← Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
PROLIFIC INFANT KILLER NICU NURSE WHINES BEHIND BARS, BEING MOCKED BY INMATES OVER HER NEW NETFLIX DOCUMENTARY
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This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. This February, Aldous Hodge returns as Alex Cross, your favorite detective on television for season two of the hit show Cross, now streaming exclusively on Prime Video. Fresh off his capture of the infamous serial killer, the fanboy Cross teams up with the FBI to hunt down a vigilante serial killer targeting corrupt billionaires. As the case unfolds, Cross navigates a moral crossroads where the lines between justice and vengeance are blurred. Catch season two of Cross, with a new episode dropping weekly, now streaming only on Prime Video. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Well, it's Saturday night and boy, do I have something special for you. Convicted in seven murders of infants, one of the most prolific infant killers in the world, now has her own documentary. Now, that's special, right? One of the most prolific child killers that ever lived. Found guilty of murdering seven infants as a neonatal nurse. So why, why does Lucy Letby get her own documentary? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Lucy Letby and her crime so horrible it sparked insane media interest. All the while she's stating, I feel like I have only ever done my very best for those babies. She did that while crying during a police interview. Seven infants, five boys, two girls, lost their lives to Lucy Letby. And those are the ones we know of. Yet. There is a documentary about Lucy Letby. This is what really happened. Take a listen to our friend Rita Chabrakobarty.
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B
They thought their son was in safe hands with Nurse Letby. But a short time later, they were told he was dangerously ill and they rushed back to find doctors trying to save him.
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We were taken in and we were told to talk to him and hold his hand. And then the conversation with the consultant and she said, you know, we're going to stop. It's not helping. We want. We want him to die in your arms. And more from Rita Chakrabarti.
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Mum was taking milk to them when she heard one of her sons crying loudly.
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He had blood around his mouth. And Lucy was there but faffing about, not really, not doing anything. Lucy said, don't worry, the registrar was coming and she told me to go back to the ward.
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The baby's mum left him in this intensive care area and went to call her husband.
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A
The crying, I've never heard anything like it since. It was screaming. It was screaming. And I was like, what? What's the matter with them?
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Legally, we can't identify the families in this case, but their stories are distressing.
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Even the babies don't have Names. This is the mom and dad of babies E and F, from our friends at BBC. I'm just trying to get my head around what I'm hearing. Hearing your child screaming and not understanding what was wrong, you know? Alexis Tereschuk joining me, Investigative Reporter with crimeonline.com Alexis, you and I both went through a lot to give birth, right?
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C
And you were by my side the whole time.
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A
That's right. Don't make me start crying because now you have this beautiful boy. That's amazing. I'm thinking back to these. When we were in neonatal nicu, neonatal intensive care, while the children were. And I was in intensive care. But I was just thinking about when I would sit with them all day long until I was told I had to leave. Leaving them there and hearing them cry. It was just. There's something about. It never bothered me this way before I had the children. But now, even now, 15 years later, when I hear a baby scream, it just. It just turns me inside out. Did that happen to you? And I hear a baby scream. The impulse to run to the baby. I never had that before. I mean, I felt bad for the child. I was wondering what was wrong. But once you have a child, is it something instinctive? Is it physical? What is that?
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C
And even it is, it's a difference. When you hear a cry of I'm hungry, I have a wet diaper. But when a child is in pain, you feel it so much more. I have since having my son. And I know with you and how much you spent all of your time with them because they were so tiny and so little when they were born.
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A
You're right, Alexis, Therese Chuck, Karen Stark joining us, a renowned psychologist in Manhattan, tv, radio, trauma expert consultant. And you can find her@karenstark.com that's Karen with a C. See if you're trying to find her. Karen, is it physical? Because I never had that reaction before. I mean, there were times in the district attorney's office when a child was a victim, I would cry secretly, not in front of the jury about what happened to the child, but when you hear a baby screaming now. And for me, it didn't matter if it was a wet diapee or they were hungry. When I heard that scream, it literally would send chills all over me. And I would have to just run to find out what was wrong and try to fix it.
