Outrage! Only Fans "Model" to Walk Free On Murder Charges!

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: Outrage! Only Fans "Model" to Walk Free On Murder Charges!

Date: August 11, 2026

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Overview

In this charged episode, Nancy Grace and her expert guests dissect the controversial plea deal that allows OnlyFans model Courtney Clenney, accused of fatally stabbing her boyfriend Christian Obumseli, to likely walk free on murder charges after serving minimal prison time. The episode probes themes of domestic violence (with a reversal of typical gender roles), legal strategy, the reliability of self-defense claims, judicial discretion, and perceived failures in the pursuit of justice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Case: What Happened?

• Courtney Clenney, an OnlyFans model, fatally stabbed her boyfriend, Christian Obumseli, in their Miami high-rise apartment.
• Clenney claimed self-defense, stating she "threw" the knife in fear during an altercation after years of a volatile relationship.
• Evidence, including surveillance and audio recordings, suggests a lengthy pattern of violent behavior by Clenney against Obumseli.
• Despite being originally charged with second-degree murder, Clenney received a plea deal to manslaughter and is likely to be released from prison in under two years due to time served and good behavior credits.

Forensic Dispute: Was It Murder or Self-Defense?

• Wound Analysis:
  • The stab wound was 8cm (about 3 inches) deep, severing a major artery, causing rapid blood loss and death (05:10).
  • Dr. Jan Gorniak, forensic pathologist, calls Clenney’s claim—that a thrown knife caused this injury—"absolutely not credible" (30:06, 44:48).
  • Multiple guests scoff at the pig carcass video Clenney’s defense presented to support the knife-throwing claim.

“You cannot stab somebody three inches deep, sever an artery, by throwing a kitchen knife at them. Try it. Intent can be formed just like that.”—Nancy Grace (08:18)

Domestic Violence & Gender Stereotypes

• Clenney documented beating, berating, and abusing Obumseli, with elevator surveillance footage and witness accounts confirming her as the primary aggressor (06:37, 17:29).
• Dr. Janie Lacey and others stress how rare it is for male victims in abusive relationships to be taken seriously or to vocalize their suffering (22:49).
• Nancy emphasizes Obumseli’s repeated victimization and public misunderstandings about male victims.

Victim’s Perspective

• Audio recordings played on-air capture Clenney berating and cursing Obumseli for misplacing her phone, illustrating the everyday abuse he endured (24:34–27:00).

“All day, every day, every night, 24/7, 365... the screaming, the cursing, the threatening over finding the cell phone. Every day, getting abused like that. And now he's dead.”—Nancy Grace (27:00)

• Obumseli allegedly sent texts foreshadowing his demise, indicating he feared loving Clenney would "end his life" (47:09, 51:06).

Legal Strategies & Plea Deal Controversy

• Several experts, including lawyer Mark Astor and private investigator Robert Crispin, debate the rationale for taking a plea:
  • Astor concedes prosecution may reasonably fear an acquittal due to mutual accusations of violence, even as he finds the "thrown knife" defense unconvincing (13:23).
  • Nancy lambasts prosecutors for lacking "the balls" to go to trial, attributing the plea to prosecutorial cowardice or laziness (16:40).
  • Crispin and others consider the plea a miscarriage of justice and a slap in the face to law enforcement (09:05).
• Defense attorneys Sabrina Puglisi and Frank Prieto attribute the deal to evidence supporting Clenney’s abuse claims and the challenges of disproving reasonable doubt (37:52, 40:13, 38:26).
• The defense’s reliance on the “battered partner” narrative is met with skepticism by Nancy and her guests, citing lack of credible evidence of Obumseli’s aggression (14:17, 53:05).

Release Timing & Legal Outcomes

• With four years already served in pretrial detention, Clenney could be released from state prison in as little as 18 months with good behavior credits (32:09).
• Grace is incensed, highlighting that Obumseli is “in a casket forever” while Clenney walks free thanks to legal maneuvering (37:52).

Memorable Quotes & Moments

Nancy Grace's Signature Outrage

• “What is she, too pretty for jail?... The dead victim wasn't pretty when the cops found him bleeding out on the floor.” (03:42)
• “It's kind of like patting the devil on the back saying good job. But in their world, this is a major win.” (54:38)

Forensic Commentary

• “The hardest part to stab through is the skin. So there had to be a lot of force to break through... I don't believe the knife-throwing incident.” —Dr. Jan Gorniak (30:06)

On Domestic Abuse Dynamics

• “Why did he stay in it? Now he's dead.” —Nancy Grace (22:49)
• “Men are the victims of abuse... they have this perception, I'm a man, I should take it... or if I just do what she wants, maybe it'll go away.” —Dr. Janie Lacey (22:49)

Defense Arguments and Nancy’s Rebuke

• “She suffered abuse at the hands of her abuser. She’s started the path to recovery from her PTSD.” —Frank Prieto, defense attorney (40:13)
• “She is a really bad people. She stabbed her boyfriend dead after years of abuse. ...She's a bad people.”—Nancy Grace (35:05, 36:10)

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Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment / Quote / Speaker | Notes | |------------|----------------------------|-------| | 02:22 | “Outraged tonight…”—Nancy Grace | Show launch, stakes set | | 05:10 | “8cm deep in his chest…”—Larry Seward | Forensic wound details | | 08:18 | “Intent can be formed just like that…”—Nancy Grace | Legal analysis on murder intent | | 17:29 | “Everything…always said that…Clenney...aggressor.” —Dave Mack | Pattern of abuse, victim perspective | | 22:49 | “It is rare that men report abuse, but I see it all the time…” —Dr. Janie Lacey | Discussion on male victims | | 24:34–27:00| Christian’s recording of Clenney’s tirade | Evidence of abuse | | 30:06 | Dr. Gorniak’s forensic analysis | Knife-throwing claim debunked | | 32:09 | Larry Seward explains the plea deal | Release calculation | | 35:05 | “She is a really bad people…” —Nancy Grace | Judicious rebuke | | 37:52 | Defense attorney interviewed: “It’s because of the evidence in this case...” —Sabrina Puglisi | Defense logic on plea | | 44:48 | “She says... ‘he was like, squirting blood,’ her words, not mine…” —Nancy Grace | Forensic support for close-range attack | | 51:06 | Obumseli’s foreboding text | Victim’s premonitions | | 53:05 | “How deep was the wound?” —Nancy Grace & Puglisi’s response | Defense’s knife-throwing argument | | 54:38 | Nancy’s closing thoughts | Summary of the case’s broader significance |

