lecturer at Burnett School of Medicine to know that if the lungs are full and it could be drowning or fluid caused by an overdose, can't you get the fluid and test it?

[F]

So testing of the fluid from the lungs, there's nothing to test for. What you're going to look for is the pulmonary edema or fluid in the lungs. And you're going to try and differentiate a drug overdose from drowning with a toxicologic study, which is what they're doing. And that can take up to six to eight weeks. Drowning is a diagnosis of exclusion because it can mimic so many other things, including a drug overdose. You want to rule those things out before you determine cause and manner of death. And that's probably what they're doing. They're making sure he didn't overdose before they make the decision that he drowned. Now, the second autopsy being done, that's just the family obviously has no confidence in the local medical examiner slash coroner system and they've sent it to an independent person to do a second autopsy. Not uncommon, especially in cases that are more high profile or there's some sort of dispute. And they send it to an independent person to do a second autopsy to see what they can find. And from my knowledge, the information on that still isn't out yet. So they're also probably trying to find out what the toxicologic studies are going to show before they make a decision. So right now we're kind of pending on what drugs he has on board before they Make a. Make a cause and manner of death

[A]

statement, Dr. Kendall crowns. I understand. And I also understand your explanation regarding the potential drowning fluid in the lungs as opposed to or compared to the fluid in the lungs. If there had been an overdose, if he's found right there, face down, it looked to me like in the surf. Not out in the water floating, but up on the beach. So even if that was the least of it, the water still would have gone into his nose and mouth. If he were alive, he could have inhaled it or ingested it. Even if a drug overdose was the true cod. Which would require, I guess, what, Dr. Crowns, a dual finding, drowning and OD. And I'll just state for the record, let it be noted in the record, that I have never performed an autopsy, but I'm glad you pointed that out. So what about the fluid in the lungs? If there had been an od? And by the way, there is no suggestion that drugs were used that day. None whatsoever. But that said, you're saying that there would be no difference in the fluid found in his lungs.

[F]

So with a drowning, you're going into heart failure at some point from the anoxia created or the lack of oxygen to the brain created by the drowning because there's no air and water. And that causes your body to shut down, which causes fluid to back up and causes pulmonary edema or swelling of the lungs. The same process happens in a drug overdose. But when you're drowning and you're inhaling that water, you get some water in your lungs as well, but you're also swallowing, gulping it, throwing back up, and then swallowing and gulping it again. So you'll have water in your stomach that you can look for in a drowning. Not always. And sometimes you'll get water in a area in your sinus cavity called the sphenoid sinus as well. But the pulmonary edema created by drowning looks exactly like the pulmonary edema created by a drug overdose. So you can't really differentiate the two of those, and that's why the drug testing is so important. And yes, you are correct. If drugs come back on board, like, let's just say fentanyl, it would be part one, drowning, part two, fentanyl toxicity, and then manner would be accident. So it's going to be a drowning no matter what. But is there going to be a toxicology component added on? And that's probably what they're working on as we speak.

[A]

In the last hours, this young man with his life before him has been laid to rest. His parents attending his funeral instead of getting ready for his next big school event. Getting ready for fall school. We wait as justice unfolds. If you know or think, think you know anything regarding Nolan's Death, please dial 228-769-3063. We remember American hero Deputy Sheriff Adam Heitman. Creek County Sheriff's Oklahoma. Passed away in the line of duty after six years, leaving behind a grieving wife, Samantha, and two little girls, Olivia and Chloe. American hero Deputy Sheriff Adam Heitman. Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then, good night. This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.