Rex Heuerman Finds Out His Fate

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: Rex Heuerman Finds Out His Fate

Date: June 18, 2026

---

Overview of the Episode

This episode addresses the dramatic sentencing of Rex Heuermann—known as the "Gilgo Beach Serial Killer" or "Long Island Serial Killer"—for the murder of eight women. Nancy Grace, along with experts, reporters, and legal analysts, delves into the details of the case, the courtroom events during Heuermann's plea and sentencing, the investigation’s challenges, and the broader ramifications for victims' families, law enforcement, and the public. The discussion further explores the controversy surrounding Heuermann’s ex-wife’s reality TV deal and the horrifying depth of Heuermann’s crimes, including the evidence found and the psychological hauntings left in his wake.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Guilty Plea and Sentencing

• Rex Heuermann, after years of denials, pleads guilty to murdering seven women and confessing to an eighth murder (04:25). He receives three consecutive life sentences without the possibility of parole (04:51, 63:54).
  • Quote (Nancy Grace, 03:57):
    “In the last hours, sentencing goes down in a court of law. Rex Heuermann, the Long Island serial killer, is sentenced. Heuermann confessing to killing eight women. That much we know.”
• There is no death penalty in New York, leading to controversy and frustration among panelists (05:01, 35:20, 36:48).
  • Quote (Nancy Grace, 36:20):
    “Why don’t they have the death penalty? ...What America wants is justice. But is that justice? Him smirking in court?”

Courtroom Behavior and Victim Impact

• Heuermann’s demeanor: Smirking throughout the proceedings, did not look at the victims’ families, possibly signaling he knows of other, undiscovered victims (08:51, 09:13, 10:06).
  • Quote (Josh Zieman, 09:13):
    "Was he smirking because he was forced to admit what he'd done or because he knew there were other victims out there that he was getting away with?"
• Families’ pain: The show repeatedly returns to the agony and trauma inflicted on the victims’ families, compounded by years of not knowing what happened to their loved ones and now facing the reality of the crimes (20:43, 42:46).
  • Quote (Nancy Grace, 20:43): “Look at them. They begged for their lives. They begged to go back to their children... Instead, they... were stripped, bound, tortured, raped, murdered, and their bodies buried along a lonely stretch of beach.”

The Scope and Horror of the Crimes

• Crime scene details: Victims were often kidnapped, kept alive for days, tortured, and ultimately murdered when Heuermann’s wife was away. Bodies were found buried along desolate stretches of Gilgo Beach (05:16, 10:45, 11:57).
• Meticulous planning: Investigators found a chilling list of instructions and reminders Heuermann kept for his murders, indicating both organization and sadism (48:04, 50:01).
  • Quote (Nancy Grace, 48:04):
    “Don’t hunt too long in one area. Don’t charge for your gas. Check for video cameras... The next time you kidnap your victim, hit the victim harder. You need more sleep before the murders. You need to control the noise and more playtime. In other words, torture.”
• Evidence hoarded: Over 100,000 photos, Palm Pilots, and decades-old news clippings preserved by Heuermann connected him to the crimes and referenced his wife’s absences for kill windows (56:46).
  • Quote (Josh Zieman, 56:46):
    “He hoarded everything, including all these pieces of evidence. He also had, the most shocking thing, newspaper articles, 30 year old newspaper articles in his bedroom..."

Law Enforcement and the Search for More Victims

• Cadaver dog searches: Experts explain the challenges of finding bodies in the vast, desolate stretch of beach, noting searches are ongoing and more remains might be found (12:49, 13:24, 19:17).
  • Quote (Mike Gould, 13:24):
    “Without the bodies, you have a very difficult case to prove. So dogs are considered in court as scientific instruments... But again, this is a big area, Nancy.”
• Ongoing investigation: Authorities believe additional bodies remain undiscovered, with law enforcement vowing continued efforts (05:42).
  • Quote (Suffolk County DA, 05:42):
    "There are still bodies on that beach. There are still bodies in Suffolk County. There's no rest for the weary."

The Wife, Reality TV, and Lawsuit

• Asa Ellerup’s reality show: Controversy erupts over Heuermann's ex-wife Asa Ellerup and daughter Victoria participating in a docuseries and reportedly receiving a million-dollar payout (07:36, 31:35, 33:00, 35:08, 42:04).
  • Quote (Nancy Grace, 31:34): “The family of Rex Heuermann getting a purported $1 million to participate in that special documentary. Blood money. Blood money. How do you think that makes the families of these dead women feel?”
• Families’ outrage and civil lawsuit: The son of a victim files suit against Ellerup and the daughter to stop them from profiting, alleging callous disregard for the victims (42:04).
• Debate over wife’s awareness: Panelists argue whether Asa could truly have been oblivious, given the tortures occurring in their home (38:15, 40:35).
  • Quote (Nancy Grace, 39:17): “You want to tell me, Asa Elric, never noticed anything in the basement where women were stripped, raped, tortured and murdered. No way.”

Psychological Analysis and Serial Killer Duality

• Serial Killer personas: Experts discuss how sociopaths like Heuermann construct dual lives, with Karen Stark arguing that such killers often choose spouses who overlook red flags (37:36, 36:25).
  • Quote (Karen Stark, 37:36):
    “They pick women who they know will ignore red flags, will not pay attention to all the little details that everyone else... would pay attention to... I think that that's an important thing to notice, that this really fits a pattern of what serial killers do.”
• Heuermann becomes a case study: Anticipation (and disgust) at future interviews and documentaries, and concerns that Heuermann will achieve criminal “celebrity status” (21:37, 36:48).
  • Quote (Joe Scott Morgan, 26:10):
    “Yet here he is... Oh, by the way, yeah. The boys from the FBI are going to come down, they're going to sit with him... he is going to hold a level of celebrity.”

Victims Remembered

• Names of victims read aloud: Jessica Taylor, Melissa Bartholomew, Megan Waterman, Maureen Brainerd Barnes, Amberlynn Costello, Valerie Mack, Sandra Castillo, and Karen Vergata (63:54).
• Joe Scott Morgan (44:14) laments that the killer’s name will overshadow the victims’ legacies.
  • Quote (Joe Scott Morgan, 44:14): "There are very few people that can go down the list of Ted Bundy's victims and name them... His name will trump everything else. He'll be mentioned over and over again. And people need to remember this."