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Expert Panel & Roles

• Nancy Grace (Host): Former prosecutor, relentless victim advocate, challenges all sides, especially the defense and prosecutor's rationale for the plea.
• Robert Crispin: Private investigator, former homicide detective. Strongly critical of the plea, provides on-the-ground law enforcement reaction.
• Dr. Jan Gorniak: Forensic pathologist, former Clark County ME. Unambiguously refutes self-defense knife-throw evidence.
• Dr. Janie Lacey: Licensed psychotherapist. Discusses toxic relationship dynamics and male victims of abuse.
• Mark Astor: Defense attorney. Plays devil’s advocate, explaining possible reasons prosecutors cut a deal.
• Larry Seward: Investigative reporter. Details case facts, timelines, and legal processes.
• Sabrina Puglisi & Frank Prieto: Defense attorneys for Clenney. Justify plea deal, cite (alleged) abuse evidence.

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Conclusion: Justice Denied?

• Nancy and many guests see the outcome as a "travesty" wherein overwhelming evidence of abuse and premeditation was minimized by legal technicality and prosecutorial reticence.
• The episode concludes with a lament for the victim, warning about the dangers of toxic relationships and the difficulties male victims face gaining protection or justice.
• Nancy remains outraged at the legal system’s shortcomings, the willingness to accept improbable defenses in the absence of a trial, and the perception that Clenney’s appearance and notoriety influenced the outcome.

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Final Thought:
Nancy Grace, known for her fierce advocacy for victims, frames this episode as a call to examine not just this specific miscarriage of justice, but the broader failings in how the justice system treats complex domestic violence cases—especially when gender stereotypes cloud judgment.

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Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

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[Andrea Gunning]

This is Andrea Gunning from Betrayal Weekly. This is a stunning story based on the hit true crime podcast Betrayal. He was a tall, handsome police officer, the man of her dreams. Caroline knew right away he was the man she would spend her life with. But then she got a text that changed everything. The man she loved was having affair after affair with so many different women in his cop car while on duty. I implore you to watch Betrayal Dirty Secrets now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney.

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[Nancy Grace]

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Now I'm stuck down a rabbit hole filled with images of alarmingly graphic sores in various stages of ooze.

[Nancy Grace]

I can clear my search history, but I can never unsee that.

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[Nancy Grace]

Outraged tonight and an only fans model. And I say that holding my nose. An only fans model is set to walk free on murder charges. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.

[Robert Crispin]

Oh my God. Oh my God, oh my God. I'm covered in his vlog. Okay, I understand that. I understand that. And if I don't, if I don't yell, what will I do with him? All right, I need him. He's like my other half. How many times do you stop him? I did not stab him once. I just threw it because I was scared. You threw the knife?

[Dr. Janie Lacey]

Threw it.

[Robert Crispin]

I grabbed a knife and I said don't come anywhere close to him. I absolutely no intention of using using it. Up. Right now. You get up right now. Get up right now. Baby, baby, baby, Baby, wake up. Wake up. Wake up. What's keep him sitting upright? Listen to me. Get up.

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Get up.

[Nancy Grace]

What is she to pretty for jail? Because I can tell you this, the victim, the dead victim wasn't pretty when the cops found him bleeding out on the floor. And tonight we learn that an only fans model not judging. I'm not the church lady. I don't care what she does in her spare time. But this is the stabbing of an unarmed man. And she admits that she stabbed him, but claims she threw the knife at him. Hey, let's pull up the pig carcass video. I never thought in law school when I was working away on law review that the words pig carcass video. There you go. Let's just drink that in for a moment. Yes, that is a pig carcass. This woman's defense is in self defense. She throws a knife, throws a knife at the boyfriend that she has been beating and abusing for years and is caught on video on an elevator for one example. And that she threw it exactly at him with such force that it. What? Larry Seward. Larry, joining us, investigative reporter, CBS Miami. How tell me about the wound on the victim.

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Oh, the wound to Christian Obucelli, who's The victim here, 27 year old, 8 cm deep in his chest. It's severed in artery. That is how he died. He died at a hospital.

[Nancy Grace]

Please speak imperial. 8cm equals how many inches? What are we talking about?

[Amazon Health AI / Ads]

Well clearly this is a wound deep enough to not just cut the vessels, this severed an artery. This is a very deep wound that he suffered. And what Courtney Clenney is saying is that she threw it and that that throw got the knife lodged in his chest deep enough to do that. Now Obucelli's family says this is clearly a stabbing that happened from a close distance away from the victim. Of course we won't see any more evidence because the case never went to trial.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, you know what Larry? Investigative reporter, cbs. Larry Seward. Straight out to Robert Crispin joining us. Private investigator with Crispin Special Investigations, former federal task force for the U.S. department of justice, the DEA Miami Field Office Homicide Detective Crimes against Children. It goes on and on. Crispin, you heard C word. That's three inches deep. Severed. Did you hear what he Said it's severed an artery. What, by throwing a knife? Really? She's lying through her teeth. And she is going to walk free, Crispin. She's walking free. So you know what? You're law enforcement. What do all the cops have to say? They work their tails off. Blood, sweat, and tears for her to walk free when she has been beating and abusing him. You know how rare that is? That the woman is the aggressor? I. I usually don't even believe it, but all the friends, all the acquaintances have told us time and time again how she would slap him, beat him, verbally abuse him in public, and he would just sit there and take it. We've even got her on video on an elevator beating his ass. And she's walking free. Crispin, help me.