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D
It's a hormone that exists between mothers and babies. And there are stories, and perhaps you can relate to this, where a mother gets up in the middle of the night. And as soon as she opens her eyes, the baby starts to cry. And it's as though the baby had communicated that. And that's the hormone that you have when you attach to a child.
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A
I cannot imagine why I still have it 15 years on. But that said, I'm just thinking about these parents that are told there's something wrong with the baby and the baby is screaming and they leave the baby. They're told to leave the baby with the nurse and the baby dies. Not just one, not just two, but then another and another and another. Take a listen to our friends at Channel 4.
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E
Their twin boys, known as babies L and M, were just a day old. They both survived, but it took almost 30 minutes to restart Baby M's heart.
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Experts say the crash was likely caused
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by air being injected into his bloodstream. His brother was poisoned with insulin, though their parents weren't told that for two years.
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We didn't know anything even afterwards until the police came knocking.
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Air being injected into the bloodstream. Now, I could understand one mistake. But when one twin has air being injected into their bloodstream and the other twin is poisoned with insulin, that is no mistake for two babies, twins, to be injected with potentially lethal substances. Joining me right now, two renowned experts, Kat Thornton and our friend Dr. Kendall Crowns. Dr. Kendall Crowns Chief Medical examiner, Tarrant County. That's Fort Worth. Lecturer, University of Texas and Texas Christian University Medical School. Kat Thornton. She's got so many initials by her name. Bsn, rn. I know what that one means. Emt. I know what that one means. Neonatal nursing expert, registered nurse, forensic nurse expert with Godoy Medical Forensics. Kat, thank you so much for being with us. Kat, I'm just remembering all the weeks, actually months, that John, David and Lucy. Lucy the longest were in neonatal intensive care unit. And that was 15 years ago. And do you know, Kat, I am still in touch with the nurses, some of them that took care of the twins. They. I remember one day I was in ICU at the other end of the hospital. They were in nicu and I pretty sure I put on a pair of tights before I took off. I still had on the gown that's open in the back. Yes, I did definitely put on tights before I made my way off all through the circuitous route of the hospital to get to nicu and I was attached to one of the. What do you say, Cat? A drip bag on a roller like a clothes hanger. Is that really tall? Yeah.
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And I IV pump.
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That. That. Yes. Listen, they didn't Teach any of that in law school all the way over there and ultimately found out that I had set off the alarms by going through the wrong door leaving icu. Okay. So I had ultimately had a trail of police trying to find out how the alarm went off. But those neonatal nurses were amazing, incredible. And I really Believe, no offense, Dr. KendallKrowns, that I owe the twins lives to the neonatal nurses at Northside Hospital in Atlanta. I had been going to Sinai in New York, but came home to visit my parents on a weekend and wouldn't, you know, emergency C section. And they, I trusted them when I couldn't be there. It's a huge burden for a neonatal nurse.
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G
It is a burden and a huge responsibility and also a privilege to be able to care for these children at their most vulnerable states. And these families in their most vulnerable states, many, many of them have gone through all kinds of toil and trouble just trying to get pregnant and then to deliver early or to have complications during delivery. It's just heart wrenching for these families to not be able to go through a natural birth process and take your child home with you. But just as you said, Nancy, to leave them in the care of others who you really don't know. But you have to trust them. And the NICU nurses are a very special, special breed. The physicians, the nurses, all those that care for those bab. So you had obviously a very good experience with the staff that cared for your twins.
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I really did. And you know, Dr. Kendall crowns. I do remember that these parents were told by a consultant that they should leave, but I felt that I would be. Lucy was in a lot worse shape than John David was, although they were both in really bad shape. Lucy only weighed two pounds, Dr. Kendall crowns. And I remember they thought she was going to be blind. And there was a procedure where they actually had to put a needle into her eye. And the doctor and my husband said, do you want to leave? Because they obviously thought I couldn't take it. I didn't think I could take it either, but I didn't think I could leave Lucy there to face that without her mother, even though she really didn't know me yet. It's so emotional. Doctor, just have you had that experience during your rotation or when you deal with child victims? It's just gut wrenching for the parents, I think, more than anything.