Final Courtroom Moments

• The judge denounces Heuermann as a coward and receives cheers from the victims’ families, who chant “Ogre” as he is led away (65:00).
  • Victim Impact:
    The families give emotional statements; Heuermann shows no remorse, simply saying,
    “There are no words I could say... The words I would say have no meaning and I'm going to leave it there.” (65:00)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Heuermann’s Sentencing:
  “He can kill as many people as he wants to and still get life behind bars.” (Nancy Grace, 04:51)

• On Dual Personas:
  “He created these two separate personas... One allowing him to work on the other. He was a hero to his family, theoretically, so that he could kill at night. It was terrifying.” (Josh Zieman, 36:25)

• On the Wife’s Awareness and Complicity:
  “She’s the kind of person who would ignore what she notices, that she’s able to find a way inside of her mind to absolutely put it aside... to keep the life that she has.” (Karen Stark, 39:17)

• On Torture Evidence:
  “He used that to secure these individuals so he could work out these sick fantasies.” (Joe Scott Morgan, 44:14)

• On Lasting Trauma:
  “Just growing up in itself has all sorts of trauma and issues. Pile that on top. I don't know how these people even get out of bed in the morning.” (Nancy Grace, 42:46)

---

Key Timestamps

• 03:34 – Breaking news: Heuermann sentencing
• 04:47 – Guilty plea, life sentences
• 05:42 – DA comments: more bodies likely remain
• 08:51 – Heuermann’s public confession and smirking in court
• 12:49–14:53 – Cadaver dog search challenges, search continues
• 19:17–20:43 – Law enforcement and the beach as a dumping ground
• 24:00–27:52 – Panel discusses the darkness of the terrain, frustration at the plea deal
• 31:35–36:25 – Reality show deal, public outrage, legal and ethical debate
• 40:35–41:20 – Evidence wife may have known; her behavior scrutinized
• 42:04 – Lawsuit by victim's son against the Heuermann family
• 48:04–52:14 – Heuermann’s kill list, torture methods, and evidence
• 56:45 – Investigators find 100,000+ photos in Heuermann’s possession
• 59:51–61:11 – Law enforcement’s emotional toll and reflection on evil
• 63:54 – Victim impact statements, judge denounces Heuermann

---

Conclusion

Nancy Grace and her expert panel paint a portrait of horror, calculation, and devastation in the aftermath of the Gilgo Beach murders. The episode scrutinizes both the institutional failures and the personal aftermath for the victims’ families—while repeatedly raising ethical questions about profiting from tragedy and the possibility of undiscovered victims. The chilling ability of Heuermann to live a double life and evade detection for decades reverberates throughout the discussion, as does the pain that the survivors must now endure as the case closes—with, perhaps, many more secrets yet to come.

---

Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Mazda CX5 Advertiser]

Guaranteed Human introducing the all new Mazda CX5 featuring more connection hey Google, where's the nearest Pilates class safety that has your back? More discovery on the scenic routes, more passion in the details and more control in changing weather. The all new Mazda CX5 more to move every side of you. See it in five films at mazdausa.com fivesides Google is a trademark of Google LLC. Sequences shortened and simulated this July 4th,

[America 250 Announcer]

come celebrate at America's Block Party hosted by America 250. America's Block Party is a can't miss 4th of July concert happening at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum. Experience music, performances from major artists, patriotic tributes and the kickoff to giving 4th, helping to make July 4th the largest day of giving in American history. It's more than just fireworks. Learn more about this landmark [e-mail]

[Nancy Grace]

you

[American Cornhole League Advertiser]

fired up the grill, you strung the lights, you even cleaned the patio furniture. But let's be honest, your cornhole set is an embarrassment this summer. Level up with official American Cornhole League gear. We're talking pro quality boards, bags and everything you need to become the undisputed backyard champion of your entire neighborhood. Or at least beat your brother in law. Shop [e-mail] because summer's too short for bad Cornhole

[Karen and Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

hi, it's Karen and Georgia

[Nancy Grace]

from My favorite Murder.

[My Favorite Murder Hosts]

We cruised around LA in the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and dove into the fascinating life of actress and inventor Hedy Lamarr.

[Nancy Grace]

Want the full story? Take a listen.

[My Favorite Murder Hosts]

She starts dating Howard Hughes and in fact, she helps him design a faster plane. So she finds the fastest bird and the fastest fish and sketches out a drawing of what the two would look like as a plane. And that becomes the plane that we know today. And he calls her a genius. Check out our new episode spotlighting groundbreaking innovators like Hedy and Lamarr and Billie Jean King.

[Karen and Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

Presented by the Hyundai Ioniq 5.

[Nancy Grace]

Goodbye.

[Nancy Grace (Sponsor Segment)]

There's a break in every 26 seconds in the US most security systems alert you after a break in's already started. That's too late. SimpliSafe is changing that. Using advanced AI alerts, SimpliSafe's US based live agents identify threats on your property and help deter them. And here's what I love most about it. No long term contracts. And the setup is so easy. The SimpliSafe system was delivered to our door and in just 30 minutes our

[Nancy Grace]

home is more secure with monitoring and deterrence plans. Starting around a dollar a day, everyone

[Nancy Grace (Sponsor Segment)]

can enjoy the benefits of SimpliSafe. I want you to experience the same

[Nancy Grace]

peace of mind we do.

[Nancy Grace (Sponsor Segment)]

That's why I've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer an exclusive discount to our listeners. Right now you get 50% off your new system by visiting simplisafe.com Nancy I believe in it so much I, I've given it to two of the LOL's little old ladies back in my home church in Macon, Georgia. That's half [e-mail] Nancy There really is no safe like SimpliSafe. Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

[Nancy Grace]

Bombshell tonight. The so called Gilgo beach serial killer, AKA the Long island serial killer Rex Heuerman, is sentenced for a string of grisly murders.

[Nancy Grace (Sponsor Segment)]

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

[Nancy Grace]

I want to thank you for being with us.

[Nancy Grace (Sponsor Segment)]

That's right.

[Nancy Grace]

In the last hours, sentencing goes down in a court of law. Rex Heuerman, the Long island serial killer is, is sentenced. Heuerman confessing to killing eight women. That much we know. We know of at least eight dead bodies, the remains lined up like a row at the cemetery there on Gilgo beach in Long Island.

[Nancy Grace (Sponsor Segment)]

He would drive by those hand dug

[Nancy Grace]

graves every single day. Heuerman, a New York architect, pleads guilty to murdering seven women and the eighth, a 34 year old woman, Karen Vergada. The guilty plea, a stunning reversal for Heuerman who for years denied, tearfully denied being responsible.

[Nancy Grace (Sponsor Segment)]

He's now sentenced to three consecutive terms

[Nancy Grace]

of life in that jurisdiction. There is no death penalty. He can kill as many people as he wants to and still get life behind bars.

[Nancy Grace (Sponsor Segment)]

And we the taxpayers have the joy of feeding him and housing him three hots in a cot every single day

[Nancy Grace]

for the rest of his natural life.

[Nancy Grace (Sponsor Segment)]

And then I can tell you right

[Nancy Grace]

now where he's going there, where he's

[Nancy Grace (Sponsor Segment)]

going afterwards, straight to hell.

[Nancy Grace]

What do we know about the case? Sightings of the victim's phone calls from the victim's train rides by the victims. Victims that left and never came back. Keeping a victim alive for days on end so he could play with him. There are going to be more victims uncovered of the Long island serial killer Rex Heuermann.

[Suffolk County District Attorney]

The calm, serene, almost grandfatherly image that Rex Heumann portrayed since his arrest was a lie and quite frankly, an insult to both law enforcement, but more importantly, the families that had to endure that during every court appearance over the last two and a half years. Today he was exposed for exactly what he is, a sadistic, soulless, murderous monster. This case closes and another one opens. You know, there are still, you know, bodies on that beach. There are still bodies in Suffolk County. There's no rest for the weary. We are going to continue to work with our partners and to try to obtain closure for as many families as we can.