[Robert Crispin]

You know, I don't think anybody gets that plea. Especially with the history of their two year relationship and all the domestic violence calls, the video in the elevator, the arrest out in Las Vegas, getting the digital evidence out of her phone, where she kept her own diary and log of how she needs to stop being so violent against Christian. I'm coming to you out front of the Parisio, the one Parisio in Miami where 24, 22 floors up, this thing happened. And these neighbors are glad it's over because they're tired of the cameras. But nobody is happy with this plea. I think if any of this evidence would have got out, a jury would have found her guilty of second degree murder. Do I think this was premeditated? Absolutely not. But with the history of domestic violence.

[Nancy Grace]

You stop right there. Excuse me. Crispin. Crispin. I'm sorry. When did you get your juris doctorate?

[Robert Crispin]

Yeah, I don't need it for this case. Nancy, there's enough evidence here to put this girl away.

[Nancy Grace]

No, no. N o. Intent can be formed in the twinkling of a moment, the blink of an eye, and the time it takes to pull a trigger, much less pick up a knife and throw it, which is a lie. You cannot stab somebody three inches deep, sever an artery by throwing a kitchen knife at them. Try it. Try it. Intent can be formed just like that. And the time it takes her to pick that knife up, Crispin, that is the law. And I don't care what those people living in that luxury high rise want in this case. Don't care. I want what the victim's family wants. You think they want her to walk free? No, they don't want her to walk free.

[Robert Crispin]

Not at all. Absolutely not. And this is a travesty of justice. This is A. This is a slap to law enforcement's face. Of all the hard work that they put in and the state attorney's office and the prosecutors put into this. Obviously, Nancy, something happened behind the scenes. Some piece of evidence, something somewhere along the line led the state attorney's office to believe they could have an issue with some part of this evidence or testimony that would have found her not guilty or found that one juror. What?

[Dr. Janie Lacey]

What?

[Dr. Jan Gorniak]

What?

[Nancy Grace]

You know what? Again, I don't know what. Who killed Robert Crispin and is wearing his skin. Because that is crazy talk. Have you ever heard of a lazy prosecutor? We had them in our office when we had about 80 lawyers, everybody. The defense attorneys would dance down the halls with glee when their case was assigned to these prosecutors. They wouldn't go to trial, no way, no how, come, hell or high water. They were gonna take a plea and everybody knew it. That was where you go to get a cheap plea. And that's what happened here. There's nothing wrong with this evidence. As a matter of fact. Control room. Let's see a little that body cam where she's perfectly fine. No bruises, no scrapes, no nothing. She's only covered. Oh, can you please pull up your top, woman? Do I have to see that right here at suppertime? Do I have to? He's lying in the floor, bleeding out, and she is perfectly fit as a fiddle, doing what she does best, showing her breasts to whoever wants to look at it. Not me. Woman covered in her fiance's blood. Now to Mark Astor, joining us, high profile lawyer at a Boca Raton, criminal defense attorney at Aster Simovich and star of podcast the Journey by Mark Astor. Mark, how are you? Did this happen? I'm angry and I want justice. I mean, I've been hearing about this case. Now, did you know this is four years almost to the day that he was stabbed dead? I have seen his mother crying, begging for justice. What's she gonna do now? Just go lay down on the train track and wait for a train?

[Mark Astor]

Nancy, there's some things you said I agree with and some things that you said I disagree with. First of all, the idea that she threw the knife at him, I agree, is completely ridiculous, but that does not negate the idea that this was a self defense case. There's also evidence that this was a very volatile relationship and she may well have been the instigator of some of these.

[Nancy Grace]

Excuse me, Mark. Excuse me. I actually want you to hold that thought, but let me have a word with the New York control room very quickly. The victim is dead. I don't need to see her TNA tonight, okay? The whole world has seen. All you have to do is.

[Dr. Janie Lacey]

What?

[Nancy Grace]

How much is an only fan subscription? $10.

[Robert Crispin]

Whatever.

[Nancy Grace]

You can see it all. You want to show me something? You show me the prior incidents of her beating on him. And that body Cam, she's fit as a fiddle. And he's dead in the floor. How is that self defense? Aster, I apologize. Please start over and I will try not to interrupt you this time unless I see more tna.

[Mark Astor]

Perfectly. Okay, so I think there's a couple things. One, just because there's a plea doesn't mean to say that the prosecutors were lazy, okay? I think there's evidence to suggest that this is a good self defense case. Now, I know there's evidence that she was the aggressor, but I believe there's also evidence that at some point he was the aggressor. This was a volatile relationship. So just because you have a decedent doesn't mean to say that there's not going to be an acquittal. That's number one. Number two, you have the decedent's family who apparently wanted to get this case resolved. And if I'm defending this woman, I'm going to probably drag his name and his reputation through the mud so that I can argue to a jury that the self defense was reasonable. And I have to believe that the family didn't want to go through that, didn't want to have their loved one's name and reputation sullied and dragged through the mud. So I think there's also that.

[Nancy Grace]

Excuse me. Excuse me.

[Robert Crispin]

What?

[Nancy Grace]

Are you clairvoyant or you got. Did you bring your crystal ball today? You can look in it and you can tell me what the victim's family wanted. Where are you getting this? Why are you saying this? And you know what? I've never tried a single murder case and I've tried plenty. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck, okay, Esther? So don't pull that on me.

[Mark Astor]

I appreciate what you're coming from.