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H
Well, I think it's unfortunate when a child dies. And I think as a parent myself, it's hard to see when a life that has potential and so much hope Associated with it is kind of tragically snuffed out at an early age. To me, kid cases are the worst cases, especially in child abuse where, you know, someone else could have raised that child, loved that child, adopted them and taken care of them. And in situations where any, any child is murdered.
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It's just horrible the toll it takes on parents. And they second guess every single thing, every move they made. Would it have changed the outcome? Would my baby, my twins, my triplets be alive today? Take a listen our friends at BBC on the unit.
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There were typically up to three deaths a year, but they had that number in the month of June alone. And the pattern continued with babies dying or coming close to death.
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No one suspected any foul play. After several unexpected and near deaths in just over half a year, a second review was ordered with inspectors issuing concerns about staffing levels. That summer, hospital bosses described reaching a tipping point after the deaths of her siblings, Baby O and P. O and P. Hold on.
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A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P Q17 babies. Crime stories with nancy grace. Lucy Letby found guilty of killing seven infants, five boys, two girls in her care in the neonatal unit of Chester Hospital. During the trial, her co workers testified they witnessed unusual behavior from a former nurse. She got way too interested in even planning the funerals of the babies. As we go to air, we learn that Lucy Letby is on suicide watch right now behind bars after she was mocked by her prison mates over the Netflix documentary about her case. Yes, jailed baby nurse Lucy Letby is being monitored around the clock after she was mocked, made fun of over this documentary. And my only question is that made her suicidal that people were mocking her, not the fact that she killed at least seven infants in her career. This is what we know happened to those babies, I guess in the NICU neonatal intensive care unit. The children are already at such a high risk. Like I said, Lucy, my little Lucy was £2. And we knew it was a long shot. But Northside and the NICU nurses and doctors saved her and John David's lives. So when you have deaths, I guess that's expected. Not happy, but expected in the nicu. Would you agree with that, Kat?
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G
Well, we never like to say it's expected, but some of these children are in such severe physiological. Oh, gosh, that's not right. Some of these premature babies are so sick, their little organs are not developed enough to be functioning outside the womb yet. And we are basically assisting them by artificial means. So we do see death in the nicu, we see a lot of children who have. Who have issues with their lungs, with their heart, with their vision, kind of what you said. So any instance where something happens that is unexpected, we're going to watch and try and see what happened, what we can do to fix that situation, what medications we can assist them with and try to help them just to continue to grow as if they were inside the mother's womb.
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I've never heard it put like that. Fascinating to me. So I guess to you, Dr. Kendall, crowns, in a hospital setting, you expect, you don't want it, but you know, a likely outcome with very ill children, very premature children, they could die. And I doubt pretty seriously that anyone suspects foul play under those conditions. How would you find out, Say a baby dies, an infant, a newborn, a twin. How would you find out that someone had injected an air, and I wanted to say an air bubble, but how do you find out? How do you figure out that air has been injected into a baby and killed it? And how does it kill the baby?
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H
So injection of air in a hospital setting, you have to have a idea that someone may be up to something to catch it. Sometimes the physicians or the nurses are suspicious when a child or even adult dies unexpectedly. And there's no reason. The problem is you can get away with it for a period of time because hospital deaths aren't necessarily brought to a medical examiner's office and they're not necessarily autopsied. So usually it's a pattern where they see this a number of times and then they start getting suspicious and then autopsies are done. So at autopsy, how you spot an air embolus is if there's a suspicion of it, when you do the X ray, you can spot air, an air embolus.
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What is an embolus?