[Nancy Grace]

That the police commissioner and the Suffolk county district attorney speaking unmasked finally in court in lieu of a long trial, a guilty plea. But just as we saw in the Idaho case, the Idaho four for beautiful University of Idaho students murdered, generally speaking, in their sleep by one person, Brian Kohberger. Once again, like in Coburger, we will never really know the facts because there is no trial. Now, unlike Idaho, where the death penalty does exist and Rex Huerman's jurisdiction, you can kill as many people as you want and there is no death penalty. What does this mean for his wife's reality show? That's certainly something to ponder. Straight out to Crime stories, investigative reporter Dave Mack. Dave Mack, a Long island serial killer, the Long island serial killer Rex Heuermann finally snared in court.

[Dave Mack]

What happened once this all hit court with the announcement that he was changing his plea? A lot of people were looking at Asa Ellerup, as you just mentioned, and her reality show. It was a three part series that included interviews with the couple's daughter Victoria. And it looks like now the cameras are going to continue to roll and add additional episodes to the show called the Gilgo Beach Killer House of Secrets. So it looks like that show will continue.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, I'm a little more interested tonight. Dave Mack in the Guilty Please. A sudden change of plea throws the courtroom in an uproar. Rex Heuermann, the admitted Long island serial killer, pleads guilty. In addition to Dave Mack, crime Stories investigative reporter. Joining us also tonight, Josh Zieman, investigative journalist, documentary film director. He's been on the case from the very beginning and he is the director of the Killing season. It's a docu series that helped shed new light on on the Gilgo beach murders. Josh, thank you for being with us. Describe what happened in court.

[Josh Zieman]

Well, Nancy, it was a tense moment for sure. Everybody waiting to see if Rex would actually plead. And he did eight separate times to these women. The question is while he was admitting these crimes, he never once turned back to look at the families. He was smirking. And the question is why was he smirking? Was he smirking because he was forced to admit what he'd done or because he knew there were other victims out there that he was getting away with?

[Nancy Grace]

You know, Josh, that is certainly a scary Thought scaring even me, who have actually prosecuted serial killers before. Smirking. You know, I. I thought he was smirking at the victim's families or at the justice system itself. But you, again, have shed a whole new light on this. Is he smirking because he knows there are other murder victims, other defenseless women that he stripped, tortured and murdered, keeping them alive in his dungeon basement for days and days on end when his wife would be out of town? We think days. And you believe there is a chance that he's smirking because he knows there are other victims out there that haven't been found?

[Josh Zieman]

Absolutely. For sure. It's tragic.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm curious. Why do you say that?

[Josh Zieman]

Because we know the remains that were deposited on Ocean Parkway. There's other folks. There's Asian Doe Carmen Vargas. There's numerous folks out there who. And have you heard the district attorney say it himself? You know, there are other bodies on that beach. And I was there at the press conference. He says sometimes it doesn't matter what I think. It matters what I can prove. And so his next goal is to try and prove it, to try and find these other victims, identify some of them, and again bring Rex to justice for these victims. Tragic.

[Nancy Grace]

Mike Gould joining us, former Nassau county lieutenant, founding member of the NYPD K9 unit. He's led multiple investigations into serial killers, including the Gilgo Beach Killer on Long Island. Also Secret Service 2 presence. Mike, thank you for being with us. That has got to put a shiver down your spine thinking that there are other victims. I mean, the guy was just in court in the last hours pleading guilty to multiple murders. And these women weren't just, bam, you're dead. They were kidnapped. They were stripped, they were bound, they were tortured for days on end while his wife was away in his underground basement dungeon and then ultimately murdered. They went through hell. And I wonder, I wonder, Mike, were they thinking of their children they would never see again? It's excruciating for me. I hate to even imagine what they went through. And now the specter brought up by Josh Zeman, and he's not wrong. Of other women out there somewhere under the sand.

[Mike Gould]

Yeah, Nancy, no doubt about it. Unfortunately, though, Rex Uhrman is not the only serial killer. This is a very unique area. It's. I'm intimately familiar with. I patrolled the area for almost seven years with police dogs. I train police dogs. By daytime, it's a beautiful recreational area. At night, it's a haunting, haunting, dark, desolate area. And its proximity to JFK airport. Rex Uerman literally live 15 minute drive from here, from the locations where the bodies were. So it's a haunting place. There's no doubt there's other bodies out there. Bodies have been being dispersed out there since the 80s during the mafia gang wars. So it's just a question of actually locating. Of course. Frankly, this is a very desolate area. It's. Finding bodies is like finding a needle in a haystack.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, this is something I don't understand. You are a founding member of nypd, and I speak very highly of the nypd. Like every LE law enforcement agency, it's got its problems and its bad apples. But you are the pinnacle nypd. That's who all the other PDS look up to. Right? It's very hard for me to believe that a canine or a team of canines cannot find all the dead bodies. Cadaver dogs. That's what I'm talking about.

[Mike Gould]

100%. This. This is what cracked this case. The Suffolk County Police Department cadaver dog found the first victim. Without that, there would be no DNA evidence. Without that, obviously there was great work by all the DNA invest all of those things, but without the bodies, you have a very difficult case to prove. So dogs are considered in court as scientific instruments to overcome warrantless searches. So there's nothing like a dog to find odorless, microscopic skin cells that are dispersed. But again, this is a big area, Nancy. It's different terrain. There's sand, there's a lot of vegetation. So again, it's not a question of if other bodies will be found. And I think the DA spoke to this. It's just a matter of when. It's nothing new to us New Yorkers that this has been. You go from high, congested, highly trafficked, illuminated areas. You drive 10 minutes, 15 minutes from Kennedy Airport or Rex Huberman's house, and you. It's creepy. It's creepy. I used to park my police car, turn the lights out, and you could see five miles in either direction of any cars coming or going. So guess what? If the police can do that, the bad guys can do the exact same thing. There's no curves, and there's a lot of places to sneak and hide. So, yeah, it's a creepy, haunting place. And it's been that way for many, many.

[Nancy Grace (Sponsor Segment)]

It's really hard to know what will work for weight loss and what's worth your time. Hers now offers access to an affordable range of FDA approved GLP1 medications, including the Wegovy pill and Wegovy pen. With Wegovy at hers, you can lose up to 20% or more of your body weight when you combine it with diet and exercise. If prescribed your medication delivered right to your door, you get a personalized treatment plan and unlimited dosage changes as needed. Ready to reach your goals? Visit forhers.comnancy to get personalized affordable care that gets you that's F O R h e r s.com Nancy Forhers.com Nancy Weight loss by hers is not available in all 50 states. WeGovy is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk as To get started and learn more, including important safety information, WeGovy clinical study information and restrictions, visit forhers.com this

[America 250 Announcer]

July 4th come celebrate at America's Block Party hosted by America 250America's Block Party is a can't miss 4th of July concert happening at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum. Experience music, performances from major artists, patriotic tributes and the kickoff to giving 4th, helping to make July 4th the largest day of giving in American history. It's more than just fireworks. Learn more about this landmark [e-mail] introducing

[Mazda CX5 Advertiser]

the all new Mazda CX5 featuring more connection hey Google, where's the nearest Pilates class safety that has your back? More discovery on the scenic routes, more passion in the details and more control in changing weather. The all new Mazda CX5 more to move every side of you. See it in five films at mazdausa.com fivesides Google is a trademark of Google LLC. Sequences shortened and simulated.