[Nancy Grace]

In a murder case, the victim is dragged through the mud. They used cocaine. No, they didn't. They were drunk. No, they weren't. She was cheating. No, she wasn't. They'll say anything, anything in front of a jury to make the jury dislike the victim. Don't care. Now, what is the evidence you're talking about that he was the aggressor?

[Mark Astor]

Well, apparently they had a very volatile relationship. There's evidence out there that this was a combative relationship. That, that he.

[Dr. Jan Gorniak]

That.

[Mark Astor]

And I get you.

[Nancy Grace]

That's the. I'm looking at it right now. She's beating the hell out of him.

[Mark Astor]

Well, here's the deal now, so we don't know what happened before they got in the elevator. Had he, had he been the aggressive aggressor? Was she defending herself in that elevator? I think you could make a logical argument from that. So you can't just judge what you see in the video in a vacuum. You simply can't do that. So I disagree with that analysis.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm sorry, you just gave me a pain in my back. I thought I was having a heart attack. Listen, Aster, your good looks and your Brit accent might work on a lot of people, it's not working on me. Because I asked you what was your evidence that he was the aggressor. And you said you can't believe everything you see. I mean, come on, please. I've got it on video. She's beating him. That's what all the friends, that's what all the family say. For years. She beat him and he took it. She finally stabbed him dead. And you have not given me one shred of evidence that he was the aggressor.

[Mark Astor]

Nancy. There is body cam footage where she's interviewed there. By the way, she was clearly in custody when she was interviewed at the scene. She wasn't Mirandized. That's number one. Number two, she tells, she tells the officer that he had grabbed her, that he had choked her. There's your self defense case right there on the body cam footage. So again, I disagree with your analysis. And again, we can't judge evidence in a vacuum, but there's certainly evidence to support that this is a good self defense case.

[Nancy Grace]

Good, good. You believe her or my lying eyes? You know what? Straight out to you, Dave.

[Mark Astor]

That's why we have trouble investigative reporters, to see who we believe.

[Nancy Grace]

Yeah, but we didn't in this case because the prosecutor did not have the. Let's see. I don't know how well versed you are in Latin, but the prosecutor didn't have the balls to take it to trial. Just like adding coburger. You know, you may be laughing at my vernacular, but this is a miscarriage of justice. This is wrong. And there is no way in h e double that the victim's family is fine with her walking free when their son is stabbed dead.

[Mark Astor]

Okay, Nancy, I agree with you. It's a lot. It's a light sentence. It's a light sentence. But to say the prosecutors didn't try this case because they were lazy, I have to respectfully disagree with that.

[Nancy Grace]

Having said they didn't have any balls, I think that's more accurate.

[Mark Astor]

Okay, cool. You can use that. I prefer your term works, but I get what you're saying. But, but just to judge the prosecutors in a vacuum, I don't think we can do that.

[Nancy Grace]

It's not a vacuum. They've. I mean, I've. Help me, Dave Mac, please help me explain to Mark Astor the years of abuse this victim took. And it's very rare. And Dr. Jamie Lacey is going to back me up on that. I think that the male is the victim of verbal and physical abuse by a domestic partner. It's very rare, but nobody says he ever attacked her. Help me out, Dave Mack.

[Robert Crispin]

You're.

[Dave Mack]

You're dead on accurate, Nancy. That friends that knew the relationship always said that it was Courtney Clenney that was the aggressor. And you know, the. When she would drink, that's when the ugly, violent verbal abuse would come out. And everything that we have seen, when you watch the body cam footage from police, you see Courtney Clinton trying to play the cops trying to play like she's the victim, always the victim. Meanwhile, Christian obviously is dead on the floor. You know, when you look at the, the actual elevator footage, you can see that Christian is trying to not hurt her. He's trying to protect himself and to get her to stop. This is something that we've talked about so many times with this case that no matter what, Christian was obviously or appears to obviously be the victim on a regular basis. There were so many interactions, Nancy. The one that comes to me that I look at is after, okay, after the murder, when Courtney Clinton fled Miami and went back home to Texas to stay with her folks. Eight weeks after the murder, she's walking her dogs in the neighborhood and comes across an 18 year old boy. And she's aggressive towards this boy. So much so sexually aggressive that he felt uncomfortable about walking with her and talked, got his dad to get involved. They had to call police, Nancy, because she was so aggressive. It's just her mentality. And so Christian Obumseli is dead because he was a victim of abuse.

[Andrea Gunning]

This is Andrea Gunning from Betrayal Weekly. This is a stunning story based on the hit true crime podcast Betrayal. He was a tall, handsome police officer, the man of her dreams. Caroline knew right away he was the man she would spend her life with. But then she got a text that changed everything. The man she loved was having affair after affair with so many different women in his cop car while on duty. I implore you to watch Betrayal Dirty Secrets now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney.

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[Nancy Grace]

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[Andrea Gunning]

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[Nancy Grace]

Check Lyft Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. That's the close up you were showing me of her and her kimono and her push up bra please. Because it focused on her neck. Nothing. No bruises, no scratches, no anything. Oh look at that. The fight was so horrible that she managed to keep on her false eyelashes. Wow, that was some prize fight right there. Yeah, you know. To Dr. Janie Lacey joining us, licensed psychotherapist, CEO of Life Counseling Solutions. She is the star and host of let's Talk about it with Janie Lacey. She is author of how to Heal From a toxic relationship. Dr. Janey in all the years I worked the hotline as a volunteer at the Battered Women's center, so often the women would say it was always women never A man, they would say, oh, but he was drunk. It's not really his fault. That's bs. That is a crutch. That is a lie. That is a screen that to mask the truth that the victim is getting beaten viciously. Why did he stay in it? Now he's dead.