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H
First of all, an embolus is a large clot, basically. So an embolus of air is a clot of air in the cardiovascular system. On X ray, you can spot it. It's kind of like a black area in the heart, usually in the right ventricle is where we'll see it. So at autopsy, when you're doing the autopsy, you actually open the pericardial sac, which is a sac around the heart, you fill it with water, and then you poke the right ventricle and bubbles will come out, air bubbles. And when you see those, you know you're dealing with an air embolus. Again, it's easily missed at autopsy unless you have a suspicious suspicion for it. So you have to have the X rays and with the X rays, then you do the proper autopsy techniques, catch it. So air embolism is one of those hard ones to spot at autopsy, trying
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to take in everything you're saying. And I know it's by rote for you because you've done so many autopsies, thousands of. But for me to think of a newborn baby lying on one of those cold autopsy tables being sliced open, and you're filling up the pericardium sac, which goes around the heart and trying to figure out was air injected into this baby. It's very upsetting for us regular people, Dr. Kendall. Crowns. But I thank God for you and other doctors across the country like you, because from what I can tell, this may be the single most prolific child killer in the world. One baby after the next, after the next, after the next dies. What is the common denominator? One thing. Lucy Letby. Take a listen to Dr. John Gibbs, who worked with Lucy Letby on ITV.
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There was nothing about her behavior or her attitude that worried me at all. The problem with Lucy Letby was that she was consistently associated with an increasing number of unusual collapses and deaths that were happening on the unit.
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That's where the worry was. And more from Dr. Stephen Breary.
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Lucy Letby was there. She was sitting next to me. I spoke to her and said how tired and upset she must be after two days of this and hoped that she was going to have a restful weekend. And she turned to me and said, no, I'm back on shift tomorrow. The other staff were very traumatized by all of this. We were crumbling before your eyes almost. And she was quite happy and confident to come into work.
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Okay. Greg Algren is joining me, international lawyer with Diaz Ruiz. They practice all over the United States and beyond. Greg Algren. Yes. She was there when all of these babies were found dead, when they were dying, when they were screaming with blood on their mouth, as you heard the one father describe. But that is entirely. And yes, I've proven a case on circumstantial evidence alone, but you've got to have more. You got to have more than just, well, she was there whenever the babies would die. She never seemed tired. She couldn't wait to get back to the ward and work around more babies. That's not enough to prove a case, Greg.
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But I think there's a. I think there's a certain pattern in practice that starts to emerge and raises the question of lack of supervision, apart from the criminal liability. I mean, there's the civil issue, there's the Lack of supervision and I mean, perhaps even the concept of corporate manslaughter, the failure to adequately participate in the controls that are necessary to ensure that things are being done the right way,
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you know, all that is absolutely correct. I don't think that's any consolation to these parents, one after the next after the next who suffered the loss of their child. But Greg Algren, of course, is completely correct. Robert Crispin joining me, high profile private investigator, former federal task force Officer for the U.S. department of justice with the DEA in the Miami Field division, former homicide and crimes on children investigator. And you can find him@crispin investigations.com Robert, thank you for being with us. If you were handed this, let me just say Rubik's Cube, one baby after the next is dying on this ward. Lucy Letby is there. Every time one of these babies dies and you hear about the baby screaming, they didn't just fall off to sleep with too much Benadryl, which is bad enough in itself. They were screaming, what would you do? You got to have more than that. Now I find air injected into a baby to be damning, but I know I need more. What would you do to prove this case, Robert?
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Well, sadly, this, this case, because of who we were dealing with, because the access to the kids and because we spoke about, unfortunately, death, very final. You're expected that it's okay if someone dies in the hospital. That's where they're supposed to die.
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A
Oh, you just gave me a thought. It reminds me of arson cases, which it took me years to develop an expertise improving arson because first you have to prove a crime even happened. And then once you prove a crime happened, you got to figure out who did it and really why. Like this. You expect babies in a high risk neonatal unit. Some of them, God help them, are going to die. So a lot of people don't think it's anything unusual when a baby dies in the neonatal unit.
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I
That's why she got away with it for so long. For so long. She got away with it. By the time it got to law enforcement is when this thing accelerated until the administrators got together and they started
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H
to compare the facts and compare the
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charts and compare the employees and the behavior. And then it went to law enforcement after it was first denied to go to law enforcement and the employees were told, if you do anything about it, there will be repercussions.
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A
Oh, you're making my stomach hurt right now. Is this true? Alexis Toreschuk with us crimeonline.com investigative reporter that all these deaths were Flagged and employees were begging for help and they were told, don't you dare say a word. Did that happen?