[Cornhole Advertiser]

What if your next favorite hobby came with a built in crew? That's cornhole. Whether you're brand new to the game or just looking for an excuse to get, there's a whole world of players out there ready to welcome you in local leagues, weekend tournaments, backyard throwdowns. It's all happening near you. Find your people at your next [e-mail] events new hobby, new friends. Same you just having a lot more fun.

[Nancy Grace (Sponsor Segment)]

There's a break in every 26 seconds in the US most security systems alert you after a break in has already started. That's too late. SimpliSafe is changing that. Using advanced AI alerts, SimpliSafe's US based live agents identify threats on your property and help deter them. And here's what I love most about it. No long term contracts and the setup is so easy. The SimpliSafe system was delivered to our door and in just 30 minutes our

[Nancy Grace]

home is more secure with monitoring and deterrence plans.

[Nancy Grace (Sponsor Segment)]

Starting around a dollar a day, everyone can enjoy the benefits of SimpliSafe I want you to experience the same peace

[Nancy Grace]

of mind we do.

[Nancy Grace (Sponsor Segment)]

That's why I've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer an exclusive discount to our listeners. Right now, you get 50% off your new system by visiting simplisafe.com Nancy I believe in it so much, I've given it to two of the LOL's little old ladies back in my home church in Macon, Georgia. That's half [e-mail] Nancy There really is no safe like SimpliSafe.

[Nancy Grace]

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Repeat in the last hours, the Long island serial killer, on the loose for decades gets three consecutive life sentences behind bars, meaning arguing there ain't no justice. What happened to these victims? It's very clear from what the Suffolk County District Attorney, Ray Tierney said that he believes there are other bodies on this beach. Why can't the cadaver dogs find them?

[Mike Gould]

They can. They have the capability of doing. First of all, there's not a lot of cadaver dogs because there's not a great need for them. So there's not, not a lot of them, but they certainly could.

[Joe Scott Morgan]

But.

[Mike Gould]

And there's volunteer organizations that train cadaver dogs all over the country. So, yeah, it's, it's just right. They, and they are continuing searching. There was police activity out there the other night. I don't know specifically for what reason. So, yeah, the, the search is on. It's never going to end. And as I said, it's, it's nothing new as you can. As I said, Rex lived 15, 20 minutes. You drive over a bridge and you go from Long island to a desolate. You don't have to drive a body. Upstate New York, you don't have to drive two or three hours like in Goodfellas to dump a body. Upstate New York, when you can literally drive 10 minutes from Queens, Brooklyn and you're in this, it's like an alternate universe out there. No lights, no stores, very little police activity. Police don't patrol there because there's nothing out there in the winter. By day, again, it's a beautiful recreational area, but by night there's nothing out there. And it continues that way today. I was just down there the other night at one o' clock in the morning and it's eerie. There's nothing, there's no rescue workers. I mean, if you call 911, you know, there's a 15 or 20 minute response time minimally because they got to go over bridges, three miles of bridges to get to this barren beach area.

[Nancy Grace]

Control room. I Want to see the victim's faces. And I want to see them close up. Not a distant shot of all of them in a group. I want to see their faces one by one. Look at them. They begged for their lives. They begged to go back to their children. They promised they wouldn't tell. They promised they wouldn't call police. Instead, they. They were stripped, bound, tortured, raped, murdered, and their bodies buried along a lonely stretch of beach. And Rex Heuermann stands in court smirking.

[Karen Stark]

Why?

[Joe Scott Morgan]

Why?

[Nancy Grace]

Because they died. And he lives. Because he's now going to be treated like the teacher's pet by the FBI profile. Yeah, that's right. There are going to be many, many interviews by the FBI profiling him, this piece of crap. And I guarantee you one day he'll take part in his own documentary and there will be money made off of it. It's happening. Put money on it. Just got Morgan joining me. Professor, forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of bestseller Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. He is the star of a hit podcast, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. But for my purposes tonight, he is a death investigator. A very experienced veteran death investigator with over 10,000 death scenes of all sorts under his belt. Over 10,000. I first met him when I was a prosecutor in inner city Atlanta, and he was working for the medical examiner's office at that time. That's a long time ago, Joe Scott. And you haven't let up. You, like me, like Gould, like Zeman, have walked the beach. Do you concur with Gould's comments? Explain.

[Joe Scott Morgan]

Absolutely. And let me tell you why. You know, obviously you can hear my voice. I'm from the south, and, you know, we think about the rural areas down here. You get up into this region and you leave what they refer to as the city. When you leave the city and you're heading out, you know, as Mr. Gould had mentioned just a moment ago, you get there, this is rural. This is what they consider going to the country. And it's not. It's not an unfair description because it does go dark really, really quickly. And here's the thing. My good buddy, Sergeant Joe Jacqueline, he took me to the location where the Gilgo bodies were actually found. And one of the things that I came away from, from that visit to that location was the fact that one side of the roadway, you've got this marshy area. It. It is prohibitive for anybody to go into there. You've got briars and brambles and everything else on that side, and the other side, you can hear the waves crashing and you can't see your hand in front of your face out there at night. Would not surprise me at all if there were more he's saying at the beach. Tyranny is, I'm thinking, probably along the sound side over there where you can quickly deposit the bodies in that location and nobody's going to be any the wiser out there. I think that probably when he did this, he was hoping for something maybe like title changes. They that are going to sweep the bodies out. It's an easy dump to do this. He can pull them out of this avalanche, which, by the way, they had recovered down in South Carolina, and they would just be gone. They would vanish and. Right, right, he was to a certain degree. But that yet there they remained. And to Mr. Ghoul's comment, those dogs are heroes, you know, because they went out there, they took those dogs out there and they actually found these remains. Is it possible they could go out there and find more? Yeah, I think that there can, because this is an extensive area, Nancy. It would take so much manpower to get out there and cover every square inch of this area or every square mile. They haven't even scratched the surface yet. And you have to be purpose.

[Nancy Grace]

Hey, look, look, look, look, look. This is video obtained by abc7. Look at him. I just want the viewers to know what they're seeing. Joe Scott, There he is. And I know exactly where he is. Nobody needs to tell me. He's leaving his office. See, he's got his messenger bag over his shoulder. He's leaving his office, which was a stone's throw to Penn Station, and there he would catch the pen. I've been there many, many times to imagine this demon walking amongst all the ladies, catching trains at Penn Station, going straight out to Long island to commit murders. There he goes. He truly is a demon walking among us. That is what the DA said. Sorry to interrupt. Joe Scott. Keep going. I just wanted the viewers to know what they were seeing.