[Dr. Janie Lacey]

I think, Nancy, first, what we're hearing. It is rare that men report abuse, but I see it all the time where also men are the victims of abuse. But I think what tends to happen is that they have this perception that they are strong. They're a man. I should take it. Or if I just do what she wants, then perhaps it'll go away. I hear all of the negotiations inside themselves, why they stay in these relationships. And then there's also they truly love and they truly enjoy parts of the relationship. So they kind of wait for her. Her reaction to pass so we can just get back to normal. So, like in any toxic relationships, and in particular, when I look at this toxic relationship, I look at this plea deal, it's just legal resolution. It doesn't tell me that this truly was a toxic relationship, because it was. What we see is this shift from her moving from this defensive position to some form of accountability for her legal resolution. But when we look at toxic relationship cycles, they always, especially, and I do say always, the one who sometimes is the abuser has this position that they position themselves entirely as a victim. And when, in this case, when the reality of a trial. Right. It would undeniably we have the evidence coming about. There has to be some level for her own survival to admit to some level of accountability. In this case, manslaughter. But this is her having to admit to some level of reacting to this abuse, which we know men stay in these relationships because of many reasons. And one of those reasons is because they love and they enjoy parts of it, but they also believe I am the man. Nobody will believe me or which to me, indicates why he was filming and getting some of these evidences. Nancy,

[Nancy Grace]

I want you guys to hear, before I go to our renowned medical examiner, formerly of Clark County. That's Vegas. Never. Lack of business. Dr. Jan Gorniak. I want you to hear an audio that was privately recorded by the dead victim, Christian, before his death. He didn't think anyone would believe that he. The man was being abused and beaten and threatened, and he secretly recorded one of the defendant's tirades at Robert Crispin. Please listen to this,

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Cece.

[Robert Crispin]

Don't touch me. What is going on? Like, what are you. Are you gonna get this mad at me when I'm apologizing to you?

[Dr. Jan Gorniak]

No, Christian.

[Robert Crispin]

But you're thinking I'm doing it.

[Nancy Grace]

Drop your attitude. Drop your high pitch.

[Dr. Jan Gorniak]

Okay?

[Robert Crispin]

I'm not doing it on purpose.

[Nancy Grace]

You trust Zahara.

[Dr. Janie Lacey]

You.

[Nancy Grace]

The right thing to do is to tell me.

[Robert Crispin]

Yes. And I am so sorry. So shut up and let me. You dumb.

[Nancy Grace]

Give me my phone.

[Robert Crispin]

You have your phone.

[Nancy Grace]

I don't have it anymore.

[Sabrina Puglisi]

Find it and

[Nancy Grace]

find it charge.

[Dr. Janie Lacey]

I'm sorry.

[Robert Crispin]

I don't care.

[Nancy Grace]

Find it in charge.

[Robert Crispin]

Hey, just stop.

[Nancy Grace]

Don't talk to me. Yeah, man.

[Robert Crispin]

Oh man. Cause I'm telling you I'm sorry. I don't know where your phone is. Find xp. Will you help me find it? I was so why find it? Why are you screaming, man? Not man.

[Nancy Grace]

Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Yeah. Come on, man.

[Robert Crispin]

I need to find it cuz I have to go Mira again. So to go out. No, you said she buys.

[Nancy Grace]

Just find my.

[Robert Crispin]

I don't have your phone.

[Mark Astor]

Just.

[Matt Altmix / Ryan Reynolds (Ads)]

Can you just.

[Robert Crispin]

Cece, can you just please shut up? Please shut up.

[Nancy Grace]

You want to go without talk.

[Robert Crispin]

I didn't go to go. Yes, you did. You always on your. Courtney. I was.

[Nancy Grace]

She literally told me about it.

[Robert Crispin]

Now what are you.

[Nancy Grace]

All day, every day, every night, 24, 7, 365. Robert Crispin joining us. You know what, Crispin? Sometimes I think we've seen it all. I think I'll never be shocked again. But just imagine living in that home. This was all because she couldn't find her cell phone. And he couldn't find it quickly enough for her. The screaming, the cursing, the threatening over finding the cell phone every day, getting abused like that. And now he's dead. He's dead in his 20s. My little babies are about to turn 19. He's just a few years older than that. And he's gone, Crispin, forever. Imagine what his mother is going through. And now the killer is walking free.

[Robert Crispin]

I can't imagine the pain of losing my child, let alone any parent losing their child. But that video is a great snapshot of who Courtney Kenney is. That's exactly who she is. And ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I'd like to publish this video as exhibit number one.

[Nancy Grace]

You mentioned that everybody in that luxury high rise behind you wanted this case over and done with. What's it to them?

[Dr. Janie Lacey]

What?

[Nancy Grace]

This is not about them. Why did you even say that?

[Robert Crispin]

It is not about them, but it's bringing a lot of unwanted attention to their homes, to their building stuff that they just wanted to go away. They want her to go to jail. No one has said anything nice about her. Not one person has said anything nice about her. But I think they're a little tired of all the news cameras out front, all the reporters and all these people that have spent millions and millions of dollars on property here. As you know, these things have stigmas. I'm not going to buy in that building. There was a murder in there. I'm going to go next door and spend $15 million. This building has sprawling views of Biscayne Bay and Miami Beach. This really put a stain on them. When we lost a great guy. This guy was murdered.

[Nancy Grace]

Straight out to special guest joining us, Dr. Jan Gorniak out of the Florida jurisdiction, former medical examiner, Clark County's medical examiner's office. That's Vegas board certified forensic pathologist and founder of World Peace Forensic Consulting. Dr. Gorniak, thank you for being with us tonight. Please explain the nature of the victim's mortal wounds.