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C
It did. It was not only. It was the nurses and the doctors who were they all. First time. It was a tragedy. But immediately the way that she reacted was a red flag.
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She was.
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How does she react?
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C
Well, she wanted to come back to work immediately.
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She.
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C
She said, well, you know, I just. I have to be there immediately. I don't need any time to grieve. It's the best thing to do. While everybody else was devastated and crushed by this and thought she was, but each time a child died, each time a baby died and she was there, she wanted to come back to work and insisted on. And as you said, remember many of them twins or triplets, she wanted to work with the other sibling immediately. And people. And that really raised a red flag. So the doctors and the nurses really started a file and tried and complained about her and said, this is really very, very suspicious.
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Okay, somebody's going to have their. Their pants suit off.
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To add insult to injury, they had to write her an apology.
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Whoa, okay. What. Who's this? Is this Crispin or Algren?
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That's Crispin.
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What did you just say?
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It had gotten to administration. Administration shut down the people that were bringing this forward, and we're not going to do anything further, and there'll be consequences. And then Lucy filed a complaint and the doctors had to do a written apology to Lucy. I'm sorry. We're all stressed out. We're all under a lot of pressure. That's how this all started. And then another death. That's when administrators caught on. That's when they decided to call law enforcement. And then that's when this case got some traction and it took off. And it's where it is today.
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G
And Nancy, I think this is. Kat, I think another most interesting fact about her behavior was she reached out to these parents, multiple different parents of the deceased children, and searched for them on social media and watched their response to their grief and was almost relishing their grief. And she sent them notes. She said she was apologetic that she couldn't make it to the funerals. It's really very distressing to look at someone with such narcissistic behavior and attention seeking behavior. It's just horrifying.
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A
Oh, man. Oh, man. She is going straight to hell. Did you know that also after the deaths of these tiny babies, she would help the parents prepare the baby for the funeral?
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G
Yes, it did mention in the evidence that she helped to prepare memento boxes and gather footprints and handprints and locks of hair, which is a very common practice in the NICU after a child passes away, because maybe a photograph prior to the death. And these mementos are the only thing that these parents have to remember the short life that they had with their child.
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A
Who was jumping in? Was that you, Carol Stark?
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D
Yes, it was. I wanted to say that in addition to her own cases, they would also find her involved in cases that were not hers, where she was told not to be there. And she would get involved with these supposedly babies that were so sick and dying, which of course, she was causing.
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So she. It wasn't just her patients. She would seek out other babies and
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she relished taking care of the babies once they died. She bathed them and found clothes for them. She became very, very involved in the aftercare as well.
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A
Okay, I'm sure you've got a diagnostic name for that. Jackie is waving a note to me that one of the babies was actually buried in a gown provided by Lucy. Let be guys, take a listen. Our friends at BBC.
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B
Lucy Letby was eventually moved to a clerical role. The doctors kept trying to get managers to investigate the suspicious deaths and her connection to them, even though consultants here repeatedly made loud warnings to senior management. They say they were ignored. Even after Lucy Letby came off duty on the neonatal unit, executives tried to draw a line under the case. Dr. Stephen Breary led the team of seven consultants on the unit who shared joint concerns.
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It's something that nobody really wants to consider, you know, that a member of staff might be harming the babies under your care.
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B
Things came to a head when two out of three healthy triplets died within 24 hours of each other.
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A
Oh, God. Two out of three triplets? Karen Stark, you're the shrink. We're just mere mortals. What is. There's got to be a name for the hatred of babies. The desire to kill infants.
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D
Well, usually when that happens, it's filicide. It's a parent who's killing the baby. Unfortunately, in this case, you're talking about a cold, and I mean cold blooded killer. The definition of a psychopath.
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A
She.
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D
She was sadistic. She enjoyed. And I know this is hard for people to take in, but she actually enjoyed watching not just the baby suffer, but the parents suffer.
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A
Now there's pedophobia, which is a fear of babies, but the hatred of babies, the desire to kill babies. Not anybody else, just helpless infants.