[Joe Scott Morgan]

Yeah. And. And when I think about who else he could have victimized, how many more are there? I think there's a high probability that there are these bodies. But, Nancy, if we could just return to the victims specifically, just for a second, this allocution, let me just put it to you this way. Is lacking, okay? Because you know what we got out of him and yeah, I mean, it confirms some things. We got him saying strangulation, strangulation, strangulation, strangulation. But there's no more detail there. I'm very disappointed that his feet were not held to the fire. You know, you had mentioned his torture chamber, which I think that this location was. Josh has talked about how these people, these poor victims, were kept alive down there, and yet there's no more detail about what he did. I don't know that people fully appreciate the depth and breadth of how evil he is. He is demonic, in my opinion, with what he did to these poor souls. And we will never know that information. All I have to do, I look back at the template of the way Kansas handled btk and we don't have that here. It's left wanting, to say the very least. And I think the families need to understand that. I think the courts need to understand that. But yet here he is. He's going to get three hots and a cotton. And oh, by the way, yeah. The boys from the FBI are going to come down, they're going to sit with him and they're going to interview him extensively. Right. And he is going to hold a level of celebrity. And that is probably one of the most vomit inducing things I can think of relative to this monster. Nancy.

[Suffolk County District Attorney]

This defendant walked among us play acting as a normal suburban dad, when in reality, all along he was obsessively targeting innocent women for death. He identified these women, lured them into Nassau county, murdered them and left their bodies in Suffolk County. He thought that by killing them, he could silence them forever and get away with murder. But he was wrong. Because it was these victims, these women, who refused to stay silent.

[Nancy Grace]

In the last days, the Long island serial killer in court snared, admitting, yes, he is the Long island serial killer. But he's not the only one on the hot seat tonight. The question everyone keeps asking is how could you not know.

[Mazda CX5 Advertiser]

The Gilgo 4 was one of America's longest serial killer cold cases. After 13 years, this bombshell drops Rex Hurman.

[Suffolk County District Attorney]

Architect, father, husband.

[Sex Worker Witness]

He basically was the person that lived next door.

[Nancy Grace]

He was a monster living a double life. One person saying this, one person saying that. But my memory says this.

[Joe Scott Morgan]

There's so much evidence against you, I don't even believe you. And you're my best friend. Convince me. Give me something. Did you do it? Rex Heuermann insists through his lawyer that he's innocent.

[Mazda CX5 Advertiser]

Is it possible that no family ever suspected that something was off about this guy?

[Nancy Grace]

The most mysterious figure is Rex's wife. The investigator says to me, have you heard about the murders on Gilgo Beach? I've heard of them.

[Joe Scott Morgan]

The idea that the wife didn't know anything is hard to believe.

[Nancy Grace]

Does everybody really believe everything they hear?

[Josh Zieman]

Hello.

[Nancy Grace]

How you doing? I'm doing great now that I've got you on the phone. How ironic that Asa Ellera, the wife of the Long island serial killer says, does everybody believe everything they hear, woman? What were you deaf, dumb and blind? You couldn't see, you couldn't hear, you couldn't. You can speak of the evil happening in your basement often while you're at home. BS on it. BS on you, woman. That's when the Gilgo Beach Killer House of Secrets their official trailer. The family of Rex Hurman getting a purported $1 million to participate in that special documentary. Blood money. Blood money. How do you think that makes the families of these dead women feel? These women kidnapped, tortured, raped, murdered, their bodies sometimes dismembered and disposed of. How do they feel about his wife getting a cool million? It skeeves me out totally. I feel filthy and nauseous all at the same time just watching the trailer. Dave.

[Nancy Grace (Sponsor Segment)]

Mac.

[Dave Mack]

What, Nancy? It's one of those shocking things that just pushes you over the edge that Asa Ellera is the ex wife of Rex Uhman being featured and getting paid for this multi part documentary. Now, Nancy, they're adding, adding new episodes to this, this show, the docuseries is called, you know, the Gilgo Beach Killer House of Secrets. But now that the secrets are out, Asa Ellerup is going to be adding episodes. But Nancy claiming all along the family knew nothing in court. Asa Ellerup is sitting behind Rex and she's seemingly shocked. She's sitting on the edge of the seat, she's gripping the, the seat with her hands. You can see the knuckles. And it's like she's acting like she just can't believe what she's hearing. And there's a suggestion that she didn't believe any of it until he, you know, said he did it. But Nancy, I'm with you. Like many, how can you live in this house? Which by the way, when you look at the home that Rex Heuerman and his family lived in, his home from his childhood, it looks like the monster's home compared to the other houses on the street. It looks like evil exists in this house. She's living there with this man. Well, you know, decades.

[Nancy Grace]

You know what, Dave Mack? If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck. So yes, it is the home of the Munsters, including Asa Ellerup and Rex Heuerman. This from our friends at ABC7. Joining us in addition to Dave Mack, Josh Zieman, investigative journalist and director of the killing season, shining a new light on the Gilgo beach murders. Tell me about Asa Ellerup in court and what, if anything, you know about her documentary. Okay, that's total BS Documentary series, my rear end. What can you tell my. Tell us about her show where she's getting a purported million dollars and now additional episodes. I mean, come on, Josh, don't you know, she wanted this thing to go to trial. So in between every break where the jurors got a diet coke or a cup of coffee, she could go out and cry and carry on with her histrionics for the cameras to add for her reality show. Maybe. Maybe make another million dollars. Josh Zieman.

[Josh Zieman]

Look, I heard that she wasn't getting paid until the final episode aired. You know, it is a shock about it. I agree with you completely. Blood money. I will tell you this. I was in the courtroom, and right when Rex admitted to it, I looked back and I saw his daughter. And his daughter was. She was crushed. I feel bad for the daughter. I don't feel bad for the wife. I feel bad for the daughter, who I think is crushed that this man that she loved is now a terrifying serial killer. That's one thing I will tell you.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, I get that. What I'm asking about is Asa Ellerup and her reality show. I don't care that she may not get all the money till the last episode is. From what I can tell, there may not ever be a last episode in our lifetime because they're still digging up bodies.

[Dave Mack]

It's gross.

[Josh Zieman]

It's great.

[Karen Stark]

Thank you.

[Josh Zieman]

You know what? Look, I'll tell you something. You know what the lawyer said? The lawyer said when asked about it, the lawyer. Her lawyer said, this is what America wants. And that's the real question. Do we want this or not?

[Nancy Grace]

My real question is, why don't they have the death penalty? But that's a whole nother can of worms. Yeah. What America wants is justice. But is that justice? Him smirking in court. And you and I were talking earlier with Joe Scott Morgan about him being treated like the little darling, the teacher's pet, the bear behind the cage getting fed filet mignon. Nobody wants to get that close to him. But they will feed him with a long handle spoon. That said he's going to be studied and questioned. The FBI behavioral analysis unit is going to have a field day with him. He may get to travel to them. I mean, I guarantee you, Josh, that there will be a day like Bryan Kohberger that he will take part in some sort of documentary, and he won't make any money, but there will be a way for money to be funneled to him through his wife, through his family. I don't know how, but he will find a way. He led quite the dual life, did he not?

[Josh Zieman]

Look, this was a guy who created these two separate Personas. That of a father, a commuter working in New York city, and that of a monster. And I think that was really important to them to create these dual personalities, One allowing him to work on the other. He was a hero to his family, theoretically, so that he could kill at night. It was terrifying.

[Nancy Grace]

It's life for Rex heuerman, the Long island serial killer. I firmly believe he's responsible for more

[Nancy Grace (Sponsor Segment)]

than eight dead bodies.

[Nancy Grace]

Will that ever be investigated now that

[Nancy Grace (Sponsor Segment)]

he has life behind bars? This is what we know.