[Dr. Jan Gorniak]

I'm going to try. First of all, I don't believe the knife throwing incident. And I think when you were just showing pictures, I saw a picture of a knife on the ground with amongst the blood. When someone is stabbed, the hardest part to stab through is the skin. So there had to be a lot of forces to break through to the skin. I don't believe that you're saying if it was thrown three inches, she was close up, got into his, his chest. So there's a lot of arteries there, but it could have been up in his neck. I wasn't able to find exactly where, but I heard one of your here the reporters to his chest. So obviously your heart is in that area, your lungs, a lot of major vessels, the aorta. So that's why he, he bled out. It looks more like he bled out really quickly because he's unresponsive in that spot where he was stabbed. More likely than not, it looks like he was stabbed in the neck where he got a lot of blood and he would bleed out. He would exanguinate and go unresponsive really quickly because if it was a chest wound, he would have been able to walk around. I'm not sure where if all the blood is concentrated in one place or is there evidence that he was able to walk around? But yes, getting through the skin, if it's in the chest, through the ribs, that knife had to be really sharp. But three inches into the chest can definitely cause a fatal wound. Do not think it was thrown? Absolutely not. Was it grown?

[Nancy Grace]

Guys, you are hearing, renowned medical examiner Dr. Jan Gorniak speaking. Larry Seward joining us, investigative reporter, CBS News, Miami. You can find him on Insta at L. Seward, CBS Larry, again, thank you for being with us tonight. Explain to me the plea deal and how quickly she's going to be able to walk free.

[Amazon Health AI / Ads]

So let's back up to the original charge, which was second degree murder. Obviously, there's the potential of her spending the bulk of her life that's left inside of a prison cell. Now, four years of this case ongoing led to negotiations which she's pled guilty to one count of manslaughter with a deadly weapon. The minimum state minimums for that is 15 years. The deal that she has says that she can serve six years and then five years probation. But she's also getting credit for time served, which Courtney Clinney was arrested in Hawaii in August of 2022. That will also count toward her time served. She's been in jail in Miami Dade county since she was extradited from Hawaii. So that's four years. So minimum, she's looking at getting out of jail or prison, I should say getting out of state prison in two years. But with the way good behavior guidelines are in the state of Florida, 10 days for every month of good behavior, she could potentially walk out of state prison in 18 months. Now, after she serves that time, she's looking at five years of probation and any violation of that probation. And there are many stipulations. She could be looking at up to 30 years in prison. Nancy.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, here's a reality check on a second degree murder charge in this jurisdiction punishable up to life behind bars on second degree murder as it stands now, and I doubt there's any way this plea can be retracted. She's walking in 18 months or less. Does the name Diddy Sean Combs, aka Puff, aka Puffy, aka Puff Daddy, aka Love, ring a bell? Because he's going to walk in a couple of months. And it seems like every time I look at his release date, it's been moved closer and closer. It's ever changing. How is that happening? Tell that to his crime victims, to Robert Crispin. What is she too pretty for jail? I remember when Deb Lefebvre said that and sadly, it was true.

[Robert Crispin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nancy Grace]

No, the judge could have rejected this.

[Robert Crispin]

Listen, I'm surprised that the judge didn't reject this, especially with, you know, Kathy Fernandez Rundle running this operation. I'm surprised she didn't take this to trial. She's always a victim advocate. I Don't know what happened here, Nancy. I honestly don't. But she's actually going to have a problem in prison. Prison is no fun being in a prison, in a jail cell, in a population where there's really bad people. It is not good for someone like her.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm going to tell you what. To put him up. There's really bad people in jail. She is a really bad people. Have you lost who killed him and is wearing his skin? What happened to him? She is a really bad people. She stabbed her boyfriend dead after years of abuse. What it must be. She's gonna be with bad people. What is wrong with you, man?

[Robert Crispin]

Not at all. Just because she's a high profile murder suspect, she's gonna get her butt kicked in prison. It's just gonna happen. Just like Diddy's having problems because he was a high profile person. These people,

[Nancy Grace]

I guarantee you this woman, Courtney Clenney, she'll go toe to toe with anybody behind bars. You don't see what she did to a grown man. He's dead. Dead, dead, Crispin. And you're worried she might get slapped behind bars? I don't think so. That's not happening.

[Robert Crispin]

I'm not.

[Nancy Grace]

She'll beat him up.

[Robert Crispin]

I'm not worried about that.

[Nancy Grace]

You seem worried. What? You think she's cute? You think she's pretty? Go look at his dead body. Then tell me how pretty she is. Stop showing that.

[Robert Crispin]

Put up Crispin, she's got problems coming when she gets in jail.

[Nancy Grace]

What's wrong with that?

[Robert Crispin]

Oh, I don't find any problem with that. You know, in jail they call that street justice.

[Nancy Grace]

You seem like you're a little sad about it. She's gonna be behind bars with some bad people. Nancy. She is a bad people. I'm gonna let you think about that for a few moments.

[Robert Crispin]

Oh, I get it.

[Nancy Grace]

Wow. You know what? I'm a jd, not a dds. I don't know how to pull teeth. But you know what? Give me a set of pliers because I think I can pull Crispin's tooth, the front tooth out and maybe get the truth out of him. She is a bad people now. I agree, Nancy. That took some doing. Joining us now, the two defense attorneys, the called miracle workers that somehow got a killer a sweetheart deal and managed to convince a judge to go along with it. I don't know what prosecutor thought this was a good idea. Frank Pietro. Joining us, defense attorney for Courtney Clenney at the Prieto law firm. And Sabrina Puglisi, also defense attorney for Clinty Straight to you, Sabrina. She will walk, most likely in less than 18 months while he is in a casket forever. How did you do it?

[Sabrina Puglisi]

Well, it's interesting you say that, Nancy, because it seems like the public wants to say maybe she got this because of the color of her skin or. Or because of money. But as a former prosecutor, you know, they don't give these kinds of deals to just anybody. It's because of the evidence in this case, and it seems like that's overlooked all the time as to the evidence.

[Nancy Grace]

What evidence?