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D
But that's part of it, Nancy, is that they're helpless and they're innocent. And that's extremely appealing to killers as we know, and all the natural instincts that you would assume somebody would have when it comes to babies. A killer, a cold blooded killer like this. Just the opposite. This is she's in her environment. She relishes the fact that this is happening.
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A
Guys, take a listen. Our friends over at ap, Lucy Letby was entrusted to protect some of the most vulnerable babies. Little did those working alongside her know that there was a murderer in their midst. She did her utmost to conceal her crimes by varying the ways in which she repeatedly harmed babies in her care. In her hands, innocuous substances like air, milk or medication like insulin would become lethal. She perverted her learning and weaponized her craft to inflict harm, grief and death. Crime stories with nancy grace. Fallout continues over the 90 minute documentary on Netflix about Lucy Let be she's being checked on an hourly basis. Even more staff has been told to engage her in quote, meaningful conversation and talk to her for at least 10 minutes at a time throughout the day to gauge her mood and state of mind. Why? Because all the inmates are buzzing about a Netflix show and mocking Lucy Letby about the show. In the documentary, Lucy Letby's never before seen letters sent from prison boasting about her posh ensuite sale to a, quote, special friend. Now she is the butt of ridicule behind bars. In these previously unseen letters, Lucy Letby, convicted killer, whines about her own heartbreaking situation. Her word, not mine. Heartbreaking. What about the moms and dads whose infants were murdered by you, Lucy Letby? And you're whining about the fact that you don't like being behind bars. She also whined about, quote, missing her pets behind bars. She brags, I have my own room toilet. I shower each day and go outside for a walk. Really? And you're still whining? We also learn Letby has a new job behind bars. Bragging about that too. That she got a quote, top new job behind bars leaving the other inmates jealous. Yes, she has been promoted from cleaner to dishing out books and DVDs to the other inmates in the jail library. Being the jail librarian is a very sought after role and it gives her influence among the other inmates, but that has not stopped them from mocking her about the Netflix documentary about her. What does being the jail librarian entail? Going around on a trolley delivering box sets and books to various cells? She may be bragging about her cushy jail cell and enjoying her new role as prison librarian, but I know who you really are, Lucy Letby. You're a baby killer. In her hands, innocuous substances like air, milk or medication would become lethal. Then there's Baby E. The mom arrived to give the baby breast milk, and she found the baby with blood around his mouth before he died from a fatal bleed, which we now believe to be caused by Letby interfering with a nasogastric tube. The mom actually walked in on her with the baby. Guys, take a listen to this.
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F
It was in June when Lucy Letby murdered the first newborn, who we can only call Baby A by injecting air into his bloodstream. The following month, after the deaths of Baby C and Baby D, the head of the neonatal ward ordered an internal review and found that Letby had been the only nurse on shift for each death. By October, Baby E and Baby I had also died. And consultants warned senior management that Let Be was present each time.
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A
That was Sean Fletcher at Good Morning Britain. Baby E. Baby I also died. And senior management was warned. Lucy Letby was present each time. Greg Algren. Why in the world would a hospital try to suppress the knowledge that babies were dying on Lucy Letby's watch, not by accident, not by normal or natural causes, but by injections of air or insulin or interference with a nasogastrel tissue tube? Why would they suppress that and actually warn the doctors and nurses of repercussions if they continued to investigate and force the doctors, as Robert Crispin pointed out, to apologize to Lucy Letby, the killer?
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H
Right. It's disgusting, it's inconceivable. And I think we can only conclude that this institution was trying to protect itself. There's no excuse for it. And there have to be other investigations and hopefully prosecutions that come out of this, because the organizational behavior that was exhibited here is completely inexcusable. I mean, it can't be allowed to repeat itself in the future.
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A
Take us now to Janet Moore. To lose a baby is a heartbreaking experience that no parent should ever have to go through. But to lose a baby or to have a baby harmed in these particular circumstances is unimaginable. Over the past seven to eight years, we've had to go through a long, torturous and emotional journey from losing our precious newborns and grieving their loss. Seeing our children who survived, some of whom are still suffering today, to being told years later that their death or collapse might be suspicious. Nothing can prepare you for that news. I'm just trying to get my head around it. To you, Alexis Toreschuk, joining us from Crime Online the murders of all these babies occurred over the space of one year. Why did it take eight years to bring her to justice?