[Nancy Grace]

You know Karen stark joining me, forensic psychologist. She's a renowned TV and radio trauma expert consultant. She's@karen stark.com. that's Karen with a C. You want to tell me Asa ellerup asked the question, the rhetorical question. Do people believe everything they hear? Woman, you're the one that plugged your ears, closed your eyes, and taped over your mouth while your husband was raping and murdering people in your basement.

[America 250 Announcer]

Please.

[Karen Stark]

What I wanted to say about her and about this ex wife and serial killers in general is that they tend to pick women like this. They pick women who they know will ignore red flags, will not pay attention to all the little details that everyone else we know would pay attention to, that basement, the horrors that were there, all the little suspicions. So I think that that's an important thing to notice, that this really fits a pattern of what serial killers do. They want this kind of woman.

[Nancy Grace]

Hey, Karen.

[Karen Stark]

I also.

[Nancy Grace]

Yes, Karen. Karen. You know my husband David, very well. Okay. Occasionally, he will break down and make the bed up in the morning. And we went to go see van Gogh's sunflower exhibit. Go with me on this. I'm going somewhere. And there's a pillow of a sunflower from a van Gogh painting. And unless you really look at it, you can't tell which way is what. But I can tell because the vase is at the bottom, and there's a little tag on the right side of the pillow. When I walk through going back and forth, doing laundry or whatever I'm doing, I notice that the pillow is upside down, and I fix it. Okay? So if I notice the van Gogh pillow is upside down, a, I'm grateful he made the bed up, but B, I fix it. You want to tell Me, Asa Elric, never noticed anything in the basement where women were stripped, raped, tortured and murdered. No way.

[Karen Stark]

I'm not saying she didn't notice it, Nancy. The important thing that I'm pointing out is that she's the kind of person who would ignore what she notices, that she's able to find a way inside of her mind to absolutely put it aside and say in some way without saying to you, but to herself, I'm not going to pay attention to this in order to keep the life that she has. And there's no doubt in my mind, just like you, that there were hints, there were red flags all the time, but this is somebody who would not pay attention to them. And that happens a lot with the kind of women that serial killers and pick. Think Ted Bundy, think Dennis Raider. They pick women who live with them and somehow can't see what everyone else can see. In addition to which, look at their personalities. They are able to switch. It's like turning on a light, right? They could switch between the life that they're living with their family, with the community, and turn into these demonic killers that torture and rape. They're able to do that. People can't do that, but serial killers can.

[Sex Worker Witness]

The fourth witness, she was a sex worker for many years. She said that she would serve as Rex Uhman over 20 times and that he would. He was a serial user of sex workers. He would sometimes have them come two at a time to his house and his wife was home upstairs and in one instance got very angry at one of the sex workers because the wife believed that the worker had stolen an iron from, you know, for ironing clothes and had had it in the car with the driver. So the driver had to get out. Everybody had to search the car. There was no iron. But. But the wife knew about it and knew about obviously what was going on in order for that to happen.

[Joe Scott Morgan]

You know, they're saying specifically that there's evidence of torture that's different than post mortem mutilation. Nancy.

[Nancy Grace]

And it's clear how much he was

[Karen Stark]

obsessed with his own doing what he

[Mazda CX5 Advertiser]

did following the brutal murders.

[Nancy Grace (Sponsor Segment)]

You can never erase anything on your computer.

[Nancy Grace]

Snared in court, Long island serial killer Rex Heuerman pleads guilty to multiple murders. But I'm not done with you yet. Asa Ellerup, the wife. $1 million at least for a reality show and now a lawsuit. Dave Mack, who is suing Ellerup, Benjamin Torres.

[Dave Mack]

He is the 32 year old son of victim Valerie Mack. He is naming Rex Heuerman, obviously But in this million dollar lawsuit, he names ASA Eller up and daughter Victoria Heuermann as defendants. Torres alleges that he was deprived of his mother's care and protection, claims Mack was tortured before her death. And the suit seeks damages and targets the profits allegedly earned by Ellerp and Victoria Heuermann from the Peacock documentary that we've been talking about, saying that Heuerman's life being shown like this is a callous disregard for the victims families.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, I'm just imagining what the victims families have gone through. They went for years thinking maybe their mothers just left them, abandoned them. How would you like to grow up thinking that mom just left. I don't know where she is. She didn't love me enough to stay with me or even stay in touch with me. I grew up without a mother. And then they find out for all those years that they blame their mom, that their mom had been tortured and raped and murdered and their remains buried on a desolate beach. Just growing up in itself has all sorts of trauma and issues. Pile that on top. I don't know how these people even get out of bed in the morning. To Joseph Scott Morgan, explain what was done to these victims. And you know what? When we show their faces, Joe Scott, it's easy to go, oh, there's a Long island serial killer victims. I would have to make jurors. And I didn't like it any more than they did. Make them confront what really happened to these ladies, what they endured before their deaths. What happened to them, Joe Scott.

[Joe Scott Morgan]

The worst possible torture that you can imagine. Can we reflect back just for a second to think about this list? Do you remember the list, Nancy? This kind of assignment of task that he had created? Nancy, there's one part in this list that he had created where it says, by the by, don't forget to remove the hands and the head and to wash the bodies. Just, let's just meditate on that, just for a second of how dark this whole thing is. And if it happened once, it happened multiple times. And that's, that's in death. Lord only knows what had happened in life down in, in that dark, dark space as he is torturing these poor victims. And here's the, here's the real shame. Just like Ted Bundy, we will hear his name over and over and over and over again. Guess what, Guess what. There are very few people that can go down the list of Ted Bundy's victims and name them. I submit to you that the names of these victims will be forgotten and I hate to say that it's very callous, but his name will trump everything else. He'll be mentioned over and over and over again. And people need to remember this. This is why, when I think about the allocution, why he should be compelled to talk about what these are individuals that they had lives, they had families, and the torture that they were subjected to is stuff that you can't even imagine in your wildest dreams. It's stuff that you think about war crimes. People that commit war crimes didn't do stuff like this. You know, one thing that I reflectively think back to in this list, there's that one point where he actually uses the term hardpoint. And that really stuck with me. And the hard point was a location commonly where you secure something like for instance, an eye, an eye hook in the ceiling where you can tie somebody up, you can hang them almost like a piece of beef. Or if you're field dressing a deer and talking about the context of that, you know, what's your purpose for doing that, Rex, you know, why would you need a hardpoint? I know he's an architect. He probably uses that term from the descriptor of building something out. But that's not what he used that for, Nancy. He used that to secure these individuals so he could work out these sick fantasies. And, you know, they're paying the price. They're paying the price to satiate these evil desires that he has. And they are not going to be memorialized. I am truly hoping. I am so glad you brought up this gentleman who is suing because maybe there will be relief in civil court where they will have to talk about this stuff. They will have to talk about what happened in her domicile that she was living in with her kids. This was all going on under her nose in that basement. She inhabited the space. Let's hear it. You know, let the hide come with the hair. And let's hear what they have to say about this and what went on in that house. You're not going to get it in civil court. I mean, in criminal court, because he's not going to be forced to testify at this point. But in the civil court, maybe these families will get some relief and they will be able to see what he had done. And you can parade all of the experts across the stand in civil court, you can get transcripts, you can do depositions, and they're going to talk about it. And I hope, I hope they go forward with it. I hope every family member out there that suffered at his hands Will file suit. And we're going to find out what actually happened down there in that basement.