[Sabrina Puglisi]

There's plenty of evidence to show, Sabrina.

[Nancy Grace]

What evidence supports a cheap plea?

[Sabrina Puglisi]

Yeah, text messages. He was abusive. She was a battered spouse for many years. There were text messages to show he battered her. There are medical records. We have the premier expert in battered spouse. So what evidence is there on the other side? That's what I'm asking. Because, you know, the Miami Dade State Attorney's office, they are not afraid to try cases. They try cases all the time. And so this is not a deal, sweetheart. Deal, as you say. It's. It's because the evidence supported this deal.

[Nancy Grace]

May I ask you a question? You said they were married. Is that true?

[Sabrina Puglisi]

No, they weren't married. I use the word battered spouse. Just as that's the terminology that first started. It's really now, I think battered partner syndrome. Yes. Is the proper terminology.

[Nancy Grace]

Right, right. It's battered spouse was back in law school, his battered partner. So you have a text. That's interesting. Do you have any. Well, you say a text. I don't know who sent that text. And it has not been evidentiarily proven in court who sent that text or what. It really shows that would have happened at trial if you had tried to introduce it to Frank Pietro joining us, defense attorney also for Courtney Clinton. Obviously they had to tag team to pull this one out of their pocket. Frank, does it concern you at all that with her history of violence, she'll do this again as soon as she walks free?

[Robert Crispin]

Absolutely not. Nancy. This young lady, as my co counsel, Ms. Puilisi said, has suffered abuse at the hands of her abuser. She's started the path to recovery from her ptsd, so she's learning how to deal with it.

[Nancy Grace]

And her ptsd? Her ptsd? Did you say she's got ptsd?

[Robert Crispin]

Yes, she does. I mean, clearly this was a traumatic incident. You pricing the videos of her cradling Christian her arms and while he's bleeding? Yeah, that. That's something that. That would scar and traumatize anyone. Operator down,

[Dr. Jan Gorniak]

Ma'.

[Dr. Janie Lacey]

Am.

[Robert Crispin]

Listen to me.

[Nancy Grace]

You need to stop speing on the line and give me the address.

[Robert Crispin]

3101. Got a guy, can't get my arm. 3101. I can't feel my arm. My boyfriend is dying. Ma', am, what is the address? Please, God, please come see my. Shoulder.

[Dr. Jan Gorniak]

What do you mean?

[Nancy Grace]

He has a stab wound on his shoulder, ma'.

[Dave Mack]

Am.

[Robert Crispin]

Bleeding from his shoulder.

[Nancy Grace]

How old is he?

[Robert Crispin]

Is he awake?

[Nancy Grace]

Hello?

[Robert Crispin]

Hello? Okay, let's move, let's move. Sit down, sit down, sit down, sit down.

[Dr. Janie Lacey]

Where do I go?

[Robert Crispin]

Where can I go? Inside, Sit down, sit down and just. No, no, no.

[Nancy Grace]

They won't bite, they won't bite.

[Robert Crispin]

Just bring them out here, okay? I'm asking you as a person, can you please bring my other dog out to me? Your dog is right there. Forget about the dog now. Don't worry. Forget about the dog. But I'm covered in blood. At least he looks. I was holding him the whole time. I know, I know. We're trying to see what's going on.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm covered in blood. It makes me look bad.

[Dave Mack]

Frank.

[Nancy Grace]

Pietro. He's dead. And she's worried about how she looks. And she also keeps apologizing. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. To her dead boyfriend. Why is she worried about how she looks?

[Robert Crispin]

Well, clearly the police have her detained. She's handcuffed. She's not understanding why they're handcuffing her. Because she acted in self defense. So being covered in blood obviously has a bad optic to the police. But she's just trying to explain why she is covered in blood.

[Dr. Jan Gorniak]

Blood.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm so glad you said that. Robert Crispin joining us outside the murder scene. Bad optics. At that moment, she is worried about bad optics, says her defense attorney. And Pietro and Puglisi are not amateurs. They've tried a lot of cases. And they just said. Yeah. She knew it was bad optics for her to be covered in his blood with him lying dead. Yeah, it does look bad, because it is bad, Crispin.

[Robert Crispin]

Yeah, well, what you're seeing there, Nancy, on those body cams, these statements, I don't think helped her at all. I understand whether this.

[Nancy Grace]

Yeah, and the jury will never see them because the state entered a cheap plea. She also says to Dr. Jan Gorniak, quote, he was like, squirting blood. Her words, not mine, Dr. Gorniak. And that would be because of the insult to his artery. She sliced his artery. And as the heart continues to pop, it squirts the blood out of the body.

[Dr. Jan Gorniak]

You're absolutely correct. And as I was listening to the 911 call, said he was stabbed in the shoulder. That solidifies that. I think he was stabbed in the neck. And you're right, he's squirting. That means that's arterial blood. So every time his heart beats, blood is going to be squirting, squirting out, and not sure what was going on before. If they were at a high energy state, running around, whatever. But when you're in that state, your heart rate is higher. So therefore you're going to be losing blood a lot quicker. So that makes more sense. But that's still up close and personal injury. If they're saying to your shoulder or really good shot.

[Nancy Grace]

That's important. Up close and personal. Dr. Gorniak, because her story is she threw the knife at him from standing beside the fridge several feet away. That was a lie. But here, listen to what she says happened. Okay, hey, boys, boys, just sit down.

[Sabrina Puglisi]

Sit down.

[Amazon Health AI / Ads]

So what happened?

[Nancy Grace]

I don't even.

[Robert Crispin]

I'm like, covered heads. I love him. Like, more than like. Okay, so what happened today that we're here? So I broken up with him about a week ago. Then today again, like, we were smart, getting along kind of, but, like, I just, like. Like I said, we're breaking up again. So you guys trying to get back together? Yes, absolutely. Because I. I like, I want to marry him.