- [39:07]
C
Concern raised by doctors and nurses. And they had. They. The hospital started an investigation into it. And because she was so forthcoming, she was a nurse. They just never suspected that this would happen, that nothing was found. However, when they decided that they did, they did a survey. They did. And they saw that she was the only nurse on duty in the room with these children. For every single death and every single attempted, you know, where there were children that were assaulted by her that did not die, but that were treated in the same way. And then they realized that something happened. She then filed a complaint against the hospital and said, you are targeting me. I am not doing anything wrong. And because it appears that they were afraid to be, they were afraid that she would sue them more than just file a complaint. They backed down on this and it took years for them to finally contact the police. And many of the doctors there have said that the hospital dragged their feet on this and they should have contacted the police immediately.
- [40:12]
A
I guess they didn't want the bad public relations that so many babies were dying, number one, and potentially at the hands of a nurse. Listen to Justice James gossip.
- [40:23]
F
This was a cruel, calculated and cynical campaign of child murder involving the smallest and most vulnerable of children. Knowing that your actions were causing significant physical suffering and would cause untold mental suffering, you created situations so that collapses or causes of collapses would not be obvious or associated with you. You removed and retained confidential records of events relating to your crimes and checked up on bereaved parents. There was a deep malevolence bordering on sadism in your actions.
- [41:10]
A
Karen Stark. I can't figure out if she delighted more in actually killing the babies or watching them die. The act of killing them, standing by, watching them die, or watching the parents grieve and actually enjoying the funeral preparations. It's. I can't figure out what her motivation is.
- [41:34]
D
There doesn't need to be. That's. Everyone's trying to understand her motivation. And when we're talking about a psychopath, this is a person who has no feelings and the only motivation is for her to be able to see their distress. That really turns her on. It's hard to conceive of, but it's true. I mean, she had no. Look how manipulative she was, which really goes along with being a psychopath. And she turned the tables and she said, you're harassing me, so that she could take the attention away from. She's doing something wrong. And put the attention on the fact that she's a victim.
- [42:16]
A
Kat Thornton joining us, neonatal nursing expert. What precautions are in place in hospitals to make sure nurses are not killing infants, infants that of course, have no voice for themselves?
- [42:31]
G
Well, Nancy, I think this is an excellent example of a situation where the surrounding support staff did not feel comfortable and they were also chastised about bringing forth concerns. And I will say that I think most institutions do an excellent job of providing ongoing annual training. The compliance departments and regulatory departments develop really good education and affirmations to each employee at annual training. That is their responsibility.
- [43:07]
A
So continue training. Alexis Therese Chuck joining us. So many of these parents probably thought that the potential deaths of their children were to be expected. And when a child passed away in the neonatal unit, they thought, well, she or he just didn't make it. What happened at sentencing? Is it true Lucy Letby would not even come to sentencing where the parents were all there?
- [43:37]
C
That's 100% true. She did not show up for her sentencing. She was not there when these parents gave their victim impact statements where they talked about how they completely trusted her and that they knew something was wrong because their child was screaming in the unit and they went in and the parents and it was there and she was the only one there. She was too much of a coward. She did not show up. And her parents, she's an only child who was doted on her whole life. She was everything to her parents. When she graduated from college, they sent a picture of it to the local newspaper. They adored her. They gave her everything. They were so proud of her. They had been there every single day at the trial, but they also did not show up for the sentencing. So nobody was there to hear what these parents had to say after she had murdered their baby.
- [44:29]
A
So chilling that after one baby died, photos have emerged of Lucy Letby with this huge smile on her face at a fundraiser. The baby had just died and she went to a fundraiser for neonatal patients and had this huge smile. She really had a great time at the party after just killing one of the babies. Seven babies dead at her hands that we know of. Attempts on the lives of six other tiny infants. Lucy Letby continues to devise methods scheming to get out of that conviction. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend.
- [45:33]
E
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