[Nancy Grace]

And recall, Jo Scott, that ASA Ellerup's hair was actually found on Valerie Mac's body. Which opens up a whole nother can of worms. I'd like to go back to what the control room was showing while you were talking, Jo Scott. I guess in your world. As do I. I make lists all the time so I can't forget what all I have to do. Don't hunt too long in one area because you'll be seen. Don't charge for your gas. Check for video cameras in the pickup area. The next time you kidnap your victim, hit the victim harder. Make it easier to, quote, take them down. A hit to the face or the neck next time. Which means he didn't hit the victim in the right place for him the first time. And she fought back. You need more sleep before the murders. You need to control the noise and more playtime. In other words, torture. Hang drop cloths from the ceiling with push pins, not tape. Because the drop cloths become loose during the rapes and the torture. Use heavy rope for the neck. Light rope broke under the stress of being tightened. Now that son and all the victims families have to think about how tightly ropes were cinched around their mother's neck. Props, toys, wood items. Wood items for what? Destroy books, computer files, anything that touched T1, I guess the victim. Dispose of plastic bags. Remove marks from the torture. What does that mean? Would he cut out portions of their skin? Remove head and hands?

[Joe Scott Morgan]

Yeah, you're talking about excision there, Nancy. Excision is, say, for instance, you have a sharp instrument and you have an insult to the skin. For instance, you have a mark, an abrasion, a contusion, whatever it is. He's talking about excising that area. Actually cutting out.

[Nancy Grace]

Cutting it out. The tattoo from the skin. That's what Joe Scott is saying, and he's right. Now, here are his problems to the panel. DNA, that's a problem. Tire marks. For him, that's a problem. Blood stains, fingerprints, plastic bag. He had cat litter to get rid of the smell. This guy. Look at this. All the supplies. Booties, acid, lie. A police scanner, cutting tools, hair nets, burn can, drain cleaner, tarps, electric clips, Large electric clips. For what? Joe Scott. To put on the victim's bodies and electrocute them as torture. Why would he need electric clips?

[Joe Scott Morgan]

Yeah, to send voltage to their bodies. Because he's. He is experiencing this. This is. He wants to see the pain. He wants to see the resistance. He wants to see their reaction to the terror that he's inflicting upon them. Okay, they know that something horrible is coming, that horror being their end. But what's what's happening before they get to that, to that death, which probably at the end of the day, many of them were probably begging for Nancy at that point. I think the big question is we know these eight victims that he has admitted to. I want to know how many more women were brought down there and subjected to the same torture in this environment. You know, Lord only knows. I you know, one of the things I think about is the DNA recovery down there in that area. I really wonder how many unknown bits of DNA may have been recovered. What was the opportunity? How much had it declined Graded there's so many unanswered weight loss.

[Nancy Grace (Sponsor Segment)]

It's really hard to know what will work for weight loss and what's worth your time. Hers now offers access to an affordable range of FDA approved GLP1 medications, including the Wegovy Pill and Wegovy Pen. With WeGovy at hers, you can lose up to 20% or more of your body weight when you combine it with diet and exercise and if prescribed your medication delivered right to your door, you get a personalized treatment plan and unlimited dosage changes as needed. Ready to reach your goals? Visit forhers.comnancy to get personalized affordable care that gets you that's F O R h e r s.com Nancy Fourhers.com Nancy Weight loss by hers is not available in all 50 states. WeGovy is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk as to get started and learn more including important safety information, WeGovy clinical study information and restrictions, visit forhers.com this

[America 250 Announcer]

July 4th, come celebrate at America's Block Party hosted by America 250. America's Block Party is a can't miss 4th of July concert happening at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum. Experience music, performances from major artists, patriotic tributes and the kickoff to giving 4th, helping to make July 4th the largest day of giving in American history. It's more than just fireworks. Learn more about this landmark [e-mail] introducing

[Mazda CX5 Advertiser]

the all new Mazda CX5 featuring more connection. Hey Google, where's the nearest pilates class safety that has your back? More discovery on the scenic routes, more passion in the details and more control in changing weather. The all new Mazda CX5 more to move every side of you. See it in five films at mazdausa.com fivesides Google is a trademark of Google LLC. Sequences shortened and simulated what if your

[Cornhole Advertiser]

next favorite hobby came with a built in crew, that's cornhole. Whether you're brand new to the game or just looking for an excuse to get outside, there's a whole world of players out there ready to welcome you in. Local leagues, weekend tournaments, backyard throwdowns. It's all happening near you. Find your people at your next [e-mail] events. New hobby, new friends. Same you just having a lot more fun.

[Nancy Grace (Sponsor Segment)]

There's a break in every 26 seconds. In the US most security systems alert you after a break in has already started. That's too late. SimpliSafe is changing that. Using advanced AI alerts, SimpliSafe's US based live agents identify threats on your property and help deter them. And here's what I love most about it. No long term contracts. And the setup is so easy. The SimpliSafe system was delivered to our door and in just 30 minutes our

[Nancy Grace]

home is more secure with monitoring and deterrence plans.

[Nancy Grace (Sponsor Segment)]

Starting around a dollar a day, everyone can enjoy the benefits of SimpliSafe. I want you to experience the same peace of mind we do. That's why I've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer an exclusive discount to our listeners. Right now you get 50% off your new system by visiting simplisafe.com Nancy I believe in it so much I've given it to two of the LOL's little old ladies back in my home church in Macon, Georgia. That's half [e-mail] Nancy There really is no safe like SimpliSafe.

[Nancy Grace]

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Rex Heuermann the Gilgo Beach Killer the Long Island Serial Killer Life behind Bars the Monster is jailed I noticed on the list. To Josh Zieman joining us, Director of the Killing Season, an entire docu series that profiled and shed light on the Long island serial killings. I noticed on his list he wanted more photo film, his words. So obviously he took pictures during the torture or after.

[Mike Gould]

Yeah.

[Josh Zieman]

In fact Nancy, there are believed to be 100,000 pictures that the district attorney has had to go through that the FBI helped to even organize. 100,000. What's amazing is this guy took all these precautions to try not to get caught. Yet still this was all sitting on his computer. This document, this planning document. It's called the HK Planning Document Hunt and Kill Planning Document. It was sitting in this edge of, in this bites of his computer that he could not erase. So despite all these things that he had done, it was still there. And thank God they were able to get this. He was actually. You talk about this house looking so ramshackle. He's a hoarder. He, he hoarded all these old items, old Palm Pilots, there were Palm Pilots that they found that basically gave the dates of what he was doing and going. That actually mentioned his wife being away at times and he would go and find a victim. So he hoarded everything, including all these pieces of evidence. He also had, the most shocking thing is he had newspaper articles, 30 year old newspaper articles in his bedroom, in his office, in his basement of all his crimes. So for some guy who's such an architect and such a great planner, he still kept all these mementos that basically nailed him to a wall for these killings.