[Dr. Jan Gorniak]

I love him.

[Robert Crispin]

I think that he. I think that he could change.

[Nancy Grace]

I could change whatever. And he just.

[Robert Crispin]

I. I said, he started doing some that he wouldn't do to me again. I said, you know what? We're over. And I walked away and he pinned me to the wall. He pinned you against the wall? He pinned me to the wall and then pinned me to the ground.

[Nancy Grace]

It was choking.

[Robert Crispin]

And so I got up and I

[Nancy Grace]

called my mom, and I was talking to her,

[Robert Crispin]

and then he started charging at me. And I, like, I just had it in my hand. I was like, trying to threaten, like, don't come. What do you have in your knife? Why do you have in your hand a knife? Because I was scared. I'm asking, what do you have in your hand? A knife.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, Larry Seaward joining me, investigative reporter, CBS News, Miami. Did I just hear her say in the midst of all of her terror, she did not leave the apartment? She got on the phone with her mother and had a conversation.

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[Andrea Gunning]

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[Nancy Grace]

I can't stop scratching my downtown. Mm, yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here to talk about my downtown. Some things you'd rather type than say out loud.

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[Robert Crispin]

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[Nancy Grace]

$45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12 month plan required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy. See Terms Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To Frank Pietro and Sabrina Pugalesi joining us. I've had a lot of murder cases where I, of course, was representing the victim and the victim's family, where victims have foreshadowed unwittingly their own death. For instance, in one domestic, I don't know why we still call it domestic homicide, the wife, Patricia, was so afraid that she told her best friend where the key was, her emergency key, where she hid it in her pocketbook, about where all her jewelry was, where all her important papers were in case her husband murdered her. And he did. I've had it over and over again. So is that correct, Sabrina, that before his death, he texted his mother and said, loving her, he would end up dead?

[Sabrina Puglisi]

Was a text to the mother? I do know what you're referring to, but I don't think it was a text to the mother. But it's easy, Nancy, to show these snapshots that you have. What was was a text or a letter that he wrote that, yes, he does say, is love going to kill me? But it also is taken out of context because to me, when I read it, taking all the evidence around that time frame, it is an emotional plea because he feels emotionally like the relationship is going to kill him. And not literally, but emotionally. And so I think it's easy for you to take these snapshots. You've shown. These are moments. But this is not all the evidence. Mr. Handfield has not portrayed the evidence correctly. The timing of phone calls, that is not correct. The evidence, meaning security reports and the phone records support differently. So it's easy to make these assumptions, except the evidence, when taken completely, you can see this was justified. And that's why we got the deal. We did.

[Nancy Grace]

Are you familiar with our expert, Dr. Jan Gorniak? She was the medical examiner in Vegas. And she says that there is no way, no way that your client could have thrown the knife and it went that deeply, severing an artery in the victim's body. That is a lie.

[Sabrina Puglisi]

Well, our defense me be lying. Why would she had. Did she have the opportunity to inspect the body? Our expert me Says differently. Experts can easily say different things. I mean, one side is.

[Nancy Grace]

Yes, I know that. You could just answer one thing. How deep was the wound? Ms. Puglisi, how deep was the wound in the victim's body?

[Sabrina Puglisi]

I believe it was 8cm.

[Nancy Grace]

And 8cm is.

[Sabrina Puglisi]

And what I can tell you is we have expert knife throwers. I myself have thrown a knife into the carcass of a pig or three inches.

[Nancy Grace]

So did you just say you were going to bring on expert knife throwers.

[Sabrina Puglisi]

We were. Yes, absolutely they were. If you look at our was your

[Nancy Grace]

client was an expert knife thrower. Because otherwise that would be completely irrelevant. You would need help, trained person to throw a knife and have it go 3 inches into someone's body.

[Sabrina Puglisi]

Have you ever thrown a knife, Nancy? Because I have and I'm not an expert. And it did go into the knife car, into the pig carcass. 3 inches. So it can be done. There are experts that say it can be done. It is not likely, it is not probable, but it is possible. And you and I both know that. All you need is one small possibility. That is reasonable doubt.

[Nancy Grace]

The standard of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt, not a possibility, Not a whimsical, not my reasonable doubt, but beyond a reasonable doubt to say it's possible. It's possible, Ms. Puglisi, the little green man from Mars came down and stabbed him dead. It's entirely possible. Is it probable? No, it's not. And you yourself just said it's possible.

[Sabrina Puglisi]

Not my burden of proof. It's the state's burden of proof.

[Nancy Grace]

You are so right about that. You're right. And I should be tell reminding everyone that Sabrina Puglisi and Frank Pietro have done what I consider to be practically the impossible. They got a cheap plea for this woman that's not easy to do. It takes a lot of work, a lot of convincing. But they did it. Am I happy? No. Am I congratulating them? No. It's kind of like patting the devil on the back saying good job. But in their world, this is a major win. They got a woman facing life behind bars, a get out of jail free card. It ain't over yet. And we wait as justice unfolds. And tonight, we remember an American hero. Trooper Nicholas Clark, New York State Police. Just 29, shot in the line of duty, too young to have a wife and a family. Leaving behind grieving parents Teresa and Anthony. American Trooper Nicholas Clark. Thank you to our guests, especially our special guests, Frank Pietro and Sabrina Puglisi. Another feather in their cap. And thank you to you for being with us tonight. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight, but God willing, I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then, good night. You want to advance your education, but not on a traditional path. At Rasmussen University, you'll find flexible and engaging online experiences, tuition savings options if you qualify, acceptance, exceptional student support and so much more. You may also qualify for a brand new laptop when you enroll in select online or on campus programs. Enroll in a fully online program or at one of their 20 campuses across six states. Start when you're ready and get the support you need. Visit Rasmussen. Edu.

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[Robert Crispin]

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[Nancy Grace]

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