[Nancy Grace]

To Mike Gould, special guest, former Nassau county lieutenant, founding member of the NYPD K9 unit. Led multiple investigations into serial killers, including this case. Mike, after all your work, all your time, literally blood, sweat and tears, how does it make you feel that this guy, he might be sentenced consecutively, one after the next after the next, but bottom line, he gets one life sentence for everything he did.

[Mike Gould]

Yeah, Nancy, it's sickening. This is a true animal monster, whatever you want to call it. But what's most disturbing, he could be at your next dinner party. He was an architect. He was very well respected in the community. You know what I think about? As I said, I patrolled this area Parkway from 1992 to 1999 when frankly, these bodies were disposed of. But here's the sad reality. I could have pulled him over. He has a license, registration, and he could have had a body in his trunk. He's a duck hunter, he's a member of the community. I would have probably let him go. There would be no reason for me to suspect because sociopaths are very manipulative. As I said, he could be. He's just somebody's next door neighbor. He could be at. So that's what's the most troubling to me, is you never know the evil that lurks in anybody's mind, frankly. So, yeah, I could have stopped him, checked his license, registration. I could have said, what are you doing down here at 2 o' clock in the morning? You could have said, I'm going duck hunt. I'm doing this. And I would have let him go. And that's the facts of life. And there could have been a mutilated body in his trunk.

[Nancy Grace]

Mike Gould, a special guest tonight. He worked the Long island serial killer case. Mike, what you said is chilling, eerie, and I Know it to be true. I remember one serial killer I prosecuted was a chef, and everybody loved him. He was a serial killer. So what you're saying, it's. And I would not, in front of the jury, I would look over at him and just try to take it in. And it's very hard to evaluate, to understand, to reconcile that that guy sitting there, a gorgeous suit, flanked by lawyers, is a cold blooded killer. And when I think of what Josh Zieman just said about over 100,000 photos of these dead women during torture, during rapes, and their families have to live with that the rest of their lives. I mean, I feel, I don't know, robbed by this guilty plea and I don't know why.

[Mike Gould]

Yeah, so this is a heinous crime. We can't. You can't fathom insanity. How can a normal functioning person. As I said, this could be anyone. Nobody's immune to this. This could be a priest, it could be any member of your community, a family member. They're devious and they live double lives. If you look at all his notes, those are the notes of an architect.

[Dave Mack]

Right?

[Mike Gould]

Architects are very meticulous and they have to learn from their last architectural drawings. So when you look at that, this is a checklist, police scanners. He had probably thought about how, what he was going to say if somebody like myself pulled him over in the middle of night on Ocean Parkway. I'm sure he had a very well reasoned excuse. So this is. This is a sadistic maniac and, and we can scratch our heads from now to eternity trying to figure out what. How a sociopath thinks, how they get some type of enjoyment from mutilating people. It's not on our radar screens. Certainly not on my radar screen. So, yeah, I. Fortunately for me, I've been doing this stuff so long, I have a way of just isolating those thoughts and the emotions. I'm kind of emotionally detached from a lot of this, so a lot of it I frankly don't even listen to as, as I just kind of avoid it, Stick with the facts of the case. But yeah, it's a. He's a monster, period.

[Nancy Grace]

Karen Stark, what advice, what words of consolation or hope can you give the victims families?

[Karen Stark]

Well, the best you could do in a case like this, Nancy, is to actually talk to them, advise them to get help. Help to keep talking it out because it really makes a difference. And it's really hard because they're aware of the torture, just like you. Right. They can't fathom it. And they could put themselves in the place of the victim, which is terrible to imagine what they went through. And here he does this because he gets a charge out of it. That smirk is showing you how much he enjoys this. And there is no doubt in my mind that he pleaded guilty because he didn't want to go over the details. He has very specific details that he wants to keep to himself and maybe share with the FBI so he can get the fame that he's been looking for. But this is a monster. And so what do you say to the family is accepted? Be with each other. Keep talking about it. You must go on with your lives for the sake of the victims.

[American Cornhole League Advertiser]

Confess. Long island serial killer Rex Heuerman finally broke his silence as the family members of his victims gave victim impact statements at the long awaited sentencing of the man who terrorized the Gilglo beach area for decades. In April, he pleaded guilty to killing seven women, Jessica Taylor, Melissa Bartholomew, Megan Waterman, Maureen Brainerd Barnes, Amberlynn Costello, Valerie Mack and Sandra Castillo. He also admitted to killing an eighth woman, Karen Vergata, though he was not formally charged in her death. Heuermann admitted strangling all of the victims to death during a 17 year span beginning in 1993 before the judge sentenced him to three life terms without the possibility of parole and an additional 25 years to life for each of the murders of the seven women. He asked Jurman if he wished to admit address the court, Heuerman said, there are no words I could say I was responsible for what was said in this courtroom today. The words I would say have no meaning and I'm going to leave it there. After questioning if Heuerman was even a man at all, the judge said, you're a coward. Get him out of here. Which brought cheers from victims families who chanted ogre as the killer was led away.

[Nancy Grace]

Nancy Grace Crime Stories Signing off Goodbye friend.

[America 250 Announcer]

This July 4th, come celebrate at America's Block Party hosted by America 250. America's Block Party is a can't miss 4th of July concert happening at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum. Experience music, performances from major artists, patriotic tributes and the kickoff to giving 4th helping to make July 4th the largest day of giving in American history. It's more than just fireworks. Learn more about this landmark [e-mail] introducing

[Mazda CX5 Advertiser]

the all new Mazda CX5 featuring more connection hey Google, where's the nearest Pilates class safety that has your back. More discovery on the scenic routes, more passion in the details and more control in changing weather. The all new Mazda CX5 more to move every side of you. See it in five films at mazdausa.com fivesides Google is a trademark of Google LLC. Sequences shortened and simulated.

[Cornhole Advertiser]

What if your next favorite hobby came with a built in crew? That's cornhole. Whether you're brand new to the game or just looking for an excuse to get out to, there's a whole world of players out there ready to welcome you in. Local leagues, weekend tournaments, backyard throwdowns. It's all happening near you. Find your people at your next [e-mail] events new hobby, new friends. Same you just having a lot more fun.

[Karen and Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. The Trump administration and its backers in Congress are messing around with our health care. In case you haven't heard, they already passed a law defunding Planned Parenthood that blocks Medicaid patients from getting life saving care like cancer screenings, wellness exams, birth control, STI treatment and more. And now these lawmakers want to shut down health centers by defunding Planned Parenthood permanently. Our communities deserve better. So to learn how you can get involved, Text update to 22422 hi, it's Karen and Georgia from My favorite Murder.

[My Favorite Murder Hosts]

We cruised around LA in the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and dove into the fascinating life of actress and inv Hedy Lamarr.

[Nancy Grace]

Want the full story? Take a listen.

[My Favorite Murder Hosts]

She starts dating Howard Hughes and in fact she helps him design a faster plane. So she finds the fastest bird and the fastest fish and sketches out a drawing of what the two would look like as a plane. And that becomes the plane that we know today. And he calls her a genius. Check out our new episode spotlighting groundbreaking innovators like Hedy and Lamar and Billie Jean King.

[Karen and Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

Presented by the Hyundai Ioniq 5.

[Sex Worker Witness]

Goodbye.

[Nancy Grace]

This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.